Mine would be more realistic moving body parts, where you cant bend the elbow 180 degrees! And an option to turn it on or off. -James

Hmmm...I don't havethe body morphs as of yet, so I don't know if this is possible, but I'd like to be able to have "soft" nipples and not have it to where V3's always chilly. Also, I'd like the new model to be able to bend each toe separately...and it would be nice to be able to have a cornea the fit over the entire eyeball, so you could have a really neat reflection...hmm...I think that's all with the exception of more bendable joints...:P Donna

I'd want them to actually "improve" V3 without forcing the re-purchase of all new clothing and hair items for a change.

I'd like to see more realistic shoulders and breasts. She has this weird deformity that I can't put my finger on, exactly, but it seems like even with cleavage etc morphs(but without huge-boob morphs!) her breasts are like 6 inches apart. The shoulders would be much improved by just moving the whole armpit further down. And I agree that an improvement without ALL new clothing and morphs would be very nice. But if they did things that way, Daz wouldn't make nearly as much money. :/

Definitely and hopefully not changes that affect all of the content for V3! There are literally tens of thousands of products for V3. V4 would be a complete waste of time if Daz neglected to provide backward compatability. In other words, a V4 that makes all of my V3 content useless is a V4 they won't sell...let Daz contemplate that deeply.

Do something about the atrophied limbs, e.g. the ragdoll arms and the macaroni shoulders.

Improved shoulder joints (maybe JCM): when she holds her arms up, there's these unseemly bulges on the sides of her ribcage, just below the armpits. Improved elbow joints to get rid of that "bent straw" look. Improved knee joints (add a kneecap bone?) Improved hip joints: when Vicki bends her leg forward or inward, parts of the hip get covered by the buttocks, which looks horrible unless she's wearing a skirt. Improved buttocks: when V3 bends over her buttocks suddenly grow incredibly fat. Probably JCM can be used to improve. Improved thigh-buttock joints: get rid of that unnatural broken look when Vicki lifts her leg. More realistic body proportions, shorter torso. Overall length down from 6' to 5'5" Replacable conforming heads, each head designated for a specific race. I'd suggest a Caucasian head, an Asian head, an African head. Each head with their own set of morphs. A decent set of genitals (or should it be called an indecent set?), preferably using geometry swapping (see P5 Judy). Low-poly and hi-poly versions.

I personally would like to see a whole new mesh, modeled in a non-T poses, with better shoulders, a better face, and no derivative of the unimesh. Sorry, but the current market is too saturated and few products actually take advantage of V3's morphs. It would be nice to see a remarkable evolution this time...

The one thing I don't like about V3 is that she tends to look cross-eyed. Otherwise I like the figure the way she is.

Right now the "Ideal" Poser figure would have a body that incorporates all of Antons improved joint parameter setup and had switchable geometry heads where every head had its own matching set of expression morphs. It would be offered in a lo-rez (~30.000) poly and hi-rez(~70.000) poly version. (Personally Id even prefer ~20.000 and ~40.000 polys) There would also a "legacy" version using V3 or V3RRs body to make her use V3 clothing. (Like V3V2 could uses V2 clothing and V2P4 could use Posettes) Why switchable geometry heads ? Because it seems to be easier to make REALLY different heads by building the geometry from the ground up than morphing a given mesh into another shape. But most important are custom made impression morphs for every head, so each head can be made REALLY different without breaking the given set of expression morphs. (And let a completey different artist sculp the heads to get away of the "Vicky-look") Also important is that DAZ doesnt get cought in the polygon trap. 100.000 poly figures are just wasting precious resources. 70.000 for hi-rez is more than plenty. eFrontier couldnt "outbend" the Unimesh folks, so they wanted to "outpoly" them. And failed miserably. ApolloMaximus set the new benchmark in Poser bending, so thats the way to go. Forget about all the complicated joint controlled morphs and just copy Antons rig for Vicky4. (Of course the body should be of all original geometry, but I assume a certain rigging STYLE cannot be copyrighted ?) stahlratte

"Definitely and hopefully not changes that affect all of the content for V3! There are literally tens of thousands of products for V3. V4 would be a complete waste of time if Daz neglected to provide backward compatability. In other words, a V4 that makes all of my V3 content useless is a V4 they won't sell...let Daz contemplate that deeply." Hmmm. Will Daz need to consider backwards compatibility with V3 indefinitely?? Eventually they'll have to break away from that figure if they want to progress their realistic human models. "I personally would like to see a whole new mesh, modeled in a non-T poses, with better shoulders, a better face, and no derivative of the unimesh. Sorry, but the current market is too saturated and few products actually take advantage of V3's morphs. It would be nice to see a remarkable evolution this time.." I agree with this.

A deal with EF to make her work in the Face Room would be nice. With all of the stuff out there, if she were to be backward compatable, and Face Room ready, I would buy her in a heartbeat.

Breast ofcourse- and morphs for head shape (not face shape), depth ect...

You know, when I was setting up Glamorous Jessi I did a lot of thinking about V3, and how she could be improved on, and how she can't be improved on. Anton (aparently) has gotten Max to bend pretty well, without using any JCM assist, but I wasn't able to do that- to me, better bending means Joint-Controled morphs assisting the bend, and creating realist effects for that bend. Best I could do was lay out the JCM in a different, hopefully more effective manner. So what I'm saying if if you want better bending your going to have to do what I did, change the joints, change the JCM (or add it, stock Jessi had none, JG has more than V3). Once you do this you throw away the use of existing conforming clothing, pretty much. Plus if you go to more JCM you get a figure that is even harder to make conforming clothing work properly on, driving up the time (and cost) of creating it. As to mesh density, I think V3 is about optimal given the current state of computer hardware. She was a little high-res when she was new, but computers have sort of caughtup. I don't see higher poly count as being an improvement in any way other tahn "my figure is higher res than yours" arguments, anyway. A lower res head might be useful once in awhile, maybe, but that maens two sets of morphs. (BTW, Glamorous Jess does come in a medium res and high res version) As to non-T poses, yeah, she might bend better with taht as astarting point, but how the heck are you going to make clothing for a figure like that? Think about it! So, waht I'm saying is V4, just say no for now. ;-)

Hmmm. Will Daz need to consider backwards compatibility with V3 indefinitely?? Eventually they'll have to break away from that figure if they want to progress their realistic human models. Indefinitely as into the NEXT version? LOLAM. But what I'm saying is that thousands of people have invested hundreds, even thousands of dollars, into V3 and all of the extras and upgrades and content. Would Daz be willing to offer extreme deals on not only upgrading from V3 to V4, but also to all of the content as it arrives? Or will they offer a means to update V3 content, where possible, for V4 use (reasonably or free)? I'm not going to upgrade and then spend another $1000+ to get back the same content that I already own for V3! Again, WW would help ease this for clothing, but not for characters, morph packs, poses, textures, texture sets, and so on.

Conversion utilities are definitely needed. We already have Universal Texture Converter. It's pretty usable IMO, the resulting MAT files need some tweaking - I think that can be automated too. So a V4 plugin for UTC would take care of lots of the texturing problems. Poses is another matter. I often use poses that are not designed for the figure, then again, I NEVER use poses out of the box. I always tweak. Morphs - well I found that the morphs on V2 closely match the same morphs on V3. Not exactly, of course. So as long as the morphs are identically named, the morph settings will work. The injections are another matter. Actually, the way most things are set up now - the injections and dial settings in one pose file - are not to my liking. I'd prefer to see separate INJ poses containing the readScript lines and MOR poses containing the dial settings. That way the MOR poses are usable for other characters too - did someone mention clothing? Again, it wouldn't be too difficult to write a simple utility that splits the readScripts from the dial settings. If V4 is going to have a different base body shape, then a V3-V4 morphing manikin could be a very useful asset. I've used the free V2-V3 morphing manikin (forgot where I got her, but it's a freebie) with The Tailor to convert some V2 clothes to V3 clothes. By applying a stripped V3 CR2 I was able to make them fit. And I haven't even mentioned Wardrobe Wizard yet. The conversion tools are there, for the most part. Just some new plugins and it'll work.

What would I want, hmmmmm, arms and legs that bend properly. I hate it when you try to bend the leg and suddenly there's a huge hump on the top. She looks like a camel! The same with trying to bend her arms, especially when you want the arms above her head. And what would be really cool is if she could be morphed to a variety of sizes, A3 size and Stephanie size, so that one could utilize more of neat outfits out there without having to buy each and every character.

I'd love to see the figure bend over without the buttocks exploding. I have faith considering they did a pretty good job with Laura and SP3. I'd also like to see more versatile and logical face morphs. Things like, make the eyes thinner or fatter, wider or taller. Morphs to make the chin wider or thinner, the mandible go up or down. More nose morphs... really basic stuff that I think they could have done, but didn't for some reason.

"I'm not going to upgrade and then spend another $1000+ to get back the same content that I already own for V3! Again, WW would help ease this for clothing, but not for characters, morph packs, poses, textures, texture sets, and so on." I don't blame you, but... WW should take care of clothing, there's a new product already in development that could take care of transferring poses/animations, and perhaps a UTC-like product would take care of texture conversions. The only thing left would be finding a way to transfer morphs and characters, but if you like the ones that V3 already has, then why not just use V3? I guess what I'm saying is, I truly hope Daz doesn't just make V4 into a glorified V3 with more polys and basically the same rig/mat zones. V3's been around for maybe 2-3 years? I lost count. I think breaking new mold with a quality figure that's not just another stale, recycled unimesh base is more appealing. ;-)

The most bothersome thing to me about V3 is the way her buttocks blow out when there is the least bit of bend; if you were to animate her walk and watch her buttocks, you would see them alternate between too small and grossly huge. From the front, this causes a visible sagging portion that is quite at odds with human anatomy, and is difficult to properly keep in a panty.

svdl - how could morphs between V2 and V3 even be consistent considering that they are different meshes? The number and order of points on each mesh would need to be identical (which I'm dogmatically certain isn't the case). Are you sure you're not thinking about between V2 and V2-V3? All of these conversion utilities become expensive. I already have WW, but have not update UTC because of all of the incidental costs. And Kamilche's pose/animation pose converter will be additional cost. In the end, it could cost several hundred dollars to get all of the converters to 'save' several hundred dollars on content... hmmmm. ;0) I'm all for a new mesh and improvements, but there has to be consideration when dealing with the most popular Poser figure in history. There are not only those tens of thousands of product, but tens of thousands more free items/addons. It will take years for people to regain equivalent content - just in time for V5! As an aside: Just remember that the economy is about to go down the slippery slope real fast. Gas at ~$3.00 will seem like the good ole days after Katrina. Sacrifices will be made - and first on my list would be unnecessities like Poser items. I strategize my driving nowadays to keep it at an absolute minimum (the nearest store is over 6 miles away).

An example of what I mean with matching morphs: V2 has a morph GluteBig. So has V3. Of course the deltas are incompatible. But both morphs do the same thing for the body shape - they give her a bigger butt. So if a V4 has a different mesh than V3, and if V4 comes with a GluteBig morph, I'd expect the same effect - a bigger butt. Similar dial setting on similarly named morphs on V2 and V3 have similar effects. Similar, not identical, that's impossible due to the different meshes. And it works. I converted some V2 clothing to V3 using The Tailor, and I kept the old V2 morphs in the clothes (a pair of Greek sandals). The old morphs worked: when I gave V3 wider thighs I just used the V2 ThighWide dials on the sandals and I got them to fit. That's what I mean about separating the readScript part of MOR poses from the dial settings part. The readScript part is unusable for other figures since the deltas are tied to the mesh. The dial settings are defintily very usable!

"If Daz was releasing a new Victoria model..." uh, Daz is releasing a new Victoria. V3 Pro. what would I want? Nothing. I Use non Daz females now.

With all this talk, is Daz making a V4 or is this just more of a wishlist. So it's a V3 Pro? where are the threads to this? She would have to be the next best thing to sliced bread, to be worth buying. To many have to much invested into V3 to change. Even with the converters, your looking into a major investment that might backfire. If the joints and some of the body parts are not improved, your looking at a very expensive dud. If they Make different heads for ethnics. This would limit the face creation. Latin nose on a French face with a little Asian mixed into the eyes is one of my main starting points. We wouldn't have that with the different heads. Not to mention all the extra morphs needed for each head. Will V4 be made to use in poser? Maybe the real model will be made for DS and a fluffed off verion for Poser. Thing that need to be thought about. Thread posted into main forum page befor reading MachineClaw's post. Replace the V4 with V3 Pro if need be.

svdl - As I have already assumed, you are speaking of FBM/PBM/JCMs. But these aren't morphs. They are master dials. No different than matching Scale/Rotate/Translate dials between figures. beryld - My points exactly!

I'm convinced that "universal" joints will always impose some compromise; therefore, I'd like to see multiple JPs for different pose styles...perhaps sets specific to upper and lower body, etc. (Which could also be called and "injected" from a pose.) Along that same vein, realistic limits would be nice too! Of course, that's probably possible now but haven't ran across anyone, including me, that's would take on such an ambitious project.

A better, more flexible face and the possibility of having a realistic wide smile, showing teeth. A much more dynamic expressive morphing system. Less stifness over all. I'd buy that. Q

1. The return of scaling so that realistic or heroic proportions can be easily created.

2. A completely new skeleton with as little mesh distortion as possible when bending/twisting.

3. Better facial mesh design to allow for more realistic and natural expressions.

4. Gravity morphs. I am not expecting the moon, but being able to shift the appearance of weight distribution on the meatier areas (thighs, breasts, glutes) would be spiffy. Heck, even making it a mag system would be fine.

5. A base texture split into reusable parts designed more like maps you see in high end 3D. A displacement map for veins, minor muscles. A color map. A bump map. A specularity map. etc.

6. A transparent shell for an eye material that covers the entire eye for easier spec/ref management.

Quote - Forget about all the complicated joint controlled morphs and just copy Antons rig for Vicky4. (Of course the body should be of all original geometry, but I assume a certain rigging STYLE cannot be copyrighted ?)

I hope he patented the idea/concept/technique so that that can't be done!

I would like to see a more realistic V3. They should definitely rework the mesh/shape and the joints. Her whole hip/buttocks region is a mess when bend a bit more. She doesn't look like a woman, but a puppet. I agree though, that major rework would be a problem for the content that is around. On the other hand new figures come out from time to time anyway (Apollo, Jessie & James, Miki,...).

stahlratte, Apollo bends well because I spent a lot of time on the joints. There are dozens of ways to do human figures. Apollo is just one. That aside, I made it clear to them last summer, and recently, vial both phone and email, that Apollo is not a learning tool to improve the mil line. Whether copyright permissible or not, they know my wishes and seem respectful of them. It will be interesting to see what develops.

byAnton, have you offered them some sort of NDA usage rights if they so opted? I of course respect your right to protect your design, but it would also behoove all of us to have figures that deform well like Apollo Maximus, proper financial compension deserved! :)

How about a feature that would allow you to make the facial features un-symetrical? Maybe morphs that affect just one side of the face. Perhaps there is something available now like this, I don't know.

Get rid of the MORPH INJECTION CRAP!!! period.

I don't think we'll ever buy a new Daz character anymore. New and better meshes (Apollo) are available. I hope Anton comes with a female character as soon as possible. And that the clothes we have for V3 will be added to PhilC's great cloths app.

Yes Anton, where is your female character. I would love to see that :-)

Ditto on bending and more realistic shapes. Maybe a prettier face out-of-the-box ? Posette's face looks a bit better than V3's without all that morph-packs-stuff.

IMO, V3 (and the whole Mil mesh) could use more polygon density in the arms and legs for more realistic muscles.

As an aside: Just remember that the economy is about to go down the slippery slope real fast. Gas at ~$3.00 will seem like the good ole days after Katrina. Sacrifices will be made - and first on my list would be unnecessities like Poser items. I strategize my driving nowadays to keep it at an absolute minimum (the nearest store is over 6 miles away).

?? Gas spiked yesterday morning here, but it is down to $2.64 at some stations. The price jump was a knee-jerk reaction, just like it was when we invaded Iraq.

Message edited on: 08/30/2005 06:53

It hasn't started to spike yet. With the Gulf coast refineries and drill rigs closed (for days, weeks, months?), 20% of the domestic oil and gas is cut off. The federal government may decide to dip into the reserves to reduce the impact. I don't expect that to ease the problem much. Additionally, not to be morose here, we'll all be paying for Katrina for some time. Have you actually watched the news?

There are literally tens of thousands of products for V3 And when it was released, there were thousands for its predecessor. Those who want the brightest and shiniest will adapt somehow. I agree on one point: dump the INJ nonsense.

Definitely, Sean. But it's much worse (in context - lol) now and the prices have dramatically increased since then ($20, $30, $40 for a single product). Plus, I agree with those concerning INJ morphs and JPs. Look, I don't buy V3 products anymore - too much cost, too much repetition. Anyone who can actually see my purchases would be like 'huh?'. Well, with WW, I can purchase quality V3 clothing items (As-Shanim especially) and use them on other figures. :) As a note to those who want better morphs - one problem that has been noted previously is that ethnic morphs and expression morphs rarely work together well. And this is not just an issue of 'better morphs'. This is an issue that should be addressed in a new V figure.

I like SVDL's list but have to add.. Better face morphs for expressions as V3's are a little short on quality. and im not worried about V3 clothes not conforming to V4 after all PhilC will add V4 to WardrobeWizard. other than that... er... thats it.. lol

"after all PhilC will add V4 to WardrobeWizard. other than that..." Will he? Depends if he is paid to add it. They may not want to, being it reduces clothing sales doesn't it? Since figures barely cover their own costs, and most money is in the clothing lines, texture, and support items, it will be interesting to see what happens. And DarkWhisper will likely make a plugin if the Uv's are even slighly different. And Puppet Master will convert poses if the position changes. We might be on the verge of seeing an drastic reduction in either new figures or new support items. Looks bleak for content people all the way around. hehe. Well sort of anyway. Will cut the spam. Like trimming the fat with an axe. :) Will be interesting to watch and very telling of the future of things to come.

Are there any threads that say Daz is working on a V3 Pro/V4 or is all this just here say.

not a pretty thread, but just do a forum search for the word "scan", and then a page search for "Farr". You'll see the mention back in March.

"not a pretty thread," understament. Is that all everyone is going on? Has anything been said in the last 5 months?

There has been info from people amonst the Daz brokerage too, and you know how chatty people are. Information trickles. :)

Hello and thank you so much for the suggestions in this thread. Please keep them coming as that it is very important to us hear your thoughts. For the past 6 months DAZ has been working on the next generation Victoria. We originally began work as a V3 Pro but because of feature creep we may end up with a V4 instead(no promises either way).

From your suggestions it looks like we are moving in the right direction and are willing to modify further as more information comes. Please keep it coming. It is still too early to suggest any expected timelines on her release date either.

Dan Farr

Message edited on: 08/31/2005 13:27

Message edited on: 08/31/2005 13:29

I thought this would be an interesting thread. And judging by what "danfarr" just said I'm glad I brought it up! James

Don't know. If it's Vic 4 they are working on, then are they re-designing the model or just trying to compensate for the weaknesses that exist already. Most posters here have sort of requested a new mesh and perhaps a new approach to how the model responds to the user and projects in 3d space and to the camera. I would hope for a model who's structure responds better to lateral and oblique muscle movements and since the face is what most interests me, I would look for cheek lateral and oblique movement; an upper lip that can retract and show gum in a smile; forehead and tissue around the eyes that can wrinkle etc. Looking forward to the new one and the long threads that should follow its release...:))) Q