Quote - Ouch.... a lot was stated there which wasn't deliver at all, but I don't see them saying they're going to end any wars where ever they may rage, although you could imply it.

After reading that again (it's been a long time since I've read that) I can safely say that Dawn didn't deliver at all, she not even close to as promoted. If they really had cashed in on those promises, wow, that would have been amazing. But all we did get was Dawn, no new era at all and for me the sun has set on her already and I keep on wishing :-)

Yeah. The initial announcements about Dawn sounded really interesting.

I lost interest when they started showing the renders. Not living up to the hype at all.  So far as I can see, Dawn seems to be making about the same impact as Antonia, Michelle, etc. I think the idea (wherever it actually came from) of Dawn being some kind of bridge-building between DS and Poser users encouraged vendors and made the figure look as though it would be more popular than it really would. To be honest I can't see what use she would be to anyone with DS anyway. Doesn't Genesis cover the needs for different female shapes? (Genuinely don't know as I've never used it, but that's what I'd assumed).

I wont give up on Dawn yet.

Perhaps the site was launched too early to live up to the hype. But I am sure they are working hard to try to get the pieces together to make her a worthwhile figure.

The tech gap between the software versions wont be healed....and I am sure we will see sets appear for dawn that are either poser or d/s, and NOT both...and yes people will complain about that. But as long as we know it will happen, then we can all deal with it.

The worst thing, if you want stuff developed for this figure, would be to complain to the product makers about "why didnt you make this or that version"...if they hear that enough, then they will simply think it is not worth the hassle to deal with Dawn..and that would not be good for anyone.

So give her time...and give product makers time as well.

Maybe half a year or a year from now we can look and see again how much of an impact she has made.

The probelm is, people want things NOW, sorry it does not work that way.

No matter of complaining is going to make something go through testing quicker. Do you want products to come out with problems in them so you can moan at them. I would sooner they took a bit longer and be right in the first place.

As to one side or the other having more products, that is down to the vendor having the skills to both versions. Now, I work in Poser, I can do a reasonable job with things, but no way could I do it in Studio. So, should I not produce anything because I can;t do it for both pieces of sftware?

The quick answer.......

NO!

I have stated many time that if anyone wants to take one of my Poser freebies and make it Studio compatible then I have no problems with it. I don't think of any of my items as precious and shouldn't be touched. IT's just something for people to use.

This thread is about Dawn, not other things that have been brought in to it.

I had to wait a long time for the Dawn skin MR, I had to wait for the Cybersuit by Xurge. It's not hard, the world won't end tomorrow if Dawn hasn't got a set of extra morphs available for it.

Can you make those products and get them into a store? Do you have the skill to do it in the first place?

I leave the making of excellent stuff to those that can do it.

Again, I have mentioned that things that may be appearing in the future I can't talk about sdue to NDA's and I take that NDA very SERIOUSLY.

Those that want everything and a bucket of chicken in the frist release of anything is going to be disapointed.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Well the good news is I got a email notification !!! :woot: :woot: :woot:

I would not have thought any company would say we will end the War.
I did not think HiverWire3D said we will end the War.
It's not Dawns responsibility to end the DAZ Poser War.It's Ours

The content creaters use LW,C4D,Max,Maya,XSI .
All on this forum.I never see them Warring.

Let me ask this again

Can't you model 3 diffrent meshes .
Name all the groups the same on all 3 meshes and have the cloths fit all 3 meshes ?

Same for UV Maps .
Have all 3 meshes UV Mapped the same and wouldn't the texture work for all 3 meshes ?

I can only answer on a personal and little "me" level.

What "end users" need for the fitting room is a single uv-mapped object file, + a diffuse texture, + a displacement map if the clothing requires it. That is all.

Rigging? Groups? Please save yourself the trouble and keep them.

And if the target figure "is" a completely different one?

Your clothing object will get a pass through Blender (or similar) to make the initial fit.
On average this extra 'Blender" step takes 10 minutes max.

You will give your clients more trouble by delivering a grouped but unwelded mesh.
Sorry, there is so much clothing available, I just can not make the time to start welding them up. Unwelded = Garbadge can. No exeptions.

No pun intended to any one.
Just a general remark on unwelded clothing.

Exeption. Dresses with handles. they have a muli figure problem.

No idea who ever invented this, but they should be on a trip to Mars by now. LOL. (venus if female) More LOL.  => Is Venus further away then Mars? LOL-LOL-LOL-y-bol.
Another soluton in search of a problem.
The cure?
Magnets. Magnets work everywhere, before, during, and after.
And so easy, probably too easy, to reproduce and adapt.
Ok, this takes time to do. Completely agree.

Also,  do not underestimate the capabilities of the end users.
Some are learning the new tools faster then I can type here.>

PS, I still do not understand the "3 meshes"? ? ? ?

We have Rox's,Dawn,Vicky.Three diffrent meshes Grouped n Mapped different.
If they where all Grouped n Mapped the same wouldn't cloths n textures work on all 3 with ease ?

Quote - We have Rox's,Dawn,Vicky.Three diffrent meshes Grouped n Mapped different.
If they where all Grouped n Mapped the same wouldn't cloths n textures work on all 3 with ease ?

You can only map a model the same as another model legally if you own the rights to both models, or if you get permission from the owner of the model you want to map to. UV maps are proprietary just like the geometry. Some people have remapped older figures to match more popular figures, but that doesn't make it legal unless they have permission to do so. Plus, unless the geometry was exactly the same, the "clone mapped" figure would have a lot of stretching in order to accomodate for the shape of the donor UV map. 

A 3rd party app can be used to convert textures from one figure to the other, but that won't fix stretching and distortion.

Same applies to rigging. Each model would have to share the same geometry and be the same shape and size in order to share exactly the same rigging without having to make adjustments. You can't use another figure's rig to create a new figure unless you own both figures (or have permission). Dev rigs are distributed to make content makers lives easier but a dev rig is a stripped-down bare-bones rig, pretty much only contains the JPs of the figure it's from, so that clothing makers can use it as a starting point to make clothing for that figure. But the skeleton of a figure is just part of the rig. You have to also include JCMs, magnets, etc. These things are mostly unique to each figure, especially JCMs. 

Does that help explain your question?

~Shane

Quote - As for option 3.. it does have some merit.. BUT  if I was a vendor I would not be comfortable attaching my name/ quality reputation to posers autorigging via the fitting room.  That being said... I would consider offering a complete package for one figure and adding a 'fitting room ready' version for user to play with if they chose... with a healthy disclaimer dis-avowing my self of any fitting room issues the end user might encounter!

I can kind of see your point there, but the fitting room is just another tool to make content creation easier. The clothing would still need adjustments and fine-tuning by hand to make it look as good on each figure. The original model is the fitting room ready version. 

I don't think vendors should have to worry about their reputation being damaged if they were using the fitting room in their work. If that were the case, then the same could be said of using the cloth room to create morphs, which a lot of people do. Or using a dev rig to create the clothing. Dev rigs can be created by hand, so why use one that's already provided?

~Shane

I get the copy rights thing.
I know it's a copyrights thing when DAZ goes no you can not used extrude or shrink wrap etc etc on Vicky.
Same goes for Rox's ,My Michelle right ?
What are the extrude or shrink wrap etc etc rules on Dawn ?

I really don't get why there mouths are closed thou.
Apparently they don't want anyone morphing lips ,I guess.

It seems they want us to make content for there meshes.
but then they go you half to jump threw all of our hoops to make content for our meshes.

I know it seems not to have hurt any mesh with that attitude.
And there are a lot of killer content creators .
but there's a lot of killer CGI Artist that don't make content .
So where missing out on a lot.

The mesh that would impress me the most would be the mesh that ask content creators.
What can I do to help you to make my mesh successful ?
With out jumping threw unnecessary hoops ?

Think that would be the mesh to have the biggest impact also.

Quote -  

It seems they want us to make content for there meshes.
but then they go you half to jump threw all of our hoops to make content for our meshes.

Certain things have to stay protected, or people would be doing whatever they want with it, making their own figures, etc. 

You can shrinkwrap a body if you're only using it to build clothing for that figure. There are plenty of base bodysuits people have made for free for the most popular figures. They used to be called quicksuits.

You just can't shrinkwrap a body to make your own independent figure. The body shape and the geometry that makes it is proprietary. 

~Shane

This is why I was a little surprised and saddened that antonia didnt draw more support.  Being creative commons liscenced there is very little you cant do legally.  She was very open and free to work with.  I wonder if things might have been different if she was released in the PP2014 era (subD, fitting room) vs the PP2012 era.

One thing I will say is that I think dawn has made a bigger impact (and in a way I wish it weren't so) than Antonia did.  I think the content quantity and quality is stronger with dawn and I think the interest level 90 days in is still strong.  As an example I dont think 3 months after AntoniaWM release we were having this discussion about her.  And I say all this as someone who quite loved antonia and the good folks who gifted her to the community.

Quote - > Quote -  

It seems they want us to make content for there meshes.
but then they go you half to jump threw all of our hoops to make content for our meshes.

 

Certain things have to stay protected, or people would be doing whatever they want with it, making their own figures, etc. 

You can shrinkwrap a body if you're only using it to build clothing for that figure. There are plenty of base bodysuits people have made for free for the most popular figures. They used to be called quicksuits.

You just can't shrinkwrap a body to make your own independent figure. The body shape and the geometry that makes it is proprietary. 

 

~Shane

ODF spent 4 years modeling Antonia in Wings.
I swear they should have gave ODF AutoDesk Max n MudBox for that.

But ODF released Antonia and then ODF left.
CGI Artist are not going to support what the creator does not.

and we all know how CGI Artist can get when a creator no longer supports there mesh 100% any more.

Every time a new company buys Poser.
I wait to see if they get it and if there going to support there meshes.

I'm on a lot of CGI email list and forums.
If I was HiveWire3D I would go door to door if that's what it took
to get venders to support Dawn and have Add's threw out the web.
Just like the rest have.

Quote - Ouch.... a lot was stated there which wasn't deliver at all, but I don't see them saying they're going to end any wars where ever they may rage, although you could imply it.

After reading that again (it's been a long time since I've read that) I can safely say that Dawn didn't deliver at all, she not even close to as promoted. If they really had cashed in on those promises, wow, that would have been amazing. But all we did get was Dawn, no new era at all and for me the sun has set on her already and I keep on wishing :-)

Well they couldn't exactly say "We're coming out with yet another figure that people are destined to ignore" could they. If you can't show excitement for your product you're doomed out of the gate. As far as healing the "rift", who in their right mind believed that? Or cared? It's good old fashiond marketing hype, as American as apple pie. What's wrong with that?

I'll tell you where they did deliver. They built interest in the product, they released the base figure on time, they created a storefront to support it, they formed a team to handle different aspects of the business, they've made partnerships with the other major retail sites to put the product in front of customers and they've enticed well known and respected content creators to make product. These are all things that none of the other "contenders" ever did.

Sad but true, a lot of the time the quality of a product comes second to marketing, business plans and relationships. That part they did pretty well. Keep in mind that Bill Gates sold IBM an OS before he had even created it, at least HW has a product.

That said, Dawn has a long hard road in front of it. DS users don't need her, old school Poser users have created workflows around Vicky, and users of older versions of Poser can't use her. Dawn doesn't have to "win" right now, she has to survive. I can say without question however that Dawn has had a greater impact on the Poserverse so far than any of the previous 3rd party figures combined and is probably the best hope for a modern, supported, non-Daz figure going forward.

Both "Main" companies made errors.

SM by releasing Poser9/PP2012 without new and improved figures.
SM (sorry SM) again, by releasing Poser10/PP2014 with good but unfinished figures.

DAZ by creating a "Non Poser compatible figure". (Please do not mention DSON) Gen is not Poser compatible, period.

Result?
V4/M4 continued for too long, and most end users are way over their point of no return in V4/M4 investment.
No Dawn or Dusk or Gen figure can ever change that.

To storm the market , any new figure will have to be revolutionary.
Compatble with both apps.
Usable => That is WITH a complete morph set included from the start.
And with "TONS" of =>=> => F R E E => => => content from the start.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Never forget you start with a backlog of a couple of thousand items.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dawn, is not revolutionary. Is not usable from the start as there is no free standard Morph ++ pack.

Main problem that is killing her is simple.
HW started thinking in dollars about a year too soon. "F I R S T" make your figure more popular then V4/M4.

That is what they forgot.

Just my 2 cents on all 3 companies.

But why does V4/M4 continue for too long at all? Who says we can't use them anymore? I'm not new figure hungry at all, I don't need a new one. V3/4, M3/4 G2, and even older poser figures still work very well for me. Besides I've got tons of content for them.

You can vote with your wallets here... ;)

http://www.renderosity.com/2013-gravy-bowl-dawn-vs-v4-challenge-cms-16824

I'm with Tony on Dawn's usability.  Without more expression morphs, she isn't very useful to me.  She has fewer than Antonia, who doesn't have enough.  Other commercial base figures have far more.  Being patient is one thing, but if its not usable without going into a modeler, that's a rather large problem for a commercial figure.  Better to use something that does what one wants it to do.  As I've said before, these are just tools...

@ aeilkema

Daz is pushing Gen
HW is pushing Dawn
I was just summing up where and why they fail to succeed.

And you confirm what I wrote :-) => You have tons of content for them. (V3-4/M3-4 that is)

I dont know that the morphs pack needed to be free.. v4's never was unless you were a pirate.  However I will agree that it did hurt their success somehwat by not having it available earlier on.  I do believe expressions/morphs are coming quite soon, though it is a little late as far as the 'strike while the iron is hot' axiom goes.  

There are a lot of issues involved in this I'm sure.  There is a certain need to get things rolling early on and get some income rolling in to 'keep the lights on' so to speak.  There is also the need to get wider feedback on the figure before building the next step.  A lot of things that might be shortcomings of the base figure can be addressed as part of the morphs pack, but if they both roll out at the same time there is opportunity lost in making those corrections or addressinmg those issues.

Did they release her a bit too soon.. possibly..

Maybe an 'open beta' period would have been appropriate to allow the possibility of more change to satisfy concerns... but then...  who is going to bother making content for a 'beta' figure.  At least with a released figure the content creator can build with the confidence that their work will stand up and they wont need to re-do it.

I've been playing with the figure a lot, and doing some testing and what not.  I'm quite satisfied with her for the most part.  Her eye geometry is a bit weird but there have been morphs to adress that.  Her base texture isn't mind blowing, and has some issues, but its a serious step up from v4!  Her bends are generally pretty good, though the thigh/butt area doesn't bend as nicely AntoniaWM, Miki 4 or roxie (though the inner thigh doesnt collapse slightly the way miki4s does).  The broad shoulders can be adjusted with simple scaling so they dont bother me much, though I can see how they irritate some folk who like their figures daintier.  

To say she isn't making an impact just isn't true.  She has already broader support than any of the other third party WM figures has garnered.  Michelle managed a pretty decent hit of support, but largely limited to RDNA.  Antonia still has her niche support but never gathered the kind of support Dawn had right off the bat.  She has definitely changed things.. its just still to be determined by how much

You know a thought crossed my mind ,a rare event for sure but it does happen once in a blue moon.

Every year V4 becomes more & more obsolete.
Third parties attempt to patch her up with weight maps and stuff.
but there seriously limited to what they can do.

You can only patch up that old Ford for so long.

Maybe not today but one day V4 will become extinct.

That would be the day to ask about Dawns impact.

V4 must not be to obsolete, she still has things made for her everyday. And she is still mentioned in comparison to just about every other character.

V4 is the main character in the Poser universe, simply from the amount of stuff there is for her and the length of time she has been supported.

Simply mentioning her extends the time she will be around as well.

She isn't going anywhere any time soon.

Quote - V4 must not be to obsolete, she still has things made for her everyday. And she is still mentioned in comparison to just about every other character.

V4 is the main character in the Poser universe, simply from the amount of stuff there is for her and the length of time she has been supported.

Simply mentioning her extends the time she will be around as well.

She isn't going anywhere any time soon.

Unless, of course, she gets the Disney treatment.

Quote - Maybe not today but one day V4 will become extinct. That would be the day to ask about Dawns impact.

I've got the feeling that Dawn may become extinct before V4 finally does :-)

In the words of Sam Healey from the Dice TOwer:-

"Build a bridge, and get over it."

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Support for a figure can be native or converted. 

There are now pretty good tools for converting clothing (wardrobe wizard, Xdresser) tools in Poser itself (fitting room, cloth room, magnets) and hair (HCS, own magnet setc). Poser comes with tools to tune the results (morph painter). Choice of tools for a job depends on model at hand, result required and time available. The algorithms used in these tools get better all the time and the growing computation power we all have at hand allows better conversions in acceptable time. 

Recent arrival on the conversion market is texture transformer. Technology appears to work for V4->Dawn conversions and conversion to Roxie and others is announced.

Universal poses have been around in Poser for a while, but the feature needs updating to allow for differences in hierarchy. Dawn is much more segmented than previous figures for example, and Roxie has bettern hand articulation. I expect someone will pick this up and make a PoseConverter that takes V4 poses and chews them into Dawn, Roxie, or whatever figure on demand poses using the features of the target figure in an intelligent way, distributing the bending over the added body parts and, who knows, making adjustments for the morphs that are set, so 'hand on hip' places hand closer to centre for further away depennding on the value of the 'skinny' and 'queen size butt' FBM.    

All this makes the support for a figure issue is less pressing or important than it was before.

First difficulty in conversion is the correct interpretation of the donor data. When the donor is standard, conversion is easier. V4 may have her problems as a figure, but at least she is a de-facto standard for supporting content and that is how I think she will stay with us for a long time and why it is still safe to invest in development of content for her. Maybe not to be ued in conjunction with the V4 figure itself, but converted to whatever figure is en vogue at the time. 

For successful development of new figures I think developers must focus on getting support of the conversion tools. 

This will hopefully open the market for native 'other' figures: Gnomes shaped, rigged and tuned to represent a gnome and not an ideal adult morphed and scaled to proportions of a gnome; old hags shaped, rigged and tuned to represent an old hag in all respects and not an ideal adult morphed to look like an old hag but bending with the skin flexibility of a teenager, and so on. 

Just my 5 cents. 

Quote - @ aeilkema

Daz is pushing Gen
HW is pushing Dawn
I was just summing up where and why they fail to succeed.

And you confirm what I wrote :-) => You have tons of content for them. (V3-4/M3-4 that is)

So what? You're saying no one's going to buy new clothes for new figures? If that were the case, we'd all still be using Posette.

I have a closet full of stuff for V4 AND V3. Less for V2, but still there. And I'm rapidly fleshing out decent wardrobes for Miki 4, the G2 females, Anastasia, Tyler, Rex, Roxie and even Ben and Kate.

I will agree with your earlier post though about SM leaving Rex and Roxie  unfinished. Can you imagine how versatile Roxie would be if she had the amount of built in morphs that Alyson2 did?

Quote - You know a thought crossed my mind ,a rare event for sure but it does happen once in a blue moon.

Every year V4 becomes more & more obsolete.
Third parties attempt to patch her up with weight maps and stuff.
but there seriously limited to what they can do.

You can only patch up that old Ford for so long.

Maybe not today but one day V4 will become extinct.

That would be the day to ask about Dawns impact.

 

I am not sure what you mean by obsolete.  I can understand the old Ford where parts wear out and are no longer made but even here you could get some parts made. Do you mean when there is no longer any vendor support? If so, then just like the Ford you make your own, if you have the skill, or use the vast back catalogue.

I have no doubt V4 will be replaced with something better, but I have not seen that yet, at that point she may fade into the background but I suspect she is a long way off being extinct.  I also think that if the replacement is a massive improvement that it could also have a similar impact on Dawn as she is not a massive improvement, if any on V4.  I also wonder what the new figure will do for the average user that V4 or Dawn does not do today.

By "Obsolete" I am sure what people are referring to is that the technology keeps on growing with these programs, and what was considered "good" 3 years ago, just wont cut it anymore.

There was a time where simple bump maps on textures was amasing tech and was good. So there are alot of products what are simply textures and bump maps. But then displacment maps came in and people could add even more dimension to the textures. There could be real wrinkles, and all kinds of other data added to make the figure look much better. Then came other shaders like SSS which added even another dimension of details to textures.

Now with the advent of things like HD morphs, the palette of what can be done will grow even more, and people will grow to expect that kind of detail in their sets.

So older products can only be converted to new things so often before people start to realize that that is included in those old sets just doesnt hold up to current standards.

That is why I quite often retire alot of my older characters. Its not that they are not good characters, but compared to what can be done today...they just wont hold up anymore.

So yes...things can get obsolete in this market.

Look how happy people got when v4 got weight mapped....would they be that happy if they were just content with the old v4 as she was?
Would people have gotten as excited about dawn if they were still content with the old v4?

At some level we all are realizing that the old stuff is just not good enough anymore, and we want all the new goodness.

Quote - By "Obsolete" I am sure what people are referring to is that the technology keeps on growing with these programs, and what was considered "good" 3 years ago, just wont cut it anymore.

There was a time where simple bump maps on textures was amasing tech and was good. So there are alot of products what are simply textures and bump maps. But then displacment maps came in and people could add even more dimension to the textures. There could be real wrinkles, and all kinds of other data added to make the figure look much better. Then came other shaders like SSS which added even another dimension of details to textures.

Now with the advent of things like HD morphs, the palette of what can be done will grow even more, and people will grow to expect that kind of detail in their sets.

So older products can only be converted to new things so often before people start to realize that that is included in those old sets just doesnt hold up to current standards.

That is why I quite often retire alot of my older characters. Its not that they are not good characters, but compared to what can be done today...they just wont hold up anymore.

So yes...things can get obsolete in this market.

Look how happy people got when v4 got weight mapped....would they be that happy if they were just content with the old v4 as she was?
Would people have gotten as excited about dawn if they were still content with the old v4?

At some level we all are realizing that the old stuff is just not good enough anymore, and we want all the new goodness.

 

I understand, and agree with a lot of what you say, with the exception that I really don't see that Dawn actually does provide anything massively better than V4WM at this point, which some users are not excited by her thus far.

I think it also depends on your definition of obsolete which can suggest 'unable to use' rather than 'not want to use'.  Also many of the advances such as SSS are independant of the figure so has minimal impact.

Finally, in order to use both V4WM and Dawn you need the latest editions of Poser and, as many are still on very early versions of Poser I can see V4 being used for many years to come.  If this is the case it is hard to argue V4 will be obsolete any time soon.  To some it may well be 'retired'  but that is slightly different. 

Just stating my view while still very interested in the view of others.

Glad to hear you got ProTools 10! When we have multiple hobbies sometimes one has to take the back seat for awhile. I was not playing with 3D much when I was focusing on Guitar.

LOL on your comments RE: The Earbudders! I've got a pair of electrostatic head phones I love for serious music listening.

RE: Zbrush-I've had several requests to sell my Dawn Characters and Creatures. Might just test the water in that regard!

To all: not sure why one figure has to eliminate another. Doubt that will happen. I am currently focused on Dawn morphing-but there is no reason not to use V4WM still.

NONE: of the complaints about Dawn have held out-from my perspective-regarding being able to make her look like anything-or anyone I want. Granted, I am a beginning Zbrush user-so I have a better tool than most. I wanted a young lovely, I made one that does not look like base Dawn.

 Also I find it easier to make D maps-and "crank" them up without "breaks" at the edges of the UV maps. I still don't know WHY that would be!

Quote - Eric, Joe....

I'd already have Z Brush if I hadn't stumbled across a deal on Pro Tools 10..... :P The pipeline was pretty bare in the audio end. But now with Pro Tools and my lovely Sennheiser HD380 pro headphones with their absolutely =flat= response curve, I'm oh so ready there (well, except for a good condenser for vocal, and a decent pair for stereo environment). If you need to do audio work trust me, they are =so= worth the cost (Plus it's funny as all hell to wave them at a member of the earbud generation, watch them sorta hesitantly place them on their heads....and then pale and start looking frantically for the bass boost. Or yank them off and go on a long tear about the 'cheap defective headset with no thump to them').

Yeah, Poser -does- need a glamour dolly that grabs attention....but said dolly needs to be Poser-centric, and utilize all the new goodies to the max. Dawn has potential....but at this stage, that is all it is. As to the wisdom of the choice SM made....it's about 2 years since the Great Divide, and there is already two incompatible versions of the g-thing out there. Whereas the stuff that Syyd, PhilC, Traveller, Davo, Dendras, Sean, Penguinisto, Netherworks, Anton, Diane, DaCort, Rawnr, Xurge, etc, etc etc made over the past decade+ are all still useable. I've got a small movie cast's worth of figure's in the runtime, and what I do in Poser can be output in several standards the industry accepts, which makes it easier to work with other applications (not that they couldn't add a few more; EXR would be lovely). I hope she succeeds, but I do -not- want to see Dawn, or any other figure, become 'the vicky killer'. That paradigm has resulted in, to quote, "More slutwear than all of New York's Victoria's Secrets combined". The marketplace needs to embrace variance.....it's the only way it will ultimately survive.  

Quote - Yeah, Poser -does- need a glamour dolly that grabs attention....but said dolly needs to be Poser-centric, and utilize all the new goodies to the max. Dawn has potential....but at this stage, that is all it is.

What exactly does "Poser-centric" refer to? With the notable exception of the "figure who's name dare not be mentioned" every other figure released has basically been a "Poser-centric" figure. As far as I know, Dawn, Mariko and My Michelle don't take advantage of Poser's face room, but then again neither does P7 Kate and she's a native Poser figure. But that's about it.

Looks good Eric Walters.

Quote - > Quote - Yeah, Poser -does- need a glamour dolly that grabs attention....but said dolly needs to be Poser-centric, and utilize all the new goodies to the max. Dawn has potential....but at this stage, that is all it is.

What exactly does "Poser-centric" refer to? With the notable exception of the "figure who's name dare not be mentioned" every other figure released has basically been a "Poser-centric" figure. As far as I know, Dawn, Mariko and My Michelle don't take advantage of Poser's face room, but then again neither does P7 Kate and she's a native Poser figure. But that's about it.

By Poser-centric, I mean taking advantage of the advances in the program. How many figures actually take advantage of weightmapping? The animateable joint centers (which for the first time gives us a rigging option that more closely simulates what an actual joint can do without half a dozen jcm's or  8 magnets to fix the mesh issues)? The ability to link control dials to a master dial (a poor man's version of morph dependency that Maya, for instance, uses to link localized morphs to specific single controls. So a 'smile' slider affects single morphs all over a character's face to produce a =smile=...not a bending of the mouth corners)? P4 came out a -looooong- time ago. People drop dozens to hundreds of dollars regularly for content, yet turn pale at the idea of spending part of that budget to upgrade to a better version? Keeping the backwards compatibility isn't the issue; having modern content adhere to the standards (and kludges) of a decade past are.

For example: I -like- Mariko. I like Dan Cortopassi's work. But that mesh has a -big- memory footprint. Going to weights and removing the need for most or all of the magnets and jcm's would slim her down considerably. Poser-dom is still pretty mired in the DAZ created 'We won't use any tech beyond P4 so nyaaah' that came about years ago.

We have Pixar SubD now.....and as several threads have shown, anyone who intends it to be used has to plan their mesh flow in advance of modelling. Or deal with people howling because the mesh exploded or choked their system to death. We've been seeing some advances in things like the architectural meshes (greater use of shaders for lighting, for instance; not just textures with painted highlights), but most figure work still holds to the tech of software 6 releases ago....  

Quote - Dale B,

Glad to hear you got ProTools 10! When we have multiple hobbies sometimes one has to take the back seat for awhile. I was not playing with 3D much when I was focusing on Guitar.

Yeah, to make animations you have to have multiple hobbies. I miss my guitar right now; ulnar nerve damage and carpal tunnel in the left (dominant for me) forearm. Still have my grip, but side to side control is minimal to nonexistant Waiting to see what the ortho says about it..... :/

Quote - LOL on your comments RE: The Earbudders! I've got a pair of electrostatic head phones I love for serious music listening.

Almost as much fun as taking an mp3 weenie and giving them an example of what uncompressed fidelity actually sounds like; I particularly like getting one that doesn't really know and destroying their fantasies. One dude I did that to was a Yanni fan (as I am), and had never heard any of his work uncompressed. Just his little Ipod on his arm strap. Can't say he had tears in his eyes, but I could sure toss a ping-pong ball into that slack jaw....  

Quote - RE: Zbrush-I've had several requests to sell my Dawn Characters and Creatures. Might just test the water in that regard! To all: not sure why one figure has to eliminate another. Doubt that will happen. I am currently focused on Dawn morphing-but there is no reason not to use V4WM still.

Three Morphs for the Polygon Lords neath the lowering sky,

Seven for the fanboys in their basements of stone,

Nine for end users doomed to cry,

One for the DAZ lord on his darkened throne

In the land of Draper, where the Shadows lie.

One Mesh to Rule them all, One mesh to Find them,

One Mesh to Bring them all, and in the DAZness bind them,

In the land of Draper, where the Shadows lie.(With apologies to Tolkien.....) That is pretty much -still- the mindset out there. People are too fixated on that particular business model....and anything that doesn't adhere to it is considered a 'failure'. Not in its merits, but on wether it fits a business model.

Variety is the Spice of Life....I like a large variety of characters in my runtime as I do a lot of art work for friends who require or need different looking characters for their projects.

I still use V3, M3 and the G2 characters along with V4, M4 and K4 and now sprinkle in Dawn here and there as her wardrobe expands.

If the Vendors support a character in this and the RDNA marketplace with what I will call the everyday look, then I am buying. I stopped using Antonia and Alyson only because the vendors stopped supporting them.

I don't know how Dawn has affected other users, but she has  inspired me to release my first face/head morph for any character :biggrin:

http://www.sharecg.com/v/73045/browse/11/Poser/KarenV1-for-Dawn

Bill

Very nice Bill!

Bill she looks good :) Great job!

bill.. love that hair... I do more renders of bald women than anything else simply because most of the hair I have actually looks less realistic than a scene full of bald ladies

Aliyah Hair from RDNA :D

Bill

Cool morph WillyB53,ya could always post a link to your Renderosity gallery

Been wondering about the hype. Glad to see someone being honest.

Here is a render with Dawn and V4 (same MAT, same cloth, same hair). 

I like the V4 (right) more, she looks cuter in my eyes. 

Henning 

I love Dawn.  I've gotten a tad frazzled, waiting for the new advanced morphs to come out.  Still, I can't go back to V4 -- I've tried, when a really fabulous character came out.  I'd end up putting the character skin on Dawn, with the texture transformer, though.

There's something about her that fascinates some of us.  Obviously not all, but some.  Some of us have been inspired to do things we haven't done before, like try character creation.  Dawn has sparked some of us to push our render buttons, to make her more like we think she should be.  And some of us make clothes or other stuff for her, and try to make the items more unique than anything we've ever modeled before.

She has definitely made an impact on a portion of the Poser-verse.  Some DAZ'erites have decided to switch to her, also. 

It'd be interesting to do a survey, and see what the folks who use Dawn have in common.  :-)  Please, don't anyone say something mean like "insanity."  We are only nuts over Dawn.

There's nothing wrong with liking Dawn, V4, Roxie or any figure, and no one should have to justify their choice to anyone. There is no "right way" to create art.

Very true.  :-) 

DaleB

I enjoyed reading your post! The Lord of the Rings spoof is excellent! Sorry to read about your nerve damage and carpal tunnel. Damn!

Quote - > Quote - Dale B,

Glad to hear you got ProTools 10! When we have multiple hobbies sometimes one has to take the back seat for awhile. I was not playing with 3D much when I was focusing on Guitar.

Yeah, to make animations you have to have multiple hobbies. I miss my guitar right now; ulnar nerve damage and carpal tunnel in the left (dominant for me) forearm. Still have my grip, but side to side control is minimal to nonexistant Waiting to see what the ortho says about it..... :/

Quote - LOL on your comments RE: The Earbudders! I've got a pair of electrostatic head phones I love for serious music listening.

Almost as much fun as taking an mp3 weenie and giving them an example of what uncompressed fidelity actually sounds like; I particularly like getting one that doesn't really know and destroying their fantasies. One dude I did that to was a Yanni fan (as I am), and had never heard any of his work uncompressed. Just his little Ipod on his arm strap. Can't say he had tears in his eyes, but I could sure toss a ping-pong ball into that slack jaw....

Quote - RE: Zbrush-I've had several requests to sell my Dawn Characters and Creatures. Might just test the water in that regard! To all: not sure why one figure has to eliminate another. Doubt that will happen. I am currently focused on Dawn morphing-but there is no reason not to use V4WM still.

Three Morphs for the Polygon Lords neath the lowering sky,

Seven for the fanboys in their basements of stone,

Nine for end users doomed to cry,

One for the DAZ lord on his darkened throne

In the land of Draper, where the Shadows lie.

One Mesh to Rule them all, One mesh to Find them,

One Mesh to Bring them all, and in the DAZness bind them,

In the land of Draper, where the Shadows lie.(With apologies to Tolkien.....) That is pretty much -still- the mindset out there. People are too fixated on that particular business model....and anything that doesn't adhere to it is considered a 'failure'. Not in its merits, but on wether it fits a business model.

 Well put Jan. Well put. I have made quite a few Dawn characters and creatures. I made several for V4 as well. It does not mean I wont use V4 ever again, just mostly Dawn these days.

Quote - I love Dawn.  I've gotten a tad frazzled, waiting for the new advanced morphs to come out.  Still, I can't go back to V4 -- I've tried, when a really fabulous character came out.  I'd end up putting the character skin on Dawn, with the texture transformer, though.

There's something about her that fascinates some of us.  Obviously not all, but some.  Some of us have been inspired to do things we haven't done before, like try character creation.  Dawn has sparked some of us to push our render buttons, to make her more like we think she should be.  And some of us make clothes or other stuff for her, and try to make the items more unique than anything we've ever modeled before.

She has definitely made an impact on a portion of the Poser-verse.  Some DAZ'erites have decided to switch to her, also. 

It'd be interesting to do a survey, and see what the folks who use Dawn have in common.  :-)  Please, don't anyone say something mean like "insanity."  We are only nuts over Dawn.

 

 

Well M6 was finally released.
There was a time gap between V6 release & M6's release.

If we compare Dawn with Vicky .
Shouldn't we compare Dawn1 with Vicky1 ? That's Posetta isn't it ?

V6 was released with pro packs ,morph packs etc etc.
V1 was released with plastic hair.
Half to say D1 is better then V1.

Maybe Dawn 6 will be released with pro packs ,morph packs etc etc.
And her very own custom made ,just for her software.

Since where on the subject of Rings.

Rings have had such significance to humans over the Centuries.
Yet here now with are new 21st centery CGI tech.
The only perfect quad topology mesh is a Ring.

There's just something eery about that.
It's beyound me ,Maybe Raistlin or Merlin would know.

Who knows.... :-)