I set the gamma correction on specular maps to "custom gamma value 1.0". Is this the right thing to do, treat them like bump maps?

<edit that made no sense, just clarification.>

The is correct.  Any map that conveys information, such as displacement, bump, normal and transparencies maps should have gamma values of 1.  If not, the model will 'bloat' at render.

Is this also neccessary for specular maps? Poserpro2010 has a script to change the gamma level of bump, displacement, normal and transparency maps, but not for specular maps.

I can imagine that specularmaps need GC, because you plug them in a lighting node. But I'm not sure.

best regards,

Bopper.

You can't answer "what is the correct gamma" for everything unless you can answer what the units of measurement were and what is the digital representation of the quantity in question.

If the quantity being described is a color, encoded in a gamma-corrected way, based on the observed color you were getting while drawing it on a screen, then it needs to have the gamma you used at the time you created it, in setting it up for use in Poser.

What is the gamma of a 247 HP engine? Meaningless - it has no gamma. We don't gamma correct horsepower. If we were using an image map to record the horsepower of 20,000 engines, we would say the gamma=1 because gamma doesn't apply.

What is the gamma of the number of eggs in my breakfast? Meaningless. If I make a map containing data about how many eggs were consumed in each of the houses in my town today, those numbers would not have a gamma. They are just numbers, to be used as-is. Which means if we wanted to use that data in a shader, we'd set the image gamma = 1.

Now - who can tell me the definition of a specular map? Depending on your answer, I will tell you it has a gamma of 1 or a gamma of 2.2. But I don't know the answer.

If you tell me the specular map is recording the numerical shine value to use in my VSS shader, for each point, then I would say the gamma is 1, i.e. this is not a color I looked at and chose on the basis of visual observation of the color itself. Rather, it would be a color I chose on the basis of the effect it produced after plugging it into the VSS shader. In that case, we would not want it modified.

Suppose I make a map that represents the specular reflectivity of an actual face, not as measured by looking at a photo, but as measured, linearly, but using a scientific device to measure reflectivity. Each point would be some factor between 0% reflective and 100% reflective. Plotting all those points would produce a specular reflectivity map. What is that gamma of such a map? 1.

But what if I took a photo of an actual facial reflection, somehow manipulate it to only contain specular data, in gamma = 2.2 format? Then, by definition, that gamma is 2.2.

There is no right answer. Every map is data. To understand what gamma to use on that map, you must answer the question: What does this data represent and how is it encoded?

Bump and displacement maps are height maps, and by definition represent height, without any gamma. So they must be set to 1 because they were designed to be used as is. They are data, not colors. They happen be to stored in a file that could also be used to store colors, but that is an unimportant fact.

Normal maps are not color either, even though they look colorful when you display them as if they were colors. They are the cosine components of angular deltas. They are meant to be used as is. They do not have a gamma, so to correctly use them, you set gamma = 1. When you display them as normals with the wrong gamma, it is obvious.

Pretty much the only maps we use correctly where gamma not = 1 is the right answer are diffuse color maps, and even then we're not sure.  The convention is that color maps in HDR or EXR format are gamma = 1. The convention is also that all JPG are at gamma = 2.2, but I can show you maps where that is not true. You have to know how it was made, and why, and how you're supposed to be using it ACCORDING TO THE PERSON WHO MADE IT, not some standard implied by a particular 3D app.

I'm getting a loss in the color (saturation?) of the base texture map.

Quote - I'm getting a loss in the color (saturation?) of the base texture map.

I must say, that I like the less saturated much better.
The skintone looks more natural, the distribution/scattering of the hilights looks more natural too.
The hilights on the first render have to much intensity, almost overblown.
Only problem is the light in the nostrils.

I agree with msg.  bagginsbill said in an earlier post that the shader doesn't behave correctly with when it comes to gamma on/off.  

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=2177554&section_id=&genre_id=&np

No tweaks or anything done as yet on it.

Having trouble loading the image for some reason

@latexluv,

I'm seeing two speculars on eyes and lips. Is it your lights? Agree that cornea specular is the weak link and should be scaled down a bit. Or driven by a reflection. It's a great shader though. Nice milky transparent quality.

As one of the ones who PMed Bagginsbill about this, I'm very much so looking forward to this. :)

Any progress on the eye? I'm very eager for its release; I have a Mother's Day image I'm hoping to use it in... :)

Quote - Here is a VSS Skin Template shader - work in progress. Load it into Template Skin on a VSS control prop.

The important thing to examine here is how the specular behaves - that's the dominant new thing. I'd like to see results, good or bad, and perhaps comparisons with PR3 using various textures. I don't have a lot of textures, nor a lot of time to test. So if you guys think this shader is wonky, please let me know. It's got quite a few new ideas in it.

Bagginsbill, thanks so much for the PR4 skin shader.  The specular effect on the skin is amazing.  You're a genius.

B-b-b-b-bookmark!

Great stuff, I'm so eager!

The big problem I was having with the VSS3 was the makeup and eyebrows getting washed out.  I don't seem to be having this problem with VSS4.  Here's what I have so far:

The texture is Lauren for V4.2 by MocPac, using VSSIndor light Indoor01.

VSSindor Light Indoor?  Is this an original light set from BB?  IIRC, those light set were incorrectly created, casting a higher intensity than they were suppose to.  Try decreasing intensity values or create your own.  The difference between VSS3 and VSS4 is that VSS4 has auto gamma correction built into the shaders.  VSS3 does not.  That might explain the washout effect in PP2010 if Gc is active in your render settings. 

Ok.  I'll try some other light settings and try again.

hi there....is there a way for someone who is not good in technicall terms very much for a small step by step guide on how to use VSS shaders?:crying:

please?

Have you read BB's comprehensive manual yet?  It is a bit outdated but it can get you started.  Also, there are many post available in the forum covering specific aspects of VSS.  What exactly do you want to know, and have you attempted to use VSS at all?

yes im doing this right now...attempting...

but i can't search the entire forum...the main article has 98(?) or so pages? !!

just need some first steps...and i have so many questions...for example ..i cant find VSS4 in Bagginsbills pages...

sorry for the rush comment...im in a small pressure here :)

VSSPR4 as an actual prop does not exist.  The link below points to page 2 of this post which contains the replacement shader set for the Skin Template of VSSPR3.  Hence, this becomes VSSPR4 WIP when you save back the prop into the library.

thank you so much...i will take a look...

I will be stepping out for a doctor's appointment shortly, and won't be back for awhile.  Let me know exactly what information you would like to cover, perhaps I can put together some illustrations to cover the basics.  However, this will require some time to assemble.

Quote - Here is a VSS Skin Template shader - work in progress. Load it into Template Skin on a VSS control prop.

The important thing to examine here is how the specular behaves - that's the dominant new thing. I'd like to see results, good or bad, and perhaps comparisons with PR3 using various textures. I don't have a lot of textures, nor a lot of time to test. So if you guys think this shader is wonky, please let me know. It's got quite a few new ideas in it.

Hiya Folks My first ever post over here so be gentle with me. I have just started to use Poser 8 so I am not that clued up on the terminology and what Poser can do yet. I have managed to apply VSSPR3 no problem at all, reappling the displacement maps and adjusting things learned via the main VSS thread and manual. Thanks for the PDF btw it was a great help. I am loving the results so far and very impressed BB.

OK matter at hand I have no idea how to use the VSS4.txt file in the quote above. What and how do I use this to update VSSPR3. Can some kind soul spell it out for this Poser newcomer. I have a lot of Daz Studio experence and have been playing with Poser but just not at this level. :D

Remove the .txt extension so that it is a Poser material. Place this file in a Poser runtime under the material category - anywhere you want. Something under XYZ/Runtime/Libraries/Materials/...

What it contains is a new template skin shader for loading into the control prop. You load the material into the prop as if you were loading any material into any prop or figure. Which, I assume, is something you've never done.

So here is how:

Select the VSS control prop as the current actor.

Click the Material tab.

Click the Advanced Tab.

Use the second material room pulldown, at the top, to select the Template Skin material.

Navigate to your library to find the PR4 mt5 file you saved and double click it. This will load it into the control prop.

You can now Synchronize as usual.

You may want to save the resulting PR4 modified prop.

Go back to Pose room.

Select the current actor to be the VSS control prop.

In the library choose the Prop category.

Select a folder (or make one first for your own VSS things.)

Click the + button at the bottom of the library to save the current actor as a prop. Enter a good name.

Thanks BB. Since I made that post I went away to do some homework.

After a few hours it dawned on me what I had to do. SO I did just what you said, removed the .txt and saved. Placed it in the VSS/Libaraies/Materails folder. Went in the Mat Room selected the Vss Prop, scrolled down to find the Template Skin and applied the new MT5. I am so please with myself know. :D And very impressed with the results. I prefer 4 over 3.

I have made a new Vss Prop under under your instructions thank you for that also.

I take it that all displacement maps don't get connected when appling VSS? It is not a problem in reconnecting them but it is sure nice to know if it is the case. For peace of mind that is. :D

Also I noticed a Lip Mask as a floating node, is this normal and should I be using it. I don't see an issue with rending though I  haven't gone in that close to the face yet. :D

Had a look at your wiring, how you managed to figure all that out is beyond me. Yes I realise it is 3 years work but still, mind blowing.

I will report back when I have some more testing and adjusting. So far it is looking like a very nice addition to the Poser tool set.

No I have never applied a mat while in the Mat room, always in the Preview Mode. I didn't know we could until I did some lateral thinking. Well I am new to Poser, real new. :D

Again thanks for replying so quickly. Off to play some more. I am so liking this. I would buy Pro in a heart beat.

I had to make a number of adjustsments to VSS to suit the skin which wasn't a surprise as I soon learnt it is hard to make one that fits all in this game. But using the template to change all the skin surfaces is so easy. I just need to remember to add displacement after I have sycronised for the last time. :D

BB will you be finishing VSS toward the Pro version you mentioned or since 9/2012 has SSS will you be scaping it?

Displacement nodes can be easily added directly to the VSS templates before synchronization, you just need to auto rename everything before you sync.  I don't belive BB will be scrapping VSS because of SSS in P9/PP2012.  A new simplified  template has been developed and can be found @ RuntimeDNA.  It is fondly referred to as post 240.

Thanks for that info. If you have the link to that thread I would be much appreciated. I have serched RDNA and google but for the life of me can't find the thread you are refering to.

Here ya go, last post on this page: http://www.runtimedna.com/forum/showthread.php?63200-SSS-on-Human-Figures/page12

Btw, that's a great render!  The only thing I find that distracts me is the seam on his wrist and maybe the transition in the neck.   It seems the "old" skin is not so well blended at these points.  But I haven't seen any skin that was old looking all over.  Texturers tend to just pay attention to the face and hands unfortunately so maybe a procedural shader is the way to go in this case. 

Nice comments and thanks for that. Yeah I see what you mean about the wrist. I will redo that thanks.

As for the neck, I hear you on that score I wish more content makers would provide a full body of age.. I may go and try to make some displacement maps to give him some wear. :D I am new to Poser so procedual could be out of my reach at the moment.

Again thanks for making me think a little more about certain aspects.

Well I went away and moved the wrist, forearm and sholder to a better position and added some wrinkles to the dispalcement map. I think I have managed to get a nice transition going down the neck from under his chin. See how the render looks tomorrow.

Again thanks for the constructive comments, it was a great help.

Looking forward to seeing the revised version :)  In the meantime you may find this interesting reading as BagginsBill discusses elderly skin via procedural shading:

http://www.runtimedna.com/forum/showthread.php?64446-Elderly-Skin

Thanks Kalypso for the link. I thought this comment to be very interesting though.

*"What would be wonderful is if somebody who is actually talented at drawing, and has a tablet, would create a proper bump/displacement map. Draw it, not derived from the color map".  *   

I will make sure I read and digest that thread. It could be a great addition to Bump and displacement maps.

That looks great. I saw in your previous post something about adding displacement after synchronizing.

If you want a skin shader to have a feature that gets used on your figure, then put it in the skin shader Template Skin. So - you want displacement, add an Image_Map node connected to displacement in Template Skin. Set it how you want it. But do not put an image in. Use Auto Rename Images to get it to be named Displacement Map. Then when you synchronize, whatever displacement map is on the figure will be used.

In case there is no displacement map, you want the displacement to be shut off. VSS will use the Image_Map Background value (or nodes plugged in there) to define what to use for that image when it is not populated in the target.

And I did not completely scrap the idea of a UI for VSS - just have no time to do it.

Thanks for the info bagginsbill I have copy and pasted all that for safe keeping.

Time is always an issue with these things I hear you loud and clear. I like VSS as it is. :D