ROFL ThrommArcadia! You nailed it! giggles madly =o)

"STOAT" LOL :lol:

Thanks for the 'matter of perspective'.

I still like Philc's MAKE ART button in Wardrobe Wizard.   NOW THAT is a perspective resetter of the first order! ROFLOLMAO!

I really have to get Wardrobe Wizard.  I'm sucha knucklehead and keep forgetting when I pour money into my addiction.

Ooop, it's true, I'm not an artist, I'm an addict.  I'm in denial!

runs away arms waving in the air

(no, no, no, da Nile is in Egypt)

It is funny how the same arguments continue throughout the ages. When photography came out, and artists started using it to improve their level of realism, traditionalists were up in arms.

Not being a regular in the CG community, it is interesting to see the same arguments.

Good art consists of:

Good fundamental composition, lighting and rendering. The same is true wether it is traditional art or CG painting, or 3D.

Second; there are two types of artists. Amateurs looking to have fun, and serious ones. You can not hold amateurs to the same standards as professionals.

In traditional art you have paint by number kits. In 3D cg people offer kits.

Poser is just a tool like any other. The fact that it has a larger following of fun seekers does not diminish it's value as a tool.

I like the idea of a limerick contest as suggested earlier. Here's a couple of entries:

There was a young man from Concord
Who rendered V3 with a sword
The set was a temple,
Her clothes were not ample,
And the lady looked decidedly bored.

Or possibly:

There was a Max user from Mars
Who thought the sun shone out of his arse
But when he used Poser
Fools called him a loser
So he went back to rendering cars.

Quote - MAXUser 234 - OMG, Trekkiegrrl, is that Subsurface particle Scattering?  That is amazing, absolutely incredible, i'm putting it in my favs! 

3DMan - I like the lighting.

ModelMAstrr - Can you post a tutorial on how you got that lid to fit, I have had no luck!

MAYAlvrrr - This is the most pornographic Naked Teapot on a Tablecloth (NTOAT) I have ver seen, I'm reporting you to the Mods!

(Sorry, couldn't resist... I'm getting bored of this topic... lol)

I remember back in the old days (mid-80s) when the big deal in computer graphics was rendering Mandrills (a type of colorful ape). There was an April issue of the Communications of the ACM which had an article on "Ray-tracing Jello", which, although it was a serious and refereed article, also managed to cite Bill Cosby and Soupy Sales.

A CG elitist called Tess

Thought all Poser pics were a mess

Her world was all dashed

When she ran out of cash

But P7 was there and cost less.

One of things I notice is that alot of people who don't like poser have based their opinions on non-current versions they heard about once.

It's kind of strange to still see people at cgtalk say things like Poser is only stock textures...never fathoming that people paint their own or that poser has had a material editor for several versions.

But there is a reverse...you see more poser usage in the 2d section...where as illustration it is more excepted.  Also more and more people have admited that poser is in their professional pipeline for one reason or another.  Poser news gets time on the cg news board as well.

Sure poser is still used as an insult(some times even as an expressin of jelously..do a search for night elf on cgtalk...look at the eyecandy then read some of the first page comments)  and is banned from use in cgtalk challenges but that doesn't mean people don't use it there.  And if the image is good you can get some balenced critiques if you included what you did exactly.

Quote - I just quickly perused the link, but I sincerely (as in skeptical, scientific backing) doubt that any human has ever lived more than 120-something years.  To make it to 100 is 1 in a million.  To make it to 110 is 1 is 500 million.  To make it to 120 is 1 in a billion (or so).  200+ is 1 in several trillion (chance more than all humans - homo sapiens sapiens - that have ever existed and will exist for the next several centuries).  Such longetivity has never been recorded scientifically in all history (only in fairy tales and myths - see Bible).

Why?  It has nothing to do with eating yogurt religiously or being religiously yogurted.  In every cell is a genome based on DNA which has a little timer (Teleromase).  As cells die and reproduce, the number of these decrease.  When these are exhausted, the cells no longer reproduce.  If there is a possible 'fountain of youth', it is directly linked to that.  This doesn't take into account other internal/external factors, but it is a rather hard wall on human longetivity.

I'll believe that someone can live to 122, but not to 207! ;)

I don't have any links at the moment.  Perhaps I'll do a google later.  But I have seen some articles in the last year or two in which certain medical authorities (the AMA?) stated that a lifespan of 200 years for human beings is theoretically possible.  So I wouldn't just dismiss the story.

I've also seen some recent data elsewhere about the 207-year-old Englishman.  Unfortunately, I can't research it to find out where right now, as I'm at my office.  IIRC, the official records involved were some contemporaneous church birth, death & baptismal records, as well as tales from people who actually knew the man.  He raised more than one family, and he outlived his great-grandchildren.  The other article also gave the man's name.

I might do a little looking later.  It's interesting enough to follow-up.

BTW - this little OT reference was in conjunction with the fact that Van Gogh's work was considered to be virtually worthless by his contemporaries.  The elderly woman's personal assessment of Van Gogh sort of provides a hint as to why the negative attitude towards him prevailed during his own lifetime.

It's much easier to admire / idealize someone who you don't actually know.  Even if Leonard Nimoy claims to be the reincarnation of Van Gogh.

Way to stay OT peeps. Very interesting direction this link has taken, ...from some very creative limericks to Nimoy as Van Gogh. ::Skips off singing, "Bilbo Baggins"::

LOL Trekkie, that would fit right in any Max gallery!  You might want to try rendering it in an outdoor scene with shiny IBL reflections or the common "global" plastic-figure lighting though.  ;)

"There was a Max user from Mars
Who thought the sun shone out of his arse
But when he used Poser
Fools called him a loser
So he went back to rendering cars."

Bahaha, great stuff!   :D

SnowS

I'll put up the stock Bryce scene against it any day! (Way back in version 3 we were already making jokes about newbies and the mirror-texture sphere hovering over an endless water plane.) ((That teapot has a long and honorable 3d history, though. It could almost be called one of the archetypal objects.)) (((And I can't help seeing that some people still insist on seeing software preferences and usages as being a value judgement aimed at them personally. Look, sorry, averages trump. You want to be respected for using Poser, then you have to earn that as an individual. Does no good to cry "Validate me and my use of Poser; my art is just as worthy as yours is!" That still won't get you into Bruce's old Bryce Select gallery. Rendering in Bryce is required there.)))

Who's a Trekkie?  It ain't me......partly due to the silly cult-like following which such things always seem to inspire.....and partly due to claims about someone being Vincent Van Gogh.........

There once was a Vulcan who quoth "I am not Spock"
But Van Gogh's soul in his body did dock,
So he wrote up a book
And a kooky tale he did cook
So years later he quoth "I am SpocK"

(And he made lotsa money doin' it, too!  Logical.)

Goes off humming Bilbo Baggins...................

Ahem

Bryce has a reputation, too.  The difference being that all of the high-end app users actually know what Poser is -- even if they choose to despise it.

Whereas with Bryce, you're likely to be asked: "What's that?"

I remember back some years ago, a more clued-in friend watching a movie with some generated backgrounds with me and groaning "Oh, god, not those Bryce fractals again!" Of course Bryce has its own albatross to carry around; its not-entirely-earned reputation for month-long renders. If I had to think about it, I'd say Bryce stays clear of the arguments because it isn't seen as in competition for the same eyeballs. Bryce art tends towards large magical landscapes, and for those it fights with Vue and Mojo -- not with Maya or Max. It is, perhaps, a little more self-policing. I think what annoys outsiders to Poser is that it behaves more like kudzu; turn your back and Poser crops up again -- and every time you cut it back it seems there's more and more of it.

A young Poser artist from Tokyo
was a Trekkie and knew about Spock, too
And she sold lots of Art
being clever and smart
and told elitists off with a F*ck You

(sorry there's nothing that rhymes with my own hometown...)

Quote - (sorry there's nothing that rhymes with my own hometown...)

Pinnochio...
Broke, yo!

Quote - and every time you cut it back it seems there's more and more of it.

That's true -- and it's also more nutritious than either alfalfa or barley for use in animal feed.  The downside being that no one has figured out a way to cultivate kudzu and make it commercially viable.  In other words: ya can't make money off of kudzu.  And that's where the kudzu analogy with Poser breaks down. 

@Trekkiegirl: no offense.  Spock sells very, very well -- there's no doubt about that.  Hey, I can even still enjoy the occasional re-run of TOS on cable.

BTW - matters of personal taste don't encompass "elitism".  Elitism involves a (usually small) group of people setting themselves above all other comers -- gathering themselves together in little groups -- and then constantly spending their time sniping at those "stupid people" over there who're not nearly as ultimately cool as we are.  This attitude can be found in the hallowed environs of the Poser community...............

But aside from that -- not everyone at CGTalk is an elitist.  CGTalk is an excellent place for those who are interested in high-end 3D (but so are the forums here & elsewhere).  I'd suspect that most CGTalk members are simply professionals, just doing their jobs.  But there are definitely elistists to be found among them.

Elitism exists on the personal level; elitism is reflected in personal attitudes.  A user of MAYA is not automatically -- by definition -- an elitist.

"Which brings us to talent. The great intangible that no amount of schooling, no amount of plugins, no amount of $$$$$$$$ spent on content/application/whatever can provide. But here's the catch; no one has full blown talent. No one. Talent is like a tree; no matter =what=, you always start as a little nut in the dirt. I tripped over my writing talent quite by accident in high school. My worst subject was always engligh...mainly because it was always grammar, and for most real world situations, knowing how to split a participle just isn't all that important. But senior year, we were given a class long creative assignment; the old list of unrelated words to somehow work into something. A speech, short story, whatever. And the nut sprouted from the providing of a little bit of water and sunlight. But that tree of talent will only grow so long as it is given nourishment to grow...and faced with the storms of challenge to give it a reason to grow."  "Dale B"

I really, really; really agree with you here.  I personally started my "art career" at 5 lol, with crayons...(shhh i'll be 40 in april).  I drew snoopy and i was soo proud of myself.  I never stopped doing art, it just changed over the years.  Went from crayons to pencil to colored pencil....finally to acrylic paints.  Then I finally was able to get into to digital art, yup started that with pixel painting. 

I personally, don't see the problem with people using any medium they like.  As far as art goes, a picture my young children did i would put up against Van Gogh any day, because i like it, its special. I don't  like Van Gogh's art but that doesn't mean he's not an excellent artist.

I am new and the reason i stayed here is because i have met some really nice people.  For instance, if it weren't for a wonderful person here i probably never would have even made a human looking creature. She spent almost 12 hours online trying to help me.  Poser isnt that easy at least not for me.  I spend most of my time experimenting and every new picture seems to be teaching me a little more. 

As far as photography goes i find it to be its own artwork medium.  I have seen some beautiful photographs here and i find them to be just as good as anything else. 

Lol, im done now. 

If you had lived in Van Gogh's day, and if you had suggested that his work was someday going to sell for 100's of millions of dollars -- and that he would someday be considered by many to be one of the greatest artists of all time...........

.........you probably would have elicited a reaction not too far off from current reactions to comparisons of Poser with various high-end apps.  Only more so, no doubt.

Loving the Limmericks, btw!

Again, it is not the tool, it is what you do with it, and you really have to know how to pick your battles.  A Pose post on a mainly Maya site is going to be out of it's league.

It's like bringing a knife to a gun fight.

I will point out, though, that the original start of this was a posting on Deviant Art, and from what I've seen, everything flies there, so there members have nothing to get up in arms about.

Oh, and though I love Mr. Nimoy, think about this:

During the height of Star Trek's popularity in the late Sixties William Shatner agreed to do an album as it would be a hoot.

That was it, one album.  When ST ended he moved on and did other things like TJ Hooker.

Ove the course of the next decade Nimoy did ten albums and unliek Sahtner, he did many of the songs in character and went so far as to write his own, in character.

And he always seemed the normal one...

You don't get the point. I'm NOT from Tokyo.

Oh, oops.  I thought I was so clever.

Whatever happened to the original poster in this thread? I notice they never bothered to respond to any of the views offered by others. Rant and run eh?

I thought the whole idea of art is in the eye of the beholder? I am in a maya class right now. The first night we had to stand and tell the class why we were there....why I don't know. At any rate a kid looking to be about 20's stands up and says he's taking the class because he uses poser and it sucks. Said he was tired of just posing and wanted to create something. Never saw him again. I think poser has it's place. If you don't like what folks create don't look. If it makes them happy and they want to post it, well I see no rules against it. I love Maya. Plan on using it a lot. But I also just bought poser 7 because I feel there is a real use for it. Without poser I would not have been able to buy maya. Everyone needs to lay off each other and stop trying to shove your ideas of what art is down other people's throats. Life is too short. Get over yourselves and just create.
Marque

Pengy rarely spends time here. He doesn't like Renderosity much it seems. At least not anymore.

hmm..if someone of such advanced years was 1 in a billion, there should be at least 6 of them wandering around..;)

I remember from AC Clarke that there was an estimated 100 billion people who had ever lived (so for everyone who did, there was a star in our Galaxy). But hey, we're up in Sagan numbers there anyways..;)

The number of people who live to be 100 has been increasing steadily over time, so it will become more and more common. (Germany started Social Security under Bismark; and set the age limit at 65, because at that time, about 1% of Germans lived that long)

One thing that tickles me is that (correct me if I'm wrong) is that until about 2004, there were 2 widows of Civil War veterans living. The Union one died then, and the Confederate one was about 105 or so, if'n I remember (wonder if she'll tell all..;)

The only thing I ever heard about Soupy Sales was something that got him thrown off the air in the 60's

"Hey kids! What starts with 'f', and ends with 'uck', and you can say it on the air? That's right! Firetruck!..;)

I don't know art, but I know what I like..;)

Hehehe...

Once, a Trek fan from Aarhus,
Whose house was in a caboose,
Poser'ed all day,
And rendered all night,
'Teh Nose', naked, on a moose

And they said it couldn't be done (or was that "shouldn't"?) ;p

I love Pengy & his ability to cause a riot ;)

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1341053

(Image above contains nudity)

This is in response to the original post. This image is most everything he ranted about.

It's nearly completely 'canned' by someone else, including the set and pose (well the pose is slightly tweaked and I did change up the lights abit.)

While this image wouldn't win any awards, IMHO it can stand on it's own and I'm just a mediocre poser artist...a true master can do remarkable, spectacular things. 

Poser (Bryce, Max, etc.) doesn't make bad renders, novices make bad renders!

Time to stop dis'ing Poser!

Quote - > Quote - and every time you cut it back it seems there's more and more of it.

 

That's true -- and it's also more nutritious than either alfalfa or barley for use in animal feed.  The downside being that no one has figured out a way to cultivate kudzu and make it commercially viable.  In other words: ya can't make money off of kudzu.  And that's where the kudzu analogy with Poser breaks down. 

Actually that's not true...kudtzu and maylasian reeds (another weed which grows like kudtzu) can be used for biomass fuel...unfortunetly every time they try to cultivated it for this purpose idiots fight it because they don't like weeds growing..not realizing that it's cut it burn it and it comes back later nature makes for an excellent renewable fuel source. 

Quote - Hehehe...

Once, a Trek fan from Aarhus,
Whose house was in a caboose,
Poser'ed all day,
And rendered all night,
'Teh Nose', naked, on a moose

And they said it couldn't be done (or was that "shouldn't"?) ;p

ROFL! Except that it doesn't actually rhyme, it's a VERY nice try :o) (and funny and fitting and all that ;o) )

Hehe now I'll have to make a picture of Him on a moose... just because :lol:

quick haiku ;)

TrekkieGrrrl renders
her stuff always looks the best
how does she do it?

Actually, the Shat just put out an album in the last year or so entitled "Has Been".  Not sure how it compares to the wonderful "Transformed Man" which can fill a gap in any music collection.

Quote - And what with Wings3d, Blender and anim8tor being free > Quote -  

... Really? They really really is free? ... And I can model with them?? ... 

=by the way= applaudes to your rant

Don't we have this discussion every year or so? 

Either way, I don't really mind poserdom being an economy.

Money into the hobby of poser keeps renderosity / daz / runtimedna / poserpros afloat.  Which in turn lets talented people like aerysoul for example to continue doing what they do and the poser hobbyist do what they do.

Do I agree that 95% of the poser renders on here suck ass?  Yes, mine included which is why I now post like once a year.

I guess to summarize, Renderosity has been the way it is now for a long time, it's good for business. 

Quote - in ref. to: http://market.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2674155  Use a pencil and a sketch pad and use stick figures to explain it on paper to yourself if you can't draw. * make your own skin texture sometime. See how it turns out. No, seriously... try it sometime. I realize that half the merchants in here can't even do that without buying/swiping someone else's 'resource kit', but this'll be your golden opportunity to shine, and to do something useful. * Okay, if that was too tough, then how about making your own clothing textures? Don't even bother using someone else's. While you're at it, make your own transparency maps for them, and turn what you've got into whole different clothing... the things are damned easy to make, y'know? ...someday, you might even go through life without ever having the humiliation of buying a 'texture pack' again. * make your own unique character from a base figure, without resorting to buying someone else's and then just tweaking a few dials. Please. For me? * get a free modelling program (Wings ferinstance, or Amapi), and build your own set, your own props. It doesn't require a degree in graphic arts to build a few primitives tweaked out to resemble whatever it is you're trying to make. Once you've mastered that, get some clothing together, and make a bit. This way you don't have to go out and buy a bit of clothing and the 48 zillion add-on texture kits for it just to try to stand out.  /P

I must say I am amazed at how illogical those who make this type of rant are.    And to think 
you are complaining about other peoples logic!  So here is some tough love for you. 

First, I am not a kid.  Second where do you get off telling everyone what they should do with thier free time?    

In the thread you linked the guy said he does not model and is not interested in modeling.   What part of that do you not understand?  Poser is not even a modeling application.  Keep in mind that for many poser users: 
THE BEAUTY OF POSER IS THE FACT WE DON'T HAVE TO MODEL.    THE BEAUTY OF POSER IS WE DO NOT HAVE TO CREATE OUR OWN TEXTURES.  THE BEAUTY OF POSER IS OTHERS HAVE DONE THIS FOR US SO WE CAN SPEND OUR TIME DOING WHAT WE REALLY WANT TO DO IN 3D.  

I put this in caps becasue I think it may sink in better than when the other fellow said it in lower case.   

There are those who have plenty of time but no money and then there are those who have more money than time.  The latter group can use poser to do things like create animations and scenes without having to learn how to make a decent model. 

You talk fondly of the past.  Back then people with poser had to spend allot of time to make an image/animation look as good as it would be now in a short time.   You admire that.  Guess what?  I couldn't care less what you admire.  I'm glad things look good in a shorter amount of time and require less technical know how.   I am confident that trend will continue.

Guess what else?  As technology grows there will be more and more people like me.   You can continue to grumble like a old fusspot for the rest of your life, or you can accept that technology will improve and people with no interest in modeling or creating models will be joining the 3d community. 

You might wonder: What could these people possibly want to do if not create thier own models and thereby get the admiration of folks such as yourself?

Well if you actually read what you were responding to, the guy you linked to said he is interested in animation and creating animations.   He is like me.  Perhaps you should look at people like him and myself this way:  We woudl like to write and direct the movie but not have to be the costume designer.    Did Steven Spielberg stitch every piece of clothing used in the movie E.T.?  Did he himself apply everyones makeup and manufacture E.T.'s costume?  

I don't care whether you believe Steven Spielberg is an artist or not.  Nor do I care whether you admire what he and other directors do. (perhaps in your mind only the costume designers are worthy of admiration, whatever I don't care.)  But if you accept the fact that some people in the 3d world now want to do what Spielberg does as opposed to what the costume designers do, then you will not find yourself getting so "torqued off."  

We don't want to do the same things you are interested in doing.  Sorry, if this bothers you but there really is no reason to get mad about it.   And yes its completely irrational for you to get torqued about it.  

Creating models for a 3d animation and writng and directing a 3d animation are simply two different interests.

You tell poser users to think of a good story before they do thier animation.  Well guess what?  you have to do that no matter what software you use.   I have seen plenty of bad animation made with non-poser applications.  Learning how to make your own models in LW3d or Wings will not make your plot better.  In fact taking time to learn those programs will simply take time away from your story creation.    Poser is for people who want to spend the most time on the story and directing part of 3D animation.  No other software I am aware of does better at that then poser.
   
And one more thing please.... please..... stop telling others what they should be doing with thier free time.  Most of us are not "Kids" who need to be told what to do. 

I think a large part of the problem is that there is a Poser specific paradox.  It's not just the amount of free and commercial content that people are tempted to use, but also that it's always taken some kind of black magic to get things properly into Poser.  I used Caligari (predecessor to TrueSpace) for years to make mecha (giant robots), vehicles, buildings etc.  The one thing I couldn't do easily in it was to model figures as there were no bones, morphs etc.  When I bought Poser I had ideas of using Poser figures sparingly in the background to add a new element to my work.  I couldn't (and still can't) believe how difficult it was to get even simple props to work right.  It took ages for me to discover that the obj format was the most neutral among my various tools and even after learning UV mapping I still had the problem of Poser trying to smooth all of my objects' hard edges.  I've since learned more about object import/export settings, preserving my groups, and even a little rigging.  I don't want to use a text editor or some strangely named utility to hack together a figure, nor would I imagine anyone would who was drawn to Poser for it's famed "ease of use".  I'm surprised that I can't think of one single program, from Anim8or to zBrush, that a person can use to create a Poser ready figure without ever touching Poser, its various related utilities, or an existing premade figure.  Anyone? 

Someone save a link to this thread so the next time someone has a rant about it, we can just pull all this discussion up. ;'] Some good points there Rondino.

Quote - Please, drill that through your heads.
(CUT)
 

Nice 200,000 words preach. Too bad nobody asked for it.

You know something? People don't need your patronizing attitude.
So 99,9% of people here don't make art and just have fun with Poser?
That's their problem, not yours. Provided that this is a problem, that is (and I think it's not).
You are bothered by this? That's your problem, not ours.

Live and let live.

P.S.
"We don't need no education, we don't need no thought control"

Penguinisto,

I like all your points, they all click; especially creative thought.  How many big boobs and fat lips can one stand before we all yell a collective--ENOUGH!!! 

Say what you will about computer graphics, no matter the program, they are just another tool of artistic expression like a camera, paint brush, or hammer & chisel--it's the talent of the artist that will shine through. 

Personally speaking, learning the scope of a particular program drives my creative thought which in turn drives my desire to learn more.   For those who have a true love of art and want to create: they will be driven to learn from artists the rules and techniques to make the most of their talent and vision.

One of the things I appreciate most about Rendersoity is when a piece catches your eye, you can check out that persons gallery to see their progression: or often times wonder how it was done and thereby try and learn their technique; if the artist is willing to share and many do.

For those who are hobbyists, they will continue to make Vicky et al with big appendages to satisfy their prurient desires.  There is a distinction and Renderosity plays host to them all.  But that doesn't mean anyone has to give them attention.  When I go to an art museum, there are works I don't care for, same here.  Fortunately, some of that can be filtered.

Hopefully though, some will read your post and get it and Rendersoity will be the better for it.

Penguinisto !!!! This post should not be in the forum but in the main page of renderosity !!! I totaly agree with you !!!!! Someone told me one day  that click, click, comform to..., click, click and render does not make an artist.   And that's some of the cases with poser users. Poser is such a nice software !!!! There is so nice pictures but there is also so many craps as well.  I don't blame anybody because I myself do it sometimes (click and render...) . The only thing I can say is that there will be always this battle with poser against other 3d applications. It will stop when some poser user are going to take more seriously this software!!!!

quote:  THE BEAUTY OF POSER IS WE DO NOT HAVE TO CREATE OUR OWN TEXTURES.  THE BEAUTY OF POSER IS OTHERS HAVE DONE THIS FOR US SO WE CAN SPEND OUR TIME DOING WHAT WE REALLY WANT TO DO IN 3D.  

And, what, pray tell exactly what do you "Want" to actually DO in 3d.  You buy models, props, scenes, photoshop actions, poses, textures and premade light sets with that money that saves you time.....then what????   You hit "Render"?  Is that what you "DO" in 3d?

Quote:  "There are those who have plenty of time but no money and then there are those who have more money than time. " In my opinion, if you can use your money to buy the tools to give you more time to get to the nitty gritty of what you love to "DO"....there are no excuses anymore for crappy renders.  After all, that time you paid for can be put forward to try and make your render PERFECT.  Soooo, there is no excuse whatsoever for a poser user leaving vicki nekkid with crossed and vacant eyes in the middle of a poorly textured temple.  None whatsoever.

Also, it seems to me that it would be very hard to become good at animation without knowing the basics of "rigging" a character.  Yet, in order to optimally rig a character, the mesh show have certain optimum flows....(ie topology in facial areas....joints, poly counts, etc.)  Are you saying that you want to animate, but only something that someone else has modelled and rigged?  That's kinda another sort of "make art" button, isn't it?  " I wanna call myself an animator, but don't want to have to learn the basic craft at the bottom of all animations. : Sheesh.

Am I insulted?  Nope.  Do I do EVERYTHING you ranted about?  Yup.  I'm not going to stop doing it either.  I don't create art for you or anyone else.  I make it for me.  If anyone happens to enjoy it, then great.  I like to share.  If nobody comments or cares, it's really no skin off my back.  It's a HOBBY for me.  Hobbiests, last I checked, aren't required to be professional anything. 

I can't model, been trying to learn and it's sloooooooow going.  I can do simple texturing.  Complicated texture mapping seems beyond me.  Am I ashamed of any of it?  Nope, not at all and those who make their living doing this love me for it.  :lol:

I have to add that I looooove the condescending attitudes of some of you guys.  Get off your high horses, stop worrying about what 'everybody else' is doing and do your own thing.  You'll wake up a lot happier in the morning if you aren't worrying about what lazy, untalented slobs like us are doing.

Just a thought.

Quote - quote:  THE BEAUTY OF POSER IS WE DO NOT HAVE TO CREATE OUR OWN TEXTURES.  THE BEAUTY OF POSER IS OTHERS HAVE DONE THIS FOR US SO WE CAN SPEND OUR TIME DOING WHAT WE REALLY WANT TO DO IN 3D.  

And, what, pray tell exactly what do you "Want" to actually DO in 3d.  You buy models, props, scenes, photoshop actions, poses, textures and premade light sets with that money that saves you time.....then what????   You hit "Render"?  Is that what you "DO" in 3d?

I answered this in my origial post.  Knowing someone like you would not understand why anyone other than those who want to make models and content woudl be here.   Why don't you read my answer to this question?  

Understand that not everyone is interested int he same things you are.  

And by the way, why do the vast majority of female figures in this joint have lips that look like an inflamed horse's anus? The truth may sound painful, but it's so hilarious! Go Pengy!

Quote - quote: 
Also, it seems to me that it would be very hard to become good at animation without knowing the basics of "rigging" a character.  Yet, in order to optimally rig a character, the mesh show have certain optimum flows....(ie topology in facial areas....joints, poly counts, etc.)  Are you saying that you want to animate, but only something that someone else has modelled and rigged?  That's kinda another sort of "make art" button, isn't it?  

I want to create the script and direct the characters in the animation.   I would like them to look as good as they can.   Hence I am forced to learn a bit about 3d.   Yes thats right forced.  I do not want to learn the technical stuff.  I would much prefer that all the characters were premade and perfect and a hundred times easier to use.   I don't care whether you consider what I would like to do "art" or not.  Nor do l care what you think of writers and directors generally.    

Wow, Pengy, rant and run, huh?

As far as your /rant goes, some of what you listed I do, some I don't. I've tried modeling. I suck at it. My texturing capability is just as bad.

Conversely I rarely use pre-made poses, preferring to start from scratch. Pre-made poses rarely get the effect I'm looking for, especially the romantic poses I'm so fond of. Ditto lighting. Sorry, I don't have a digital camera nor do I own a scanner, so I don't create my own backgrounds.

I'm fiendish about using twisting and turning facial expressions and dials. Pre-mades don't cut it for me, especially with male figures. A lot of what I do have in the female characters are left over from all the beta-testing I used to do a couple of years ago, so I use 'em.

I've been around since "the good old days" and honestly they weren't what you're cracking them up to be. Aside from Poser 5 (which yes, I did use) the leaps forward have been nothing short of astounding. Even with Poser 5 we had several advances that, depending on the user viewpoint, outweighed the bugs.

Also, bear in mind, that even if someone uses everything pre-fab and clicks on render, that doesn't mean it'll come out worth looking at. The same goes for all the hard work you described.

One more thing to think about as well, while we're on the subject. I'll use myself as an example. I'm a mother of two sons, both just recently becoming adults. I work a standard forty-hour week, go to school part-time to get my Bachelors (MIS), am partially disabled, author romantic fiction, and do all the things real people do. I do NOT have the time to work everything from scratch. It takes hours to create a good render anyway (have one on my hard drive I've been at for two months now, in my spare time). I'm not about to figure in texture creating, modeling, and most of the other things you suggested.

There's my annual rant.

Linda

Lot of red sweaters posting on this thread.