Look.... No offence intended to any body... but for months now I've been coming back to the marketplace for Poser product and noticed that not only have prices increased, but quality and content of packs have fallen to a very, very low level... have all the merchants out there run out of ideas? has everything been done now? is everyone just converting their packs to V5,V6 and V7... G1, G2 and G3... or just given up?

Just pushin' the boat out there to test the tide... so to speak.

Actually your post is offensive... This post is in violation of TOS as it is considered Flame Baiting.

Thank you digitell. If you are concerned RGUS ... please refer to a more appropriate forum and rephrase to avoid violating the TOS.

Yo Boni and Digitell... sorry if I didn't name names or packs that affect the TOS... just a thought is all. Now how the hell do you delete a post so that nobody else gets the wrong idea? As helpful co-ordinators, you must be able to do this for me eh!

I actually appreciate hearing from buyers what they would like to see in the Marketplace. And, I hope we can all have a civil conversation about this. It's important to me as a vendor to know what buyers want, and I'm not offended by it, even if some might think it seems like flame baiting. It seems that it's an important issue for buyers, too. So, I'd love all the feedback you will give me (even if it is sent via SiteMail). 'Poser products' is a little bit vague can you be more specific of what products you would like to see for Poser? What figures do you use? Are you wanting props, scenes, clothing, hair, shoes?

From a vendor perspective, I can say that many of our last V4 clothing items didn't sell very well, and we have many of our regular, loyal buyers asking for G2 & G3 clothing and hair. So, we have a few G3 items, but have tried to stick more to the Gen2 figures so that even Poser users can use them with the DSON poser compatible files (that we've been providing). Personally, I'd love to develop more just Poser products. It's faster and easier for us, but it feels too much like wasting our time because they don't sell.

Well then 'RPublishing' that was more the response I was hoping for. Being a long time purchaser and renderer of 3D Poser packs, I miss the new and exciting products that have been produced by long standing merchants here and on other sites. Appreciating that everything is a commercial exercise, each side of the marketplace, one still expects good value from money in there sale and purchase.

What I feel particularly is missing from the current marketplace is theme based products. RDNA achieve this to a certain degree with their massive modular packs. I'd name them, but I'd probably get in more trouble. If base packs for themed ideas were released over a series of weeks then maybe this would help sales by spreading cost of the packs out for the buyers. $100 for a one of pack is hard to move, but 5 - $20 packs over weeks is easier on the credit card.

I could move on endlessly with lots of ideas for packs... but I'm not a merchant and I always go with the best sales pitch I have ever used when I was selling...

"Never give them what that want... give them what they dreamed they could never have" Always worked for me.

RPublishing, I would love, love, love to see a (smallish) street scene - but MODERN please - it seems that all the props and scenes are medieval. I'd love to find a scene where the figures I use could stroll past bodegas and fruit stands, with a small sidewalk cafe/coffee shop, etc. You know, the kind of place we wicked (LOL) city dwellers see each day.

For Poser, please. I don't use DS nor any DS figures.

And, sorry, Renderosity, I have to agree with the OP. In general, the quality has dropped tremendously in the store with the (now rare) exception of a few vendors.

I'll give you an example - yesterday, I was searching for a character for Dusk. There was exactly ONE in the RO marketplace. At another store, I found many quality characters, on sale at half the price of RO.

I guess I should come back and add some observations about what I said about quality.......

1. I use Poser. Therefore, I cannot speak to the quality of Genesis3 products in the store. I don't look at them, I don't waste my time evaluating quality as I would be unable to do so.

2. I use Poser. Most days, the What's New page of Renderosity does not contain a single product I can use in my software of choice. Hence, I move onto another store to shop.

3. Most of the products in the store of late are either DS only, Fantasy and/or Genesis 3. Because those are not generally the products I purchase, I rarely find myself looking through what Renderosity has on offer except a quick glance to confirm "yeah, nothing here for me. Next."

I totally agree with Rgus. As a long time and very big former spender here, I can say the majority of items are specifically G2 and V7. A lot are simply converted items. I primarily use Poser. When buying V7 and G2 items (which is infrequent), I go to buy them at where prices are much more competitive (although they are higher there too than they used to be).... Simply put, you cannot compete with the other store on V7 and some G2 items, especially on their sales. By dumping Poser users you've driven away most poser users (as they have though over there at the other store, but there are few older pieces that go on sale every once in awhile) to your other competition who's also running deeper discounts. The tone of the store, and the community forums have changed drastically. I know you don't get the same number of visitors nor nearly the amount of sales. Fine. I do occasionally support favorite vendors who still make poser items (and there are some newer vendors ones I'd support if they were better priced). That said my spending here is about 500% less than it used to be....

To me this is a ghost of what it used to be..... less people participating, an upper management who doesn't care, coupons that really don't work properly, a prime club that basically shafted good customers, galleries and forums that were improperly coded for no reason but poor management decisions (don't use this same web developer).

Honestly, I don't really participate in the forums because of certain trolls who get to run rampant and drive away customers even though they may be knowledgeable in some matters, they get away with posting highly offensive and very rude posts. Mind you other communities have nicer and brighter people who don't have giant egos or chips on their shoulders and are willing to help without any attitude. So it's like a bad version of a high school click here with no real reason to keep coming back.

And on a side note, maybe the thread is a violation of TOS. Perhaps it could be worded another manner. But ignoring comments is what's driven no one to post in the Prime membership forums any more. It's not that they don't complain because the problems have been fixed. It's that no one listens and it's easier to go elsewhere. Generally these are warning signs of a giant problem. At this point they are signs of a business soon to be in trouble. Fourth quarter sales figures should be in for most vendors here as well as the actual store. I can't imagine "they've increased!" especially compared to previous fourth quarter sales.

To answer your question RGUS, yes, the merchants ran out of ideas a long time ago. It isn't just here - some of the shoes made for the genesis 3 female sold at DAZ were originally made for P6 Jessi & Miki 1 (I have them).

Most merchants work under the I only make what I am personally interested in philosophy. And it is the customer's fault that sales aren't what they could be. You can't tell them that maybe the market can't support another buy me drinky dress for ANY figure.

The market has changed - the vendors haven't.

For the most part, the vendors here appear aggressively uninterested in learning any post Poser 6 feature. I actually had one tell me they didn't have time to learn the features of Poser 9 while making their very first product for Dawn. Roll that thought around. Didn't have time to learn the features of the software that was REQUIRED to use the figure (and the content).

You can't get a vendor to understand that it is because of vendor intransigence that the Fitting Room was added to Poser. That has fundamentally changed clothes buying.

It is easier to use than Wardrobe Wizard or Xdresser, and now any figure has access to M4 or V4's wardrobe. I can convert an outfit for V4 to Dawn (or any other figure) in less than 30 seconds.

They also don't want to hear that any of us have either left Poser 6 way of doing things & V4 behind (because as we all know, no one actually bought any copy of Poser beyond Poser 4.) We still have to deal with material .pz2 files because too many vendors are too lazy to join us in the 21st century. (It also violates 'Rosity requirements to sell here - funny how they don't enforce that requirement to make materiel .mc6 files. After all, vendors have only had a decade to get with the program.)

All of this factors into what I buy here - I have to calculate how much work I have to do to bring a product to Poser 9 standards. If it is too much work, I'll pass (and usually purchase something else - at another storefront.)

Tie in the fact that, to this day, there isn't much available for the genesis line of figures either. By now, there is the same amount of clothing available for the genesis figure as was released in the 1st 90 days of the V4 era. There is an untapped market there and it is low hanging fruit. The content for the genesis figures available here is better than at DAZ, although I will grant that the promotional images over there are better.

As others have pointed out, a lot of people don't spend time here that they used to - as an example, before the site "redesign" 'Rosity averaged (according to the "members online" thingy in the upper left hand corner) between 4500 to 6000 users online at any one time. I don't think they have cracked 3,000 since the site redesign.

The prime forums are a dead as last year's flowers, I hope 'Rosity isn't banking on much in the way of renewals - because it isn't happening. The way they botched that and then threw the vendors under the bus and blaming everyone except themselves for what happened is an interesting theory to increase sales.

At the end of the day - as a Poser user, there are better storefronts for Poser content. Unfortunately, 'Rosity has become the home of the lowest common denominator.

I must have a completely different view as the team here as I do not see the original post as being offensive more an honest view on a perceived trend the OP is unhappy with. The claim that it is likely to produce a flame war, well that is down to how people respond, but I could come up with a bunch of threads that are clearly an attempt to start a war that have gone unchallenged.

Addressing the OP's question I have to say I cannot really comment on the quality of the products for, as a Poser user, I have not shopped here since September of last year. The reason for that have already been laid out very well by Kazam561 which is a real shame because Rendo used to be a site I visited on a daily basis and threw $200 - $300 at most months.

I am sorry, and I know it might make me unpopular, but to jump on to someone who appears to be really concerned about aspects of the marketplace while ignoring bigger issues......well let's just say words like Burning, Nero and Rome come to mind.

I actually agree with the OP, the increasingly smaller trickle of Poser items being released lately is mostly rubbish. If saying so is a violation of the TOS, then so be it. I hardly shop here anymore because there is nothing to buy!

DreaminGirl posted at 12:20PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247649

I actually agree with the OP, the increasingly smaller trickle of Poser items being released lately is mostly rubbish. If saying so is a violation of the TOS, then so be it. I hardly shop here anymore because there is nothing to buy!

To bad, this forum is not meant to be a free speech area. Expressing opinions as valid they might be, can be against the forum TOS. So just vote with your wallet ;)

OK, let's use a live example. This set in the marketplace What's New today appears to be some really nice modeling https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/colorful-loft/113118/

And, it's for Poser! Wooooot!

But, the description leaves me confused as to what I might be purchasing. It says: This item contains 19 High Quality Props for the Loft Scene

So, that leads me to believe the "Loft Scene" is an additional model somewhere. Yet, there's no link anywhere on the page to this Loft Scene. So is it included? Am I buying the Loft Scene? Or 19 props?

Yes, I could open the ReadMe and look at the object file list, but I shouldn't HAVE TO. You're trying to sell me something. Tell me what you are selling if you want me to buy it.

I realize for some vendors english is not their native language, but if you want me to buy, you have to sell me and it's to Renderosity's advantage (more sales!) to help these vendors provide good ad copy. Describing what you want me to BUY, in full, is the first step.

I don't mean to be ugly to this vendor - the product looks very nice and interesting. I'm interested, but I'm not sold. Minor changes to the ad copy would likely sell me.

Send the vendor a site mail asking for clarification. The read me lists a !Loft.pp2. It's likely there is a basic room prop in which all the other props go. The lack of clarity in the read me is a the fault of the beta testers and Rendo Q/A. Back when I had the time to beta test for vendors, I always checked the read me not only for errors but to make certain it was clear what the buyer was getting and what they were not.

icprncss2 posted at 8:31AM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247670

Send the vendor a site mail asking for clarification. The read me lists a !Loft.pp2. It's likely there is a basic room prop in which all the other props go. The lack of clarity in the read me is a the fault of the beta testers and Rendo Q/A. Back when I had the time to beta test for vendors, I always checked the read me not only for errors but to make certain it was clear what the buyer was getting and what they were not.

I realize I could do that. However, my point is that most 3D buying is an impulse purchase. Therefore, without the needed information, I am being asked to go out of my way to spend money. I shouldn't have to do either - open the ReadMe nor email the vendor. Frankly, I don't want the product that badly.

Since a refund of misspent funds at Renderosity is like pulling teeth, I need the information before I pull out the credit card.

And, you're correct - it goes to the OP about a lack of quality.

Well, I think there may be a shift ... with Poser 11. and look at recent figures like Fredel's Odelle. And the continued popularity of Danae's Metropolitan collection with Tokyo as a new addition. There has been a lull, but I think it will pick up. But then I'm a bit of a Polyanna.

I think RGUS put it very nicely in the subject. lol! I'm not offended in the least and when an artist such as RGUS complains, I for one listen!

I don't buy much content however so I can't agree or disagree with most of what is said but I wanted to point out a few things as a vendor.

The 3D Market has been divided recently way more than it was and it's not always easy to figure out which way to go when creating a product.

I have been a Poser user since Poser 4 and I don't like DS at all (no offense DS users) but it's hard to ignore the G3 figures when the MP is full of content for them and so little for V4.

"By dumping Poser users you've driven away most poser users (as they have though over there at the other store, but there are few older pieces that go on sale every once in awhile) to your other competition who's also running deeper discounts. The tone of the store, and the community forums have changed drastically."

Sadly this is very true. Some of us vendors hoped Renderosity would stay more geared towards Poser & V4 but unfortunately this didn't happen.

Some of the things I read here however don't seem very just such as:

" Most merchants work under the I only make what I am personally interested in philosophy. And it is the customer's fault that sales aren't what they could be..."

I strongly doubt this is the case most of the time. Personally I create what I like because I can give the best by doing so.

I couldn't work on something I didn't like for weeks or more no matter how much customers liked or wanted it.

In any case don't stop complaining, don't stop letting us know what you like and/or don't like please!

I don't answer posts very often but I do always read them because your input is very important and necessary.

Thanks!

Well, nirvy, you make a simple base mistake - the choices are NOT Genesis or V4.

There's an abundance of other figures available to users than those 2. Sorry, but I don't use either of those figures so you have no hope in hell of selling me products for either.

I don't use a figure that's 10 years old and been "done to death" (V4). If I'm being honest, it's why I don't use anything Genesis either - V4 done to death clothing converted to Genesis holds absolutely no interest for me. I use new technology that utilizes the figures that take advantage of that technology. I buy from vendors who endorse new technology.

So, as long as you're stuck on Genesis or V4..........

I absolutely agree with the original post. I now make my own stuff and keep it to myself. I haven't bought anything in a few years now.

Most of the comments made seem to be addressing the entirely predictable outcome of the Daz/Poser split. Simple supply and demand would indicate that items made for a figure who's users have closets bursting with content would not continue to buy or need more. I also tend to think there is way more content in various marketplaces for Gen 4 figures than for Genesis of any generation (supply). This is true of props, poses, morphs, etc. as well. Genesis 3, on the other hand, had 0 items on the market before it was released (demand). Unique items would be good but would still be niche and, therefore, sell modestly. Given the choice why would a vendor support Poser over Studio?

The Poser community has neglected to embrace any new figure in mass. Commenters to this board and others have stated that SM should just keep doing what they've always done; they have plenty of content already; or if Poser ceased production today they'd still have a copy on their hard drive. If you want to keep using V4 don't complain as she goes the way of all digital things (I think she'll still fit on a Zip disk). It can't be changed.

I can't tell anybody how to spend their time and money but if you are concerned about the Poser ecosystem and want the software to continue to thrive with vendors making new product, it may be necessary to be somewhat proactive. You may scoff, but right now HiveWire3D is Poser's last best chance. They are the only organized entity dedicated to Poser and creating a full family of modern figures; man, woman, child, toons, horses and other animals. They're the only such entity with a storefront, forums (back finally), 3rd party vendors, and some ideas about marketing. You don't like Dawn? Fine. Buy something else to help finance Dawn 2. Or wait for and heavily support Ero's Project E. Keep in mind though that even if PE takes off it still leaves a huge hole in the ecosystem that people that don't specialize in pinups will have trouble embracing. And once your new figure is chosen flood the various Poser galleries that are currently overrun with Studio renders with (good) Poser images. Vote with your renders. Let vendors know we still exist . . .

. . . or you can just complain about the lack of content.

Agree, false1, but on the flip side, vendors need not complain when the 9,999th version of a V4 bathing suit/corset/porn outfit doesn't sell.

I use the Hivewire models extensively, but I was trying to keep from naming the competition in this thread in hopes it wouldn't be locked.

These days, my money is spent at Hivewire and RDNA because THEY have not limited their product lines to Genesis or V4.

ssgbryan posted at 11:39AM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247644

We still have to deal with material .pz2 files because too many vendors are too lazy to join us in the 21st century. (It also violates 'Rosity requirements to sell here - funny how they don't enforce that requirement to make materiel .mc6 files. After all, vendors have only had a decade to get with the program.)

As a vendor, this part stood out to me. Why are material .pz2s considered out-of-date? Why is the alternative better? I honestly don't know. The reason I make .pz2s for materials is so they'll be compatible in both DAZ and Poser (as much as possible, anyway), but if there's a better way I'm interested to hear it.

false1 posted at 5:44PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247713

Most of the comments made seem to be addressing the entirely predictable outcome of the Daz/Poser split. Simple supply and demand would indicate that items made for a figure who's users have closets bursting with content would not continue to buy or need more. I also tend to think there is way more content in various marketplaces for Gen 4 figures than for Genesis of any generation (supply). This is true of props, poses, morphs, etc. as well. Genesis 3, on the other hand, had 0 items on the market before it was released (demand). Unique items would be good but would still be niche and, therefore, sell modestly. Given the choice why would a vendor support Poser over Studio?

The Poser community has neglected to embrace any new figure in mass. Commenters to this board and others have stated that SM should just keep doing what they've always done; they have plenty of content already; or if Poser ceased production today they'd still have a copy on their hard drive. If you want to keep using V4 don't complain as she goes the way of all digital things (I think she'll still fit on a Zip disk). It can't be changed.

I can't tell anybody how to spend their time and money but if you are concerned about the Poser ecosystem and want the software to continue to thrive with vendors making new product, it may be necessary to be somewhat proactive. You may scoff, but right now HiveWire3D is Poser's last best chance. They are the only organized entity dedicated to Poser and creating a full family of modern figures; man, woman, child, toons, horses and other animals. They're the only such entity with a storefront, forums (back finally), 3rd party vendors, and some ideas about marketing. You don't like Dawn? Fine. Buy something else to help finance Dawn 2. Or wait for and heavily support Ero's Project E. Keep in mind though that even if PE takes off it still leaves a huge hole in the ecosystem that people that don't specialize in pinups will have trouble embracing. And once your new figure is chosen flood the various Poser galleries that are currently overrun with Studio renders with (good) Poser images. Vote with your renders. Let vendors know we still exist . . .

. . . or you can just complain about the lack of content.

On the whole I agree with you but I am not sure even Hivewire3D is Poser's last chance. For instance, I have yet to upgrade to Poser 11 for two main reasons, firstly I am more than happy with the Dawn and the rest of the Hivewire family so I do not have a tremendous need for Pauline, and second I still have no love for the deactivation service. So in one sense I am keeping Poser alive by staying with Poser Pro 2014, but I am not helping SM much.

The lack of Poser renders has multiple reasons, not just the lack of new content, as more than a couple of members here have deleted their whole gallery and along with it hundreds of Poser renders. Being one of those members any renders I do now are added to the Dawn, or relevant gallery, over at RDNA.

I know there is less demand for V4 items here but how much is that down to users moving away from V4 or buyers moving away from Rendo. I don't know the answer but I think reason for change in the market place has many reasons and I really don't envy any vendor trying to work out what to produce, particularly if customers are frowned on for giving their view on the market.

gmm2 posted at 1:01PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247723

ssgbryan posted at 11:39AM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247644

We still have to deal with material .pz2 files because too many vendors are too lazy to join us in the 21st century. (It also violates 'Rosity requirements to sell here - funny how they don't enforce that requirement to make materiel .mc6 files. After all, vendors have only had a decade to get with the program.)

As a vendor, this part stood out to me. Why are material .pz2s considered out-of-date? Why is the alternative better? I honestly don't know. The reason I make .pz2s for materials is so they'll be compatible in both DAZ and Poser (as much as possible, anyway), but if there's a better way I'm interested to hear it.

pz2s are really limiting in what they can make use of in the material room. DAZ can read mc6 files. There is no reason to use PZ2 files and make the products dated and limited technology.

Quite simply, if a purchased product comes with pz2 files and mc6 files, I simply trash the pz2 files. And if a product ONLY has pz2 files, I bypass it for a better product.

Thank you for the information, I didn't realize that. Limiting in what ways, exactly? What can .mc6s do that .pz2s can't?

Edit: I ask because I've made .pz2s from .mc6s and the only thing really required was saving them as a different file format, and the results seem identical as far as I can tell. I don't understand how a .pz2 wouldn't be able to have the same features as an .mc6.

I use both .pz2 and .mc6 and include both in my freebies, a mat pose is nothing more than a .mc6 with one line of text changed in a text editor (change mtlCollection to Figure) and .mc6 extension changed to .pz2. Lol.

gmm2 posted at 1:29PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247735

Thank you for the information, I didn't realize that. Limiting in what ways, exactly? What can .mc6s do that .pz2s can't?

Edit: I ask because I've made .pz2s from .mc6s and the only thing really required was saving them as a different file format, and the results seem identical as far as I can tell. I don't understand how a .pz2 wouldn't be able to have the same features as an .mc6.

Here's a nice write up about it by esha: http://esha.at/Knowhow/Knowhow_E/Material_E/material_e.html

EldritchCellar posted at 1:31PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247740

I use both .pz2 and .mc6 and include both in my freebies, a mat pose is nothing more than a .mc6 with one line of text changed in a text editor (change mtlCollection to Figure) and .mc6 extension changed to .pz2. Lol.

Well, here's my experience.......a hair product with no material files in Poser looks like plastic hair. If it's not using proper Poser materials files, I bypass it. Simple.

I think that if a vendor or content creator can't be bothered to include both (literally takes a few minutes to convert manually, not to mention scripts that will convert), something is seriously biased or lazy on the part of that creator. This whole argument is nonsensical.

Crystal. You have no idea what you're talking about, sorry. A .pz2 derived from a .mc6 is the exact same material settings. You can't have one without the other. Mat poses don't magically spring into existance, they're created from .mc6 files. My god.

CrystalGames posted at 12:37PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247741

Here's a nice write up about it by esha: http://esha.at/Knowhow/Knowhow_E/Material_E/material_e.html

The only real difference I'm seeing is that .pz2s can't be used on props unless there's a figure in the scene, which is a downside. But as far as the material settings and such being different, I'm not convinced that .mc6s are better. Also, that page says .mc6s can't be used in DAZ. I appreciate the information, but I still don't understand why .mc6s are better.

Also, just a friendly reminder to not let things get heated in here.

If a material set up is crappy, it's going to be crappy regardless of its delivery system.

Nothing heated, just chagrined at nonsensical statements.

You're fine, EC. I'm just heading things off.

gmm2 posted at 2:00PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247746

CrystalGames posted at 12:37PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247741

Here's a nice write up about it by esha: http://esha.at/Knowhow/Knowhow_E/Material_E/material_e.html

The only real difference I'm seeing is that .pz2s can't be used on props unless there's a figure in the scene, which is a downside. But as far as the material settings and such being different, I'm not convinced that .mc6s are better. Also, that page says .mc6s can't be used in DAZ. I appreciate the information, but I still don't understand why .mc6s are better.

DAZ simply does not, cannot make use of Poser's material room settings. A perfect example is velvet or metal. I can product a beautiful velvet material using Poser's material room. I cannot produce the same material in DS. Simple.

It doesn't matter what extension you give it. DS simply discards information from Poser's material room it does not understand.

Nothing heated. No problems. If I purchase a Poser product, I want Poser materials. If they don't have it, I simply move on because there's plenty of products out there which DO make full use of the Poser material room.

I still don't get what that has to do with mat pose/.mc6 but ok. Back to promo renders...

What must Renderosity do if it wishes to survive? Currently it's becoming a Genesis figure store. Realize this... Daz's current G3/V7 purposely has no intended support for Smith Micro's Poser. So let's follow their train of thought. Daz wishes to own the market. Not just on software but eventually figures (at this price range). Daz has changed supporting a competitor's software and thus sacrificed a large consumer spending group in plan of a long term goal. How does this affect Renderosity who sells G2/G3/V7 items? If the Daz's plan comes to fruition and Smith Micro decides to fold up or go a completely different route then Daz will have the market for these type of figures. So let's take the point home. How does Daz own the market place? They change their EULA. A EULA which will make it impossible to sell any support for Daz figures at any non-Daz store. Daz wouldn't change a EULA to spite others would it? Nooooooo.... That's never been done before in business. Wake up Renderosity. You can't afford to play follow the leader when their plan is to starve you out of business.

You, as a company must incentivize. You must use your current strength with your current vendors. Yes you take a small hit, but you need to invest in a future. Either make better deals with vendors to get them to provide more varied content or start folding up your shop now. Why should I buy an outfit here for a G3/V7 figure from a vendor who's got a shop at Daz with an equivalent outfit for 50% to 75% off? Right now, even though I'm not a D/S user, Daz's Platinum Club has better deals than Prime.

Ask customers what they want. Run polls asking about outfits, and props. Have vendors work with customers to custom make items. Yes it's a lot of work, but it will revitalize the market place.

And to vendors, this ship is leaving too. Sure raise prices while you can.... if you can stand losing business. Both sides of the shop need to be flexible if they want to survive. Less stores, and less programs mean a worse time for vendors too.

CrystalGames posted at 1:10PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247757

DAZ simply does not, cannot make use of Poser's material room settings. A perfect example is velvet or metal. I can product a beautiful velvet material using Poser's material room. I cannot produce the same material in DS. Simple.

It doesn't matter what extension you give it. DS simply discards information from Poser's material room it does not understand.

Nothing heated. No problems. If I purchase a Poser product, I want Poser materials. If they don't have it, I simply move on because there's plenty of products out there which DO make full use of the Poser material room.

Yes, this is true. Certain materials will require DAZ-specific files in order to get the same results as in Poser. But not all of them will. That's what I was getting at, and I apologize for not being more clear. The reason I use .pz2s is so my products can be used in both DAZ and Poser without having to make a bunch of additional files. If I have to make some kind of material that won't translate well from Poser to DAZ (glass or metal), I try to prioritize Poser compatibility. I still use .pz2s for that because I don't like having to go into the Material Room to apply a material; to me, the MR is for building materials, and the results I get from a .pz2 are identical to an .mc6.

"Knowledge doesn't excuse bad behavior or giant egotism. There are always people more knowledgeable and kinder."

That's catchy, you've been using that one alot lately. (Beats kitten with stick). Lol.

gmm2 posted at 3:00PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247766

CrystalGames posted at 1:10PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247757

DAZ simply does not, cannot make use of Poser's material room settings. A perfect example is velvet or metal. I can product a beautiful velvet material using Poser's material room. I cannot produce the same material in DS. Simple.

It doesn't matter what extension you give it. DS simply discards information from Poser's material room it does not understand.

Nothing heated. No problems. If I purchase a Poser product, I want Poser materials. If they don't have it, I simply move on because there's plenty of products out there which DO make full use of the Poser material room.

Yes, this is true. Certain materials will require DAZ-specific files in order to get the same results as in Poser. But not all of them will. That's what I was getting at, and I apologize for not being more clear. The reason I use .pz2s is so my products can be used in both DAZ and Poser without having to make a bunch of additional files. If I have to make some kind of material that won't translate well from Poser to DAZ (glass or metal), I try to prioritize Poser compatibility. I still use .pz2s for that because I don't like having to go into the Material Room to apply a material; to me, the MR is for building materials, and the results I get from a .pz2 are identical to an .mc6.

But, you don't have to go into the material room to apply an mc6. Just double click. Exactly the same as a pz2.

The issue really is simple - if I'm buying something metal, I want it to look like metal instead of grey plastic. Hair should look like hair and not helmet head.

Kazam561 posted at 3:06PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247765

So let's take the point home. How does Daz own the market place? They change their EULA. A EULA which will make it impossible to sell any support for Daz figures at any non-Daz store. Daz wouldn't change a EULA to spite others would it? Nooooooo.... That's never been done before in business. Wake up Renderosity. You can't afford to play follow the leader when their plan is to starve you out of business.

Anyone who doesn't see this coming from a mile away has their head in the sand. I wish them luck.

CrystalGames posted at 2:16PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247774

But, you don't have to go into the material room to apply an mc6. Just double click. Exactly the same as a pz2.

The issue really is simple - if I'm buying something metal, I want it to look like metal instead of grey plastic. Hair should look like hair and not helmet head.

I just tried adding an .mc6 in the Pose Room. It turns out the only reason it didn't work before is that I didn't have the correct materials selected. So it'll work, but I still have to go into the MR and select the figure. Not a huge issue, but it's still an extra step.

You can get good metal and hair materials in a .pz2. Are you talking about in DAZ? Then yes, DAZ-specific materials would be needed. If a .pz2 material looks bad in Poser it's because the material is bad. It has nothing to do with the file format.

gmm2 posted at 3:25PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247780

CrystalGames posted at 2:16PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247774

But, you don't have to go into the material room to apply an mc6. Just double click. Exactly the same as a pz2.

The issue really is simple - if I'm buying something metal, I want it to look like metal instead of grey plastic. Hair should look like hair and not helmet head.

I just tried adding an .mc6 in the Pose Room. It turns out the only reason it didn't work before is that I didn't have the correct materials selected. So it'll work, but I still have to go into the MR and select the figure. Not a huge issue, but it's still an extra step.

No, you most certainly do NOT need to go to the Material Room to load an MC6 file. MT5, yes, but NOT an MC6. An MT5 file is a single material.........an MC6 file is a MATERIAL COLLECTION and can be loaded with a double click.

CrystalGames posted at 2:29PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247781

No, you most certainly do NOT need to go to the Material Room to load an MC6 file. MT5, yes, but NOT an MC6. An MT5 file is a single material.........an MC6 file is a MATERIAL COLLECTION and can be loaded with a double click.

I could load an .mc6 in the Pose Room, but only after I went into the Material Room and selected a material on the figure I was trying to load it on. Just selecting the figure in the Pose Room and trying to load it didn't work.

gmm2 posted at 3:35PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247783

CrystalGames posted at 2:29PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247781

No, you most certainly do NOT need to go to the Material Room to load an MC6 file. MT5, yes, but NOT an MC6. An MT5 file is a single material.........an MC6 file is a MATERIAL COLLECTION and can be loaded with a double click.

I could load an .mc6 in the Pose Room, but only after I went into the Material Room and selected a material on the figure I was trying to load it on. Just selecting the figure in the Pose Room and trying to load it didn't work.

Then you are loading an MT5 file, not an MC6. Even an MT5 file can be loaded in the Pose room, you only have to select the material zone from the resultant popup to apply it.

In the Main Window dropdown, choose your clothing figure.......apply an MC6 by double clicking on it. You never need a trip to the Material Room to do so.

Crystal is right on that. You can apply .mc6 in the pose room. I think that behavior was introduced poser 8? Forget which version. I think there's still alot of Poser 6 users out there, for a vendor it's not really a consideration... for a freebie maker creating legacy style stuff, I like to include .pz2 and .mc6. I don't know about DS, all I know is I should learn how to use it and get a new computer.

Hello

You know that you can apply .mt5 and .mc6 files without ever entering the material room?

Prerequisite is, of course, that you've selected the correct figure/prop to which it should be applied!

**One big difference is that **

• in case of an .mt5 file applied from the pose room, to any figure/prop, you'll be asked to which material zone of your currently selected figure/prop it shall be applied.
• in case of an .mc6 file applied to a non-matching figure/prop anytime, you'll be alerted that the material zones as contained in the file don't exist, and asked whether they should be created - which is a bad idea and should thus be answered by "NO".

Another big difference is flexibility: With .mt5 files, you can replace a material completely, or just add a certain node set while leaving the current material as is. This gives you the option of adding "features" to any existing material... Granted, you'll have to know your way in the Advanced Material Room to wire them up correctly, but I wouldn't want to miss this feature.

PLUS, as it has already been mentioned, an .mt5 file can be applied to any material zone, be it figure or prop. You can't ever do this with a .pz2 set because the material zone are "carved in stone"! (Also note the other limitation - a figure must always be present in the scene. A nuissance if you just want to try out materials on a prop...)

All that said, and to sum it up:

If I find a material (collection) in .pz2 format which is really good and worth keeping, I convert it to an .mt5 or .mc6 file when I install it, to benefit from the advantages described above.

If the material is bad (no matter what file format), I don't use it. I make a mark in my Little Red Book instead, to be cautious before buying more from this vendor...

... which brings us back to the "quality" issue as brought up by the OP.

**Let's keep this discussion going, because it's interesting. But please let's stay civil. ** Regards,

Peter

CrystalGames posted at 2:40PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247785

Then you are loading an MT5 file, not an MC6. Even an MT5 file can be loaded in the Pose room, you only have to select the material zone from the resultant popup to apply it.

In the Main Window dropdown, choose your clothing figure.......apply an MC6 by double clicking on it. You never need a trip to the Material Room to do so.

No, it wasn't an .mt5. It was an .mc6, I promise you.

What version of Poser are you using? I don't know what the "Main Window dropdown" is.