Bruce,

Up until you started posting I do not believe it was common knowledge that this area currently does not have a full time mod (I certainly did not know). There are 2 mods and 5 coordinators listed at the top of the page. That gives the appearance that people are "on the job" so to speak.

As I have repeatedly said I don't care either way whether the pictures stay or go. I don't find any of them personally offensive and most of them were quite well done, IMO. The point I and I think a few others are trying to make is the uneven handling of situations.

As far as Dialyn, I do not care whether she is a member or a mod or the site owner. I don't care for what I feel like is an intentional mudding of the waters. That is my right. If I leave it certainly won't be only because of her post.

There are two distinct issues as I see them.

One being the uneven handling of the TOS. That is the one that I personally have issue with.

The other being that people will complain about things they find personally offensive to them and that is what I think Dialyn is addressing, but she is doing it in such a way as to try and confuse the two issues, IMO.

I haven't seen anything here (yet) that I find personally offensive. I don't have a problem with nudity, bondage, fetish gear, same sex relationships etc. I am an adult. If I don't like something I certainly realize that I am free simply not to click on the image or thread that might contain something that does not interest me.

I am not so presumptous to assume that just because it is something I do not wish to view I should tell others that they are not free to view it if they so choose.

I expect to see a certain amount of nudity at this or any other related site. The models don't come fully clothed so it makes sense there is going to be a certain amount of nudity when people ask questions about different problems they have etc. In the galleries I certainly expect to see quite a lot of nudity. If it bothered me I would filter or simply not look at those images which might offend my sensablities.

That is a completely seperate issue than the one I and others are addressing, IMO and I wish people would stop trying to make them the same one because they are not.

I would like to thank you for stepping up and trying to help this forum when it sounds like you have a lot on your plate already. It seems that at least one coordinator has time to make snide remarks and lock threads down rather than stepping up and address the issues in the forum that he is supposed to be moderating. If, instead, he had come forward and made a statement that there was currently no mod for this forum or that matters were being looked into that would likely have gone a ways toward diffusing the situations.

Thank you again for taking time to actually address my specific post vs just trying to sweep what I have said under the rug like it was never said.

Towal

From the TOS:
No Explicit sexual content [No manipulation of breasts/nipples/ no sexual situations/ no implied sexual acts/ no extreme or explicit S&M bondage situations/ no lewd or obscene sexual references]

Maybe I am just odd, but I do not hang out naked with my women friends, either resting my hand on their naked breast or they resting their hand on mine as a normal daily activity. Nor do I rest my hand on my friends naked or nearly naked rears in the course of my normal activity.

http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=566121&Start=37&Sectionid=1&filter_genre_id=4&WhatsNew=Yes

So it's ok for a woman to touch another woman's breast or for women to touch each others butts, but it's not ok for a guy to have his hands near his own genitals? It's not a sexual situation for a woman to touch another's breast or butt? I guess I am not in the norm because I would consider another woman touching my breasts as being a sexual situation.

Dark Elegance posted a picture when she says the mods say do not violate the TOS. I have posted links to 8 pics (none of which have been addressed by anyone, let alone mods...oh I take that back. Phantast asked in another thread if I wanted those pictures deleted, but doesn't mention they were actually viewed.)

After reading Dialyn's post making light of the situation and in my opinion not even addressing the same thing. As I said on another thread I think there are 2 distinct issues which either people don't understand or they do and are purposely trying to cloud one of them I am about done.

I have nearly $500 worth of stuff in my wishlist that I am < > this close to deleting along with my gallery and just not come here anymore. I'm sure no one will miss me, but at least I will feel like I'm putting my money where my mouth is so to speak and not condoning actions that I think are wrong.

Towal

Ah..that is a good point about the marketing. I had not thought of that. Ok well I will just not use any items purchased at Rosity on images I post other than here and then I don't have to credit them. I am not buying anything from the MP anymore for a while anyway for several reasons. People will either get it or the won't...I'm starting to lean to won't unfortunately. I will give it a while and see what happens, because I like it here and I like the people here, but if things continue as they are now then I will simply take down my gallery and move to another site that applies their TOS evenly. Towal

Phantast: Nope. I don't care one way or the other whether the pictures are there or not. I used them to illustrate the point. Actually I think most of them were quite good.

I agree that there are a TON of pictures in the gallery and it would be nearly impossible to catch every picture that violates the TOS unless there is someone that does NOTHING but hit refresh on the gallery page and view every image.

That being said, for me there were 41 pages of 18 thumbs when I filtered the gallery for Poser/Romance (I picked romance because it was likely to yield the most pictures that violate the TOS IMO). I found on RANDOM inspection (ie: I was not clicking every thumb on those 3 pages) 6 pictures that appear to violate the TOS based on comments made by moderators on the thread that was locked.

That seems like a high number to me. I wonder how many there would be if I took the time to look at every picture on those 41 pages.

Two of the pictures were of something that was SPECIFICALLY mentioned by a moderator as being a TOS violation (another touching a second's body parts). Despite my mentioning that and providing a link no moderators, who we KNOW are watching these threads made any comment whatsoever. The thread was simply locked for being "Off Topic".

Whether Melory's picture was removed because it was 2 men or not it was removed and there are other pictures in the gallery that are far more sexually suggestive and do violate the TOS (ie: a woman having her hand clearly on another woman's breast and a man licking/kissing a woman's chest). It is a very uneven application.

However, when you add that to the fact that people say and link to rendererotica (incluing a number of times in the archives...I checked) and that is ok, but the mention of GPA causes an uproar. It starts adding up. Again it might be coincidence, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck a lot of people are going to think it's a duck.

I also find the MP issue to be incredibly hypocritical. I thought so before when you can buy bondage and fetish gear and genitals (none of which I have a problem with personally, btw.) which if used for an image posted here would be a violation of the TOS, but when I found an item that specifically says it has no thumbnail because the item in question violates the TOS that put me over the edge. If the item is so "bad" you can't even post a preview of it what are they doing allowing it to be sold in the MP? That is the ultimate in hypocrasy!

Towal

I'm really confused I guess. Why is it so hard for people to understand that the arguements are not about anything except the very uneven, hypocritial enforcement of the TOS?

None of the things you posted about are violations of the TOS as far as I can tell Dialyn. There are two seperate issues being discussed here and they seem to be getting confused.

One topic which appears to be what Dialyn is addressing is that people complain because they personally don't like something or find it offensive. I agree that there is not really much that can be done about that. People like what they like and don't like what they don't like and nothing anyone says is likely going to make them change their mind on topics like that.

The other issue, which is the one that people are at least attempting to show here is that the TOS is applied unevenly and arbitrarily.

IF an image violates the TOS it should be pulled from the gallery no matter the theme of the picture. Hetero, gay, animal, humanoid, alien...doesn't matter if it violates the TOS is should be pulled. That is NOT what is happening, however and that is what people are protesting.

I won't even go into the issue that there is a ton of stuff in the MP that would violate the TOS even it was used in an image here....well maybe just one example.

I did notice when I was doing searches yesterday (see my post in the locked thread) that one of the items in the MP actually has no preview image and it states the reason for having no image is that the item violates the TOS. WTF???????????? If the item violates the TOS such that a preview of it could not even be shown in the MP it would stand to reason that you couldn't use it in images here either. If that doesn't show that the TOS is enforced to benefit the earning of money I'm not sure what does.

If you look at my post on the other thread in only 3 pages not even looking at every picture, just picking thumbs that I suspected might yield what I was looking for I found 6 pictures that were clearly violations of the TOS based on comments made by Thomas (a moderator for this forum).

None of that was even addressed..the thread was simply locked and once again the points were glossed over as though they were never made. Even though the posts were, in fact, on topic for the thread it was closed because it was "off topic" for the thread (or at least that is the way it sounded..he didn't say off topic for the forum).

Towal

In the previous thread that got locked. I gave links to 6 pictures in the gallery that were clearly a violation of the ToS based on the criteria posted by Thomas and another mod..sorry I have forgotten the name.

One of them was a man licking or maybe kissing (definately touching) a woman's chest. One was of two women one of whom very plainly had her hand touching the other woman's breast.

If the pic of Melory's that was removed is a ToS violation (which btw, I did not think it was but I only saw the censored version) then certainly at least those 2 of the 6 I posted should be taken down as violations.

The others were not as um..sexually charged, but certainly fell in the rather nebulous area of "implied sexual situations" if the picture that Melory did fell within that area as well.

Personally, I am not offended nor do I have a problem with any of the pictures. Frankly I find the pictures of Vicky's with gargantuan inhumanely large breasts much more offensive, but they don't violate anything but taste. I am, however, offended by the clear double standards and hypocrisy that is shown at this site.

If people stay quiet nothing will change. I'm fairly certain nothing will change anyway though because people can't understand that it's OK to bring up problems and not sweep them under the rug. I will give it a while longer and if it doesn't improve, I will simply delete my wishlist, delete my gallery and find a new poser home which respects it's members enough to enforce it's ToS uniformly.

If there is something I want to buy from a merchant here before I go I will IM them and find out if I can buy it at another store or from them privately. If not, they will lose the sale which is unfortunate because it's not their fault that R'osity is not listening to at least a portion of it's customers.

Towal

I still need to play around with this stuff to actually get the hang of it, but I think this is a pretty good improvement over the first one I posted.

Thank you again :)

Towal

This is infinately better on Koshini I think. Still need to work on the ball some.

What is the difference between a shadow lite cam and a shadow cam lite?

In this one I also made all the parts of the room that aren't visible in the actual render hidden as well. I should also turn off the shadows on the wall and floor I think is what you are saying spanki?

I don't think most of the people voicing opinions on this topic are trying to get things done only their way. They are voicing their displeasure at the rampant hypocrisy.

I personally do not care what the rules are. It's their house and they can make the rules. That being said, the rules should be applied uniformally across the board, not in an arbitrary fashion.

If X is wrong then it is wrong. Being a big money maker does not suddenly make X right. Being geared toward a particular lifestyle over another does not suddenly make X right. If X is wrong then it is wrong period and anyone violating X should be dealt with in the same manner.

There have been several threads recently on this or similar topics and rather than actually addressing any of the quite valid points that are being brought up there is a knee jerk reaction to close the discussion down.

I thought DeeMarie was going to come through on one of them, but in the end she simply did what was easy and locked the thread vs addressing any of the points that were made. It's as though the points made were never even stated they were not acknoweldged in any way.

I have not been a member of this community for very long, but even in the short time I have been here I can tell that many people here have been here for a very long time. Those people are now balking at the rampant and obvious hypocrisy because they love this community. They have been here for years. They have helped people, they have made friends, they have laughed and cried with people here. I would bet that some people here have met each other in real life or they have communications outside this board, etc.

This type of attitude is what makes communities like this a success. They are speaking up because they CARE what happens to the community and the members here.

I suspect that if rules were enforced universally rather than arbitrairly that the amount of bitching would decrease dramatically. People are still going to bitch about something because that is what people do, but it won't be about the rules if they are enforced equally for everyone.

This is their house and they can do what they want. I really don't have a problem with the rules or I wouldn't be here. I would find some place I felt was a better fit with like minded people and I would go there. What I do have a problem with is the fact that even in the short time I have been here I can tell there is a ton of variation in how the rules are enforced or not enforced as the case may be.

The PTB need to realize that while it is their house, in this case, it's success depends on a whole lot of company. If you treat your company with complete disregard then the odds are eventually those folks are going to stop coming by to visit.

You could have the best house in the world, but if no one is stopping by for a coffee and a talk it doesn't really matter anymore does it?

Towal

I just did a quick search on R'erotica in the formum here and a number of hits came up, including one that specifically asks where and what is it in the title and the second post provides a link directly to it.

For that matter renderosity is here I learned about that particular board and many others when I first started reading the board here (not the thread I mention above, btw).

I'm all for rules, but not when they are arbitrarily applied.

On another note I think that both Deb and DeeMarie have responded professionally on this thread even though I don't particularly agree with the action that was taken in this matter. I must say that I felt that Asher's response to a similar question about the thread in the Community Center was flip and inappropriate for a Moderator to make and leaves me with the feeling, yet again, that it's time to find a new place to read about poser before everyone that is helpful here migrates to some place else :(

I agree, however that discussion should take place BEFORE the action is taken. If you are still discussing the action after you made the decision then something is quite wrong, IMO.

You did not answer my question on why the offending post which was only one of many posts on that thread could not have been deleted vs deleting the whole thread.

As far as I can tell Jim did nothing that violated the ToS in his original post. At the time I read the thread there were a number of posts on it and only one of those contained a link which you say was a violation of the ToS. Why "punish" Jim and all the people that responded within the terms of the ToS for the violation made by one person?

People delete individual posts all the time so it certainly would be within moderator powers to delete individual posts rather than having a knee jerk reaction and deleting the whole thread.

You are debating amongst yourselves whether the action you took was appropriate? If you can't stand behind your decisions that would seem to imply you know the action taken was likely not the correct one. If you are second guessing your own actions how can you expect members of the community to have faith in you/your actions?

Since there is an ability to delete individual posts why not delete the ONE post in the thread that had the link (Jim's original post did NOT contain a link) and leave the rest of the thread intact.

I know I haven't been a member of this community long, but in the time I have been I have seen some fairly disturbing things. I'm beginning to really think that maybe rendervisions or some other board is the place to be :(

Thanks for the replies. I ended up getting V2 for about $18 between the PC discount and a coupon I had. From the looking around I have done it seems like there is enough out there that it will be worth it. I grabbed several nice freebies for her so I can give her a whirl.

This is probably a stupid question, but I won't know unless I ask I guess (and it won't be the first time I've asked the obvious).

You can name a folder anything you want? By that I mean you can just change the folder name and as long as you correct the path (I use correct reference) so poser knows where to look for the item it will work?

I have left everything in the folders that they extract to up to this point because I am not very comfortable with the program/file structure yet, but as my library gets larger I am finding it harder and harder to find items, remember where I got freebies, and find things that have obscure names that are nothing like what the item is.

Thanks for the quick reply :) Off to spend $30 so I can buy a $5 item here /sigh