Except for V4, Dawn already has more support than any other native Poser figure. And in 2 or three years, we'll probably be seeing Dawn 2.

Quote - It should be self explanatory. There are no hoops to jump through to get V4 to work in Poser. There are many users who do not want to use anything but Poser, and many of them haven't upgraded to P9+. 

(eta: x-posted the above w/ coleman)

 

Then it's curious that several major vendors at rendo has hoop jumped to make V6 clothing, characters, poses and props over making things for native dawn. Some of those same vendors have set up shop over at DAZ too and not Hivewire. And some vendors that were staunchly against genesis have made items for them after their Dawn offering flopped and ended up on rendo's hot list a few weeks back.

Sounds like more people would rather hoop jump than load up Poser native Dawn.

Quote - But there have been several sales of P10 and PP2014 with drastic cuts on the price, making it very affordable for those who weren't necessarily able to upgrade right away before. So that will naturally have broadened the user base of P10. There are also other websites that still have P9 and PP2012 for sale, and have at times cut the prices rather drastically, again increasing the userbase. 

I got my upgrade to Poser 10 through a mac bundle (with 5 other mac programs) along with Anime Studio pro for $39.

That's like almost giving it away.

Quote - The difference with Poser is that you have to pay for your upgrades, and a lot of people don't upgrade right away. It takes them a good while to do so, either due to their finances or just not seeing anything that really stands out to them innitially. The economy hasn't been all that great for the last several years, so a lot of people can't afford upgrading software when they have other things in RL that are much more pressing. 

I think the most important thing in upgrades is that people will upgrade, regardless of finances, if there is a compelling reason to do so. If there is a must have feature, people especially those of us that are addicted to buying content, we will find a way to scrape up that money to get the product. It sounds like Smith Micro isn't there yet. If my tipping point is $10 when I got it in a bundle of mac programs I wanted, I think that's a problem that SM needs to look at.

I think SM's focus is more on resusing their and 3rd party content: from the fitting room, SSS to make older figures look better, to the game edition where their whole 5gb library can be licensed for games. I don't think they're particularly focused on figures and from the way these threads pop up from time to time about figures, maybe they should divert a little attention to that and not rely upon others to fill that void.

That said, I think the Poser group may be reluctant to do it because developing a good versatile figure sounds like it's a huge investment to do. And with SM's largest division, mobile, on shaky ground I don't think they'll be able to ask for a lot of money to do it either. 

Quote - So this is going to affect how well a new figure that requires that software is going to be recieved innitially. Vendors that attempted to incorporate the newer features into their content back when P9 was new, that are not supported by older versions, were likely not all that impressed with their sales early on so they gave up on it and went back to building content that was compatible with the last 10 years of Poser versions. Today their sales should be stronger for content with those features because there are many more users that have upgraded since then. 

 True, however failure is a strong motivator not to repeat doing something. 

Quote - I don't think Dawn is a doomed figure. She still has a loyal following who are supportive of her development and her developers. But like Coleman said, it's going to take time for that appeal to grow. HW3D are still developing for her, so they must be making enough from her currently to consider it beneficial to continue. 

I think the founders are pretty much in a position to burn through money because they are not necessarily reliant upon putting out product to make a living.

However the vendors are. I don't think Dawn was well received by the customers otherwise vendors would have kept releasing items for her. It looks like either those vendors either went back to V4, moved to V6 or are making items that work for both V4 and V6. There's an occasional Dawn item in the store, but the most support I've seen are hair fits.

And from looking at Hivewire's store, it looks like VanishingPoint has taken over. The first page is full of their back catalog you can get here. I'm thinking Hivewire has backed off its exclusivity clause because you can get the same things here as well as their own site as well. A good chunk of their items are props rather than figures. It seems like a lot of their major vendors that initially made product has went back over to DAZ, probably made more money there. The ones are left are a few that release over at contentparadise as well.

Quote - That said, I think the Poser group may be reluctant to do it because developing a good versatile figure sounds like it's a huge investment to do.

It's not as huge of an investment as you might think. But that depends on what your definition of "huge" is.

Mostly it just takes finding the right talent, and paying them what that talent deserves to be paid. There are a lot of character artists out there who can sculpt a realistic figure that looks like a photo, no 3D scanners necessary. It's an art form just as anything else and some of those artists put everything they have into it. Rigging is another talent, as is understanding proper mesh construction for animation. These skills don't just come from playing around in apps like Wings. They have to be trained and the skills have to be honed. When you combine those 3 aspects into one team you can produce some pretty nice results. The trick is finding the right team and getting them to want to work for you, and with each other. 

Poser's figures have pretty much always been sourced from 3d party artists and companies, at least until around P8. I think that's when they started using in-house character artists. 

Boy, there's an awful lot of assumptions going on in this thread.

First, that Dawn stuff doesn't sell here.  Well, that's assumption and BS, frankly.  You don't have those numbers and you don't have any facts.  Hell, half the people in this thread don't even know how Renderosity operates.

Dawn items being sold here are just like any other - they go into clearance and on sale just like any other product.  And Renderosity's "rules and regs" are different than those at RDNA.

No one posting here has Dawn sales numbers and they have no idea how Dawn products have sold or not sold.  I'd suggest everyone stop using conjecture.

Here's one clue....take a look at the What's Hot page here.  You'll see a whole lot more Dawn than you will Genesis on that page.  Based on my observations (and that's all they are) Genesis at Renderosity does far worse than Dawn ever did.  So, does that mean Genesis is a failure?  Of course not.  It's one store of many.

As I said, I don't use Dawn based on personal preference.  But, my own opinion is just that - opinion.

I just have to wonder if all this doom and gloom for Dawn isn't just professional jealousy and fear that she might actually succeed and supplant our other favorites.

It's simple for vendors.....when customers stop buying every V4 character and every V4 outfit put on the market, the vendors will move to the figure that sells like V4 does. 

So far, the V4 vendors are just fine selling more V4.

Looked at Whats Hot. I see about 10 G1 or G2 related products first top 4 pages and none for Dawn. Just an observation. I think you are making assumptions, but I am just assuming here.

Looking at trends there appears to be more stuff for both Genesis and Dawn in the last few months, both here and a RDNA so it appears that such items might be selling better.  Just an observation but of course this still does not match V4 items, that will take time.

Quote - Here's one clue....take a look at the What's Hot page here.  You'll see a whole lot more Dawn than you will Genesis on that page.  Based on my observations (and that's all they are) Genesis at Renderosity does far worse than Dawn ever did.  So, does that mean Genesis is a failure?  Of course not.  It's one store of many.

Ok, let's take a look at the hot page as you suggested. We'll walk through it together:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/?sb=hottest

The top spot, "DM's Fairy Pavilion", which is a prop set with poses for V4 and V6. And the props are in both Poser and DAZ Native formats. 

There's a few V4 items, as expected. The SAV Athena hair has V4, Dawn and Genesis fits. That's good.

Let's keep going.

Ok we have Sabby Brenda for V6, followed by OOT's leather suit for Genesis 2 females. No Dawn only products yet, but I'm sure she's here because you said that there's more Dawn stuff than Genesis. More V4 stuff, so she's good.

Ok now we have some M4 stuff, which is in short supply. PD Tom also has a support and a morph for the Genesis 2 Male (using the M4 morph). So there's another Genesis 2 item.

No Dawn items except for the hair fit on the first page? Didn't you say she was here? Oh well, let's try the second page.

More V4 stuff she's well taken care of, that's for sure :)

Ok there's a Tough Girls Pose set that supports V4 and V6, so there's another Genesis 2 item. 

There's some props (I like the rundown shack btw) and V4 stuff.

SAV's alpha scalp is back in the hot list, with good reason... with M4,V4, Anastasia fits, and a native Genesis prop in duf format.. so there's another genesis item.

Then there's some boots for the Genesis 2 female by lilflame. Then more V4 and another M4 character.

No Dawn items on that page either.

Third page has more V4 stuff, then Beach Club hair for V4 and Genesis 2 females. No fits for dawn though. Also another OOT outfit for Genesis 2 Females is there.

Page 4? Yep, more V4 and Genesis 2 female items and no Dawn.

So I took your advice and unless Dawn is spelled G-E-N-E-S-I-S, I think your statement is incorrect, because I just walked you through the opposite of what you just said.

Quote - > Quote - Here's one clue....take a look at the What's Hot page here.  You'll see a whole lot more Dawn than you will Genesis on that page.  Based on my observations (and that's all they are) Genesis at Renderosity does far worse than Dawn ever did.  So, does that mean Genesis is a failure?  Of course not.  It's one store of many.

Ok, let's take a look at the hot page as you suggested. We'll walk through it together:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/?sb=hottest

The top spot, "DM's Fairy Pavilion", which is a prop set with poses for V4 and V6. And the props are in both Poser and DAZ Native formats. 

There's a few V4 items, as expected. The SAV Athena hair has V4, Dawn and Genesis fits. That's good.

Let's keep going.

Ok we have Sabby Brenda for V6, followed by OOT's leather suit for Genesis 2 females. No Dawn only products yet, but I'm sure she's here because you said that there's more Dawn stuff than Genesis. More V4 stuff, so she's good.

Ok now we have some M4 stuff, which is in short supply. PD Tom also has a support and a morph for the Genesis 2 Male (using the M4 morph). So there's another Genesis 2 item.

No Dawn items except for the hair fit on the first page? Didn't you say she was here? Oh well, let's try the second page.

More V4 stuff she's well taken care of, that's for sure :)

Ok there's a Tough Girls Pose set that supports V4 and V6, so there's another Genesis 2 item. 

There's some props (I like the rundown shack btw) and V4 stuff.

SAV's alpha scalp is back in the hot list, with good reason... with M4,V4, Anastasia fits, and a native Genesis prop in duf format.. so there's another genesis item.

Then there's some boots for the Genesis 2 female by lilflame. Then more V4 and another M4 character.

No Dawn items on that page either.

Third page has more V4 stuff, then Beach Club hair for V4 and Genesis 2 females. No fits for dawn though. Also another OOT outfit for Genesis 2 Females is there.

Page 4? Yep, more V4 and Genesis 2 female items and no Dawn.

So I took you advice and unless Dawn is spelled G-E-N-E-S-I-S, I think your statement is incorrect, because I just walked you through the opposite of what you just said.

 

ROFL, OK, I was talking over a period of time, but whatever you say.  How long have you been watching the What's Hot page?  Me?  About 6 weeks......I see a trend.  You have a single day snapshot, and V4 + Genesis products, now that's hysterical.

Once again, I see a complete lack of facts.

Quote - Looking at trends there appears to be more stuff for both Genesis and Dawn in the last few months, both here and a RDNA so it appears that such items might be selling better.  Just an observation but of course this still does not match V4 items, that will take time.

True RDNA seems to have more for Dawn lately than Rendo.

Quote -
ROFL, OK, I was talking over a period of time, but whatever you say.  How long have you been watching the What's Hot page?  Me?  About 6 weeks......I see a trend.  You have a single day snapshot, and V4 + Genesis products, now that's hysterical.

Once again, I see a complete lack of facts.

Now it's a period of time? No I think I got it right and you got caught. ;) But it's all good. However, no matter how you want to adjust your argument, it's still not correct. We can walk through the products that were released in the 6 weeks and you'll see the same trend. The last dawn item I saw was a dress that was released maybe three weeks ago, may be one more item released. But there's been plenty of Genesis stuff released, that can't be denied no matter how you try to spin it.

Nice try though, but please fact check. You were off the chain with this one. Kudos. ;)

Quote - Looking at trends there appears to be more stuff for both Genesis and Dawn in the last few months, both here and a RDNA so it appears that such items might be selling better.  Just an observation but of course this still does not match V4 items, that will take time.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/?TopID=359562

I think if you look under the "Figures" column on the left you can see the break down products by figure. Poor M4.

Just went all the way back to page 20 of whats hot, which contains products releases much older than 6 weeks, and I am hardly seeing any stand alone Dawn products. But I might just be making wild assumtions here. So you say you've been following it for around 6 weeks? My point is this. If Dawn content was selling even at an average rate on a daily basis, it would appear somewhere on the first 20 pages.

Right, because the Hot List is the only stuff that ever sells on this site.

Terrance, and Zev0, what exactly is your point of being in this thread? Do you use Dawn in Poser? If not, why are you posting here? Because it appears to me that all you're trying to do is promote your opionions of Dawn's poor reception, or what you perceive to be poor. And looking at the thread title, that's not what the OP is asking for. It clearly states "post here if you use Dawn in Poser". 

Now I'm not the kind of mod that is real strict about keeping every conversation 100% in line with the thread topic, unless the subject requires it. I've tried that and it doesn't really work, and only winds up irritating a bunch of people - plus it takes more time than I have to spend on it, so I like to let people discuss things that sort of branch off into somewhat related aspects of the thread the way conversations do naturally, as long as they don't become arguments or become hostile. But some people like to carry it too far and start interjecting their own opinions and negativities in, as their way of promoting their own agenda, and that appears to be exactly what you're trying to do here. 

Now maybe I'm wrong on that, but so far none of your posts in this thread have proven otherwise. So unless you have something positive to contribute, I think your opinions have been made clear. Keep in mind they are only your opinions, which the thread topic didn't ask for to begin with. We all understand that you're DAZ vendors, so you're naturally going to promote DAZ content over anything else. I don't have a problem with that. What I do have a problem with is your insistence on turning these threads into a "Genesis is better than everything else" debate, and constantly trying to prove it with the debbie-downer attitude towards anything that is not a DAZ figure. Not everyone here wants to use DAZ figures, regardless of how well supported they might be.

Personally, I use Genesis and Gen4 and Smith Micro figures. I havent' started using Dawn to any real extent yet, and I've expressed the reasons for why that is in the past. But I don't have anything against her personally, or her creators or anyone who wants to build content for her, and I hope HiveWire is succesful with continuing to grow their community around her. Because she does have a following, however small and not up to your standards it might be. She has a group of people who do enjoy using her and want more content for her, and eventually that content will come. 

So I suggest to the two of you, and anyone else who doesn't want to use Dawn, don't use her if that's your choice. But you're not going to come in here and hammer on and on and on about why you think she's a failure. You've made your opinions clear, there's no reason to keep harping on about it because all it does is spread hostility. And if I have to remove you from the forum to prevent you from continuing this crap I will do so. I don't care that you might be vendors here, you're not exempt from the TOS and I will suspend you just as quick as I will anyone else who perpetuates this nonsense.

And, just for the record - while I haven't taken the time to actually check out Rosity's policy on it, you're not hiding anything from me by using alternate names. You might get away with it for the average forum user, but I know who each of you are and everything that comes through this site is recorded, to include IPs. 

So how about we get back to a more positive discussion about Dawn and those who enjoy using her, since that is after all what this thread is originally about. 

Yeah, let's talk a little bit about "combined" products, first.

If the vendor is kind enough to provide the Genesis stuff separated from the download, I just don't download the stuff I'm never going to use.  If they don't separate it?  I just delete the Genesis stuff.  No need to fill up my hard drive with stuff I'll never use.

Secondly, hair fits?  Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha, you're really going to count hair fits!  Now, that's hysterical.

I've never bought a hair fit in my life.  If I want hair to fit a new figure, I have Netherworks great Hair Conversion System.  I don't waste my money on hair fits in the marketplace.  Not for Dawn, not for M4, not for anyone.

Oh, and you really should talk a walk through the freebies.  Most of the Dawn hair fits were given away when she first came out. 

Again, this whole conversation is just conjecture on the part of folks who really, really, really need Dawn to fail.  They're afraid to compete with another product.

As to the multiple personalities, AS, I think most of us figured it out right along with you.  It's truly a pathetic attempt to cover up the fact that they need other figures to fail.

Quote - Then it's curious that several major vendors at rendo has hoop jumped to make V6 clothing, characters, poses and props over making things for native dawn. Some of those same vendors have set up shop over at DAZ too and not Hivewire. And some vendors that were staunchly against genesis have made items for them after their Dawn offering flopped and ended up on rendo's hot list a few weeks back.

Sounds like more people would rather hoop jump than load up Poser native Dawn.

 

This has probably more to do with more poser users moving over to DS so they can use Genesis1/2 more efficiently. Judging what I have read at Daz forums, several vendors have stated that if they leave out the PCF, their sales are just as good, which is why more and more products released at Daz are no longer poser compatible at all.

If the trend continues, the remaining majority of poser users are not using Genesis, and they will be looking for a different figure to take over from V4 eventually. It probably won't be Dawn, but it might be Dawn 2.

Yes, there is not a whole lot of content being made for Dawn atm, it's a slow trickle, but it is still there. Many users (and vendors) are waiting for the new SR2 release, and several vendors who initially didn't have an interest in Dawn, have stated that with the new release, they might take an interest in Dawn again. And many of them have stated an interest in their new Dusk figure (but that is a different discussion)

If you want to use Dawn or not, that is up to you, but she is far from doomed!

Huh? I never said Dawn was doing poorly. It doesn't seem the thread has been talking about dawn mostly though.

As far as using her, it's not a Poser render (was protyping) but I did do a little work with her two weeks ago between projects. I was trying to make a morph to address some of the addresses about the chin and also reduced the iris size so it's not huge in a lot of the morphs I see. I did a little slimming and pushing of the body a little (as I don't have any of the morphs, just pushing stuff in  zbrush).

As she's a WIP not sure where to take the morph, but I guess I can pull up some references and see what features look good. Feel free to add suggestions.

@ AmbientShade - FYI, I was mainly speaking about the tools and made one or two comments about Dawn. Was it negative? Yes. So what? Lot's of other people posted negative comments, but because I am a Daz PA I get singled out every time or come across as promoting?

Before I was a Daz PA and before Genesis was even created I took part in threads here and spoke about various figures, their situation and what would help them succeed or where they are going wrong in the exact same manner. Positive and negative comments. Nobody branded me then or had an issue with what I said.. This was the first community I joined, but lately people are so uptight when it comes to don't mention this figure or dont say this about that company. How can you learn or change a situation if you cannot compare with what is being done right and what is being done wrong? You get people asking why content isn't being made and as soon as you try to explain...well...ya..

What I do have a problem with is your insistence on turning these threads into a "Genesis is better than everything else" debate, and constantly trying to prove it with the debbie-downer attitude towards anything that is not a DAZ figure. Not everyone here wants to use DAZ figures, regardless of how well supported they might be.

And FYI I did not make a single "Genesis is better" comparison in this thread. I only replied to an assumption made about the Whats Hot charts. Only thing I was comparing was the tools and you participated in that discussion and there was no issues. Good points and bad points were made. Stop making blanket comments about self promotion please. It adds to the "Oh they are from Daz" propaganda.

Quote - > Quote -  

Terrance, and Zev0, what exactly is your point of being in this thread? Do you use Dawn in Poser? If not, why are you posting here? Because it appears to me that all you're trying to do is promote your opionions of Dawn's poor reception, or what you perceive to be poor. And looking at the thread title, that's not what the OP is asking for. It clearly states "post here if you use Dawn in Poser". 

Huh? I never said Dawn was doing poorly. It doesn't seem the thread has been talking about dawn mostly though.

I don't know where you get that idea, unless you're doing some selective reading.  Although to be fair, it does seem I have to keep insisting to certain people to keep the thread on topic.

Huh? I never said Dawn was doing poorly. It doesn't seem the thread has been talking about dawn mostly though.

As far as using her, it's not a Poser render (was protyping) but I did do a little work with her two weeks ago between projects. I was trying to make a morph to address some of the addresses about the chin and also reduced the iris size so it's not huge in a lot of the morphs I see. I did a little slimming and pushing of the body a little (as I don't have any of the morphs, just pushing stuff in  zbrush).

As she's a WIP not sure where to take the morph, but I guess I can pull up some references and see what features look good. Feel free to add suggestions.

Great render 

Thanks :)

I still need to work on the eye area and the head shape a bit. The thing is, i don't want to mess with the head too much otherwise it may cause issues with hair and hats. And the belly button needs a different shape. Her face, though not detailed, is distinctive so some time has to be taken to "un-dawn" her then build up from that. I may even make vilters happy by toning down the roundness of the breast... but the face needs the attention first.

I honestly to NOT like any of the current figures, male or female, they just don;t always suit my needs, which is why I have a problem staying interested in creating clothing for the MP since making clothing to fit the MORPHED versions but that don;t support the BASE figure just doesn;t sell so well. So I tend to drag my feet a lot, LOL, and make mostly what I need and the occatinal commercial product

Great morphs

Yep Zbrush is fun to use 

More and more of everything sold at DAZ is made for the DAZ Studio4 core... even the scene and prop sets. Yet, the DSON runs in Poser with limited capabilities still. I must say, DAZ has been saving me a ton of money this past year. I've turned to commissioning vendors to make unique stuff for Poser with the money I have saved.

This strategy of DAZ is good for Dawn if she can be more aggressively marketed to the Poser crowd. This is the time to push her hard again. Undecided folks are starting to veer towards Genesis thinking there's nothing else available that's new beyond Gen4 people.

Hint hint to Dawn folks

Quote - More and more of everything sold at DAZ is made for the DAZ Studio4 core... even the scene and prop sets. Yet, the DSON runs in Poser with limited capabilities still. I must say, DAZ has been saving me a ton of money this past year. I've turned to commissioning vendors to make unique stuff for Poser with the money I have saved.

This strategy of DAZ is good for Dawn if she can be more aggressively marketed to the Poser crowd. This is the time to push her hard again. Undecided folks are starting to veer towards Genesis thinking there's nothing else available that's new beyond Gen4 people.

Hint hint to Dawn folks

Dawn's only been around a little over a year now. You've got some people who can't use her, and some people who won't use her.  All you can really do is hope those numbers go down.

To get back to the original topic: I use Dawn. I like her. She's not my primary figure but I don't think I have a primary figure. I'm using her more than V4 at the moment though. I'm also eagerly awaiting Dusk. He will be better than Dawn for the same reason M4 was better than V4. Many of the kinks have been worked out and will have a full set of morphs at launch. I'm in dire need of a well supported weight mapped male figure for Poser, and no, the other couple of contenders won't do.

I'm also looking forward to HW3D doing a modern child figure for Poser. I'm probably one of the few who is at all interested in that but for some reason I like to have a family of similar figures. I think the kid should look like dad (he better look like dad, know what i mean). Ironic that the figures most in need of flexibility and bending are the most overlooked with all this weight mapping and stuff.

I guess I support Hivewire more than Dawn per se. They do have a cult following and I'm one of them. I don't need her to "knock V4 off her throne" or be a "V4 killer". She just has to continue to improve and will gain more support over time. I'm in no hurry.

Attached Link: http://luminescentriver.deviantart.com/

There are some issues that I do have with her such as the way the morphs are organized in the dial settings, the lack of clothing support. There were a few bending issues, but it looks like those are going to be corrected for SR2. I also was not fond of her broad shoulders until I realized that all I need to do is scale them and they scale easily in relation to the whole mesh so it does not break apart as some do.

As to the ethnicity question that has come up. I like doing renders with ethnic variety myself. Anyway, I made a Caucasian character for only Poser  for her and sold 20--I made a Native American for her and included native Poser and DS support and sold a total of 4 including sales for both versions-- this is not a unique experience to Dawn development--just saying. What people purchase is what drives the market.

At the top of this post, I included a link to a gallery of an artist who uses her almost exclusively.

some body pass the beers out :)

"There are some issues that I do have with her such as the way the morphs are organized in the dial settings"

I agree that the default groupNode structure could be better - I find the term "Transforms" to be a bit irritating for one thing, and also redundant.

So,  using EditPadLyte, I changed it in BODY into a stucture that I like and added -collapse 1-  most everywhere so that I can open what I want without other stuff in my way.  It is easy to change in a text editor.  Not so easy in a Poser file editor, so you must pay attention to the { }. 

Here is what I set up for a Function only version of Dawn. I removed almost all of the parnMode lines.  Shape morphs would have their own section similar to Function. One can add as many sub categories as desired.

    channels
        {
        groups
            {
            groupNode General
                {
                collapsed 1
                groupNode Translation
                    {
                    collapsed 1
                    parmNode xtran
                    }
                groupNode Rotation
                    {
                    collapsed 1
                    }
                groupNode Scale
                    {
                    collapsed 1
                    }
                }
            groupNode Control
                {
                collapsed 1
                groupNode Head
                    {
                    collapsed 1
                    parmNode FBMCTRLHeadNeckTwist
                    }
                groupNode Eyes
                    {
                    collapsed 1
                    parmNode FBMCTRLEyesUpDown
                    }
                groupNode Torso
                    {
                    collapsed 1
                    parmNode FBMCTRLTorsoTwist
                    }
                groupNode Arms
                    {
                    collapsed 1
                    parmNode FBMrCTRLArmUp
                    }
                groupNode Hands
                    {
                    collapsed 1
                    parmNode FBMrCTRLThumbGrasp
                    }
                groupNode Legs
                    {
                    collapsed 1
                    }
                groupNode Feet
                    {
                    collapsed 1
                    }
                }
            groupNode Function
                {
                collapsed 1
                groupNode Eyes
                    {
                    collapsed 1
                    }
                groupNode Breast
                    {
                    collapsed 1
                    }
                groupNode Abdomen
                    {
                    collapsed 1
                    }
                groupNode Arms
                    {
                    collapsed 1
                    parmNode FBMTricepFlexR
                    }
                groupNode Glutes
                    {
                    collapsed 1
                    parmNode FBMGluteFlexR
                    }
                groupNode Legs
                    {
                    collapsed 1
                    parmNode FBMGastrocFlexR
                    }
                }
            groupNode Expressions
                {
                collapsed 1
                groupNode Head
                    {
                    collapsed 1
                    groupNode Brows
                        {
                        collapsed 1
                        }
                    groupNode Mouth
                        {
                        collapsed 1
                        }
                    groupNode Jaw
                        {
                        collapsed 1
                        }
                    groupNode Eyes
                        {
                        collapsed 1
                        parmNode FBMEyeCloseR
                        }
                    groupNode Expressions
                        {
                        collapsed 1
                        parmNode FBMExpressionSurprise
                        }
                    }
                }
            }

EClark1894 : I know your a vender for Roxie. I've seen a lot of your Roxie post.
Now there's Dawn post.

I like Roxie,Dawn just fine but since the stores are 99.9% Vicky.

Might I humbly suggest you turn your focus on Vicky.

With

Blacksmith providing texture conversion,

NetherWorks - hair conversion,

PP2014 - clothing conversion

V4 products can be raw material for Dawn and Roxie  and except for the textures, a lot of other figures too.