Vote with our modeling!  ;)

Nice work!!!!

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - I think the thing you and others who are disappointed in Dawn are missing is not that she does anything that any other post P9 figure already does, but she is a quality figure from people who are known for their quality figures, and she has garnered the support that , until now, only V4 has has had. AND, unlike the other post P9 figures, she has her foot in both the doors of Studio AND Poser. In other words, Dawn represents a reunification of the Poserverse. 

Why do we need to "reuinite" those communities? DS users have formed their own community, why does that bother anyone? Other than maybe vendors who now have twice the workload in order to attract both types of clients. That will always be the case, because they are two separate pieces of software with two separate sets of coding. The days of figures working seemlessly between the two are long gone, and until DAZ or SM buy out or merge with the other, it will remain that way and the coding for each program will continue to diverge from the fork in the road they took 2+ years ago. (Why continue to remain friends with an ex? It's like putting a gallon of spoiled milk in the fridge, hoping it will be fresh again tomorrow. Move on, its over). 

Trying to maintain this level of cross-platform compatibility does nothing but limit the functionality of the figures in each. 

I thought Dawn was going to utilize the newer features of Poser, because her creators said (or at least lead many to believe) she would utilize the new features of Poser. So I'm wrong to be irritated that her hype was misleading? 

She's weightmapped and has poseable toes. Ok. Well there's a lot more to Poser than just weightmapping. 

Alyson is weightmapped and has poseable toes.

Roxie is weightmapped and has poseable toes. 

Antonia is weightmapped and has poseable toes.

Michelle is weightmapped and has poseable toes, and is backwards compatible to both P6 and DS3+. Oh, but she doesn't have a big name behind her, so she's useless. 

Where are the multiple levels of SubD that many have been requesting and why weren't they developed along the way so that they share grouping, rigging, mapping, etc? A professional team would have done this automatically, not as an afterthought, after-market add-on - for two reasons: One to make the figure package more appealing to those who've been requesting it, (thus making it that much better than whats currently available) and Two (and more importantly from a production/business standpoint) - to streamline the production of the figure making it more efficient and saving man hours. As it is, to go back and try recreating lower and higher levels of res now (if they ever actually do this, which they probably wont, at least not for this release) is an unnesessary waste of extra work. Had it been done from the beginning, while the figure was being modeled, (yes you can map a model while you're modeling it, in most any relavent modeling packages - maya, max, blender, etc), it would have made things much less complicated for those involved, and any professional modeler should know this. yes it's a bit more work while the figure is IN DEVELOPMENT, but it's 10 times the work to go back and do it it later. 

I already pointed out the lack of animated joint centers and why they're necessary for more believable bends and morphing. 

Her breasts still don't move when her shoulders do, and her arms still look like bent hoses at the shoulders - which are as wide as a linebackers I might add. 

The only thing I see so far that's an improvement over other figures is the way her hands are rigged make a lot more sense. 

Anyway, whatever. 

~Shane

I make my own morphs-and plenty will be coming commercially,  so initial appearances are not that important. The body is very natural looking-and I think attractive.

I just got Dawn last night-I thought the face looked a little strong-so here is a morph I made making the face look more "feminine"-and young- that goes well with the included "young" morph for the body.I'm sure any number of vendors will be making similar morphs-particularly, now that she is out.

The Green Goblin Beach babe is also Dawn. I got tired of making human morphs so I had  a little fun and made a Goblin companion for the beach trip. She is hoping to be picked for the beach volleyball team. :-)

Quote - > Quote - She seems to have plenty of fans, so I won't be missed!

Not seeing them in THIS thread! Pretty lonely here. But what else is new.

I think most of us are just tried of the same old arguments that come out with every new figure. I think I've heard the exact same arguments for every figure that has come out since I've started here. It seems to be the same people saying the same thing each time. People who disagree with them try to argue, help them see the value of these new figures, but it doesn't help. Things get heated and threads get locked. Now most of us just stay out of it and let them have their say, while the rest of us enjoy a variety of figures.

I didn't read all this thread but just in skimming I wanted to say that There will be a lot of improvements/enhancements for Dawn in regards to using Poser's new features, fine tuning, etc. Hivewire and Smith Micro are in communications so I think we can expect lots of great things coming for her.

I hope we can all keep in my mind that this is just the beginning and the Hivewire folks will be working hard to make her better and better.  "Good Enough" being all they are striving for, of course, is not how the Hivewire team (or the Poser team and all the 3dcommunities that have united to support Dawn for that matter) feel about Dawn. Improvements and new features will continue being worked on and I think everyone will be pleased if they just hang onto that thought and have patience.

We at Renderosity, along with other 3d communities, have had several meetings with the Hivewire team and we continue to be in close contact so I am very confident to say that "good enough" is not their mindset at all. And I can say in talking with them I am very excited about the future with Dawn and Poser..................

 Also just a reminder that while everyone is entitled to their opinion and views, we need to maintain a productive and positive discussion regardless. We really hate to see threads go down a bad road to the point they have to be locked so please let's not let that happen in our Dawn discussions.  

Thank you

Stacey 

Marketplace Manager

I like her.  The bending is very nice, much better than a "corrected" V4.  The elbows look good when bent.

Quote - > Quote - She seems to have plenty of fans, so I won't be missed!

Not seeing them in THIS thread! Pretty lonely here. But what else is new.

That is the sad thing to me... it doesn't seem to matter what new figure comes out..  the sme or slightly modified cast of characters shows up to rip 'em a new one.  There are lots of valid concerns (the one that strikes home for me is the dig about her boardlike side profile.. kinda have to agree on that one) but really... A figure comes out with lots of polys and muscle cuts and you get complaints about being recklessly high poly... a figure comes out more modest in poly count but less mesh detail and the same people dig it for not having the muscle cuts.  Throw in advanced rigging into a figure and its too complex, but dont throw it in and your not 'taking advantage of the new features ...  honestly... i dont see anyone trying to convince people who arent interested to pick her up...  so why do the same people have to take the time to say again and agian that they arent into her?  to me it just seems like being mean. 

Its like if you turn a girl down honestly by saying your not attracted to her is fair enough.. but if you follow her around screaming fatty to all who will hear your just being dick

I guess it serves them right for trying to make a living at poser... but then again its the same with the free figures and community projects.. so i guess it serves them right (and I refer now to all the ones that came before) for even trying to offer soemthing... its just too bad really... but you gotta expect this unless you happen to be relaesing another half baked SM figure with a ton of potential but rushed and inadequate execution...

this is the toxic atmosphere more than anything that I think is drying up content creation

again... too bad

Quote - > Quote -  

She's weightmapped and has poseable toes. Ok. Well there's a lot more to Poser than just weightmapping. 

Alyson is weightmapped and has poseable toes.

Roxie is weightmapped and has poseable toes. 

Antonia is weightmapped and has poseable toes.

Michelle is weightmapped and has poseable toes, and is backwards compatible to both P6 and DS3+. Oh, but she doesn't have a big name behind her, so she's useless. 

vs Alyson :  way better rigging with dawn, plus dawn is useable as is (to me)  allyson is usable only if morphed and posed in very specific ways

vs Roxie : again better rigging, easier to transfer rig into clothing and subjectively dawn has a more grown up look which I prefer.  Nobody is saying not to use any other figures

vs Antonia: Bending is pretty close, I think antonia WM may have the edge.  Much better morphability with dawn (said with the utmost love for antonia) Dawn is probably more attractive out of the box (as that seems to be the biggest dig poor tony takes) also antonia does not have posable toes (I really dont actually get why anyone cares about that, but maybe I dont do enough foot closeups..)

vs Michelle: Its hard for me to say, I never really used michelle as she came out when I hadn't any time for poser and I never picked her up.  Several months down the road there wasnt enough content that screamed 'must buy' so I didn't  ... so :: michelle was more stylized maybe

I also purchased a few Dawn products.  

Since the figure is free you can give it a try-out and see for yourself if you like it or not.

When I get a decent render made I will post it.  

Quote -  

I already pointed out the lack of animated joint centers and why they're necessary for more believable bends and morphing. 

Her breasts still don't move when her shoulders do, and her arms still look like bent hoses at the shoulders - which are as wide as a linebackers I might add. 

 

 

~Shane

Its possible that animated joint centers would aid in better bending... but at what cost...  She bends better than any commercial figure on the market as is and content creation is even easier than it was for antonia.  What effect would animated joint centers have on workflow for creators building for both versions.. or even just for poser... Sorry unless someone wants to take dawn and animate her joint centers of even one joint and demonstrate significantly better bending I call BS on this.. just nitpicking for the sake of being negative.  Needless complexity is a death knell for content support and as we have ALL seen that is really what is going to matter as far as dawns success.

As a personal opinion her shoulders look strong and I quite like them, though they are wide.  breast movement.. fair point(though I kinda thought they did at one point... my poser rig is down still so I'm going from memory).  Seems like hivewire is not huge on any sort of ladybits so we should just be happy she even has nipples!  ((J/K they are not -that- square.. just solidly PG !))

Quote - Sneakers for Dawn.

Vote with our modeling!  ;)

cool...  can I ask you what you do on the edge of your leather... mine looks like crap and I cant get a look I'm satisfied with

Figure is free but $12.95 for the starter morphs and when they say starter, they mean starter, not enough to do anything to make her look decent.  The rest of what's in the bundle, had my wife ever dressed like that I would have fled the country before the day was out, in shame.

Doric.

um..

really?!

its poser content that actually covers her.  full pants, boots that dont have a ludicrous heel and modest tank top that doesnt even come with peekaboo morphs..

either edited out borderline personal attack, but the following is accurate and I stand by it or , more likely, you are full tilt trolling...

its one thing to say its not your style.. its quite another to try to (mis)lead people to the impression that HW3D is pushing the same sort of stuff that v4 is famous for...

Sure its not business attire or turtlenecks or edited out borderline personal attack.. sorry but its pretty damn modest by poser standards, or even by the standard of dress I observe in real life from the early 30's crowd.  I'm not sure the set all together is my style either, but the pieces independatnly could be useful to me.

Aside from the obvious, that your just trolling, do tell what kind of aging librarian clothing it is that you think they would have been better to include

Quote - Figure is free but $12.95 for the starter morphs and when they say starter, they mean starter, not enough to do anything to make her look decent.  The rest of what's in the bundle, had my wife ever dressed like that I would have fled the country before the day was out, in shame.

Doric.

Edited to censor some questionable phrases

This is drifting toward personal attacks again. Can we stay focused on Dawn before I have to delete another page of messages?

I don't really get the negativity-thanks BasicWiz- I was just about to abandon the thread

Quote - This is drifting toward personal attacks again. Can we stay focused on Dawn before I have to delete another page of messages?

Ok yeah.. sorry, some truth to that.  Post edited.  But I'm still calling people on what they post.  and I'm still chiming in against the sadly predictable bashing that is going on.

Yeah, I actually expected quite a few Dawn posts here as I really thought from the huge freebie thread that a lot of folks are very excited.  Maybe people are just having fun playing with the figure.  Maybe they aren't posting because they'd get a pitchfork in the eye for saying they like something :(

Just seems like some of the things that folks are criticising are those that we already knew.  Proportions, lack of gens and all that.

Hmm... What about the tools we have in Poser?  Are folks afraid to use the morph brush to put a new nose in there or add your own little touches?  Soften the jaw, give the boobs a different shape, etc.  Heck you could even use Magnets and save those out for later to apply them to clothing.

I personally am having fun with the figure :)

Quote - > Quote - Dawn is the V5 that Poser users had hoped for and never saw. It's that simple. If Vicki is no big deal to you, then Dawn won't be either.

To me, This is a big deal. It's a figure that works inside of Poser that is finally going to get some real support.

If that's not what floats your boat, then there's no big deal.

 

I've got to say that I agree completely with what you've said here.

Like many other Poser users, I felt very let down by Daz when V5 was released.  DSON was a step in the right direction, but not really enough.  I'm one of those people who is fortunate in that DSON works reasonably well on my machine.  Emelie (from "The Odds") and Stalker Girl are two of my very favourite Poser morphs.  I've spent quite a lot of time (and money) working with Genesis - V5, S5, M5, F5, A5, H5 and a few other morphs, so I do feel that I've given it a good go and I do still use the content that I have.  What stopped me from buying more Genesis content was the lack of Poser support for many products.  Yes, I could install DS and convert them, but I'd rather spend the time making pictures than fiddling with technicalities.  I definitely wasn't prepared to give Genesis 2 a go, but if people like it then good luck to them - maybe its more suited to people new to the hobby.

 

My impressions of Dawn so far are mostly positive.  I'm impressed with the way the shoulder joints and armpits work.  I like the bending of the entire figure if it comes to that.

Most of all though, I like the fact that she works in both Poser and Daz Studio.

To those people that are doubting right now - why not download the figure whilst it's free, then hold off a while and see what morphs and clothing are released in the next month or so?  Personally, I didn't like V4 when she was first released, but as more products came out I changed my mind.

I really do hope that Dawn is a success.  Along with all of the other available figures, this is a great time for DS and Poser users because there has never been this much choice.

 

Final note:  Someone posted in the thread that there are no nipple morphs on Dawn.  They are there, you just have to inject the DawnStarter morphs.

 

Yes, Yes, over and over. For me this is the figure I had hoped to see when V5 came out. That never happened at the time and I moved on to other figures and kept working with my much beloved V4. I had some hopes for V6,  but quickly realized that the developers did not go in the direction I had hoped for Poser users. When I heard about Dawn it was like a fresh breeze blowing through the forums and over the community. She is by far the best character out of the box I have ever seen. I am hoping for advanced morphs, but have been able to make some nice renders without it. Like it was mentioned earlier, there is no harm in getting her. She is free, but I had a lot of fun shopping for her myself  on all the different sites. I love Renderosity for their support of this character. There were so many wonderful artists all over the communtiy who participated. What a great comming together this has been for artists. Beautiful work and an even more beautiful result in the way this project has brought people together. Bravo to Hivewire for making this happen.

What would I like?  Well, from daz, I have the M4 Cowboy, not exactly what I want, but close enough I can live with it.  Shoes, like the daz Sensible Shoes, again not exact, but close enough.  Take the cowboy shirt and get rid of the western style trim, okay, that would be fine.  Dresses, I can go into town and see dresses that go from way too short to dragging the ground.  I see people wearing decent shoes, not joggers or sneakers, but those aren't available anywhere that I know of other than what I mentioned. 

I'm pretty conservative in my dress, always have been, I have what I like, what I've aways liked, and I'd like to dress my figures in something close to that.  With a touch of reality, the so called cargo style, wear that in a factory, where I worked for my working years, and you're begging, down on your knees, "Please, machine, grab these and throw me to the ceiling."  It will more than likely oblige you.  I guess what I want is good everyday clothing like real people wear.  Add on without having to search through a hundred or more to find the one I want.  And I know it ain't gonna happen.

Doric.

So to be fair... Cargos are extremely mainstream.. worn as casual clothing by people of all ages and styles.  Not that she comes with cargos either.. though the skinny jeans have the optional cargo pocket.  

My point is that to say they arent giving her everyday clothes isnt entirely accurate.  Jeans and a tanktop is pretty everyday.  Now when i saw 'skinny jeans' I just about choked on it too.. as any time I've seen anyone wearing real skinny jeans they look like they are wearing a diaper of some sort underthem... but these arent really skinny jeans so much as tight jeans.  The combat boots.. not exactly everyday.. but they could pass for work boots or hikers just fine.. in fact I dont think they look -that- much like actual combat boots either.. more like combat style boots..

I myself am probably not going to buy all the starter clothing.  I'm working on a tank top and boots to go with the set I am working on anyway(along with cargo shorts sorry.. never worked around machinery of any sort), but I might pick up the jeans.  The hair I'm going to play with fitting my collection of existing hair to her first and see if I need it or not.  Most likely buy the poses and morphs though.

She isn't going to be everything to everyone, but it would be nice if people could express her perceived shortcomings without coming accross as trying to convince the rest of us not to give her a chance.  She's not perfect, but its only fair to acknowledge what is right with her as well.  

I'm just going to let Dawn speak for herself.  MST's Exotique for Dawn.

Lovely render Traci!

Quote - All this arguing and not a single render!  For shame!

I'm just going to let Dawn speak for herself.  MST's Exotique for Dawn.

The word Dawn implies beginning. I think this is just the beginning of new figures for poser.

so anyway, I was just wondering what everyone thinks about her shoulders. I'm sure someone can make a morph to change this shape, but do you find the shape of her shoulders a bit like the old weight mapped elbow problem of other  figures? ie too round or something?

Eric

Quote - Yeah, I actually expected quite a few Dawn posts here as I really thought from the huge freebie thread that a lot of folks are very excited.  Maybe people are just having fun playing with the figure.  Maybe they aren't posting because they'd get a pitchfork in the eye for saying they like something :(

Just seems like some of the things that folks are criticising are those that we already knew.  Proportions, lack of gens and all that.

Hmm... What about the tools we have in Poser?  Are folks afraid to use the morph brush to put a new nose in there or add your own little touches?  Soften the jaw, give the boobs a different shape, etc.  Heck you could even use Magnets and save those out for later to apply them to clothing.

I personally am having fun with the figure :)

Quote - so anyway, I was just wondering what everyone thinks about her shoulders. I'm sure someone can make a morph to change this shape, but do you find the shape of her shoulders a bit like the old weight mapped elbow problem of other  figures? ie too round or something?

When I look at her shoulders I think 3rd Generation Daz figure.  Though to be fair,  I think the same thing when I look at her topology. 

Until the moment the figure actually released, I quite frankly thought it was a practical joke meant to prove that the anti-daz crowd would fawn over anything, even if it was a blatant step backwards, just because it wasn't made by daz.

Perhaps some of those that are posting comments should have been involved in the thread about her development.

Easy to speak up after the hard work has been done.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - > Quote - so anyway, I was just wondering what everyone thinks about her shoulders. I'm sure someone can make a morph to change this shape, but do you find the shape of her shoulders a bit like the old weight mapped elbow problem of other  figures? ie too round or something?

When I look at her shoulders I think 3rd Generation Daz figure.  Though to be fair,  I think the same thing when I look at her topology. 

Until the moment the figure actually released, I quite frankly thought it was a practical joke meant to prove that the anti-daz crowd would fawn over anything, even if it was a blatant step backwards, just because it wasn't made by daz.

Yeah. She has a look of V3 to me too. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, but it seems a bit strange and like you say, almost like a step backwards from V4.

I think that many vendors are tired of cranking another V4 item. I think many customers are tired of seeing "what's new for V4". Let's try something different, and see if it helps both vendors and buyers.

V4 won't go a way. Many people, for a variety of reasons, don't have the latest versions of Poser, and perhaps never will.

If looks were the only factor in a figure's succes, V4 would have died an early death. We shall see what the future brings for Dawn.

A lot of the discussions about new figures seem to be cut and paste. "New figure, kill!!!!" I suspect there is some trolling, but don't know for a fact.

Have Dawn, like her so far. Unfortunately, this is the year of bad timing. Won't be able to buy anything until next payday. Some hard decisions coming up.

Dawn is a new figure. Is she perfect? Of course not. No affordable figure is going to be. She seems eminently usable. Perhaps we have the figure to end the V4 curse. At least for users of the new version of Poser.

Thank you to the Hivewire team, and best of luck.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Ok so like everyone else I also downloaded Dawn when the site worked again. I checked her out relatively thoroughly. I feel a little better talking about Dawn now that I've actually seen her. I saw her in development and was skeptical, obviously. Hypes always make me skeptical.

Some of you might know me from other sites, and that my work is on the erotic side. Please don't be shy about it, or judge me about it. Sex is a pretty normal thing, not so? We all needed sex to be born at the end of the day. Haha. But anyway I felt I needed to voice my opinion because of what some people seem to expect from me (since I made lali's Bits for V4).

Ok so I loaded Dawn up. As far as standard 3D figures go, in my experience, eh... I don't know. Despite having been critical about it, I was expecting her to be marginally to moderately better than V4, rig and mesh wize, but I cannot really say that now. Granted, much is good, but there are some vital points that throw me off completely. In my most humblest opinion, based on my brief experience as a morph / figure / 3D developer:

Pros:

• Shoulder, neck, torso, knee, foot, hand, toe control
• scaling is very good
• front profile face is ok
• elbow not too bad, slightly odd from the bottom.
• lightweight
• free

Cons (in order of seriousness):

• thigh pivot is completely crap
• zero definition of crotch polys (worse than V4)
• shoulder and upper arm size is enormous, she's like a quarterback, a forklift
• she's not as generic as V4

Cons (that can be morphed away I suppose):

• side profile face
• typical unrealistic bubblebutt
• I don't like the expressions at all
• buttock groove maintained when bending the thigh

Ok shoulders, a matter of taste? Maybe. What I like about V4 is that she's skinny and generic. In my experience with Lali's Bits, this is useful for adding fat to it, it works better with the rig than to remove volume from it. With Dawn the first thing I'd do is remove those aircraft-carrier type shoulders and arms, but that will not look pretty with morphing in my experience. Spaces will emerge where you'd expect fat rolls. Dawn is already very defined, too defined to be flexible. This will cause issues, unless the scaling can solve then, but I'd have to research that properly.

Now the biggest problem is the thigh pivot location IMO. As I bent the thigh for the first time I seriously said 'wow, what the hell...?' I immediately noticed that something was way off. The leg seemed to get shorter as it bent upwards. I used the joint editor to check the pivot location and yes, it is almost down to the level of the pubic bone. Why? I think they did that to minimize the shearing in that area, which is good for the perves amongst us, but what a lousy way to solve it. Animating will look very weird. Maybe some of you won't notice it, but I work with this every week almost, and it doesn't feel right. In any case, the idea of ignoring anatomical correctness doesn't make me feel comfortable.

And off course the crotch. Not even a hint of genitals. No hope for detailed sex with dawn, even if I lodge a prop in there, you'd still have to subdivide her once or twice to get some decent things going.

Ok I know there are several artists out there that don't care for genitalia, that's fine, but there are also a whole bunch that do want them. Genitals are a very intricate thing, wasn't it Larry Flint that said that a vagina has just as much personality as a face? Ok that might be a little over the top, but sheesh, we all have to admit at one point that its a pretty complex thing to model, and there are many different types and shapes of vulvas out there. 

When I make a comic with Lali, part of the focus is the sex, and how much she enjoys it. Her face shows it all, and expressions are so paramount in conveying this. But at the same time her body twists and gets squeezed, in all her female plumpness and biology, and between her legs thing swell up and get excited. Poetry has been written about what happens there! Kingdoms have gone to war over sex. Religious rites have been designed around the act. Books have been written about it. Women have spoken up about it and started entire movements!! 

Why the bloody hell do we still fiddle around with clunky props? Why must the passionate artists amongst us have to lag behind the shyness that seems to have prevailed despite the revolutions our society has achieved? Sure, we don't all need a vagina in our art, but simply erasing the one thing that we're all born out of is, in a way, extremely disrespectful! There's not even a HINT of genital on Dawn.

But then there's her smile! It is downright ridiculous! There isn't even a crease that goes up to her nostril. I don't know of people that don't have that in a full smile. 

Maybe I might be moping here but I find it inexcusable that experienced developers fail to make a proper smile for something that has been so thoroughly marketed. Why do these guys always fail at these simple things? 

In conclusion: ok, Dawn is not a failure, but that's about it IMO. She's just another 3D figure that needs a ton of fixes and adjustments. Nothing wrong with that, except for the fact that we already have one: V4. Fixed, sorted, supported. So why repeat history with a figure that's not really different? Do we really have to go through all that crap for one extra bone in the spine?

So I think it will speak for itself that I will not bother with Dawn again. Because IMO Dawn is not better than V4, especially not with all the fixes available for V4... and definitely not better than my customized V4, the Lali System. There is no point in migrating to Dawn, IMO, unless I'd be emotionally bored of V4 or something. Even Genesis would be a more sensible move, if it weren't for the DAZ-limiting technology behind it. Sure, I can wait and build her up towards something better, but I'm happy with the Lali System and it can do just about anything I want from it. My own 3D figure 'Project E' will hopefully be even more so. There's no point for me to redo everything from scratch for a new figure if my V4 works just fine for now. I was expecting much more from Dawn to be honest.

For the record, I don't wanna come across as just bashing Dawn or DAZ because of unwillingness to change. If I am to change, then I'll do it properly. Its just that I've been asked to do bits for Dawn (and Genesis) several times and feel the need to explain why I'm not going to do it, I almost feel bad because of it, especially to the people that have invested money and time in me with Lali's Bits. I get very tired at the thought of lagging behind DAZ's (and now Hivewire's) sexless creations every time they come out with one, no matter how well they've been designed. So I'd rather make my own figure and kill a few birds with one stone for myself (and maybe the 3DX community if I do it right). 

But anyway I've got an extra background figure for free. I'm kind of relieved with my findings, because it was bugging me a bit more that I wanted to admit. So anyway, thanks Hivewire, but now I'm definitely off to continue Project E with a bit more confidence now... (now just watch me screw something up hahaha)

erogenesis, you done such a great job on Lali Bits (which I Love) maybe

you could make morphs for Dawn as well. Give that girl all those working

parts we love so well. Looking forward to your work.

Quote -
Why the bloody hell do we still fiddle around with clunky props? Why must the passionate artists amongst us have to lag behind the shyness that seems to have prevailed despite the revolutions our society has achieved? Sure, we don't all need a vagina in our art, but simply erasing the one thing that we're all born out of is, in a way, extremely disrespectful! There's not even a HINT of genital on Dawn.
There
But then there's her smile! It is downright ridiculous! 

Why do these guys always fail at these simple things? 

 

In conclusion: ok, Dawn is not a failure, but that's about it IMO. She's just another 3D figure that needs a ton of fixes and adjustments. Nothing wrong with that, except for the fact that we already have one: V4. Fixed, sorted, supported. So why repeat history with a figure that's not really different? Do we really have to go through all that crap for one extra bone in the spine?

So I think it will speak for itself that I will not bother with Dawn again.

Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes

Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes

Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes

Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes

Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes

I'm beating my head against the wall in frustration.  What a giant wasted opportunity.

Quote - erogenesis, you done such a great job on Lali Bits (which I Love) maybe

you could make morphs for Dawn as well. Give that girl all those working

parts we love so well. Looking forward to your work.

You should re-read what erogenesis wrote.

HW3D mentioned right at the beginning of development that Dawn would not have any genitals provided by them or morphs available via their own site.

They did say that this wouldn't stop othes from making them, just tat they wouldn't be available via their site.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

I read most of what e wrote, but I bet someone at the other site

is already working on the working parts for Dawn, Maybe I'll do them

myself. 

Why is everyone so scared of saying Renderotica????

You can mention the name you know.

No one is stopping any gential options being made, just that the HW3D store won't carry them.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - A lot of the discussions about new figures seem to be cut and paste. "New figure, kill!!!!"

And, right there, you've hit the nail on the head.  Competition. 

Some folks don't do it well, especially when they already create whole new marketing programs every 6 weeks, and now they have to create a new one because there's competition in the market.

Quote - I'm beating my head against the wall in frustration.  What a giant wasted opportunity.

Opportunity? They keep on coming with new figures without genitals, V5, V6, Dawn, Dawn 2, Dawn 3...? are they all opportunities?  Its endless! If I have to keep up with all of that, I'll have no time for comics. And opportunity for what? Making money? Making a name?

But there is an opportunity, except its not about making money. It about making something cool that works well for erotic CGI artists. We have the tech and the knowhow, and experience from what people want. Why rely on others to make sexless dollies with we can make one ourselves? ...and make it compatible with the content we already have! That's what I'm going to try. Hopefully we can stop reinventing the wheel all the time!!

Quote - No one is stopping any gential options being made, just that the HW3D store won't carry them.

The thing is, someone needs to make them... again, and again, and again!

Lali's Bits was really tough to make because V4 was just impossible in that area. Dawn is just as bad. To make a realistic genital, that looks nice and morphs well, is not easy. It would be so much easier if it were integrated into the mesh. Props come with all kinds of issues.

Quote - erogenesis, you done such a great job on Lali Bits (which I Love) maybe

you could make morphs for Dawn as well. Give that girl all those working

parts we love so well. Looking forward to your work.

thanks :)

but I really feel that they should start making that themselves, or at least provide the polys for it. The morphing would be so much easier, and look 100x better.

I have never understood why figure modellers are hesitant to do genitals. All you have to do is make a no-genital morph and set it on right out of the box. In this way, those who are offended by the human form don't have to ever see it, and those who use all the parts have them available.

My $.02

HW3D made their opinions clear in the development of Dawn, that is their right to do so as they did the work.

They said they had no objections to others making those options, so others are free to do so.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - HW3D made their opinions clear in the development of Dawn, that is their right to do so as they did the work.

They said they had no objections to others making those options, so others are free to do so.

I agree 100%, unk. I was simply stating that there is another alternative. Obviously, no one goes there, so the cottage inductry making these parts continues. No harm, no foul.

Quote - HW3D made their opinions clear in the development of Dawn, that is their right to do so as they did the work.

sure it definitely their right, no arguing with that, but I just find it lousy that they didn't bother with it, like what dude below here says:

Quote - I have never understood why figure modellers are hesitant to do genitals. All you have to do is make a no-genital morph and set it on right out of the box. In this way, those who are offended by the human form don't have to ever see it, and those who use all the parts have them available.

Indeed, why is it such a big deal?

Agree, someone will make the gentials, they will sell them, they make money.

I have no probs in that, but it's like someone writing a book and then people saying they don't like the ending and they should have done it their way.

They said right from the beginning about what would be happening with genitals, no one who read the info and threads could say they didn't know.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Lets put it another way.

Dawn didn't launch with a MR skin that I could work with to make more options.

I mentioned it once and then moved on, sooner or later one will appear and I can get on with what I want to do.

Just because someone wants certain things does not mean they are there to start with.

The same thing with any genitals, sooner or later they will appear.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG