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Community Center F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Sep 19 8:42 pm)
Subject: AOY Voting--Where'd it go?????
They never meant for us to vote for AOY, it was a mistake for them to put it up for voting. It is easier for them to vote in who they want instead of allowing we mere peasants to have any say in it. They will tell us what is good for us and we will like it mister !!! From Heir Tim, "Guys, RR Admins and Mods vote for the AOY. That's been the plan for some time. It was a mistake to set it up as a public poll and we apologize for the confusion. TC"
Right, Spirit. The message is that all contests are closed to non-vendors; and they're ESPECIALLY closed to big, scary freaks like Legume. This is, I have to say, disappointingly typical of the admins and their desire to appear slickly "corporate" at all costs. No wonder there's so little actual art in the galleries--it's not allowed.
Spiritbro77 in #7: >Now I know that this is a Marketplace that happens to >have a gallery. You're surprized by that? You're here to showcase the vendor's software. You are an advertizement. The message is "look through the gallerys and see what amazing things XYZ software can do! See how much fun these people are having, and how popular they are! Look at all the supportive and helpful comments they receive! You could be just like them!" That's why the Pink Pony is such a fart in the christening basin. IYAM.
God, you know, don't you people ever look outside these forums? I've seen a total of maybe 15 people out of 100,000 bitch about this AoY thing. Whenever Rosity makes some decision, that maybe there are a couple of protest images in the gallery. That tells me that a majority of this site seems to be more concerned with sharing their passion for art, the friendships they make, the "escape" if you will, that this community ultimately offers, then what happened to a poll that most consider to be bogus and popularity/politically manipulated anyway.
ScottA said, "Don't like it, leave..." and everybody went, "No, we don't want to leave!!!" Why not? Probably because like the other people, you too enjoy coming here for whatever reason and wouldn't want to see Renderosity fold anymore than anyone else. Look how many people have come back after they said, "Goodbye forever..." when they couldn't find a community like this out there. You know, it truly touchs my heart to see the outpouring of support for not only the art, but the people's lives behind the art. That is what makes it a community, not the fact that it has a store or any single policy decision.
I'm not naive. I know that renderosity is the business because it has to be one in order to maintain a comfortable income range to support the community that it has tried so hard to create for us. Servers are expensive, as is bandwidth, staff, etc. And some of those decisions, are based on the goal of providing that community for all, are not always the right one in somebody's eyes. This tends to be looked upon by a small amount of people as selling out or "corporate" crap, but it's this "corporate" crap that gives you and I a place to be having this conversation...
Legume is an artist that we all remember and I have nothing personal against his artwork. I think he does controversy better than anyone else, with both style and tongue in cheek humor. However, I do think that Renderosity was afraid he would win, and thus pulled the poll. It makes sense from a business point of view, which again is the goal, if the community is to survive. After all, does the public really want Jack Sh$t to be the new Rosity spokesperson because some people think he's cool? This isn't Congress or Parliament or whatever government one has, it's a private web site with their own goals, goals of survival and to keep the most people happy. I think the sooner people accept that, the better. Is the whole thing fair? No, but then who said life was fair? It was equally as unfair to the other artists that Legume was campaigning (which is where I first heard about the AoY being voted on) in his gallery image for Jack Sh$t. Should you bitch? Heck yeah...How can the admin know how people feel unless they say something. It is, in the end, no one else's decision but their own.
I think that these contests always wind up this way and are nothing but trouble for both Rosity and those that seem to follow them...If it were up to me, I'd find some other way to showcase artists...
My 2c
ShadowWind
Flame you say? I'm a little deaf in my right ear. Speak louder next time...
Again, very slowly: I'm a longtime member, longtime customer here, someone who supports the "community" with my MP purchases. Yes, I like the site--it is one of my favorite wastes of time. Yes, I feel that I have a legitimate interest in urging management to run the site in a fair, evenhanded and responsive manner. The "fuck you, it's a business" argument (how many times have we all heard that lately?) looks a lot less persuasive when you remind people that yes, it's a reasonably successful, small, retail business--not exactly Exxon--and as such depends on the CUSTOMERS for its income. Where I'm from, it's never good business practice to piss off your customers, ANY of them, even the ones you're convinced are hopeless pains in the ass: partly because of the damage they can do to your business by publicly throwing a shitfit in your store, and partly because of the time and energy it takes to deal with them when they're foaming at the mouth. Sooner or later the admin staff are going to have to come out of their cubicles and talk to us, and it's not going to be easy for them (which is why they're still avoiding the issue--hoping it'll just go away). If this matter isn't properly resolved, I won't leave--I'll just let my wallet do the talking and stop buying from the marketplace. It's a matter of principle and fair play (and possibly legal obligation--see below), and I'll do what I can within the TOS to keep this issue front burner till the PTB step forward and explain themselves.
Well, I think it's sad that the vote was taken away from the community but I hoestly can't blame them for wanting to. This is much more serious than the AOM voting, if I remember correctly from last year, the winner gets alot of things like a paid expense trip to Siggraph among other things. That doesn't come cheap and it stands to reason also that every time any of us buy anything at the marketplace we are helping to fund all the goodies that the AOY will get. Personally I can't fault them for not wanting to waste community resources on a person who has dedicated himself to trying to destroy the community. And yes I know, supposedly he was trying to "improve" the community with all his little protests, but more often than not back when this was a big deal it was obvious to most everyone that his main interest was really the attention he was getting from all of it, not the community itself. I'm all for protest as long as the protesters keep the real goal in sight and I don't think you can say that for Legume, maybe at first but definitely not in the end and certainly not now. If it is true that any of our pruchases have anything to do with the funding for the AOY then I would have to say that I wouldn't want that man to have Jack Shit if it mean a penny needed for it had to come out of my pocket. Even so, on a side to note Mosca, didn't you admit to rigging the top 20 some time back with who knows how many fake accounts just to help support your friend here? How are we to even know if the figures in the poll were even acurate?(and no I'm not acusing you, I'm just making everyone else think) Melissa
" If it is true that any of our pruchases have anything to do with the funding for the AOY then I would have to say that I wouldn't want that man to have Jack Shit if it mean a penny needed for it had to come out of my pocket." Then you should have voted for who you wanted to win, and encouraged your freinds to vote too. "it was obvious to most everyone that his main interest was really the attention he was getting from all of it" I thought that was part of the purpose of this site, to gain exposure for it's members. "Well, I think it's sad that the vote was taken away from the community but I hoestly can't blame them for wanting to. " Then they never should have put it up for a vote in the first place. Once a contest has been started- then changed mid stride- it is definately borderline illegal. And nothing wrong with asking the authorities to look into this, just to make sure it's on the up and up. "How are we to even know if the figures in the poll were even acurate?" Last years AOY was surrounded in controversy of just that nature- it was alledged that a member was winning the AOY through multiple accounts and clones, then the poll was pulled everyones votes nulled and redistributed to however the PTB decided to redistribute them (i dont remember exactly how they decided to redistribute them but i can look it up). SO if last year is any example- yes they can track and find ut if it's clone accounts etc. Rosity just needs to quit having contests, They don't have a clue how to run them. I don't think i can remember one where there was no controversy surrounding it.
Honey, I voted for ToxicAngel, he was winning anyway and I did encourage those I know to vote too(for whoever they wanted to vote for). I thought that was part of the purpose of this site, to gain exposure for it's members. I'm sure that is one of the many purposes of this site, my point which seems to have eluded you is that a protester should remain true to his cause if he wants to be taken seriously, that is why I don't take Legume seriously. Then they never should have put it up for a vote in the first place. Once a contest has been started- then changed mid stride- it is definately borderline illegal. And nothing wrong with asking the authorities to look into this, just to make sure it's on the up and up. Last years AOY was surrounded in controversy of just that nature- it was alledged that a member was winning the AOY through multiple accounts and clones, then the poll was pulled everyones votes nulled and redistributed to however the PTB decided to redistribute them (i dont remember exactly how they decided to redistribute them but i can look it up). SO if last year is any example- yes they can track and find ut if it's clone accounts etc. both points true and I agree it would have been better to have not had the poll to start with, perhaps it was just a miscommunication or some sort within the staff or who knows why, but even if it wasn't I can't say I blame them for wanting to pull the poll... Melissa
"Personally I can't fault them for not wanting to waste community resources on a person who has dedicated himself to trying to destroy the community." Well, they're my resources, too, by that logic, and I'd like to see them distributed fairly, according to the wishes of the membership. If R'osity doesn't like the potential outcome, they shouldn't hold the competition. And if this really IS the issue--Legume's unsuitability as the R'osity poster boy--then they should just come out and say so and not hide behind some lame, half-hearted excuse. They should NOT change horses in midstream when it looks like things might not go their way--especially, as you say, when there are prizes involved. And I really have to challenge the assertion that Legume is trying to "destroy the community." Legume is just being Legume--always pushing the envelopes of politics and good taste, always trying to push the buttons of the easily offended. That's what he does, and if people are offended by him, there are (were) 11 other contestants they could've voted for. "Even so, on a side to note Mosca, didn't you admit to rigging the top 20 some time back with who knows how many fake accounts just to help support your friend here? How are we to even know if the figures in the poll were even acurate?(and no I'm not acusing you, I'm just making everyone else think)" Yep, I got a little carried away by the whole C&D, Hot 20 Joke Patrol thing, and though it seemed all part of the comedy at the time it was an error in judgment--certainly not something I'd do again. If clone voting was the issue here, I assume the admins would've said so. They haven't.
"my point which seems to have eluded you is that a protester should remain true to his cause if he wants to be taken seriously, that is why I don't take Legume seriously." Lots of things elude me- shrug but i am better off that way and happier ;) And as far as being a protest with the pink ponies- my kids and freinds loved the images LOL they had no idea it was a protest- actually i didn't either at first- i just thought they were funny and original LOL - again- back to that lots of things elude me- but then- maybe that's why i thught they were so fun to look at- shrug Once the poll was up- they should have just left it and let it run it's course. It would have been a lot less damaging in the long run. Yah there would have been long threads for both sides of the issue- but it would have been the membes and NOT the site involved. As it stands now- they just opened a whole new can of worms
Lots of things elude me- shrug but i am better off that way and happier ;) And as far as being a protest with the pink ponies- my kids and freinds loved the images LOL they had no idea it was a protest- actually i didn't either at first- i just thought they were funny and original LOL - again- back to that lots of things elude me- but then- maybe that's why i thught they were so fun to look at- shrug There was alot more to this protest than just the pink ponies, I seem to remember an image of Mr. Fluffers taking a dive into the Twin towers and yet another entitled "Vicky washes her Stinky Pussy".....anyway, the end result is that this all became about Legume, not freedom of speech and just by your statement above you've proven my point even better than I could have..:) Melissa
and that means what? and what does that have to do with the fact that i took time to vote in a contest and it was pulled. How or why i voted is my business, and has nothing to do with anything else, except that i voted for who i wanted to. What goes on in the artists head when they make the pictures really doesnt matter to me. Why they make their pictures doesn't matter to me. What matters in this case is: A Contest poll was put up- the PTB didnt like the results they were seeing so they pulled - definately unethical if not illegal.
This really isn't about the relative merits (or not) of Legume's work. It's a fairness issue--should the site offer a prize and then withdraw it because one of the potential winners annoys them? If they want to give a present to someone whose work better fits their unwritten inoffensiveness guidelines, fine, give them a present. But let's not call it a contest. Let's call a spade a spade, if there's still any doubt, and post in big, block letters on the front page that Legume, alone among all members, is not entitled to and will not be awarded any prize in any contest, ever again. Anything less is cowardly and dishonest, in my view.
it means exactly what it says...don't try to read anything more into it or you'll just make your head hurt. YOu're right, who you voted for is your business, no one's disputing that in any way. I acutally do agree with you about the poll but from an opposing persective, it's a shame that the vote had to be taken away from the community because so few within it actually recognize real talent and skill and only resond to those who draw the most attention to themselves... Melissa
This really isn't about the relative merits (or not) of Legume's work. It's a fairness issue--should the site offer a prize and then withdraw it because one of the potential winners annoys them? If they want to give a present to someone whose work better fits their unwritten inoffensiveness guidelines, fine, give them a present. But let's not call it a contest. Let's call a spade a spade, if there's still any doubt, and post in big, block letters on the front page that Legume, alone among all members, is not entitled to and will not be awarded any prize in any contest, ever again. Anything less is cowardly and dishonest, in my view. How do you know that it isn't? It could be about that as well as a few other things including the desire for someone who better represents the community or it could be about none of those things, we really do not know. I am also disappointed that the poll was taken away. I would much rather have seen toxicAngel win by popular vote than hope that the PTB decides that he wins but unfortunately that didn't happen. Hell, if you want to make a comparison in terms of artistic skill, AND contributions to the community it's still clear who should win if it came down to those too people and I don't even know the guy personally. Melissa
"I acutally do agree with you about the poll but from an opposing persective, it's a shame that the vote had to be taken away from the community because so few within it actually recognize real talent and skill and only resond to those who draw the most attention to themselves... Melissa" I'm a bit offended you think I can't recognize real talent just because I voted for Legume. Art isn't all PAINTING talent and skill with pixels you know. No, I don't like all of his stuff, some of it is offensive. But some of it isn't too. Have you even looked at it all? Some artists we recognize now as great artists, weren't thought great artists by their peers at the time they were living either. I think to many people look at his art with prior bias. You see different because you don't want to see anything good when you look at his art. PS: Yes, ToxicAngel is a very good artist. But then again, it doesn't draw forth any emotion in me either. With Legume's art some have disgusted me, some have brought a tear to my eye, some make me go hmmm..., and some make me laugh.
Melissa, I really don't think the "real talent and skill" remark is warranted at all. Although artists may have various styles and/or originalities, often times exactly THAT which makes them "unique" enough to "stand out in the crowd" and be the "winners" among us all; to fashion, create and establish the works of a Legume can take the same amount of passion and effort and inspiration as that of a ToxicAngel would; they BOTH do have a very unique statement of quality in a very different way and should actually be appreciated for that stimulation of unequaled value their talents seem to arouse among so many members enough to vote for them so vigorously.
Right--the great unwashed can't be trusted to make the simplest decisions. nope, you're reading what you want into that. What I think is unfortunate is that so few are actually paying attention to what's going on, so much so that all of the actually talented artists Legume went up against for AOM lost because most of the community just saw a flash in the pan and went in that direction rather than actually looking at and examining the art in the galleries that were presented before them. Anyway, my point has been made many times and I have actually agreed with you as far as the poll goes, right now you have just resorted to your own personal feelings on the subject in order to keep the argument going...nice job.. Melissa
"How do you know that it isn't? It could be about that as well as a few other things including the desire for someone who better represents the community or it could be about none of those things, we really do not know." I should have clarified. I meant that this discussion ought not to be about whose work is better; I think that debate is pointless and kind of insults us all. I have no doubt that the admins would prefer the site be represented by work which more closely represents the prevailing, MP-friendly girl/sword/postwork aesthetic. For me (not speaking for anyone else), as I said, the issue is fairness--and nomenclature, to some degree. "I would much rather have seen toxicAngel win by popular vote than hope that the PTB decides that he wins" So would I. So would he (see the TA's post in the thread below). I'd rather the admins had a better-developed sense of fair play, and were less concerned with protecting appearances at all costs.
"What I think is unfortunate is that so few are actually paying attention to what's going on, so much so that all of the actually talented artists Legume went up against for AOM lost because most of the community just saw a flash in the pan and went in that direction rather than actually looking at and examining the art in the galleries that were presented before them." Right--the great unwashed can't be trusted to make the simplest decisions.
"Personally I can't fault them for not wanting to waste community resources on a person who has dedicated himself to trying to destroy the community." "it's a shame that the vote had to be taken away from the community because so few within it actually recognize real talent and skill and only resond to those who draw the most attention to themselves..." Yeah... next thing you know they'll be lettin' those uppity niggers vote and win contests. Then where would we be?!
okay so, real talent and skill really have nothing to do with it. there is no point in trying to develop my skills as an artist because in the end no one will actually care whether or not the work is any good..what I really need to do is just jump up and down and draw as much attention to myself as possible and then try to churn out 3 barely constructed peices a day and that will be enough for me to be considered an artist. Personally I'd rather take the chance that no one will notice, that my work will be special to me whether anyone else ever even comments on it. I'm not looking for money or attention ulitmately, I just want to do what means the most to me and if a few do like it, well that's fine too...I've never had the personality to be a celebrity...don't like alot of attention, but if somehow being a real artist means you must be a celebrity, I can do without either title...Lecturing me that feeling is important to art is even more insulting than saying I don't know what I'm talking about. And Mosca, if you must only continue to see what you want to see just for the sake of having something to argue about go right ahead, you are only showing your own lack of intuitiveness. I have said before that I agree that the poll shouldn't have been taken away and to imply that I want some sort of dictatorship is just wrong. I value democracy as much as you think you do but I am just pointing out that this is whole scenario is just a good example of how democracy can sometimes backfire, I'm not suggesting it is reason to replace it with anything else so don't even try to put words in my mouth. For one final time, I will say again that I agree with you about the polls but I will never agree from your perspective because in my mind your perspective is just as completely unfair and injust as you think mine is... Melissa
What's the big issue? Is same argument many make around here. Legume is not good enough artist to deserve AOY, and so he si now "nigger". Just like black peoples or jewish peoples. Except now we discriminate on him because of how he believes? What he says? Same argument you make, lynde... different historical context. ;)
"And Mosca, if you must only continue to see what you want to see just for the sake of having something to argue about go right ahead, you are only showing your own lack of intuitiveness." Just responding to what you wrote, Lynde, which is essentially that the members aren't smart enough to pick the "real" art, because their feeble minds are distracted by a lot of jumping up and down. Sorry if I'm misreading you, but that's really what you seem to be saying. Maybe it's not my fault that I can't intuit your true meaning; I'm a lot of things, but I'm not psychic.
what has this got to do with racism? I KNOW you had better not be implying that because there is no way anyone could even remotely dream that this has anything to do with that or that anything I said was a racist remark. Get that chip off your shoulder. I can't remember who said it but somehow now the phrase "I don't agree with a single thing you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" keeps coming back to mind...I'll bet i'm the last person you thought you'd hear that one from, huh? I really don't agree with your perspective at all but you have and should have a right to express it just as I should.. The PTB gave us a poll then took it away when they saw that we(yes we, as a whole community) might make a stupid decision. That is an unfortunate side effect of democracy, sometimes the people do make misguided decisions(any history or political sciences expert will tell you that) but that does not mean that the system as a whole doesn't work or is not fair. I don't agree that it should have been taken away but again, my point is that it is unfortunate that this happened. Melissa
Just responding to what you wrote, Lynde, which is essentially that the members aren't smart enough to pick the "real" art, because their feeble minds are distracted by a lot of jumping up and down. Sorry if I'm misreading you, but that's really what you seem to be saying. Maybe it's not my fault that I can't intuit your true meaning; I'm a lot of things, but I'm not psychic. You've almost got it, but not quite. I never made reference to anyone's intelligence, that part you added. I do think that Legume's work was for many, a distraction, whether that has anything to do with intelligence or not depends on the individual....Cheryle said before that she didn't even know it was a protest at first, wasn't that what this was supposed to be?? Melissa
lynde I disagree with you on one small point. The PTB saw we were going to make a decision that they didn't like, that doesn't immediately make it a stupid decision. In this case the system is being unfair as we'd pretty much made the decision to give the AOY to Legume or ToxicAngel & the PTB just don't like Legume & couldn't risk letting him be AOY as it would be a signal for everyone to be original/contraversial in their artwork, we can't have that can we?
Might make a stupid decision? in who's opinion? What may be stupid for one is the right answer for another- and frankly i didn't get this far in life by having someone "protect" me from making "so called stupid decisions." Why is it stupid? because it doesn't have that cookie cutter harlequin romance thing going? If it's about image then that's a crock- all one has to do is look at the banner ads and the frt page ads to know they really are not worried about image. I pulled my work along time ago ( for a few reasons) one of them being- i was asked why i was posting to a soft porn site. If they are really worried about image- then they have a lot of work to do- starting with their advertising.And Melissa- it's the way you are saying things that is causing an issue. You basically are insulting everyone who did not vote for TA. So what if my definition of talent is diff than yours? How do you know what was going through peoples minds as they were voting. You don't-you are just making assumptions.
"Cheryle said before that she didn't even know it was a protest at first, wasn't that what this was supposed to be??" It started out as satire, really. Not quite the same thing. I don't think Legume or anyone else could have anticipated that we'd still be arguing about it now--what, seven months later? "I don't agree that it should have been taken away but again, my point is that it is unfortunate that this happened." Good. Then we agree.
Might make a stupid decision? in who's opinion? What may be stupid for one is the right answer for another- and frankly i didn't get this far in life by having someone "protect" me from making "so called stupid decisions." In my opinion and I'm sure others, yes, it would have been a stupid decision(not just based on talent and skill but a number of other reasons as well)...that is my opinion and I have a right to have one just as you do. I don't know what was going through other's minds but I do think voting him as AOY would be stupid, and have a right to feel that way even if it is an unpopular point of view.. Melissa
lynde, post #44: "You've almost got it, but not quite. I never made reference to anyone's intelligence, that part you added." lynde, post #50: "In my opinion and I'm sure others, yes, it would have been a stupid decision(not just based on talent and skill but a number of other reasons as well)...that is my opinion and I have a right to have one just as you do. I don't know what was going through other's minds but I do think voting him as AOY would be stupid, and have a right to feel that way even if it is an unpopular point of view.." Hmmmm.... But no matter. I still think the issue is not who should have won, but whether the admins are justified in pulling the plug just because they live in fear and loathing of Legume.
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Suddenly the AOY voting area and stats are gone from the front page. Wtf? Does this mean voting's suddenly/arbitrarily closed? Does this mean the PTB don't want us to view the stats? I have to say, unless there's a pretty good explanation, this looks pretty freakin fishy.