Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Also no one has yet answered... with the reality settings for Dawn work in Luxus??? PLEASE say yes! 

Since Luxus is more or less a link to LUX render engine I would say that since Palo is working on settings for Reality that Dawn would work in Luxus I would imagine the settings would ve very similar.

While at a slight tangent, might be worth a comment to hopefully clarify...  Luxus and Reality are two totally different ways to access Luxrender in DS.  This means that the presets are not interchangeable between them, so while Dawn will have no problems being used in Luxus, you'd have to work out your own settings, as Paolo's presets will be specific to Reality and will work for both Poser and DS versions of Reality.

Incidentally, once Paolo has his "one-click-sss" up and running, it will be harder to get bad skin settings than good ones in Reality 3 (I think that will be sorted before DS Reality 3 gets released so that it's included in it and I'd imagine Poser Reality 3 would get an update).

 Cool! Thanks for popping in and correcting that incorrect statement of mine. I appeciate your clearing that up!

Forgot to say thankyou to the HiveWire3D team for the Elf ears!!!! Lol.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

"we vs the others", sigh..

Please not forget that there are 3 crowds, not 2.

The Poser users

The Daz users

The Both users

At least among the content providers the third group is by far larger than the other two together.

Nekokami said:

Quote - @paganeagle, with respect, I feel as thoug you keep telling DS users they are not allowed to discuss any cross-platform concerns, which makes me feel like you don't want DS users to participate at all.

Sorry, but this is just wrong.  paganeagle2001 has been nothing but supportive and encouraging about both platforms right from page 1 of this thread.  He has, in fact, asked repeatedly for DS users to participate in the thread.

Agree vintorix, it should be an "us", I just get so fed up now of this Poser v Studio thing.

Take that energy and put it to a better use, such as learning new things that will help others.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Thanks 59Burst.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Okay, I have to pop out to do some RL things, but here's something for people to have a think about and discuss.

We know that the rigging in both systems shouldn't be a problem as tutorials etc. have been preapred.

We can get around material usage by using texture files instead of PoserStudio shaders.

So, what other ways around things can we find?

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - You half to have permision to make displacement maps for a mesh that's not yours.

Do we have permision HiveWire ?

It would help a lot if there eyes where closed and their mouths open in default pose.
Just for morphs to.

Oh FFS RorrKonn....lol. You don't ;). If ya wanna do some, feel free :).

Laurie

I can hardly also expect to make content for dawn.

Quote - > Quote - Also no one has yet answered... with the reality settings for Dawn work in Luxus??? PLEASE say yes! 

 

Since Luxus is more or less a link to LUX render engine I would say that since Palo is working on settings for Reality that Dawn would work in Luxus I would imagine the settings would ve very similar.

I wouldn't say that. The end result would be the same once the luxrender file is written, but the way the two programs implement it may be different and so I wouldn't assume that Paolo's settings for Reality would work in another program that he doesn't develop for ;).

Laurie

Just a reminder that it's not just Poser and DS, but also Maya, Max, Lightwave, modo, C4D, Softimage, solidThinking, Houdini, Carrara, Vue, Blender, Shade, Sketchup, EIAS, Cheetah3D, Bryce, and a bunch more.  I'm sure that Dawn will be used in all of these, to one degree or another.  The either/or attitude is not becoming in the wider scheme of things.  A little perspective goes a long way.

My signature line in another forum:

I like Bryce, DazStudio, Poser and Vue ... in alphabetical order. And I would probably like Carrara too, if I could find the time to become acquainted with it. Peace?

Quote - Just a reminder that it's not just Poser and DS, but also Maya, Max, Lightwave, modo, C4D, Softimage, solidThinking, Houdini, Carrara, Vue, Blender, Shade, Sketchup, EIAS, Cheetah3D, Bryce, and a bunch more.  I'm sure that Dawn will be used in all of these, to one degree or another.  The either/or attitude is not becoming in the wider scheme of things.  A little perspective goes a long way.

That is an awesome acknowledgement of the fact that PS and DS have become robust enough software to lead many into the larger 3D community and industry. We're getting away from the stigma of our corner of the industry being solely seen as the stomping ground of hobbyists and the economically challenged. It's an exciting time to be a part of this!

I'm sure that Dawn will be used in quite a few programs and it wuld be nice just to be called Dawn users, that way it covers all eventualities.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - > Quote - Sorry, but how do you suppose to achieve true photorealism with a few dial spins ? You can go from stylized hottie #1 to stylized fairy to stylized hottie #2, but for those looking for realism things ain't that easy.

I'm gonna risk a shot in the dark and say you haven't tried my morphs for Antonia. Or the ones that come with Michelle.

actually i think i got your antonia morphs at rdna when they were first released but got so frustrated with old versions stuff not working with the final rdna release of antonia i stopped using her and never actually even installed any of the new stuff i purchased for her. gotta try her again and throw away anything that does not work with her final release.

btw lovely dance images.....your figure works perfectly with that dance format. worked photographing dancers (not strippers but belly and modern dance) for several years what now seems like a lifetime ago and gotta say i loved the body in motion and the nergy it brought to my work. miss those days terribly. thanks for sharing them.

"Sorry, but how do you suppose to achieve true photorealism with a few dial spins?"

Realism isn't obtained with morphs but with high-res photographic material. Such as Mec4D do.

Great god.

Quote - btw lovely dance images.....your figure works perfectly with that dance format. worked photographing dancers (not strippers but belly and modern dance) for several years what now seems like a lifetime ago and gotta say i loved the body in motion and the nergy it brought to my work. miss those days terribly. thanks for sharing them.

Thank you! I miss the classes. Gotta look for an affordable place to practice in this new city I'm living in.

Quote - I really dont care about the Poser vs DAZ thing. I warned people about that years ago, and no one listened. "DAZ wont abandon its base!" Uh huh, sure...

It's nice to see someone trying to go cross-platform. Honest, it is. However this genre has been pretty-girl'ed to death, folks. How many of these interchangable ladies do you really need? Sweet Jesus, enough already! By the time folks get through with this, she wont be any different from any of the countless others that preceded her. 

I'm sure she'll be amazing. But she'll also be visually predictable. And no amount of fancy, under-the-hood technology is going to change that. The renders of her will wind up looking like renders of the Vickies and Antonias and Stephanies and Barbies who preceded her.

It's just a shame that something radically new has to be wrapped up in the same tired persona.

You're entitled your opinion of course but i have to disagree. there was a difference between V1 & V2 even though they looked alike as you say. There was the same "Sameness" in the way V2 and V3 were used and yet they rendered and posed completely differently....each iteration getting the figure closer to a more realistic "look" for those who like rendering images of Naked Girls With Big Swords In A Ruin setting. It is called pin-up art or fetish art or erotic art or fantasy art or whatever and has been done for a very long time both with 3D figures or with regulay ink and paint and film. The genre will never die but the figures we use to create these images are nicely getting better as the applications allow us with no mesh creation skills, to use these 3d Barbies as you call them, to realize those fantasy images better.

I use V4 and still use V2 and though they still perform the same function for my images they are completely different looking when seen side by side. Offering a better model even if at first glance she looks like her predessors is a good thing as our work and understanding of the applications used, evolves so should our requirements for the model used. Think of it as a Model Call or Casting Call for a shoot. All the girls come in and try out but only a few make the grade for that particular shoot. SO it is with deciding from all those figures available which will make the grade for the final image. Nothing wrong with that.   :)

Quote - LOL....Speaking of proportions and realism

http://shine.yahoo.com/photos/barbie-gets-another-real-makeover-slideshow/#crsl=%252Fphotos%252Fbarbie-gets-another-real-makeover-slideshow%252F-photo-2651154-170100481.html

Not that I ever liked the old Barbie figure nor do i play with Barbies nor ever have....but this one looks like a truck driver. Scary!   8(

Realistic = with photografic texture like this,

http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/rigged-female-max/669560

Use the image viewer..

Poser and DS have long been a source for inexpensive, ready made, posable content that can be exported to other 3D studios.  It's primarily the animation mechanics, expandibility, and rendering engines that prevent them from standing toe to toe with the "big boys".  But then again, that is what makes them affordable.

A rendering engine that offers true GI, lighting that is not strictly point source (soft edge shadow), with easily defined spectral character is expensive.  But it is what makes for truly realistic renderings that allows for total suspension of visual disbelief.

But Poser and DS have their uses.  First, they're great for toon, tube, and art renders that don't make a pretense of realism, in the same way that painting and sketching create appealing images as representations.  (I'm not saying that realism can't be achieved in Poser and DS, just that it's very difficult and time consuming.)  They're very good for conceptual mockups, quick and dirty sketch art like storyboarding.  Poser started off as a base poser for digital painters, and is still used that way today.  Poser and DS have always had a place in commercial art.  They're not used in Hollywood movie FX, but then people wouldn't be able to afford them if they were.  But they do have a place, always have.

I still use Poser to make humorous greeting cards, create toon posters, and the like.  It's great for that, Firefly lighting is perfectly suited for it.  I also use it to test and export content that strikes my fancy.  I even use it now and then for a serious art render in certain styles.  However, I've just about given up on making content for it. I've even dropped my commercial rigging services for a Poser based movie outfit (but that's another story that doesn't have to do with the software).  It's a pain, very fussy about importing meshes, and a lot of work, more than most other studios for the same process.  But Poser still has a definite place in my toolbox and in my workflow.  But I don't launch it on a daily basis, like I do modo (my true love).  But it doesn't gather much dust either.

So yeah, Poser and DS have their place in the 3D world.  They always have.  For every pro who looks down their nose at them, there's another who uses them.  They aren't at the top of the heap in the industry, but they aren't designed to be there.  They continue to fill their niche well.

And Dawn has the potential to be a big part of that.

Quote - hope we can forge some partnerships... While all the hair I made is generally DS only, I AM making a couple things that SHOULD work in both programs. However I lack Poser, I simply can't afford it since I lost my version of Poser 5 a long time ago.  I would love to use it too but yeah things are what they are. :)

I have a couple things that would need a Poser person to help with, particularly with a shader or two, and maybe help to get me through setting it up for Poser use. Thanks :)

I might be able to help.  I am in the same(ish) boat in that I do poser but haven't used DS at all.  Maybe we could swap items after we each get ours done for our primary platform.  I also dont know anything about cleaning up and packaging the files.

From the poser side of things it is actually quite simple now as far as setting it up as a conformer, provided your base figure doesnt have much for problem areas.  That, of course, is no help if you dont own Poser 2012 or poser 2014 (very much worth the upgrade from a content creation standpoint)

Quote - Realistic = with photografic texture like this,

http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/rigged-female-max/669560

Use the image viewer..

I don't nor have I ever proposed to be a Poser 3d art genius. Never could wrap my brain around much of the tool sets available and texturing and lighting abilities needed to obtaion that "Photo Realistic" look. I was a photographer doing glamour and art nudes and stopped doing it when I discovered Poser. It never really replaced what i captured from a real woman with real lights and a camera but the ideas i used to try and capture with the camera or ith my pen and ink work was still easily available to me. So with Poser i continued and photography and pen and ink were set aside.

My work is NOT PhotoRealistic nor will it ever be because I still have not learned Poser well enough to use those tools available....and will probably never do so. So addressing me for the misuse of words is futile. I guess I meant as close to realistic as I personally can get with my limited skills.

Quote - > Quote - btw lovely dance images.....your figure works perfectly with that dance format. worked photographing dancers (not strippers but belly and modern dance) for several years what now seems like a lifetime ago and gotta say i loved the body in motion and the nergy it brought to my work. miss those days terribly. thanks for sharing them.

Thank you! I miss the classes. Gotta look for an affordable place to practice in this new city I'm living in.

Haha. That's how i got into photographing some dancers. Having a studio space to shoot at the time, I offered studio space to dancers to work in in exchange for help with the rent or modeling trade. I was loving life on the creative level but when I still lost the studio for lack of making sufficient money to pay for it all....well...reality sucks.

The thing is, if you take Dawn, V4 or Antonia and texture with the same care and render as the model from Turbosquid you will get just as good "realism". Daz and Poser should be used for Posing, that is what they are good at that is what they do. The polygons and morphs are good as they are. When you shoot you must aim in the right direction.

But art is not realism.

"just a hint of a hand-created element can activate a surface, instill passion and energy into a medium, and reassure the recipient that human understanding and insight are the foundation for the message.”

Josh Chen

Quote - Realistic = with photografic texture like this,

http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/rigged-female-max/669560

Use the image viewer..

It is well done

..but you'll notice the price... $999

we rarely appreciate the bargain basement prices we pay for the Poser/Studio content compared to content for other 3D platforms

Personally, I prefer art than realism.

Quote - "we vs the others", sigh..

Please not forget that there are 3 crowds, not 2.

The Poser users

The Daz users

The Both users

At least among the content providers the third group is by far larger than the other two together.

Wanted to thank you for the link to making the skirt bones.  That will really help me in the future having that info handy!  :-)

Yes, but the point vintorix is making is:

It is textures you see, it is textures you render.

What coathanger you use is less important.

Textures and material room setup determine render quality.

For once, LOL, I agree with him. LOL.

Afrodite-Ohki, you are so beautiful that yourself is a walking work of art. With a body like yours, IMO, you should not have to do anything and should get paid from the state just for being.

Quote - Yes, but the point vintorix is making is:

It is textures you see, it is textures you render.

What coathanger you use is less important.

Textures and material room setup determine render quality.

For once, LOL, I agree with him. LOL.

LOL...me too ;). FWIW, I smell some REALLY good textures for Dawn being released, just judging by the crowd that's working on her already ;). With those that will be working on her, it'll just get better and better.

Laurie

When I got M5,V5.
I asked DAZ what was legal and illegal tools to use making content for them.

More or less it's like this.

You can touch M5,V5 to make morphs.

You can not use any tool that touches M5,V5.when making cloths.
no sweep tool ,no re topology tool.etc etc

Even thou shrink wrap tool does not touch M5,V5.
shrink wrap tool is still using M5,V5.
So you can not use the shrink wrap tool in zBrush.
But maybe you can use the shrink wrap tool in DAZ Studio I got cunfused on that.

Just a texture is not touching M5,V5.
Displacement maps are touching M5,V5.When Poser & DAZ gets vector maps they will also.
DAZ said we where aloud to make Displacement maps.

Just need to know HiveWire rules about Dawn & there meshes.

As far as I know, we've always been allowed to make textures and displacement is a texture, nothing more. You may have to directly maniuplate the mesh to get those baked displacements, but the final result can not be used to manipulate a mesh other than with the texture itself. Besides, morphing is direct maniuplation too and that's allowed.

FWIW, I do understand the shrink wrap thing. Technically one could create a body bag from that.

Laurie

Actually, I disagree with the statement that you render textures.

As in photography, you render light, virtual light that bounces off meshes and textures and is modified in the process.  Never forget that light is the medium, and it is how we create and  alter light that determines the render.

Quote - Afrodite-Ohki, you are so beautiful that yourself is a walking work of art. With a body like yours, IMO, you should not have to do anything and should get paid from the state just for being.

Ok, that's too huge of a blush you got me now. Thank you very much, but I'm really sure I'm not all that xD

sorry, wrong thread ;)

Bill

Textures are mapped to vertices, not to edges or faces, even though they can be affected by normals.  Morphing is allowed because it is vertex only, no edges or faces to be touched.  Anything with lines or polygons can be considered touching.

Quote - As far as I know, we've always been allowed to make textures and displacement is a texture, nothing more. You may have to directly maniuplate the mesh to get those baked displacements, but the final result can not be used to manipulate a mesh other than with the texture itself. Besides, morphing is direct maniuplation too and that's allowed.

FWIW, I do understand the shrink wrap thing. Technically one could create a body bag from that.

Laurie

You can bake a displacement in to a texture.it's what game meshes do. But a displacement is a lot more then just a texture. With a displacement you actually sculpt on the mesh.

It's there meshes .So I follow there rules. But with the 2013 tools there out dated.

I can't see a problem with displacement maps, otherwise all those 2nd skin textures you can find on various sites wouldn't be legal as well.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - @spyderbytes,thank you for understanding what I was trying to say. Did you see my suggestionabout a kickstarter campaign to create a Bullet soft body plugin?

I haven't really looked into it, but my initial reaction is that implementing the Bullet library in DS is a bigger chore than I, personally, would like to take on. If I were to do it, though, it would be opensourced and free... and hopefully with help and support from a couple of other programmers, at least one of which really understands the underlying Bullet code. I can almost guarantee I'd be in over my head trying to figure it out in any timely manner. ;) Not to mention I have severe COPD and would want to assure continuity for a project that's such an important DS puzzle piece.

Still, as the saying goes in response to "somebody should do that", am I not somebody? :D Best I can promise, though, is that I'll at least look into it.

Here, I was more speaking of providing the bits and pieces to extend DS Autofit and UV swapping to work with Dawn, which should be a much more manageable one-man project, I would think, AS LONG AS it's not violating anyone's intellectual property rights to do so.

If there were any legal problem against displacement maps, I've been breaking the law since I started making Poser stuff.

But then again, so would anybody who makes any textures. A displacement map is nothing but a texture map with different rendering rules.

I've made displacement maps before without working on a mesh.

You can do them in any graphic program.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - When I got M5,V5.
I asked DAZ what was legal and illegal tools to use making content for them.

More or less it's like this.

You can touch M5,V5 to make morphs.

You can not use any tool that touches M5,V5.when making cloths.
no sweep tool ,no re topology tool.etc etc

Even thou shrink wrap tool does not touch M5,V5.
shrink wrap tool is still using M5,V5.
So you can not use the shrink wrap tool in zBrush.
But maybe you can use the shrink wrap tool in DAZ Studio I got cunfused on that.

Just a texture is not touching M5,V5.
Displacement maps are touching M5,V5.When Poser & DAZ gets vector maps they will also.
DAZ said we where aloud to make Displacement maps.

 

Just need to know HiveWire rules about Dawn & there meshes.

Since Dawn is not based on any DAZ provided content, I cannot see what shrink wrapping to M5 or V5 has to do with Dawn. And why would you do that?

Ok, might as well ask them properly then:

HiveWire folks, are we allowed to use shrink wrap tools and retopology extracting tools to make tight clothes for Dawn?

Appeantly zBrush definition of displacement maps are different then Poser & DAZ's definition of displacement maps.

The probelm comes with topology tools as these take their reference from the mesh.

You can take any character into ZBrush and then use the masking tools to make an adaptive skin to work on.

In effect you are using someone elses work to create your own. That's why I use base meshes, I can just move polys around to do what I need.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - Appeantly zBrush definition of displacement maps are different then Poser & DAZ's definition of displacement maps.

In Zbrush you paint displacement directly on the mesh, yes, but in the end, the way you export it so that it works in Poser or DS, it becomes nothing but an image. You can't extract 3d information from it.

It's no different than painting a color texture in Zbrush directly over the mesh, really. If figure creators restricted that, it would actually hurt business - a lot of content creators would refrain from using that figure, and it'd be mighty hard to make quality stuff for it.

well he is technically correct in that yes a displacement map (one that is made by sculpting a higher res version of the figure and generating the map) is a dervitive work and therefore 'could' be disallowed by the holder of the IP rights...

.. but to suggest that they wouldn't allow that is a bit of a stretch..  The key principle that anyone in the poser content business ought to follow is that as long as you arent circumventing people needing to own the product or using one figure to enhance a competing figure its likely going to be OK.  Of course that is entirely up to HW3D.

Quote - The probelm comes with topology tools as these take their reference from the mesh.

You can take any character into ZBrush and then use the masking tools to make an adaptive skin to work on.

In effect you are using someone elses work to create your own. That's why I use base meshes, I can just move polys around to do what I need.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Yes. BUT. In the end, what's the difference between retopo-extracting to make a skintight outfit or sculpting it to be skintight? The end shape will be the same, only one can be easier than another.

Again, restricting that might hurt business.

Quote - > Quote - When I got M5,V5.

I asked DAZ what was legal and illegal tools to use making content for them.

More or less it's like this.

You can touch M5,V5 to make morphs.

You can not use any tool that touches M5,V5.when making cloths.
no sweep tool ,no re topology tool.etc etc

Even thou shrink wrap tool does not touch M5,V5.
shrink wrap tool is still using M5,V5.
So you can not use the shrink wrap tool in zBrush.
But maybe you can use the shrink wrap tool in DAZ Studio I got cunfused on that.

Just a texture is not touching M5,V5.
Displacement maps are touching M5,V5.When Poser & DAZ gets vector maps they will also.
DAZ said we where aloud to make Displacement maps.

 

Just need to know HiveWire rules about Dawn & there meshes.

Since Dawn is not based on any DAZ provided content, I cannot see what shrink wrapping to M5 or V5 has to do with Dawn. And why would you do that?

 

I had no idea that ZBrush HAS a shrink wrap tool.  I use that program every day.  Where is it?  Also on Shrink Wrap, I don't see how that can be a bad thing.  If your retopping the mesh and then shrink wrapping, yes, I can see how that's not cool at all but instead building your own mesh from scratch and retopping I would think that would be fine to do.  When I built my SuperSuit for Genesis I worked very hard getting the shape to match by using the various move tools and smoothing.  DAZ hasn't contacted me saying anything like "You can't do that" and trust me I have muliple threads on the DAZ forums, enough to get their attention!