Quote - Poser's popularity has always been content-driven. So it only makes sense that without new, cutting-edge, quality content to compete with everything else that's available, its bound to diminish in popularity as people migrate over to where the new shinies are. So yeah, pretty much I think that's why the two biggest Poser forums are mostly crickets chirping lately. And this isn't intended to start another debate, it's just an honest observation. Poser needs new content. Without it, its users go elsewhere.

I hear that alot, but I'll have to see SM's sales figures to fully believe it.  I'd think having things like the fitting room, morphs transfers, EZskin etc. would increase sales of Poser itself while lessening users' dependence on content.  Daz need to sell content because they give their program away, while Poser sales should spike whenever new features address users' needs.  (I know I'm in the minority, I buy very little but always look forward to new features to let me rework/improve the quality of my older projects or to attempt what would have been previously too daunting.)  If Poser sales are that dependent on content, I'd expect SM would push content more than they do.

Quote - I haven't been around much the last few months cause I've felt like crap. And when I'm not feeling like crap I'm working on commissions and other projects to pay the bills. But I usually still lurk if only to keep up to date on what's going on, which has been nothing lately.

I don't think the diminishing forum activity has as much to do with debates or arguments as it does with competition. There have always been heated debates that spring up, on topics new and old, and it rarely had any affect on how much activity continued in the forums. But that was back when there was little to no competition with Poser, and that's not the case anymore. 

Poser's popularity has always been content-driven. So it only makes sense that without new, cutting-edge, quality content to compete with everything else that's available, its bound to diminish in popularity as people migrate over to where the new shinies are.

Where is the content that utilizes all of Posers newest features?  The way I see it, without some serious effort on SMs part to put resources into some major content development that rivals its competition, the silence around the various Poser forums is just going to continue to grow. The best they currently have to offer is Rex and Roxie. They've been out for nearly a year now, but SM's own site doesn't even offer much of anything in the way of content for them. 3 or 4 items? Business suits seems to be the only official content they've done. In a year. Nothing official for developers to use to make character sets, nothing. 

So yeah, pretty much I think that's why the two biggest Poser forums are mostly crickets chirping lately. And this isn't intended to start another debate, it's just an honest observation. Poser needs new content. Without it, its users go elsewhere.

 

~Shane

Could be, but I really think that two biggest Poser forums are mostly crickets chirping lately is due to control. I haven't visited DAZ for a long time now. They're just not too Poser friendly anymore and after banning other Vendors from their forums I had no reason to go there anymore. Here the Poser forum lately is controlled a bit too much for my taste as well. I see people who were active here gone to other places. RDNA has always been a dead place.

But I must say the new mods (while controlling perhaps a bit too much) are better then the old ones. They were very partial, often banning people who were the actual victims of others, while letting the causing party continue on and on. Also certain characters constantly calling troll troll troll was very annoying. At least that is much better now, but the life has gone as well and that's a shame.

Quote - Where is the content that utilizes all of Posers newest features?

Personally I don't see the need for doing so. I'm in a niche market and for that market stuff even needs to be working on old versions like Poser 6. Also V3 & V4 and their male counterparts are still very popular, so no changes there either. The newest figures like Dawn simply pass by the newest technology and the SM figures are ugly as ever, except for Miki perhaps.

As long as SM delivers crappy figures that will never change. SM should seriously sit down and have talk with Hivewire3D about figures for the next Poser version. But we know that's never going to happen and we all know that this whole so called Poser community coming together around Dawn died as soon as Hivewire3D opened their store and became competition for the others. I don't blame them, I wouldn't want to work together with Rendo and RDNA either. The only ones that can really make a difference here are SM and they haven't done it and I doubt they ever will.

In terms of sales many sellers I know are saying it's a lot slimmer than usual. While thats not uncommon after xmas, I sense from this year the recovery period is longer as many folks are still struggling. But (based on freebie downloads) I wouldn't say theres any less interest in 3D, far from it. Where my freebies used to average 3-4GB a week now it's 6-7GB. Though I will agree the forums do seem less busy than usual. Not sure why, but I do feel those "lets blame the vendors" threads or attacks on freebie makers are not helping in anyway. Especially after the winter, where Joe rightly points out, a lot of folks have been ill. Get a few bugs like that and you don't feel burning the midnight anyway, let alone if you know your reward is likely to be some pratt who couldn't texture a cube even if you did for them. OK sure the majority of folks are great, but after a while the idiots do wear you down. Which is one reason why I've stopped releasing a weekly freebie. So it was nice to see basicwiz posting his thread about civility. Which I think will help and hopefully get more people back on the boards. As for products, yea Dawns nice enough but only if you have P9, same for the genesis stuff, and I hear from folks who like to see theres still stuff for V3/M3. So maybe the answer (product-wise) is not to think about new "super-figures" but to make stuff for the existing ones.

Quote - - "Where is the content that utilizes all of Posers newest features?"  

Personally I don't see the need for doing so. I'm in a niche market and for that market stuff even needs to be working on old versions like Poser 6. Also V3 & V4 and their male counterparts are still very popular, so no changes there either. The newest figures like Dawn simply pass by the newest technology and the SM figures are ugly as ever, except for Miki perhaps.

I see it from a marketing/business perspective. 

What's the point in adding all this new tech to the software when none of the content utilizes the tech?

That's like buying a brand new sports car and keeping it parked in the garage. What's the point?

The competition builds software that allows them to get more out of the content, and then builds content to utilize those new features. 

Competitor forums are much more active than the Poser forums here or at RDNA, and their moderators have always ruled with iron fists. So what does that say? 

But whatever. I'm not interested in debating the issue. I just stated how I see it.  

~Shane

Quote -  Edit: I also observe that as usual with supercilious comments like that that the author has no gallery or portofolio anywhere so we can compare his stuff with Poser stuff.

 I don't know. I've been accused of trolling before and I don't have a gallery or portfolio and my profile is pretty much non-existant. I never bother, even when I posted mostly at DAZ. Anybody that wants to check out anything I've done is free to peruse the Freestuff here or check out my webcomics.

Quote - Personally I don't see the need for doing so. I'm in a niche market and for that market stuff even needs to be working on old versions like Poser 6. Also V3 & V4 and their male counterparts are still very popular, so no changes there either. The newest figures like Dawn simply pass by the newest technology and the SM figures are ugly as ever, except for Miki perhaps.

As long as SM delivers crappy figures that will never change. SM should seriously sit down and have talk with Hivewire3D about figures for the next Poser version. But we know that's never going to happen and we all know that this whole so called Poser community coming together around Dawn died as soon as Hivewire3D opened their store and became competition for the others. I don't blame them, I wouldn't want to work together with Rendo and RDNA either. The only ones that can really make a difference here are SM and they haven't done it and I doubt they ever will.

I swear i just don't get this train of thought that people have who want Poser to become a Studio clone just so they can run Genesis natively. I ask once again, why not just use Studio if you honestly believe that Poser sucks so much?

Also, while I can't defend the way Alyson2 looked, I don't think Roxie is ugly by any stretch of the imagination. Of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I used to think people were being facetious about that "Make Art" button, but I'm not so certain about that any more.

     Quote - " - "Where is the content that utilizes all of Posers newest features?"

     Well, I don't have anything which simultaneously uses every new feature, but I do have stuff which uses some new features in my freebies gallery. :P

     As soon as P8/PPro2010 was released, I made a light-casting Lightsabre, Miri's treehouse, TinkerBell's drive-in Cafe', and the first elven skiff.  For SSS, I have a jade mug and a candle.  Galadriel's mirror uses every material room dirty trick in the book.  Eldar house uses sequential JPEGs in the movie node (I think that was P9 SR3?) and matrices to animate materials.  Xanadu has more IDL light-casting than you could shake a stick at.  Ghostbusters used PPro2014's fitting room, matrix animated materials, sequential JPEG animation, gobs of IDL, and a refractive ghost.  Kugelbahn is hilarious when soft body physics is used on the marbles.  (Bullet physics gets blocked by the "concavity" bug).

     I enjoy making these proof-of-concept freebies, but the downside is that they only work fully in the Poser version (or later) for which they were made.

Quote - ... I sense from this year the recovery period is longer as many folks are still struggling.

  I think so also.      My gallery is mostly just test renders/freebie promos.  It might not be a good measure of my level of interest.

politics  and  religion

Just cause some one  say something you don't like does not mean you half to respond.
Your not changing there mind, philosophy  or point of view.
There not changing your mind, philosophy  or point of view.
So what is the point of responding. it's a endless battle that never ends ,ever.
If you fight these  battles it's your chose but  war is a heartless cold mistress.
& this is a Art forum if you want to battle it's a lot funnier in a GAME !!! 

When 2 people argue.which one's the fool ?

I'm going to go watch Black Sails

So why don't you puff off to black sails immediately then why do you have to stay and tell us that what we are discussing is uninteresting? In all other creative fields tools is a vibrant subject you should listen to orchestra musicians! Not only have we to stand overeager moderators who interfere 10x as much as they aught to do but also all those who harp again and again how uninteresting we all are and how boring this and that discussion is.

Topic closing in 10...
9...

8...

I still sometimes post here or read some stuff, but honestly as I have shifted much of my rendering and interest to Dawn, I spend most of my forum time at Hivewire. If there were more new Dawn content or discussion on Dawn related things over here I would probably post here more often.

I don't think the 3D art is dying at any rate, just fewer people posting in the forum.

Quote - I still sometimes post here or read some stuff, but honestly as I have shifted much of my rendering and interest to Dawn, I spend most of my forum time at Hivewire. If there were more new Dawn content or discussion on Dawn related things over here I would probably post here more often.

I don't think the 3D art is dying at any rate, just fewer people posting in the forum.

A point which I made earlier. A lot of people who used to post here all the time are now posting else where because their interests are elsewhere.  I think the last time LROG Richard was here, was the last time the topic of Dawn came up. I don't use Genesis or Dawn, so I rarely post over at DAZ and almost never about Genesis and I don't think I've posted at Hivewire at all. Frankly, I'm fine with Poser and this forum.

Someone said it runs in cycles and that's a good point too.  This year I haven't spent ALL my time in Poser.  It's just healthier to balance it out a bit.  I'm a lot fresher and have a better perspective on it and I'm not getting so hung up on things.

Also, I tend to read and not post too just because I feel that generally folks kind of glaze over what I write or I'm just an outsider or whatnot.  shrug :)

Dawn

For me it is totally incomprehensible. It is like when "people in the blockhouse is about to be overrun by the enemy and they have let all hope gone". And then comes a figure out of the sky precisely what you have hoped for -something that makes everything easier and that is of a far better quality than anything they previously had. And that has this additional trait that everything you do can be brought over to Daz and vice versa for free. And what do people do? They reject it! (along with all else new)

Madre Mia. "Fallen by own behalf" is what it is called. So don't complain.

To be honest, I'm actually spending way more time in the forum than I probably should. I actually spend more time in Blender than I do in Poser. Some of you wouldn't actually believe how many things I've made for Roxie, Kate, Ben and Miki 4 that I actually HAVEN'T released for various reasons, being on this forum being just one of them.

Quote - Dawn

For me it is totally incomprehensible. It is like when "people in the blockhouse is about to be overrun by the enemy and they have let all hope gone". And then comes a figure out of the sky precisely what you have hoped for -something that makes everything easier and that is of a far better quality than anything they previously had. And that has this additional trait that everything you do can be brought over to Daz and vice versa for free. And what do people do? They reject it! (along with all else new)

Madre Mia. "Fallen by own behalf" is what it is called. So don't complain.

Much of the complaints about Dawn, I've heard before... about V4 when she first came out. People want instant gratification and if they don't get it then they whine and complain. (Oooh, fox just crossed my parking lot). And then, there are some people who just don't like any content that didn't come from DAZ.

Quote - I swear i just don't get this train of thought that people have who want Poser to become a Studio clone just so they can run Genesis natively. I ask once again, why not just use Studio if you honestly believe that Poser sucks so much? Also, while I can't defend the way Alyson2 looked, I don't think Roxie is ugly by any stretch of the imagination. Of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I used to think people were being facetious about that "Make Art" button, but I'm not so certain about that any more.

No, I'm not talking about running Genesis natively, not at all and I don't believe Poser sucks at all and to be honest, I did not say something like that. The only thing that imo sucks are the figures and I'm not the only one who believes that. It's very obvious people don't like them, they just aren't appealing. I don't want Genesis, I want good figures in Poser without being dependend upon DAZ. Poser simply needs good and competitive figures in order to be more appealing and perhaps even in order to survive in the long run. Appealing and good working figures that from the go have the support of a good number of vendors so these figures can be succesful and draw people to Poser..... not drive them away.

You can ignore the call for this in the community, just as SM is doing for years now, but it does have an effect on  Poser. Poser simply is content driven, so SM should make sure the content is appealing to the users and has the support of many vendors. That's why I mentioned Hivewire3D..... the seem to have pulled off what every other figure creator has failed to do, besides DAZ, broad support for the figure from the start. Thus making it appealing to the customer.

This has nothing to do with Genesis at all..... I don't want Genesis and DAZ doesn't want me to have it either, but SM needs to learn that the real power of Poser is in the content!

Quote - As for myself, it's that conversations have become so specialized, centering on and around figures that I don't use (Genesis, V4, and the very latests Posers), that there is little reason to join in!

Does anybody still use Posette, or Judy?  If not, then there is nothing for me to talk about!

I find the most interesting discussions to be about Poser itself, how the features work, using shaders to replicate various materials or to optimize rendering.  I don't follow figure-specific threads unless I am having a figure-specific problem.

I'm surprised that people abandon the older figures...  Sure, when a new figure comes along and I make a neat character with it I might neglect the older figures for a time...  But for populated scenes, and for variety, I never view any figure as obsolete.

I still strongly feel that the older content should be taken out of future Poser installations AND replaced with updated versions of said content.  It's not that Posette can't be made to look good alongside Vicki or Roxy, just that she doesn't ship in that form.  I'd love it if future versions of Poser shipped with updated versions of figures from versions 4-10.  Not talking any serious overhauls, just the same weightmapping, re-rigging, EZskin shaders etc. that any one of us with moderate experience could apply in an afternoon of work once we'd tracked down and downloaded all of the requisite files.  I'm sure many a user has loaded Posette and said "ewww, why would anyone ever use this figure today?" when in reality that figure still has plenty of uses.

Figures are like Hollywood stars...  Every year or so a fresh face comes along and every director wants him or her in their movies...  But when the newness wears off many of those stars simply fade away.  Those who don't fade away are the ones who are truly versatile and bring something unique to each performance.  Some are meant to lead, some are meant to support and others will forever get those character roles that have you thinking "I've seen this person before, but where?"   

Nobody does it better
Makes me feel sad for the rest
Nobody does it half as good as you
Vicky, you're the best...

:-)

Quote -
No, I'm not talking about running Genesis natively, not at all and I don't believe Poser sucks at all and to be honest, I did not say something like that. The only thing that imo sucks are the figures and I'm not the only one who believes that. It's very obvious people don't like them, they just aren't appealing. I don't want Genesis, I want good figures in Poser without being dependend upon DAZ. Poser simply needs good and competitive figures in order to be more appealing and perhaps even in order to survive in the long run. Appealing and good working figures that from the go have the support of a good number of vendors so these figures can be succesful and draw people to Poser..... not drive them away.

You can ignore the call for this in the community, just as SM is doing for years now, but it does have an effect on  Poser. Poser simply is content driven, so SM should make sure the content is appealing to the users and has the support of many vendors. That's why I mentioned Hivewire3D..... the seem to have pulled off what every other figure creator has failed to do, besides DAZ, broad support for the figure from the start. Thus making it appealing to the customer.

This has nothing to do with Genesis at all..... I don't want Genesis and DAZ doesn't want me to have it either, but SM needs to learn that the real power of Poser is in the content!

This is exactly the point I was getting at, while trying to word it carefully enough so as not to start yet another debate. 

Rex and Roxie are not competitive figures. 

Alyson and Ryan definitely are not competitive figures. 

Since Poser 6/7, the native figures have conistently been getting worse with each new release, not better. Actually, Jessi is a question mark, as its clear that her mesh was not built by the same artist(s). James and Miki however share nearly identical mesh design, a good 75% or more, so I'd wager they are by the same artist(s), or one copied the other and modified it as needed. But I don't know for sure so I can only guess on that. 

If it were possible to rewind about 8 years, James and Jessi (with Miki's mesh) should have become the faces of Poser. By now we should be seeing James/Jessi 5 or 6, with refined meshes and superior weightmapped rigging. But, nope. 

Content just seems to be an afterthought with SM, when everything about the software depends entirely on having quality content in order to make the software appealing to the majority of users. 

I can build my own figures and content, I don't need ready-made content to do what I need/want to do, with the exception of commission work. But most of my commssion work is not mass-marketable. It's very specific stuff, and I don't build to the guidelines/rules of the market places, I build to the individual client's request because that's whose paying me. 

But a big reason why I haven't started vending myself is because there's really no viable figures for me to build content for, asside from M4/V4, which is beginning to fade. It takes too long and as I see it, it would be a waste of time and energy to try supporting any of the native figures right now, because very few people use them. If I'm going to spend several weeks or more building a package then I want to make sure it's for a market that's going to buy it. I would build for Dawn, and have started a couple different projects for her, but she's just too damned ugly and awkward for me to stare at for extended periods. If it's a commission that's entirely different, but on my own, she's just not inspiring at all. And so far I've received zero commission requests for her. So at this point, my only logical avenue into vendor-hood is architecture/scenery, or seriously buckling down and learning DS so I can build for Genesis2, because that is where the money is right now.

I just don't see Poser's userbase expanding very much in the future without figures that are of equal or greater quality to what the competition offers, especially when the competition is free for anybody to use. When you're competing with free, you have to be better or you'll eventually sink. That's just the nature of any business. 

~Shane

Quote - No, I'm not talking about running Genesis natively, not at all and I don't believe Poser sucks at all and to be honest, I did not say something like that. The only thing that imo sucks are the figures and I'm not the only one who believes that. It's very obvious people don't like them, they just aren't appealing. I don't want Genesis, I want good figures in Poser without being dependend upon DAZ. Poser simply needs good and competitive figures in order to be more appealing and perhaps even in order to survive in the long run. Appealing and good working figures that from the go have the support of a good number of vendors so these figures can be succesful and draw people to Poser..... not drive them away.

You can ignore the call for this in the community, just as SM is doing for years now, but it does have an effect on  Poser. Poser simply is content driven, so SM should make sure the content is appealing to the users and has the support of many vendors. That's why I mentioned Hivewire3D..... the seem to have pulled off what every other figure creator has failed to do, besides DAZ, broad support for the figure from the start. Thus making it appealing to the customer.

This has nothing to do with Genesis at all..... I don't want Genesis and DAZ doesn't want me to have it either, but SM needs to learn that the real power of Poser is in the content!

See that's where we disagree. Poser ISN'T content driven at all. It's feature driven. SM is a SOFTWARE company, not Content.  The simple reason that DAZ is where they are today is not because they offered content. RDNA, Renderosity, and Poserworld were all offering content as well. What gave DAZ the edge was that they were the only one's offering, and pushing a particular figure(or set of figures). The other brokerages simply fell in line behind them. That's something that hasn't really happened again UNTIL Dawn came along, ironically enough, competing against the very figure tthat they themselves helped bring about. SM doesn't really do content and frankly, it doesn't really support the figures it does do.  But then, they've never done that. Once again, that's why DAZ even exists today. Look at Miki 4, one of the SM figures you say you like. Miki hasn't worked in a version of Studio since Miki 1. And SM has no plans that they've announced to ever make her work in Studio.

A few years back I was a vendor. but I quit once I saw I was wasting my time as a vendor for little return. so I carried on making content for my own usage... but about 3 years ago that came to an end when I fell and wrecked my right wrist.

in a few weeks, all going well, I'm under going an ulnar shortening operation that should hopefully allow me to model again.

that history aside, I will say, I have noticed a definate shift in the forums towards the hostile in the last year.

some will say they haven't .. but it's there.. I've even had some with someone telling me I should stop posting since I wasn't upto date on my poser version. after I had to prove to them I was a poser user in the first place!

that attitude is spreading. I see in this thread, no gallery=no input. why? there's little in my gallery since I can't model atm and there was little I could put up for some time since I did'nt want to post WIP's of product.

does that mean I have no say? no. I do have a say.

so lets drop that attitude and encourage ppl to post their work instead of putting them down.

also the lack of educational posts... in the old days, a new feature had a flurry of posts exploring it.

now... maybe one or 2 a couple of months later..... ppl are being to quick to dismiss features and not use explore them. for instance, the cloth room. apart from a few individuals, hardly touched. the hair room, I know about 2 ppl that have gone indepth with it. the mat room? only really BB has taken the time to teach it.

lets get in there and see what the stuff does.

also, I've considered starting a thread on photo realistic rendering in poser in the forum.

I've not bothered since I know that certain ppl will come in demanding to know why anyone would want to do this.. so.. not worth the arguements that will then ensue. it's not their area of interest. but they feel they have to put their opinion in, as if they have a gun to their head forcing them to.

Result? more hostility.

we have to learn to leave topics alone if we don't have an interest in them, rather than force our issues onto others. don't like the topic? start your own. your free to.

AmbientShade,

"but she's just too damned ugly and awkward for me to stare at"

My god, she is just a mesh that can be molded into anything. And this said of you who are supposed to be a pro and master of Maya and all!

I'll tell you what is the best way to vendorhood for you. Make the outfit for Dawn and transfer it to DS with a simple export/import. Well inside DS you can morph it into a V6 garment with a clone, which take 10 min to make (a onetime operation). All morphs and parameters setting will come through. Sell it and be happy. In this way you make cloth for V6 by working in Poser to 95%.

And, as a by-product, you also have a Dawn version which you can do what you want with.

Quote - A few years back I was a vendor. but I quit once I saw I was wasting my time as a vendor for little return. so I carried on making content for my own usage... but about 3 years ago that came to an end when I fell and wrecked my right wrist.

The one time I was a vendor here, 2005 I think, I maxed my 3-item limit for new vendors with just one character set for M3, in a relatively short period of time. I don't know if that limit still exists since I haven't looked into it recently. Personally I don't even think it was all that great. I barely knew what I was doing and I definitely wouldn't release the same item today. I'd be embarrassed to.

But, given that male characters have always been seen as having no demand for them, that was enough to prove to me that there was definitely decent money to be made as a vendor, so long as there's at least a moderate demand for what you're making. And it completely disproved that there's no demand for male content, at least for me it did.

There are several vendors who make their living doing just this, while many others barely make anything. It all comes down to what you're making and the quality of your work. 

Quote - also, I've considered starting a thread on photo realistic rendering in poser in the forum.

I've not bothered since I know that certain ppl will come in demanding to know why anyone would want to do this.. so.. not worth the arguements that will then ensue.

There's no reason not to start a thread on that. You can always just ignore those people, and should. Plenty of interest in photo realism for a thread on that to generate good hits and learn something from.

~Shane

I hope I didn't keep you from starting a thread on photorealistic rendering. While I have no real interest in it at the moment, that doesn't mean I wouldn't be interested in the topic. As long as we're on the subject though, I also see a disturbing trend. It seems if you disagree with someone's opinion in this forum, and you say so, people accuse you of being hostile, no matter how politely you disagree. Then people get mad and take a personal poke at you. When I disagree with someone, i usually spell out why i disagree, and trust me, it's nothing personal. I don't actually know any of you, you know. How in the world COULD it be personal?

Quote - My god, she is just a mesh that can be molded into anything. And this said of you who are supposed to be a pro and master of Maya and all!

I'll tell you what is the best way to vendorhood for you. Make the outfit for Dawn and transfer it to DS with a simple export/import. Well inside DS you can morph it into a V6 garment with a clone, which take 10 min to make (a onetime operation). All morphs and parameters setting will come through. Sell it and be happy. In this way you make cloth for V6 by working in Poser to 95%.

And, as a by-product, you also have a Dawn version which you can do what you want with.

I never claimed to be a pro or master of maya or anything else. sorry if you got that impression, as I've never implied anything of the sort, at least not deliberately. I'm no better than anyone else here. 

I'm just a modeler, that's all. My standards for mesh design are high because I study anatomy and topology for rigging, cause I have to in order to be at least a somewhat competent character artist some day. And yes I do expect perfection, at least from myself if not from anyone else.  

I don't own V5 or V6, and I barely know crap about DS, I'm still learning it in my spare time. I have Genesis and G2M/F with some face and body morphs. I don't have the clones. 

And yeah, sorry but I like working with at least somewhat attractive figures. I've tried working with Dawn, but she just reminds me of Princess Vespa's stunt double every time I look at her. I was working on a whole winter queen outfit and scene for her for the contest that was running, and had intended on putting the whole set up for sale after that contest was done, but I never finished it. Maybe I will at some point. 

~Shane

Good point EClark1894! ;)

I don't think AmbientShade is serious, he is just pulling our noses.
As if V4 default is something to write home about..

Tyra is beautiful with or without makeup in my opinion. I look at bone structure and shape before anything else.

Quote - As if V4 default is something to write home about..

lol true, but she still has a decent female shape by default. In order to get Dawn to look like a real female I'd have to break her hips and shoulders and rerig them since she doesn't have animatable joint centers. and then there's that cinderblock jaw that her morphs don't seem to fix in any examples I've seen so far. I've yet to see a render of her that didn't look like a transgendered woman. 

I like women who look like women with soft features and nice curves, maybe a bit on the athletic side, but not men in dresses, and I like guys that look like masculine rugged guys, not prissy queens or plucked metrosexuals. I guess I'm in the minority there. shrugs

~Shane

Even if it were true I would never let such a bagatelle hinder me. If there is obstacles those obstacles are obstacles for the competition too! If Dawn looks stops you from doing what you want to do, so be it.

i can appreciate dawn for what her creators are trying to do with her, and i think its great that other people are trying to support her. But for me personally, i would have to completely rebuild the figure in order to be satisfied with anything i created for her, and there's no point in doing that when i can't distribute it. for my personal work, there are other figures that are better designed and would take less work to get them where i would need them to be in order to be satisfied. and that's all I'm going to say about dawn, cause i'm sick of the constant arguments that always come up around here whenever dawn is mentioned. 

~Shane

The difference between you and me (one of the differences) is that you are into figures and I am into cloth, fashion. Otherwise I would claim that it is not arguments and fights that destroy forums and groups, that has always been a part of it and no obstacle to earning money. No, it is the hagging. nagging, whining and endless complaining that destroy the group. I would like to paraphrase "Those who can do the other teach" to "Those who can do the others complain". Eventually those who do tires of it and leaves, at that is what is happening to this forum.

Quote - See that's where we disagree. Poser ISN'T content driven at all. It's feature driven. SM is a SOFTWARE company, not Content.  The simple reason that DAZ is where they are today is not because they offered content. RDNA, Renderosity, and Poserworld were all offering content as well. What gave DAZ the edge was that they were the only one's offering, and pushing a particular figure(or set of figures). The other brokerages simply fell in line behind them. That's something that hasn't really happened again UNTIL Dawn came along, ironically enough, competing against the very figure tthat they themselves helped bring about. SM doesn't really do content and frankly, it doesn't really support the figures it does do.  But then, they've never done that. Once again, that's why DAZ even exists today. Look at Miki 4, one of the SM figures you say you like. Miki hasn't worked in a version of Studio since Miki 1. And SM has no plans that they've announced to ever make her work in Studio.

Poser not content driven? Well, let's close all the content stores and see how long Poser will survive :)

Well, Poser WAS here before the content stores were. I remember, I was here too.

It's one of the reasons why Poser comes with it's own content and figures.

Oh, I remember that as well, but Poser these days isn't what Poser used to be and there are now many much cheaper aids to help an artist in reaching their goals. I remember when Poser was just used for easily posing figures I could then use or better said copy by hand or trace after printing in my own comics. That's a long time ago tough and those times have gone..... for that there are much better alternatives.

No, without the content stores, I don't think Poser would survive too long in this day and age.

Just a note.... besides Windows I do think Poser is the only application I've used for decades :)

Quote - Dawn

For me it is totally incomprehensible. It is like when "people in the blockhouse is about to be overrun by the enemy and they have let all hope gone". And then comes a figure out of the sky precisely what you have hoped for -something that makes everything easier and that is of a far better quality than anything they previously had. And that has this additional trait that everything you do can be brought over to Daz and vice versa for free. And what do people do? They reject it! (along with all else new)

Madre Mia. "Fallen by own behalf" is what it is called. So don't complain

on many occasions I read your comments and I agree with what you write, but in  this occasion I disagree, I expected Dawn anxiously, but I disappointments immediately, the model seems to me honestly ugly and when I visit the store I see renders it not me 'm anxious to use it in the slightest (sadly I might add)

the argument that he did as V4 should evolve is not true,  as a figure of 10 years more modern than anything, at least you would expect is that errors that have not had the figure 10 years old.

when I see some render G2 made me want to try , when I see those models render made with dawn not feel the minimum desire to hold her in my libraries, ¿what really expect  to give my support and start buying things for her? since the figures were made at the same time, feel what I feel when I see a render G2 or with v4 10 years ago with Dawn

You could morph Roxie in to all the other female Poser characters.

aldebaran40,

I am perfectly willing to believe that I have lost all sense of discernment and style and should go and draw something old over me -if it wasn't for that it is not only Dawn. The old school rejects everything! So, the forensic evidence suggest another possibility, especially when their own home made figures never fails to be lifted to the sky.

Bethink the war between the west powers and China in nineteenth century. What was the cause of it? The Opium trade? That was just a pretext. The real reason was that China wanted to call the shots. It saw itself as the only civilized place on earth and all others should look up to it.

The people and moderators of this forum are entirely too sensitive so it becomes a matter of walking on eggshells, which nobody likes, because you might hurt someone's feelings or worse...you might offend the super awesome contributors who are above reproach.

So, this is what happens when super-politically correct senitive types scour the earth clean of passion and vitriol.  You get a ghost town.

Congratulations, hyper sensitive chat nazis.  Enjoy your empty forums.

To rub salt in the wound, it is becoming self-evident to more and more people that Poser is falling behind exponentially with each new release.  This has already been discussed.

There is another possiblity on the other end of the spectrum:  Once you have all the tools, it's no fun anymore.  Some users here have so many tools at their disposal, and have mastered them all, that there's no longer a challenge and it's taken for granted. 

Put all three of these things together and I wouldn't say hobby 3d is dead, but in stasis.

One more angle:  The Vast majority of Hobbyists aren't good enough or have enough mastery of the ancillary software or esoteric features of poser to go further with it.  Only the upper 10% can truly express themselves artistically with the tools given, and these people don't require a lot of Q-and-A.

Quote - aldebaran40,

I am perfectly willing to believe that I have lost all sense of discernment and style and should go and draw something old over me -if it wasn't for that it is not only Dawn. The old school rejects everything! So, the forensic evidence suggest another possibility, especially when their own home made figures never fails to be lifted to the sky.

anyone who has read my post you will notice that did not speak English and I communicated using translator, honestly vintorix I did not understand what you wanted to say

Quote - One more angle:  The Vast majority of Hobbyists aren't good enough or have enough mastery of the ancillary software or esoteric features of poser to go further with it.  Only the upper 10% can truly express themselves artistically with the tools given, and these people don't require a lot of Q-and-A.

good point (I think 10% is an over exaggerated value),It's why when say;
"You could morph Roxie in to all the other female characters"
We're missing the big picture of the situation

ps.not erase the thread I think the conversation is interesting

Sorry for that aldebaran40  

Roxie & V6 are both SubD meshes.
All that V6 does ,Roxie could do also.
So no ,I don't get no big picture of why Poser needs any other mesh.

But if you want a 3rd party mesh ,there's Dawn she can morph in to any thing also.
Even Roxie or V6.

So much angst over the activity in a forum!

Is 3D a dying hobby because the few people who like to talk about it a lot aren't quite as chatty?

Based on gallery posts here and at other forums, Daz and SM figures showing up in stock photography sites (and subsequently being used as illustrations in magazine articles), submissions to contests, posts on sites such as DeviantArt... I'd say, Not at all. People are rendering more than ever. Perhaps they're so busy rendering, in fact, that they don't have time, energy, or inclination to discuss what they're doing.

There are folks who like to experiment with the software to see how far they can take new and existing features. Peeps who like to tinker with models. People who like to use pre-made content primarily to create finished and polished renders. And people who like to discuss in detail what everyone else is doing. Just because the last category of folk isn't talking as much doesn't mean the others aren't humming along with unabated enthusiasm. :D

The people and moderators of this forum are entirely too sensitive... I'd say most folks are not adverse to a reasonable critique. The issue, and why the mods rightly crack down, is when that critism isn't reasonable. For example, you release a model of a car and someone posts a suggestion on how to improve the modeling of the wheels. Someone else says "those wheels are meh". Also reckon say it's not fair to say only a supposed top 10 elite really have the skills. Any good artist keeps on learning/trying out new things and sharing that with others.

  I'll agree with this, if only because I'm one of them.  I have several modeling projects going, which will exploit/showcase new Poser features.  And I've been working on hardware quite a bit.  I've scrounged up six used (dual H/T hex-core) server blades (Dell C1100s) and two surplus HP xw6600s, and they're networked together as a personal render farm.  They have both Vue's RenderCow and Poser Pro's Queue Manager installed on them.       I added the core count (in red) for each blade to the attached screen snip.  That's a lot of horsepower for Posering!  Galadriel is noticeably missing;  she's scattered in parts on the workbench.  Laptop Valkyrie is online, but she's not rendering;  I'm just surfing the interwebs with her.  Her two cores and eight GB wouldn't be able to keep up with the big girls.

seachnasaigh : Cool hardware,Are you rendering a video or a still ?