Before somebody starts shooting me down let me say that this thread is asking people for their personal views.
I appreciate that its early days for V4 so I stand to be proven wrong with whatever I say here.  BUT, since her release, I honestly find the V4 character to be dull and boring.
In my opinion, the V4 characters that are currently on offer here at Rosity and on other sites do not improve V4.

Now I can hear what some of you folks are going to say to me, if you don't like V4 you don't have to use her (of course I don't, she fills a place if you need to use this character), and PXP you have no artistic talent otherwise you would be able to make something out of it; but that's my point, at present, and from what I have seen, the vendors are not coming up with anything great, and I am not blaming the vendors I believe its what V4 lacks. 

TRUE, the V4 morphs are better and there are other improvements over V3 but V4 doesn't have any charisma, as far as I am concerned she doesn't.

For one thing every time I see a V4 character, the head looks too big for the body and there's something always wrong about it. Ironically V4 seems to be very sterotyped because whatever is done with the face still has that same underlying V4 lifeless look.

Now please don't throw bricks at me but show me something you have seen or created with V4 that truly warrants a five star+ rating and gives this character true charisma and I will be very happy to take back everything that I have said about it, even buy it!!!

Are you looking to build an army of peasants with torches and pitchforks?  What's your goal?  Don't like her, don't buy her

Hm,everybody has his likes and dislikes.When I first opened V3 I knew imidiatly I don't like her.Now after years of various morphpacks I was totally fed up.As you think of V4's head is too big , I have allways thought V3's head is to small.She looks too much like a 1,90m Amazon to me.So I am glad V4 is out now ,allthough I admitt V3's mapping was a lot better.V4 is a beauty right out of the box and easy to morph.Personally I don't want to see any V3 stuff ever again.I would be happy if there was a tool that converts V3 stuff to V4.---Yes,the eyes are too big ,but that is easy to fix via morphforms.---cheers

First off, the blank look is something you as an artist need to correct. It is not up to the merchant to provide a personality. Facial expressions, poses, etc will go a long way to fixing this.

Two, It's a modificationof the "don't like, don't buy..."

You are not limited to what the merchants are producing. If you have the Morphs for v4, experiment! Find something you like and do with it. I am doing that currently with the V4 character I'm working on for personal use. That is the beauty of such products, you are only limited by your imagination.

Please keep in mind this is only a WIP image.

Nothing anybody shows you or says to you will probably change your mind.
I'm not going to "sell" her to you with an image. Either you love her or hate her.
Everyone has their personal taste for "charisma". I find alot of actors or singers that other's rave about have absolutely no appeal to me what-so-ever, same goes with 3D figures, and no matter how good an image is with it, I won't run out and grab the figure used.

So, what would be the point of another "V4, what's good/bad about her" opinion thread?

Timberwolf: A wolf after my own heart! 

I love her too.  Charisma is more a personality trait.  That would be how she expresses herself and since she can't - you - the artist - have to use the dials you have to make that happen.  Have you tried any of the smile dials?  Some of the most digital smiles I have seen use those dials as they move all the right facial elements and not just the mouth.  I think her head is more in proportion to a real womans head and V3's was like a pin head on top of a foot ball players with horrible arms and shoulders.  I will say a couple of things about V4 I don't like and I'm hoping that DAZ is paying attention to the feedback.  Her shoulders when arms are bent all the way up or forward .... well the mesh rips up.  It's not a clean nor convincing bend.  The eyebrows for all the morphs they have are really limited.  I have created 4 characters so far using Vittorio and incorporating V4's head morphs into the mix and find the eyebrows, for the most part, all look the same to me in the expression category.   There are like 4 solid dials and a bunch of L & R variation dials.  Now for some that's fine but there are missing tweaks that I hope are made available.  I've mentioned this to Vittorio's author and he's looking into it, so perhaps there is hope for this area.  Other than those to niggles I am very very happy with V4.  She's got charm and grace right out of the box.  That's saying allot coming from me considering I preferred Aiko but then she needed to be really tweaked up face wise to get her to look right as I'm not into Anime. 

V4 lacks charisma?  I don't think so, not in my opinion!!

Quote - First off, the blank look is something you as an artist need to correct. It is not up to the merchant to provide a personality. Facial expressions, poses, etc will go a long way to fixing this.

You know what, I guess I am becoming a snob or something, but I see soooooo many complaints that boil down to "I want to buy canned stuff and have it look awesome without touching anything".  I honestly would just as soon V4 had a face like a cueball, the default face is something I would simply never use for any purpose.

When a new model is released there is a limited number of add-ons for it, such as textures, custom character morphs, etc.   No matter how many morphs you manipulate on a model if 100 people are all using the same texture in 100 renders, you're bound to find similarities.   I'd say give it time and you'll begin to see how different she can look.  

As for that lifeless look, it's up to the artist to make use of the tools available to change that.  V4 has, IMO, the best expression morphs of all the DAZ characters so far.  I like the her porportions, not like pinhead V3 - I always used to scale her head to 104-105%.  But I don't like her eyes and tend to scale those down - if everyone used all meshes as they are it would truly be boring, so don't be afraid of modifying according to your own tastes.

Here are a couple of examples how the standard textures that come with V4 can be changed to give her a different look.  I've added other eyebrows on the texture itself and a blush layer in the material room.   Not that I believe these warrant a five star+ rating but they do portray her a bit differently from what you might see out-of-the-box.

Ultimately, the choice will be yours if you NEED or WANT another female model.   I can never resist the new and usually get almost all human/toon meshes :)  And, hey, I'm not getting any percentage so I really have no vested interest in persuading you to buy :D

Oh, and please click on the image, these boards really do make a mess of compressing.

You are not alone Pjz. There is one problem with a lot of the questions today. There are a number of people looking for that infamous "Make Art" button.

It doesn't exist.

Quote - You are not alone Pjz. There is one problem with a lot of the questions today. There are a number of people looking for that infamous "Make Art" button.

It doesn't exist.

I have one. It's included in "Wardrobe Wizard", and it works fine.....
if it is just "ART" what you want.

:laugh:

I know this is going to sound stupid but V4 looks really CGI'ish to me, :P
I think it is the eyes...I am not talking morph packs or anything just the Daz3D renders

The DAZ renders frankly don't do V4 much justice (half of them have big nostril glow like she has a light bulb jammed up her nose)

I have to admit, at first glances I was not entirely impressed with V4.  Mostly due to the fact, getting the package, the only texture in there was low res.  This miffed me, it was given as a gift to me for christmas and I thought the bundle should have come with more.  I admit, this probably tainted my view.

I have yet to put out a render of her, and with good reason.  I am still seeing what she is capable of.   Its slightly harsh to judge a figure when renders are coming out within days/weeks of her release.  People are still learning what is capable, so to judge on test renders and playing around ones really isn't fair to the figure.

Again, simply why I havent posted anything with her yet.   Now, after toying with her a while, i do see there IS much more than meets the eye.  Yes the head is big, thats why there's a dial for HEAD SIZE. LOL.  I still do not like the concave rib action, though I wont totally go off on that yet as I'm sure somewhere in the dials I can correct it.  So far, no luck.  Though I tried a "pregnant" figure, I've been pregnant myself twice, no woman is pregnant with ribs sticking out lol.

Dead eyes, blank expressions, those are in the user, not the figure.  The same "blankness" could be attributed to ALL poser figures.  Give her some time, she'll come around no doubt.

V4 is now a part of my poser "arsenal", I do not, nor will I ever, rely too heavily on any one figure, they all have their good points, and bad.

Get real. Does Vicky 3 - in all her putrid pink, department store mannequin look have charisma? None of the Vicky or Poser models have it. It all depends on the texture, morphs and so on that you use. Then lighting, composition and so on. It's not the tool - it's how you use it, LOL! As my hubby says.......

One thing I've noticed, at least to me, is Daz has combined a lot of similar functionality from V3NG and William the Bloody's Poser Magic. If you haven't used either package you wouldn't notice it.

No one saiud it as good as Spanki in that other thread: with V4 you can, and have to do it all yourself because it's a blank (but very versatile!) mesh. Other meshes show more "character" but are more difficult to make into something completely different. Sidney is always Sidney, Miki is always Miki. If that's your liking, then that's ok. If you don't like V4, then search, or create, your own.

Heh. For that matter, the 3ds max box primitive doesn't have any charisma either, but, man, you should see the things people turn it into.

Oh wait, you have seen...just don't realize it...

I too am not here to convince you either way.  I let the creators and coders and marketeers say it all.  Since the release of Sydney and V4 at relatively the same time, V4 has greatly outnumbered the amount of items available to her.  Does that make her a better figure?  Abosultely not, in fact I would say that many of the skins and charachters currently available for V4 are  in my eyes, ugly.  Do I question their uselfulness, no.  I simply chose not to but them.  You say V4 lacks charimsa, I say you are misinformed.  No matter what character you chose, it's up to you the artist to breath life into her.  Do you take a lump of clay, place it on the wheel and comlain that it did not shape into a vase, no, you become the creator and make it what you wish.  Take V4, look into your creative nature, and I am sure you can create that special expression.

Quote - Heh. For that matter, the 3ds max box primitive doesn't have any charisma either, but, man, you should see the things people turn it into.

Oh wait, you have seen...just don't realize it...

Very true. A square doesn't look like a shoe, or human, but can be made to do so with a 3d program, piece of marble, etc.

I have to agree with most here. I'm glad charisma is lacking from the base model...it means that you will be able to add features to add your own charisma. I had never purchased a Victoria model (although took advantage of the free offers from DAZ), because it didn't seem to matter what somebody did, it always looked like a Victoria model. V4 changed my habit of a lifetime and I purchased her...and you know what, you can pretty much put your own stamp on her without it looking like the base model.

Now, your post brings up another point...and probably half the reason why Poser is frowned upon generally. Poser artists are often seen as lazy or unskilled (I know this isn't true, because we have all seen some amazing works by different artists), but I see no reason why you can't give this model charisma and character with just a little bit of time of dial turning etc.  Hell, if there isn't even a pose you require, then why not spend the time creating it in Poser or D/S and learn something...it isn't exactly rocket science.

If V4 isn't for you, don't buy it. Stay with what you are happy with, but don't purchase just because it's the latest thing.

Cheers

"Sidney is always Sidney".   I don't agree with that.   Sydney looks much more versatile than V4 to me (and I have never had much time for the internal Poser characters before Poser 7).

I agree with Kalypso, each new generation of Victoria has brought exactly the same complaints.  V4 has only just been released, there isn't even a decent set of "everyday" clothes available yet.  It takes time for artists to build products like morphs, texture sets and clothes.

If you render a NV4IATWAS out-of-the-box with Poser's default lighting setup (which, btw I think is an awful, awful setup that they should have fixed back in version 5) then yes, she's going to look ugly and lacking charisma.  But if you spend some time with the morph dials, get a decent texture,  maybe even take the time to put some clothes on her, and most importantly light her well, then you'll get something that shows her potential.

@pjz99 - hehe, love that sneer :)

V4 is the best!  Much more realistic than V3.  Better posing.

Oh, I wouldn't say "no charisma".  I've been using and loving AGentleMuse's Zinnia and Sassia...  They are very playful and cute, IMO!

From PXP. In reply to some of the things said here (some people have made some really useful and intelligent remarks).

What I should have said in the first place is that I am not an artist at least not in the field of 'Art' I have my strengths in other artistic fields.

Remarks such as 'You dont have to buy it!" is nonsense to me because so far I have not bought anything that uses V4 simply because I have not  yet seen anything that is leaps better than current V3 products and there are some amazing products out there for V3 contrary to what some people think or say and by the way, I have a huge library of V3 products already so please don't tell me to go and buy V3 stuff - what you should be saying is PXP I want you to buy my creation. If its that good I will buy V4 and your product too.

I am to you artist's the object for your reason for using V4 and spending time and effort making saleable products for it. I am your buyer. So listen up its coming from the horses mouth. I can only go by what I see. The textures for V4 at present are not exactly wonderful they are not realistic to me, the characters are not exactly convincing to me, infact they all look very similar to one another. Does this motivate you to be creative? If your not using V4 to make saleable products then there is little point reading this thread. What I want to see are really stunning V4 creations that I can use with my creations. I am not a gifted artist. who can make tremendous textures etc.

I am fully aware that its early days for V4 thats why I am prepared to wait and see what comes along and be proven wrong about V4 so prove it to me and I'll buy it. Now isn't that a lot better than saying 'Don't buy it!
 
There's suppose to be another morph package for V4 in the pipeline so who knows maybe that will make a big difference.

In my opinion i think she looks great,no not great ,shes very beautiful out of the box, but we provide the personality and beauty or dark side. She looks very Human, unlike what e-fronter provides, i am not a fan of any of there models.

Spoken like someone that is highly unfamiliar with the technical flaws in V3.

The problem is you are making judgement calls without owning the product a) and be expecting everyone else to make up your mind for you. You want to take the easy way out and expect the perfect model out of the package...

Not gonna happen. You need to make up your mind yourself.

Quote - and there are some amazing products out there for V3 contrary to what some people think or say and by the way, I have a huge library of V3 products already

sounds to me like you have nothing to discuss, why are you posting this?  enjoy your large collection of stuff you like, and do not buy what you don't like.  can't understand what you're trying to accomplish by starting and maintaining such a thread.

Quote - From PXP. In reply to some of the things said here (some people have made some really useful and intelligent remarks).

What I should have said in the first place is that I am not an artist at least not in the field of 'Art' I have my strengths in other artistic fields.

Remarks such as 'You dont have to buy it!" is nonsense to me because so far I have not bought anything that uses V4 simply because I have not  yet seen anything that is leaps better than current V3 products and there are some amazing products out there for V3 contrary to what some people think or say and by the way, I have a huge library of V3 products already so please don't tell me to go and buy V3 stuff - what you should be saying is PXP I want you to buy my creation. If its that good I will buy V4 and your product too.

I am to you artist's the object for your reason for using V4 and spending time and effort making saleable products for it. I am your buyer. So listen up its coming from the horses mouth. I can only go by what I see. The textures for V4 at present are not exactly wonderful they are not realistic to me, the characters are not exactly convincing to me, infact they all look very similar to one another. Does this motivate you to be creative? If your not using V4 to make saleable products then there is little point reading this thread. What I want to see are really stunning V4 creations that I can use with my creations. I am not a gifted artist. who can make tremendous textures etc.

I am fully aware that its early days for V4 thats why I am prepared to wait and see what comes along and be proven wrong about V4 so prove it to me and I'll buy it. Now isn't that a lot better than saying 'Don't buy it!
 
There's suppose to be another morph package for V4 in the pipeline so who knows maybe that will make a big difference.

I think some content providers might be having to create, or modify the magnet system to fit their characters. With a character like GND2, or Kielo that would probably be needed.
If you listed a few of your favourite content creators for V3, favourite characters/products, favourite genre's of art, a link to the sort of charisma you enjoy with V3, and find lacking in V4; someone could point you in the direction of such a profuct. I'm not really sure what you want to use her for, but from what I gather I don't believe there is such a product for V4 yet. Sorry I can't be of more help.

Sebastian

pjz99,
it is called a discussion...something to hash out a choice and information. something a "box" cant give you. why do you persist in taking any insult to v4 so personally?

frankly, the "look" is up to the artist. but if you dont have a morph altering program to create your own morphs then it gets hard to tweek out a face sometimes.
that is not saying a person is lacking in skill as an artist.
frankly I am glad that the purchasability of the product is not left up to the "selling" of some people that answer these threads, those that give "answers and attitude" to those that have questions or slight negative views of the new model.
yes all new models go through the "gripe and groan" phase. (most new things in life do)

but some are just asking simple things of people that are actually using v4. they want to know ease of use and such..just like anyone would ask "hey I see you have that new ground breaking car..how does it drive? does it handle well?" doesnt mean they arent good drivers..or anything else.
it is just a matter of wishing input from actual experience.

Play with the morph dials, and if you have Zbrush, Export/Imort her face as a morph target..

I NEVER do nudes, {In my gallery anyways!  }yet these are only test renders

V4 Dwarven Character Caught with her pant's down...As it were!

**
**
**My Dwarven Character nude.
**

Quote - pjz99,
it is called a discussion...something to hash out a choice and information. something a "box" cant give you. why do you persist in taking any insult to v4 so personally?

Are you guys in a club?  Do you think the original poster feels threatened by me or something?  Do you think he needs your help?  You two have both started very silly and incomprehensible threads that boil down to "someone give me a neato canned character that is just what I want".  Do you think that the merchants out there that make character packs are not eager to sell you some canned character that will be exactly what you want?  Do you think they'll work faster if you post more of these, or slower if you do not?  They're not morons, that's how they make their money. Threads like these would be just as likely to discourage someone from making V4 content, because you so clearly dislike the figure and feel compelled to post a lot about how much you dislike the figure - why is a merchant going to cater to you, when you say you're not going to buy V4?  Complaints of this type are the last thing they're going to listen to, any sane businessperson would prefer to make the easy sale rather than bend over for some one-off please-me request.

She looks good, but something is wrong with V4 and I don't know what it is.
Until now I didn't found any render of V4 that I liked, yes I know that is a very new character and much work will be done.
V3 I liked her from the first moment, V1/V2 I never used because I found her very ugly and Posette had her charm.
It can be only a question of taste, a lot of people talk very good about Miki, but I find her nothing atractive.

Out of curiosity what one was it you liked?

pjz99 frankly you keep saying " if you don't like her don't buy her" if you don't like these threads don't read them. you come in bashing snotting and generally acting rather rude. no one needs it. apparently "us two" aren't the only ones asking questions. if you don't like it..dont participate.
you are one amazingly rude and insulting person that is for sure.
also, no one is asking for a canned creation. trust me I do not need a "instant art button".
and I doubt others that have expressed similar dislike for her looks do either.

to those that come to these threads and actually give credible input and help out those with questions. a huge thank you. I know I appreciate it and I am sure the author of this thread does too.

Quote - She looks good, but something is wrong with V4 and I don't know what it is.
Until now I didn't found any render of V4 that I liked, yes I know that is a very new character and much work will be done.
V3 I liked her from the first moment, V1/V2 I never used because I found her very ugly and Posette had her charm.
It can be only a question of taste, a lot of people talk very good about Miki, but I find her nothing atractive.

I agree, from what I have seen in galleries, v4 moves -very- well. but something about her face. her eyes? her face? yet so many here cant put a finger on it lol.
v3 took abit to get use to, but she was great for morphing out individual looks. (though I adore aiko more lol) yes you had to do allot of joint fixes in post work but...she had a look that was nice. 
Id say get v4 while her bundle is nicely priced. and wait it out. I am sure there will be more out for her soon. (muscle morphs etc)if not..tuck her away till there is something that softens her. lol. 

Quote - pjz99 frankly you keep saying " if you don't like her don't buy her" if you don't like these threads don't read them. you come in bashing snotting and generally acting rather rude. no one needs it. apparently "us two" aren't the only ones asking questions. if you don't like it..dont participate.

Either you have vision problems, or reading comprehension problems, or some combination of the two.  If you think I've been rude, I encourage you to report my behavior to the moderator team, who will be very well prepared to straighten me out.

You asked for input - I gave you input (gave you in particular many screenshots) - you do not like the input - so that makes me rude?

To pjz99 from PXP:
I never thought for one moment that this thread would become such a heated debate. I am really very open to seeing/hearing what is going to be available for V4 and what's in the pipeline, and as far as I am concerned the best people to ask are the artists and the merchants.

At present I am holding back buying V4 because I have not yet seen anything that I like for V4 or V4 in general. So far V4 looks the same to me but its early days and I said that.

I have to rely on what great artists do with this character I simply do not have the gift of creating amazing textures for it. This does not mean I will never change my mind about V4 I am not anti V4 I simply expressed a personal view as I see it at this time and V4 does nothing for me yet.

pjz99 you are really sold on V4 and thats Ok. I'm not putting you down or saying something negative to you or making rebuffs.. "If you don't like don't buy it..." and if you read my opening thread I even predicted people would have views such as this. If you have artistic ability I will encourage you to show the community what you can do and who knows I might buy one of your products so a little tact goes a long way.

I made a personal remark about V4 with the proviso that I stand to be proven wrong in my judgement. When I said that  she does not have any 'Charisma' is was a subjective remark and I wanted to know what others think because with enough people expressing particular views we can get DAZ to improve on it and then we all know what everyone expects and wants. Isn't the Poser forum about raising questions about Poser products, seeking help and inviting good debate?

Quote - > Quote - pjz99 frankly you keep saying " if you don't like her don't buy her" if you don't like these threads don't read them. you come in bashing snotting and generally acting rather rude. no one needs it. apparently "us two" aren't the only ones asking questions. if you don't like it..dont participate.

 

Either you have vision problems, or reading comprehension problems, or some combination of the two.  If you think I've been rude, I encourage you to report my behavior to the moderator team, who will be very well prepared to straighten me out.

You asked for input - I gave you input (gave you in particular many screenshots) - you do not like the input - so that makes me rude?

 
no you are rude because you are beligerant and apparently personally afronted by any negative word against v4. you insult anyone that has a view of v4 that isnt your rose colored one. your approach is rude. 
-that- is why you are rude.
you refuse to allow a discussion go about anything do to with a negative point about v4 without jumping in and insulting people..-that- makes you rude.
to take a page from your book. by all means, please, if these threads are so silly and unimportant  -dont read them-. then you wont have an issue with a group of us that like to debate such matters.

Quote - To pjz99 from PXP:
I never thought for one moment that this thread would become such a heated debate. I am really very open to seeing/hearing what is going to be available for V4 and what's in the pipeline, and as far as I am concerned the best people to ask are the artists and the merchants.

At present I am holding back buying V4 because I have not yet seen anything that I like for V4 or V4 in general. So far V4 looks the same to me but its early days and I said that.

I have to rely on what great artists do with this character I simply do not have the gift of creating amazing textures for it. This does not mean I will never change my mind about V4 I am not anti V4 I simply expressed a personal view as I see it at this time and V4 does nothing for me yet.

pjz99 you are really sold on V4 and thats Ok. I'm not putting you down or saying something negative to you or making rebuffs.. "If you don't like don't buy it..." and if you read my opening thread I even predicted people would have views such as this. If you have artistic ability I will encourage you to show the community what you can do and who knows I might buy one of your products so a little tact goes a long way.

I made a personal remark about V4 with the proviso that I stand to be proven wrong in my judgement. When I said that  she does not have any 'Charisma' is was a subjective remark and I wanted to know what others think because with enough people expressing particular views we can get DAZ to improve on it and then we all know what everyone expects and wants. Isn't the Poser forum about raising questions about Poser products, seeking help and inviting good debate?

 
very well put. 
if enough people go " hmm something is just..not right with her face..." the imput helps promote growth of a product. 

Wow, you two sure put me in my place.  I'll have you know, I'm turning over a new leaf.  Today!

:rolleyes:

pjz99 said: "....Wow, you two sure put me in my place.  I'll have you know, I'm turning over a new leaf.  Today!"

PXP to pjz99: As far as I am concerned it's water under the bridge and no offence has been taken. Please get on with creating something amazing for V4.

PXP to DarkElegance: Thank you.

Attached Link: Full Sized Image:

So, I spent some time working with her and I've come to like her potential. Here is a thumb of my first WIP render of her and I think she looks very pretty. And that is using a free morph for her.

That;s a gorgeous face moprh, Porthos!

I think that finally it's not a contest between Sidney and V4. Both have their rights of existing and it's really unfortunate that Sidney only comes with P7. Which I won't buy. If Sidney were available separately and for a normal price, I'd certainly get her also.

I have always like the models to look like people I know not  Amazons, Muscle freaks,grapefuit breast people. These  are fine for fantasy renders and strip club scenes. But I like the women to have slightly less that aperfect figure with  natural looking breast a maybe a bit of body flab. Kalyposo's  pic is great , that is a great imitaion of life  When I first got V4 plain, I was not impressed. But after I morphed a few areas and applied a good commercial Hires texture I was totally amazed at the results. Apparently this model was designed  to do just that.... She takes morphes very well..Gone  from a high fashion model to the girl next door She has moved to number 1 on my list of favorites!!!

Thanks drifterlee! :)

Fom what I've seen of V4, the problem is the eyes--they're just too doll-like. I get they tried to make them more luminous or something, but I think the overdid it, and they don't look natural, which is a problem, since the eyes are always the first place you look when you look at a person. --Tim PS: Porthos: what is the hair prop you have for your thumbnail icon???