I am tired of seeing Prime everywhere. I am not Prime. I will never be Prime. I want to see regular sales and regular sales prices on the Marketplace Page. I have to click on anything to get the actual price. I do not care if my wishlist items are on Prime Sale. Why notify me? I am not Prime!

Just stop, please. :(

I've brought this up before especially the spam notices for sales that do not apply to me. Let's say they can't code the notices to go out separately for prime members and non prime from their wishlists but to NOT show the actual price and even sale price of an item and to just show the prime price in the Marketplace thumbnails is, frankly, misleading. From what I was told it will be remaining that way because the PTB are convinced they'll get more people to sign up for prime membership. I suspect the opposite will happen as it's practices like this that do not help create a favourable opinion of the site. Face it, you've caved in and changed so many other things that people (and logic) made you see as reasonable. Why are you just delaying the inevitable and driving people away?

I will never sign up for Prime.

Never.

So with that off of the table you now always show me the Prime price first, but when I click on the item (annoying) I get the sale price or even a full price. I then compare the two prices, and buy nothing. Good luck with that.

wholly agree - the more i'm whipped towards the well to drink the kool-aid, the less thirsty i become for the entire Rendo 'experience'.

i've never been a Prime member, never will be, and even were i remotely inclined, frankly, it is not even close to the 'value' it was before all these changes - quick number crunching tells you that in a matter of seconds...

after taking a hard look at an uber long list & culling away the majority of it earlier today, i've only a few things left that really interest me enough to buy at this point, and then i think i'll just be spending my money in other places as my wishlists on other sites have grown exponentially to the dwindling one here...

I basically agree with what's been said here. I guess I'm going to have to be more active on the forums as I don't want "Rendo" thinking these are just a couple customers compared to the mass. Well it's not. Many say nothing at all and just leave or try to deal with it best they can. Maybe they don't know how to make their voice heard or think it will not matter in the end. After my long absence from Rendo, I've spent more than $200 over the last couple of months and that's about to stop all together. There are so many things that need attention on Rendo that everything that it use to be is no longer and "snarky" comments from staff that I've seen in forum posts doesn't help the matter. So here is my list. Prime issues as stated as above

Nudity Flags - it's all or nothing and redo has taken that control from me because now I get to see gratuitous genital shots in thumbnails and if I did turn on the nudity filter, well that just eliminates 90 percent of the art here. Artistic nudity is great and I'm not opposed to it, but vagina shots...well you get my gist.

Community - Where has this gone? If I comment on someone's piece of art and the artist responds, i get NO notification. So unless I remember the artist and try to find that image again, I have no idea what they said so I can respond appropriately. What's the point of even thanking people for their comments if they are never notified. To me this vastly takes about what Rendo is suppose to be about....connection, community...communication. Also I'd like to be notified who favorites or likes my image that way I can thank them personally. It's more engaging that way.

Options to enable or disable comments - simply said

There are of course other things that are minor annoyances but I'll stop there and hope that Rendo helps bring it back to it's glory. As many others have stated, it's making me consider going elsewhere with not only my artwork, but even purchases here at Rendo and vacating altogether. Not that I want to, I'm waiting....patiently.

I'm annoyed with it too. I'm wondering if this is a new permanent policy by Rendo. They used to have so many great sales, and now the sales suck for non-prime members. I, likewise, will never be prime.

there are great bargains to be had in the Prime sector. been a member since it started and now being much less ($29.99) it is even more a bargain. the products in Prime are quality created . never bought anything in Prime that I was unhappy with

Well, I don't have enough customer confidence in Rendo to buy prime, not with the hacking awhile back, statements by people with excellent antivirus proigrams that Rendo (unlike Daz, RDNA, or Hivewire) registered as an "unsecure" site by their antivirus programs, and this incredibly broken redesigns. Not to mention it's expensive.
Even today it's ridiculous,. Where have the 50% off sales for all members gone? Black Friday should be an equal day for all customers, not another prime perks one. This whole thing has caused me to buy a lot less here-- Last thing I bought was 2 months ago, and only because it was something I really wanted-- other than that, I haven't purchased anything since the retired item sale. I've always bought primarily from DAZ (since they have the best sales, plus PC is a complete steal.), but I usually buy some stuff once every month or two (or sometimes multiple times a month) from RDNA. Renderosity, very rarely, due to these ridiculous Prime only sales and the disappearance of the good sales we used to see (hell, for a couple years Sveva would run a 70% off sale several times a year) If Renderosity keeps this up, then they probably won't get more than 50~60 bucks from me per year-- the amount that I used to spend here every 1~3 months (sometimes even more than that-- never quite reached 100 bucks though)

IceEmpress posted at 5:09AM Fri, 27 November 2015 - #4241139

Well, I don't have enough customer confidence in Rendo to buy prime, not with the hacking awhile back, statements by people with excellent antivirus proigrams that Rendo (unlike Daz, RDNA, or Hivewire) registered as an "unsecure" site by their antivirus programs, and this incredibly broken redesigns. Not to mention it's expensive.
Even today it's ridiculous,. Where have the 50% off sales for all members gone? Black Friday should be an equal day for all customers, not another prime perks one. This whole thing has caused me to buy a lot less here-- Last thing I bought was 2 months ago, and only because it was something I really wanted-- other than that, I haven't purchased anything since the retired item sale. I've always bought primarily from DAZ (since they have the best sales, plus PC is a complete steal.), but I usually buy some stuff once every month or two (or sometimes multiple times a month) from RDNA. Renderosity, very rarely, due to these ridiculous Prime only sales and the disappearance of the good sales we used to see (hell, for a couple years Sveva would run a 70% off sale several times a year) If Renderosity keeps this up, then they probably won't get more than 50~60 bucks from me per year-- the amount that I used to spend here every 1~3 months (sometimes even more than that-- never quite reached 100 bucks though)

I can understand your reluctance to shop and the annoyance with what seems to be constant Prime sales but don't think all the Prime members are happy either. I am a Prime member and used to spend around $300 a month. September I spent less than $30 and October and November so far, a big fat zero. Truth is that Rendo screwed up the Prime membership big time and it now trying to make it better with more sales. Not sure about the rest but for me this is too little too late.

As to the rest of the site, well I was so thrilled I deleted my whole gallery which had taken tens years to build and, for the most part, I am in lurk mode on the forums. Then again I only ever posted in three forums the main one being the Poser forum and there even the trolls have given up.

Sorry Rendo but if you really were a dog (and as a site you are) I would have you put down.

How did they mess up Prime? Did it have to do with the site redesign? (seems like I remember something about that) Or did they remove some of the benefits?

IceEmpress posted at 9:36AM Fri, 27 November 2015 - #4241151

How did they mess up Prime? Did it have to do with the site redesign? (seems like I remember something about that) Or did they remove some of the benefits?

I think some of us felt the removed all of the benefits. They dropped the price to $29.99 from so say $99.99 but I doubt anyone ever paid more then $49.99, I never did, and for that you got a 30% or so voucher with a few random voucher every month and all the prime products were $3.50. What they did not say was that was all about the to change but the price drop was around anniversary time so a lot of people renewed their membership. Then the members found out that the $3.50 price was not longer across the board and vendors were allowed to increase their prices, which many did as Rendo was now going to take a cut of that price something they did not do before. Some prices almost doubled while other vendors kept them at $3.50, still more increased them only to drop them back to $3.50 when the **** hit the fan.

The large voucher every month changed to a more random smaller affair but they promised a free product each month. Towards the end of the first month the first freebie was released and that was for Genesis so lots of those members using Poser were not happy and even the Daz users needed a few purchases from Daz for it to be useful. In fairness even the Daz user jumped in and said the selection of that product was wrong. Later freebies (as Rendo like to call them) were found be old products that had been on sale and lot already had, To add insult to injury it was then discovered the product were being gifted by the vendor, so Rendo was taking the money for this 'freebie' from the membership and it was costing them nothing.

Final insult was that, when Prime members complained they were usually treated with contempt and Rendo tried to put the blame on the vendors. End result was though many, like me, stopped spending here or drastically reduced their spending and still more emptied their wish lists of Prime items. Other Prime members noted which vendors put their prices up the most and then built 'black lists' of vendors that they would not buy from. Prime or otherwise.

Most of all this was played out in semi-secret as the Prime members forum was used to vent a great deal of anger. Which is why I fully understand that non Prime members must be fed up with Prime sale as Rendo has a lot of ground to make up. Despite that I suspect that many will not continue with Prime when their membership runs out.

All of this happened at the same time as the site changes so the Prime debacle was just another aggravation. Then there was the advertising in the galleries that overwhelmed the uploaded image and I was not alone in deleting my entire gallery. For this and many other reasons many of the people that used to come here have just left Rendo completely and moved to other forums. Sadly a small number found all of the changes to the site and the endless trolling in the Poser forum to be the last straw and the hobby did not give them the pleasure anymore and gave up 3D art entirely. That may be extreme but the one underlying theme is that Rendo is not a nice place to be anymore

That was a good summary of the Great Prime Dispute there Hornet and I agree. As a matter of fact my prime membership expired today. It is no longer the benefit it once was. To quote the raven. Never more.

Wow, great summary. You left out that initially some prime prices were higher than sale prices. Not sure if that was a bug, vendor silliness, etc.

What's this about a hacking incident?

argel1200 posted at 4:35PM Sun, 29 November 2015 - #4241440

Wow, great summary. You left out that initially some prime prices were higher than sale prices. Not sure if that was a bug, vendor silliness, etc.

What's this about a hacking incident?

A number of people had their details and credit card information stolen. At first Rendo denied it was them as they do not store credit card information. I was skeptical at first but continued to order from Rendo and two of my cards were used fraudulently, one card a second time after it had been re-issued. By then it was clear that Rendo was indeed the source of the breach and they were forced to make a statement admitting the breach. They did not give details, which was understandable, but reading through the lines it a appears someone was passing order information to an 'unauthorised third party' . As such it was not a hack as such but it was a breach that cause a small numbers of customers a great deal of problems. My credit card company was very good about it and for me it was just a hassle but I think some may have lost money.

All of this was at the start of the year and the security was beefed up but I can well understand why customers were uneasy about shopping here. In Rendo's, defense though, the changes have made it almost impossible to spend money here hence the problem is largely solved.

I was in on that problem as well I believe. Someone ran me into the negitive. Luckily i caught it pretty quick. While my bank stopped pay and changed card numbers and made it all go away I still spent close to a week with no acct access. Couple weeks or so after the problem I got notification of the hack. Interesting to learn it was an inside job rather than electronic.

Their claim was that it was electronic, though, and that it occurred IIRC during the checkout processing which normally does not occur, in addition, there were a couple of points where they took a break for a week or so before stealing the info again. That was Rendo's claim, anyway.

I saw very, very few vendors who sold all their prime items at 3.50, though I did see quite a few who sold at least some of their backlog at that price.

The hacking was remedied at like the end of February or the beginning of March (can't recall which) and I think started at the beginning of January. Then you had that site redesign at... what was it, the beginning of the summer, or the end of spring?
In addition to that, you had another disastrous site redesign a year earlier. Rendo's claim is that the latest site design was necessary in order to not be taken off of Google's search results (Google passed a requirement that sites have to be 100% mobile compliant/accessible) And indeed, Google did just that. So now their search engine sucks a lot more than it used to, though it still brings up more hits and more accurate hits than Bing-- and their image gallery isn't nearly as slow or intrusive with the carousels (try as I might, I am unable to block element those things out of existence-- the carousel is gone, but there is a black void where it was that still separates the search hits. The other search engines just aren't remotely as good.) At least I found an add-on that blocks Google Books from the hit results...

Of course, the problem is that the side redesign is still broken even if you are a mobile user.

IceEmpress posted at 10:37AM Mon, 30 November 2015 - #4241527

Their claim was that it was electronic, though, and that it occurred IIRC during the checkout processing which normally does not occur, in addition, there were a couple of points where they took a break for a week or so before stealing the info again. That was Rendo's claim, anyway.

I saw very, very few vendors who sold all their prime items at 3.50, though I did see quite a few who sold at least some of their backlog at that price.

The hacking was remedied at like the end of February or the beginning of March (can't recall which) and I think started at the beginning of January. Then you had that site redesign at... what was it, the beginning of the summer, or the end of spring?
In addition to that, you had another disastrous site redesign a year earlier. Rendo's claim is that the latest site design was necessary in order to not be taken off of Google's search results (Google passed a requirement that sites have to be 100% mobile compliant/accessible) And indeed, Google did just that. So now their search engine sucks a lot more than it used to, though it still brings up more hits and more accurate hits than Bing-- and their image gallery isn't nearly as slow or intrusive with the carousels (try as I might, I am unable to block element those things out of existence-- the carousel is gone, but there is a black void where it was that still separates the search hits. The other search engines just aren't remotely as good.) At least I found an add-on that blocks Google Books from the hit results...

Of course, the problem is that the side redesign is still broken even if you are a mobile user.

I have no figures but I do wonder how many mobile user are actually paying for content when using their mobile. Being in the top few selections of a search engine is great as long as you are not losing customers hand over fist because they can no longer use the store.

Rendo are also fast to blame others, such as the Prime debacle was all the vendors fault when it was in fact purely down the Rendo's greed.

Finally Google has nothing to do with the hacking, the contempt Rendo showed/shows it's customers, the almost total lack of moderation in the Poser forum or the massive adverts that plagued the Galleries (which may have been corrected, I don't know I never go there now). Due to the store redesign (was it actually designed) some of the people that closed their accounts may have been due to changes required by Google but at lot had much more to do with Rendo's behavior.

Finally Google has nothing to do with the hacking I never said that it did. I was bringing up an entirely separate incident which occurred just months prior to the disastrous redesign, which fanned the flames.

the contempt Rendo showed/shows it's customers, Though nowhere near as bad, the saccharine enthusiasm and positiveness during redesigns as the walls fall down all around them and even in indirect response to customer complaints.

The admins come across as Bagdhad Bob with Floe's (the annoying insurance chick) personality and sunny disposition.
As bad as some of the admins act at times, however, the programmers are far worse. Remember how, during 2 redesigns ago, the "On sale" text was light grey? Remember how everyone complained incessantly about it, and Kristi (I think it was her) kept bouncing it on the programmer or the site owner (can't remember which), who obstinately refused to change it because light grey was his personal preference or something (I specifically remember Kristi or whoever the admin in contact with him even being frustrated that he wouldn't change it). He was finally convinced to change it to red two weeks later.

IceEmpress posted at 8:46AM Tue, 01 December 2015 - #4241694

Finally Google has nothing to do with the hacking I never said that it did. I was bringing up an entirely separate incident which occurred just months prior to the disastrous redesign, which fanned the flames.

the contempt Rendo showed/shows it's customers, Though nowhere near as bad, the saccharine enthusiasm and positiveness during redesigns as the walls fall down all around them and even in indirect response to customer complaints.

The admins come across as Bagdhad Bob with Floe's (the annoying insurance chick) personality and sunny disposition.
As bad as some of the admins act at times, however, the programmers are far worse. Remember how, during 2 redesigns ago, the "On sale" text was light grey? Remember how everyone complained incessantly about it, and Kristi (I think it was her) kept bouncing it on the programmer or the site owner (can't remember which), who obstinately refused to change it because light grey was his personal preference or something (I specifically remember Kristi or whoever the admin in contact with him even being frustrated that he wouldn't change it). He was finally convinced to change it to red two weeks later.

My apologies, I did not mean to imply that you suggested that the Google change had anything to do with the hacking. Neither did I want to suggest that you were wrong in anything you said, what I was trying to do was widen the subject and highlight that Rendo are very quick to blame others for their failure. You are perfectly correct in what you say and the disastrous redesign did well and truly fan the flames.

They are not going to admit it but these changes will have hit them were it hurts, in the pocket. Even if the sales have remained strong, which I very much doubt, they have lost out on earning potential, $300 a month in my case and if the forums are to be believed, I am not alone. Still their loss is Daz3D, Hivewire3D and RDNA's gain.

Hornet did a very good summary.

Things aren't as rosy for Prime members as they might seem to non-members. We lost our guaranteed $3.50 pricing and back catalogue. Had Rendo kept the back catalogue pricing intact, I believe the anger would have been substantially less. Some vendors reverted SOME of their prices (which we are grateful), but not all of their prices.

For awhile, some sale prices were lower than Prime prices.

Now we have quite a few sales at 50% off, but when you consider that we used to get an influx of Prime Classics for $3.50 that would run for a full month (rather than just a day or 2) even that doesn't seem like much of a bargain.

I went to the "Other Guys" and yesterday they had EVERYTHINg going for at LEAST 50% off, some stuff was deeper discounted. Here at Rendo, some of the stuff I wanted was on sale (10-20%) so the coupon was no good.

Prime is not the value it once was.

PS I got hurt in the site hack too! My account got cleaned out!

My understanding is that Renderosity's and Renderosity Vendor's cash cow of V4 was on the decline and there was nothing new coming out of Smith Micro and Poser that was creating the major crossover that V4 had. Deep sales on V4 were great for customers, and 3.50 Prime was good for customers and vendors but was bringing in no revenue for Rendo for all its management overhead. By going to V6 and Gn characters they would not interest a Poser based clientele.

So they had to try something.

I like Hornet's summary. But where do things need to go from here? Does anybody out there have any thoughts?

One of my beefs, not a direction, is that they seem to have vertically oriented the screen so that no matter how big my laptop or station screen I never see a whole image. I spend so much time mouse scrolling just trying to see properly what they are selling it is ridiculous. I think they should determine where their customer base buys from and hold off on catering to the mobile fad a bit. Sales will eventually come from there but my feeling is that they are killing their core business by catering too early and too heavily to a future business that is not ready for them. If I'm wrong on this, it is a major change and I'd like to be contradicted.

I believe 3D Graphics needs High Horsepower. Tablets and smartphones cater to low horsepower.

If someone is buying on a smartphone or tablet, the implication is that there still has to be a more powerful machine lurking somewhere, and that tablet is an addition not a substitution for where the real activity occurs.

One possible suggestion is that Renderosity step in and fund a crossover project that makes the Gn characters work properly and easily on Poser. Add in one person from Daz and one from Smith Micro to work on the team.

I believe a successful project would benefit all three companies and the 3D graphics community.

A long term view of such a team would be to have it funded equally by all three companies - (or a consortium of more - like Cablelabs for TV) and work in the direction of a universal character that could take in full body scans of real people so that vendors can in the long run design clothing and adornments that can be made for sale to a larger public.

consumer573 posted at 2:55PM Sun, 06 December 2015 - #4242805

One possible suggestion is that Renderosity step in and fund a crossover project that makes the Gn characters work properly and easily on Poser. Add in one person from Daz and one from Smith Micro to work on the team.

I believe a successful project would benefit all three companies and the 3D graphics community.

A long term view of such a team would be to have it funded equally by all three companies - (or a consortium of more - like Cablelabs for TV) and work in the direction of a universal character that could take in full body scans of real people so that vendors can in the long run design clothing and adornments that can be made for sale to a larger public.

I am not sure on the suggestions but I do agree Rendo need to do something and the longer they delay the worse it will get. People are reducing their spending or not spending at all. Others have closed their accounts while many stay but run in lurk mode. Forums are quiet for a number of reasons and some people have deleted their galleries, again for differing reasons. The end result is that less people appear to be visiting the site and those that continue do so, do so on a reduced basis. When people don't visit they don't spend and the downhill spiral continues.

Where's the effin marketplace search field gone, used to be next to the JOIN PRIME button, Want to know how I had to find what I was looking for, well I will tell you, I had to GOOGLE it, ROFLMAO, Honestly!!! I had to find a picture of what I was looking for on google click on the image link to get to the product in the marketplace. Not good business if your a vendor, someone needs some harsh words said. Come on Rendo Staff you are really screwing up what used to be one of the best places on the WWW

consumer573 posted at 4:23PM Sun, 06 December 2015 - #4242799

My understanding is that Renderosity's and Renderosity Vendor's cash cow of V4 was on the decline and there was nothing new coming out of Smith Micro and Poser that was creating the major crossover that V4 had. Deep sales on V4 were great for customers, and 3.50 Prime was good for customers and vendors but was bringing in no revenue for Rendo for all its management overhead. By going to V6 and Gn characters they would not interest a Poser based clientele.

So they had to try something.

I like Hornet's summary. But where do things need to go from here? Does anybody out there have any thoughts?

Well, one suggestion would be to try to get vendors to focus on buildings and vehicles and props in the OBJ format. These play nicely (often) in a multitude of software (Daz, Poser, Carrara, etc) and better models have a VERY long shelf life.

As far as sales being good for customers and vendors, but not for Rendo is not accurate. Rendo might not have been making as much as they wanted, but they DO get a piece of most of the money coming in. They didn't get much off of Prime products themselves, BUT the monthly coupon was never good for Prime items and members most certainly used that coupon and some of that went into Rendo's pocket.

This site has really gone down the crapper.

Received the email this morning Gift of Savings 3...only to find the only savings are for Prime! Please Rendo I'm not interested in Prime Sales even if they're under the guise of Gift of Savings.

@ Cimarron

hey there!! hoping you're doing well. just fyi, i think it's a bit confusing, but if you're like me and not Prime, the savings on the 'Prime Flash' items still work for us, too - the only difference is that as non-Prime folks, instead of getting 50% off those items, we only get 40%. you prolly already know that, but just in case, i thought i'd say something.

Thanks Giana, but for example, I'm looking at a product and the Prime price is what once upon a time was available to all customers during a sale and the everyday customer sale price is roughly the normal price. Rendo used to have great sales and discounts for everyone, now it seems to be only for Prime members.

Cimarron posted at 9:30AM Fri, 11 December 2015 - #4243647

Thanks Giana, but for example, I'm looking at a product and the Prime price is what once upon a time was available to all customers during a sale and the everyday customer sale price is roughly the normal price. Rendo used to have great sales and discounts for everyone, now it seems to be only for Prime members.

That's the hole that Rendo dug for themselves, they upset the Prime membership with the changes that were badly communicated and unless they make changes Prime membership will fall overall. Yet, if they are not careful, by trying to get Prime/ex Prime members back on side they will upset the rest of the customer base. The whole reason for the change was to make more profit, but I doubt that they are, and while massive sales might help the number of orders it could cut profits even further.

For there to be a balance between making profits and giving customers a good deal you need to know your market and clearly Rendo doesn't.

auh, i see what you're saying. until fairly recently, i wasn't truly online for about 7-8 years, only occasionally posting from a public PC, but never buying anything, so i'm a tad ignorant about what has transpired before now. however, just quick number crunching told me that Prime is not a good deal at all. it also took me a while to understand all the various ways the MP forces vendors to price things, which coupons work, blahblah. i've since given up, for the most part, purchasing from this site due to things surrounding pricing and the poor search engine in the MP. it's disheartening to continuously read how unhappy folks have become regarding this site as a whole since the changes - i can relate to so much of it... sigh...

the thing with Prime is that i feel as if TPTB are trying to manipulate me into joining through various triggers, and the more i feel that way, the harder i dig in my heels in opposition as i value the feeling of freewill far more than i do money, or saving it...

Giana posted at 7:21PM Fri, 11 December 2015 - #4243778

auh, i see what you're saying. until fairly recently, i wasn't truly online for about 7-8 years, only occasionally posting from a public PC, but never buying anything, so i'm a tad ignorant about what has transpired before now. however, just quick number crunching told me that Prime is not a good deal at all. it also took me a while to understand all the various ways the MP forces vendors to price things, which coupons work, blahblah. i've since given up, for the most part, purchasing from this site due to things surrounding pricing and the poor search engine in the MP. it's disheartening to continuously read how unhappy folks have become regarding this site as a whole since the changes - i can relate to so much of it... sigh...

the thing with Prime is that i feel as if TPTB are trying to manipulate me into joining through various triggers, and the more i feel that way, the harder i dig in my heels in opposition as i value the feeling of freewill far more than i do money, or saving it...

You hit the nail on the head, Prime is not a good deal at all, but it used to be before the changes. It also changed at a time when Rendo did all the changes to the site and we all know how well that went. Most people who were unhappy have got over it and moved on to other sites taking their spending with them, which could be why Rendo is spinning in ever decreasing circles chasing customers.

Agreed. I haven't purchased anything from here in quite a while, in part because the deals that used to exist for non-Prime members don't exist anymore, and in part because of Rendo's incessant attempts to drive me toward buying into Prime. Then, of course, there are the constant "upgrades" to the site that take away or hide key features, or are so riddled with bugs that they're more or less unusable.

9 times out of 10 I don't even bother opening emails from Rendo anymore, because I know that they're going to be nothing but ads for sales exclusive to Prime members, that they apparently feel compelled to send me in an effort to make me buy into it. I'm already debating letting my PC+ membership lapse due to DAZ's decision to add DRM to its products in the future, and all of Rendo's badgering and the decrease in value has certainly ensured that I won't be purchasing a Prime membership to replace it.

i bought a three month subscription to the Platinum thingy over there back in Septembre, a thing i hadn't done since gosh, i guess the first year that DAZ dreamed it up, and i'm pretty much caught up on everything i could possibly want/need for the next decade or so, so i'm already planning to let that lapse, but, uh, colour me all sorts of ignorant, but what is DRM?

Giana posted at 5:39PM Sat, 12 December 2015 - #4243884

i bought a three month subscription to the Platinum thingy over there back in Septembre, a thing i hadn't done since gosh, i guess the first year that DAZ dreamed it up, and i'm pretty much caught up on everything i could possibly want/need for the next decade or so, so i'm already planning to let that lapse, but, uh, colour me all sorts of ignorant, but what is DRM?

Digital Rights Management, in other words some of the new stuff purchased in the Daz store will only be able to be used in Daz Studio. I bit like buying a movie for download that you can only play on a registered device that you own such as a computer, tablet or Smart TV.

Giana posted at 1:32PM Sat, 12 December 2015 - #4243884

i bought a three month subscription to the Platinum thingy over there back in Septembre, a thing i hadn't done since gosh, i guess the first year that DAZ dreamed it up, and i'm pretty much caught up on everything i could possibly want/need for the next decade or so, so i'm already planning to let that lapse, but, uh, colour me all sorts of ignorant, but what is DRM?

Exactly what Hornet said.

Remember back when Apple first started up iTunes and all of the music was encrypted in such a way that you couldn't use it on any portable music player other than an iPod (FairPlay)? Remember how everyone HATED it and did everything they could to strip it out of the files? It's like that. Apple eventually dropped the DRM model, but then they expected you to pay to acquire DRM-free copies of music that you had already paid for.

As I understand it, the current Daz model is that Connect-only content will only be usable in Daz Studio, which means they're alienating their Poser user base, although they already started doing that when they went over to the Genesis platform and stopped creating Poser-native content like everything through Gen4 was. Connect-only content will also require an active internet connection in order to verify via a user-specific key. They say this will only need to be done once. It also makes it so that you cannot create any directory structure for your files other than the one that they want you to use; trying to move things around will cause them to break within the program.

I think storage is also going to be cloud-based, so I'm not sure whether people will even be able to back up a copy of the installation file in the event that Daz goes belly up. Someone please feel free to clarify this, because it worries me.

Basically it's a horrible idea that is going to exclude a large number of people from using Daz's content, either because they use Poser, or because they have objections to not having full ownership of and control over their purchased content.

To tie it all back into the spirit of this thread, Daz's move to DRM is particularly problematic in light of Rendo's aggressive pushing of the Prime program that makes what was a reliable source of new, non-Genesis, Poser-native content much less accessible, since Prime itself isn't a great value and if you don't have it, you can forget about being able to participate in any decent sale events. It also makes buying new, G-series content that's not encumbered with Connect DRM much less accessible, for the same reasons -- decrease in value of Prime, and no good sales if you haven't bought in.

ta to you both for the clarity, [i] found it all to be rather informative. i'm stuck back in the age of ice, using outdated software on old outdated hardware, using V4 [whom some would say is also outdated], but in all honesty, for the most part, i'm super okay with all of it. there's not much left on this site, or Daz, or Runtime, to entice - i.e. i came, i saw, i bought, i'm done. and it sounds like in many ways i came back at a fair opportune time as well, since i do not use DS nor have a version of Poser that supports DSON... for if judging by new releases, things are moving towards things i've no interest to partake in; however, even the deals i've found o'er the last few months for V4 will potentially be even better the closer the masses relegate her to the attic/basement [tho' i doubt she'll ever fully die a true death], and clearance sales abound. as of today, there are but 7 items across all three sites that i have my eyes upon, all of which are easily left behind.

and to bring this, once again, back to the topic at hand, had Rendo had a similar set-up to Daz in terms of being able to purchase various blocks of time for Prime instead of having only a one year commitment option, or a 'trial' type offer/option, i might've honestly considered it whenst i came back a few months ago - i wouldn't now, but back then, i was, once again, almost virginal to the ins/outs of the MP here and other site's marketing presentations, ploys, patterns & philosophies... must say, i lost that cherry rather quickly tho... [snort]

i'd probably be willing, or even wanting, more things from here, even without decent sales pricing, except for the fact that i feel frustrated by so much about this place, and in particular with shopping here. i mean i did come back prior to the whole destruction of this site, so my opine is not being influenced or swayed by merely taking others' voiced concerns and displeasures.

sure there are places where you choose to buy a membership [i'm talking retail, like Costco or Sam's], but one does so -because- the benefits are overly rewarding, so i'm taking that kind of modeling into consideration to a degree. imagine if suddenly it was only $15 to join Costco, as opposed to the $75 it is, or was a couple of years ago. you'd think 'wow!! holy cripes, batman', and you'd shell out that money. but then you go to shop only to discover that you're only getting maybe 30% off what you'd spend at a regular grocery, or other retailer. you might think, 'well, ok, but yanno what, i have those coupons i clipped out of the paper the other day, and that can go towards making up the disparity', except you go to the register and are told that, gosh, Costco won't take your coupon[s]. and at that point, those BOGO deals at your local grocery/retailer are starting to look better than you thought initially, but still not quite as good as Costco's 30%. but Costco is predominately a buy-in-bulk kind of place, and not really for impulse shoppers, which, let's face, much of this 3D stuff is geared towards. with that in mind, you get better deals from a retailer offering a BOGO than at Costco, and the better deal comes from joining Costco whenst buying only investment kinds of things, for example, an awesome audio set-up or a television. there's not terribly much in this 3D world that equates aside from software and maybe utilities like scripts or maybe ?lighting? [if you can't make your own], etc.

quick number crunching tells you that Prime is no longer the value it once was...

i don't recall the exact price it used to be, so i'll just opt for $90 bucks a year, and all Prime was $3.50 each.

so i pay my $90, and let's say over the next three months i bought 10 items, so now i'm all in at $125. i buy 10 more items over another 3 months, so now i'm up to $160.

today, if i bought Prime, i spend $30, and over the course of three months i buy 10 items that now average what? $8? maybe it's lower, i don't know, but i'll just use $8. so for my first 3 months, i'm all in for $110. i buy 10 more items in the next three months, averaging $8, so now i'm up to $190. or lets change $8 into $6, so the total is less for 6 months than it used to be [$150], but add 20 more items for the rest of the year at $6 vs. $3.50 for the same items, and well...

extrapolate from there, and you see what i mean...

i'm just extremely tired of feeling like i am supposed to NEED Prime these days whenst numbers do not lie. i'm not denying that one can save money by joining, as that is misleading... again, i'll just repeat myself and say: the thing with Prime is that i feel as if TPTB are trying to manipulate me into joining through various triggers, and the more i feel that way, the harder i dig in my heels in opposition as i value the feeling of freewill far more than i do money, or the saving of it... [shrug]

Giana posted at 11:50AM Sun, 13 December 2015 - #4243922

ta to you both for the clarity, [i] found it all to be rather informative. i'm stuck back in the age of ice, using outdated software on old outdated hardware, using V4 [whom some would say is also outdated], but in all honesty, for the most part, i'm super okay with all of it. there's not much left on this site, or Daz, or Runtime, to entice - i.e. i came, i saw, i bought, i'm done. and it sounds like in many ways i came back at a fair opportune time as well, since i do not use DS nor have a version of Poser that supports DSON... for if judging by new releases, things are moving towards things i've no interest to partake in; however, even the deals i've found o'er the last few months for V4 will potentially be even better the closer the masses relegate her to the attic/basement [tho' i doubt she'll ever fully die a true death], and clearance sales abound. as of today, there are but 7 items across all three sites that i have my eyes upon, all of which are easily left behind.

and to bring this, once again, back to the topic at hand, had Rendo had a similar set-up to Daz in terms of being able to purchase various blocks of time for Prime instead of having only a one year commitment option, or a 'trial' type offer/option, i might've honestly considered it whenst i came back a few months ago - i wouldn't now, but back then, i was, once again, almost virginal to the ins/outs of the MP here and other site's marketing presentations, ploys, patterns & philosophies... must say, i lost that cherry rather quickly tho... [snort]

i'd probably be willing, or even wanting, more things from here, even without decent sales pricing, except for the fact that i feel frustrated by so much about this place, and in particular with shopping here. i mean i did come back prior to the whole destruction of this site, so my opine is not being influenced or swayed by merely taking others' voiced concerns and displeasures.

sure there are places where you choose to buy a membership [i'm talking retail, like Costco or Sam's], but one does so -because- the benefits are overly rewarding, so i'm taking that kind of modeling into consideration to a degree. imagine if suddenly it was only $15 to join Costco, as opposed to the $75 it is, or was a couple of years ago. you'd think 'wow!! holy cripes, batman', and you'd shell out that money. but then you go to shop only to discover that you're only getting maybe 30% off what you'd spend at a regular grocery, or other retailer. you might think, 'well, ok, but yanno what, i have those coupons i clipped out of the paper the other day, and that can go towards making up the disparity', except you go to the register and are told that, gosh, Costco won't take your coupon[s]. and at that point, those BOGO deals at your local grocery/retailer are starting to look better than you thought initially, but still not quite as good as Costco's 30%. but Costco is predominately a buy-in-bulk kind of place, and not really for impulse shoppers, which, let's face, much of this 3D stuff is geared towards. with that in mind, you get better deals from a retailer offering a BOGO than at Costco, and the better deal comes from joining Costco whenst buying only investment kinds of things, for example, an awesome audio set-up or a television. there's not terribly much in this 3D world that equates aside from software and maybe utilities like scripts or maybe ?lighting? [if you can't make your own], etc.

quick number crunching tells you that Prime is no longer the value it once was...

i don't recall the exact price it used to be, so i'll just opt for $90 bucks a year, and all Prime was $3.50 each.

so i pay my $90, and let's say over the next three months i bought 10 items, so now i'm all in at $125. i buy 10 more items over another 3 months, so now i'm up to $160.

today, if i bought Prime, i spend $30, and over the course of three months i buy 10 items that now average what? $8? maybe it's lower, i don't know, but i'll just use $8. so for my first 3 months, i'm all in for $110. i buy 10 more items in the next three months, averaging $8, so now i'm up to $190. or lets change $8 into $6, so the total is less for 6 months than it used to be [$150], but add 20 more items for the rest of the year at $6 vs. $3.50 for the same items, and well...

extrapolate from there, and you see what i mean...

i'm just extremely tired of feeling like i am supposed to NEED Prime these days whenst numbers do not lie. i'm not denying that one can save money by joining, as that is misleading... again, i'll just repeat myself and say: the thing with Prime is that i feel as if TPTB are trying to manipulate me into joining through various triggers, and the more i feel that way, the harder i dig in my heels in opposition as i value the feeling of freewill far more than i do money, or the saving of it... [shrug]

While the Prime was around the $90 mark (I think I remember it being $99) full price it was on a permanent sale and I don't think anyone paid more than $49.99, I certainly didn't. Which makes your argument all the more valid. The number of people who emptied their wishlist of Prime items after the change highlights just how poor the value now is.

If that was not bad enough trying to buy anything here as been made very complex indeed, assuming that there is even something you want to buy. I still use V4 in the weight mapped version and more recently I have been using Dawn as well. I have more than enough clothes for V4 and, for Dawn, Hivewire3d have good prices and you do not need to pay to be a VIP, you earn points with every purchase that can be used to reduce the price on future purchases. Everyone wins and those that spend most earn the most points, simple and easy to understand.

I would say I don't understand Rendo's business strategy but I honestly don't think they have one. They want to make lots of money but don't seem to have the first clue on how to do it.

The end result is I spend most my money at Hivewire and occasionally at RDNA.

hornet3d posted at 4:05PM Mon, 14 December 2015 - #4243713

Cimarron posted at 9:30AM Fri, 11 December 2015 - #4243647

Thanks Giana, but for example, I'm looking at a product and the Prime price is what once upon a time was available to all customers during a sale and the everyday customer sale price is roughly the normal price. Rendo used to have great sales and discounts for everyone, now it seems to be only for Prime members.

That's the hole that Rendo dug for themselves, they upset the Prime membership with the changes that were badly communicated and unless they make changes Prime membership will fall overall. Yet, if they are not careful, by trying to get Prime/ex Prime members back on side they will upset the rest of the customer base. The whole reason for the change was to make more profit, but I doubt that they are, and while massive sales might help the number of orders it could cut profits even further.

For there to be a balance between making profits and giving customers a good deal you need to know your market and clearly Rendo doesn't.

Hornet3D and Giana, I love Rendo, for years it's been my 3D Candy Store.
I want Rendo to make money, be wildly successful and a place for all 3D and 2D Users to find products but they must address the glaring problems..... Loading...even on a good day it's slow , Search function...I usually search Google to find something on Rendo, it's quicker and more accurate. ...and sort out Prime, make it worthwhile for members but keep your loyal customers happy, they may not need Prime but are regular buyers, often they have been for years and they're your backbone.

@Cimarron

a few months ago, i felt the way you just expressed - truly emotionally invested, in a sense, into this site. i joined in April 2001, and aside from a few images, probably no more than 5, i've only ever posted here during all that time. most of all monies, whenst purchasing, were spent here in support of the larger picture, ie, the vendors, the site itself, etc., and though p'raps in reality untrue, i felt that i was at least a part of something, albeit i stood at the fringes, but still a part of it, and saw Rendo as my internet 'home' in many ways.

some of my reaction to the most recent site re-design i absolutely take responsibility for, even if the only reason those reactions came to be were solely based on circumstances beyond my control - i mean i certainly could've chosen differently how the re-design affected/infected me. at the same time, and even with the understanding that the changes are also out of the hands of the mods/admins, i watched, and experienced, how members were being interacted with by Staff, and i found the whole thing to be wanting in the end.

on top of that, shopping became even more cumbersome a task. and whilst i can let go of many of my frustrations and disappointments regarding the changes, and i can toss my hands up and accept the shortcomings of the staff, to ask me to jump through hoops just to spend my money is a bit much. furthermore, to continuously drive a marketing schematic down my throat almost at every turn, has me questioning my position on participating in a way [purchasing things] in support of such a place. i know that i no longer feel as fiercely loyal as once i did since all the changes, and for a short time, i mildly grieved the loss of that - so i honestly DO understand where you yourself are coming from [or at least i think i do]. i think i might just be further along in the letting go process, of withdrawing quite a bit of my emotional investment, as well as financial, to a place that was once the epicentre of my creative endeavours.

let us hope that the things you bring up in your above post become rectified soon, yea? :))

Giana posted at 1:44AM Tue, 15 December 2015 - #4244245

@Cimarron

a few months ago, i felt the way you just expressed - truly emotionally invested, in a sense, into this site. i joined in April 2001, and aside from a few images, probably no more than 5, i've only ever posted here during all that time. most of all monies, whenst purchasing, were spent here in support of the larger picture, ie, the vendors, the site itself, etc., and though p'raps in reality untrue, i felt that i was at least a part of something, albeit i stood at the fringes, but still a part of it, and saw Rendo as my internet 'home' in many ways.

some of my reaction to the most recent site re-design i absolutely take responsibility for, even if the only reason those reactions came to be were solely based on circumstances beyond my control - i mean i certainly could've chosen differently how the re-design affected/infected me. at the same time, and even with the understanding that the changes are also out of the hands of the mods/admins, i watched, and experienced, how members were being interacted with by Staff, and i found the whole thing to be wanting in the end.

on top of that, shopping became even more cumbersome a task. and whilst i can let go of many of my frustrations and disappointments regarding the changes, and i can toss my hands up and accept the shortcomings of the staff, to ask me to jump through hoops just to spend my money is a bit much. furthermore, to continuously drive a marketing schematic down my throat almost at every turn, has me questioning my position on participating in a way [purchasing things] in support of such a place. i know that i no longer feel as fiercely loyal as once i did since all the changes, and for a short time, i mildly grieved the loss of that - so i honestly DO understand where you yourself are coming from [or at least i think i do]. i think i might just be further along in the letting go process, of withdrawing quite a bit of my emotional investment, as well as financial, to a place that was once the epicentre of my creative endeavours.

let us hope that the things you bring up in your above post become rectified soon, yea? :))

Giana, you certainly sound a bit further on..... I'm still at the dummy spit stage;) Cumbersome, that's exactly how to describe shopping here now and like you I do hope Rendo makes the necessary changes.

I don't think PRIME is that great and probably won't re-up next year. I do look at the PRIME FLASH items, but because I don't enjoy navigating the post August 2015 Rendo layout I'm not here much anymore.

The emails people talk about are inconsistent. Today is the 29th of December. I saw a new email for a wishlist item that came in on the 28th. I checked out the item and would have bought it at the discount price listed in the email. But today it was full price. Other items already in Flash longer seem to go to the 30th of December. The email didn't say it was an expired sale when I looked at it. Now I'm disgruntled (before I was only mildly gruntled). Rendo sends me tons of mostly useless emails for 10% off, and when I'm finally interested in an item, it's not available after I take the time to login and check. In one fell swoop marketing whetted my appetite, got me to respond, and then turned me off.

After, what, four months of operation (Aug-Dec), I feel the site has improved slightly, but it's still really disorganized. An ill-presented mish-mash that tends to be hard to follow even if Google likes it.

The site needs a major overhaul.

yes.

Ok, well my 2 cents worth. I've been a member at Rendo for quite a while myself, bought a few things over the years, etc. The new site redesign? Ok, admittedly not a huge fan. Prime membership? Yup.. I recently purchased one, but for me it makes sense. Based on the things that I buy and the volume that I purchase I'll get my money's worth out of it. Granted, it's not as good a value as it once was, back when I paid more for it - but still it will end up saving me money in the long run. Would I prefer they go back to the previous way they did prime? Yes.. absolutely. I much preferred it when all Prime products where the same price and there wasn't any guesswork involved. My recommendation would be to establish a second category for these products that are not really prime priced. If the vendor isn't willing to sell at Prime pricing then they shouldn't get the benefit of prime advertising. The prime members could still enjoy a discount, but the vendors wouldn't get the product placement they would get unless they are willing to sell at a true prime price.

Like 3d stories I've found the advertising to be inconsistent - I will receive notifications for a sale only to discover it has expired which of course simply encourages me not to buy the product. I would recommend if a product is only going to be on sale for 24 or 48 hours, then put a huge banner at the top of the email saying that - TODAY ONLY or 2 DAYS ONLY or something along those lines. Either that, or don't send out email advertisements for sales on products that will only be on sale for such a short period of time. Again if the vendors aren't willing to offer the sale for a longer period of time, they shouldn't get premium treatment when it comes to product placement and advertising.

i do find the delivery of such sales emailings to arrive too late as well. issues regarding which emails servers one may be using have come up quite oft, with Google as standing as the most apparent, or obvious, culprit. not sure i'm willing to buy into that whole stance as i do receive all other types of mailings from this site just fine, and in a timely fashion - for example, if i purchased a thing right now, as i am typing this, i know that i'll receive a notice to my email confirming the purchase, even before, p'raps, the site itself has turned a pending download into an actual download for me.

it does get tiresome to receive sales notices that have come and gone all before i'm even aware of their existence at all. i'm all for a good tease, mind, but there does come a point whenst that turns to only frustration, yea? eventually, all sales notices will, or could, be viewed akin to the 'boy that cried wolf', so they aren't opened or considered at all, but merely dumped without viewing because one becomes accustomed to the pointlessness of the endeavour... ie. Rendo is essentially training me, in the long run, to just simply ignore them... shrug...

Giana posted at 1:52PM Wed, 30 December 2015 - #4246424

i do find the delivery of such sales emailings to arrive too late as well. issues regarding which emails servers one may be using have come up quite oft, with Google as standing as the most apparent, or obvious, culprit. not sure i'm willing to buy into that whole stance as i do receive all other types of mailings from this site just fine, and in a timely fashion - for example, if i purchased a thing right now, as i am typing this, i know that i'll receive a notice to my email confirming the purchase, even before, p'raps, the site itself has turned a pending download into an actual download for me.

it does get tiresome to receive sales notices that have come and gone all before i'm even aware of their existence at all. i'm all for a good tease, mind, but there does come a point whenst that turns to only frustration, yea? eventually, all sales notices will, or could, be viewed akin to the 'boy that cried wolf', so they aren't opened or considered at all, but merely dumped without viewing because one becomes accustomed to the pointlessness of the endeavour... ie. Rendo is essentially training me, in the long run, to just simply ignore them... shrug...

Yup. I think they'd be better off not emailing stuff out unless the sale was scheduled for at least a week to avoid such problems, or even making it so the email would go out a week ahead of the scheduled date of the sale. Not everyone checks their email regularly and it just has too much of a negative impact on your customer base when they can't take advantage of sale prices.

I'm finding that I rarely even check the Daily Deals anymore due to the best discount being 40%. That, and I'm low on money right now. This big change in prime is the worst idea Rendo has ever come up with.

I don't look at the marketplace at all now whether it be Prime or not, I don't even download the so say freebie. I was shopping at Daz at the weekend picking up $16.95 items for $1.99 the smallest discount I got was 70% and a most were around the 80% mark and that is without paying a membership fee up front. Whereas here I pay up front and get a 40% restricted use voucher, tell me again about the benefits of being a Prime member.

I still spend $200 - $300 dollars a month on Poser stuff but none of that is spent at Rendo.

And now there isn't even a daily deals page, so unless they decide to announce it on that unwieldly half-broken carousel on the front page, we no longer have any way of knowing what is on sale unless we want to submit ourselves to endless email notifications from Rendo.

Yeah, whoever is in charge of this site needs to take a look at Daz and RDNA sales. RDNA only has a couple dozen or so (generally long-lasting) sales per year, but they always range between 40 to 60% off (60% usually seen only during holiday sales, namely the Halloween, Christmas, and Summer sales)

RDNA has three coupons this weekend. We don't seem to have a January coupon at all (though my spending is not affected by this, but by the hollow space in my wallet ...)

IceEmpress posted at 11:46AM Sat, 23 January 2016 - #4250747

And now there isn't even a daily deals page, so unless they decide to announce it on that unwieldly half-broken carousel on the front page, we no longer have any way of knowing what is on sale unless we want to submit ourselves to endless email notifications from Rendo.

Yeah, whoever is in charge of this site needs to take a look at Daz and RDNA sales. RDNA only has a couple dozen or so (generally long-lasting) sales per year, but they always range between 40 to 60% off (60% usually seen only during holiday sales, namely the Halloween, Christmas, and Summer sales)

RDNA have sale this weekend for 30 to 50% off depending on how much you spend and, once again, no upfront joining fee and new items are included. Hence the reason I am still spending at Daz, RDNA and Hivewire but have not spent a cent here since September of last year.