Take a look at his head and his mane. It's all wrong. In the photo of the real lion, you can clearly see the ears through the mane and the hair comes to more of a peak down his forehead between the ears. In the Mil lion, the mane looks like a bad wig glued onto his head, completely obscuring the ears. Also, the real lion has wrinkles around the forehead and the Mil lion's head looks like a piece of carved wood, completely smooth and with no contour. Also, the real lion has fur on his chin almost like a little goatee, and the Mil lion's chin looks like a piece of smooth plastic. The eyes make him look like a bad taxidermy job.

Sorry, DAZ, as much of a HUGE fan of yours as I am, this one just doesn't cut it for me, darn it!

Melanie

Message edited on: 10/23/2004 09:50

Message edited on: 10/23/2004 09:54

Not exactly fearsome looking is he!

hi Melanie Maybe, u could try to lighten the mane's texture a bit!? I think it could make the lion look a bit more realistic. i dont have it myself so i clouldnt try. :( Bye Stef

I was also looking forward to these models but I have to agree they look a bit stuffed lol With all the fur big cats have though I can't say I am really supprised, not an easy thing to do in Poser.

Message edited on: 10/23/2004 12:44

hmmm....with a little bit of texture magic, this guy could look at least a little more realistic I am thinking...

I'd try using the Poser 5 hair on it, bet that'd look good.

he needs a shaggier coat with less reflection as well to take away the plastic look I am thinking

Yup, all it needs is a photorealistic texture and a lighter trans map

Try using a bump or displacement map (depending on version of Poser) to create the details on the face

I've noticed several items from Daz which need a lot of tweaking to look right. Makes me wonder about their quality control. On this, the mane does look too dark, though I wouldn't be surprised if the real lion was reckoned unusually light-maned.

After looking at the side-by-side pics, it's closer to the Cowardly Lion in "The Wizard of Oz" than a real lion.

Actually, I was looking on some websites trying to find pictures of lions and there were some comments about whether the darkness of the mane is a factor in attracting the females, so there are different colors of manes, apparently.

It's just that the Mil lion's ears seem to be way too small. The real lion has much larger ears than the Mil cat; they show in front of his mane. And the "hairline" around his face is too round. The mane should have more contour around his face. The other cats (tiger, leopard, etc.) look pretty good. It's just the lion who doesn't make the grade for me and he's the one I would really want it for.

Well, if they ever upgrade it, I may buy it, but until it looks more realistic, I think I'll pass on it. Especially, since I have Poser 4 and can't do dynamic hair or displacement maps. I don't plan to upgrade Poser yet, either, until my bank account is a bit healthier.

Melanie

Message edited on: 10/23/2004 20:18

LOL LOL LOL

I didn't get this set because I already have all of Lyne's Big Cats. They really do these magnificant creatures proud!

But when I first saw this lion's mane I figured it must have been an African Black Mane Lion they were going for. The coloration can go anywhere from tawny to pure black.

As an aside the reason for the "attraction" for the females is because the black mane seems to be a hardier breed and the survival rate for offspring are higher.

Pretty smart lioness huh? ;-)

Females: always about the kids! ;-0

Women ALWAYS want guys with dark hair!!! (Disclosure: I am a mildly disgruntled single male with dishwater dark blond hair who has lost many a potential date to some swarthy mediterranean guy with an exotic accent.) My prediction is (from Chandler in "Friends"): "I'm going to die alone... And now I have to go get a snake!" (Confused pause from everyone.) "Because in every apartment building there's a bitter old permanently single guy who's gone slowly nuts and bought a big snake, and all the kids say, 'Run Away from Crazy Snake Man!!! ". Maybe I need to have the doctor change my meds. - - -

I'm married to a dishwater blonde, servo. There is hope for you. :) RC

though I am not too impressed at this point with the lion and am thinking of doing textures to make him look better, I do like some of the other breeds in the package, some of the textures came out very well and the morphs are pretty decent. I tend more towards the panthers and jaguars myself anyways, so the lion is not something I personally would use very often...but I am still considering texturing the poor dear :P and definitely needs new eye textures!!!

It was the Saber-Toothed Cat which finally sold me on the Big Cat. However the Default Saber-tooth morph didnt work as is. First of all the sabers were way to long. It was more like 12 inches as opposed to the 7 inch teeth Smilodon really had. Also if you used the MthOpenRoar morph His gums and teeth stick out of his skin. These problems were easy enough to fix by just fooling with the dials a bit but it was obvious DAZ did not fully test their model.

Is there a way to make his ears larger? Maybe that would help. The lion in the photo has pretty big ears showing in front of his mane. Maybe if the DAZ lion's ears were enlarged, it would make him look more realistic. Melanie

The problem with the Daz Big Cat is that the morphs are truly horrendous...if you look at Davids sabretooth you still see that the paws are flat on the bottom and you will note on his followup that it took morphing on his part to get it to look like that.When you buy a product it should come the way its supposed to look right out of the box so to say.Now if David could play with it and get it looking that good (way to go bro...ya got skill),then there is absolutely no excuse for this product being put out the way it was!!!DAZ has this habit of doing things sloppy and putting out bad products because it knows its supporters are blind sheep who will pay for broken toys now and then DAZ will fix them later at their leisure. This is a prime example of why a lot of people increasingly say you shouldn't buy from DAZ when a new product comes out...let those dead heads who think DAZ is god waste their money first and pay attention to what they say regarding how much work they have to put into something to get it to look right.Turbosquid is another option but their prices are a bit steep and of course as mentioned,Lynes Wildcats are truly a superb product. To Spiritfoxy I say don't waste your time on this product...the worst part are the morphs and its just not worth you time to make textures until this product is overhauled.Maybe David could remorph them cause he did real good on his Sabretooth...just needs to work on the feet from what I see. I hate being a downer,but at some point people have got to hammer DAZ for this kind of garbage...I mean,it looks as if they had absolutely "no" beta testing for this as I cannot see even one person saying that this product was ready for market save for maybe as the "DAZ Big Cat Taxidermy Set"!!

I whish I could say I did some brilliant morphing to get my saber to look like it did but all I did was move few dials around. The sad thing is if DAZ had tested their model properly they could have had the saber morph look right from the start. I did nothing to the paws so they have that funky flat look that the model came with. For the $12.96 I paid for it, the Big Cat isnt that bad although I would not have paid $27.97 for it and $39.95 it will go for after the sale is insane.

For $20.00 you could have gotten Lyne's Wilcats which are far superior to these and if you look at all the animal characters she has created...well,puts those guys at DAZ to shame.Lets also remember,a lot of people didn't have those vouchers and such which you used forcing them to pay the sale price of $27.97 and there will be people who pay the full price later. One of my friends pointed out that the way they hyped up the voucher angle has him suspicious as could it be that DAZ wanted people to use those vouchers up now so you will have to pay full price for the coming Christmas packages they have planned...then release a fixit pak of morphs to correct the Big Cats and charge you for those as well??The first part of that argument I have to agree with because the DAZ Dead Heads (members blindly loyal to DAZ) started speaking from the very start of using those vouchers and you yourself state how they aren't bad for the $12.96 you paid for them...but are they worth anything more than $12.96?? It seems like almost everything DAZ puts out from within the company itself is flawed or half ass done so I've warned the members of my site to stop buying anything from DAZ when it is first released...to wait and see if its a good product first but only by listening to DAZ's critics,DAZ has created a core group of supporters over there that I call Dead Heads because their support is almost mindless and they will even shill for DAZ to convince people to buy products they know are bad.But increasingly in the DAZ forums you are finding the tide beginning to turn and a lot of angry voices are now beginning to be heard. The end advice I offer,never buy a DAZ company product when it is first released and only buy products from people that they broker that you know make good products...almost any other company that put out this kind of falty product on a regular basis would be put out of business by law suits and its that they have no fear of being sued that allows DAZ to continue doing this.

LOL I hope you dont lump me in with the Dead Heads. I seen Lynes Wildcats and Im planning on getting them but I wanted a saber-tooth so I got the Big Cat. Is the Big Cat worth more than $12.96? No, at least not until they fix it. I went to the DAZ forum and according to the Platinum Club Coordinator (whatever that is) the Big Cat is being worked on. Now if they do charge extra for the fixes then your friend would be proven right and youll see me at the head of a group angry torch carrying villagers (AKA Frankenstein). At the end of the day each person has to decide for themselves if a product is worth buying. My advice (for what its worth) is that if you have the vouchers get it otherwise just wait. Sure the price may go up but by then the fixes would have implemented and you can decide for yourself whether its worth the price.

Nah...a DAZ Dead Head is someone who just can't bring themselves to accept that DAZ is screwing them over lol.Its like the Platinum Club,its a great deal til you consider that at times it has gone months with virtually nothing new added...compare that to RDNA Real Deals or Poser Pro's Pro Club and DAZ really comes off as greedy.I mean,you get the Pro Club and Real Deals at no additional cost or membership,new items are added weekly and the only gimmick is that they want your business honestly while DAZ is trying to pinch your pocketbook any way they can lol.

Armorbeat wrote: "Its like the Platinum Club,its a great deal til you consider that at times it has gone months with virtually nothing new added"

This is absolutely untrue. There have been new items added to the Platinum Club each and every week since it opened - in the past year alone there have been between five and nine items added each week. I'd hardly say that the Platinum Club "has gone months with virtually nothing new added".

So if you take your sentence and remove the untrue parts you have: Its like the Platinum Club,its a great deal! :)

Lisa Buckalew
Platinum Club Coordinator

Everyone's throwing their 2 cents into this thread, I might as well, too: Disclosure: I do not work for or sell at DAZ. I am a DAZ platinum club member, and I don't feel like I've been cheated at all. I have a lot of stuff from their $1.99 deals (and frequent sales and discounts) that I think were WELL worth the money. I also have purchased plenty of high quality models there (with my discounts) that I have no complaints about. I don't think there's any reason for people to be needlessly dumping on DAZ in a generalized sense, since it's clearly been a boon to the poser community at large. Having said that, I did buy the Mil Big Cat, and I admit I am disappointed with it. I hadn't been previously aware of Lynne's animals (and now that I've seen I'm very glad to know they are available, since I do buy stuff from many different sources). I hope and wish that DAZ would take a careful look at their BigCat and offer some serious morph upgrading and options to buyers for free, if for no other reason than to restore their good name in terms of quality -- where I think the consensus is pretty obvious here that the BigCat slipped through as a "not quite ready for prime time" release. I also hope that this whole situation will continue to encourage DAZ product artists to redouble their efforts in a committment to quality and realism that their customers clearly value. ---

Im a Platinum Club member and Im frankly rethinking the whole thing. Unless youre someone who buys frequently its really not worth it. In the beginning there were many things I wanted so Platinum Club was a good deal but now when I go there and I dont find a lot of stuff I need and yet Im dishing out $7.95 a month. Now dont get me wrong DAZ makes some excellent models and I will still buy there whenever theres a model I want. However unless youre buying things on a regular basis I dont think the Platinum Club makes a lot of sense.

As for the Mil Big Cat Im sure DAZ will fix it. I just hope they dont call it an upgrade and charge us for it.

Message edited on: 10/27/2004 12:33

I prefer to wait till DAZ makes everyone a free member for a month, then I hunt to see if there is anything worth buying at $1.99 apiece. I looked at their Platinum Bonus pack. Nothing there I wanted. I'm not going to pay $7.99 a month for nothing. I joined PoserWorld instead. Got a lot for my money.

Methinks LisaB needs to do the rethinking.I joined the DAZ Platinum Club last year around Christmas for one month because they made such a great offer to join up...then waited around for something new to be added~nothing of interest was so I did not renew.Then in February we got the free month so I went back and you know how many new items had been added since I joined initially in December...6 and most of those were add ons for things you had to purchase to use.

And I'm not alone in pointing this out Lisa as even many of the Dead Heads on Daz have complained about this and completely agree that the Platinum Club seemed like a good idea but for most its simply not!!What you may be confused about is that over the past few months DAZ has brokered some deals and outright purchased products from people like Dark Whisper and since their older stuff is pretty much sold to those who pay full price,they just dump them in the Platinum Club.

There have indeed been periods of months,however,where DAZ has added nothing or next to nothing to the club and that is something even most loyal members of DAZ will admit...and if you buy the annual membership then you have been royally ripped off.Add to this that most of the items you get in the club can't be used as stand alone products...the question I raised is how is the Platinum Club really a deal when RDNA and Poser Pros offer the same format with no membership fees?If you pay a membership fee then by god you should get something above and beyond what the competition offers without a membership fee...its kinda like the rosity 10% discount on purchases of $35.00 or more that hits when you least expect and when you really can't afford to buy $35.00 in stuff from them before its over.

One thing I don't take is being referred to by anyone as a liar Lisa and I wasn't just speaking for myself in making that statement you tried to correct me on...this is a well documented fact that even the DAZ admin have at times apologised for.So before you go calling someone a liar...get your facts straight first so it can't be turned back on you to make you look foolish.

And servo,the point isn't that DAZ doesn't make good products...its just that in far too many cases like the Big Cats they dump a product on the market that had there been quality control measures in place would not have been released without being reworked first.Many items you may get from them are in fact produced by individual creators and not DAZ itself...but when its created as a DAZ product in far too many cases it proves defective and needs reworked or updated.

Remember when all those defective Firestone tires hit the market that blew out and caused several deaths?They now know that the plant that produced those tires released them on the market knowing they were defective...they simply didn't think of the consequences and the result were deaths and lawsuits.We often hear about companys being sued for putting out defective products or products that aren't what they were promised to be...DAZ hasn't been sued for this so they have no reason to fear it even though legally releasing a product like Big Cats is a breach of promise since any child can see they should not have been released like they were.

Wow there is so much misinformation here I do not know what to address first. "There have indeed been periods of months, however, where DAZ has added nothing or next to nothing to the club and that is something even most loyal members of DAZ will admit" You are wrong.. there has never been a month with out a lot of PC releases, period. See releases below since last Nov: Nov18 Dec 21 Jan 15 Feb 39 Mar 27 April 36 May 24 June 36 July 38 Aug 28 Sept 30 Oct 27 1 Year 339 Stand alone items: The store is packed with them, I stopped counting once I got over a hundred. If you will not take my word for it though I will be happy to post a full list. A few examples though : Jet bike Viper Skyrider Gothic construction Kit The Tower Moonlight Serenade Gunslingers Tribal Cloths Goth As Fashion Joan Of Ac Wizard robes Every Day Wear Hair.. (Sassy hair, Loose comb Hair, Cuffed Tail Hair, to name a few) Hats with Hair.. and so on ..... "when RDNA and Poser Pros offer the same format with no membership fees?" They also do not offer discounts on the rest of their store or discounts on major models such as V3 , M3 and so on. So if you do not intend to purchase major Daz models then the PC may not be the place for you. Our releases span many genres, if there is nothing for you in the 339 products spanning these genres then you then again the PC may not be for you. "What you may be confused about is that over the past few months DAZ has brokered some deals and outright purchased products from people like Dark Whisper and since their older stuff is pretty much sold to those who pay full price,they just dump them in the Platinum Club." Purchasing Third party products in general, and Dark Whisper products specifically was not only suggested by the membership, but insisted on, in fact when we decreased the amount of older Dark Whisper items released because of a few folks stated they did not want them, we were literally deluged with requests to re implement the practice.. there are several threads in the members only forum pertaining to this that I would be happy show you if you are a current member. In that last year membership has increased dramatically, .. We listen to member suggestions and implement them as rapidly as we can were we can. Specific Feed back, both positive and negative is something both Lisa and myself value, and take very seriously, however posting general misinformation is destructive. If you have specific suggestions for products that you would like to see we are more than willing to listen, please feel free to post them in the members forum were they will do the most good.

Armorbeast wrote: "One thing I don't take is being referred to by anyone as a liar Lisa"

You're correct. My choice of words was wrong and I'm sorry. Rather than "untrue" I should have used "inaccurate".

We work relentlessly each week to provide fresh and varied quality content for the Platinum Club and I could not let your inaccurate statements go uncorrected.

Lisa Buckalew
Platinum Club Coordinator

Wasn't referring to whats in the Platinum Club overall as there are indeed many items there...as for misinformation,I said nothing or next to nothing in response to the comment that DAZ drops 5 to 9 items a week in the Platinum Club which is indeed not the case.Also,it is not the case when you do put items in the Platinum Club that they are stand alone as on many weeks where there are new additions they might all be add ons.As for the discounts...problem there is you have to be someone who buys on a regular basis for that to make a difference...if you buy two or three items a week then maybe its a good deal,but then again most people don't do that. The end issue here for me is this Laurie,a product like the DAZ Big Cat should never go on the market without beta testing and if these were beta tested...then you need new beta testers cause the Big Cats came out like taxidermist rejects.As for the Platinum Club,I think you know as well as I that there is a lot of justified criticism there...you can point to release dates and the overall number of items,but that doesn't reflect a number of items released every week or a total per month not counting previous releases. You failed to look at the context in which the statements were made and if you would like to list products released each week/month in the Platinum Club in comparison to the number of items released by RDNA Real Deals and Poser Pros Pro Club...be my guest.As for the discounted prices...who needs them when you can get product upgrades like LaRoo2 for $5.00 if you own the original LaRoo vs paying $30.00 for V3 or M3 or Stephanie when the next release in the series is made.Is David that different from Michael 3 to be worth the asking price...not really when you consider he's just an alteration of the same unimesh from which the other characters originate. For all that the Platinum Club offers,the ones who promote it the most are those who buy a lot of stuff...but thats not your average consumer as many merchants are now discovering that lowering prices sell more because people who don't have as much money can see paying the lower price.For most its just a hobby and you've got to play into that which is the reason RDNA and Poser Pros do so well. The idea that to get a lower price you have to pay to join a club and go through periods when little new or of interest to you is added~then there are the DAZ promotions which often don't even reach most prospective buyers (note the extension of the $10.00 voucher and the fact that many didn't even know they had it)...the DAZ Platinum Club should drop the membership fee and just go with the same format employed by the competition so that all members can buy the items~any potential losses in member fees would be made up for with increased sales.

I'm a huge DAZ fan! Their customer relations is fantastic! Dan Farr is an amazing businessman and knows how to satisfy his customers. Look at all the freebies they give us! As for the Platinum Club, there's new stuff in there almost every day. Not all of it is something I particularly want, so I don't buy it, but there's new stuff showing up regularly. Just because I'm not interested in it doesn't mean there isn't something new. Armorbeast, when you say that it goes for months without anything new, that's only because you don't find something that you're interested in. We don't all have the same interests. It only means that nothing has been added that you wanted. I check it out daily and there's always something new, even if it's something I don't particularly want at that time. I've never regretted joining the Platinum Club. Even if a month or two goes by where I don't buy something, I've still saved a ton of money. Some of the $1.99 items I've bought were worth $30 or more, so it's still a great bargain. I just downloaded 10 free items! How can you beat that? And I got a great bargain with the Mil Teenagers with my $15 voucher. DAZ is amazing! As for the Mil Big Cat, I'm sure improvements will be coming along the way in the near future. I'll probably get it eventually, but just not right now. Melanie

" a total per month not counting previous releases." ?? I just gave you the totals / month .. those are the new # of products that were released each month.. "if you buy two or three items a week then maybe its a good deal, but then again most people don't do that" I have no idea were you are getting your stats from, how do you know what "most" people do? "I think you know as well as I that there is a lot of justified criticism there." I totally disagree, but you are entitled to your opinion. As for the Big Cat, Melain is right.. Daz is working on it and Lisa and I are making some texture maps for the BC.

Glad to see you return Melanie...maybe you love DAZ but again lol...now its gone from 5 to 9 a week to at least one a day.Now I too check into DAZ quite often and no...there's not something new there that often even if I didn't want it.My point is this Melanie...if you compare freebies at DAZ vs rosity,3DCommune and other sites like that...they do lag way behind and again its something they've been criticised for. My phylosphy in life is this regarding buying...if you have to move a mountain to find one diamond,don't be surprised if the mountain costs more than the diamond will ever be worth.The worth of an item is based on the worth we place on it...from my pov melanie,you should always recieve a quality product from the start and when you look at how often DAZ has to fix mistakes like what they're doing with Big Cats,the question has to be asked if they have quality control at DAZ because I don't think there's one person including Lisa and Laurie above would say that this product should have been released...it simply was not ready by any measure of the word!! Now I recognised both Laurie and Lisa from DAZ right off but didn't want to get into that because of course they're going to defend DAZ...but I just got back from there after noting how Laurie referred to release dates and found that the products don't have release dates on them~so I can see where that end of the argument will go as if she trys to prove it I'll just say how can we know she didn't make it up.I'm never surprised to hear people defend DAZ in regards to quality as they do put out some great products...but what surprises me is the lack of criticism they recieve when they botch something like this royally! In this case,however,even many people I refer to as DAZ Dead Heads were ready to tear DAZ a new one because they had really anticipated this release...no excuse for it and there should be an accounting especially with other products like the Mil Horse not living up to expectation.My concern isn't only for consumers here,I used to work in commercial advertising and what I see DAZ doing is what I've seen many other product manufacturers get sued for...let alone the lousy way they promote their products. As for the Platinum Club its just a matter of perspective...if you are a member of RDNA or Poser Pros you know that what I'm saying about low cost product release without membership fees is true...and just cause they slap a $30.00 price on something doesn't mean a thing when you compare it to the quality you get from the other sites products without membership fees. Then there's paying $39.99 or whatever for each time they release a new product from the same old unimesh...then all the injections and what have you have to be bought as well in seperate paks~when LaRoo was released she cost like $14.95 or such and the inj morphs were free,when LaRoo2 was released she only cost a $5.00 upgrade fee...regardless of whether you like LaRoo,it reveals that you don't have to pay through the nose each time DAZ updates a mesh. There will always be people who don't mind the set up at DAZ,but why do you think that the competition does so much better than them by in large?For all the criticism of rosity that we see in the forums,it nevertheless has more support than DAZ...RDNA,Poser Pros,3DCommune and others might be smaller but lets face facts~the sole reason DAZ even exists right now is Victoria and how the industry for some reason tailored itself so heavily to that one character!!For all its mistakes,as long as they have Victoria DAZ will survive...but if they keep goofing up like they did here with the Big Cats,even that may not be enough. You may think I'm being hard here melanie but I've found that being nice with these people only gets you more of the same...being a hammer makes them pay attention and in some cases even make changes that turn out to benefit everyone.Be nice and get screwed again when the next item like Big Cats comes out...lash out and let them know this is unacceptible and they'll remember next time cause if they don't the next wave of hammers will be even harder on them. I used to do commercial advertising like I said...it was my job at times to tell the client that they were wrong or even to come up with a whole new marketting strategy for them based on what they're doing wrong.In some cases successful business simply go into a slow decline,in some a prosperous business doesn't see how they are undermining their own future success...more than once I did ad campaigns for the rival of a former client and watched that former client go under because I knew where their every weakness was and tried to warn them before they went with someone else to do their advertising. But here's the ultimate slam...if I'm paying $99.00 a year for membership in the Platinum Club you better damn well not let everyone in free from month to month as I know they've done twice this year and a friend is trying to remind me it was three times (don't remember the third). Now melanie...if you're an annual subscriber,why are you paying membership fees if they're letting everyone in for free whenever they choose to? And to answer your last reply Laurie...why I get the info from the forums here,the other sites and from DAZ itself.If you want to argue facts then feel free to do so...but be careful as thats how I win my arguments~no release dates means its your word vs mine so even with your facts you'll lose.I'm arguing what people are saying and complaining about...you're trying to counter with facts and I'll win every time because you're coming at this the wrong way.Its the way DAZ usually does it...picks the wrong fights to make and then doesn't say a word when they really need to say something. I might also point out that being that my remarks about the Platinum Club were somewhat indirect and offhand...it someimes pays to let it slide especially since this thread was fading back in the pack~mistake,ya gotsta know when to grab the pebble grasshopper...especially since only a few people were even discussing this and melanie herself may not have replied had it not moved in this new direction.

I just looked at the Platinum Bonus Pack. Wow, you get to choose 20 items! Uh, there are only 22 items in the collection, and all too many of them don't interest me. Big flipping deal. Why not allow us to choose any 20 items from the entire PC collection? It's a good idea for DAZ to let non-PC members in to check things out. That will attract many new customers. Others, like myself, will buy as much as we can afford before the special is over. Then we'll wait for the next generous offer.

My point exactly lol...get in,get what you want and get out without paying the membership fee.I really don't have anything against DAZ except when there is a problem,if you dare bring up a problem in their forums or don't follow suit with the "I love them line",you're liable to get torn up by the members there...its almost as if some of these people have a spell cast on them that DAZ can do no wrong and even if they put out more defective products than anyone else,they always make it right:( But the ones I feel really sorry for are the ones who paid the annual membership fee only to get at those $1.99 items and then to see everyone let in free month after month...somethings wrong here y'know and I don't think its as effective in getting new members as you might think as why would you buy membership when you know they'll let you in for free again later;P But there's a reason why I addressed this in this manner as a few months back one of the insiders at DAZ released a statement telling how the Platinum Club wasn't doing as well as people thought which is why they opened the doors to everyone the first time round...it wasn't to get new members,it was to sell merchandise that they had excluded from most non club members and that wasn't selling as well to the members they do have.As stated here even by those who challenged my "assumptions",you may not like everything they release...well,neither do the Platinum Club members so the members with access don't buy as much as you'd hope and you have cut the rest of the "potential" consumer base off from access. The problem here is obvious...the people who buy membership largely do it for access to the $1.99 deals and may not even consider the rebates or monthly coupon.I have yet to hear anyone speak of joining for the voucher or the discount seperate from the low cost deal...its the $1.99 deals and thats all that matter.I have friends who joined the PC by paying an annual membership who won't be renewing specifically because of this...I think Laurie and Lisa thought I was just attacking,I was hoping to get them to move the conversation in this direction because its a no win deal. DAZ needs to either shut the door so that only members have the access they pay for or they need to drop the membership altogether because no ones gonna join at $99.00 a year for discounts and a voucher...thats a business pov,as for a consumer pov they can keep doing what they're doing and piss the annual membership buyers off so they won't renew.

Darn, I had a nice long response all typed in and it went into cybervoid! Shoot! Anyway, what I was trying to say, mainly to Armorbeast, is that my gripe wasn't against DAZ, and it really wasn't a gripe at all, just a comment that I wasn't too thrilled with the way the male lion looks. I think the Poser Big Cat has great potential. Armorbeast, you wonder why DAZ charges a fee to belong to the Platinum Club. Why not? I pay a fee to belong to PoserWorld and to Traveler's Props Club. I see nothing wrong with that. A few years ago, I paid a fee to belong to Catharina's site (whatever happened to her site, anyway?). DAZ putting a fee on the Platinum Club is not unique. I still have to applaud DAZ for their customer service. I've only had very positive experinces with them. The folks there bend over backward to please their customers and I have great respect for that. The quality of their products, like art, is highly subjective. I find a majority of their products to be of superior quality. Now and then, something is a little less, but heck, when I bake cookies, not all them turn out perfect either. All in all, I'm more than pleased with DAZ and the things they give us. Unfortunately, there's no business anywhere that can please everyone all the time. It's just nature. Armorbeast, you can't compare DAZ with RDNA or Renderosity, because those are member-based sites, where DAZ is a business that produces commercial products. We can't expect pages and pages of freebies from them in the same way as Renderosity and RDNA. I never meant for this thread to become a sounding board for DAZ bashing. Everyone has a right to his or her opinion and that's what makes a community like this so great. We all have the right to speak our mind. We don't have to agree with everyone, but we certainly have the right to be honest and say what we feel. Armorbeast, I respect your opinions, even if I don't necessarily agree with them. I'm still a big DAZ fan and always will be. I've been buying from them since they were still a part of Zygote and I'll continue to buy from them as long as they're there. To Dan and all the staff at DAZ, I just want to say, keep up the great work! Now, I'm going to go work on one of my projects. :) Melanie

I buy a subscription to Poserworld, and automatically get everything they've made. If I buy a membership in the Platinum Club, I get nothing. I still need to spend more money. That is a big difference.