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DAZ|Studio F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Nov 18 11:42 am)
Subject: What's Happening at DAZ?
Razor42 posted at 7:32 PM Mon, 14 October 2024 - #4490343
He is trying to be the "good guy"Frankly, I think Richard deserves a raise and possibly some payment from Renderosity for moderating these forums also...
But he is also blatantly ignoring direct questions...so not so good...
As for genAI!
Now you are talking something I know abit about. I have been actively involved with a few artists in regard to this issue.
Do genAI companies pay?
Yes and no.
No, for the most part, companies aren't paying. They are “scrapping” or “harvesting” (This is where I remind people to look very, very carefully at the ToS of profile/portfolio sites you join.)
There are many….many, current legal fights over this issue(recent win for artists is that judges are seeing it as IP infringement and trying to protect artists). The biggest ones are, including companies such as Microsoft(one claim at one point was that if a person had used a 'windows' program any time past 2000 they had a right to what was created...) and DA (amongst other companies. Lionsgate may be facing their own soon. They are training their "own genAI" with their library...but writers, actors, etc have not been asked for consent). Though, we have heard of some, many we have not even heard of on the news sites. These companies have wholesale stolen artwork and used it to “teach” their genAI. Even going so far as to list specific artists to harvest from. Then their "genAI" samples the images and POOF! You get your attempt at images from millions of pieces of work.
For the most part, these are the genAI engines most people have available to them. It's all stolen material that is sampled.
Downfall-Recently, professors studying this issue have noticed something
I find particularly funny. With the huge glut of fake images from
genAI, it's starting to “cannibalize” itself. In Otherworlds, the genAI
engines are getting fed its own work. So the skewed images are
getting…more skewed.
(Please look into glazing your work, there is another system coming up for release that will help too)
The, "Yes" part…some studios have "In house" teams that do nothing but train genAI with the studio work. This is mainly to shortened work tasks. I believe(I will have to go back and double check) the studio that did "Black myth" game, did this.
The good point-work is not stolen. It's used as it was meant to, to AID artists, not destroy their rights.
But to do this effectively…you need a massive amount of data to get it to be effective.
(This is why I question Daz stating they are training their own genAI. I have seen their galleries...they are not mega-massive)
But seeing as we are getting the "nice, good, answers" here...please note that even "richard" is outright, avoiding answering valid concerns and questions.
This goes right back to the "Why?" part.
What exactly is daz so scared of??
Why are valid, simple questions so hard to answer for them?
https://www.darkelegance.co.uk/
Again to be frank, I would prefer Daz 3D spend their time developing new features like FIlatoon. Rather than running around attempting to oil every squeaky wheel that doesn't agree with this decision or that direction. I get it you may have concerns over the ethics of AI, some may have concerns over the introduction of Premier and the direction that's heading. To have concerns and preferences is absolutely human and perfectly ok. That doesn't mean you have the right to demand moderators answer all your questions or an expectation that Daz 3D will just drop something in an attempt to please everyone across the board, just because someone thinks one of their decisions is a bad one.
To be honest I prefer forums that have a degree of moderation and that don't tend to allow negativity for the sheer sake of negativity to thrive and taint the well for everyone who visits.
Sure, voice your concerns but please try to at least keep it civil.
Honestly, I thought this was the Daz Studio forum, not the Daz 3D - 2 Minutes of Hate forum...
Maybe have a read through here when you have a minute:
Razor42,
Civility is a two-way street. So is integrity, for that matter. What is needed is more and better technical information. Documentation, you might say. Instead we have people here telling us how to behave. Rather paternal, and a sad sign of our times. Not very professional either. Try to remember that, if the DAZ forum operated in a professional manner instead of routine blocking of the members, this forum we're in now would probably not need to exist.
An artist with your credentials (i.e. your products) should be capable of providing needed technical help to those who need it. Nobody needs more admonitions.
Richard is the only DAZ mod with any technical skills, and he made a good impression on me because of it. He knows the software well. He's hardly in a position to come here and criticize DAZ, even if he thought they deserved it. It's not clear why he comes here at all. I can see he's not here to provide technical help.
As for DAZ going down rentware road... rentware works for Adobe because they pretty much dominate the professional market. They can well afford to throw 1/3 of their users away as they have done. That won't work for everyone, no matter how tempting it may be. As Richard pointed out, the future cannot be known. That includes his own.
Amen.
ghosty12 posted at 10:03 AM Thu, 10 October 2024 - #4490157Not sure why that would be, I do know that at the time it was a right pain and then magically it was fixed and I could unsub.There should now be an option button under the base membership section of your membership management screen from where you can cancel your sub, was not there before but is working now as have cancelled my sub. The funny thing Daz just gave thirteen freebies to Daz+ and Premier users, my guess is to placate folks
I think the interesting thing in all of this is how many folks after the initial shock of it all, quite a few have signed on to the Premier sub.
Deleted all DAZ cookies, restarted the OS, still no cancel button.
You know you enjoy 3D Art when you realize that your life is a piece of 3D Art. :)
AMD 7900X3D, 64 GB Corsair Vengeance DDR5 Ram, Asus Prime X670-P Wifi MB, PNY RTX 4070Ti Super 16GB, 14TB SSD's & HDD, Windows 11, Poser 9 / Pro 2012 / Pro 2014, Daz Studio 4.22.
ghosty12 posted at 8:18 AM Tue, 15 October 2024 - #4490355
Rottenham posted at 10:49 AM Thu, 10 October 2024 - #4490159I did notice another post on this board that had the same membership screen as I have. Maybe it's intentional. Maybe it's not. DAZ has declined comment. I can't guess why you would have a different screen, either. That ought to be impossible.ghosty12 posted at 10:03 AM Thu, 10 October 2024 - #4490157Not sure why that would be, I do know that at the time it was a right pain and then magically it was fixed and I could unsub.Deleted all DAZ cookies, restarted the OS, still no cancel button.
Being a curious individual, I opened a new account to see what happened. It behaved differently. It assigned me a Basic membership by default. The Basic screen does indeed have the cancel button. I find that odd. As a new Basic member, I can evidently delete my entire account (assuming that's what cancel means). But as a pre-existing member, I am obliged to remain a Plus member til the year 0000. All I can say is, when I worked in this industry, this would never have gotten past QA.
I would switch over to Basic right now, if I had that option.
We (daz Mods) have pointed out some people are still having issues with the membership page, and it is on their radar.
Just to be clear, I am not here as a conduit of information 9and I don't know the answers to many questions, including the delays with Tech Support tickets) - I am just trying to point out some misunderstnadings or to present, based on publicly posted information, some alternative perspectives.
RHaseltine posted at 6:17 PM Tue, 15 October 2024 - #4490366
Thank you Richard. We all need the wisdom to accept the things we cannot change. A particular German expression comes to mind.We (daz Mods) have pointed out some people are still having issues with the membership page, and it is on their radar.
Just to be clear, I am not here as a conduit of information 9and I don't know the answers to many questions, including the delays with Tech Support tickets) - I am just trying to point out some misunderstnadings or to present, based on publicly posted information, some alternative perspectives.
"If there was no such word as if, then cow (guess) would be butter."
Honesty this thread had moved beyond realistic requests for technical information quite a while ago. And is well on its way to becoming a dumpster fire.
As is this one: DAZ moderators are censoring ANY MENTION of g9 to g8 morph conversion
I offered technical help in this forum for years but found the weight of negativity allowed to thrive here made it almost impossible to positively contribute.
Some may say the Daz 3D forum is over moderated, others may say some forums are under moderated...
I am not admonishing anyone. Nor is a request to keep the tone here as constructive and civil "telling people how to behave". As far as "Not very professional either." I'm honestly not sure where you are going with that?
Just so you know where I am coming from. Here is an example of a thread here from a few years ago (One of many with a similar slant. Some far worse.)
https://www.renderosity.com/forums/threads/2973864/genesis-9-announcement
Here is an example of a thread with myself offering technical help here (One of hundreds of threads over the years):
https://www.renderosity.com/forums/threads/2986584/hands#msg4482142
Did you have a technical question in regards to Daz Studio?
All Here,
DAZ Tech Support got me onto "Basic," so now there will be no rentware payments in the year 0000. Phew. Still no Cancel button, but it no longer matters. I learned they had blocked my card, for undisclosed reasons, so a different card solved that. Now, I have the opportunity to find out exactly what in the devil they're up to, before I decide what it's worth.
All's well that ends well.
ghosty12 posted at 10:03 AM Thu, 10 October 2024 - #4490157
Some of us got just enough of an offer to make it worthwhile to shorten our subscriptions by going to Premier. This way I'm done with them quicker and don't have to pop back every month for the next year or so to use the coupons. Since the rentware parts aren't yet being forced on users, I'm just not downloading or installing any of them. But it's not like Daz is getting paid for my subscription beyond what they already had when I had Daz+, that money's been paid and gone for a while now.There should now be an option button under the base membership section of your membership management screen from where you can cancel your sub, was not there before but is working now as have cancelled my sub. The funny thing Daz just gave thirteen freebies to Daz+ and Premier users, my guess is to placate folks
I think the interesting thing in all of this is how many folks after the initial shock of it all, quite a few have signed on to the Premier sub.
One thing I find very telling about how distinctly customer-unfriendly Daz is becoming, (from their FAQ thread on the new Premier):
Content that is removed due to letting a Premier subscription lapse is not guaranteed to be available on reinstating the membership at a later time.
So not only are you renting content, you stand a good chance of losing it forever if your subscription lapses.
I was just saying lapse, which could be for a number of reasons, most likely a serious change in finances, funny how you had to come and try to make it sound like I was talking about technical/account issues.
I'd expect cases of technical/account issues on Daz's part would get the content they had before. But what happens to the user that falls ill for an extended period, or loses their job, or heck, just has to drop a month to cover a sudden car repair expense?
What tells me "Premier" was dreamt up by the marketing department and steamrolled over any objections is that they have no solid plan for a customer not keeping up their subscription beyond punishing them for their failure to be a constant revenue source.
There's some claims there was a survey and customers actually asked for Premier. Makes me question how that survey was done and how loaded were the questions? Since it clearly wasn't all customers, how did Daz/Tafi pick who got a survey? You don't need a degree in statistics to tell you that you would get a different answer from a sampling of the top spenders than you might get from those who aren't buying hundreds of dollars worth of content every month.
darken666 posted at 7:18 PM Wed, 16 October 2024 - #4490414There's some claims there was a survey and customers actually asked for Premier.
My experience has been that when marketing takes a survey, it's their family members that get surveyed.
Ain't that the truth. In all my life, I've seldom seen a marketing department so out of touch with both their customers and their products. It's like they just hire straight out business school and just let them run everything.
Wow, whole pages of thread responses are being removed for even vaguely criticizing the new Premier tier. Evidently all talk of Premier is being locked to a specific thread and even there it is being savagely over-moderated to remove any criticism. Wonder how heavily Daz Marketing is leaning on the moderators to eliminate any negative comments. You can't even discuss Premier in a thread about a Premier exclusive figure.
There was a survey, the usual Survey Monkey thing sent out to a range of customers, and it did ask what people would like in an enhanced subscription service (I can't recall the wording, or how it was presented - possibly one of those arrange options in order of preference things). It was certainly discussed by the participants on the forums (and possibly here too).
So a loaded survey sent to a limited sample, designed to get the result that would let marketing do what they likely would have done anyway.There was a survey, the usual Survey Monkey thing sent out to a range of customers, and it did ask what people would like in an enhanced subscription service (I can't recall the wording, or how it was presented - possibly one of those arrange options in order of preference things). It was certainly discussed by the participants on the forums (and possibly here too).
True, the survey was just to provide cover for what they had to know would be an unpopular decision. Being able to say "your fellow customers asked for this" without giving any real detail is just another way of shutting down complaints.
I can believe there were people who wanted better discounts on a higher tier.
I can even believe that people were ok with subscription features. (Though DAZ should have put in the work and made their own plugins. Taking existing plugins out of the store and making little tweaks to call them "new" is just scummy)
But I can't believe that anyone knowingly said "screw us over with subscription-only content. We want to forced to pay for our figures over and over again."
Anyone who said yes to subscription content was duped by a slickly worded survey question.
It keeps getting worse. The subscription is integrated in the base Studio program such that at least one QOL feature is subscription only even if you don't load any of the Premier plugins or content. And with all plugins needing to be redone for version 5, odds are they'll claim the software is so different that anything more than starting it will be subscription only. Looks like the free stuff they're tossing around is just to distract people and placate them so they won't tell DAZ where they can stick the subscription for Daz 5.0. Best make backups of your 4.22 installer. I wouldn't trust any version past that to come without something that kills older versions remotely when the next version is released so you're forced to update.
"We see there is a new update to Daz Studio, update now to continue using the program."
darken666 posted at 8:34 PM Thu, 17 October 2024 - #4490440
I'm morbidly curious... what's the Quality of Life feature now locked behind the subscription wall?It keeps getting worse. The subscription is integrated in the base Studio program such that at least one QOL feature is subscription only even if you don't load any of the Premier plugins or content. And with all plugins needing to be redone for version 5, odds are they'll claim the software is so different that anything more than starting it will be subscription only. Looks like the free stuff they're tossing around is just to distract people and placate them so they won't tell DAZ where they can stick the subscription for Daz 5.0. Best make backups of your 4.22 installer. I wouldn't trust any version past that to come without something that kills older versions remotely when the next version is released so you're forced to update.
"We see there is a new update to Daz Studio, update now to continue using the program."
Since marketing is an inherently non-technical endeavor, it's possible that DAZ themselves doesn't even know the details of their own new deal. And, DAZ may go through a period of instability (it may be in one now), as they are making a big change. We're not going to get the whole picture until we get it ourselves. At this time we may be wise to assume the worst, and develop our Plan B.
Economically, we're in a period similar to the Great Depression. Two thirds of the auto manufacturers went out of business at that time. What's fascinating, and rarely mentioned, is that the 30s was the finest decade of art and design of the century. I think as artists we can work around the rentware craze.
It seems to me this discussion is jumping the shark a bit. I've settled on a 4.22 build that suits me fine. I plan to stay there until all this settles down. It's quite impossible to say with any certainty what Daz will do going forward. They're privately held and can do a lot of whatever without telling anyone anything.
The economics now do not necessarily parallel conditions in the 1920s or 1930s. That was a common theme during Covid, that we'll be stuck in a depression. But it appears we are past that assessment. Some doom & gloomers say a depression could come in the 2030s, and that's only one possibility. There are some incredibly enormous variables, and this is simply not the place to delve into those. So, likely better to narrow the scope back to Daz and deal with the now
We have this Premier program. It does change the dynamics with respect to the relationship between Daz Co and Daz customers. For me, it has reduced my spending there. That's probably okay. I spent enough earlier in the year. My spending here dropped dramatically a few years ago and has never really recovered. Over there, it's still usually a better deal, with all the good and bad that entails. And objectively, I have a fair amount of stuff. It's a drop in the bucket compared to some folk, but I find it's a lot of stuff! And if I don;t buy another thing ever, I probably have enough stuff to make pictures in DS for the rest of my life. I'm not alone there.
The economics now do not necessarily parallel conditions in the 1920s or 1930s.
I will say, Germany in the 20s, in a certain way, is even closer. But we will not discuss politics or history here, my mistake for putting the thought in your mind. I think you underestimate the marketing mindset badly. If you had ever worked with them, you would understand the connection with DAZ. I do appreciate that the "scope" may be a bit broad for your taste. Please don't take that as an invitation to instruct those around you.
RHaseltine posted at 3:51 PM Thu, 17 October 2024 - #4490430
So a loaded survey sent to a limited sample, designed to get the result that would let marketing do what they likely would have done anyway.There was a survey, the usual Survey Monkey thing sent out to a range of customers, and it did ask what people would like in an enhanced subscription service (I can't recall the wording, or how it was presented - possibly one of those arrange options in order of preference things). It was certainly discussed by the participants on the forums (and possibly here too).
I can't recall the wording to comment on the first, but a fair number of regular customers did comment on it so I doubt it was greatly limited.
RHaseltine posted at 3:25 PM Fri, 18 October 2024 - #4490472
darken666 posted at 4:17 PM Thu, 17 October 2024 - #4490431So you do expect us to believe that the survey indicated that everyone would be happy to see subscription content that they would never own and would have to pay rent for?RHaseltine posted at 3:51 PM Thu, 17 October 2024 - #4490430
So a loaded survey sent to a limited sample, designed to get the result that would let marketing do what they likely would have done anyway.There was a survey, the usual Survey Monkey thing sent out to a range of customers, and it did ask what people would like in an enhanced subscription service (I can't recall the wording, or how it was presented - possibly one of those arrange options in order of preference things). It was certainly discussed by the participants on the forums (and possibly here too).
I can't recall the wording to comment on the first, but a fair number of regular customers did comment on it so I doubt it was greatly limited.
Because I find that very hard to believe. But then it's not like the actual results would be made public, so marketing could say they turned out any way they wanted.
darken666 posted at 3:33 PM Fri, 18 October 2024 - #4490473
If I can't recall the wording I can't recall the exact questions - so no, I am not saying that (nor do I know what the answers to the survey were). All I am doing is pointing out that your previous claim/speculation is certainly not wholly accurate:RHaseltine posted at 3:25 PM Fri, 18 October 2024 - #4490472
darken666 posted at 4:17 PM Thu, 17 October 2024 - #4490431So you do expect us to believe that the survey indicated that everyone would be happy to see subscription content that they would never own and would have to pay rent for?RHaseltine posted at 3:51 PM Thu, 17 October 2024 - #4490430
So a loaded survey sent to a limited sample, designed to get the result that would let marketing do what they likely would have done anyway.There was a survey, the usual Survey Monkey thing sent out to a range of customers, and it did ask what people would like in an enhanced subscription service (I can't recall the wording, or how it was presented - possibly one of those arrange options in order of preference things). It was certainly discussed by the participants on the forums (and possibly here too).
I can't recall the wording to comment on the first, but a fair number of regular customers did comment on it so I doubt it was greatly limited.
Because I find that very hard to believe. But then it's not like the actual results would be made public, so marketing could say they turned out any way they wanted.
> There's some claims there was a survey and customers actually asked for Premier. Makes me question how that survey was done and how loaded were the questions? Since it clearly wasn't all customers, how did Daz/Tafi pick who got a survey? You don't need a degree in statistics to tell you that you would get a different answer from a sampling of the top spenders than you might get from those who aren't buying hundreds of dollars worth of content every month.
RHaseltine posted at 3:40 PM Fri, 18 October 2024 - #4490475
Nothing you've said says otherwise. Just because they sent out a survey to a 'fair number' of customers doesn't mean those customers weren't chosen to bias the result.darken666 posted at 3:33 PM Fri, 18 October 2024 - #4490473
If I can't recall the wording I can't recall the exact questions - so no, I am not saying that (nor do I know what the answers to the survey were). All I am doing is pointing out that your previous claim/speculation is certainly not wholly accurate:RHaseltine posted at 3:25 PM Fri, 18 October 2024 - #4490472
darken666 posted at 4:17 PM Thu, 17 October 2024 - #4490431So you do expect us to believe that the survey indicated that everyone would be happy to see subscription content that they would never own and would have to pay rent for?RHaseltine posted at 3:51 PM Thu, 17 October 2024 - #4490430
So a loaded survey sent to a limited sample, designed to get the result that would let marketing do what they likely would have done anyway.There was a survey, the usual Survey Monkey thing sent out to a range of customers, and it did ask what people would like in an enhanced subscription service (I can't recall the wording, or how it was presented - possibly one of those arrange options in order of preference things). It was certainly discussed by the participants on the forums (and possibly here too).
I can't recall the wording to comment on the first, but a fair number of regular customers did comment on it so I doubt it was greatly limited.
Because I find that very hard to believe. But then it's not like the actual results would be made public, so marketing could say they turned out any way they wanted.
> There's some claims there was a survey and customers actually asked for Premier. Makes me question how that survey was done and how loaded were the questions? Since it clearly wasn't all customers, how did Daz/Tafi pick who got a survey? You don't need a degree in statistics to tell you that you would get a different answer from a sampling of the top spenders than you might get from those who aren't buying hundreds of dollars worth of content every month.
If it were sent out to the top 5 or 10% of the biggest spenders, it's still not going to get the same answers as if it were sent to those with more modest spending habits.
Really, we get it, Daz is going full Adobe and they're trying to do it slowly in hopes of not pushing customers into leaving en masse. They've got moderators trying to make it sound like everything's business as usual, pay no attention to the encroaching subscription features and content. Enjoy the happy cartoons, it's the last free update you'll ever get. Remove all criticism so it looks like everyone is happy with Premier and wants more stuff locked down in the subscription.
At this point I wouldn't put it past them to have a timebomb coded in 4.23 if not earlier versions so if you don't update each time there's a new release your program starts falling apart and when it eventually becomes subscription only, anyone who doesn't keep really old versions of Studio on hand will end up either subscribing or not being able to use their content anymore.
They tried moving to subscription content when they released the Connect DRM, but the backlash was too much then. Now they're trying again.
At this point I wouldn't put it past them to have a timebomb coded in 4.23 if not earlier versions so if you don't update each time there's a new release your program starts falling apart and when it eventually becomes subscription only, anyone who doesn't keep really old versions of Studio on hand will end up either subscribing or not being able to use their content anymore.
I have DAZStudio blocked at the firewall, I have ever since I heard about the AI garbage. I canNOT trust AI to be used for good when it comes to artists.
Yeah, I kinda missed that (I either wasn't paying attention, or I was using Poser).They tried moving to subscription content when they released the Connect DRM, but the backlash was too much then. Now they're trying again.
And you just know the people pushing Premier don't know a thing about the program or how content is used. They just think "ooh, constant stream of money".
Seriously, hobbyist or professional user, who the heck would want content that can't be backed up, and might not be there if you need to revisit an old scene? Rental content is the most idiotic idea DAZ has pushed on us so far. And that includes the NFT stupidity.
And imagine when someone has subscribed for a long time and suddenly has an issue that causes their subscription payment to not go through. "oops, your subscription was inactive for five minutes while you fixed a credit card issue with your bank. You've lost all the subscription content. Tough luck." Even if a support ticket fixes it eventually, who knows how long it'd be gone? Their support hasn't exactly been very responsive or helpful lately.
darken666 posted at 4:26 PM Fri, 18 October 2024 - #4490483
Seriously, hobbyist or professional user, who the heck would want content that can't be backed up, and might not be there if you need to revisit an old scene?
Adobe is facing the same issue, and with a very demanding and much larger group of users. I wonder how Adobe handles backups.
It's a good question. Anybody know?
Hopefully they've got a better idea than DAZ's "Everything is fine, go play with the pretty cartoons while we try to be more like Adobe"darken666 posted at 4:26 PM Fri, 18 October 2024 - #4490483
Seriously, hobbyist or professional user, who the heck would want content that can't be backed up, and might not be there if you need to revisit an old scene?
Adobe is facing the same issue, and with a very demanding and much larger group of users. I wonder how Adobe handles backups.It's a good question. Anybody know?
Torquinox posted at 1:38 PM Fri, 18 October 2024 - #4490468Well aren't you patronizing and self-important? Are we going to throw down now?The economics now do not necessarily parallel conditions in the 1920s or 1930s.
I will say, Germany in the 20s, in a certain way, is even closer. But we will not discuss politics or history here, my mistake for putting the thought in your mind. I think you underestimate the marketing mindset badly. If you had ever worked with them, you would understand the connection with DAZ. I do appreciate that the "scope" may be a bit broad for your taste. Please don't take that as an invitation to instruct those around you.
Razor42 posted at 11:27 PM Mon, 14 October 2024 - #4490347
Moderation is not, in itself a bad thing. I run and mod both discords, twitch and a chat site. I understand mod'ing forums. (namely, Dnd, and two twitches for people that stream CoD and WoW)Again to be frank, I would prefer Daz 3D spend their time developing new features like FIlatoon. Rather than running around attempting to oil every squeaky wheel that doesn't agree with this decision or that direction. I get it you may have concerns over the ethics of AI, some may have concerns over the introduction of Premier and the direction that's heading. To have concerns and preferences is absolutely human and perfectly ok. That doesn't mean you have the right to demand moderators answer all your questions or an expectation that Daz 3D will just drop something in an attempt to please everyone across the board, just because someone thinks one of their decisions is a bad one.
To be honest I prefer forums that have a degree of moderation and that don't tend to allow negativity for the sheer sake of negativity to thrive and taint the well for everyone who visits.
Sure, voice your concerns but please try to at least keep it civil.
Honestly, I thought this was the Daz Studio forum, not the Daz 3D - 2 Minutes of Hate forum...
Maybe have a read through here when you have a minute:
But in all the places I am involved in, person views/dislikes of mods and them using that as leverage is not allowed. Flat out. It will end your access to the mod features.
When plenty of customers have the same complaint (namely the lack of support and the favouritism game in the forums) that is not a “personal perspective” any more, that is an ingrained issue.
I have put a rather nice chunk of money into daz…particularly in the past two years.
ANY product I buy(electronics,houseware,programs,etc), should have timely support. That is generally accepted expectations.
To wait a YEAR or more...for basic support?
Are you joking?
Particularly when one of the items was noted to be flawed and not working(the same issue I reported) in 2018.
You think it is…extreme to expect them to…I don't know….actually DO something?
Has it occurred, that people are snippy and a touch sharp, because they are up to their back teeth with the games the Daz mods and team play?
Could be?
Maybe?
Very...possibly....
If your customers are repeating the same complaints...the customers...are not the issue
https://www.darkelegance.co.uk/
Thank you for the clarity!We (daz Mods) have pointed out some people are still having issues with the membership page, and it is on their radar.
Just to be clear, I am not here as a conduit of information 9and I don't know the answers to many questions, including the delays with Tech Support tickets) - I am just trying to point out some misunderstnadings or to present, based on publicly posted information, some alternative perspectives.
Now, as you are part of their team...who does have control over any of that?
because I have gone into my tickets and even posted reminders, requests etc to the open tickets.
https://www.darkelegance.co.uk/
Razor42 posted at 7:49 PM Tue, 15 October 2024 - #4490368
I think many people, including myself, are coming from a place of object frustration and annoyance.Honesty this thread had moved beyond realistic requests for technical information quite a while ago. And is well on its way to becoming a dumpster fire.
As is this one: DAZ moderators are censoring ANY MENTION of g9 to g8 morph conversion
I offered technical help in this forum for years but found the weight of negativity allowed to thrive here made it almost impossible to positively contribute.
Some may say the Daz 3D forum is over moderated, others may say some forums are under moderated...
I am not admonishing anyone. Nor is a request to keep the tone here as constructive and civil "telling people how to behave". As far as "Not very professional either." I'm honestly not sure where you are going with that?
Just so you know where I am coming from. Here is an example of a thread here from a few years ago (One of many with a similar slant. Some far worse.)
https://www.renderosity.com/forums/threads/2973864/genesis-9-announcement
Here is an example of a thread with myself offering technical help here (One of hundreds of threads over the years):
https://www.renderosity.com/forums/threads/2986584/hands#msg4482142
Did you have a technical question in regards to Daz Studio?
When you pay a nice sum for items…and then can't get basic replies. Much less help, that is beyond frustrating.
Over time, it starts to grate.
You start to get the impression that the only thing that matters to Daz is "get them to put it in the basket" and nothing else.
Support for items is not just about "getting things to work". It's about customer retention as well.
I was making purchases daily.
Unless there is some great deal on something like the recent daily offers for 2.99 or the lightning deals(Got the Pegasus wings for daz horse 3 for something like 1.25)
I am rarely purchasing…from daz.
Why? The entire support issue.
The fact I purchased files that are supposed to work, supposedly tested, and yet…finding out after purchase that the issue was known? And not sorted? or the item removed?
Tell me what would you do if you went to a shop, purchased an item...to find it was broken. Sold as new. Sold as working.
Would you just ignore it? Or would you, at the very least, ask the shop to fix it/make it right?
Even the most laid back individual that would go "well, it depends on the price and you know sometimes you just got to accept the loss"...over time that "loss" adds up.
That is why so many people are just...so frustrated. Just so to their back teeth with the utter...tripe.
https://www.darkelegance.co.uk/
darken666 posted at 5:39 PM Wed, 16 October 2024 - #4490413
Very good point.I was just saying lapse, which could be for a number of reasons, most likely a serious change in finances, funny how you had to come and try to make it sound like I was talking about technical/account issues.
I'd expect cases of technical/account issues on Daz's part would get the content they had before. But what happens to the user that falls ill for an extended period, or loses their job, or heck, just has to drop a month to cover a sudden car repair expense?
As most of my income is "freelance", I tend to tuck money away. This means paying for a year when I have the funds spare, is ideal.
The market for many freelance jobs fluctuates. A twitch streamer, may grow bored or lose their tech and cant stream...loss of that income for a month? monthS?
A client suddenly stops buying their almost monthly OC request...
Heck even 9-5 jobs are not perfect.
And lets not talk about health...
A set price, with offers a couple of times a year...great! But strong-arming customers into monthly...that is more expensive?
Nah
https://www.darkelegance.co.uk/
UGH....Not updating.It keeps getting worse. The subscription is integrated in the base Studio program such that at least one QOL feature is subscription only even if you don't load any of the Premier plugins or content. And with all plugins needing to be redone for version 5, odds are they'll claim the software is so different that anything more than starting it will be subscription only. Looks like the free stuff they're tossing around is just to distract people and placate them so they won't tell DAZ where they can stick the subscription for Daz 5.0. Best make backups of your 4.22 installer. I wouldn't trust any version past that to come without something that kills older versions remotely when the next version is released so you're forced to update.
"We see there is a new update to Daz Studio, update now to continue using the program."
I am willing to put money on the table, they will keep “silently” strong-arming customers till they have to use the premier.
https://www.darkelegance.co.uk/
darken666 posted at 4:03 PM Fri, 18 October 2024 - #4490477A manager I had once told me about “customer surveys” where it may say "40% of our customers love it!"…while leaving out the percentage of customer that didnt.At this point I wouldn't put it past them to have a timebomb coded in 4.23 if not earlier versions so if you don't update each time there's a new release your program starts falling apart and when it eventually becomes subscription only, anyone who doesn't keep really old versions of Studio on hand will end up either subscribing or not being able to use their content anymore.
I have DAZStudio blocked at the firewall, I have ever since I heard about the AI garbage. I canNOT trust AI to be used for good when it comes to artists.
Yeah, I kinda missed that (I either wasn't paying attention, or I was using Poser).They tried moving to subscription content when they released the Connect DRM, but the backlash was too much then. Now they're trying again.
Its implied acceptance/approval. It's not “wrong”. It's just presenting the percentage of acceptance.
As for AI…at least here in the UK/EU we are getting some hope. That companies(including companies doing business with the UK/EU) will have to offer the "opt out" option(Like they forced META to do).
So artists will have the ability to opt out of getting their work mined/harvested.
The down side, as noted by many trying to get regulation…that means artists have to hunt down companies/sites that may be mining their work and “opt out”(just had to opt-out on LinkedIn)
There is progress for artists…just slow and hard-earned.
This would mean that even Daz…would have to abide that if they continue to cater to customers in the UK/EU
Just like Meta did, just like LinkedIn did...
As for Daz doing an "Adobe"
Would anyone wish to make bets?
The thing with adobe, is there are free and low-cost options...Daz was that low cost/free option other than say blender(and by the time you dress that out with the bells and whistles…not so free. But check out humblebundles...from time to time they do blender and unreal packages that are a steal! Never mind other software and RPG sets)
https://www.darkelegance.co.uk/
@DarkElegance
I'm not saying you shouldn't have frustrations, nor even complaints I'm only asking is this the appropriate forum to be airing your grievances? Is what's happening here in any way constructive?
Support can be a delicate balancing act with many factors involved, some issues can be solved easily while others tend to be much more involved. Anyway, doesn't Daz 3d offer a 30 money back guarantee on all items? You could also try the forums which tend to offer a lot of help when it comes to isolating issues, which could see a patch pushed through to correct a problem. I've noticed what does tend to be fixed is an item that many people have found issue with as oppose to a single issue reported by 1 user which is sometimes hard to pin down in support. Having sold here at renderosity I have experienced how 1 user with a product issue, that may not even relate to the specific product itself, can soak up a whole bundle of hours. The amount of hours I spent here explaining the installation process for DS products to users who picked up an item on sale for a few dollars and couldn't "Get it to work" is insane. So forgive me if I'm a little sympathetic to Daz 3D's position with support. I also have my share of frustrations with the industry from aspects of AI implementations to piracy, but that's an entirely different subject.
I'm not defending poor support, nor trying to admonish you at all. I am just tired of seeing this forum used as a vent when someone has a had a bad Daz 3D experience and feels this is their way at getting back, decrying the evil of the empire apparent. I used to enjoy coming here and offering support to users of Daz Studio. TBH not really anymore, I don't really have the time nor the patience to read vents and rants from a very vocal small amount of peeps, most of them just wanting a pot shot at Daz 3D to try to even some score. So the result is I just don't visit here much, and it's probably the same with many others. So all you end up with is less people to offer help or support.
Do you really think Daz 3D staff are poring over this forums saying "Good Point... Somebody take a note of this"?
But hey feel free to have it, Rottenham just blocked me and carried right on.😏
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nothing has been reduced.
Does any AI company get paid in data for its training? I don't know where the LoRA training is done but it is done with clean data owned by Daz.