Checked my messages over my breakfast coffee, and there's a note from Smith Micro that Miki 3.0 is out today - November 30. At a special price.

I'm a late convert to Miki. I only got Miki 2.0 a few months ago - but I was impressed. Yes, she's a little old fashioned compared to the G2 and P8 figures, and 4th generation Millennium figures. But she's far more advanced that the 3rd generation she was competing against.

And so I'm excited to see wat Miki 3.0 will bring to the party. I log on to Content Paradise and... where is she?

Then I remember. It's November 30 for me. I'm at GMT +4. Everyone at Smith Micro is still in sleepy la-la-land.

Now I have to wait until I'm home from work to get my hands on her. Curses.

Anybody else as excited about Miki 3.0?

I didn't get the newsletter so thanks for the heads-up.  I loved Miki 1 but haven't used Miki 2 as much due to none of the stuff from Miki 1 working with her.

That said though, I'll be taking a look over at CP later today.

didnt get to use 1 or 2 much, as they had VERY LITTLE  support.

so dont think I will get 3

Camping impatiently in front of my laptop waiting for release .

Poser 8 or 2010 only. Looks like poser 7 user and below cant user her and either can Daz Studio users.  I'm not investing in a new version of poser just to use this model so there s no reason for me to purchase it. That's a shame but that's how they want to do business.

Completely agree Klown. 

I use Poser 7 and see no need to upgrade.  A real shame I won't be able to get Miki 3, but there are plenty of other products out there that don't require P8 or 2010.

I wonder what it is in particular about the figure that requires P8?

Over the years various criticisms have been leveled at Poser's jointing methods. Some valid, some less so. Poser 8 made, in my view, significant improvements by providing a capsule fall off zone in addition to the sphere. I find this extra option very helpful indeed.

I would ask therefore, should new figures use these new features or totally ignore them under the banner of backwards compatibility? What is the point of making improvements if one is then criticized for using them?

DAZ Studio effectively copied the Poser joint format to enable it to load Poser figures. Its not beyond the realms of reason for them to copy this new option also. If they do not, then my interpretation would be, it is because they do not want to rather than it is not possible to.

Consider this, if DAZ Studio were to mirror the joint improvements pioneered by Poser 8 then maybe, just maybe, Vicky 5 would incorporate them also rather than being stuck with a rigging system that was created ten years ago.

Look to the future or be stuck in the past? Me, I'm moving forward :)

My undersanding is it's rigging and fall off zones. But I don't know it means she's completley unusable in D|S or Poser 7 and lower or if she might have limited usability.

The ugly part is I was waiting all summer for this model and this was a real slap in the face.

if thats all you have to worry about, I envy you.

@MagnusGreel

Hardy the only thing I worry about, this was about something I looked forward to, but not the highlight of my existance. I have learned howver it is unwise to argue with muppets, escpecially Crazy Harry who has a rather cathartic way of dealing with things.

@PhilC

I will concede you are right, you've been in this game since beofre I have and your logic is sound. I simply wish I could use the model in the software I have. I don't see Daz implimenting this kind of thing unless it's taken on by a 3rd party, which was the case for M2's neck seam, but daz has bugs in their system that have gone on for years without fixes or responses to the tracking system, so I'm just a little frustrated.

Phil, could the model work with limited functionality in Studio. I really don't know enough about the fall off zones to formulate any possiblity of yes or no?

Quote - Over the years various criticisms have been leveled at Poser's jointing methods. Some valid, some less so. Poser 8 made, in my view, significant improvements by providing a capsule fall off zone in addition to the sphere. I find this extra option very helpful indeed.

I would ask therefore, should new figures use these new features or totally ignore them under the banner of backwards compatibility? What is the point of making improvements if one is then criticized for using them?

DAZ Studio effectively copied the Poser joint format to enable it to load Poser figures. Its not beyond the realms of reason for them to copy this new option also. If they do not, then my interpretation would be, it is because they do not want to rather than it is not possible to.

Consider this, if DAZ Studio were to mirror the joint improvements pioneered by Poser 8 then maybe, just maybe, Vicky 5 would incorporate them also rather than being stuck with a rigging system that was created ten years ago.

Look to the future or be stuck in the past? Me, I'm moving forward :)

Unlike some people, I can't afford to buy the shiniest, latest and most powerful thingamabob that comes along. Not saying that you are just that  while it would be nice if V5 was compatible with P8 or lower when she comes out, if she's not, I'm going to do the same thing i plan to do with Miki 3... ignore her.

The difference is that I'm going to be saving a lot of money NOT trying to clothe a new model, and it's going to cost DAZ (or in this case SM) a lot of money in lost sales revenue. Like you say, that's the cost of progress.

this is classic poser community.

''hey i have a 10 years old softwarre. ''

i something was done better you need teh new software.

Question: does she bend better than V4?  That alone might make her worth trying out.

BTW, if enough people ask their favorite merchs to support Miki 3 and actually buy things for her, she'll be supported.

10 year old software isn't a complete picture. Poser 7 came out in 2006. Miki 3 is incompatible with it.

Quote - this is classic poser community.

 

''hey i have a 10 years old softwarre. ''

 

i something was done better you need teh new software.

I'm not criticizing the software. Not really even criticizing Miki 3. But news about the new rigging could have come out sooner and eased the pain. Hey, I have P8, but frankly, I prefer working in P7, so a new Miki wouldn't do me much good anyway.

Quote - this is classic poser community.

 

''hey i have a 10 years old softwarre. ''

 

i something was done better you need teh new software.

 

 

Poser 7 is hardly 10 year old software.  Since I only use Poser for setting up figures before importing them into Vue there isn't much point in my upgrading.  I think you're seeing a great moaning outcry where there is none.

No one so far has criticised Smith Micro, Miki 3 or any version of Poser - just voiced that it is a shame they won't be using the new figure.  If Miki 3 needs Poser 8 or 2010 for the enhanced rigging, then good on Smith Micro for adding the additions to both the software and their latest figure and good luck to the people that can use the new figure.

erm Poser 7 is built ON 10 year old software, with minor changes. P8 has the first major rigging changes.

I sense a fight coming up with much gnashing of teeth and impassioned posting. I'll be far away from it now.... runs for the hills

Attached Link: http://poser.smithmicro.com/miki.html

The illustrations, at the link, point out that the joints don't seem to be very much improved. The jumping image shows jutting knees and elbows with other images showing overexaggerated creases on the inner elbow. The fingers look unnatural in the patio image. The smile looks unnatural and awful.

More skilled artists should be able to produce better demo images, without retouching, than are shown on SM's official site.

Some of the facial expressions look good, but overall, the promotional images are unimpressive. Whatever advancements have been made with Miki 3 aren't on display.

Poser 7 doesn't have multiple falloff zones and 8/PP10 do.  So I imagine that's why you need the newer software.

But just give it a little time and I'm sure someone will produce a new rig for her so you can use her on 6 or 7.

She's here:

http://www.contentparadise.com/productdetails.aspx?pid=12338

Cannot download the Miki 3 zip .The download keeps crashing everytime - on firefox and Internet Explorer as well .

The download just finished for me. But I have to go off to my Applied Ethics class. Thankful that my grandfather liked my 3d renders and decided to put down the money for Poser Pro 2010 for me, so I can now use Miki 3. Still not a fan of PP's library system. I'm still so comfortable with the old style..

I'll try loading Miki 3 in Poser 7 to see what happens, after class.

287mb...

The textures make of bulk of data, they are supplying PNG's this time.

I get 297 Mb in textures (including clothing) and only 22 Mb for the Character.

First few test renders look OK to me, but that hair leaves a lot to be desired.

Bless CP for a separate lip material zone...   I know I could have added one but I don't get along with the polygon selection tools in Poser...  nor anything really...

So far I absolutely love this incarnation of Miki.  Of course I would though...  Ima sucker for any hot asian girl... 

Bless smith micro / CP!

If you get her, you will want the WW2 plugin...

Ah, thanks WandW - I was just wondering if Phil was up to speed. I should have known he was. :D

I now have Miki 3 installed and am trying to do a quick render before dashing to the airport. Why did I choose IDL for a quick render? Because I'm daft, that's why...

@AndyStaples ... and your a sucker for high quality renders ;)

The textures and materials shaders work great with IDL :)

@gagnonrich - When you get her take a look at the morphs for the head. I think you might be surprised at the quality of smiles and expressiveness you can get out of her.

Still no finished download. Must be the 24th attempt .

Bog standard pose, no morphs, plus the new bike, which isn't something I'd usually buy but is a nice freebie.

Lit with IDL Studio.

That's kinda what she said.  Sure enough, I encounter a nice girl and piss her off immediately.  :D 

Yes, I see the shoulder crease.  Probably user error on my part.

Very dissapointed myself :(

when i saw the first pictures of her a couple of months back, she looked very good

now she looks like just another V4 morph, her face has been softened so much she has lost all the character the early pictures had.

shame.

Just bought her, installed, spun a few dials, rendered. I like her!!!

B.

@ PhsycoNaut - I ran into a crease, yet smaller then yours when posing her and I used the Morph brush turned to Smooth. it cleared it right up. very easily. I've been using the same tactic for poke thru with clothing too since the morph brush came out. its pretty sweet.

Quote - DAZ Studio effectively copied the Poser joint format to enable it to load Poser figures. Its not beyond the realms of reason for them to copy this new option also. If they do not, then my interpretation would be, it is because they do not want to rather than it is not possible to.

Consider this, if DAZ Studio were to mirror the joint improvements pioneered by Poser 8 then maybe, just maybe, Vicky 5 would incorporate them also rather than being stuck with a rigging system that was created ten years ago.

It's not likely that DAZ will mirror the new P8 joint improvements as the generation 5 figures from DAZ will be using a single skin mesh and weight maps.

Quote - Look to the future or be stuck in the past? Me, I'm moving forward :)

I couldn't agree more. :)

Coldrake

With no idea how the mesh actually bends because the pictures in Content Paradise are so small, repetitive, and demonstrate little, I am extremely hesitant to buy the mesh.

Miki 1 and 2 were also extremely problematic.  They had insanely good facial poses and morphs but were utterly awful in how they bent everywhere else.  They also had next to zero support from product makers and what little support they had dried up very rapidly.

Smith Micro has also done an awful job marketting Miki 3.0 as compared to even independent Poser product makers.  Where is the innundation of private renders from people who have advanced copies?  Where are the previews of upcoming clothes and other products for Miki 3.0? 

Even the smaller Poser product makers do this and Smith Micro's lame Facebook campaign that also included terribly unuseful renders that gave little hint at how the mesh comes together didn't make up for it (I also don't need to open my Facebook account up to a bajillion people by friending a digital model).

So until I see some more renders that show me Miki 3.0 doesn't have the prolems that a lot of the meshes coming out of Smith Micro have had, I'll be holding back.

I fully agree with you Onimusha, though I might give her a try, normal price is a whopping $40. CP's figures still seem to me very primative somewhere between Posette and Vicky 3. That's probably the biggest reason there was hardly any support for the other Miki's.

I just upgraded to P8 today and the new figures are rather dull. At least Miki comes with a 30 day money back guarentee, so I can spend $15 now and if I don't like her I can just send her packing.

I had both Miki 1 and 2  though I never really used them and I no longer have them due to the new CP layout where they now charge you to download the files after a month, what types of mesh issues did they have, my memory fails me.

Attached Link: http://www.runtimedna.com/forum/showthread.php?57039-Been-playing-with-Miki-3

One of the funny things that hit me last weekend - I was checking out a thread on the Daz forum about their new V5 figure ideas, and someone posted an image from a 3D character artist that showed a pose they'd love to see a Poser figure acheive. I took that as a little bit of a challenge.

I wasn't able to recreate the pose 100% but got very close. It's the first image in the thread on RDNA in the link.

Quote - > Quote - If you get her, you will want the WW2 plugin...

 

That's kinda what she said.  Sure enough, I encounter a nice girl and piss her off immediately.  :D 

Yes, I see the shoulder crease.  Probably user error on my part.

 

 

One of things I found with posing the Miki 3 shoulder was to be sure to use a mix of the collar and shoulder to get the bend right and minimize creasing. Once I got the hand in place, I'd lock on IK for that hand, then do a little dial tweaking on the collar and shoulder to soften the shoulder area even more. What's nice about locking on IK is that you can experiment with all the arm parameters to polish the look and position. 

The biggest problem that Miki 1 and 2 had were the joints.  The elbows and knees still seem to bend in a bulbous, unnatural fashion.  This was my biggest problem with Miki 1+2.  You could use the face, but if you put them in a short sleeved shirt or a dress, they looked terrible when they did anything except stand still.

Miki 3.0 seems to have the same problem.  It's pretty evident in the render that Synthmonkey did that I'm linking here.  Miki 3.0's knee is elongated, totally distorted, and looks completely unnatural.  Seems like the same problems Miki 1+2 had...

Quote - The biggest problem that Miki 1 and 2 had were the joints.  The elbows and knees still seem to bend in a bulbous, unnatural fashion.  This was my biggest problem with Miki 1+2.  You could use the face, but if you put them in a short sleeved shirt or a dress, they looked terrible when they did anything except stand still.

 

 

Miki 3.0 seems to have the same problem.  It's pretty evident in the render that Synthmonkey did that I'm linking here.  Miki 3.0's knee is elongated, totally distorted, and looks completely unnatural.  Seems like the same problems Miki 1+2 had...

That sure is an extreme knee bend. I wanted to show how the crease folds. I've a hunch that most rigged charcaters have weaknesses in the knee with that extreme an angle.

A little touch of the morph brush would help to tuck in the calf as well and soften that top bulge. But I think in most images the knees never get that bent.

I browsed through your gallery for reference (cool images btw - you might want to try some IDL for richer shadows) and found most of the sci-fi art you've created used mostly the Daz figures with fairly straight knees and partially bent elbows.

I think the Miki 3 figure with some converted clothing via wardrobe wizard would work well for you.

Quote - In all honesty, Miki 3 looks less oriental than Miki 1 & 2.

The illustrations, at the link, point out that the joints don't seem to be very much improved. The jumping image shows jutting knees and elbows with other images showing overexaggerated creases on the inner elbow. The fingers look unnatural in the patio image. The smile looks unnatural and awful.

More skilled artists should be able to produce better demo images, without retouching, than are shown on SM's official site.

Some of the facial expressions look good, but overall, the promotional images are unimpressive. Whatever advancements have been made with Miki 3 aren't on display.

Ouch. I thought I'd done a decent job. 

I agree the patio image looks a little forced. I was having a rendering issue on that image with my camera interpenetrating a foreground stone column. It hung forever trying to render the inside of the column. It took me a while to figure out what was happening in the scene, and I ran short of time. But looking at the photobooth images, you can see that she is very expressive.

I went to your gallery to check out some sample images for good hand poses to reference - it's hard to pose all those joints...

Thanks for the feedback - I miss art school for the portfolio reviews. They were brutal sometimes, but useful.

Just tried the figure in P7.  I didn't expect it to even load, so I was pleasantly surprised.  Because of the different joint rigging the mesh tears easily after a small movement (you can move the arms down by about 20 degrees before this happens).  Head movement seems to be fine, so no problem with portrait shots.

The biggest problem that I had was with the size of the texture maps - 4k x 4k PNG files are a bit much for my graphics card to handle it seems, so there were some display glitches. 

I resized the default maps to 2k x 2k, re-saved as jpeg and then replaced the maps in the material room.  The figure seemed to work reasonably well after that - enough to do a quick render anyway (shown above)

EDIT: The problem with the texture maps could very likely be that I'm running on a 32-bit OS.

Quote - I created some nude studies when I was doing the clothed promotional renders for Smith. They can't post the nudes on their website but I was able to put a bunch of them up in a thread on RuntimeDNA. Above is the link to that thread.

One of the funny things that hit me last weekend - I was checking out a thread on the Daz forum about their new V5 figure ideas, and someone posted an image from a 3D character artist that showed a pose they'd love to see a Poser figure acheive. I took that as a little bit of a challenge.

I wasn't able to recreate the pose 100% but got very close. It's the first image in the thread on RDNA in the link.

Two other details - none of the images posted in the RDNA thread have any photoshop to Miki 3 or her joints. Photoshop was used only to crop, add credits or fade in background.

She is also rendered in the default state, with none of the full body morphs applied. For my personal tastes, I like Miki 3's voluptuous dial set at .2 to add a little more weight on her arms and torso, and I dial in the body builder morph to about .15 to add a little more definition. 

Yep, but the face seems to suffer.
For a low spec PC or MAC, when you downsize textures, resharpen them afterwards.

This brings back some of the lost detail.

Realy important for a bump map.

Quote - Just tried the figure in P7.  I didn't expect it to even load, so I was pleasantly surprised.  Because of the different joint rigging the mesh tears easily after a small movement (you can move the arms down by about 20 degrees before this happens).  Head movement seems to be fine, so no problem with portrait shots.

  Now would be a good time to practice with the setup room  :D

Hmm, thought..., if one was to re-rig Miki to match/work with p7 would we be able to give the bone pz3 away or what have you?

Quote - Hmm, thought..., if one was to re-rig Miki to match/work with p7 would we be able to give the bone pz3 away or what have you?

Why bother, what you're talking about is called Miki 2.0.

I am not convinced about Miki 3.0's joints.  They really don't seem to work properly.  They're an improvement over Miki 2, but not nearly as good as V4.  Miki 3.0 seems to bend in certain places better than V4, like the hips, but having less natural extremity joints is far more of a liability because they are far less frequently hidden by clothing.  I'll be returning my Miki 3.0...

Quote - > Quote - Hmm, thought..., if one was to re-rig Miki to match/work with p7 would we be able to give the bone pz3 away or what have you?

 

Why bother, what you're talking about is called Miki 2.0.

 

I am not convinced about Miki 3.0's joints.  They really don't seem to work properly.  They're an improvement over Miki 2, but not nearly as good as V4.  Miki 3.0 seems to bend in certain places better than V4, like the hips, but having less natural extremity joints is far more of a liability because they are far less frequently hidden by clothing.  I'll be returning my Miki 3.0...

I take that as a challenge. :-)

Can you point me towards an image in your gallery that shows your most aggressive knee bends, that doesn't require a big prop like a motorcycle, and I'll try and replicate it with Miki 3? I'll just do a simple nude in IDL, no other scene items, just to see if we can get her to pose for you.

I really dont understand what is the excitement about miki3.

I wasn't all that impressed by the facials in the promo images, but the images in the RDNA thread convinced me much more.

It also appears the included textures don't give the figure justice, or am I not seeing them in play and only the untextured model?

hard to beat the price. I just have to convince myself why I need another figure, even at $15.