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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Nov 11 8:37 pm)
Subject: Why does R'osity go along with PayPal?
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LOL! love that render! Excellent lighting, superb skin texture! and wow, what a bark! ;-) I particularly like the cross shape, reminding us all that women, who don't happen to get nailed to a cross (or stuck in a cross tube) should be working at home, raising their husbands children to higher moral standards than we were, apparently. overreacting? I don't think so. If Hitler had been shot earlier... they were not "overreacting" either...
"Chill, folks, yer overreacting." I respectfully disagree. I don't sell porno but i do sell texture/character packs which rely on showing nude images. The new rules are abso-fucking-lutely ridiculous in that I can no longer show nipples buttocks or the "genital area! on the products I sell.
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
Eh?
SamTherapy -- you can. In images 2 and 3 for any product. You just can't show them in the thumbnail, the first image, or in images pulled in from offsite. So that's two full 800 by 800 images that can show nudity for every texture. and you do great textures!
Message edited on: 11/15/2004 22:24
thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)
ynsaen, thanks for the advice and the compliment. :) I still think the new guidelines suck, though.
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
lol -- I just did Ardiva. Although I phrased it in the form of a question for them -- these are the same rules that Poser Pros and Daz have (actually less restrictive than DAZ's zero nudes). I'm in a bit of a bind as I'm not allowed to voice opinions right now -- and ya'll know how, um, er, eh, Opinionated I ca be, lol and yes, it's killing me, slowly
thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)
the following is a quote of a quote from the below thread. "Effective immediately Renderosity will no longer broker the following types of products: 1) Poses or activity were any person (regardless of age) appears that they "could" be engaged in sexual activity. 2) Items that appear "sexual in nature" or are intended for "adult audiences" (example: bondage gear)." is this a misquote (genuinely asking, i haven't seen the original)? if not, then pulling "items that appear 'sexual in nature'" is a lot more significant than having to pull a few thumbnails. that could include practically all but a few clothing outfits (like all of bat's stuff but 2 outfits, all underwear, most of as shanim's, even wusumah's clothes that have morphs exposing the body, almost all of the armor ever marketed). could is he opperative word here, i realize, but it's still worrisome. from what i've heard about pay pal and porn (people who have said their accounts have been frozen and for what), i don't think burying a picture 1 click deep is going to stop them from freezing accounts. i think they're finding it a significant source of income from how many people have mentioned it happening to them and from how little nudity was involved (philc's site? come on, now). i really mainly like the everyday, realistic items here, and some of the fantasy stuff that would actually work. but that does include realistic underwear. and i really like a lot of awful soul stuff. i guess what i'm saying is, i'm a big fan of using poser for more than yet another nviatws or pinup, and i'm concerned. if the above is correct and accurate, then i don't think the language of this announcement has produced a reaction out of proportion with its implication.
The folks who will be making that decisions will be the same folks who run the marketplace now. Given that their definitions of those two things are pretty clear cut, I'd say that ti will become something similar to the current situtation in the galleries -- that is, most of the time it won't be a huge deal, but then someone will cross the line and be rather peeved and post about it and it'll go nuts for a few hundred posts and then die out again. It's not quite an evil plot, although if ya buy into them, then heck, it may well could be....
thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)
I didn't read all of the above, but... What was once OK is not. So why was it OK then? OK seems to change from time to time. Doesn't it? Times have changed. I wasn't aware that under age people had credit cards and where able to shop here??? Most of us here are adults right? Is this an art community or a shopping mall? BUT!!! Click "Galleries" and then click "Most Viewed". They are all naked women and a few of them are really good (artistic) and some (most) of them belong in Hustler. I'd actually almost say that the rules could be bumped up more. Why not?
But what this new rule does do is GREATLY limit the style and design of fantasy and night wear that a designer can make and market. Many things people have to come here for because you simply will not find it at DAZ and I don't mean the typical Renderotica type stuff, I'm talking really cool stuff like what AwfulSoul makes and Batlabs, and GeryT, and that Barron Von guy (sorry I can't remember his name); and where will the Mermaid stuff go and Satyr and other Mytholigical creatures who do not always cover up but are not porn at all?? And what about those poor nekkid dragons???? Their Doomed cuz I aint never seen a dragon with 80% breast coverage!!! :*(
I for one am very pleased that Rendo has changed. I don't care what people do, render, make or sell, but I shouldn't have to see the questionable stuff when I'm looking for animals and toons. It's as unfair to people like me to leave it there as it is to take it away from people who like it. I can't even browse the gallery anymore because people don't check the nudity flag when they should. I actually don't like art involving humans at all - I'm only interested in animals, scenery, and surrealism (The Myst series dragged me into 3D, heh) so when I come here, I'd prefer to be able to browse the gallery and store for my escape from the world without having to slog through 50 pages of material that I don't want to see. And igohigh, non-morphic animals are not affected by this, and neither are creatures that are not anatomically correct. Look at my gallery - every figure in my renders is at least 50% naked. :P
Like it or not everyone has an opinion on decency even (or especially ) uptight folks!! (spelling I know lol) Anywho I was reading away and it seems not only are images 2 and 3 still allowed nudity, buuuut here's the good part, no one should be losing anything already in the marketplace or pending prior to the "change" as they are being "grandfathered" in....simply put the grandfather law means that if the rules are changed after the fact you are exempt from them.....Good news no?? Oh and if your wondering I need paypal won't and don't own a credit card sooooo please please don't ban me from shopping lol. Seriously though things likely won't change to much from what I can make of it............Hopefully ;)
Because, since no one wishes to see the difference in teh other other, I'll repost here...
Quote by Mehndi of PP
"When we first hooked up with Paypal, we had high hopes of qualifying for some of their programs that would have given us a good deal of very much needed free advertising and publicity, but because we had any nudity at all on our site, we were rejected, and put in the category of businesses Paypal was ashamed of. To qualify for those free services we would have to make, and enforce, a no nudity, no sexuality rule on our site. This is how strongly paypal feels on this subject matter."
I believe this is the reasoning.
Not Ashcroft, Visa or anything else... BTW - This quote is from back in Feb' 04 when a Snuff image was found on PPs site.
Message edited on: 11/16/2004 00:52
Actually things Will change a LOT. They will be rejecting many very nice things such as the ones I mentioned above simply because they are 'border line'. Maybe not right away, but as new people come on board or those who are currently on board but without the 'pull' they desire move up the proverbial ladder. Rules like these Do change things, they are the 'seeds', the foot holds that soon grow into monsters...or die out like the dinosaurs.
I have no sympathy for those who reject the proverbial 'liberalist' cuz I do not consider myself a liberal, I simply live and let live. What I like another does not and what I don't like another does so I just don't look at what I don't want to look at and only look at what I want to look at. It doesn't bother me that there is a ton of stuff in the gallery that "I don't want to see" cuz I just run a search and find the ones that I do want to see.
And ya know what, sometimes I see something I didn't expect to see and wouldn't have ever been looking for and yet I find I like it!!! Well Golly!?!
It's called living with an open mind in a multi-cultural world and striving for harmony.
Peace will never be found when all we do is run around trying to make everyone bend to our own will, nor will it ever be achieved running around and trying to ban anything and everything that someone somewhere might find offensive. It's called give-and-take, something we need more of and less of this neo-Nazi fascist PayPay/Visa/censorship crap.
P.S.
this is why I 'thumb my nose' at those who would wish to stifle my way of thinking and impose theirs upon me...(hypocrites)
Message edited on: 11/16/2004 01:14
First of all; I am swiss. I say this because of two reasons: We have maximum "nudity-freedom" and I will be maby misunderstud because of my language-skills. Anyway - here is my humble opinion. On the very left upper corner you can read the word art-community. OK. Art means freedom to me. If I am going to a museum I can spot nudity in every corner. My daughter (13) can see this images too. No problem. I think bare nipples are less dangerous than weapons of any kind. Art Community - that's what Renderosity says. So pleas stay art. I am not talking about nudity like Renderotica. I am talking about bare breast, bottoms etc. which are peacefully assembled in a picture. The new nudity-case starts in the shop-section. But how long does it take until it affects the galleries? If that happens, I guess it's the end of this community. I felt allways very comfortable here because I was allowed to show certain images I couldn't show in other places. I this luxury will be restricted in the near future all I can do is to show my art on my own website exclusively. That what be sad (not only because of my art but all these great artist who tend to use nudity in their work). I should invite the CEOs of Paypal and Renderosity to switzerland and show them a public newspaper-store. They would be scrade to death about all these bare breasts and sexual content mixed with Mickey Mouse-magazines and daily newspapers ;-) I hope Renderosity won't follow this new wave of non nudity....
"but because we had any nudity at all on our site, we were rejected, and put in the category of businesses Paypal was ashamed of. To qualify for those free services we would have to make, and enforce, a no nudity, no sexuality rule on our site." Renderosity has nudity in the galleries and will still have nudity in the marketplace. So they will not qualify for "some of their programs that would have given us a good deal of very much needed free advertising and publicity".
thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)
"But how long does it take until it affects the galleries?" This is a valid concern. I would say that as long as folks continue to follow the TOS as it is written, this won't happen. Renderosity is not about to close the galleries. The changes to the store, in fact, make the store more on par with the gallery requirements (as in thumbnails and immediate, unavoidable nudity). "I should invite the CEOs of Paypal and Renderosity to switzerland and show them a public newspaper-store. They would be scrade to death about all these bare breasts and sexual content mixed with Mickey Mouse-magazines and daily newspapers ;-)" Tim would likely take you up on that offer in a heartbeat. THe CEO of Paypal, however, currently owns a house in Switzerland somewhere according to one report I read. And I'll bet he doesn't go to the newspaper stands!
thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)
oliveramberg; being of German decent myself and having lived for three years in that great country and having many European friends (actually my last MCSE student was from Switzerland, is your name Ben?) I do know exactly what you are saying! America is too tight wound and doesn't realize that what they claim to be striving for they are actually pushing farther and farther away. These types bans that are allowed by these 'minorities' are the very reasons they/we have so much troubles. Face it, in the parts of the world where nudity is not viewed as something "dirty" or something "disgusting and obscene" there is far less sex crimes, less rape, less child abuse of sexual natures....it's because America is S-T-U-P-I-D and Immature. 'They' think they are the righteous but are really the apitamy of what they fear....go figure. Guess that's why throughout history the most famous Artists have not been spawned from the great United States of America. perhaps someday they will grow up.... But until then: FREE VICKIE'S BOOBS! FREE VICKIE'S BOOBS! FREE VICKIE'S BOOBS! FREE VICKIE'S BOOBS! FREE VICKIE'S BOOBS! FREE VICKIE'S BOOBS!
Renderosity goes along with PayPal because it is an international market and many, many people in other countries do not have credit cards. A lot of people here in America don't, either. I could probably use my debit card to shop, but would far rather use PayPal. (I move a small spot of money in and do my shopping with cash-on-hand without risking my checking account.)
I have no idea what percentage of the store sales (either by number or by dollar amount) are through PayPal, but I bet that it is a considerable chunk of change.
Also, I happen to be glad that some bondage gear and clitoris-flashing leatherbits will disappear from the front pages and thumbnails. This does bring it more in line with the galleries. As it is, when an image gets pulled, the artist will sometimes scream that he bought the "xxx" in the Marketplace, so how come he can't use it here. Texture sets do need to show the entire texture, but not on the first page.
Sex sells product, but so does quality and customer service. If all a merchant is selling is sex, I have to wonder. I also wonder about clone accounts when a new name appears just to start a flame-war
Carolly
Message edited on: 11/16/2004 02:22
I don't know why everyone thinks PayPal is the only way someone without credit cards can make online purchases. I haven't owned a credit card in almost 10 years and I have only had very little trouble making online purchases, and No troubles getting Poser products. Of course I am very leary about where I do business, but then that also helps me Save money ;p As far as purchasing from Rendo, Rotica, PoserPros, RDNA, BBay, and DAZ I have had years of pleasant shoping and no troubles other then my crumby dialup but All these stores have stood by me and I have never been 'ripped off'. I have even purchased from overseas independant vendors, but only after carfully scoping them out and looking to see what dealing other's have had with them....so far no troubles at all. Of course I can't get my purchase Right Now, Gimme, Gimme...but hey, I don't pay the 'extra fees' and neither does the store I purchase from. I too do not mind seeing bondage gear and such disapear as I have no use for those, but many items I do like do fall into the new Ban classification. Stuff like AwfulSoul, BatLabs, and many other 'fantasy' creators. I like fantasy and the Boris Vallejo style stuff, all of which will now be baned; I know this is not everyone's cup-of-tea but I have never complained about all the cutsie crap that will now fill those hallowed areas of the MP. Guess it's like I said, me and the others will just do the bulk of our shoping elsewhere once the great Poser creators like AwfulSoul and BatLabs and such get settled in...or wait, AwfulSoul has her own site!! (and here's RunTimeDNA - LOVE that stuff!)
Every piece of art offends someone. If a ban on 'offensive' art were truly implemented, there would be no art. This site, like all business' must make a profit. If however it starts to annoy its customers, they will go elsewhere. This site is not about pornography as clearly stated in the TOS, that's fine. If however nudity is going to be banned, that's not. The nude has been part of Western art since Minoan times, if that offends some people, tough. If they don't like nudity, they don't have to look. If nudes are appearing on parts of the site that they shouldn't, that's an entirely different issue. Offending images should be reported to the moderators and offending posters should be censured. It seems that we are returning to the levels of stupidity that in Victorian times put a fig-leaf on Michaelangelo's 'David'.
I quit using paypal, and don't and won't own a credit card. I do have a Visa check card that I use from an account that I don't keep a lot of cash in and has no overdraft. I think they should keep paypal for folks who don't want to use that option, but I won't sign up again. They have too many lawsuits against them and that makes me a wee bit nervous. Marque
I can understand the rule about no nudity in thumbnails and promo pic1. I'm not prudish but I understand people being uncomfortable with nudity being splashed on them. What makes me feel more doubtuful is the "no product intent for adult use". The bondage gear example is pretty straightforward. But who sould need an anatomically correct full body texture if it was not to make images suitable for adult audiences only (I'm not speaking of porn here) ? This leaves room for interpretation. Something that Renderosity has not always managed amazingly well in the past. Time will tell... Ditto with my Swiss friend : I am positively getting nervous to see weapons everywhere in this site. Seeing images of killing machines, glorified instruments of death, is utterly shocking. The display of such instruments is as contrary to good taste as a nude body can be. Where can I petition to have these offending pictures removed from thumbnails and promo pics 1 ?
As one of the few Americans posting in this thread, here's my opinions: Paypal is NOT America.. it is a HUGE company, like Visa, and American Express. It is one of the biggest online credit companies used for online purchases. Online companies like Rendo, Daz and PoserPros WANT and NEED to use them because they are the largest amd most accessable online credit options to the masses. It is fully their choice to adjust thier content rules, in order to accomodate Paypal's regulations. That doesn't mean the LIKE those rules, it means to maximize sales and traffic they NEED to use them. Personally, I could care less what content is in images anywhere, but I DO understand WHY these companies have adjusted. And lastly I DO take OFFENSE to calling all American S-T-U-P-I-D, because of ONE online credit companies regulations... THAT is truly speaking out of ignorance.
Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.
Ok, if there is no nudity in a texturemap promo pic then how am I supposed to know what the map looks like before I buy it? The idea is quite ridiculous and would simply force me to go somewhere else. It is not like the nudity is there to titilate - it's simply showing me the item I am going to spend my hard earned money buying. I would also point out that whether the promo image or thumbnail has nudity or not the character is nude where you apply the map anyway so whats's next - only fully clothed texturemaps? I find it v v v hard to believe that any poser user is really offended by this and if you are perhaps you should find another hobby or just do landscapes. The 'Tag' system on this site already puts up 'Content' advisory warnings in the market place if you have your account setup to work with them. This goes for everything else as well. If you are seeing images you find offensive (which I find hard to believe on this site) then try setting your account to filter out violence and nudity - problem solved? I can honestly say that I haven't seen one image here that I found to be offensive. Yes people have different views on morality but this is an art community and a certain amount of creative freedom should be given - just how much is ultimately down to RR. As for paypal, I use it for two reasons: 1) Safety as it stops me handing out my cc number to lots of different people. 2) Convenience. It's quick and easy. The saftey aspect is effectively null-and-void on a site like this as RR acts as an intermediary itself. And as for conveneience, if the puritanical rules of the service prevent customers buying what they want then it is not v convenient is it? And while we're on this subject imagine if your credit card company told you couldn't buy a particualr video because they objected to the content? Would you stand for that? No - you tell them to stick their card and go get another one. Paypal is popular but it is not the only way to do it. There's Waestern union, bidpay, a plain old fashioned debit card rather than credit card and probably numerous other options I haven't even considred. Thye haven't told me off for buying anything yet but if they did I would tell them where to get off.
Nakedness does not equate with pornography, we all come into the world naked, and what is more innocent than a newborn? Children see no harm in nakedness until they are taught to. To return to Biblical fundamentalism Adam was only ashamed of his own nudity after he had sinned. The evil perceived in nudity is the product of sick prurient minds. We are made in God's image, if it's good enough for Him, it's good enough for me!
As a 60-year-old American, I'm perfectly willing to endorse our international critic's suggestion that our culture is dumbing down with the enthusiasm of a drunk on stage at a strip joint. As for PayPal, they have questionable business practices and I cancelled my account more than a year ago. I don't do business with companies I know to be unethical. And if that seems a "hard word", search the forum for some commentary on what they have done to a few of your colleagues. On the other hand, they are welcome to espouse whatever values give them a soul-Jones, however hypocritical and self-serving and ugly. And I am perfectly welcome to not give them a nickel (and frankly, not eBay either) of my business. That, before the neocon revision, was how capitalism worked. Don't like places that sell guns? Don't shop there, and tell them why if you don't mind. Don't like places that exploit their workers? Don't shop there, and tell them why. Don't like books, magazines, movies, games, that promote violence? Don't buy them. Don't shop where they are sold, if you feel that strongly. And... well, you know. You don't HAVE to buy ANYTHING from ANYBODY. How hard is that? Think about it. I'll bet every one of us knows someone who is managing to get along just fine without the MFD for the MCube and perhaps without ever even seeing a real, honest-to-Jeff NVIATWS. M
Ok, if there is no nudity in a texturemap promo pic then how am I supposed to know what the map looks like before I buy it?
Yeah, but here's the thing ... the renders can be covered with, say, a bikini or something, which basically amounts to the other 80-90% of the texture being exposed. One should surely be able to judge the texture quality from that ... unless if you take the bikini off there is an image of a face sticking its tongue out at you. 8-)
Chances are, the remainder of the texture is of the same quality that the uncovered parts are. If that doesn't convince a person to buy it, then it's a good indication that the parts he/she was interested in the most were the parts that were covered.
We are made in God's image, if it's good enough for Him, it's good enough for me! Hmmm ... I'm supposed to look like God? Then I might have some parts missing. 8-)
Message edited on: 11/16/2004 09:28
80% fair enough? I happened to see the map that comes with Daz youngteens. Speaking of sick pornography! I do not see why a nipple could be less important or uglier than an eye, or a nose, or pubic hair be more dirty or shameful than hair on a head or an eyebrow. Th more repressed sex becomes the more agressive people get. Which is good in the yes of the talibanistic theocratic fascists that try to break our free will. mickma is right. You don't have to buy anything...
I have tried prudent planning long enough. From now I'll be mad. (Rumi)
The Internet porno is associated with economical crimes. If you buy some ting they may steel your credit card number and money. PayPal want not be associated with this and want to be seen as a safe alternative. PayPal wont be associated with porno because people are afraid to shop on the net. This is truly more important than the moralistic image. PP has not time for control al sites. PayPal having essay but stupid rules. All thing are gong to be porno. Even if the main reasons are economical it are clear that the rules is set by American prudish family values. Cal it fascism or not, it something wrong with big corps force the sites to make censure. Go to Rotica someone says. But if I wont to make some mild nudity not as pornography Im forced to put it in a pornographic site. All ting not included in PayPals bigot rules are going to be pornography. The net are to be cleaned from slightly erotic content and nudity an as a result the relay pornography on the net are going to growth. I have a god credit card, firewall; spywere scanner, antivirus and I trust Rendorosity. For me the best is if Rendorosity not are to use PaiPal but if I did not have a credit card I probably waned Renderosety to use PayPal. One possessive ting at last. The more tits = more hits phenomenon will be ended. Pictures are going to be more hited and comment by its render, composing and artistry, not by its nudity.
TG
"neo-Nazi fascist PayPay/Visa/censorship crap" Two centuries off ... Puritan heritage, remember. Ashcroftian authoritarianism, according to Conservative magazines have specifically denounced the Enlightenment as when Western Civilization renounced God. Similiar denouncemnts have been made against the Renaissance. Nazi/Fascist stuff is by far more liberal than the Neo Cromwellian Puritans of the modern Bumkinerie where ignorance is a virtue, tolerance a vice.
Gordon
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I'm surprised to see that move (see thread "Your choices in the marketplace..."). This effectively kills the poser world, who's going to buy a character based on a head, arms, and legs visible from the knee down? Rather than telling PayPal to shove it and use other payment processors (there are a-plenty), Renderosity decides to go along with this religious bigotry indoctrinated policy. Why? Has John Ashcroft and his religious police penetrated even the online community now? How many religous bigots does it take to screw in a light bulb? zero - They do it in the dark. So, I guess there's not much left than to wish everyone happy model shopping with the non-nipple-showing clothes textures that will have to be put over every boob now. Oh, and don't look at the screen inbetween applying clothes textures, you may see something so unusual as a naked human body. Aaahh!!!