To all my friend here.

I wanna thank you all for the support & love you have giving me over the many years I have been here at renderosity. But with the recent development of new TOS & no off site linking & Politically correct forum rules. I decided its best I leave renderosity. Because I am anything but Politically correct so it would be just a matter of time before I would violate your stupid rules anyway. So I have pulled all my free 3d content & ani blocks, and zbursh morphs out of rendersoty freebie section.& just left my gallery for now. . I am sorry if this inconvenience any of you members.

I have adored my time here and my friendships I have made. But i feel if I can not link share to my own website or sites I share my work like youtube or facebook.&/or be able to speak freely about the "ALL" things that interest me in 3d whether they be political or anything out side the box of rendersoity TOS then there is no longer reason to come here anymore.

To me Art is the purest form of freedom of expression . which I feel is not longer honored at this web site when renders of Political Satire and off color jokes can be removed because it might hurt someone feelings. or that one person(a moderator) may not like a comment and just say its not being politically correct for the forums & remove it, is going way to far for me to accept. I would post a link to where you could find my new home for my content But that will be against the TOS here so from now on you'll need to GUESS where everyone is keeping there free content. . I am sure it will not matter to some of you or "the I agree with everything Posse" that I have left here. But be assured I am am not the only member that has pulled out our free 3d content because of this new tos rule. Renderosity new rules are just a little to fascist for me to agree with. I am to old to deal with Politically correctness when Art is Expression and sharing of all ideas and opinions, not just the ones you like. . Some art is meant to be thought provoking and something even controversial . which is no longer accepted at this web site and a real shame. If you reply to my comment I will not be replying back. The opinions of those running this site no longer matter to me with it comes to this issue with the politically correct TOS rules. So I am retiring my renderosity account and will no longer be supporting or purchasing any more content from renderosity.

May you all have have a great life here at rendersosity and I will miss you greatly. & even perhaps I will see you in another website that is less restrictive & believe in the freedom of expression of all art forms. So I will not be back until some major changes have happen to bring this community back together like it once was. I do hope the idiot that thought this stupid rule up relies Artist like me are what pay your salary. so take some time to think about that so you don't have to wonder why when your sales have dropped . Take care & God bless. Sincerely Ivy Summers

Can't say im surprised :) Did anyone not see this coming? Anyway good luck and btw Daz3d have a list of links to free stuff, maybe you can add a link there as well, at least people will know where to find you.

Noe that it's the weekend, we are really going to see the **** hit the fan. And since the staff will take the weekend off from dealing with this problem despite it being a highly inappropriate time to do so, if they wait until Monday or Tuesday to listen to the community, by then it will be too late.

Allow me to post something I was going to make a topic about. These points are incomplete, and is based on rebutting arguments that I have seen from more than one admin.

"One of our reasons is to protect users from spammy links and viruses that members post"

Sorry, but this is not a valid argument.

1. There is a disclaimer ON YOUR OWN SITE that people click external links at their own risk, and that you are not responsible for for damages to the comp.
2. There are antivirus programs, firewalls, and browser security apps-- many of them free-- that prevent most of these viruses and malware.
3. Most importantly, as Ravyns stated, people have been getting Malware from the 3rd party ads on this site, and have been ever since last summer's relaunch.

"The other Marketplaces do it too" This claim is highly deceptive, and in Hivewire's case, only a half-truth.

1. Daz has a very lenient policy regarding freebie links. We have (or at least had until the latest site redesign) links to freebies collections for Cookie/Chip. The only restriction on freebie link collections is that they cannot be centered on an off-site vendor (e.g. list of free Evilinnocence clothing add-ons) Links to Renderosity and other MPs are allowed so long as they do not link directly to the marketplace.
2. RDNA also has freebie links-- though IIRC only for characters sold on their site and misc stuff (though I can't find the Cookie/Chip links at the moment). The same Cookie/Chip links to freebies list is reposted there. Unless I am mistaken, links to Renderosity and other MPs are allowed so long as they do not link directly to the marketplace.
3. In the case of Hivewire3D, this statement is half-true. They are pretty strict about off-site linking but still allow it. Generally the linked freebies have to be one's own, though, and can't link to a site with a marketplace such as Renderosity freestuff.

Part 2. BTW, None of these are anything new, We The Community have mentioned all of these things numerous times and they are being ignored or argued against.

"Just give people instructions on how to find the freebie/tutorial using on-site search (e.g. on ShareCG), Google, or Bing"

In many cases this simply does not work.

1. Not everyone is skilled/talented at using search engines. In order to make instructions friendly to them, it would have to include in-depth instructions such as "Copy and paste this query into the search. Click on the 5th result that comes up. Now scroll down to the 16th thumbnail on that page" Instructions are even more complicated for sites that redirect you to the homepage if you reach it from a search engine. The person giving instructions may not be able to figure out how to find the page via Google/Bing/etc search, either.
2. The link to the freebie/tutorial may be too far down the hit results list.
3. Some people use Googledrive, Skydrive, or Dropbox. Saying "well, then, upload your freebies to our site" is not a valid argument because those freebies usually belong to someone else.
4. This is a community. One of the MAIN PURPOSES of community forums is to help one another. Banning off-site links, esp. to tutorials, is counterproductive to fostering the community. The argument that we should upload tutorials here again is not valid because said tutorials are rarely ours, and most of us lack the skill needed to make our own. Saying "use someone else's for inspiration" is also invalid because the tutorial creator might require such tutorials to link back to their tutorial.
5. Sometimes a person is in need of a video tutorial. Not everyone knows how to make videos.

"There is no reason for people to upload freebies to other free sites and then post a link here/in Free Stuff. We allow unlimited number of uploads of up to 200 mb per file."

There are many reasons why someone would do this.

1. Many people find it either a hassle or too difficult to upload freebies to this site ever since last summer's redesign. This is likely one of the major reasons why you are seeing far fewer uploaded freebies.
2. Some people don't like the fact that you have a "must be Winzipped" rule. ShareCG allows rars, 7z's, and non-compressed downloads.
3. Some people don't like the 200mb size limit. Or maybe it's more that they don't like some previous size limit, and are unaware of the current one.
4. Someone said that you can only upload one freebie per day. Is this true? If so, then that would be a major reason.
5. Some people have personal websites that include their downloads as well as a blog and/or tutorials, which they may want to direct traffic to.
6. some people use Googledrive, Dropfile, Skydrive, etc. to upload their links. This saves them the time and hassle of uploading their freebies to multiple sites such as their blog, someone else's freebie site, the Daz Forums, and Renderosity, for example.
7. some people have a personal marketplace website E.g. Pretty3D's Artraiders, and may want to direct traffic to it. This is almost entirely a thing of the distant past, of course, since it is no longer lucrative to do this, so people almost never do, anymore.
8. Some vendors have off-site galleries. They may not like the promo and gallery size requirements on Renderosity. This is especially true for non-exclusive products-- it's a lot easier to just link to an external gallery rather than upload extra promos to galleries of multiple marketplaces.

Not all of the staff takes the weekend off. I never take off for weekends and holidays.

What Wheat says is true not all Mods take weekends off, when I was a Mod I never did either but I know it seemed that way, never understood it because many members only have the weekends to be here. Any way I agree with the sentiments of the membership, always did have members backs first and foremost, one of the reasons I wasn't a more popular member of Staff always bucking the system, I admit I acquiesced on some matters and never felt good or true to myself for it .So that was the reason I quit when I did, I saw the "Revolution" coming knew where it was heading and wanted nothing to do with it, I'm not happy with the direction Rendo took and is still heading, This is no longer my main Home I still come and Post occasionally and check on my friends posts(the ones that are still here) but it's a secondary consideration to come here now and that's a shame because I used to just about live here when Online. Rendo is not a welcoming place like it was before it does not feel like home anymore.....

Right now I am redownloading all my purchased products for a final backup. Then I will write a letter to all my favourite vendors, explaining why I will not shop from them anymore unless they change brokerage. Then I am done, I will never spend a single dime here anymore. Enough is enough.

Renderosity now is time to start paying attention. This is NOT in the best interests of your site, community or business. Why will you not see that and stop this descent into madness before it is too late?

OonaTheWild posted at 8:30PM Sat, 20 February 2016 - #4256329

Renderosity now is time to start paying attention. This is NOT in the best interests of your site, community or business. Why will you not see that and stop this descent into madness before it is too late?

Nobody with the power to change anything is paying attention, Oona. They are all in panic mode and have adopted a bunker mentality. Just look through the threads here and see the valid points raised but to which there has either been no response or a trite one. Look at all the pertinent questions asked that have been completely ignored, until such time as it becomes so embarrassing that the thread is locked under some pretense. Speak up and you'll be censored or banned, even if you're a valued vendor and champion of the community, such as happened to 3-DArena just because someone was so insecure that they saw a personal attack where no-one else could.

It's all too late and futile. Best now to just sit back and watch the train wreck happening in slow motion.

Hi everyone- First and foremost, all of us are working on weekends to ensure everything is being answered/taken care of. You know not see that, but it's the honest truth. We thank you for your dedication to our site and hate to see so many members unhappy with our changes, but please remember that we decided this as a team.

And, I've always told you please feel free to reach out to me with questions/concerns/issues you're having. Just because I may not take the suggestion, does not mean I haven't heard you out or listened to you. I am a great listener, so let's talk.

Thanks.

No

Hope, you just don't get it, do you..

Everything that needs to be said, has already been said, and promptly ignored. It's not just too late for talking, it has proven to be futile..

Nothing personal Hope, but I feel that any discussion or concerns I might want to bring to you can and should be discussed in the public view. One reason (or perhaps the main reason) is because any such discussion would be beneficial to the other members of the site, who IMO have a right to hear whatever either of us bring up. The only possible exception being personal issues on your end or mine, which I cannot imagine would come up, esp. since your level of experience (would be different if you were only admin for 4 months or less), age, etc. are not relevant to me (I have not slammed or questioned either, because I take no issue with either of them or any other possible personal issue that I can possibly think of) And while yes, plenty of my discontent, frustration, even hostility is directed at the decisions you have made during this latest issue, far, far more of it is directed towards TPtB. After all, it is not you nor any other forum admin who get the final say on major policies like this, and you most certainly don't get much if any say in their neutering of Prime.

Maybe behind the scenes you are running these concerns by TPtB-- for all I know, you might personally agree with some of our grievances and disagree with some of TPtB's decisions. Problem is, that is not how it looks to us. We have not seen any "I do agree with your point about ____" or "I will run this by the top admin" or anything like that-- which for all I know they do not allow you to say such things-- but that is not how it appears to those of us on the forums, especially when you and a few other admins have been so adamant in your defense of the off-site linking ban. It makes no difference if your hands are tied over making any such responses or not-- the fact is that most people will perceive you to think and act exactly how I have described that you come across, and no amount of benefit of a doubt by me will change that, esp. if my tongue (fingers?) is tied by PM confidentiality.

It might be worth mention that I wonder if perhaps UVDan does not support this decision-- or if he does, is very sad about it-- he has an off-site free programs thread (and IIRC other off-site links stuff as well) and has been (as far as I know) interestingly silent about this. This is merely rhetorical BTW, and I'm not asking for an answer from you or him (unless he wants to)

Just for the record, the last thing I want is for you guys to hate me. I'm just doing my job and trying to also think about members/staff in-between. I told you before that there are lots of changes going on at once and next time, I'll be sure to space them out and be more mindful of you guys. I apologize for that. Again, if I did not care whatsoever or did not want to listen, I wouldn't be on here trying to answer questions/concerns/issues. But, just like you guys, I have a job to do.

In part, I do get why you're upset. It was too much at one time. But, change is never fun for anyone - including me. I've moved out of my comfort zone and came here with my fiance so we could get a taste of life, experience being on our own and such. It hasn't been easy, but we've both made it work. It's life, right?

Everyone comes from various backgrounds and like I said before, you guys don't know me and unfortunately, I've only had interactions with a few of you from time-to-time. I can tell you're all lovely people! And... I hope that eventually you'll feel the same about me. I've been told by long-time members that since I've stepped in, there have been improvements and whenever something has been broken, let me just tell you, I was right there with you bringing it to the programmers. I've always been around and I will always be around.

Regardless of how you feel about me, just know this: I am a genuinely caring and sweet person. If you don't believe me, I'd urge you to contact the coordinators or moderators. Please do reach out to LPR001, Lobo, Wheatpenny or even 3dfineries, who just became a mod because she's earned the title. Please and thank you.

I don't think anyone hates you personally Hope....don't think that was anyone's intention at all. Certainly wasn't mine. I think what they hate is the site changes and you're the spokesperson. Kind of like the waitress gets the flack if the food is bad even tho they didn't cook it. And to that end, since you seem so steadfast, some of us feel like we have no choice but to move on and leave this place behind :). Since it doesn't seem to bother any of the admin, I don't think most of us will feel that bad about leaving. I know I won't.

Laurie

As Laurie said, this isn't about you Hope, it is about how Renderosity is run. And it has been made clear again and again that it doesn't matter what we, the paying customers, and those who has built this community over years, think or want. There is no point talking about it, it won't make any difference. And if you really don't understand by now why people are leaving, then nothing we say now will help you understand.

You keep going on about change 'being hard' and 'taking time to get used to', as though we are averse to change. This shows (yet again) how little you understand us. We are not averse to change. We have been begging for change for a long time in the forums. We want change. But we mean change for the better.

What we've had is change for worse time and time again: Home page change, Forum software, chat room, Prime, Galleries, Freestuff - every change has made things worse in the eyes of so many. And now this dumb TOS change which is clearly hugely unpopular, in case you hadn't noticed.

Changes for the worse will still be changes for the worse no matter how much you spread them out. Stop trying to divert the problem onto us for being 'against change'. We're not.

And I don't think anyone hates you. But certainly the disgraceful treatment of 3-dArena, the ignoring of questions asked of you in threads, the censoring of valid opinions etc. are not endearing you to some parts of the community.

As for being a great listener, well, there's a difference between being a listener and great listener. That difference is engagement, understanding and empathy with the other person. It might be prudent to just call yourself a 'listener' and let others decide how great you are, pending a demonstration of such qualities?

Thank you so much for listening and have a lovely, wonderful day!

In part, I do get why you're upset. It was too much at one time..

That is not the problem. The problem is:

--Broken site redesigns that make Renderosity non-functional for 2 weeks, and buggy for months. Two summers in a row.

--Prime neutering being the worst decision I have ever seen Rendo make

--Incompetent and unprofessional site redesign-- incredibly basic stuff that the programmers should already know.

--Long-standing bugs not getting fixed

Let me elaborate on these issues further. Unfortunately, all of these are beyond your control.

I honestly cannot comprehend the decisions that Rendo has made since the redesign the summer before last. So many decisions, primarily by TPtB, that come across as unbelievably incompetent and unprofessional. Things like not keeping a backup server with the old site design when launching a redesign, in case things go badly (this was an issue during 2 summers ago site redesign) The programmer's (or site owner's) obstinance during that same redesign in changing the "on sale: x% off" font color to something readable (it was a medium gray font on the current dark grey background. He refused to change it for 2 weeks despite being told repeatedly by Kristi and other admins that the customers wanted this because they had trouble noticing and reading the font) It seems like there are a whole bunch regarding web design that I can't remember right now, that was brought up by professional webdesigner forumites during both redesigns that should have been common sense and not needing to be requested by the community. Wait, I remember some-- the infinite scrolling and lack of dropdown menu for vendors being a couple of important examples. The rest I don't remember beyond that it became PAINFULLY clear that TPtB didn't bother to reference some online resources/tutorials on effective site design-- something which is incredibly easy to find in practically infinite number.

There was the initial asinine gallery rule changes which I cannot recall beyond that they would have been detrimental for non-Prime member vendors.

SO many bugs and broken unrestored features from the redesign-- some to this day have yet to be fixed, and a site redesign is just 5-6 months away. 3rd party ads giving people malware upon loading in the Rendo banners (this is insulting when Rendo claims that one of the reasons for banning off-site links is to prevent customers from malware!), Gallery search by date only being restored a few weeks ago, pain-in-the-ass download system hasn't been fixed. Email notifications have been glitchy for a year and a half, now. It has been more than 6 months since the redesign. No business can expect to survive when it takes more than half a year to fix bugs, esp. when another disastrous redesign is only another 5-6 months away.

The Prime neutering is yet another incompetent decision-- and probably the most self-destructive one of all-- even worse than this no-offsite links thing. Unlike the aforementioned problems, not so much from the getgo like the previously mentioned examples as it is over the fact that TPtB did not listen to customer AND vendor complaints about this decision, and to this day do not seem to care about how much this has hurt them. Perhaps I'm wrong, but it looks to me like the Prime neutering was the most devastating decision Rendo has made in the past 3 years that I have been coming to this site. The downward spiral started before then, but it didn't reach terminal velocity until last summer's site redesign. If Renderosity wants to get their previous sales levels back, then the first and absolutely most important thing they need to do is reinstate the previous Prime system, price, benefits, and all. They may argue that system was not sustainable. Well, I'm pretty sure this downward spiral isn't sustainable either, and the neutering of Prime is probably the biggest factor by far. It used to be that people debated whether or not Platinum Club or Prime Membership gave greater benefits for the cost of membership. Nobody disputes that PC is far superior, anymore. Even if the sales discounts remain modest compared to 1 year ago, many customers would still be drawn to the site by the old Prime.

You know not see that, but it's the honest truth. We thank you for your dedication to our site and hate to see so many members unhappy with our changes, but please remember that we decided this as a team.

I don't think anyone see this as if it were your decision alone Hope, but as already pointed out by others, you and any other admin that interact directly with the community will of course take the heat straight on. But that doesn't mean that all the concerns that members have are directed personally towards you guys, in the end its directed against Renderosity as a whole.

In part, I do get why you're upset. It was too much at one time. But, change is never fun for anyone - including me.

Change is not something that can be generalized as being negative as if all changes for some strange reason is also always bad. If a change is for something better, then its positive, it all depends on how a change is received, and clearly the majority see this change as being for the worse and therefore negative and not fun.

Just because I may not take the suggestion, does not mean I haven't heard you out or listened to you. I am a great listener, so let's talk.

That you consider yourself a great listener, might be true, im not aware of what this is based on and why you consider yourself as such and stress why it is the case? Anyone can listen unless deaf of course. So its of little value as a skill in my eyes. How someone reacts to what they hear is what matters and don't get me wrong its not a personal attack, because you might very well understand what the community is saying and want to react to it, but clearly someone at Renderosity does not want to. And that is primarily what the problem is, you keeping stressing that these changes were a team decision, yet there have been no good arguments put forward to why this change is needed?

The initial idea that this would somehow help or prevent viruses.

There have been countless of arguments and questions from the community, trying to explain you why this can and will never work. Yet there have been no counter argument from you as to why any of these arguments are not true?

You claim to have or want to take responsibility in cases where people do get a virus.

Again lots of questions and arguments have been made by the community to why this is not valid. Such as in your own disclaimer clearly stating that you do not take any responsibility. The fact that its impossible for you to remove links faster than someone can make them. To what type of responsibility are you referring to? If you claim that you have responsibility how should a member that gets a virus from a link on your site react or expect from you? or is what you mean with responsibility just as it have always been for every single website with a forum on the internet, that they of course will remove links that contains viruses, not because they are responsable for them, but because its bad for their forum and they do it as a service to their members. Yet there have been no reply to any of these questions or arguments to why they are wrong?

Freebies should be uploaded directly to Renderosity

Tons of arguments have been posted to why this is a bad solution for those creating the freebies and for Renderosity as a whole. You have put forward arguments that people could buy adwords as a solution and yes that is a suggestion, but not really valid when we are talking about free content including a lot more arguments that i wont get into here as it would take to much time. Me and lots of others have made you aware that the changes you apply, will drive traffic away from your site and not to it and thereby you are removing the primary value with freebies. Yet there have been no counter argument to why this is not true either?

So you say that you are a great listener, but as i stated its of little value, when none of the arguments and questions asked by the community seems to get any answers. If this decision was made as a team, there must have been a discussion amongst you, and at some point you have gotten convinced that this was a good idea. So my point is, that since its a team decision there must be someone at Renderosity able to answer and present counter arguments to all these claims, because how on earth did you ever get to the conclusion that this was a good idea, if no one is able to defend it?

It was not too much to quick , It was simply too much.

HOLD EVERYTHING!

https://www.renderosity.com/mod/wiki/?policies&terms

Pardon my ignorance, but I've read the Renderosity Terms Of Service three times, and there were no mention of offsite linking being prohibited The only mention of no offsite linking was in the FAQ in the Freebies forums. Making up rules on the fly in the FAQ without updating the Terms of Service may not make them legally binding. Technically you cannot enforce these rules, because they are not terms we agreed on. You may want to update your Term of Service agreements, In addition, non of the other forums have a FAQ prohibiting offside linking. There are loop holes in those forums. You may want to update those forums as well. Perhaps I'm just too tired to find them. The TOS was updated last August. If you enforce them now, you may be breaking your own TOS.

JV

I've found this post from Hope in an announcement thread "Hey everyone-

I just wanted to make you aware that I have made 2 additions to the TOS. Please view the following:

"Disturbing the peace – at Renderosity, we will not accept any members interrupting the community with any negative comments. Here are a few examples: if a member creates a thread asking for help on something, a staff member posts a thread looking for participation say a contest and a member attacks them, this behavior will not be tolerated and a warning will be given. You may disagree with members, but if it’s in a vicious manner, it will not be acceptable."

Additionally, offsite linking to other marketplaces are not allowed within the forum, gallery, or forum signatures. For example: Links to competing stores like Daz3d.com, RuntimeDNA.com, etc are not allowed. However, links to non-competing stores like Etsy.com or Ebay.com are acceptable.

If you'd like to see more, please view the link below. If you have any questions, please do let us know!

https://www.renderosity.com/mod/wiki/?policies&terms

Additionally, please view our new Community guidelines as well:

https://www.renderosity.com/new-guidelines-for-the-community-cms-18099

And, you'll find the TOS at the bottom the page:"

The new additions to the TOS is not in the official TOS itself. It took me a few hour to find that thread. The Administrators failed to add them in the official TOS, Your official TOS is dated last November. The new additions are dated 1-27-2016. Legally your TOS MUST be clear and easy to find. I suggest you update your official TOS immediately. If you are going to change the rules, please don't be sloppy about it. If someone press charges, the lawyers will have a field day.

The official TOS shows August 7, 2015 for me (bottom of page > About > Terms of Service); however, it DOES have the off-site linking rule in there. Strange that if it's been in there since last year, why just post about it in January? Could it have been updated without the date of change being reflected? I have no idea how this site's software works so I don't know if that date updates automagically, or if it's a manual edit.

The problem here is that there is wide spread dissatisfaction with the path Rendo has taken for a year or more and it has clearly lost touch with the customer base. The opinion appears to be 'we are not getting our message across' when in fact they are, it is just the membership do not like the message. I do however, feel very sorry for some members of the staff, they are human and it has to be soul destroying to have be constantly under attack. I accept none of this is personal (well except for the odd response from a staff member in the Prime forum which was condemned, and rightly so, but maybe they were having an off day) but if you are living with constant criticism it is very easy to condemn.

I exchanged quite a few emails with Hope when I was deleting my gallery, it was a personal decision hence the personal emails. My view then was she was genuine in trying to improve the situation, though I have to admit I doubted her ability to do so. Not that I questioned her skills I just think there is too much running against her. My view has not changed in recent weeks.

There is a great desire to restore the community feeling here but unfortunately this seem predominately to be from the members and very little from the company but then that has been the case for over a year or more. My personal view is that Prime should be scrapped, it is now damaged goods and no amount of changes is going to resuscitate it. I also think the team, and the powers that be, should stop what they are doing and sit down and try and create a new script and then make it public. If it is honest and makes small steps quickly while setting out a timetable for the future more difficult changes members can then gauge whether the changes are on track.

Will this happened, I very much doubt it and I suspect that vendors will begin to see that staying here is having a negative impact on their sales. At least a few of us have stopped spending here and I suspect that the number is growing. This may shock Rendo, but if there is no community then I am really not bothered who I buy my content from, in other words, if the vendors move I will start buying from my favorites again but not while they are in the Rendo Marketplace. Am I happy with this as a outcome, well yes, but I would much prefer Rendo to become a community again, and soon. I come here less and less and it is beginning to feel like watching a favorite pet suffer, there has to come a point where you say enough is enough and put everyone out of their misery.

Malysse posted at 3:12PM Sun, 21 February 2016 - #4256356

You keep going on about change 'being hard' and 'taking time to get used to', as though we are averse to change. This shows (yet again) how little you understand us. We are not averse to change. We have been begging for change for a long time in the forums. We want change. But we mean change for the better.

I couldn't have said it better.... And not only changes for the better, but REVERT changes that the community as a WHOLE so clearly objects to. So one or two members voiced an opinion, and you thought it was best to cause damn near nuclear annihilation for the rest of the community? ("Damn near" might be the wrong choice of words. Maybe total nuclear annihilation might be better suited at this point.)

I don't think it's _ just_ the off site linking that has us in an uproar. As I mentioned in a previous thread, it's the total compilation of the mess over the last year or so. This was just the icing on the cake. The straw that broke the camel's back.

However, imo, using "we're trying to protect you from viruses" is a pretty weak excuse, at best. It's the 21st century. If someone got a virus from Rendo, via Rendo, or through off site linking, THEY were not doing THEIR OWN due diligence, and NO ONE else is to blame except for them.

At this point, I am one of the torn. I have deleted my oldest freebies, and MAY be deleting the remaining as well. I haven't yet decided what road I plan to take from this point on, altho I have several options, and several ideas.

~Wolfie~

hornet3d posted at 3:26PM Sun, 21 February 2016 - #4256414

The problem here is that there is wide spread dissatisfaction with the path Rendo has taken for a year or more and it has clearly lost touch with the customer base. The opinion appears to be 'we are not getting our message across' when in fact they are, it is just the membership do not like the message. I do however, feel very sorry for some members of the staff, they are human and it has to be soul destroying to have be constantly under attack. I accept none of this is personal (well except for the odd response from a staff member in the Prime forum which was condemned, and rightly so, but maybe they were having an off day) but if you are living with constant criticism it is very easy to condemn.

I exchanged quite a few emails with Hope when I was deleting my gallery, it was a personal decision hence the personal emails. My view then was she was genuine in trying to improve the situation, though I have to admit I doubted her ability to do so. Not that I questioned her skills I just think there is too much running against her. My view has not changed in recent weeks.

There is a great desire to restore the community feeling here but unfortunately this seem predominately to be from the members and very little from the company but then that has been the case for over a year or more. My personal view is that Prime should be scrapped, it is now damaged goods and no amount of changes is going to resuscitate it. I also think the team, and the powers that be, should stop what they are doing and sit down and try and create a new script and then make it public. If it is honest and makes small steps quickly while setting out a timetable for the future more difficult changes members can then gauge whether the changes are on track.

Will this happened, I very much doubt it and I suspect that vendors will begin to see that staying here is having a negative impact on their sales. At least a few of us have stopped spending here and I suspect that the number is growing. This may shock Rendo, but if there is no community then I am really not bothered who I buy my content from, in other words, if the vendors move I will start buying from my favorites again but not while they are in the Rendo Marketplace. Am I happy with this as a outcome, well yes, but I would much prefer Rendo to become a community again, and soon. I come here less and less and it is beginning to feel like watching a favorite pet suffer, there has to come a point where you say enough is enough and put everyone out of their misery.

Well said.....

~Wolfie~

I don't think it's _ just_ the off site linking that has us in an uproar. As I mentioned in a previous thread, it's the total compilation of the mess over the last year or so. This was just the icing on the cake. The straw that broke the camel's back.

Yes, see my first post in this thread (post #3) I brought up most of those things. If people don't want to read it, then I can summarize it (it is post @4256359)

--Broken site redesigns that make Renderosity non-functional for 2~3 weeks, and buggy for months. Then exactly 1 year later, implementing ANOTHER redesign that is equally as bad.

--Incompetent and unprofessional site redesign-- incredibly basic stuff that the programmers should already know, such as creating a backup server of the old site design in case the new one goes disastrously, or that infinite scrolling, esp. of vendors, is bad. It was clear TPtB did not do any research on good site design, despite being easy to find in infinite number across the web.

--Prime neutering being the worst decision I have ever seen Rendo make. They refuse to listen to the resounding complaints from BOTH customers AND vendors about it, and actually had the audacity to blame the vendors for raising their prime prices due to no longer getting 100% royalties from Prime product sales.

--Initial asinine gallery rule (limit on allowed # of uploaded images for non-Prime members, which would have been devastating for some vendors, as the gallery is used by many for advertising.)

--Obstinance by programming staff at implementing certain features-- main example being color of the "sale" text color that is readable instead of medium-light gray on dk grey background.

--Long-standing bugs not getting fixed, such as email notifications (buggy since site redesign 1 1/2 years ago)

--Features from previous site designs being removed and not returned until months later-- searching by date function on the gallery was only restored a few weeks ago.

--Implementation of Markdown language, a super-crappy programming language, for forums

IceEmpress posted at 5:39PM Sun, 21 February 2016 - #4256592

I don't think it's _ just_ the off site linking that has us in an uproar. As I mentioned in a previous thread, it's the total compilation of the mess over the last year or so. This was just the icing on the cake. The straw that broke the camel's back.

Yes, see my first post in this thread (post #3) I brought up most of those things. If people don't want to read it, then I can summarize it (it is post 4256359)

--Broken site redesigns that make Renderosity non-functional for 2~3 weeks, and buggy for months. Then exactly 1 year later, implementing ANOTHER redesign that is equally as bad.

--Incompetent and unprofessional site redesign-- incredibly basic stuff that the programmers should already know, such as creating a backup server of the old site design in case the new one goes disastrously, or that infinite scrolling, esp. of vendors, is bad. It was clear TPtB did not do any research on good site design, despite being easy to find in infinite number across the web.

--Prime neutering being the worst decision I have ever seen Rendo make. They refuse to listen to the resounding complaints from BOTH customers AND vendors about it, and actually had the audacity to blame the vendors for raising their prime prices due to no longer getting 100% royalties from Prime product sales.

--Initial asinine gallery rule (limit on allowed # of uploaded images for non-Prime members, which would have been devastating for some vendors, as the gallery is used by many for advertising.)

--Obstinance by programming staff at implementing certain features-- main example being color of the "sale" text color that is readable instead of medium-light gray on dk grey background.

--Long-standing bugs not getting fixed, such as email notifications (buggy since site redesign 1 1/2 years ago)

--Features from previous site designs being removed and not returned until months later-- searching by date function on the gallery was only restored a few weeks ago.

--Implementation of Markdown language, a super-crappy programming language, for forums

Agree totally... 100%.

~Wolfie~

IceEmpress posted at 5:39PM Sun, 21 February 2016 - #4256592

I don't think it's _ just_ the off site linking that has us in an uproar. As I mentioned in a previous thread, it's the total compilation of the mess over the last year or so. This was just the icing on the cake. The straw that broke the camel's back.

--Prime neutering being the worst decision I have ever seen Rendo make. They refuse to listen to the resounding complaints from BOTH customers AND vendors about it, and actually had the audacity to blame the vendors for raising their prime prices due to no longer getting 100% royalties from Prime product sales. --Implementation of Markdown language, a super-crappy programming language, for forums

Agree totally... 100%.

~Wolfie~

Add my agree totally...100%.

The Prime 'neutering' (good word for it) was for me the real kicker. I've been around way, way long time and I've seen some doozie mistakes, but this one IS by far the worst. Not only the worst idea, but the way it was handled was atrocious. As has been said already, it needs to be totally restored to the way it was. I know of a lot of vendors that started losing hundreds of dollars a month because of this. Some have moved on, some have had to raise their prices to make up for it to the point that it's just another normally priced item and of no benefit to those that have paid subscriptions. Lack of month long coupons, the benefit of a product a month being delayed and even blaming that on the vendors because "we can't find anyone that wants to contribute a free product". Of course you can't, Rendo should be hiring the vendors and paying them for the product, especially now since they are receiving a cut of the profits.

So, Hope, it's not really about you, or about Jen, or about Kristi all of you who have to take the hits for the decisions because you are on the front lines. It's about the policies and the procedures that have been done that are of no benefit to the membership, and in fact in the case of Prime were actually deceitful.

The 'so you won't get a virus' doesn't fly either. We are on the internet a LOT not just here and should already be protecting ourselves. Put security measures in by all means, but don't think that we don't already have our own as well. The security measures WE worry about are the protection of our files, our identities and our credit/debit cards and paypal accounts.

The banning and silencing of a well respected vendor, after she voiced her opinion ( as was told would be welcomed) because of 'personal attacks' that only staff seemed to see certainly was the other straw that broke the camel's back.

I just don't understand this place anymore. I've been here (yes I'll say it again until you listen and show some respect for it) since before there was a store, when it was an artistic community only. It's like seeing someone bulldoze the house you grew up in and not giving a damn about the aftermath it causes.

LadyElf posted at 3:11PM Mon, 22 February 2016 - #4256725

IceEmpress posted at 5:39PM Sun, 21 February 2016 - #4256592

I don't think it's _ just_ the off site linking that has us in an uproar. As I mentioned in a previous thread, it's the total compilation of the mess over the last year or so. This was just the icing on the cake. The straw that broke the camel's back.

--Prime neutering being the worst decision I have ever seen Rendo make. They refuse to listen to the resounding complaints from BOTH customers AND vendors about it, and actually had the audacity to blame the vendors for raising their prime prices due to no longer getting 100% royalties from Prime product sales. --Implementation of Markdown language, a super-crappy programming language, for forums

Agree totally... 100%.

~Wolfie~

Add my agree totally...100%.

The Prime 'neutering' (good word for it) was for me the real kicker. I've been around way, way long time and I've seen some doozie mistakes, but this one IS by far the worst. Not only the worst idea, but the way it was handled was atrocious. As has been said already, it needs to be totally restored to the way it was. I know of a lot of vendors that started losing hundreds of dollars a month because of this. Some have moved on, some have had to raise their prices to make up for it to the point that it's just another normally priced item and of no benefit to those that have paid subscriptions. Lack of month long coupons, the benefit of a product a month being delayed and even blaming that on the vendors because "we can't find anyone that wants to contribute a free product". Of course you can't, Rendo should be hiring the vendors and paying them for the product, especially now since they are receiving a cut of the profits.

So, Hope, it's not really about you, or about Jen, or about Kristi all of you who have to take the hits for the decisions because you are on the front lines. It's about the policies and the procedures that have been done that are of no benefit to the membership, and in fact in the case of Prime were actually deceitful.

The 'so you won't get a virus' doesn't fly either. We are on the internet a LOT not just here and should already be protecting ourselves. Put security measures in by all means, but don't think that we don't already have our own as well. The security measures WE worry about are the protection of our files, our identities and our credit/debit cards and paypal accounts.

The banning and silencing of a well respected vendor, after she voiced her opinion ( as was told would be welcomed) because of 'personal attacks' that only staff seemed to see certainly was the other straw that broke the camel's back.

I just don't understand this place anymore. I've been here (yes I'll say it again until you listen and show some respect for it) since before there was a store, when it was an artistic community only. It's like seeing someone bulldoze the house you grew up in and not giving a damn about the aftermath it causes.

Here, here!

~Wolfie~

LadyElf posted at 1:58PM Mon, 22 February 2016 - #4256725

IceEmpress posted at 5:39PM Sun, 21 February 2016 - #4256592

I don't think it's _ just_ the off site linking that has us in an uproar. As I mentioned in a previous thread, it's the total compilation of the mess over the last year or so. This was just the icing on the cake. The straw that broke the camel's back.

--Prime neutering being the worst decision I have ever seen Rendo make. They refuse to listen to the resounding complaints from BOTH customers AND vendors about it, and actually had the audacity to blame the vendors for raising their prime prices due to no longer getting 100% royalties from Prime product sales. --Implementation of Markdown language, a super-crappy programming language, for forums

Agree totally... 100%.

~Wolfie~

Add my agree totally...100%.

The Prime 'neutering' (good word for it) was for me the real kicker. I've been around way, way long time and I've seen some doozie mistakes, but this one IS by far the worst. Not only the worst idea, but the way it was handled was atrocious. As has been said already, it needs to be totally restored to the way it was. I know of a lot of vendors that started losing hundreds of dollars a month because of this. Some have moved on, some have had to raise their prices to make up for it to the point that it's just another normally priced item and of no benefit to those that have paid subscriptions. Lack of month long coupons, the benefit of a product a month being delayed and even blaming that on the vendors because "we can't find anyone that wants to contribute a free product". Of course you can't, Rendo should be hiring the vendors and paying them for the product, especially now since they are receiving a cut of the profits.

So, Hope, it's not really about you, or about Jen, or about Kristi all of you who have to take the hits for the decisions because you are on the front lines. It's about the policies and the procedures that have been done that are of no benefit to the membership, and in fact in the case of Prime were actually deceitful.

The 'so you won't get a virus' doesn't fly either. We are on the internet a LOT not just here and should already be protecting ourselves. Put security measures in by all means, but don't think that we don't already have our own as well. The security measures WE worry about are the protection of our files, our identities and our credit/debit cards and paypal accounts.

The banning and silencing of a well respected vendor, after she voiced her opinion ( as was told would be welcomed) because of 'personal attacks' that only staff seemed to see certainly was the other straw that broke the camel's back.

I just don't understand this place anymore. I've been here (yes I'll say it again until you listen and show some respect for it) since before there was a store, when it was an artistic community only. It's like seeing someone bulldoze the house you grew up in and not giving a damn about the aftermath it causes.

And I agree to all above. Prime being "neutered" was what did it for me as well. I checked my account...last time I earned Render Rewards was last June...BEFORE the new Prime rolled out. Since then, I have really curbed my spending because there just aren't any good deals anymore. The coupons are poor, the products (save for a few top vendors, one whom you banned for no reason other than speaking her mind) have gotten shoddy, and the rules are turning draconian. This is not a beloved community any more. No amount of "well, we're only doing this for your own good" and cheer-leading without really listening to and working with what the community wants will bring back the old Renderosity that so many of us loved. The exodus will continue.

I have had my fingers crossed so long for this site to improve it makes typing painful. Seriously though, I see the last few weeks as a really dark time here because there are some people I have seen here for years now jumping ship. It is not a new trend, but, the fact that the trend is continuing is depressing and I am also well aware that these are the once devoted members who are taking to trouble to announce they are either leaving or becoming far less active, and why. Behind that there must be many more who do not like what Renderosity has become and have just moved on quietly.

I don't know why I should care so much, or even at all, after so long but I do. Truth is though that, despite all hope and wishes I cannot see a way back even though I desperately want to be wrong. I can't see anything the team at Renderosity can do to get people to start to put their freebies back, to start another gallery here, to start being really active in the forums (other than to complain), or change Prime into something worthwhile. Adding another forum or announcing another 'exciting' competition is not going to cut it. The bit that should really worry the company is that I cannot see how they can get members spending again at the levels they used to. I cannot prove they have lost money here but unhappy customers tend not to visit and if they don't visit, they don't spend and I see very little evidence that members/customers are happy here.

I just came back here on Dec 25, and this place is worse that it was when I left, and I thought it was atrocious then. Point is, people don't need time to get used to changes. Rendo needs to wrap their heads around the fact that people HATE those changes. And Like I said to Hope in another post, WE spend the money. If we stop spending our money here, you don't get our lovely money, and you get to enjoy being unemployed. I'm going to re-download and archive all my orders, this place is going down hard. The last time I was here, there were twice the people on line when it was slow. You can't even muster 3000 people now at peak, you're loosing vendors, your loosing freebie contributors, and you've certainly lost thousands of members.

I hate to tell you this but we just lost RuntimeDNA. They merged with Daz!!!!!! Check out their forums.

You know... it occurs to me that I've heard all these arguments before... both from site owners and community members for and against certain changes... At DAZ when they started putting in the rules about 3rd party posts etc a year or more ago. They used many of the arguments for doing so that Renderosity is now using here, and the community there used almost exactly the same arguments against making those changes as I've been seeing everyone list over and over again here.

I will say only this... I would not be where I am now as an artist or as a content provider if it had not been for people that I met here on Rendo, or there at DAZ in their forums. People that are no longer here, people that are no longer at DAZ, simply because someone somewhere decided that profit was more important that the community that got them where they are today.

Rendo was once a great place, it is now a shadow of what it once was. Daz was a great place and it too is a shadow of what it used to be. Neither got the way they have because of the community... they both got there because somewhere, someone decided that the community no longer mattered, that the sharing and free spirit of the artists that built them into the sites they both have become, was less important that making a buck on the backs of the artists that got them there.

I think it is a damned shame that the people that helped so many of us learn this craft are gone now because the changes that were being made drove them away. I think it's even worse that the changes (claimed to be in the best interest of the community) are made anyways when the very community these changes are made for says no. I think the worst of all though is that the people making the decisions think that they have anyone else (other than themselves) in mind when they go ahead with things like this in the name of "community"...

And with RDNA going to DAZ another vibrant community will most likely be lost soon too...

Honestly... it's not about making the community better... it's about profit, pure and simple... why not just admit it and get on with it... at least we'd all know where we stand...

With RDNA going Rendo needs to be as user-friendly as possible, so that we will have somewhere to post images, shop and talk. Maybe you could take on some of the format and the ideas RDNA had (Deep Freeze, anyone?) and regain some of the members you've lost.

PilotHigh posted at 9:53AM Wed, 24 February 2016 - #4256963

I hate to tell you this but we just lost RuntimeDNA. They merged with Daz!!!!!! Check out their forums.

Perhaps that is what Renderosity is hoping for.

Daz was a great place and it too is a shadow of what it used to be. Neither got the way they have because of the community... they both got there because somewhere, someone decided that the community no longer mattered, that the sharing and free spirit of the artists that built them into the sites they both have become, was less important that making a buck on the backs of the artists that got them there.

Actually, DAZ has all but flat out said that the community on DAZ is irrelevant (their words were more along the line of that complaints and trends on the forums are the opposite of sales, and that the overwhelming majority of their customers never post on the forums and probably never even visit them)

Staff was as shocked as everyone else about the Merger. However, we DO care about our forums & community. You can vent, but we ask that it is done in a constructive way without bashing, flaming, & certainly without personal attacks on staff. We, as staff, must enforce rules even if we don't agree with them & we have feelings just like everyone else. We are on the front lines but no one should be shooting the messenger. So please, be kind to one another.

cschell posted at 2:30PM Wed, 24 February 2016 - #4257031

Honestly... it's not about making the community better... it's about profit, pure and simple... why not just admit it and get on with it... at least we'd all know where we stand...

Well it costs money to run such a site, and if the profits are too small the site suffers. If they had huge profits like things were before, then why change them?

Maybe the big sales and huge discounts before the changes ran them down economically so that they had to make these changes, but a bad economy is something companies rarely want to admit publicly. If that's correct I think it would be better for a company like this that they admitted it, then people would probably be less hostile and more understanding, and maybe even helpful.

Besides, it also seems to be "about the money" for many customers - lower prices, bigger discounts, more site features etc..

We are on the front lines but no one should be shooting the messenger. So please, be kind to one another.

People shoot some of the messengers because they are voicing enthusiastic support for and defending the policies that they hate-- in addition to showing a lack of understanding as to what it is that has people upset and why such as blaming our displeasure at the freebie thing as "finding change difficult" and in regards to the last two site redesigns that "it was too much change at once for us to handle" In addition to several forum admins stating that they (all of the admins) were accomplices (to TPtB) to this new rule about links.
Somehow I find it had to believe that UVDan was very supportive or enthusiastic about it, though (and I have yet to see him voice any support of it on the forums)

Well it costs money to run such a site, and if the profits are too small the site suffers. If they had huge profits like things were before, then why change them?

Maybe the big sales and huge discounts before the changes ran them down economically so that they had to make these changes, but a bad economy is something companies rarely want to admit publicly. If that's correct I think it would be better for a company like this that they admitted it, then people would probably be less hostile and more understanding, and maybe even helpful.

Except that someone mentioned in this or another thread that vendors have been losing sales ever since the Prime change (esp. since they no longer get 100% royalties for prime products sold like they did before the last redesign) The problem is that even if the big sales and discounts was unsustainable, what they are doing now is clearly even less sustainable than that.

Negativity never does any good. Not a single person deserves to be mistreated under ANY circumstances. Be angry at the change all you want but taking it out on others will not be tolerated.

I should have specified that I was merely explaining why people are taking it out on the admins. Angry at the change? How about angry at those responsible for the change. Most of my anger is towards TPtB rather than the admins, but there is one particular admin that I am quite angry with, and it has to do with the fact that this admin voices ONLY approval of the changes, zero condemnation of them, zero "personall I do not agree with X decision", along with blaming our dissatisfaction with the no linking AND the last two site redesigns on difficultly with the "sudden change", as though we are all children.

IceEmpress posted at 3:07PM Wed, 24 February 2016 - #4257095

Well it costs money to run such a site, and if the profits are too small the site suffers. If they had huge profits like things were before, then why change them?

Maybe the big sales and huge discounts before the changes ran them down economically so that they had to make these changes, but a bad economy is something companies rarely want to admit publicly. If that's correct I think it would be better for a company like this that they admitted it, then people would probably be less hostile and more understanding, and maybe even helpful.

Except that someone mentioned in this or another thread that vendors have been losing sales ever since the Prime change (esp. since they no longer get 100% royalties for prime products sold like they did before the last redesign) The problem is that even if the big sales and discounts was unsustainable, what they are doing now is clearly even less sustainable than that.

Maybe, but the question is for what reasons it's less sustainable. Maybe people got used to those huge discounts and then when Rendo have to increase their profits and change Prime conditions to make ends meet, people refuse to pay what may actually be a fair price (or even more than fair, just check the prices at e.g. turbosquid...)? I did a calculation of my old Prime membership, it showed that in total I got over 70% discount on my Prime purchases. And most other stuff I've bought has been 30-60% off.

As for site design they may have made some bad decisions yes, that happens, but the new "must work on all devices" demand can make it extremely complex to design a site that both fulfills that demand and is good looking and well functioning at the same time. And as I understand it the latest design was mainly because of requirements from google, which, if they hadn't made them would make them rank lower in searches. That's just google trying to maximize their profits, at the expense of smaller companies who have to spend a lot of money in constantly keeping their sites up to date with google's SEO requirements. So you can blame google and the stupid invention called competition for a lot of the things people are complaining about here (like no linking to other sites, ads everywhere, etc..).

IceEmpress posted at 11:37AM Wed, 24 February 2016 - #4257056

Daz was a great place and it too is a shadow of what it used to be. Neither got the way they have because of the community... they both got there because somewhere, someone decided that the community no longer mattered, that the sharing and free spirit of the artists that built them into the sites they both have become, was less important that making a buck on the backs of the artists that got them there.

Actually, DAZ has all but flat out said that the community on DAZ is irrelevant (their words were more along the line of that complaints and trends on the forums are the opposite of sales, and that the overwhelming majority of their customers never post on the forums and probably never even visit them)

That must have happened after I left DAZ then...I quit going there after things started going down hill and 3rd party content providers got blamed for it as scape-goats...

hornet3d posted at 11:58AM Wed, 24 February 2016 - #4257048

PilotHigh posted at 9:53AM Wed, 24 February 2016 - #4256963

I hate to tell you this but we just lost RuntimeDNA. They merged with Daz!!!!!! Check out their forums.

Perhaps that is what Renderosity is hoping for.

I've been wondering about that ever since the "Please no DRM" thread got locked after two posts.

And now we have a convenient distraction from Renderosity's most recent decision... No, I am not suggesting conspiracy theories, simply that this is, sadly, likely to distract people from their anger over the no-offsite linking rule.

IceEmpress posted at 10:01AM Thu, 25 February 2016 - #4257223

And now we have a convenient distraction from Renderosity's most recent decision... No, I am not suggesting conspiracy theories, simply that this is, sadly, likely to distract people from their anger over the no-offsite linking rule.

Helps if i quote you in the right forum LOL I don't think the issue goes away and we realise members are upset about the changes but as with the latest developments with RDNA things do change and it affects individuals differently. What I have been doing is going through all these comments and just making sure that the members are not believing something that is based on the wrong info. The changes have been made and some are obviously unpopular but I am seeking clarification on a few points to ensure that when the members do have an opinion or object it is not under the wrong impression as under the circumstances this would be unhelpful.

or even more than fair, just check the prices at e.g. turbosquid...)?

Please do not use Turbosquid and CGTrader as comparisons. Models on those sites are expensive because when you buy a model, you are also buying a commercial license, unlike at any of the DAZ/Poser sites. If you want a good comparison, look at the prices for 'Extended License' products here on Rendo.

As for site design they may have made some bad decisions yes, that happens, but the new "must work on all devices" demand can make it extremely complex to design a site that both fulfills that demand and is good looking and well functioning at the same time.

RDNA, Hivewire, and DAZ do not have that same problem. Or is Hivewire not an "all devices" site?

That's just google trying to maximize their profits, at the expense of smaller companies who have to spend a lot of money in constantly keeping their sites up to date with google's SEO requirements.

Yes, I'm well aware of that. Problem is that people here have said that Rendo doesn't work very well on ANY device.

IceEmpress posted at 10:43AM Thu, 25 February 2016 - #4257223

And now we have a convenient distraction from Renderosity's most recent decision... No, I am not suggesting conspiracy theories, simply that this is, sadly, likely to distract people from their anger over the no-offsite linking rule.

Your right, it is a distraction and it is sad news but I wouldn't buy from Rendersosity under the present situation. If it was the only place left I would either learn to make my own content of find another hobby.