Quote - > Quote - perhaps for the conforming clothing.

Which is exactly the bug that causes F4 and the Toddler not to work correctly. Without clothing they work just fine. The Conforming Clothing is the issue.

As for scaling, I disagree as to which works better, but that is just an opinion, and we are both entitled to those. :) 

Bull, I can go into Poser right now and fix the toddler-f4 scaling problem just by actually setting the Poser scaling up.  glaseye has already made a fix.

Actually I cant go fix it since I deleted all my daz content.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - perhaps for the conforming clothing.

Which is exactly the bug that causes F4 and the Toddler not to work correctly. Without clothing they work just fine. The Conforming Clothing is the issue.

As for scaling, I disagree as to which works better, but that is just an opinion, and we are both entitled to those. :) 

Bull, I can go into Poser right now and fix the toddler-f4 scaling problem just by actually setting the Poser scaling up.  glaseye has already made a fix.

Actually I cant go fix it since I deleted all my daz content.

Again, then why would SM fix it? 

Let me get this straight, you can use Apollo's clothing with scaling on Apollo as conformers instead of posing them separately and applying the scaling separately in Poser? I would love a tutorial on how to do that, if you have time.

If you don't have time, no big deal, I have other software that handles it correctly, the way Anton designed it without work arounds. :)

I dont have Apollo, but I can fix the toddlers-f4's broken legs and arms, by setting up the scaling for Poser. Which also has to be done for each item of conforming clothing. It should have been done in the first place. It doesn't effect the ds single scale crap only how the figure scales in Poser.  If you want an example of properly set up Poser scaling then go look at Antonia, but you wont, you just repeat what others tell you is the problem.

phantom3d had some videos already that explained the supposed "poser bug" but they seem to be gone. There are these little vids which shows a bit about Poser scaling set up, its the same process for each bone.

www.youtube.com/watch
www.youtube.com/watch
www.youtube.com/watch

Oh hell!  I dont want to get drawn into any arguments here but here are the three videos explaining how to fix the F4 scaling thing. I just showed the collar/shldr, you'll have to extrapolate for the rest. It is all the same process.

anyway they are easy to fix but it takes time, and I am sure the problems with the kids are likely to be the same old same old. Of course since the poser scaling was not set up in the first place (at least IMHO,) You will have to adjust the scaling for every conforming item made from the f'd up rig, since they will all have the same problems as the base figure that they were made from.

Now I have said my piece and I dont want to argue I dont have time.  This is the way I see it and it works for me. :laugh:

www.youtube.com/watch
www.youtube.com/watch
www.youtube.com/watch

Sorry, in answer to the original post. No I wont be using the kids. not because of what ever is wrong with them but because I dont do any rendered scenes at all. I have not downloaded them yet but I will eventually get to it. I do like to look out of curiosity.

cheers,
Mike.

Quote - You will have to adjust the scaling for every conforming item made from the f'd up rig ...

Is that still true for PoserPro 2010 which is supposed to be able to include the scaling channels during conforming ?

I dont know for the kids, I have not looked.  But for F4 yes because M4 Poser scaling was never set up correctly in the first place, so it doesn't matter wheather or not the conforming clothing scales with the figure or not it will still have the same flaws as the original rig. Poser scaling is not so important in D/S and is alot of work to set up, but for Poser it's absolutely essential that the scaling is set up, and done right.

Well since they work in Poser 2010, again reportedly, I don't have 2010, then they aren't broken but work. And since the bug was resolved, then the issue clearly was Poser's not the figure's.

I certainly am not going to "Fix" M4 and his clothing, Apollo, and his clothing, and the Kids and their clothing, when they work, out of the box just fine. I have neither the time nor the inclination.

I get it you have something against DAZ3D. I don't care what it is. I have neither the time nor inclination to deal with that hatred either.

Good luck all.

I see the M4 puffy shoulder problem I always suffer when trying to fit a shirt to him, or really to any of he, M3, D3 and even Hiro.

me..I've done 1 pic with a kid in it, in the last 9 years. Haven't bothered to download any kid figures at all (having real ones around is enough for me...;)

Some of you guys sound like the Tea Party of 3D; bashing DAZ no matter what they do or what they release, sticking to archaic and outdated figures out of principle, and proudly exclaiming your runtimes are DAZ-free. Why do you always have to bitch about everything, can't you ever try following that old saying, how does it go?...if you can't say something nice, shut the freaking hell up.   :)

SnowS

Well I have found that mixing the G4 body, V4´s FBM´s and breastmorphs with Lyrra´s "V4 shape of a woman" (DAZ) gives some decent preteens, I´ll put up a render or two when I´m done with my "American Outlaw" series.

But I think I made some progress allready with V4, in this render:
www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1777990&user_id=530312&np&np
She´s supposed to be about 11-12 years old.

I am not sure how I am supposed to shut the freaking hell up when I need to figure out if I need to return my purchase or if I can maybe fix it I spend about 5k dollars on daz products a year alone and I feel that I have the right to voice my concerns and find solutions other then switch to DS or shut the freaking hell up its all your fault kind of answers when voicing a valid concern maybe my 5k a year they are loosing is not gonna hurt them but I am not going to support figures I can not fully use and this is what I am trying to figure out as far as the K4's are concerned so far I had more problems then fixes with them and that is using Poser Pro 2010 so I am not behind software wise other then using something else then DS. I do not believe in insults but that should go both ways.

Hey SnowSultan. What the hell are you doing here. I thought they had you locked up creating a high rez template for the Kids 4.

Quote - Some of you guys sound like the Tea Party of 3D; bashing DAZ no matter what they do or what they release, sticking to archaic and outdated figures out of principle, and proudly exclaiming your runtimes are DAZ-free. Why do you always have to bitch about everything, can't you ever try following that old saying, how does it go?...if you can't say something nice, shut the freaking hell up.   :)

SnowS

I wonder what took someone so long to say this..... But to be honest, in this thread it's totally out of place. There are some genuine concerns raised and DAZ sure could do a lot better then the did. It's fine to defend DAZ, no problem, but to use the same old phrases as always isn't going to cut is this time. Please add something more substantial to this thread, that is much more helpful :-)

As for the outdated figures, DAZ is giving all of us many reasons to stick to them, most of their new fidures sure aren't adding to much to old one or are major improvements, on the contrary, if we're honest, we all know that DAZ has lost the cutting edge. The problem is that most don't dare to speak it out loud, it won't take long before someone comes in telling you to shut up. I do find that kind of rude, telling someone to shut up as if he doesn't have a right to an opinion.

I'm glad that this time it isn't just a few who aren't happy with DAZ and telling all them to shut up is just ignoring what's going on.

Actually I have gotten refunds for a lot of items at Daz and they have always been nice about it. I downloaded the new kids but after looking at them and finding out you can't scale the toddler in Poser I opted out on buying anything for them. As far as defending Daz every time they release a loser product, I can't see that. I give my opinion here and elsewhere without worrying if someone at Daz doesn't approve, I also give my opinion on a product with my wallet. If it isn't up to snuff then I don't buy it or I get a refund and delete it. Just because you state your opinion some folks think you are trolling, I just ignore them and move on. Everyone has a right to their opinion I have the right to disagree with it, but not to attack them for it. I was under the impression that the Poser forum is for the exchange of information, good or bad. No one from Daz should be coming in and telling folks they should go to hell for expressing their opinion about a Daz product.

Quote - Actually I have gotten refunds for a lot of items at Daz and they have always been nice about it. I downloaded the new kids but after looking at them and finding out you can't scale the toddler in Poser I opted out on buying anything for them.

Except that the Toddler does indeed work in Poser. This is incorrect information. Like Apollo and Freak 4 the issue is conforming clothing and how Poser handles scaling in conforming clothing, not the figure itself.

There are four solutions to using the clothing in Poser.

1. SM fixes the bug. (Which they reportedly have for 2010 and also reportedly will for Poser 8.) 
2. Manually adjust the scaling for the clothing in the affected body parts. (Tedious but works)
3. There is a Python Script (Sorry I don't know who did it or where to get it.) that does the adjustment in 2 for you.
4. Adopt the Anton Solution, don't conform the clothing, apply the morphs, scaling and pose to the clothing separately and parent them to the figure.

Claims that the Toddler, Freak 4 and Apollo don't work in Poser are in error. Because of the bug DAZ3D can't claim that they are supported in Poser, but they do work.

Quote - As far as defending Daz every time they release a loser product, I can't see that. I give my opinion here and elsewhere without worrying if someone at Daz doesn't approve, I also give my opinion on a product with my wallet. If it isn't up to snuff then I don't buy it or I get a refund and delete it. Just because you state your opinion some folks think you are trolling, I just ignore them and move on. Everyone has a right to their opinion I have the right to disagree with it, but not to attack them for it. I was under the impression that the Poser forum is for the exchange of information, good or bad. No one from Daz should be coming in and telling folks they should go to hell for expressing their opinion about a Daz product.

Funny, the only vitriol I see in this thread comes not from DAZ3D, their employees PA's or even someone defending them but from those that have a grudge against DAZ3D. Granted I don't read everything in these forums, so I would be more than willing to adjust my statement, if you can show me where someone from DAZ3D told someone else to "Go to Hell" or similar about expressing their opinion, but it certainly isn't in this thread.

OK I did some research, here is the location of the script, it is by Dimension3D and it is free. www.contentparadise.com/productdetails.aspx

With that script the Toddler works in Poser, as does The Freak 4 and Apollo. (Some other neat scripts in that package too. )

Quote - OK I did some research, here is the location of the script, it is by Dimension3D and it is free. www.contentparadise.com/productdetails.aspx

With that script the Toddler works in Poser, as does The Freak 4 and Apollo. (Some other neat scripts in that package too. )

The scaling issue affecting the toddler is not the same as the issue with scaling and conforming clothing.

funny how ppl saying they don't like these figures 'have a grudge against Daz3D'

no. they don't. don't blow it out of proportion. they're just letting off steam.

now. can we just got on for a bit? Jen's due soon, so I don't think she needs the stress do you all?

hmm?

Quote - funny how ppl saying they don't like these figures 'have a grudge against Daz3D'

no. they don't. don't blow it out of proportion. they're just letting off steam.

now. can we just got on for a bit? Jen's due soon, so I don't think she needs the stress do you all?

hmm?

The only person I said had a grudge has a sig banner stating so.

no you said 'those' - plural.

Quote - no you said 'those' - plural.

I said > Quote - the only vitriol I see in this thread comes not from DAZ3D, their employees PA's or even someone defending them but from those that have a grudge against DAZ3D

Given the definition of vitriol, I stand by that statement.

**Quote - 2.**vitriol - abusive or venomous language used to express blame or censure or bitter deep-seated ill will

That does not mean or imply that anyone not supporting DAZ or these figures has a grudge, nor does it state or imply that everyone with a differing point of view is posting vitriolic statements. However those that are posting vitriolic statements, to this point, are the same people that appear to have a definite axe to grind against DAZ.

ENOUGH.
just drop it. I'm not dicussing it with you, I'm asking you to let it go. to stop. to cease this course of action.

be the better person. it's not worth your time or effort.

Quote - > Quote - OK I did some research, here is the location of the script, it is by Dimension3D and it is free. www.contentparadise.com/productdetails.aspx

With that script the Toddler works in Poser, as does The Freak 4 and Apollo. (Some other neat scripts in that package too. )

The scaling issue affecting the toddler is not the same as the issue with scaling and conforming clothing.

I stand corrected. I just loaded up Toddler in Poser 8 and it is not the "Scaling" bug that is causing the Toddler to not work correctly in Poser. There is a different issue.

Yeah, there's some issue with the head being mishapen or something like that ;o).

I haven't downloaded it, so I haven't seen it first hand, just saw a couple screen shots. Have no idea why it's doing it tho. I've heard Faeriewylde has a fix for it on their site tho, so it may yet be useable in Poser, but I for one, don't want to jump thru hoops just to make a figure "useable".

Laurie

Quote - ENOUGH.
just drop it. I'm not dicussing it with you, I'm asking you to let it go. to stop. to cease this course of action.

be the better person. it's not worth your time or effort.

So don't discuss it, but also don't misquote me or attribute something to me that I didn't say or imply and expect me to ignore it.

Oh, people!

I know a lot of us are dissatisfied with the Kids (and that is perfectly fine), but it really doesn't need to get nasty or argumentative, does it? Some of us think the Kids stink a little and some love em. No one's wrong and everyone's got their opinion. But we don't have to get mean.

In order for Daz to fix what we think needs fixing, we have to tell them what we think is wrong in a constructive way so they know exactly where we are coming from. That also goes for non-Daz merchants who may be thinking of creating addons for them.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled debate....lol....

Laurie

Quote - > Quote - ENOUGH.

just drop it. I'm not dicussing it with you, I'm asking you to let it go. to stop. to cease this course of action.

be the better person. it's not worth your time or effort.

So don't discuss it, but also don't misquote me or attribute something to me that I didn't say or imply and expect me to ignore it.

walks away, got dog food to buy, a garden to fix....

Sooner or later the issue will be resolved by either by SM, Daz3D or both. My only concern with the K4 figures is the lack of body Morphs. It appears there are 2? If that is the case how in the heck am I supposed to create a scene with  Spanky, Alfalfa, Buckwheat, Stymie, Darla, Chubby, Butch, Porky and Foggy?

:b_sad:

Quote - ...If that is the case how in the heck am I supposed to create a scene with  Spanky, Alfalfa, Buckwheat, Stymie, Darla, Chubby, Butch, Porky and Foggy?

:b_sad:

LOL....very carefully and with much patience ;o).

Laurie

Quote - Sooner or later the issue will be resolved by either by SM, Daz3D or both. My only concern with the K4 figures is the lack of body Morphs. It appears there are 2? If that is the case how in the heck am I supposed to create a scene with  Spanky, Alfalfa, Buckwheat, Stymie, Darla, Chubby, Butch, Porky and Foggy? :b_sad:

Morphs for V4 and M4 also work with the kids (with the usual obvious caveats), that might give you some more options.

Then of course there is the obvious option. Don't limit yourself to one set of figures. Regardless of Morphs, V4 starts to look the same after so many iterations.

Mix and match. K4, K3, the Quidam Boy and Girl, etc.

Which is why the K4 kids are a good addition. They provide more choices.

OK first of all, I didn't TELL anyone to shut the freaking hell up, I suggested it.  :)

Tashar: LOL, I finished the guides already, DAZ is just slow to post them. Should anyone need them, I'll post a link over at DAZ soon.

aeilkema: Of course I'm not against people voicing concerns about a product that doesn't work correctly, and I didn't come over here to tell you all to just be quiet and buy this product. What I don't like and won't sit quiet for is when a technical issue with a DAZ product becomes outright bashing of the company and all their products. "We all know DAZ has lost the cutting edge"? The kids are "Pure trash"?  Maybe V4 isn't working exactly as it should because of your system/program, but I would be very surprised if you didn't find it to be a superior figure if you could use it as intended.

Just because you state your opinion some folks think you are trolling, I just ignore them and move on. Everyone has a right to their opinion I have the right to disagree with it, but not to attack them for it. <<

Marque: Come on, I didn't tell anyone to go to hell. I'm really tired of people always screaming "everyone has a right to their opinion" when most of them mean is "I have a right to bitch and you'd better not disagree with me". Again, I  DID NOT tell anyone to shut up, I said you guys should try it sometime because that's all you do is complain about DAZ, whether they deserve it or not.

SnowS

Quote - In order for Daz to fix what we think needs fixing, we have to tell them what we think is wrong in a constructive way so they know exactly where we are coming from.
I now return you to your regularly scheduled debate....lol....

Laurie

Good luck with that angle.
In a nut shell they are saying that it is a Poser Problem with scaling.

I know, but my point was more the "constructive" part ;o). Even so, they can fix Poser scaling or not. I hardly use Daz figures anymore except for the version 3's....

Laurie

Personally I admit I am pretty dissapointed.
I waited months and months (or is it already over a year ?) for new kids and while I don't like V4 much, I noticed that M4 was a lot better.
(Both rigging-wise as well as the sculpting)

So I naturally imagined the new kids to be even better than M4, knowing that Matt and Maddie are also better than M3.

Unfortunately it seems that DAZ didn't invest too much energy both to make them "look" like actual children or to make them fully work in Poser.
(I mean, seriously: Just "TWO" bodymorphs in the morphs++ set ???)

I already have some pretty good 3rd generation kids as well as a preteen M4 I made myself, so I will just go on "breeding" my own little ones.

But it's still hard getting over the dissapointment that we "could" have had a professionally made new child mesh that could have been better than M4 had DAZ really wanted.

And another part of the problem is that DAZ HAS a defacto monopoly as 99% of the merchants support only them.
So if they don't do it, noone else will.

@SnowSultan..... I didn't say half of the things you make me say. I never said anything about V4 at all, neither mentioned anything about pure trash.

I said that DAZ has lost it cutting edge, though and I stand by that, because they have, they can do much better then they're doing. Problem is the want to be too much at the same time. When they used to create content only, they did well. Now they're trying to do many things and it shows, too many things to attend to, it's a shame.

Daz has indeed lost their edge, I've noticed it a lot lately and am glad they have a good refund policy. Snow maybe you should try shutting the hell up, at least as long as you work at Daz.  8^)

ah well...so much for the "constructive" part....sigh

Laurie

Aeilkema: sigh...I didn't say that YOU said all those things, I was saying that every time there's a problem with a DAZ product, it turns into general DAZ bashing. As for V4, I mentioned her as an example of a figure that you and many others have claimed (at some point) was flawed or not as good as other figures, when I believe you probably just haven't been able to use her (or any other DAZ figure) as DAZ intended.

Marque: What makes you say that DAZ has lost their edge then? The quality of the meshes seem the same, they still have good PAs, prices are still low...what is it you don't like? The concern about some products not working well in Poser is legitimate, but as others have said, it seems to be a Poser issue that DAZ can't always find a work around for.

FYI, I am not any sort of official representative for DAZ, nor am I intending to act as one. I'm only interrupting your little DAZ hate-fest because in my opinion only, you guys don't know what the hell you're talking about and "everyone's entitled to their opinion".   ;)

SnowS

hate-fest?

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

aka hate? ye gods. this is not even CLOSE to hate. don't exaggerate lad.

and please everyone. just STOP.

this is getting pointless.

Quote - hate-fest?

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

aka hate? ye gods. this is not even CLOSE to hate. don't exaggerate lad.

and please everyone. just STOP.

this is getting pointless.

As long as people are replying to the thread it isn't going to stop.

Getting? :) 

Arcebus makes a couple cute kids out of V4.

I went back to Poser 7 after having issues with P8. I downloaded the Kid4s, but now I'm wondering about trying to use them. Good thing they were free...

Quote - I went back to Poser 7 after having issues with P8. I downloaded the Kid4s, but now I'm wondering about trying to use them. Good thing they were free...

Shouldn't you try them?  

If there's so many problems with them, I'm not sure if I should or not. I only got them so I'd have them if I needed them. Like most everyone else, I'm pretty happy with the mil3 group of characters- all of my work uses either the Mil3 or Poser 5 or 6 characters- haven't had a good reason to try the others- I take that back. I have tried V4.1 and 2.  Like the outfits coming out for her better than the figure. Glad I have Wardrobe Wizard. I can convert for V3.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

aka hate? ye gods. this is not even CLOSE to hate. don't exaggerate lad.<<

Oh and here we go with the "there are far worse things in the world than 3D figures" business. I most certainly know what hate is and yes, I know this discussion doesn't rank up there with genocide, racism, and everything else wrong with the world.

I'm not going anywhere until I hear some legitimate reasons why so many in this thread have a problem with DAZ. Laurie says we should be constructive, and I honestly would like to hear something besides the usual "it's by DAZ, so it sucks"-sort of nonsense. You have a problem with lack of support for a certain figure, technical issues, prices, I'm all ears.

SnowS

Quote - FYI, I am not any sort of official representative for DAZ, nor am I intending to act as one

Quote - I'm not going anywhere until I hear some legitimate reasons why so many in this thread have a problem with DAZ. Laurie says we should be constructive, and I honestly would like to hear something besides the usual "it's by DAZ, so it sucks"-sort of nonsense. You have a problem with lack of support for a certain figure, technical issues, prices, I'm all ears.

Make your mind up

I'm locking this thread since it seems to be non productive at this point