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Community Center F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Nov 28 12:24 am)
Subject: Harassment
Whether or not Bobbie has links to something wrong on her site or not does not mean that she did not legally buy or create the texture in question. I myself would never buy a product from SteffyZZ because of her past and current actions and her restrictions upon them. Me and my husband use the same poserfiles. They are on my computer and if he was to use a texture of hers (if I had bought one) would she be harrassing him because he used it on my computer? Speaking as a merchant This is just plain awful buisness practice. Speaking as a buyer NOTHING in this world could get me to buy anything of hers and be harrassed about it later. SteffyZZ really needs to calm down and stop accusing people of wrong doing And if she is harrassing people then she really needs to back off. She doesn't just make herself look bad when she does this. She makes the whole marketplace look bad for it. Storm My 2 cents
With all the talk of anti-warez on this site, you should have gotten a clue that your renters were not exactly the sort you would want to be seen to be associated with.
I had the understanding that umblefugly also shared your website? Then he should have also been aware of the warez activity going on there.
But I noticed that umblefugly also changed the link on his "sponsored by" under the picture of your side-by-side comparison of Jillian and Asia to something called 'goodbye'. When I last clicked on the link to his sponsored by site I was bombarded by pop-ups of teen-age porn sites.
So Macabros...to answer your question, the item got pulled because umblefugly linked porno web sites to that picture, which of course, is against the TOS.
Not looking very good, in fact, seems a pretty sordid business.
Marcabros... To tell the truth I don't think it should be the admin or Mods job to stop her. Truth is. The only one's who can stop her are those buying from her. IF you don't like how she acts Don't buy her stuff. Don't give her your money. Should mods/admins get involved in her shenanagins? No. They should tell her to deal with it on her own. But it's not their responsibility to tell her to shut up. The way to hurt her, honestly hurt her is hit it where it hurts her most. Her wallet. umblefugly , XSashaX, if you are going to argue take it to email! Not drag this thread down with your fighting. Thank you. Storm
Fyrene, I agree with you there. And I wasn't meaning that the mods should NOT stop her from doing that. The mods/admins should Stay out of it all together unless she has cold hard proof 100% undeniable proof that What she says is true but even then, i wouldn't trust even that. but the mods/admins should not get involved just because she says WAREZ!
this seems to be whats happening more and more here, and alot of ppl have left because of it. 1. this is and art site where ppl can share in something that they enjoy. 2. this is alse a site where ppl come to learn thing, and expand on what they know 3.this is also a site where ppl get to know each other and good friendships are made then something happened and it became who had the most views, who sold the most items and who brought in the most members... those ppl end up getting a level of power that they dictate how this site is run and how can stay or must be banned. how many ppl are gonna leave because of this now?? will there be another great migration to other art sites?? Kyle
hmm..... what happens to the girl who cried wolf all the time ? the story however ends when the girl turned to wolf....... and hairy (yikes). I've been there, I know every threads, and it doesn't look like that someone is playing sportive and bussiness competitive. upon the credibility, the admin should put a high concern for the person next actions !!!. Yes I believe that there will be another one........ who can stop a loose canon ?
Sometimes, one has to move on when one is not happy, kingkyle. I wasnt happy here, so I found another home at 3DCommune and 2 galleries at Elfwood. I come back here only to check out the freebies and the MP for exclusives. Wish there wasnt such a thing as exclusives. Oh, and to post messages periodically in these forums when the need arises :) Tonight, the need arose LOL :)
Not really defending her here - but sometimes to "protect" their own work they can get too over protective and cause issues like this. I know as a author that I got extremely protective when stories of mine were appearing to be "sold" on a webpage. However I found that those I thought were being sold where being supplied free (which was a part of my "agreement" to websites)... --- okay they were also selling a couple of my stories - but I think you can see the simularity :P Now I don't know the history of this artist, and I won't agree that she went about this the right way, but by far is this the first time this has happened. Almost 6 months ago I remember another instant in where someone accused someone else of stealing a model, and calling it their own. Hell someone told me I had even sold the Jesus picture I did, then deleted that message the moment he figured out he was wrong. So accusing people is the easiest thing to do on the internet - especially since you have little to no risk. As for the "stolen" articles - I would suggest that Bobby contact her credit card companie and ask them to fax stefyzz with the details. This is proof of purchase, and as such if stefyzz doesn't accept it as such - and continues to cause Bobby problems - then Bobby has a real case against Stefyzz for Harrassement. Bobby should then contact her own ISP and place a complaint regarding Stefyzz, and indicate the evidance in her favour. Thus her ISP will then contact the ISP of Stefyzz and things will happen to disconnect Stefyzz from the internet. If this doesn't help - then there is always legal action which can be taken against the harrassment, and it is also possible to get Bobby's bank to get invovled. Either way - Bobby has to make steps to rectify the situations and if Stefyzz doesn't come to the party, then Bobby has true legal options open to her.
I'm not sure what country she is in - however most have International Procedures for cases that cause International Commerce issues. I know that the New Zealand Commerce Commission will investigate issues with a international. Example - I was being "harrassed" by a company called a4Tech - where one of their employees was not only supplying my email to others, he was also spamming me with a 1.7meg file twice a day. I contacted the Ministry of Consumer affairs who stated that they would investigate the issue if it continued. Along with the Commissioner of Privacy, and also my ISP (who were the ones who finally got the A4TECH management to do something about the situation). As you can see - just because someone is in another company, many people will do things about it - if they can see a sure cut case... Personally I would suggest that she contact VISA first - if the issue continues Bobby can tell Visa of the issue, and thus get the money reverse. If it is too late for that - VISA (if it is VISA) will investigate the issue themselves, and can act in some cases as mediator. I believe when things get ugly Stefyzz will back down (after all it is more then her image here at stake now - if the credit card companies feel she is causing problems they will blacklist her company, which means that no creditcard company will deal with her company anymore - which I have seen done before). WiNC
@WiNC wow thats good to know :)thanks for the info! Now I dont know how long this one will last because I even checked it the sponser is a porn site, I have asked umblefugly to remove the porn site as a sponcer so that we can continue to keep the image up but... who knows.... so here it is one more time Asia Vs Jillian
Well now someone has "asked" my opinion: I have put the two pictures in Photoshop and looked at them very closely - and they are not the same texture. However, the only problem is - there is a simularity in the texture which could cause "uncertainy" in my area. I have looked at them and if you blur the Stefyzz one a lot you will see that the darkness in Bobbie25's texture is very simular. The lashes, lips and eyebrows are different - but as you all know you can set them yourself in something else. Example take Stefyzz's texture and blur it in photoshop... Blur it a lot, and while you are look at how the top and the body seem very simular to Bobbie's... At the same time - look at the nose. This is probably the biggest area - since the blurring doesn't effect the nose all that much. Now look under the nose, there you see the darkness patching - okay you have blurred a lot - now increase the brightness of the texture. There is a lot of lightlines, and darklines that are very simular. Now - I'm not saying it is Asia's texture (I can't - I don't have the proof) - However I can see personally how confusion can happen. The problem is - to do the work that would be needed to make the texture look as good as Bobbies - to use Asia's - it would have been a lot easier for Bobby to have create her own texture. For example - on the bridge of the nose you will see that the the skin there is darker then it is would be in the blurred version. This would mean that a whole section would have to be brightness inverted then altered, and then merged back into head texture. All this work just to "copy" a texture - ... I think not. Either way, the real point of this is that Stefyzz SHOULD have communicated with Bobbie before all the shit hit the fan, and should have gone through a civil process of dealing with the issue before it blew up into something like it has. It appears from history that Stefyzz has problems doing this - and all it hurts is herself. I hope that she learns that this type of thing is bad not just for her, but also for the community. WiNC
Just to be on the safe side here - again I am not saying that I believe the texture is stolen (or not) because in my eyes that has already been decided. I am saying however - too all those that believe there isn't any way you can say one is the other - that there is enough simularities to make it possible to "believe" it was a copy. Which again - gives Stefyzz the right to make civil communications with Bobby regarding the situtation. IT DOES NOT however give her the right to Harrasse Bobby because of it - and as such I frimly offer any support I can to Bobby if she needs it. WiNC
So then the question would be, If in fact Jillian derived from Asia, would she still be infringing upon stefyzz's copyright because I know if you take an image and change a certian % of it it is no longer considered the origional image but a new one and hence a new copyright. I dont know if that is in fact what happend but if it is Im curious to know. ok off to bed I go enough of this for one day
all ive read in this entire thread is the first few posts, so mayhap there have been some drastic changes halfway through, or even a resolution. but i have to put my .02 cents in. stefy, you STILL havent learned, have you? still up to your bullying, strong-arm tactics, huh? im not going to dredge up all the bullshit youve put people through here in the past, nor am i going to get into this argument because i just dont give a shit. i really dont. im just pointing out the monumental hypocrisy here, where you pull your store items for attention, then promise your costomers youll take back all of your bullshit licenses added after point of sale like the one requiring that buyers credit you in any image using your textures. where you also promise you will stop your tactic of cross-checking gallery renders against your buyers list and then harassing the person through threatening and insulting IMs and emails. yet here you are again. big suprise. as for your little buyer's list-checking gestapo bullshit - do you have any idea how many times i surf through the galleries and see my store items in renders by people who i am certain are not on my buyer's list? more than i can count. and what do i do? do i message them something like: 'you are nasty warez kid and liar. buy you my texture within 24 hours or you will be banned from renderosity and taken will be legal action on you'? no. i comment on the image, and appreciate the fact that someone is giving me free advertising. i do not condone warez, but i do tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. many people have renderosity merchandise bought for them as a gift, or use a separate account for purchases, or have relatives/friends who create accounts for the sole purpose of making a gift purchase. with your bullying tactics and hypocritical BS youre not fighting warez at all, all youre doing is displaying your true colours to your rapidly diminishing base of legitimate customers - and widening the gap between merchants and rosity members by casting us as tyrannical, profiteering whiners. with love from canada, -gabriel
Yeah - it would be against the "law" (as to speak) - becuase the original was is copyrighted... HOWEVER - - - Now this is where it gets really ugly in the texture business - because unless you can prove that you own the rights to the original photo - you are yourself breaking copyright law if you take a photo (from lets say playboy) and use that photo in making your own texture. Proving that they used a copyright photo would almost be impossible (especially if the texturer is good) - however never-the-less, just because it can't be proved - it is still against the law (if you don't believe me - go read copyright laws in US, and UK regarding use of photos and alterations of photos for profit). It would be like using a photo from someone else, using it in your own picture and then taking credit for it... bad vibes... :) Now - to confuse things even more, there is also a statement regarding academic use. Which states for academic use you can use 10% - however at the same time you still have to give reference to the original creator. And I'm not 100% sure how that refers to art/pictures - I believe that is only for the written word. I think art is covered simularly to computer programs - in which you can not use any part of a computer program for your own use - even 10% of it is against the law (unless otherwise stated by the person who made the program - ie - open source) It is the same with stories - someone might take your story and alter it - blur the text, the plot and then release it - if there is enough "noticeable" and "traceable" simularities it could allow the person to go to court to try and prove the person copied the work. There was a music example of that a while back also - where a song was used which had the same melody and bassline then another, but it had the same words - however the original creator of the piece wasn't given royalities for using the song. So back to the case at hand - yes, if the case was that someone used someone elses texture to make their own texture - they could be in trouble, especially if it was proveable. However - the proof that would need to be presented to prove that would have to be very high - because no jury would convict someone on "oh the shades are simular" - there would have to be proof on how it was changed, where it was changed, the process that would be required to change it, and then the money value and if it was worth the effort. I can't say that is case in question is proveable or not - the "law" (well the Renderosity Law) has already spoken on this matter - from what I'm informed, and they are the jury in this case... What I am stating is that people can still be angry at Stefyzz - however be angry for the right reasons. She had a right to question the simularities between the two textures (hell I would of) because of the clear reasons I have explained above However she had/has NO right to be rude about it, harrasse Bobby after the before and after the fact, and certainly has no right to cause issues with products that Bobby has proof she has purchased. And if she is being Harrased outside of Renderosity she HAS to take this up with her Credit Card company, and ISP, and try and deal with it. There is nothing you, I, or anyone else here can do until she has taken those steps (which I hope she has) to deal with this issue. She doesn't deserve this - no one does. There is a "law" in this community - the moderators, and the administration - I would of personally thought stefyzz should have learnt by now that negative attacks on people don't help her, or the community. She needs to learn to use the "law" to mediate between her and others before she starts harrassing and judging members of our wonderful community. -------------- I have been asked in private what my knowledge is about copyright and stuff like that. I have done a few papers in university, and have also been a "auhtor" for over 10 years, and also had to find out my rights before I did electronic posting/stories helped (which I'm sorry - electronic rights still arn't much yet - unless you have the money). In regards to photoshop - I have been using that program for photo manipulation/desktop design and other stuff for about 6 years now - so know a bit about altering one thing to be another. WiNC
The reason I originally posted that backup CD pic was not to derail the thread, but because there was concern that Bobbie was selling a texture which possibly contained elements from Stefy's Asia and it had also not been stated that she was renting that web space to a third party at the time. Anyone would have doubts about a person who was accused of selling someone else's texture and who also sold 'backup' copies of Photoshop and Poser on the side. However, Bobbie said she was renting the space, and I will take her word for it. If WiNC could see and point out such similarities between Jillian and Asia from those pictures alone, then I believe there is a fairly good chance of an infringement being present. I'll admit that I do not quite know why Stefy would be angry about someone editing her texture for personal use only, but (at least from what I understand), Bobbie's texture in question was intended for sale. That is a completely different issue, and it's time for the copyright agents to get off their butts and look into it. Let's try to look at some more detailed comparisons before you all attack Stefy further. SnowS
my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/
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I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.
time out for a moment to correct some false information... Blooddoll the claim that 'If I change something 10%, 50%, 90% I now own it' is an urban myth. I refer you to the FAQ section (quoted below) of the website for the US Copyright Office (http://www.copyright.gov/faq.html#q49) "49.How much do I have to change in order to claim copyright in someone else's work?... Only the owner of copyright in a work has the right to prepare, or to authorize someone else to create a new version of that work. Accordingly, you cannot claim copyright to another's work, no matter how much you change it, unless you have the owner's consent. See Circular 14." umblefugly... I have no idea why you posted the disclaimer from the 'Backup CD' section of the webpage but it has more holes in it than a chunk of Swiss cheese. The two laws referred to (PL 83-703 and 99-474) and the Internet Privacy Act do exist, however they are designed to protect PRIVATE servers from unwarranted intrusion. Since this is (or was) a publicly accessable website it is specifically exempted. Bobbie25... Under US copyright law anyone who provides 'a means for digital transmission of infringing material' can be held liable for damages. The fact that you knew or didn't know the material was there does not exempt you from possible legal action. In this case it seems that access to the material has been removed in a timely manner & under the terms of the Digital Millenium Copyright Act (DMCA) you are safe from prosecution. okay everyone... back to the witch hunt, which is already in progress :-)
Attached Link: http://getafreaknlife.com
ok firstly id like to tell all of the store merchants here who are still nieve and think there products can be protected to wake up !! .. its the fucking wild west out there .. ..if good old bill gates cant stop his products from being pirated .. what makes yu think yu can protect a danm skin texture or 3d model lol .... i mean come on !! jesus, wake ! already. And as for the giving someone credit once yuve purchased the product ..i wonder if i should credit the cococola company for there oh so refreshing drink . or hugo boss .. for allowing me to smell so good LOL ..shall i go on !!LOL
Attached Link: http://www.posercity.com
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stefy, you STILL havent learned, have you? still up to your bullying, strong-arm tactics, huh? im not going to dredge up all the bullshit youve put people through here in the past, nor am i going to get into this argument because i just dont give a shit. i really dont Bravo Blackhearted ... the right words to a person who really needs to visit a psychologist. I do not understand that she can put her harrasm into this without getting banned or removed because she always is going a step to far. Well well this only can be happen here on Ro'Sity and the past is showing that the admin/mods just staying up for the merchants and not for the members too. But who keeps this side alive??? I found a new home by 3DCommune and this would never happen over there.
Clint, you GO man! Power to you, your respect level just grew tenfold in my books ;-) I know better than to get myself all heavy duty into this scenario, but I will say there are very many "incredible" points made here by many that should be taken heed to...STRONGLY!! Seriously recommended reading material....yup... Beautiful days to ya's all, Pete
"For controversial reasons, if you are affiliated with any government, ANTI-Piracy group or any other related group, or were formerly a worker of one you CANNOT enter and view this web site, cannot acess any of its files and you cannot view any of the HTML files." lol! what's this? to the textures: (and not only because i'd like to see the outcome of this thread;)) there are similarities. it's fairly easy to alter original texture in photoshop in couple of minutes so that the other one looks "different". i don't say it's been done like this (or even done) but... btw, it would helped a lot if those textures for comparison would have been put on the same model, with same lighting, no? - the lines on her forehead - some dark sploches around the lips - part of bump map on lips - lines on the neck (very blurred, yet still there...) take it easy folks, don't jump the gun so quick! there are people here that can draw faster then stefyzz :) anyway it's a real SHAME that admins have nothing to say about this!! YA HERE ME?
Lucky for me, I just bought a new Zippo. Didn't know I was going to need it so soon. Ok. Sounds to me like a few things are going on here, and we need to take them step by step and figure out the reasonable explanations. I've dealt with this very issue once before involving StefyZZ, have read her harassing e-mails and IMs, and seen the "proof" she presents to back up her claims. I'm not going to pretend any personal bias on either side, which is what I see happening here. It seems to me we have about 5 different issues: 1. Did Bobbie steal StefyZZ's texture? Personally I don't think so, but I'm not the expert. The MP testers are, and should, at the least, put this issue through the process and let us know their findings, WITHOUT CONCLUSIONS, since this is not a Rosity MP issue. 2. Is StefyZZ handling this matter responsibly? Absolutely not. The proper manner is to approach legal representation, and negotiate, not to lambaste people with harrassing messages and try to tear down their sites. 3. Is Renderosity providing any sort of involvement in this matter? I don't know. I wouldn't think so, just because every time I've dealt with them ( all of them. Every one. More personally than most people will ever know. ) the key idea is to be detached and professional. If an administrator or moderator violates that directive in the name of personal bias, they don't last long, because tammy and tim and audre are 100% about supporting artists and community as their #1 priority. 4. Is Bobbie hosting warez? I don't know. I can't check the site. If he/she is that does not necessarily mean that they should be banned from Renderosity. After all, Bebop hosted warez, and he's allowed back. If it happens on another site, it's not Rosity's problem. Cold, but true. If it spills over here, or if they post links to a site like that, it's a different matter. 5. We seem to be having a silly little clique war. Fuck cliques. I'm friends with Gabriel and Kiera, but if they have a problem, I'll still think about it objectively before getting involved. Same with my feelings toward Blooddoll. I'm also not gonna bash Stefania just because she's caused issues in the past. Let's all take the time to sit back, breathe deep, smoke a bowl, get laid, whatever it takes, to relax, and work our way from point a to b to c before making wild statements and accusations, shall we? This community's had enough problems lately without us creating more out of some infantile need to protect our pals. I'm not trying to directly insult or "school" anyone here. I'm just trying to keep this thread from going nuts with pitchforks and flamethrowers before I get off of vacation. I left my pitchfork at home. :( Paul P.S.: If this thing gets real freaked out, just remember, the power switch is on the front of the case.
hmmmm.. 1. Did Bobbie steal StefyZZ's texture? Personally I don't think so, but I'm not the expert. The MP testers are, and should, at the least, put this issue through the process and let us know their findings, WITHOUT CONCLUSIONS, since this is not a Rosity MP issue. i don't think bobbie has submitted this to the marketplace so the testers wouldn't really be involved in it until she does
As a paying customer my main concern here is not whether or not Bobbie has used parts of Asia for her texture or not. To me this is just another example of very poorly done business. If anyone treats her customers that way, she's not worth my money.
What's next? Michael's and Stephanie's mappings are very similar. If I use my Greta texture on Michael, am I going to get harrassing IM's from Stefy claiming that I don't have a license for the Michael texture?
Give me a break...
I agree that Stefania's methods aer less than professional. I've seen it before from more than her, too. I think it stands to reason that she'll lose business over this issue. However, is it acceptable that Bobbie also lose out? Her site is apparently gone, but can she recover it? If so, should she be allowed to post links to it here? That's the question in my mind.
Entropic Who owned her site? (IE - what ISP was she using)? Also if they are willing to close down her site without first contacting Bobby, they are not a very good site now or ever - and looking on the better side of life, at least she now knows that. No company should remove someone's site just because someone says they should - this is stupid, because it could mean that we as people could close down places all over the place just by saying, "Hey they support warez!" :) With that in mind - personally I would suggest Bobby get another place to keep her webpage/site. Now as for Bobby loosing money - is there any evidence to state that she has? I'm sorry but until all this - I didn't even hear about Bobby. Also - she started with poser according to her gallery in March of this year, and is already selling textures? Look I have been working on textures for a very bloody long time - and I have YET to create something I feel is sellable - and a lot of the work I publish is my own stuff. So I don't think Bobby will lose out - in fact if she is selling her textures then this could be great advirtising for her :) Is bobby is starting to make money already she has done so very fast (look at the Gallery - I only take my assumeptions from evidence I have seen) so honestly - every artist has a set back - one could say that this is bobby's. Not stating Stefyzz is right to do as she has - but I'm sorry - welcome to life, and welcome to the electronic life.
SnowS: "If WiNC could see and point out such similarities between Jillian and Asia from those pictures alone, then I believe there is a fairly good chance of an infringement being present." Well no - just because I could see such similarities means that I could see why someone could suspect. Does not however mean that there is infringement (or even a good chance of it) My comments were that Stefyzz had the right to question - but again - she had the right to question in a professional manner, which she has proved over time she certainly doesn't have.
Stormrage - you can have a store elsewhere :) I presume from information I have been told is that she was selling them on her own site... but then again I don't know that nor can confirm that - nor am I really that interest. Again most of this stuff we can not comment really about without Bobby's confirmation about what she has gained or lost due to Stefyzz's actions - which personally if I was here I would keep them to myself and whomever has the power to do something about the situation. Again stefyzz nor Bobby have been on this forum to state their point of the story - so in all honestly most of us are all guessing and just assuming the worst of everyone. But from the fact provided, the assumption I have is that professionalism was ignored and actions were taken which could hurt a member of our community. And no matter what people say, "Politness and professionalism should be in foremost with any deals with people".
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