I haven't visited this forum in a long time and although I am a owner of Poser 4, I haven't updated to any models like Mike and Vic or Steph. The first question I had was does anyone have any incling when Poser 5 will be released and what its features will be? Furthermore, with all the extra models out there - do Poser users feel victimized (wallet wise) by DAZ3d to get any further use from Poser outside of the basics. In this regard, it costs nearly 40 - 50 bucks jsut to get a new model, then another 20-30 to clothe it, give it hair etc. How much will it all finally cost? Well over the price of just the program itself. Isn't it about time that Poser 5 is released with a new set of models and a full line of clothing/hair?

All I know is that CL is working on P5 and it will have alot of cool features. A new model set would be cool as well.

Actually, I certainly do not feel "victimized" by DAZ. Yes, I spent cash on Vicky, Mike2, and Steph (which BTW came for free w/ Mike2.) I spent even more today on hair... OTOH, step outside the relatively sheltered Poser world and go price some of the high-end 3D stuff out there, then come back and try to tell us how we allegedly got 'gouged'. For what DAZ provides, I believe it to be a damned good value, else I wouldn't have bought anything from 'em in the first place. Dude, also consider that P4 does nearly everything I want it to now, and that's a whole lot more than Microsoft Windows can deliver in the satisfaction department. I believe that P5 will be backwards-compatible with P4/P3 stuff... it only makes good business sense. /P

I firmly believe that most of the models are priced at the "cost of existance". What I mean by that is the artist, or Daz, has to expect a certain amount of sales, at a certain price for a model, to generate enough capital to exist. Otherwise the time spent to create them would have to be spent doing something else that would generate as much money. If you are willing to pay my rent, utilities, food, hardware and software expenses and other nice things that cost money from day to day, then I will sit home spending hours per day make all the free models you want. =)

Jeez. Man, DAZ prices are quite reasonable, for what you get, which is always good. Have a look at some of the prices Zygote wants for some of those human models, which I assume are "boned" and created for Lightwave/max, etc. I think Zygote even sells a simple screwdriver model that they want like 35 bucks for....

Do I feel victimized by DAZ selling high-quality figures for forty to fifty dollars? Not when I consider the alternatives.

Here's the latest (February 7th) official word on Poser 5:
Link to thread

I just spent 70 bucks at DAZ, another 35 at Runtime DNA and another 30 here at the Rosity store in the past WEEK (thankfully to taxes coming back) Yeah, the models and stuff is expensive, but when you think of all the expanded capabilities that these things give you (and if you can get stuff on sale like the Mike/Steph sale (C'mon roughly 24 bucks for TWO quality models, 1 of which can take most Vicki stuff...not a bad deal at all) No, I don't feel victimized by DAZ at all (I do feel victimized by my job for only paying minimum wage though LOL) I would definitly recommend upgrading to anyone who asked just for the quality and versitility. When you think of other options, spending a few bucks just makes sense. That's just my opinion though.

Yipe, Little Dragon! I followed that link you posted... I'm going to keep buying stuff from Daz.

LOL Yeah, Daz is a lot cheaper for 3d models than a lot of other 3d model types. I feel pretty lucky poser isn't a more expensive hobby than it is. :o)

Daz is the BEST model company out there. If anyone is getting gouged by the prices, it is them. Also, the word "victimized" is wrong, way wrong - (1. Daz isn't forcing anyone to buy their models. 2. Daz isn't stopping anyone else from creating a lifelike human model. 3. Daz has given away so much free stuff 4. Mike and Vicky are relatively cheap, and have been such a blessing from God, as those two models are UNRIVALED - thus, they could probably sell Mike and Vicky 2 for about 100.00 each, and still get many sales, and in the long run would be worth it (not that I want them to raise the price!) 5. Their price is relatively cheap. Do like I did, don't buy it all at once, just "build" your library, 1. Buy Mike 2, and get Stephanie (which will fill your need for real female, and save you money that you won't have to spend on Vicky immediately) 6. If you spend 40 dollars, you'll GET TWO MODELS, BOTH HIGH QUALITY (I HIGHLY HIGHLY RECOMMEND THIS NOW. The P5 models most likely will NOT rival Mike, Steph and Vicky. This is the best buy on the NET, Mike 2 and you get Steph for free. ben

Price gouging? You've got to be kidding! The quality of the models we are getting from DAZ could easily net them 10 times what they are charging us if they went to another platform. The model content that came with Poser was much better than I would have expected for a 3D package in it's price range. Then when I add DAZ's models to it I have a package still very cheap in the world of 3D applications which can produce images of human beings that I could only dream about before. Sure the big packages have better light handling and rendering and many more features, but you pay for it and in the end I either have to create a human figure from scratch (Way beyond my current skill level) or spend a lot of money and by one. Just a few minutes in the Poser gallery here and you can see the amazing quality of images that can be produced from this package and these models. Sorry, about that, don't trip over my soapbox.:)

Do you feel victimized because now that you've bought your car you have to fill the tank with gas all the time? How about the stupid CD player that won't work unless you get some cds to play in it? Poser is a bit different in that you don't have to add anything else. But like anything, if you want more you'll probably have to pay more. So how much will it cost in the end? Just exactly as much as you allow it to cost. Or even more appropriate, would you feel victimized by a company because they sell a computer for $35 when most of their competition charges $800-$1,800 for something quite similar? That pretty well describes DAZ although they sell models, not computers. If they make anyone feel victimized it is probably their competition. - Jack

If you wanna play, you gotta pay. Curious Labs gives plenty of value for their software and so does DAZ. If you want more than the basic models, you can't expect them for nothing. I understand that many people can't afford 'the extras'.. but that is not the fault of DAZ or Curious Labs.

I blanched at the cost of Vicki and Mike at first too but you have to look at the whole picture. Daz gives away a free model every week for crying out loud. If that alone doesn't justify purchasing from them I don't know what does.

Compare it to Barbie dolls. (sorry guys) I was at Toys R Us with my 3 year old looking for Barbie stuff. One of the "theme" dolls can go for up to $50! As I was looking at all the packages of clothing I was flashing back to Renderosity, Run DNA and Daz's site. :-) Then there's Barbies pool, Barbies Townhouse, Car, Ken doll, Kelly doll, etc. Poser's not much different. ;-)

Kendra, If you look at it, Vicky is pretty much a digital Barbie doll, and Mike is a virtual He-Man. And who is "Kelly"?! And what time does Transformers come on during Saturday morning? ben

"Victimize" is really unfair I think. Poser, like many hobbies can be expensive. I personally think golfing fees are high but I know if cost alot to run a golf course. If a business charges too little they can just as easily drive themselves out of business as quickly as charging too much. If or when the time comes where I am not able to make a decent living making Poser product, I will stop and change careers. If a business charges too little they can just as easily drive themselves out of business as quickly as charging too much. And cheaper does not ensure higher sales despite the fact it would make sense that it would. I would say that Poser prices right now are a low as they can get without putting Poser comapnies into the red. Anton

Also, in Capitalism, anyone can charge what they want. If they stick a gun to your head, and force you to pay, then that's bad. Plus, socialism is evil. Voluntary giving is good though! Ben MessianicArt.com

hahaha, i bet he had no idea what he would be starting : )

Well TalmidBen what is socialism. You must be a Yank making a dumb remark like that.

I'm a staunch fan of DAZ. I've gotten nothing but the best customer service from them. They're staff are great to deal with when you have a problem. And their prices are incredibly low compared to other places. Go check the standard human figures at Zygote. They're basically the same as the stock Poser 3 and 4 figures, but for other programs like 3D Max and they charge two to three times as much for each one. Other places charge even more. One place (sorry, I forget the name of the place, but it's very well known) offered a year or so ago a boxy little man, made of cubes, and they were charging something like $500 for it. Sheesh! What a rip-off. So, no, I don't feel victimized at all by DAZ. They're a great company. I'll continue to do business with them as long as they exist. Melanie

Yeah, ditto on what a lot of people say here. In another world, not too far away from Daz, you can pay like 2 grand for an airplane model. I don't feel ripped off.

"Kendra,
If you look at it, Vicky is pretty much a digital Barbie doll, and Mike is a virtual He-Man. And who is "Kelly"?!"

Yep. And Kelly is the little sister. (I think) Kelly is the Stephanie, only younger.

"And what time does Transformers come on during Saturday morning?"

Couldn't tell you. We only watch SpongeBob Squarepants and Rugrats. :-)

I think the prices at daz is just right. Go to some of the other places that sell 3d models and you will rethink your comment. I've seen some plain 3d models selling for 50 to hundreds of dollars. And they are nowhere near as good as daz stuff.

Victimize? :chuckles: that really doesn't even merit a responce. Anz

Daz is a business that offers products made for use in Poser. I find many of their products to be reasonably priced, of excellent quality, and useful for my own artwork so I buy them. They have others that I don't feel are worth their asking price or that I have no real use for so I don't buy those. Same thing goes for stuff in the marketplace here, at runtimedna.com, mecom4d.com, etc. Welcome to a market economy!

Daz has awesome things, but if you don't want to spend a fortune, just stick with basics..for example you could get Mike2 who comes with Stephanie so you wouldn't have to purchase Vicky right away..and there are tons of great free stuff to get you started. The P4 people really can't compare to daz people, it is a good investment for sure, they will make your whole poser experience much more enjoyable....Hope that helps answer your question

Of course, you dont have to spend anything. You could make your own. Then, after youve spent several hundred hours learning how, making mistakes, re-doing, testing and re-testing, see if $20 for Victoria 1 seems like "gouging" B) It took me ages to make a texture for Victoria. It isnt good enough to sell and couldnt recoup the man-hour costs even if I did. When you consider the cost of Poser items here and at DAZ we are damn lucky. A Poser figure at Turbosquid is on offer at $700+, that is more "real world" than we see here. Yes, the costs mount up, but they do in any hobby. Isn`t it possible that Poser 5 may have Victoria and Michael as the base figures, the same people made them and the "Dorks".

Boy, what a can of worms this thread turned out to be! I think this guy got more than he bargained for..... ALL the responses here were positive!! (to DAZ) Hey, DAZ people, reading this thread (I know you do, I know you keep a check on what's going on round the forums) - be proud - and know that we think you guys are great! I buy stuff here at R'osity and from DAZ at least once a month - I wait until the urge is so strong I can't LIVE without that hair/clothing/util/face/tex a second longer, gotta have it, gotta have it! Feels like Xmas every time, I tell you. :] FishNose P.S. - Of course, the thread might have been started by someone at DAZ pretending to be a troublemaker, just to see what response it gave.... :]

Ripped off? Victimized?? Gouged??? What planet is this guy from? ::sheesh:: I've been in the games industry for 15 years, and you don't see model prices as reasonable as these anywhere else. Furthermore, you don't get customer service like they offer anywhere else either. The folks at DAZ are hard-working and friendly, they want to please us, and they try hard to keep prices within our budgets. I'd suggest that Harbinger look at the costs of Maya models or Max models and then come back and say nice things about DAZ and Poser models. Carolly

I'll distract em' while you sneek out the back door quietly. ScottA

I think that we should give people a chance here. I don't know Harbinger. He's probably new to 3D and hasn't had the chance to compare prices with other places. I've seen this thread numerous times through the years here in all the forums and it's usually because these folks just haven't seen how expensive the other places are. If that's the case, then $50 for a screen full of pixels can seem pretty steep. I think we should show a little patience with people who haven't gotten completely acquainted with the 3D environment yet. Name calling and insults or scoldings aren't really fair if they just don't know how things are. Just my two cents' worth. Melanie ** going back now to render some more **

"Well TalmidBen what is socialism.You must be a Yank making a dumb remark like that." What?! I'm a Texan, and SOCIALISM IS PURE EVIL. In theory, it supposedly good, but in REALITY (which socialists don't live in) it rewards the lazy, punishes the succesful, and is maintained by pure propaganda. Even the world's former leading socialist, Mikhail Gorbachev, admitted this! Socialism is stupid, immoral, and evil, period. Ben MessianicArt.com

Lets try to keep this Poser related folks. ScottA

Oh, sorry. My bad!

Wow - great thread guys - a lot of great feedback on my Q. Sorry about the loaded question but I'm really glad to see that people are happy with the price/value of DAZ stuff and Poser as a whole. Thanks for your input.