To be quite honest:

I still use V4 (in it's Sasha-16 form).

• I know this figure in and out. I know which dials do what, and I know the caveats when making custom morphs for a character.
• I know how to save those custom morphs as a character injection. And Sasha-16 bends ways better than even Genesis (with knees that look like an elbow. and elbows that look like a bent maccheroni.
• By default Sasha-16 comes with a joint centres injection that makes clothing her with non-WM V4 clothes a snap. You don't even have to use the Fitting Room.
• Plus she comes with a truckload of other useful tools.

For me, that's all I need. So why learn another figure? Everything I need can be done, and as someone said before, there's a "metric ton of content available for V4", including textures, textures, and more textures.

Most "characters" I have, I only bought for the sake of getting the textures.

And with Poser's "Magic Wand" called the "Morph Brush" I can do anything I want to create custom characters and morphs. Among other features, this tool alone is the one that stops me from migrating to the competition!!

Poser has so many great features that are known and used by so few people.

Well then:

• I have my favourite 3D Program
• I have my favourite figure
• I have enough skills accumulated to achieve whatever I want

So WHY should use another figure (let alone another program)?

regards,

Peter

Kyle 1.5. Incredibly versatile beyond his simple toon appearance, with a lot under the hood if you want to work with it. Hardly any support, but I've managed to put together about 30 gigs of stuff, thanks to WW.

ssgbryan posted at 11:28AM Sun, 15 March 2020 - #4383245

hornet3d posted at 1:39PM Wed, 11 March 2020 - #4383203

I am not really surprised but it does make me wonder about all the clamour there is for a new figure when there is a new version of Poser being developed. If lots of people are not using the new figures perhaps the development time would be better spent on adding new features to Poser and improving the existing ones. If someone is still using V4 because there is a vast amount of clothing for her, which there is, that suggests that she is mainly used clothed. If that is the case better bending is not that big a deal which is what most new figures developed concentrated on.

How many figures you use is very dependant on what you use Poser for, in my case I use it mainly for storytelling so the main character remains the same. As the heroine is Dawn based that is what I use the most, I do use other figures but only in the role of 'extras' so that might be V4, V3 or even Scarlett based. I used to use V4 as my go to figure but I also love doing portraits and I found it easier to create more convincing expressions with Dawn than with V4. Portraits do not generally need a massive wardrobe so the fact V4 has some many clothes is not really a major plus.

I use Poser for story telling - mine has an ensemble cast, so I need a lot of folks that don't look like they are closely related.

We get new characters because there is a contingent of folks that want something that bends better than V4 (before all of it's fixes).

The problem is that vendor support for new figures is, to be charitable, spotty. Part of this is vendor intransigence i.e. I only make what I am personally interested in. The other is Poser's ability to add new features to any mesh the end user wants to use.

Any legacy figure can have newer tech added to it. We also have the ability to retrofit any figure asset to whichever figure catches our fancy. If I am using LaFemme or such, it only takes a couple of minutes to convert that V4 outfit for her use. Get LaFemme, or Pauline, or Dawn, or whoever, go over to DAZ, join Platinum Club and get an incredible wardrobe @$1.99 an outfit. Come to 'Rosity, join prime, rinse, lather, repeat. That doesn't leave a lot of money for vendors making newer content. That newer content has to be better than what is already available. And most of it isn't (Sturgeon's Law).

Which means I can spend that money on something else, rather than buying an asset made specifically for that figure - which is a good thing for the end user, not so much for the vendor. If the vendors had gotten behind Dawn, we would all be saying Vicky who? But that is water over the bridge.

I take your point but there seems to be little incentive for vendors to move on if users are still using V4 and M4. I can also see the need for a variety of figures but it seems many users seem quite set in their ways. Most my hobby expenditure goes on props and Superfly materials these days but if I do buy clothes it is always for items made for Dawn specifically I never buy anything for V4 these days even though I know I can convert it easily.

ssgbryan posted at 9:50AM Sun, 15 March 2020 - #4383245

hornet3d posted at 1:39PM Wed, 11 March 2020 - #4383203

I am not really surprised but it does make me wonder about all the clamour there is for a new figure when there is a new version of Poser being developed. If lots of people are not using the new figures perhaps the development time would be better spent on adding new features to Poser and improving the existing ones. If someone is still using V4 because there is a vast amount of clothing for her, which there is, that suggests that she is mainly used clothed. If that is the case better bending is not that big a deal which is what most new figures developed concentrated on.

How many figures you use is very dependant on what you use Poser for, in my case I use it mainly for storytelling so the main character remains the same. As the heroine is Dawn based that is what I use the most, I do use other figures but only in the role of 'extras' so that might be V4, V3 or even Scarlett based. I used to use V4 as my go to figure but I also love doing portraits and I found it easier to create more convincing expressions with Dawn than with V4. Portraits do not generally need a massive wardrobe so the fact V4 has some many clothes is not really a major plus.

I use Poser for story telling - mine has an ensemble cast, so I need a lot of folks that don't look like they are closely related.

We get new characters because there is a contingent of folks that want something that bends better than V4 (before all of it's fixes).

The problem is that vendor support for new figures is, to be charitable, spotty. Part of this is vendor intransigence i.e. I only make what I am personally interested in. The other is Poser's ability to add new features to any mesh the end user wants to use.

Any legacy figure can have newer tech added to it. We also have the ability to retrofit any figure asset to whichever figure catches our fancy. If I am using LaFemme or such, it only takes a couple of minutes to convert that V4 outfit for her use. Get LaFemme, or Pauline, or Dawn, or whoever, go over to DAZ, join Platinum Club and get an incredible wardrobe @$1.99 an outfit. Come to 'Rosity, join prime, rinse, lather, repeat. That doesn't leave a lot of money for vendors making newer content. That newer content has to be better than what is already available. And most of it isn't (Sturgeon's Law).

I'm not challenging what you said, just asking for clarification. Just what do you think is missing or needed to make the new content better?

I'd like a response from anyone else who agrees with that accessment.

It sounds like the vendors and customers are working together pretty well to maintain stability.

Silicon Valley is locked into the Github Syndrome, requiring revisions of everything every millisecond. That's good for monopoly vendors who can force everyone else to move along, but it's not good for people who want to GET WORK DONE with the product.

Work doesn't have to be paid work; it can be unpaid artistic work. Anyone who is trying to do real work NEEDS a stable set of tools and supplies. If you follow Github you're spending ALL your time on revising your workflow and reorganizing your runtimes and adapting to the new products. You're spending NO time on actual work.

Content that is mesh based, so hair, wearables and props, all start with a mesh, made in whatever modeller. From there the decision to make it a store product is a commercial one. How much time will it take and how much nett revenue will it bring?

What is missing is means to speed up or circumvent the steps that take the most working time to come from mesh to product in the store. Both investment and nett revenue are stochastic variables so one looks at expectations.

Expected revenue is always a guess, driven by factors outside the control of the vendor. If your launch campaign is drowned into someone else's, you know better for next time. This is commercial life, of course, but a parameter that becomes very important on the small scale most people work on. Stores could work on reducing uncertainty of individual income through grouping of products.

Expected work is much affected by perception of reliability of the tools. If creators can rely on 'copy joint setup from...' to provide a proper result they are more likely to take the plunge than when they know they will have to spend hours and hours to brush away the ripples left by the process.

Would creators have a tool that in an overnight process can reliably optimize vertex weights to match animation bending with results from dynamic simulations and get the errors as a JCM, that would drastically reduce the time they need to spend on rigging. Cost wouldn't be hours of work but an odd kWh of electrictric power.

ockham posted at 4:08PM Sun, 15 March 2020 - #4383620

It sounds like the vendors and customers are working together pretty well to maintain stability.

Silicon Valley is locked into the Github Syndrome, requiring revisions of everything every millisecond. That's good for monopoly vendors who can force everyone else to move along, but it's not good for people who want to GET WORK DONE with the product.

Work doesn't have to be paid work; it can be unpaid artistic work. Anyone who is trying to do real work NEEDS a stable set of tools and supplies. If you follow Github you're spending ALL your time on revising your workflow and reorganizing your runtimes and adapting to the new products. You're spending NO time on actual work.

If, like me, you have a heroine or other major character in a story moving to a new figure is not a simple task as you have to go back and redo the renders to make the character have some consistency throughout the story. To undertake such a task there needs to be significant gains from making such a change to make the investment in time worthwhile. I have only done a major character change once and that was from V4WM to Dawn SE and it was a lot of work. I did not do the change with the launch of Dawn because my character was set up to be more mature than the average Poser doll and there were no such textures around for Dawn and the morphs were limited. It was only when Dawn SE was launched that both the textures and the morph situation had improved enough for me to make the jump. As I do not do nudes the better bending was not the main gain for me it was the improvement and ease with which more realistic expressions could be created that was the big gain for me.

I think the other point is that it takes quite a while to understand a figure well enough to get the best out of the figure, another reason why I understand why so many have stuck with V4. It must be really hard to gain that level of understanding if you are jumping ship each time a new figures is created.

At this point reading this thread it seems any effort i make now or in the future is useless. I don't really think I could ever make a living at this but it would be nice to offset the cost of the software needed, but it seems to me reading this that everyone is settled and happy with the status quo to the point that noting new for Poser is worth the effort involved in it's creation.

Am I true in this belief? would it be better just to let Poser content die out to the point where only approximately 15 year old figures are available to use in 10-15 year old technology? And that everything needed for those old figures and old technology has already been made so any attempt to add to it is useless?

Please let me know if what I am reading this correctly so I can move along now and now waste any more time effort and yes, money on this area of 3D.

My family will thank you

Humm another thought just occurred to me that the point of this thread may be exactly to frighten of present and future content creators form Poser and it's newer figure.. But that sounds too much like conspiracy theory...

Letterworks posted at 3:41PM Sun, 15 March 2020 - #4383648

Humm another thought just occurred to me that the point of this thread may be exactly to frighten of present and future content creators form Poser and it's newer figure.. But that sounds too much like conspiracy theory...

Seriously? You think I started this thread, not knowing the outcome by the way, to frighten people into not using Poser anymore?

Not seriously, but as I said if is a good conspiracy theory right?

Not if you're the one it's about.

Letterworks posted at 5:51PM Sun, 15 March 2020 - #4383646

At this point reading this thread it seems any effort i make now or in the future is useless. I don't really think I could ever make a living at this but it would be nice to offset the cost of the software needed, but it seems to me reading this that everyone is settled and happy with the status quo to the point that noting new for Poser is worth the effort involved in it's creation.

Am I true in this belief? would it be better just to let Poser content die out to the point where only approximately 15 year old figures are available to use in 10-15 year old technology? And that everything needed for those old figures and old technology has already been made so any attempt to add to it is useless?

Please let me know if what I am reading this correctly so I can move along now and now waste any more time effort and yes, money on this area of 3D.

My family will thank you

Sometimes "new technology" isnt worth the spit it takes to hurl. Poser has introduced several new features that hardly anyone uses — not because there isnt call for them but because the learning curve is steeper than your usual hobbyist artist wants to handle... and let's get real, shall we? Poser and Studio both are hobbyist programs. If you choose to use either for anything beyond that point, you have to put in some considerable time and effort, just as you would with any art form.

But I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. There are several programs out there with considerable years on them — Photoshop and Illustrator leap to mind — and no one's complaining about those. They havent really changed the basics of either since the late 80s... does that make them something to avoid?

As for the grief about M4 and V4... they're solid mesh designs, capable of a lot more than what most people give them. Unlike the incessant parade of "characters" from that other place, they're adaptable if you just look under the hood a bit. So people still make things for them and you seem to think that's not worth their time? Seriously? Sorry, but that's sounding awfully presumptuous. I'd much rather use a character mesh with a proven track record than have to rebuild my runtime every two or three months when a new "character" is introduced that will have a limited shelf life.

As for Poser's flagship characters, yeah, not so great out of the box. But then look what the community has done with them, just as V4 was pretty dreadful until the community rose to the challenge. I may my own issues about how the launch of L'Homme was handled, but seeing what people are creating for it — and La Femme — has been pretty amazing. Maybe that's not good enough for you? Sorry. We'll all try harder in the future to make you happy.

Just as an example of what's possible with these ancient meshes, my goto, as I noted above, is Kyle 1.5. It's another ten-year-old mesh — maybe more, actually. But if you work with it, just using what Redspark put in there, this is what you can get.

You just have to put in the work to find it. Not everything needs to be recreated from Square Zero when we havent really even examined what our current stuff is capable of.

I find the fact that a lot of us use multiple figures very interesting. But not really surprising.

A lot of figures have been released for Poser over the past two decades. Naturally, some of the legacy figures attracted our attention and we stuck with them. For me, I really like Victoria 3. I know her mesh is not very good. But, I still like her and use her in my renders (EZ-Skin and the Morph Brush help).

I see that many people use Victoria 4 because of the amount of quality content. I use her for the same reason. The size of Victoria 4's closet would make Imelda Marcos jealous.

La Femme, Dawn, and Project Evolution impressed me. They are wonderful additions to the Poser family. I released a comic that used Dawn, Victoria 4, and Genesis 3. And, I'm currently working on a scene with Victoria 4, La Femme, Aiko 3, and Victoria 2.

My Go To Figures

• Victoria 4
• Dawn
• La Femme
• Victoria 3
• Genesis 2
• Genesis 3/8
• Victoria 2
• Stephanie Petite 3
• Aiko 3
• Stephanie 1
• Sydney
• Alyson 2/Anastasia
• Terai Yuki

M4 - because I have so much content for him (and Genesis doesn't really work in Poser)

Letterworks posted at 12:14PM Mon, 16 March 2020 - #4383646

At this point reading this thread it seems any effort i make now or in the future is useless. I don't really think I could ever make a living at this but it would be nice to offset the cost of the software needed, but it seems to me reading this that everyone is settled and happy with the status quo to the point that noting new for Poser is worth the effort involved in it's creation.

Am I true in this belief? would it be better just to let Poser content die out to the point where only approximately 15 year old figures are available to use in 10-15 year old technology? And that everything needed for those old figures and old technology has already been made so any attempt to add to it is useless?

Please let me know if what I am reading this correctly so I can move along now and now waste any more time effort and yes, money on this area of 3D.

My family will thank you

I think the answer to your question depends very much on what it is that you are looking to create. Despite playing with Daz and Poser for over twenty years (the last fifteen or so Poser only) I still spend far more on my hobby each month than a really should. Like many I have masses of content for V4 which was my go to figure for more than have the time I have been playing and now use Dawn. So if you make some new clothes for V4 I am not going to by it but the same is true if you create yet another bikini for Dawn I am not buying that either. Most of my expenditure goes on props these days but I will spend a fair amount of money for the right clothing for Dawn. These is not a great deal of content for Dawn and even less good quality fantasy or sci-fi which is the type of renders I normally generate. I accept that this is a niche market so I will happily spend $30 dollars or more if the clothes are either very special or there is enough options in the outfit to make it a kit bashing resource. Of course that is just me and others will have very different needs but it proves that there is still a market for Poser content but you need to do you research and decide what will sell and at what price. If it is yet another piece of skimp wear then it will have to be low cost because there is plenty of competition no matter which figure is aimed at. Looking at the galleries might give you an idea of what is missing but don't forget the vast majority of Poser users do not upload the renders so galleries are not a massive help.

You don't have to be sensational either, there is plenty of skimp wear for most figures but may have few options for what I would regard as everyday clothes. A lot of the props I buy today are everyday, picture frames, tables, chairs, mirrors and clocks have been some of my recent purchases. I use them to populate a room to make it look a little more realistic but I doubt anyone just rendering pin ups in Poser would bother as all many need is a couple of walls to a room and possible a bed close.

Letterworks posted at 9:07AM Mon, 16 March 2020 - #4383646

At this point reading this thread it seems any effort i make now or in the future is useless. I don't really think I could ever make a living at this but it would be nice to offset the cost of the software needed, but it seems to me reading this that everyone is settled and happy with the status quo to the point that noting new for Poser is worth the effort involved in it's creation.

Am I true in this belief? would it be better just to let Poser content die out to the point where only approximately 15 year old figures are available to use in 10-15 year old technology? And that everything needed for those old figures and old technology has already been made so any attempt to add to it is useless?

Please let me know if what I am reading this correctly so I can move along now and now waste any more time effort and yes, money on this area of 3D.

My family will thank you

If your core program has been slow to innovate then the content created for it. will stagnate as well.

What are the major new features in poser 11 that would be considered paradigm shifting in terms of making the program more attractive to vendors as a content development platform. ?.

When you see people saying that they are using this or that 12+ year old figure that indicates that the core program has not truly innovated in more than a Decade or the old content would not be compatible ,in any worthwhile fashion with the most recent features of the program.

And crowdsourcing figure development only leads to LESS UNIFORM STANDARDS for any potential new vendors to follow as the one person who made their own exotic figure is the single point of failure and when they leave,die ,quit the figure typically dies with them.?

wolf359 posted at 2:50PM Mon, 16 March 2020 - #4383731

Letterworks posted at 9:07AM Mon, 16 March 2020 - #4383646

At this point reading this thread it seems any effort i make now or in the future is useless. I don't really think I could ever make a living at this but it would be nice to offset the cost of the software needed, but it seems to me reading this that everyone is settled and happy with the status quo to the point that noting new for Poser is worth the effort involved in it's creation.

Am I true in this belief? would it be better just to let Poser content die out to the point where only approximately 15 year old figures are available to use in 10-15 year old technology? And that everything needed for those old figures and old technology has already been made so any attempt to add to it is useless?

Please let me know if what I am reading this correctly so I can move along now and now waste any more time effort and yes, money on this area of 3D.

My family will thank you

If your core program has been slow to innovate then the content created for it. will stagnate as well.

What are the major new features in poser 11 that would be considered paradigm shifting in terms of making the program more attractive to vendors as a content development platform. ?.

When you see people saying that they are using this or that 12+ year old figure that indicates that the core program has not truly innovated in more than a Decade or the old content would not be compatible ,in any worthwhile fashion with the most recent features of the program.

And crowdsourcing figure development only leads to LESS UNIFORM STANDARDS for any potential new vendors to follow as the one person who made their own exotic figure is the single point of failure and when they leave,die ,quit the figure typically dies with them.?

While I accept a lot of what you say I am not sure adding a new figure every one or two years is the answer either, sure it gives vendors the chance to sell but usually that is just a rehash of the same content to fit the new X2 figure that was created for X1. I also wonder just what new features are wanted/needed by what is in the main a group of hobbyists. For me the main changes in Poser that I felt was worthwhile was the move to a 64bit program, the introduction of Sub Surface Scattering and addition of Superfly as a render engine as well as the improvement in the morph brush.

I use Paint Shop Pro for both my photography and post work but I only ever upgrade every second or third release because the extra features do not justify, for me at least, the added expense.

Well, my latest Poser render has Aiko 3, Kids 4, V4, Kelvin G2 and Roxie ...

wolf359 posted at 11:37AM Wed, 18 March 2020 - #4383731

If your core program has been slow to innovate then the content created for it. will stagnate as well.

What are the major new features in poser 11 that would be considered paradigm shifting in terms of making the program more attractive to vendors as a content development platform. ?.

When you see people saying that they are using this or that 12+ year old figure that indicates that the core program has not truly innovated in more than a Decade or the old content would not be compatible ,in any worthwhile fashion with the most recent features of the program.

And crowdsourcing figure development only leads to LESS UNIFORM STANDARDS for any potential new vendors to follow as the one person who made their own exotic figure is the single point of failure and when they leave,die ,quit the figure typically dies with them.?

To quote Dekard Cain: Stay a while and listen......

"UNIFORM STANDARDS" are like communism - a red herring.

Many vendors DO NOT FOLLOW CURRENT STANDARDS THAT HAVE EXISTED FOR OVER A DECADE. How do you propose to get vendors to follow new ones?

Many vendors refuse to learn any feature that was added to Poser after they bought their copy - full stop. Ever since the release of Poser 9, all I have heard is _ I don't have time to learn new features._ .

These are the same folks that don't buy new copies of Poser.

These are the same folks that are still making material .pp2s for Poser 11.

These are the same folks that are still runningalloftheirfilenamestogether because they apparently are still using Windows/286.

These are the same folks that hide their products in Ego folders, making it harder to use their products.

These are the same folks that use numbers in the place of colors, forcing the enduser to load each one to see what it looks like.

These are the same folks that can't name their products consistently throughout a single product, much less any texture add-on product.

These are the same folks that make thumbnails that don't provide the end user a clue to the product - they are creative however.

These are the same folks that were aggressively unwilling to make content for any post-V4 figure. SM addressed this by adding the fitting room to Poser, effectively killing the clothing market for these same mediocre vendors.

At the end of the day, these folks want a way-back machine so they can stay in October 2007. And have a user base stuck with Poser 6.

End users still use V4 because it has a metric butt ton of content made for it and most of it is better made than what is being made for post-V4 figures. Poser innovations are in the software - and they are legion. With Poser, we can add innovations like weight mapping, subdivision, and control chips to control facial expressions (or muscles) to any legacy figure we choose to use. No need to waste money on a new figure, if it doesn't float your boat.

But what if you have a new figure that does float your boat - like, I don't know, how about La Femme? The vendors don't support it, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. And don't get me started on Le Homme, poor b****** doesn't even have a pair of shoes. (In the examples below, replace V4 with M4/M3/D3/Simon to see how a male product is supported.)

Poser to the rescue:

The innovation of the Cloth room means that the collection of Dynamic clothing you bought for V3 & V4 will easily fit La Femme.

The Innovation of the Fitting room means that the hundreds of outfits available for $1.99 at Daz or $3.50 at 'Rosity are available for La Femme. Hooray! La Femme has a wardrobe. And unless the product is really good, I am probably not buying any original clothing made for her - unless it is really good of course, then V4 can wear it too.

The innovation of the Dials to Single Morph command means that La Femme just became a LOT less memory intensive.

The innovation of Copy Morphs From command means that you can put that FBM you just created into your conforming clothing and it is a lot less memory intensive - especially if you delete the character morphs that aren't being used - each unused morph takes about 1Mb of memory, btw.

The innovation of the Merge Figure command means that I can add an outfit to La Femme and merge them into a single .OBJ. So La Femme is now wearing the V4 Courageous outfit with Star Trek TOS Textures. I can easily slot her characters into my Star Trek stories, should I need yet another instantly forgettable early 20's Caucasian that looks exactly like it's V4 predecessor. (See what I did there?)

The innovation of the Reduce Polygon command means that I can further shrink the La Femme's memory foot print, if necessary

On a wider scale....

The innovation of the Add-in Framework means that I can pull in DS native content (via DSON importer), update legacy texture sets (via EZ-Skin), unfubar material .pp2s (via Batch Material Convert), unfubar props (via Geometry Stripper), unfubar cr2s (via Cr2 Editor), Import FBX models, (very useful when you need furniture) etc.

Let me give you a 2nd order example.......

The Genesis 8 figure has facial bones. This is implemented in the base mesh - it can not be retro-fitted into Genesis 3 or earlier. Poser uses control chips, which will do the exact same thing (and then a whole lot more - just like every other feature that is common to both programs).

I can (and have) added control chips to my Genesis 3 figures that I use in Poser. All it cost me was a little bit of my time; in my case, less than 1 hour (Because I RTFM.) - now all of my characters have them - I added them in a single afternoon to every base mesh I own. All of my figures have the same expressiveness you can see in Project Evolution (I put my control chips in the exact same places, again no real need to reinvent the wheel.)

Poser 11 Pro isn't the one you vaguely remember, five or six iterations back.

This week? My little blob model who is soon to be remodeled, spiffied up, and rigged.

Also really like Akatora's free Decoco and Deco figures (plans to shine them up too), sadly they are only available on the internet archive now. They're redistributable ;)...

https://web.archive.org/web/20161125024925/http://members3.jcom.home.ne.jp:80/mowais/freestuff/freestuff.html

Oh yeah, shout out to Dodger's free Orc figure (an old school first edition D&D type orc)... love it.

http://www.threednd.com/orc.html

EldritchCellar posted at 7:21PM Wed, 18 March 2020 - #4383966

This week? My little blob model who is soon to be remodeled, spiffied up, and rigged.

Also really like Akatora's free Decoco and Deco figures (plans to shine them up too), sadly they are only available on the internet archive now. They're redistributable ;)...

https://web.archive.org/web/20161125024925/http://members3.jcom.home.ne.jp:80/mowais/freestuff/freestuff.html

Oh yeah, shout out to Dodger's free Orc figure (an old school first edition D&D type orc)... love it.

http://www.threednd.com/orc.html ............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Decoco and Deco figures, Never seen nor heard of those. I just DL them and already rendered them , nice.

thanks

CHK2033 posted at 8:56PM Wed, 18 March 2020 - #4383973

EldritchCellar posted at 7:21PM Wed, 18 March 2020 - #4383966

This week? My little blob model who is soon to be remodeled, spiffied up, and rigged.

Also really like Akatora's free Decoco and Deco figures (plans to shine them up too), sadly they are only available on the internet archive now. They're redistributable ;)...

https://web.archive.org/web/20161125024925/http://members3.jcom.home.ne.jp:80/mowais/freestuff/freestuff.html

Oh yeah, shout out to Dodger's free Orc figure (an old school first edition D&D type orc)... love it.

http://www.threednd.com/orc.html ............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Decoco and Deco figures, Never seen nor heard of those. I just DL them and already rendered them , nice.

thanks

Word of caution 'bout Deco and Decoco, if my memory serves me correctly the rigging on one or both of those is asymmetrical. I recall it was an easy fix in the setup room. More problematic are some unwelded verts, isolated verts, and a couple of other problems with Decoco. A few years ago I created a fixed version, as a personal project, and I remember that it was a chore to fix. Luckily there are no body morphs in Decoco to break by altering her geometry. Not sure how the unfixed model will render with unimesh and subdiv, I'll have to check. Deco seems to Subdiv fine... They both are begging for re-weighting. Anyway, other than those problems, those figures have some of my favorite modeling of facial features in anime figures, reminds me a bit of Satoshi Kon types (Perfect Blue etc). Unfortunately not as much support as say Kururu or Sera. Glad you like them!

EldritchCellar posted at 12:52AM Thu, 19 March 2020 - #4383975

Word of caution 'bout Deco and Decoco, if my memory serves me correctly the rigging on one or both of those is asymmetrical. I recall it was an easy fix in the setup room. More problematic are some unwelded verts, isolated verts, and a couple of other problems with Decoco. A few years ago I created a fixed version, as a personal project, and I remember that it was a chore to fix. Luckily there are no body morphs in Decoco to break by altering her geometry. Not sure how the unfixed model will render with unimesh and subdiv, I'll have to check. Deco seems to Subdiv fine... They both are begging for re-weighting. Anyway, other than those problems, those figures have some of my favorite modeling of facial features in anime figures, reminds me a bit of Satoshi Kon types (Perfect Blue etc). Unfortunately not as much support as say Kururu or Sera. Glad you like them!

https://poserdazfreebies.miraheze.org/wiki/Deco

https://poserdazfreebies.miraheze.org/wiki/Decoco

V4 and M4.

I'm still on Poser 2014 BTW.

V4, and using P10 myself. V4 has such versatility, and if Shane ever finishes his couple, then I might be willing to switch figures AND my Poser version...

V4 Sasha-16 Jessi/Sydney/Olivia/Miki 2 La Femme P6 Jessi/Miki 1020 Alyson 1/2 Pauline Miki 3/4 Antonia

For more "realistic" adult females, my go-to is V4 S-16 (aka Sasha). Karina has made the figure incredibly easy to use, and I have more morphs, skin textures, apparel, and hair for her than I'll ever need. Plus, I just like her better than my other options.

If she needs company, I use M4 and/or K4.

For more "fantasy" figures, my go-to's are Mavka and Nursoda's people (esp. Vila, Fehn, Telka, Aina, and Hein, but I love them all!) I also really like Aiko3, Maisie, and Star but haven't had as much occasion to use them.

When I first got into Poser, it was all about Cookie! And, to a lesser extent, Krystal, Koshini, Ichiro, and, of course, Chip.

I have more than 20 human figures in my runtime, not counting Nursoda's people or the ones that come with Poser, so when I say that V4/Sasha is my favorite, it's not for lack of trying others!

hornet3d posted at 7:52PM Tue, 24 March 2020 - #4383632

I think the other point is that it takes quite a while to understand a figure well enough to get the best out of the figure, another reason why I understand why so many have stuck with V4. It must be really hard to gain that level of understanding if you are jumping ship each time a new figures is created.

I think that's a very good point. I didn't even start using V4 until a few years ago, because up until then I'd invested all my time in pushing the limits of what I could do with Cookie and Krystal and a few other toon figures. I found V4 confusing and frustrating at first, but I persisted when I realized I could do so much more with her than I would've been able to do with the toons. Now I know her so well (or rather, the Sasha-16 version of her) that it's somewhat jarring to load any other human figure and find myself without all the helpful dials and features I'm used to, organized in a way I'm familiar with. (I can't wait until Karina releases an improved version of M4!!)

I've also grown very familiar with V4's geometry and rigging as well as her material zones and textures, so I feel comfortable making various kinds of modifications. I don't feel like going through that whole learning process again, with another "base" figure (by which I mean the kind of figure designed to be transformed into multiple characters.)

Nursoda's figures don't work like V4, but they're not designed to be "base" figures, so they're also not very complicated -- certainly not the way the more recent V4 competitors are. And I'm so delighted to have such charming and stylized characters to play with that I don't mind putting a little effort into making them more usable (though I wish more of them shared the same UV templates for eyes and mouth).

The fact that some Poser users may not feel the need for a new "base" human figure in no way suggests that the marketplace for Poser content is doomed, as my own purchase history can well attest! There's so much more to buy beyond clothes, hair, and skin textures, unless, I suppose, your only goal is to make portraits!

perpetualrevision posted at 12:20PM Wed, 25 March 2020 - #4384453

hornet3d posted at 7:52PM Tue, 24 March 2020 - #4383632

I think the other point is that it takes quite a while to understand a figure well enough to get the best out of the figure, another reason why I understand why so many have stuck with V4. It must be really hard to gain that level of understanding if you are jumping ship each time a new figures is created.

I think that's a very good point. I didn't even start using V4 until a few years ago, because up until then I'd invested all my time in pushing the limits of what I could do with Cookie and Krystal and a few other toon figures. I found V4 confusing and frustrating at first, but I persisted when I realized I could do so much more with her than I would've been able to do with the toons. Now I know her so well (or rather, the Sasha-16 version of her) that it's somewhat jarring to load any other human figure and find myself without all the helpful dials and features I'm used to, organized in a way I'm familiar with. (I can't wait until Karina releases an improved version of M4!!)

I've also grown very familiar with V4's geometry and rigging as well as her material zones and textures, so I feel comfortable making various kinds of modifications. I don't feel like going through that whole learning process again, with another "base" figure (by which I mean the kind of figure designed to be transformed into multiple characters.)

Nursoda's figures don't work like V4, but they're not designed to be "base" figures, so they're also not very complicated -- certainly not the way the more recent V4 competitors are. And I'm so delighted to have such charming and stylized characters to play with that I don't mind putting a little effort into making them more usable (though I wish more of them shared the same UV templates for eyes and mouth).

The fact that some Poser users may not feel the need for a new "base" human figure in no way suggests that the marketplace for Poser content is doomed, as my own purchase history can well attest! There's so much more to buy beyond clothes, hair, and skin textures, unless, I suppose, your only goal is to make portraits!

I couldn't agree more with any of that and I do find it ironic that many of the users clamouring for a new figure never get anywhere near the limits of the figure they are using. It is a bit like asking for a new updated version of a word processor when the, other than typing, the only features you play with are text styles and paragraphs. Still each to their own, I like to get to know the figures I use and often go far beyond what I thought was initially possible.

Victoria 3

Aiko 3, Hiro 3, AikoToon (original Aiko 3 based), HiroToon, M3, V3, David, Freak, Melody, and Micah. Nothing has ever come close to the Gen 3 figures for LOOKING like comic book figures.

Genesis for monsters, SanctumArts Drub for monsters, parent Poisen's Cthulu Dreaming for a good Cthulhu (can parent a lot of things for the head to make all kinds of monster from it.)

I really wish the crew that was doing the weightmap project on the DAZ 3 figures had succeeded will dig up a tutorial on weight mapping and build me a WM D3 and M3

I have long dreamed of an updated higher res mesh of the Gen 3 figures, done so that old clothing and items would still fit and work with them.

10 M4

My "go to" figure depends on the demands of the project I'm working on. Some have been based on character design. I usually start with a figure I like, morph it till I get the look I want and find outfits for it that fit the "style" and personality I want to portray. Ones I've used in the past include LaFemme, Miki2, Miki4, the old SM G2 figures, and a number of random figures like Little One.

Another project required a lot of characters with unique outfits and ethnicities, so I started with clothing and decided which figure has the required outfit styles. Since my collection is old, it's mostly V3/M3 or V4/M4 stuff. I could refit what I have for better figures, but I don't have as wide a range of skin textures for any other figures either. The characters are mostly posed standing and full-clothed, so clothing and textures were more important than "posablility". The old Daz figures were good enough. Since a Poser "fix" has been created for Genesis 2 & 3 I've started using them for some very specific outfits I needed.

Posetta . She's pretty much the first character n the mother of all that followed. She is the Mona Lisa of 3d characters.with out her we'd all be rendering rocks .?

JimTS posted at 5:13AM Thu, 02 April 2020 - #4385126

I really wish the crew that was doing the weightmap project on the DAZ 3 figures had succeeded will dig up a tutorial on weight mapping and build me a WM D3 and M3

Joe Public made a WM D3.

GhengisFarb posted at 5:19AM Thu, 02 April 2020 - #4385128

I have long dreamed of an updated higher res mesh of the Gen 3 figures, done so that old clothing and items would still fit and work with them.

Have you tried the subdivision feature? You increase the density to incredible levels (if your system can handle it). If you take the Poser 2 low-res figures, for instance, and up the subdivision to 3, this is the result:

JimTS posted at 8:16AM Thu, 02 April 2020 - #4385126

I really wish the crew that was doing the weightmap project on the DAZ 3 figures had succeeded will dig up a tutorial on weight mapping and build me a WM D3 and M3

David 3 weightmapped: https://poserdazfreebies.miraheze.org/wiki/David_3_Weight_Mapped

V4 and Girl 4, especially Rebelmommy's Lilbit character. Not that I work with Poser much right now. Now that Superfly supports RTX cards I should really get back to using Poser.

Can't say that I have a goto figure anymore. Poser has come a very long way over the last several years in my opinion. Ever since the GoZ exchange was introduced, creating content has been relatively easy. Nowadays any Poser native figure can be used as a starting point. Merge zones to weight maps, noodle until happy, save out to library. Sculpt and remesh (ZBrush or Blender) the original figure into a totally new one. The original figure is then irrelevant except for using it as a donor rig for the new resulting creation. Sure, rigging needs to be tweaked or some areas totally reworked after marrying the donor rig to the new figure. But, Poser makes that easy too. The only figures I use are the ones that ship with Poser or come with the legacy content download. This is something I've been noodling on just for giggles in spare time. Evil-Lyn started off as G2 Sydney. Skeletor and BeastMan started off as G2 Simon. These figures have the G2 rigs as their base, modified of course, entirely new geometry and UVs. Pipeline is Poser, ZBrush and Modo.

1. V4 - modified.

Genesis 3 to V4/M4 rig

Kerya posted at 10:32AM Wed, 29 April 2020 - #4383986

EldritchCellar posted at 12:52AM Thu, 19 March 2020 - #4383975

Word of caution 'bout Deco and Decoco, if my memory serves me correctly the rigging on one or both of those is asymmetrical. I recall it was an easy fix in the setup room. More problematic are some unwelded verts, isolated verts, and a couple of other problems with Decoco. A few years ago I created a fixed version, as a personal project, and I remember that it was a chore to fix. Luckily there are no body morphs in Decoco to break by altering her geometry. Not sure how the unfixed model will render with unimesh and subdiv, I'll have to check. Deco seems to Subdiv fine... They both are begging for re-weighting. Anyway, other than those problems, those figures have some of my favorite modeling of facial features in anime figures, reminds me a bit of Satoshi Kon types (Perfect Blue etc). Unfortunately not as much support as say Kururu or Sera. Glad you like them!

https://poserdazfreebies.miraheze.org/wiki/Deco

https://poserdazfreebies.miraheze.org/wiki/Decoco

Thanks for the links, Kerya! These are characters i don't have in the library, and that wiki site looks fascinating!

ockham posted at 11:12AM Wed, 29 April 2020 - #4383620

It sounds like the vendors and customers are working together pretty well to maintain stability.

Silicon Valley is locked into the Github Syndrome, requiring revisions of everything every millisecond. That's good for monopoly vendors who can force everyone else to move along, but it's not good for people who want to GET WORK DONE with the product.

Yes and no. Some of the software I've worked with over the past couple of years have comments in there dating back to the 1990s... other software in the catalog (same employer) has the CI/CD model, where everything is stuffed into Docker containers, shoved through a Jenkins/Stash-powered pipeline, and is updated live, any time of day or night, without a CAB or RFC required. Both models can and do work... if you do it right.

You should already know this - feature creep and suddenly-'broken' stuff is a design/UX (read: people) problem, not a delivery method problem. It's not too hard to make constantly-updated software that behaves the same way over long enough periods of time, just that it gets new features and bugfixes at a pace that keeps up with the industry it's in. It can lead to sloppy practices ( 'I don't always bugfix my code, but when I do, I do it in Production...' ), it can make it all too easily manipulated towards stupid/bad ends, and it can lead to a sloppy attitude among those writing the code... but that's not the model's fault. The fault lies squarely with those who run the show.

Now GitHub (since you named it) is more often that not centered around projects that don't have paying customers, SLA-backed expectations, and long-horizon release/use schedules. You know, FOSS and hobby stuff.

Work doesn't have to be paid work; it can be unpaid artistic work. Anyone who is trying to do real work NEEDS a stable set of tools and supplies. If you follow Github you're spending ALL your time on revising your workflow and reorganizing your runtimes and adapting to the new products. You're spending NO time on actual work.

Hazard of the professional life that relies on a moving target, sadly. Unless you band together as a group and set a few ground rules (such as no abrupt changes and always overcommunicate, dammit!), you'll get stomped on.

But then, a question... what is it that drives the upgrade cycle from an artist's POV?

Depends on the artist. The still artists want better endstage rendering; lighting, texture and shader abilities, better static posing (a lot of them without a learning curve at all, or a learning bump). Along with that, content that fits their favorite figure.

In my case I'd love a full IK solver, as that would increase Poser's usefulness as an animation tool. At the moment the endstage rendering is irrelevant to me, as I use Vue as my endstage. If they got metaball generation (aka Metaform or some similar python script) included, that would change my render profile considerably. Interior stages would be done in Poser, as the metaball system would permit running water, showers, fountains, broken pipes spewing, smoke, fog, plasma effects galore. The old Metaform wasn't RealFlow by any stretch of the imagination, but it was capable of filling an effects niche that was sorely needed, and one written today, to take advantage of the multi core processors, would speed up the simulation by orders of magnitude.

I won't even get into the '5 clicks and done!' end of things, as that is so varied in wants and needs.

I've heard others complain about the IK in Poser. To be honest, it's been such a bug for so long, I honestly don't think anyone at Poser knows HOW to fix that problem.

Not having access to the source I couldn't begin to say, but I suspect it isn't a matter 'can't do it', but a matter of 'how to do it and not break every existing figure out there'. The backwards compatibility that they have maintained has been a big feature of Poser for decades, as it has avoided the who propietary format kerfuffle. A full IK/FK solver would likely push some data into the cr2 that might explode its size. There would have to be changes in the animation data storage, as FK would permit you to designate kinematic 'pins' all along the chain that would act as the temporary 'end' of the chain.

I've long suspected that it would take branching the code in a way that you have a 'classic' mode that preserved the backwards compatibility, and an 'advanced' mode for new figures and content. Think about a new figure with full IK/FK and softbody set up out of the box (with a more traditional version for those who want hard bodies, as it were).

There's always been the Poser geeks who get off on finding and exploiting the bugs in the code (conforming clothing, anyone?), and the ones who just want things to function with little to no work involved under the hood. As long as the file formats remain consistent, I think such a branching would actually work. There would be a hard break between the old content and the new. The program would still function properly with the old, while the new would have a clean slate. The trick would be massaging the program so that it is the common element, and you could switch between the two modes. If the two levels of figures could work together, that would be the perfect outcome. Big if, I know.

ssgbryan posted at 1:45PM Sat, 02 May 2020 - #4383951

"UNIFORM STANDARDS" are like communism - a red herring.

Many vendors DO NOT FOLLOW CURRENT STANDARDS THAT HAVE EXISTED FOR OVER A DECADE. How do you propose to get vendors to follow new ones?

LOL - software industry ain't any better...

(ref: https://xkcd.com/927/ )

But here's the thing - if a feature were compelling (market-wise), it will be implemented and it will sell (see also dForce, which to be honest I detest due to the loooooooooong simulation times, but the results are pretty, so... -shrug- . )

But, all that said, to the original topic, My go-tos tend to evolve, but for now...

Genesis 8, because I've painstakingly bumped a megaton of old Vicky 4 (and in some cases earlier) characters up to Genesis, G2, G3, and now G8. On the plus side, each iteration allows me to work over and improve the figure.

NearMe. Slightly long story, but... I originally got it for my stepdaughter when it first came out, to get her something cute besides the digital dress-up thing, something that could get her started with CG since she was massively into Anime at the time (seriously, I still have her DVD collection of Fruits Basket. It was a starting point for the two of us to bond when her mother and I got married; when she saw the massive pile of Anime DVDs I already had she immediately stopped thinking I was some intrusive asshat, so...) Anyrate, she fell in love with the mesh, actually made morphs for it, I helped convert a megaton of older stuff that I had to fit it, etc. I recently unearthed it in an old backup drive, and I use it a lot nowadays. Mostly, I make dumb comics-style stills with it and email the results to her once in awhile (she graduated HS back in 2013 and got married late last year.) I almost always get a phone call within a day of sending one though, which pleases her mother and I immensely.

LoloBot Same reason I keep NearMe... plus, it costs $0.00. Cute as hell, and I think Cassie squealed loud enough for me to hear it from here when I sent her the link.

Michael 2. See also my incredibly dumb avatar as to why. Between that and the old "Kabuki Hair", and all the texture conversion (old-school -> 3Delight -> iRay) and the SubD, etc... yeah, fuggit, I'm keeping it. Might eventually re-make it in G8 Male, but meh...