DAZ was in the right place at the right time. killer timing.

And they where willing to make 60,000 polycount characters for Poser 4.I swear ,60,000 polycount characters for Poser 4 ,that's the definition of insane.

Things change .Poser 4 DAZ was not the same 2015 DAZ.DAZ has changed a lot.so the DAZ that made V4 no longer exist.

V4 could not reign for ever.

There are no kingdoms with out a Queen. So either Poser gets a new Queen or falls.

Softimage was the King of CGI App's .Softimage has fallen. R.I.P.

@ SSbryan - Doesn't matter what gets said, doesn't matter who is singled out, doesn't matter who hates what, all that matters is what is happening. Store trends don't lie. Majority of vendors support where the money is at. Hate Genesis all you want, slam Daz, hell call them names if it makes you sleep at night. Bottom line, it ain't going to change the fact that it is the money maker. And frankly, as content developers, that is the no.1 attraction. Sure there are those who do this for the love where money doesn't really matter, but to most of us this is our jobs. "Oh please support Dawn, she is lovely." How about Dawn supports us with high enough sales?

There is a reason most vendors have moved on, or don't bother with certain figures. But is this content developers fault? Not really. In fact it comes down to user interest. If nobody cares about a figure anymore, there is nothing you can do to change peoples minds or force them to use it. Supply and demand. That is what it's all about, and that is what we cater for. If there is no real demand for a figure, we are not going to supply for it. And we cannot afford to go on demands of a few vocal individuals, we follow sales numbers. Same can be said with software support. If sales for one doesn't warranty support anymore, it will be dropped.

Oh one more thing, what is this whole confidence with our choice nonsense? Of course I am confidence with my choice lol. Me commenting in these threads have nothing to do with that. I used to comment here long time before I was a vendor. And FYI, if I choose to reply to a Daz forum I'll do so on Daz's site, not some empty alternative space here or on any other site. This is like saying why don't more Poser users comment in the Poser section at Daz:)

In closing, remember, content sales determines demand, not the fitting room or conversion software. People want results, and most don't want to tinker and create things themselves. Most do not have the time. Hell I am the same. Instead of just posing a figure, I'll go get a pose set that does what I want and saves me time. My end goal is to render, not spend hours converting things. This is a store, people come here to buy lol. People will pay for the service and convenience of quality content. What you're saying is everybody should walk rather than pay for a bus drive into town. Now, I am going to make my coffee, and continue to supply the demand. LaterZ. Enjoy your walk. And put on a jacket, it's quite chilli outside.

Oh one more thing, remember, the new user coming into this market do not have years of content where they can go on a fitting room spree (if they will even do that). They will buy what is new and currently available that works for the intended figure, just like you did when your old content was new. What you're saying is vendors must not release anything new because everybody can buy or use 7 year+ old content and people can just convert those. Yes, that sounds like a plan that's a viable business:). People want new and shiny, who are we to deny them that?

"DS is designed to maximize vendor income, not to preserve customer investment."

Lol this is why vendors support Daz. So now whenever people wonder why other figures get no support, please tell them that exact line. And FYI, by buying more content you are increasing your investment. Guess what. I can use my G1 content on G3, I can use my G2 content on G3. Ha, I can use my G3 content on G1 and G2. I can add V4 into the mix as well if I want. That's the power of clones. At Hivewire you see the same thing happening of how users are fitting older content for DS Dawn via clones. How is that not preserving customers investments? Honestly, I don't even know why I bother to respond sometimes when half the stuff you say is a simple hate speech with no backing whatsoever to your claims. Frankly, I am disturbed at your rage against Vendors. Seems you only like them when they supply content for the figures you use, or if they provide content that have no relation to Daz in anyway.

Hmm, as long as our computers are based on technology first described by Julius Edgar Lilienfeld in 1926 I don't see a reason why i shouldn't use V4 anymore :)

Hmm...

I think Wolf still posts here because there are still animators, and people who use a genuine multi program pipeline for their work around here, and he can speak to the realities for those people.

As for mesh.... Well since it doesn't expire, it's still viable. Personally, I wish DAZ would just create a new g-thing and rig it so it doesn't work in Poser and be done with it. It's been years since they got a penny of my money (along with a lot of other former serious customers), and cutting the umbilical once and for all would be a godsend. If they want to keep the 4th gen figures available, cool. If not, cool. If someone figured out how to make the new non compatible figure somehow partially compatible through a dozen python scripts, cool. Hivewire is trying to become the goto for Poser figures, which is also cool.

Personally, I wish DAZ would just create a new g-thing and rig it so it doesn't work in Poser and be done with it.

They have with Genesis3.

SIgh this damn time limit on editing!!! Wanted to add the reason G3 was made the way it is, was not with killing Poser support in mind, but making it industry standard so it works with apps such as Max and Maya. Poser is more than welcome to implement the requirements to get it to work, but that is up to them if they want to.

Betcha Dinoraul makes pretty decent coin with his Poser figures, fitting room not required, dson not required. Hell they even work in star trek renders with Poser 4 workflow. Lol. Artists like him probably sit back and laugh at the commentary of these ping pong matches. Strictly inna box, for all concerned players. Like horses chasing a carrot on a stick.

To answer the OP question: Why do you need to leave V4. She's not going anywhere. You have her in your runtime(S). I bet you, just like me, have so much V4 content that if you create one render per day, It'll take you a few years to use up all her content.

If you want to explore other figures, whether Genesis or Dawn, just add them to your arsenal. You don't need to abandon V4.2 Don't let others (you know who you are) persuade you into buying stuff you don't want. You don't owe them anything. It is your choice and your money. You have full control of it. Dawn, G1, G2, G3 will not make your art better. You, as an artist makes those figures look good. And don't think of buying new content as an investment. You expect a return from an investment. None of those 'investments' those vendors mentioned will guarantee or even give you a return. None of the statistics matters. It is a freaking hobby. We didn't invest in the 3d content. We willingly pay for it, and we intend to use it. Perhaps if enough vendors abandon support for V4, there maybe an opportunity for a small niche market for V4.

I use V4, Dawn, G2F in poser, G3F in DS4.8 Render on. JV

I have been using poser since poser 2. I am using poser pro 2014 and DAZ studio. I like both. I have a lot of content for V4 but i am not buying stuf for V4 anymore, i do purchase stuff for G3F. I hope that there will be a V4 replacement i am not planning on using V4 forever. Project E looks promising. I am afraid that POSER will suffer from this lack of new blood, i guess that starters will favor DS over POSER. DS being free and the base content also,.....i know it is expensive when one becomes a serious user.

I also guess that a lot of people switched from poser to DS. As other people posted V4 is such a huge success and has so much content, that other figures will always be less supported.

I hope people like erogenesis and the people at hivewire will get all the support they need from our community.

JVRenderer posted at 10:08PM Mon, 05 October 2015 - #4232306

To answer the OP question: Why do you need to leave V4. She's not going anywhere. You have her in your runtime(S). I bet you, just like me, have so much V4 content that if you create one render per day, It'll take you a few years to use up all her content.

If you want to explore other figures, whether Genesis or Dawn, just add them to your arsenal. You don't need to abandon V4.2 Don't let others (you know who you are) persuade you into buying stuff you don't want. You don't owe them anything. It is your choice and your money. You have full control of it. Dawn, G1, G2, G3 will not make your art better. You, as an artist makes those figures look good.

[...]

I use V4, Dawn, G2F in poser, G3F in DS4.8 Render on. JV

We definitely need some kind of "like" button here... Thanks JVRenderer, that was very well said!

Poser works fine without using any of the figures mentioned. Depends on what you're using it for and how so in relation to other software... Also, I agree with pikesPit. Good summation JV.

the one thing with 'Leaving V4' is.. well what are you getting out of it, and what is it costing you. Is there really that much content being cranked out for other figures that is -that- much different than whats available for v4? Of course the newer figures themselves have lots of advantages over v4 BUT.. I find a lot of those advantages are kind of hidden once you make use of all your content (Ie.. clothe the poor girl!) Usually for me, the point comes to start using a new figure when there is a piece of content that I MUST have and its not available for a figure that i do already have.

No....I'll still continue to use V4, she has so many faces, the only reason I've V6 and 7 is because certain props and clothing weren't available for V4. If Vendors made more clothing in fantasy styles like the Sinful Witch and Dark Princess and not just bikini and lingerie styles I wouldn't have gone for V6 or 7....it was either buy them or learn to make my own and that's another learning curve I'm not ready to take any time soon.

I see no reason not to use any figure available, from Poser 2 on up. I'm like Cimarron or meatSim; rather than convert conforming content, I just use the figure it was made for. If there's a specific type of face or body I want to use, I'll pick whatever works best, whether that be Dawn, Sydney, V4, V5, V6, MyMichelle, Angela, etc, etc. These days, expressions have become the most important aspect of a figure for me, so once I've decided the expression I want, I'll test various figures to see which gives me the closest approximation to what's in my mind. Frequently, that means niche and rarely used figures will be the best for a particular use! But when it comes to content, among them all -- and the males, as well -- I have so much content now that I won't live long enough to use it all.

If the question here is whether -- as a vendor -- you should "leave V4" -- that's entirely up to each individual. Lots already have, from the looks of it.

It would be a shame, though, if a lot of V4 content disappeared from the market altogether, since some of it is truly, truly top notch, even stuff that was made a decade ago. Smith Micro might do well to consider offering really good terms at Content Paradise for vendors whose generation 3 and 4 Daz items aren't selling (or even being accepted) at other venues -- if for no other reason than to keep it available. A lot of very hard work went into all this content, and as long as you can still load a figure with traditional rigging into some kind of software to render it, it is perfectly usable.

Just my two cents. I've tried using Genesis and have never got it to work yet. The characters look nice but no better than V4 to me. I don't like no program that you can not load and use without having to load more addons to make it work. Daz should have sold Studio 4 full loaded just as Poser where one click and there she is. This DSON thing just ain't worth fooling with to me. Never got it to work anyway. V4-V3 will always be the Best to me. Super thanks to those still making characters and stuff for V4.

For me, "Why leave V4?" isn't quite the right question. For me, it's at least three different questions.

Why support a new figure? Because vendors won't keep making things for V4 (or M4). If you like buying new stuff, and you want that new stuff to work in Poser, you should support a modern Poser figure. Otherwise, vendors will eventually stop supporting Poser altogether. It's about time to you know what or get off the pot. We all, including Poser's creators, have lots of choices. I've seen Poser used at the university I used to work at, in all kinds of works randomly online, in the oddly popular anime RWBY (and then talked about by its fans like it's high tech), and even once in a hospital. In every single one of the cases I've seen outside of this community, it was used for creating content, with only the default content used. In none of those cases did its users buy content.

If the Poser content community supports a new figure, just as we did with the highly expensive, poorly UV mapped, limited morphing V1, it will benefit the Poser content community at least as much as it does the creator, if not more. V4 is what she is today because she got years of community support. In the form of millions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of man hours. As someone who felt she was different but not better than V3, and said so when she came out, I'd say she got that support from the beginning. I remember how many vehemently told me the community would fix all the problems I listed immediately (we only fixed her shoulders, and that took years), and how very few had similar criticism. Trust me, you remember when you get dogpiled. V4 got widespread brokerage support immediately, with only a very few vendors supporting older female figures in releases after hers.

No single group, let alone a single person, is going to be able to do the same, no matter how much time they have. If we wait for that to happen, those groups will have to move on from the Poser market long before they're able to duplicate all that work.

If we want future Poser content, we have to support a modern Poser figure. DAZ won't do squat for Poser users anymore. That ship sailed when they made DS, and some people are just now noticing it pulling out of the harbor. It's past time to move on.

Oh, and I also just really like some of the more recent advances, like topological improvements and weight mapping.

Why keep using Poser? In my own opinion, because DS is annoyingly limited, very closed, and poorly documented. Can you sculpt in it like in Poser? No. Sure it's got GoZ, but so does Poser. That's like saying Poser has AutoFit because it has GoZ (instead of more accurately saying it has it because it has the Fitting Room). I could fix the mesh problems I had with V6 in DS in seconds in Poser. I find it hugely frustrating to work without a sculpting tool in my posing software. Can you make your own dynamic clothes, or convert other people's clothes? No. DS users have to use an arcane process just to use MD clothes there, and from how it's been described to me, it's got some significant flaws. You have to treat poses as morphs, which (from what I've been told) has the same problem using morphs instead of rigging does. I can use MD clothes in Poser, and even convert some conformers. And I can do what I do most- make my own clothes in Blender and use them in Poser. For me, that's a whole lot I can't do in DS. Can I make add softbody or cloth dynamics to mesh hair? No. You look at, for instance ken1171, who uses soft body physics on his figures and hair all the time. If wolf359's work is the standard for professional, his animation is more than adequate for professionals. My aspirations aren't so high in that area. I hope to use soft body physics on hair in the future, and if I can get it to work half as well, I'll be ecstatic. Can you build your own materials, like you can in Poser? Well, technically yes, but there's no documentation about any of the nodes (or "bricks"). I mean zero. Can you just load DS source meshes into other programs the way you can in Poser? No, because DS uses a custom, proprietary format for its source meshes. As far as I can tell, they're no more efficient than .obz files, but a whole lot less easy to mess with. Which means it's harder for me to make morphs that work properly in DS. In Poser, it's been dead easy- load mesh from Runtime (maybe after unzipping) and sculpt. In DS, I have to use an exporter, which adds a layer of error to work with. Can you edit DS files in an editor? Only if you mean a text editor. There's no equivalent to the free or commercial apps out there to edit Poser files. And DS files are full of extraneous information that clutters the file. Information you might not want in files you publish. But the community seems to poo-poo the idea of an editor, so I don't see it happening any time soon.

Which is just one of many examples where people flame and rant about an issue in Poser, yet make light of it in DS.

Sure, I'd love for Poser to be even better than it is. But as a content creator, even if I stopped selling Poser content (which I could see happening- brokerages aren't going to accept V4 content forever, and they're already pushing G3 support hard), I wouldn't stop using Poser and use DS instead. I like being able to make what I need and hack what I have. And not only is that sometimes impossible in DS, so far as I've tried and witnessed, it's always crazy difficult. From my perspective, DS is easier when you don't mind the work it forces you to do and/or don't mind working inside of very particular boundaries. DS is the only app I have ever used with gaping holes in its documentation, where even its experts don't know how things actually work. Which frankly, makes sense. DS is a loss leader meant to sell content. Poser is a posing tool for content creators that includes content as a loss leader and an example the way Photoshop includes stock art. Of course DS makes creating harder for ordinary folk. It will probably make things harder and harder as DAZ customers become more and more of a captive audience. I'm sure it's a lot easier for PA's in the DAZ inner circle who get advance copies of DS and access to people who can tell you how stuff really works. But that ain't me, nor is it most people.

Why keep using V4? Well, for the same reason you might as well use V3 (much more realistic facial features) or V2 (TenTen, anyone?). Because when you pair modern features like the Morph Tool, subdiv, and bullet physics with older features like cloth dynamics, and render them with modern materials, you can get great results out of unique and high quality content that you already own. I have a ton of content for V4, but I think I have even more for V3 and A3. Sadly, not as many morphs. And I do really appreciate the weight mapped versions of V4.

And here's the thing. If we just replace V4, we'll have exactly the same problem we have now if that one figure creator decides they want to stop supporting Poser. The Victoria line is still full of innovations discovered and shared by the community. If you even look at 3D in general when V1 came out, Victoria wasn't special until we made her so. Most V1 and V2 morphs were custom. It wasn't until V3 that "characters" were just dial spins. JCM and ERC were community inventions. All that time, work, energy, and money will have gone to waste if we don't transfer what we learned to other figures. And it certainly doesn't make sense to make the same singular and risky investment a second time.

Over all, I think we need to get back to our roots. When I came to this community, new projects were greeted with cheers. People tried new things, and others encouraged them. Sure we cheered when people did stuff for new figures, but we were just as enthusiastic when people did things for older or less popular figures. People didn't bitch about Maya Doll, or tell BatLab or Yamato not to bother with her. We didn't try to silence people who liked Terai Yuki. I only saw people marvel when some forum member (I forget who) made the V2 teen into an amazingly real middle aged woman (one of the few Poser or DS figures I've ever seen who had proper hips). IIRC, that was during V3's reign. We championed projects that expanded what was possible in Poser. And we didn't spend so much energy discouraging others just because they wanted to do something different.

Excellent analysis, kobaltkween! The last paragraph really hits home...

What kobaltkween said.....

I will keep using V4 and poser, I played around with Genesis 2 in poser but to be honest I still think V4 with some fixes looks as good as if not better than G2 and all daz keep doing is launch new g models and then make you get the same stuff again , I honestly don't see any difference between G2 and G3, my spend on new content from vendors has gone down from around £200 a month to maybe £20 ATM as most vendors jumped on the G3 camp while its new.

Hopefully many will return to supporting V4 again in the future and tap into the people out there like me that have money to spend but only on content for the figures I like not the ones Daz want to push as the next must have.

kobaltkween posted at 6:48PM Mon, 19 October 2015 - #4233437

For me, "Why leave V4?" isn't quite the right question. For me, it's at least three different questions.

Why support a new figure? Because vendors won't keep making things for V4 (or M4). If you like buying new stuff, and you want that new stuff to work in Poser, you should support a modern Poser figure. Otherwise, vendors will eventually stop supporting Poser altogether. It's about time to you know what or get off the pot.

I have Dawn and SE Dawn and Dusk and their morphs and some skins -- and some gorgeous dynamic clothing. But before I buy anything else for them, I need to see something I want. I'm not just going to buy for the sake of putting money in vendors' hands. Hivewire might as well put a "donate" button on the site, if that's what we need to do.

Unfortunately, it's a catch-22. If people don't buy, vendors don't make. But if vendors don't make, people won't buy. This isn't solved by asking people to buy things they don't want. Nor is it solved by asking vendors to make things people don't buy. That's the market, and unfortunately, if Poser content cannot make it in the market, then It speaks to a weakness in the business model somewhere. This was predicted by numerous people. And now, when I look at Renderosity and RDNA, I see those predictions coming true.

Now it's got to the point that customers like me aren't asking whether such and such a figure will continue to be supported, but whether the software itself has a future. [Edit: I think it does -- among those DIY'ers who like to kitbash, convert, and model their own stuff. But I don't have the same optimism about Poser content because, for obvious reasons, content was never strongly enough supported by the very people who like to boast that they make their own. It's the non-creators that get belittled so much in the community who mostly funded all that development you described. And now, I guess, too many of us are saying, "No."]

moriador posted at 4:42AM Tue, 20 October 2015 - #4234355

Now it's got to the point that customers like me aren't asking whether such and such a figure will continue to be supported, but whether the software itself has a future. [Edit: I think it does -- among those DIY'ers who like to kitbash, convert, and model their own stuff. But I don't have the same optimism about Poser content because, for obvious reasons, content was never strongly enough supported by the very people who like to boast that they make their own. It's the non-creators that get belittled so much in the community who mostly funded all that development you described. And now, I guess, too many of us are saying, "No."]

I was thinking pretty much the same thing while reading the first part of your post.

I think Poser itself will last for a while, among the die-hard fans that prefer it over all the other software available and are willing/able to customize the content they have to suit their needs, and those who learn how to make their own or are willing to pay someone what it costs to make it for them. But it does seem that the majority of content sales for it are dying out and there's a number of reasons for that. I do foresee a point where Poser is no longer being developed but still being used by the devotees. I do think there's still a fairly large market viability for environments though, and not very many people willing to to make them - maybe due to the time involved, or like with a lot of the female stuff, it's just easier to make a quick buck on another bikini that takes an hour or two to make than a house that takes weeks.

I've never been a big content buyer myself. I have bought some in the past when I came across things that I liked but most of that was in my earlier days of Posering. I've never had an interest in rendering pin-ups of scantily-clad females. The whole reason I started using Poser to begin with was because I wanted an easy way (lol) of creating visual representations of characters I was writing about, which were mostly male, and the more practical content, especially for males - just never existed or was usually of such low quality that I wasn't willing to spend money on it, or just didn't suit my needs. I have a personal philosophy that if I have to modify something I'm buying, beyond some retexturing or minor adjustments - then I might as well just build it myself from scratch. So I learned how to make things on my own. Over time that's grown into becoming a source of income for me by doing private commissions - the vast majority of which is for male characters because that's what I get the most requests for - you know, that content that never sells. ;)

These days if I buy anything it is either something I just don't have the patience or time to build myself, or - more commonly - a utility that makes my job of content creation easier or faster.

Poser content market: what is happening is under the eyes of everybody. Little factoid for those who do not go to DAZ forums: Stonemason wrote that he has terminated Poser support and has uninstalled Poser; I do not think that there is anything more to add.

Poser itself: it is fast heading towards Bryce territory, a twilight zone of being neither alive nor dead. As long as you have a computer capable of running it you can keep running it; the wisdom of self marginalizing into a shrinking community is left to the pondering of the readers.

AmbientShade posted at 7:47AM Tue, 20 October 2015 - #4234387

moriador posted at 4:42AM Tue, 20 October 2015 - #4234355

Now it's got to the point that customers like me aren't asking whether such and such a figure will continue to be supported, but whether the software itself has a future. [Edit: I think it does -- among those DIY'ers who like to kitbash, convert, and model their own stuff. But I don't have the same optimism about Poser content because, for obvious reasons, content was never strongly enough supported by the very people who like to boast that they make their own. It's the non-creators that get belittled so much in the community who mostly funded all that development you described. And now, I guess, too many of us are saying, "No."]

I was thinking pretty much the same thing while reading the first part of your post.

I think Poser itself will last for a while, among the die-hard fans that prefer it over all the other software available and are willing/able to customize the content they have to suit their needs, and those who learn how to make their own or are willing to pay someone what it costs to make it for them. But it does seem that the majority of content sales for it are dying out and there's a number of reasons for that. I do foresee a point where Poser is no longer being developed but still being used by the devotees. I do think there's still a fairly large market viability for environments though, and not very many people willing to to make them - maybe due to the time involved, or like with a lot of the female stuff, it's just easier to make a quick buck on another bikini that takes an hour or two to make than a house that takes weeks.

I've never been a big content buyer myself. I have bought some in the past when I came across things that I liked but most of that was in my earlier days of Posering. I've never had an interest in rendering pin-ups of scantily-clad females. The whole reason I started using Poser to begin with was because I wanted an easy way (lol) of creating visual representations of characters I was writing about, which were mostly male, and the more practical content, especially for males - just never existed or was usually of such low quality that I wasn't willing to spend money on it, or just didn't suit my needs. I have a personal philosophy that if I have to modify something I'm buying, beyond some retexturing or minor adjustments - then I might as well just build it myself from scratch. So I learned how to make things on my own. Over time that's grown into becoming a source of income for me by doing private commissions - the vast majority of which is for male characters because that's what I get the most requests for - you know, that content that never sells. ;)

These days if I buy anything it is either something I just don't have the patience or time to build myself, or - more commonly - a utility that makes my job of content creation easier or faster.

Agree. Even with environments, as chaecuna points out, Poser support is drying up. I expect that, over at Daz, the hassle of converting material shaders and making an additional set of promos, makes it not worth offering Poser support even for architectural props and such that might otherwise convert fairly easily. We could talk about why this is, but it would just turn into another "software war" thread.

I love Poser, for all the reasons Kobaltkween mentioned. But, me, I have enough content to do most anything I want. I can't imagine how a brand new user to Poser would see things, though.

As a longtime poser user (since poser 2) i have recently downloaded daz studio and i am using it more then poser now. I did not like switching, but i had to. There is to much content out that is daz studio only and it is great content. I stil use poser, i will only upgrade poser to the next generation if it where possible to utilize new quality content.

All this in the long term is not good news for us users. I strongly belief in the benefits of companies having to compete. If daz would turn out to be the sole winner, we as user will pay for it money wise or in lesser quality. That is the nature of business.

So i hope that somehow there stil is a bright future for poser. I just can not see how that could be achieved.

I guess SM has some serious homework to do.

michelvanspeybroeck posted at 4:15PM Tue, 20 October 2015 - #4234451

As a longtime poser user (since poser 2) i have recently downloaded daz studio and i am using it more then poser now. I did not like switching, but i had to. There is to much content out that is daz studio only and it is great content. I stil use poser, i will only upgrade poser to the next generation if it where possible to utilize new quality content.

All this in the long term is not good news for us users. I strongly belief in the benefits of companies having to compete. If daz would turn out to be the sole winner, we as user will pay for it money wise or in lesser quality. That is the nature of business.

So i hope that somehow there stil is a bright future for poser. I just can not see how that could be achieved.

I guess SM has some serious homework to do.

---

Smith Micro has a list of softwares they sell.Poser is a software.

DAZ is a vendor.I know they make DAZ Studio but that was only so they could have more control as a vender. make there meshes compatible for all softwares .They even have Max n Maya on there home page Poser to

Smith Micro is not a vendor. None of the companies that owned Poser ever was a vendor. 90%+ of Poser users has always depended on DAZ n Vicky.

RorrKonn posted at 3:34PM Tue, 20 October 2015 - #4234464

michelvanspeybroeck posted at 4:15PM Tue, 20 October 2015 - #4234451

As a longtime poser user (since poser 2) i have recently downloaded daz studio and i am using it more then poser now. I did not like switching, but i had to. There is to much content out that is daz studio only and it is great content. I stil use poser, i will only upgrade poser to the next generation if it where possible to utilize new quality content.

All this in the long term is not good news for us users. I strongly belief in the benefits of companies having to compete. If daz would turn out to be the sole winner, we as user will pay for it money wise or in lesser quality. That is the nature of business.

So i hope that somehow there stil is a bright future for poser. I just can not see how that could be achieved.

I guess SM has some serious homework to do.

---

Smith Micro has a list of softwares they sell.Poser is a software.

DAZ is a vendor.I know they make DAZ Studio but that was only so they could have more control as a vender. make there meshes compatible for all softwares .They even have Max n Maya on there home page Poser to

Smith Micro is not a vendor. None of the companies that owned Poser ever was a vendor. 90%+ of Poser users has always depended on DAZ n Vicky.

I am aware that SM is a software company with many titles but as in all companies every product has to make a profit and as big as possible.

The succes of poser was in no small account made possible by the symbiosis between daz and poser. That is no longer the case and poser is in real need of other content creator(s). Sure there are content creators in this community and although i admire the hard work of these creators it is impossible as smal business to compete with daz.

So although sm does not provide content they surely must be aware that there profits from poser software will diminish if they do not come up with some third company creating content or if they would invest in the vendors that still are creating quality content from this community.

RorrKonn posted at 2:02PM Tue, 20 October 2015 - #4234464

michelvanspeybroeck posted at 4:15PM Tue, 20 October 2015 - #4234451

As a longtime poser user (since poser 2) i have recently downloaded daz studio and i am using it more then poser now. I did not like switching, but i had to. There is to much content out that is daz studio only and it is great content. I stil use poser, i will only upgrade poser to the next generation if it where possible to utilize new quality content.

All this in the long term is not good news for us users. I strongly belief in the benefits of companies having to compete. If daz would turn out to be the sole winner, we as user will pay for it money wise or in lesser quality. That is the nature of business.

So i hope that somehow there stil is a bright future for poser. I just can not see how that could be achieved.

I guess SM has some serious homework to do.

---

Smith Micro has a list of softwares they sell.Poser is a software.

DAZ is a vendor.I know they make DAZ Studio but that was only so they could have more control as a vender. make there meshes compatible for all softwares .They even have Max n Maya on there home page Poser to

Smith Micro is not a vendor. None of the companies that owned Poser ever was a vendor. 90%+ of Poser users has always depended on DAZ n Vicky.

Adobe is a software company. It does not make content either.

But, man, if you couldn't open, say TIFs with it or NEFs or TGAs or some other very commonly used file types within that industry, it would rapidly lose customers to the free software that does open those files -- except that with 2d files, it's possible to convert from one format to another easily. Moreover, it is possible to create content from scratch with nothing but Adobe software.

With Poser, you can create poses and materials using only Poser. But not models (unless you make them out of primitives). So SM is in a fairly unique position: they don't sell much supporting content for software that can't be used to create its own.

At some point, once you start using other software to create content -- because YOU HAVE TO -- isn't there always the chance that you might pose and render in that software as well? Unless Poser can keep up with future advances in full featured modelling software -- which is has so far, granted -- I'm wondering why any new customer would buy it at all.

The bigger issue is that it's also always possible that a large portion of Poser owners only bought or used the software in order to create content for it. If those people aren't planning on creating more content for Poser, they won't be buying Poser 11, either. Every vendor (or even freebie maker) who goes wholeheartedly over to making Daz Studio content is another customer lost to SM.

I think the technical term for what's about to happen is a downward spiral.

Smith Micro has a list of softwares they sell.Poser is a software.

DAZ is a vendor.I know they make DAZ Studio but that was only so they could have more control as a vender. make there meshes compatible for all softwares .They even have Max n Maya on there home page Poser to

Smith Micro is not a vendor. None of the companies that owned Poser ever was a vendor. 90%+ of Poser users has always depended on DAZ n Vicky.

I am aware that SM is a software company with many titles but as in all companies every product has to make a profit and as big as possible.

The succes of poser was in no small account made possible by the symbiosis between daz and poser. That is no longer the case and poser is in real need of other content creator(s). Sure there are content creators in this community and although i admire the hard work of these creators it is impossible as smal business to compete with daz.

So although sm does not provide content they surely must be aware that there profits from poser software will diminish if they do not come up with some third company creating content or if they would invest in the vendors that still are creating quality content from this community.

I really wouldn't expect Smith Micro to become vendors. Some of Smith Micro app's do not have a large users base. Guess when Poser is worthless to them there do like all the other companies n sell Poser.

At one time DAZ did make them a offer to add there code to Poser. Which would have made DAZ part owner of Poser. Who knows we might end up with DAZ Poser.

I can only assume Poser users will start depending on HW3D n Dawn like they did DAZ n Vicky.

RorrKonn posted at 6:37PM Tue, 20 October 2015 - #4234464

michelvanspeybroeck posted at 4:15PM Tue, 20 October 2015 - #4234451

As a longtime poser user (since poser 2) i have recently downloaded daz studio and i am using it more then poser now. I did not like switching, but i had to. There is to

Smith Micro has a list of softwares they sell.Poser is a software.

DAZ is a vendor.I know they make DAZ Studio but that was only so they could have more control as a vender. make there meshes compatible for all softwares .They even have Max n Maya on there home page Poser to

Those figures aren't compatible with max and maya out of the box, you still have to use FBX or buy a $90 alembic plug-in for them to work in those apps. Poser has the FBX and BVH covered, just not the alembic support.

Smith Micro has a list of softwares they sell.Poser is a software.

DAZ is a vendor.I know they make DAZ Studio but that was only so they could have more control as a vender. make there meshes compatible for all softwares .They even have Max n Maya on there home page Poser to

Smith Micro is not a vendor. None of the companies that owned Poser ever was a vendor. 90%+ of Poser users has always depended on DAZ n Vicky.

Adobe is a software company. It does not make content either.

But, man, if you couldn't open, say TIFs with it or NEFs or TGAs or some other very commonly used file types within that industry, it would rapidly lose customers to the free software that does open those files -- except that with 2d files, it's possible to convert from one format to another easily. Moreover, it is possible to create content from scratch with nothing but Adobe software.

With Poser, you can create poses and materials using only Poser. But not models (unless you make them out of primitives). So SM is in a fairly unique position: they don't sell much supporting content for software that can't be used to create its own.

At some point, once you start using other software to create content -- because YOU HAVE TO -- isn't there always the chance that you might pose and render in that software as well? Unless Poser can keep up with future advances in full featured modelling software -- which is has so far, granted -- I'm wondering why any new customer would buy it at all.

The bigger issue is that it's also always possible that a large portion of Poser owners only bought or used the software in order to create content for it. If those people aren't planning on creating more content for Poser, they won't be buying Poser 11, either. Every vendor (or even freebie maker) who goes wholeheartedly over to making Daz Studio content is another customer lost to SM.

I think the technical term for what's about to happen is a downward spiral.

At one time Photoshop cost to much now it's dirt cheap n there running specials all the time. Now there having difficulties giving Photoshop away.Wonder if all the $50 2D app's have anything to do with that.

ah Poser has never keeped up ,not even close.Not geting SubD's untill 2014 just says it all.

No I'm not exporting a character out of Houdini a $4500 app that has a $200 indie license to Posers.

AmbientShade posted at 6:57PM Tue, 20 October 2015 - #4234489

RorrKonn posted at 6:37PM Tue, 20 October 2015 - #4234464

michelvanspeybroeck posted at 4:15PM Tue, 20 October 2015 - #4234451

As a longtime poser user (since poser 2) i have recently downloaded daz studio and i am using it more then poser now. I did not like switching, but i had to. There is to

Smith Micro has a list of softwares they sell.Poser is a software.

DAZ is a vendor.I know they make DAZ Studio but that was only so they could have more control as a vender. make there meshes compatible for all softwares .They even have Max n Maya on there home page Poser to

Those figures aren't compatible with max and maya out of the box, you still have to use FBX or buy a $90 alembic plug-in for them to work in those apps. Poser has the FBX and BVH covered, just not the alembic support.

If I used a DAZ Poser character in Houdini I would just rig it in Houdini.no worries then ;)

Photoshop is not comparable to Poser. The only requirement to fully use Photoshop is a good eye-hand coordination; to fully use Poser you have to master modeling/UV mapping (in a different application(s)), master creating shaders in Poser and, if we are talking about humanoid figures, rigging in Poser. The complexity and variety of tasks required is significant and therefore the vast majority of Poser users will inevitably be buyers or at most kitbashers of content, who critically rely upon 3rd party products.

Poser (or DAZ Studio or Vue or Unity3D or Unreal Engine or iClone or whatever similar application) without content is like a fish without water, i.e. dead. Smith Micro should have had this very clear in their minds back in 2011: they had to decide whether to follow DAZ, licensing their tech or immediately and seriously nurture of a DAZ-indipendent content ecosystem. They did nothing like that (maybe following the myopic rants of the we-dont-need-no-stinkin-content crowd) and now we are seeing the inevitable outcome of that fatal mistake.

Please, tell your opinons, but people are saying that poser is almost dead, ask DAz3d why they made DSON. If Poser is dead, why not go on with the "only DAZ studio support" in genesis.

I don't know the future of Poser, but I don't know the future of Genesis either, because, although the "figure" is great, if you want to use it, you must to use DS, and some people hate that application.

Poser isn't dead. You cannot kill an app. However, lack of AAA content support can eventually seal it's fate in terms of user growth and future development for it. Also at the time Daz made Dson, Poser was part of its plans. However that is no longer the case as Genesis 3 is no longer Poser compatible. So yeah, SM needs to stand on their own two feet now. The company that kept them going with content support is on a different path, and by the looks of it, so are all the mainstream stores. So, there is a difference in opinion and fact adh3d. Fact is, Poser support is on the decrease. The question is, what can SM do to change that?

I'm not as worried about Poser as I am my ability to keep working with it. Poser could have a long happy life as part of a higher end pipeline. It could continue as a tool for using pre-made figures and content in conjunction with other software like Photoshop, Blender, C4d, Vue, Illustrator and others. It could retain and build a user base of creatives that weren't afraid of postwork, dynamic cloth, the fitting room or exporting an obj for custom morphs. There won't be as much content, but the people who thrive on alternative workflows can work around it. Studio users certainly did for a long time. I think there are more people outside the content community than we know of that are using Poser in a lot of different ways.

I still use her - I got a wonderful collection of 1st nation morphs over at RDNA that I can't live without - and are not available on any newer figure - or I'd be using it. Not my default figure - I like variety. I belong to the "Right tool for the right job" school as opposed to the "1 size fits all" school.

I have been playing around with the golum over the past year (Turning it into a Poser native figure - No DSON needed.) I have a lot of g1 & 2 content (over 800 packages according to the incredibly accurately named DIM.). The only thing that g3 brought to the table was a fat chick. Color me unimpressed.

Be careful what you wish for......

If you guys and gals want to go down the genesis road, just understand the costs involved. The costs are serious, even you buy everything at 72% off, like I did. Much more than a new copy of Poser Pro (I am not talking the upgrade price, I am talking MSRP). I won't address the computer costs - you Mac users, for the most part are SOL, unless you have one of the good Mac Pros. Ask yourself, how many hookerware outfits will you forgo for that Nvidia card?

There is no fun quite like reading the phrase:

Find someone to help you.

In the "documentation". Yes, that has been in the document center for a few years now. No, I don't believe that they will fix it - this is a QA team that after four months, still cannot figure out how to package an OSX product with an OSX installer.

There is no one in the DS world that is an equivalent to the folks we have in the Poserverse forums - there are no BagginBills, Nerd-3d, Snarrly-gribbly, extending out DS the way they have.

Is a fat chick really worth this aggravation?

Good luck in finding content you have purchased - most of the clothing texture packs have no indication of what product they work with. They are all hidden away under ego folders. Did I mention how much drilling down you will be doing? God forbid you have a product made for both g1& g2. The recomended file structure changed between g1 & g2. (See the Mad Nurse product for an extreme example). You WILL be spending quality time rationilizing what DS uses for a runtime.

Another annoyance - when you are looking at those characters - the only way to tell if the figure is a stand alone or the DS equivalent of a .pz2 file is your memory. Good luck with that.

By all means, have fun buying the same products over and over (Some clothing products have objs that go back to the P6 Jessi timefame (I bought them here).

Any of you total up the cost of the "clones" you will need to move clothing between generations? For that matter, buying all of the add-ons to move your legacy content over is about the cost of Poser Pro in and of itself - I've run the numbers.

Understand that the concept of movement morphs in clothing is a lost art with most of the genesis vendors. I don't know about the rest of you, but I kinda got used to them a decade ago. Nothing like having a male suit with no sit morphs. Easy fix of course, just drag the product into the cloth room and.... oh, wait.

By all means, enjoy going back to a Poser 4 feature set - I'll pass. Have fun with the fat chick.

Take special note of the vendors who are using the same texture sets for each of their separate characters (more than one of the "cool kid" vendors is pulling this stunt - nothing is more irritating to me than to discover that I dropped 10.77 on what at the end of the day was nothing but a set of dial spins.). They really, really don't like the idea of YOU repurposing resources you paid for.

Speaking of that - did anyone here notice that the entire Daz g2 line up had fewer characters released for it than were released for the SM G2 line (I counted - did you?). (Most of the "Sculpts" - Aiko 6, Olympia 6, etc only managed six or seven characters, the males were even less). Have fun figuring out how to make your images "unique" when you have fewer and fewer resources available to you.

For all of it's alledged better bending, it's still getting fix products released to fix flaws.

I realize that most of you won't care about the "All Caucasians, All The Time", but if you are story telling outside of a Logan's Run universe, you are going to be quite limited in what you can do - and what is up with all of those blue-eyed Asians?

Note how the price goes up & you get less (with the g2f, anyone notice that with many figures, nail colors are no longer included, those are now a separate product - I did.). Note how it becomes more difficult (not to mention expensive) with each generation to use the figures - pay special attention to the aforementioned "cool kid" vendors - they get access to tools that the great unwashed mass of vendors don't have access to ("HD" morphs, anyone?).

Pay special attention to the fact that the figures themselves are 50% more expensive that the prior version, which in turn, are more expensive than the first version. Have fun keeping up with the constant changes in direction.

All of this for a fat chick?

DAZ is selling single use razorblades. SM sells us the Barbershop.

ssgbryan ,really don't hold back just tell us how you fell ;) You have over 800 packs and 0 renders in the gallery ? How much money have you made off the 800 packs ? Did you make a profit ?

DAZ is a vendor .There business is to make money selling meshes. Can't hate them for that. But any vendor you don't like there business practices ,Well don't buy from them problem solved.

lets see I've been around since Poser3,4 V3,4 and I have bought maybe $200.00 or $300.00 worth of stuff.If you want my $$$ you half to earn it.

You might want to try HiveWire3D character Dawn. or adh3d characters

adh3d what app did you make your characters in ?

chaecuna posted at 7:20AM Wed, 21 October 2015 - #4234394

Poser content market: what is happening is under the eyes of everybody. Little factoid for those who do not go to DAZ forums: Stonemason wrote that he has terminated Poser support and has uninstalled Poser; I do not think that there is anything more to add.

Poser itself: it is fast heading towards Bryce territory, a twilight zone of being neither alive nor dead. As long as you have a computer capable of running it you can keep running it; the wisdom of self marginalizing into a shrinking community is left to the pondering of the readers.

So....Stefan has gone DS exclusive. I wish him well. Wow. The world didn't end. The man does brilliant work, but he is also one man. I'll miss his work, and he'll miss my money. I'll find alternatives, and he'll find other customers.

And as I just said in the Vue forum as wails and gnashing of teeth have begun with E-on being acquired by Bentley Systems, let us add chaecuna's and a few others death bells to Poser's demise, which has ringing across the valleys since P5...6...7...8...9...10....and continues as P11/Pro-2016 heads for the finish line..... Nuff said there.

As for the topic of the thread.... Mesh never expires. It's a resource, not a be all and end all, unless you are a modeler. That isn't the ground Poser is on. It fits into pipelines, and turns out acceptable figure animations much quicker than commissioning custom would get you. As long as there is the need for such, Poser has a home.

"As for the topic of the thread.... Mesh never expires. It's a resource, not a be all and end all, unless you are a modeler"

Ha!! Spoken Like a true Animator!! but Alas, my comrade, for many in the still render majority, having the latest version # of "vicky" seems to hold some bizarre importance for their "web gallery" uploads. and there is always the matter of having the latest content etc. as well.

I was actually in the thread where stonemason made his official proclaimation He does still release his products as UV mapped .obj files though. and DAZ studio has an excellent obj exporter with texture collecting features
so as a User of C4D, with a third partyprofessional .obj/MDD Data handler, I still have access to Stephans products. In fact I just added his awesome new "NWX section18" set to my current sci fi film project.

Technically one can do the same with poser but there is a one time tedious manual application of textures after import.

perhaps another feature to request for poser ..an improved .obj importer.

chaecuna posted at 8:48AM Wed, 21 October 2015 - #4234496

Photoshop is not comparable to Poser. The only requirement to fully use Photoshop is a good eye-hand coordination; to fully use Poser you have to master modeling/UV mapping (in a different application(s)), master creating shaders in Poser and, if we are talking about humanoid figures, rigging in Poser. The complexity and variety of tasks required is significant and therefore the vast majority of Poser users will inevitably be buyers or at most kitbashers of content, who critically rely upon 3rd party products.

Poser (or DAZ Studio or Vue or Unity3D or Unreal Engine or iClone or whatever similar application) without content is like a fish without water, i.e. dead. Smith Micro should have had this very clear in their minds back in 2011: they had to decide whether to follow DAZ, licensing their tech or immediately and seriously nurture of a DAZ-indipendent content ecosystem. They did nothing like that (maybe following the myopic rants of the we-dont-need-no-stinkin-content crowd) and now we are seeing the inevitable outcome of that fatal mistake.

That was my precisely point -- to answer the statement that SM is a software company. Photoshop is an example of software that thrives without pre-made content for it. Poser is not.

false1 -- That's how I see it too. Poser may still stick around fairly happily, though perhaps without the same large army of people dedicated to extending its usefulness with scripts and so on. But, as I said, I'm not that optimistic about third party Poser content.

ssgbryan -- "There is no one in the DS world that is an equivalent to the folks we have in the Poserverse forums - there are no BagginBills, Nerd-3d, Snarrly-gribbly, extending out DS the way they have."

This is the greatest strength of Poser and the Poser community. It drives me nuts to ask a question about how to do something that should be simple in DS and be answered with a link to a product.

What I always liked best about Poser is that you had a choice about how you used it: if you wanted to buy pre-made solutions without ever lifting the hood, as it were, you could. But if you preferred to DIY, that has always been an option. Or you could do some combination: buy some things, do some things yourself.... For all its faults, the Poser community has never been stingy with information about how to get the most out of the software. And, when you think about it, the sheer number and quality of the free python utilities is stunning.

Wolf -- If you use FBX export from DS, the textures will come attached, and the scaling and positioning of the props is correct. I did this with Stefans Old London set, and it was a helluva lot easier than importing each and every obj. I found that a couple of the props had two or three messed up polys. So the export process is far from perfect. But with the obj's available, I can use a script to extract the exported geometry from the saved PP2 and replace it with the obj. Or make an MC6 from the FBX prop, import the obj, scale and position it with the FBX prop as a guide, and apply the material I saved. So those few odd polys are quite fixable. I estimate a time usage of about 30 minutes to get a fully functional set like Old London working perfectly in Poser. It's added work, to be sure. But for some vendors' creations, I think worth it.

Edit: But I can't help feeling the sharp sting of irony. How many times have Poser users complained about having to "jump through hoops" to get Daz content to work for them? Oh, my. Better start stretching. The hoops we may have to jump through from now on will be high and narrow and numerous.

Hi, I always model in wings3d, character or other 3d models. My last character,the second version of adman, I am working in it now,was modelled in wings3d too. For box modelling is the best tool out there and free ;)

About DSON, I don't think it was the first idea from DAZ, I think it was a "quick and dirty" solution so people can use Genesis in some way in Poser, and I think it is because they thought that people "run" to use Genesis in DS, and forgot many People love DAZ characters but love even more Poser.

Anyway, I don't think we have to leave any figure, all 4 generation of DAZ3d figures are great today , yes, Genesis could be better, but we can create great art with them , there is another great figures out there, Apollo, although is older, is still a great figure yet, and many more. Genesis is great for sure, but DSON isn't.

Sometimes I think we forget that figures are only a tool to make our art, no the target itself.

wolf359 posted at 2:09PM Wed, 21 October 2015 - #4234562

"As for the topic of the thread.... Mesh never expires. It's a resource, not a be all and end all, unless you are a modeler"

Ha!! Spoken Like a true Animator!! but Alas, my comrade, for many in the still render majority, having the latest version # of "vicky" seems to hold some bizarre importance for their "web gallery" uploads. and there is always the matter of having the latest content etc. as well.

I was actually in the thread where stonemason made his official proclaimation He does still release his products as UV mapped .obj files though. and DAZ studio has an excellent obj exporter with texture collecting features
so as a User of C4D, with a third partyprofessional .obj/MDD Data handler, I still have access to Stephans products. In fact I just added his awesome new "NWX section18" set to my current sci fi film project.

Technically one can do the same with poser but there is a one time tedious manual application of textures after import.

perhaps another feature to request for poser ..an improved .obj importer.

Thank you very much, sir! I don't think the ones asking for muscle armatures quite get that they have to sim an animation to get the look right either. But maybe one day, the switch will click and the masses will realize you can not be Dr Frankenstein unless your monster actually lives and moves....

Yeah, the .obj handler could use some help. But... applying textures? By HAND? Aaaaaaagh! ....as if I haven't done that 592,677 times in the past as it is..... Tedious, but not a real technical challenge, is it? Plus it gives you the chance to tuck your own custom shaders in there.

A really robust FBX/MDD import/export addition would be heavenly, though....

adh3d posted at 6:11PM Wed, 21 October 2015 - #4234591

Hi, I always model in wings3d, character or other 3d models. My last character,the second version of adman, I am working in it now,was modelled in wings3d too. For box modelling is the best tool out there and free ;)

About DSON, I don't think it was the first idea from DAZ, I think it was a "quick and dirty" solution so people can use Genesis in some way in Poser, and I think it is because they thought that people "run" to use Genesis in DS, and forgot many People love DAZ characters but love even more Poser.

Anyway, I don't think we have to leave any figure, all 4 generation of DAZ3d figures are great today , yes, Genesis could be better, but we can create great art with them , there is another great figures out there, Apollo, although is older, is still a great figure yet, and many more. Genesis is great for sure, but DSON isn't.

Sometimes I think we forget that figures are only a tool to make our art, no the target itself.

it originally went DAZ genesis needed genesis code that Poser did not have. DAZ offered to put the code in Poser. Poser said no.

then came DSON

import export ,to heck with all that .Poser alt to team up with DAZ .let DAZ put there genesis code in Poser and be done with it.

All problems solved

You have to understand taht , since DAZ3d create Daz Studio, DAZ3d is not only a content creator, is a software competitor for SM, so, how can SM let their competitor include a part of software in Poser, it had been a suicide.

I have to add that if DAZ3d had wanted to make a figure compatible with Poser, the could do that just making two versions, genesis for DS and, we can say , V5 for Poser, using Poser weight mapping, but Daz take a way, and it is their own way, create content for their own software.

Two native versions was NOT an option. Content creators would say to hell with that. Dson made it easy to port content over to Poser. For years in most cases content was Poser only or Daz only. Dson's aim was to eliminate that. Go look at Hivewire the hoops people have to go through to support a native Dawn and Poser version. Hell, they are still waiting for a Poser version of Axel. With Dson, it was a godsend for duel support. But because it could not be implemented properly in Poser, Dson sales suffered and eventually people dropped support all together. So support Native Poser and Native Studio? LOL, no thanks. That's nearly twice the work and most developers these days will just walk away. The apps today are way too different to support two native formats. Some form of emulation has to be present, or you will get support for either or, but rarely both platforms. But the decision not to implemented Dson was made, and Daz has moved on, and so should we.

Also Daz's code would not affect Poser, it would be an additional option, just like adding a new PBR. However, SM opted for the cheaper option when Hivewire announced Dawn & Dusk and jumped on them for support and told Daz to shove Dson where the sun doesn't shine, because adding Dson code would mean some additional effort. Guess SM fell for Hivewires BS hype as well. So there you have it. Instead of proper Genesis implementation, SM banked on Hivewire. In my opinion, a risky business decision putting your hopes on a new site that hasn't proved itself.

So...If you want content support for Poser, don't really expect it coming from developers and vendors from Daz, you have to look elsewhere, because that ship has sailed. Granted, the Dson implementation decisions were made from the old management, and now the new Poser team has to try and steer the ship without it.