(Request sticky)

Those of you with still intact memories will remember the famous Crystal Palace Challenge between myself and the equaly famous Draculaz some time ago.

Well once again the gauntlet has been tossed into the arena, this time by Danamo!

Why? Well it seems that Danamo thinks I've been insufferable and need bringing down a peg or two (in a friendly sort of way) so next month will see Wd3 and Bryce 5.5c at loggerheads in the hands of two kinda knowledgable(cough-cough) Brycers.

Here's the deal. The challenge starts on the 1st of October and lasts until the 30th October at noon GMT.

We will create a scene that will include the Steam Locomotive commanly known as the 'Flying Scotsman', Tender and Track. Landscape/scenery and such buildings or not as each sees fit. The loco will be fired up or not as each sees fit. Characters or not - our  choice. Carriages or not.

Danamo will create his loco & tender from scratch in W3D but will import to & render it in Bryce Version-whatever.

I will create my scene/loco etc using only Bryce - no imports from other apps - but allowing enhanced primitives that are available on Rendo freestuff. (See Spacebones - my new best friend)

The membership of the Bryce Forum will be formally invited to vote on the final renders for nolonger than 3 days after which Agent Smith will be respectfully invited to declare a winner.

WIPs will be posted as each sees fit, but each agrees to post at least 3 wips to keep the viewing membership on the edge of their seats. Each also agrees to post a wireframe.

Other Brycers may enter the challenge on the understanding that their work WILL NOT be judged as this challenge is between Danamo and The Bryster.

Yeah,.........sounds interesting(yawn),......why don't you convert to the way of true 3D enlightenment, C4D, (cough, cough), instead of folly and disillusionment ? (Aw geez,.......did I say that out loud ? Sorry !) However,.......I do eagerly await the pending release of Bryce 6 ! BTW,.........is there a solid, written in stone release date for that yet ?

Heretic!

is there a solid, written in stone release date for that yet

Nope, just "2006". So, hopefully before the start of the new year. (worst case scenario)

This should get a laugh:)

@AS, Why dont we organize a speed modelling comp like some of the other forums?

re xl palace: 
actually I never heard how that turned out...

Bryster and drac put on a great display, but the darkhorse (Brycetech) slipped up the middle and stole the show a bit.
Looking forward to this.

Is the thread for the palace thing still around?  I'd like to see that.

Mind you I also wanna see this one.

Attached Link: September 2004 Archives

Check through the September Archives for 2004, look for anything to do with Crystal Palace.  Multiple threads of Wips etc

the attached may be of use to you both,...hahahaha

Fran: Checkout my website. I put everything and more in the gallery.

BikerMouse: The general concensus was that I won. BryceTech did a great number but the laugh of the year was grabbed by Frogdot for his Matchstick Palace.....

RJ: Thanks! I've been looking all over for ref-pics!

this thread keeps reminding me of the time I raced two GTOs with my GTO. Two goats were set up to race at a street light. I got behind the one I thought would win and sure enough; as soon as there was enough space I pulled into the other lane and gunned it - smoked them both. It was kinda rude of me but I had to do it. I guess it's just human nature.

well anyrate - belated congrats Bryster - I knew you could do it.

Bryster and Danamo eh? might be interesting to keep an eye on.

Quote - Fran

Check through the September Archives for 2004, look for anything to do with Crystal Palace.  Multiple threads of Wips etc

Yeah, there's some pretty nice stuff there, thanks for the link.  I enjoyed it.  Specially Bryster's Pharaoh  statue.

@AS, Why dont we organize a speed modelling comp like some of the other forums?

Speed modeling?

Lol...this last Challenge has went on for six weeks, and we have only two entries....

Nah, I would say it's best if two or more of you want to battle it out, do so as Danamo & The Bryster are doing here, imho.

Myself as well as our friends from RenderGods hereby sponsor and support Danamo, as it is known that Wings3D is vastly superior in scope and breadth to whatever version of Bryce when it comes to modelling speed, accuracy and other stuff...

One thing I would like to suggest is that you clearly lay out the terms of the contest, what exactly will be judged, and have both work from the same reference photos (And only those reference photos), because it's perfectly possible that one of you will come out with a crappier version of the flying dutchman while at the same time having a better scene. Therefore I suggest a second render only of the flying dutchman, preferably without textures.

All that said, Dan's gonna smoke some Bryster behind.

m
ps: i'm also appointing myself the official bryster heckler. that is all. BOO TO BRYSTER!

Wings3D is vastly superior in scope and breadth to whatever version of Bryce

-Don't make me start modeling....you wouldn't like me when I model...

LOL!! And good luck to all! (errrmm.. both).

I certainly remember the great Crystal Palace Challnge, and enjoyed it immensly!

Greatly looking forward to this one:-))

Cheers,
Diolma

pfft.. bring it on, four-eyes :)

drac
(ps: wanna have our own little challenge on the side, there, chief?)

"Those of you with still intact memories will remember the famous Crystal Palace Challenge between myself and the equaly famous Draculaz some time ago."

There's a slight spelling mistake there: For "famous, read "infamous"...

Cheers, :-))
Diolma

(BTW, my memory is not still intact, the "tact" bit went walkabout some time ago, and the "in" bit shriveled into a corner and started glowering at those who had an indefensible allocation of talent)

One of the reasons that Drac lost our challenge is that he couldn't get his facts straight and while I appreciate his suggestions it would be nice if he actually bothered his scrawny-ass to read the challenge parameters correctly.

This is a challenge to created a scene containing the FLYING SCOTSMAN and not the Flying Dutchman as Drac seems to think. And as Danamo has agreed to the said conditions the challenge will go ahead as planned unless Danamo in concert with myself decides otherwise.

Don't ya just hate a sore loser?

(Bryster goes off to re-wire Robbie to give Drac a rectal re-cofiguration...)

i wrote dutchman? heh.. yeah, i searched for the flying dutchman train in google images and then figured out my booboo. just a brainfart :)

that said, you still smell.

m
ps: not a sore loser at all, just trying to iron out some stuff, take it or leave it, not my challenge :)
pps: give robbie a rectal and you've got me in the challenge as well

can I enter?

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=795134&member

(thats the link to the other challenge image that I kinda barged in to)

heh

I still think that froggy's version won for pure creativity and inspiration.  I still laugh when I see it.

and when do the WIP's start?

:)

BT

BT: The challenge starts on 1st October. But you're barred!!! LOLOLOLOLO :LOL:

Just kidding!

Looks like something that may come in handy to one or more participants in here.

My latest invention: **The Foot-out-of-Mouth Extractor.
**
I shall post a link to the file, for free download - as needed or for emergencies!

The means of modelling are a trade secret, and if I told you, I'd have to....[censored].....

Love Ya all, mwah

I am very pleased, and touched,(hey, I'm ticklish there!) that Drac and the rest of the Pantheon at RenderGods have seen fit to put their support behind me. I will do my utmost to triumph over my worthy adversary. The rules of the challenge seem reasonable and straightforward. A point of clarification if you would, Your Eminence. Are we are talking about the most modern "Flying Scotsman" also known as LNER 4472, rather than the CNR No.1 you probably knew as a boy?  You know, the one that had two drivers as large as the paddlewheels on the "Great Eastern"? Also, I would presume that our final renders would be, naked,"without gloves", no postwork so to speak?

We are in luck if it's the LNER 4472 as it may be the most photographed steam locomotive in the history of the World! I spent about 10 minutes searching and found at least 45 good reference shots, and a  very helpful dimensional drawing of the locomotive and tender. If you'd some links to what I've got so far I can either send them to you, or post them.

@Brycetech-I enjoyed and employed the stuff I learned from your old web-site, just a note of thanks. I would not mind if you would like to build your own scene based on this challenge, as long as you agree that you wouldn't be eligible for the "official voting" of the challenge. You know, TheBryster and me are going at it "Mano a Mano. If you were to participate fully it would be like three duelists, at dawn, on the field of honor As it is, when judging time is due we'll probably hear remarks like,"well, lets see, that one there doesn't suck as much as this one here, and OH JEEZ! WILL YOU LOOK AT THE SCENE THAT BRYCETECH BUILT!! Sorry, sometimes I get these premonition things...I would like to rig the model I build for animation in Carrara. Maybe you could also give us advice about animating our scenes.

Attached Link: http://www.theheritagetrail.co.uk/industrial/flying%20scotsman.htm

The Flying Scotsman

Ask anyone to name a famous locomotive and you can be almost guaranteed that the words 'Flying Scotsman' will immediately roll off the tongue. Designed by the famous engineer, Sir Herbert Nigel Gresley, the A1 class 'Gresley Pacifics' were intended for long distance express services. Although No. 1472 was the third of the A1's to be built during the ownership of the Great Northern Railway (GNR), she was the first new locomotive built for the newly formed London North Eastern Railway (LNER). This great locomotive was ready for her first public appearance on 22nd February 1923, and had cost £7944.

In 1924 the locomotives of LNER were renumbered - the renowned '4472' was given to her - and she was subsequently moved to London for the British Empire Exhibition. So successful was the exhibition that she also made an appearance in 1925. The 'Flying Scotsman' locomotive was named, unusually, after the famous train (in railway terminology 'the train' refers to the service - in this particular instance the 10.00 am from London Kings Cross to Edinburgh Waverley).

On 1st May 1928 she made her first historical landmark. Fitted with a specially designed corridor tender, allowing the crew to change in mid journey, the Flying Scotsman completed the first non-stop long distance journey from London Kings Cross to Edinburgh Waverley - some 392 miles in just over eight hours. On 30th November 1934 she again made history when she achieved the first authenticated 100mph for steam traction, whilst travelling between Leeds and London. Between these high points of her service, the Flying Scotsman continued her normal duties and was eventually upgraded to A3 class, although the prestigious express routes were gradually being taken over by Gresley's new A4 class locomotives.

In 1948 the four regional rail companies were nationalised to become British Rail and the Flying Scotsman was renumbered once again to '60103'. She continued in full service until 1963 when she was finally withdrawn having completed some 2,076,000 miles.

Rescued from the scrapyard, she was purchased by enthusiast, Alan Peglar on 16th April 1963 who continued to run her in main line service for short excursions. By 1969 the Flying Scotsman was the only steam train now running on the main line, and it was becoming increasingly difficult to maintain a regular schedule as the infrastructure for steam services was disappearing fast. In September of the same year, she was shipped to Boston, following an offer to embark on a North American tour. This proved disastrous for both the locomotive and her owner, as a change in the UK political climate resulted in many of the tours' sponsors pulling out, leaving her owner broke and the Flying Scotsman stranded at a US army base.

Her saviour came in the form of Sir William MacAlpine who, in February 1973, purchased her and arranged her safe return to England. Continuing to offer main line excursions, the Flying Scotsman also concentrated on touring the local preserved railways, where she was always guaranteed to be a crowd puller. In 1988 she embarked on a highly successful Australian tour, completing a world record non-stop run by steam of 422 miles. She was withdrawn from service for a second time on 28th April 1995 having suffered a cracked firebox.

On 23rd February 1996 Flying Scotsman was purchased by Dr Tony Marchington who proceeded to finance a major restoration, and on 4th July 1999 the beautifully restored Flying Scotsman made her inaugural run from Kings Cross to York. In early 2004 things were to change again when Flying Scotsman Plc., unable to secure an opportunity for a visitor centre in Edinburgh, put the locomotive up for sale. Fearing an overseas sale, a campaign was launched to save The Flying Scotsman for the nation. Donations poured in from young and old alike and, along with financial help from the Heritage Lottery Fund and Sir Richard Branson's 'Virgin' Group, the Flying Scotsman finally arrived at her new home at the National Railway Museum on 29th May 2004. Once again in public ownership after 41 years in private hands.

I haven't stipulated a particular scene - pov - compo - pic or whatever because I think it will be interesting to see how both Damano and myself envision this great locomotive.

Danamo: As this is (I hope) a bit less 'cut-throat' than the Crystal Palace challenge I would love to see your reference links. I've searched for ages to get some kind of blue-print info but failed miserably. I'll e-mail my stuff to you if you want.

I think minimal postwork should be allowed. Bryce 5.5s output isn't a sharp as it could be in some cases. I'm hoping they'll improve on that in B6.

Also, thanks to ConnieKat8 for her offering.

Finally - Are there any Bryce Purists out there who feel they can stand on my side of the tracks?

Looking forward to seeing both your efforts:)

@Conniekat8- Looks like a useful contraption! I suggest we send a truckload of 'em to Washington D.C. immediately! Might well be handy around here as well.

-"I haven't stipulated a particular scene - pov - compo - pic or whatever because I think it will be interesting to see how both Damano and myself envision this great locomotive"                                

I agree totally with this, (other than the misspelling of my moniker). I think I will model mine without the added "elephant ear" smoke deflectors you can see in some of the photos on the web. They make the locomotive look German somehow.

-"Danamo: As this is (I hope) a bit less 'cut-throat' than the Crystal Palace challenge I would love to see your reference links. I've searched for ages to get some kind of blue-print info but failed miserably. I'll e-mail my stuff to you if you want".

I also agree here. "Cutting throats" is not my style anyway. I'm more of a salt-and-lemon-juice-in-a-paper-cut kinda guy. I may gall and irritate, but we both live to 'fight" another day,LOL.  I'll send you a copy of the schematics and other links, just so we're both on a level playing field.

-"I think minimal postwork should be allowed. Bryce 5.5s output isn't a sharp as it could be in some cases. I'm hoping they'll improve on that in B6"

No arguments there*.* If we decide to add smoke and steam to our renders, it would be much easier to do so convincingly with the aid of postwork. I also am hoping that B6 will add improvements to the rendering of Volume materials.

Just a few thoughts....
If you guys are really serious about the "duel of the apps" to make it objective, there should be no postwork. With postwork, things can become a duel whom is better at postwork... Perhaps a short animation with a still or two showcasing the high res. rendering ability. That would make it near impossible to do a lot of postwork...

Either way, I think we'll see some outstanding work!
I'm tempted to test my abilities here too, but at the rate my life schedule is going, it may take me a year to complete it, and I don't want to be a 'mee tooo'. Being that have modelled things of this complexity in the past, and have a new program to get a better hang of, It's awfully tempting!

If you guys are really serious about the "duel of the apps"

ConnieKat8: It doesn't get more serious. LIves have been lost, reputations ruined, computers trashed, and all for far less than this kind of challenge. But thank you for your thoughts.

BTW - I don't do animations and the challenge dates aren't long enough for my pc.

Danamo: Sorry about mispelling your handle.  We seem to be in agreement. Unless you have other points to raise, I'll see you in cyberspace on the the 1st October. Don't be late! :biggrin:

And seeing as all the other Purists appear to have gone into hiding, I'll carry the Bryce flag alone and fly it in victory from the highest landscape I can render, whistleing a hearty tune, with hope in my heart I'll sing, sing, sing.......................

Oh! I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok - I sleep all night and I work all day.....

If I had any time to commit to it, I would.  ;o(

-"Just a few thoughts....
If you guys are really serious about the "duel of the apps" to make it objective, there should be no postwork. With postwork, things can become a duel whom is better at postwork... Perhaps a short animation with a still or two showcasing the high res. rendering ability. That would make it near impossible to do a lot of postwork...

Well Conniekat8, I did offer to do this challenge sans postwork, but His Eminence seemed to think that a little image editing might be required to polish our Bryce renders and make them purty enough. I will endeavor to do as many of the effects "prework" as possible so that I'll still be using Bryce's rendering engine, but I will take advantage of every tool that is available to me, especially if my opponent is using them.

 Besides, neither Bryster nor I are heavy postwork guys anyway. As Pakled's Uncle Roy Bob used to tell me,"son, you can put lipstick on a pig, but in the morning she ain't gonna look any purtier". I'm not sure, but I think what he meant was, you can do all the postwork you want, but if the model isn't convincing or well rendered in the first place, people(the judges) will be able to tell, and vote accordingly. Granted, there are PS mavens and geniuses here in the forum that can paint in details so well that you would be convinced that they were part of the original 3d render and my hat goes off to them, but I'm not one of them. I might use a little PS to help with smoke and steam, but that's about it.

my ass is hardly "scrawny"

m
(BOO TO BRYSTER! VICTORY FOR DANAMO! PIE FOR EVERYONE!)

We'll take your word for it!

Dibs on the apple pie...

Take anything Drac says with a grain of salt.

Suck of Lemon and a shot of Tequila

no, really, i could show you pictures..

drac
(totally not shy)

How very diplomatic of you..........:sleep:

fwiw

brycester can win easily if he'll model it in detail purely in Bryce.  Bryce will handle FARRRRRRRRRRRR more detail from it primitives than it will allow in imported detail.  It's a simple fact that no-one really wants to hear :)

luck to both.

I'll be watching (and then when its over, I'll show the one I build)..

heh

BT

It's a simple fact that no-one really wants to hear :)

-Preaching to the converted with me!

My scorpion tank has 195,000 polys. How much more detail do you need? Build it in Wings, render it in Bryce. Only way to go. Bryce is nice. Wings is better.

Yes I know. Heretic. Heretic. blah, blah, blah. But remember. THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE.

(I think) he means that you can (more easily) pack more Bryce primitive made polygons into a Bryce scene, than you can imported polygons.

i.e. - Bryce handles its own objects far better than it does with imported objects. (My old robot has like 850 Bryce primitives in it, at only around 89,000 polys).

SWEET Mech, btw Cyba_Storm! Really love the design.

Okay. Misunderstood.

I still feel Wings is a better modelling enviroment.

BOOLEANS SUCK. I have to say that. It is a condition of my Wings licence. Actually thats a lie. I just like pointing out to people BOOLEANS SUCK.

PS. BOOLEANS SUCK. And the DTE gives you a skin condition. Just look at AGENT SMITHS avatar.

Lol, yeah booleans take a strange sense of building notion, imho. That speaks volumes about myself.

I'll agree - I think Wings3D is the best modeling buddy that Bryce has. Bryce needs to interact with Wings, like it can with Studio. Then...we need a freeware uvmapping/painting utility to interact with, and then................

Very cool mech Cyba. I know this probably makes me a "hybrid heretic", but I'm intrigued by the possibility of importing Bryce6 boolean-built meshes into Wings and working on them further. Hopefully Bryce will export them as an object without Triangulating them. Wings works a lot easier and better with quads. The new 16bit greyscale capabilities should work even better with Cajomi's GeoControl, and AS's lattices will be so smooth he won't know what to do with himself,LOL.

If we could combine Bryce, with wings, and add the UV mapping system out of 3DS Max and something like GIMP for textures and I think you would have a pretty handy program.  Keep the price down and every time someone asked the question "Which is best?", I know what I would be advising them to get.

Some people are going to say UVMAPPER would be a better mapping choice, and I can't make a case against them. It is just a personal thing. Provide both as instillation options and let people decide.  

"...the possibility of importing Bryce6 boolean-built meshes into Wings and working on them further. Hopefully Bryce will export them as an object without Triangulating them"

-GOOD question to ask DAZ!

I love booleans!!!!!   :tongue2:

Needless to say this project didn't proceed much more than in these wip renders (it'll still be around on an old hard disk somewhere). It wasn't nearly as difficult as it was utterly tedious, and it didn't survive my attention span. This was when my mind was able to contain more than it does now. About concurrent with this I was hardwiring and star-earthing my CD player - not something for the sane and/or faint-hearted (I finished that project and the device still works, slaughtering some £10,000+ players that we get in at work occasionally). I wouldn't go to these places nowadays!

It's a shame meatballs don't work together with b-looneans. Now that would be an awesome combination.

PJF: My Hero!

This 3ds mesh by Jorg Gerlach either didn't come with textures or they wouldn't apply in ancient Bryce (or something similarly not very useful), so I added details by booleaning. All the panel lines, text and other markings are booleans. You cut them out with boolean negatives and then fill the gaps with different-coloured boolean intersections.

I like how I went and added a line all the way down the middle, despite having misspent too many hours of my youth filling in such gaps on plastic model kits (too much filler + impatience = melted model).

Bryster,

Since I use what little imagination I have to just do some renders in Bryce with no postwork of any kind, I know from where you stand here and I wholeheartedly will side with you as a Bryce 'Purist' in this great challenge. For what it's worth, I'll be there to cheering you on!

rstar