Dear John, Mistakes happen - I have already started it was a mistake, and if the editing system for this community allowed, I would have changed the mistake by now. I would hate to believe that the strongest arguements for the Copy Protection is to use my simple mistakes to discredit me.. I will again take it that your voice in this petition is that you also agree that the present security system that Curious Labs are using should be removed. If not - why did you post? If anyone else wishes to attack my mistake - please just post me in private, instead of sounding like broken records... sigh Roll on the maturity...

Add my name to the list as well.

I don't like the present system, but will put up with it. It's not enough to keep me from buying the product. I think of inconvinience as part of the "price" of the software. I give $$$ and put up with the security, I get a great new "toy." IMHO, it's a good exchange. Hardware dongle: WOULD be enough to keep me from buying the product. If I was desk-bound it might not be, but I travel and work on a laptop. CD "Dongle:" not a bad idea, but easy to crack. I have 4 "virtual CD's" on my hard drive at the moment.

Serial Number - YES
All others - NO
What do they plan to do about virtual drives? I boot MS Windows from a virtual C drive.

I agree with this. Consider me signed I wrote a longer post but it didn't go through

But Casamerica's registration went so smoothly! Ah, nevermind, I'm signing anyway. And praying DAZ doesn't pull the same boner when it releases its program.

Or just wait till a crack comes out and use it. I did that with Windows XP after I had 6 reinstallations in ONE WEEK. I finally got ticked off with dealing with MS, and downloaded a crack for it that disabled the registration part of it. It took me making a Clone CD image, running ISO Buster, and then installing the crack into the extracted files. Three burned coasters later I had a working but cracked version of Win XP. I think that this kind of security system is very invasive and disruptive. If linux could ever get out of its diapers before the year 3000 arrives, I'd make the switch. Hell, I've thought about putting Mac OS X on my machine(it IS possible). If this security system/activation system is not removed or altered, I will use Poser 5, but I won't BUY it. If I do buy it, I will search for a crack. When I buy something IT IS MINE. Not the company's anymore. I paid the cash for it, I own it. Car makers don't make you submit an activation form when you buy a car, and Grand Theft Auto is a far more lucritive business than software priacy. So until this is changed, Keep your product CL. Blade

Consider me signed up.

I use Poser on two machines. In order to be legitimate... and transport my Runtime library, I keep it on a REMOVABLE hard drive. I switch the removable hard drive between my work PC and my home PC everyday.

There is NO WAY to do this with Poser 5 because of the idiotic "protection", which I read in a previous post has already been hacked. I own Photoshop and Adobe Pagemager, which are on the SAME drive and which BOTH cost more than Poser 5. Yet, NEITHER of them have a ridiculous "protection" scheme.

Come on Curious Labs, I have supported Poser since Poser 1. I've been through THREE owners so far. And now you want me to put up with this CRAP?! I respect your talent and obvious intelligence... but for good old fashioned "smarts".... you are SADLY lacking. All you've really done (apparently from the post showing a cracked version on Kazaa) is annoy the hell out of (formerly?) loyal customers like me who are your bread and butter!

It's time to wake up, smell the coffee and get your collective asses in gear and fix this MISTAKE! Sure... you've invested money in the copy protection scheme and hate to throw it out. Guess what... SUCK IT UP. It's not worth alienating your loyal customers. Why?! Because it's 500% harder to get a NEW customer, than it is to keep an existing customer.... and that's straight from Sales 101. Existing customers are low maintenace comparatively speaking... but you slap us in the face... or in this case, kick us in the balls, and guess what... we're not going to be your customers anymore.

You strategy might have worked in the days of the Commodore 64, when people of like mind couldn't easily band together. But this forum is a forum of like minded INDIVIDUALS. And what's more... we're artists.... who tend to be not only opiniated and very quick to defend our personal freedoms (or what we perceive as our freedoms), but very stubborn in our opinions and steadfast in our defense of our freedoms since there is always from critique and authority figure trying to wrestle them from us.

And while we might expect this type of invasion scheme from some mega-giant like Microsoft, aloof in their ivory towers, - cut off from its users...

We weren't expecting this from our FRIENDS at Curious Labs. Friends we have supported, talked to and worked with for years. It feels as if we have been betrayed.

So I'll part with a quote from Shakespeare's Julius Caeser, oh betrayer of our trust.

"Et tu, Brute!"

Hi, these are valid and reasonable arguments. Due to over 8 years of experience (working as techie in software-support!), I personally object to dongles and such activation schemes! Its actually too much trouble for users/customers and support, esp after a year and/or the release of a new version! Its imho not too reliable, only very inconvenient and I know of several manufacturers who finally discontinued to use such annoying protection-schemes after according negative experiences/feedback and who still are in business with much more content users. I would recommend to urgently reconsider this unlock-procedure and instead provide a one-time registration with a permanent serial/key! Hubert

I sign too! Thought this whole discussion was over with the non-protected ProPack updates. Thought CL knew what we users think about it. Thought wrong... Sascha

The current scheme is unpalatable. As no Mac version exists (yet), this is not an issue for me (yet), but I agree wholehartedly with the spirit and the points of this petition. It will definitely bear on my decision to upgrade or not when (if?) the situation presents itself. I have thus far only bought one software which used a harware dongle (Nissu Writer), and that protection system was eventually dropped. I have refused to buy a software which used a very similar scheme to that apparently used by CL (it was a font conversion software). I have another software which uses the same kind of "protection", but only because I felt it important to support that software. It was not in earler versions of that software, only in the last update I purchased. It is also becoming irrelevant as it is (most likely) not going to make the transition to MacOS X (other than under classic)... I do register the software I buy, for my personal use and from my personal money, or have bought for for my workaday use and from my employer's money. I therefore sign this petition. Only SN protection, please. Hubert Holin Hubert.Holin@Bigfoot.com

Well I understand about authorization codes and dongle, I have owned 3-D studio max r1 up to r4. Now let's talk about something that had happened to me. Basically I have replaced by hardware many times, with 3-D studio max r3, once you receive a authorization code the software views, the hardware lock for protection to the software. However at one point the hardware dongle had gone bad which let me without max. Had to contact the company for a replacement. However that was lots of wasted time trying to get a replacement. CL is using the same as 3-D studio max r4 for protection to their software, what a joke. And let's talk about computer crashes, I had a major meltdown of my graphics machine, had to replace some hardware, which required me to reinstall and call up the authorization for max in order to get a new authorization code. What a pain. The treat you like you have a stolen copy. Which also required me to re-authorize all my plug-in's for max, what a major pain. Was max cracked. 3-D studio max r4, the same as CL which was cracked. An aversion for 3-D studio r3 was also cracked. I purchase all my software I use, Adobe 6 to 7, all versions of 3-D studio max from r.1 to r.4, poser 4 to 5. However I believe that CL is making a very big mistake, are they at the same level as 3-D studio max, I do not believe they are. Besides as many problems with their software they have just added one more. I wish I would've known about this authorization before I purchased poser 5, because I would not have purchased it at all. Actually I believe poser 4 is the application I will be using the most. However, I do believe they have shot themselves in the foot. I will not be buying anymore products from CL in the future. And I will be looking for a cracked to their poser 5, software to get around this registration problem. Because of all problems that I have had using max I do not need more. Contacting to get authorization for all my products that I own. fdw

I recently bought a newer faster computer.

One of the first things I loaded on my new 'puter was P4.

I loaded it from CD.

When it asked me for my S/N, I just hauled out my manual which has the "magic number" pasted inside the back flap, entered the number and I was off and running.

No dongle, no internet, no authorization, no problem.

I have already bought, and am using P5.

Also, I have already "signed" this petetion ...

• but -

Next time I get a newer computer, well ...

Looks like I'll have to stay with P4. It's mine - without any "strings."

I don't think I'll buy P6.

P5 looks great but to be perfectly honest, when I do a female model, most of the time, I revert back to li'l Posette. With all her MTs she does a pretty good job for me.

Have we gone too far, gotten too complex?
(rhetorical)

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

petetion = petition ;=] (need 'nuther cup o' joe! ;=] )

I think you're looking for the term "Petition". BEsides, if'n you don;t like CL's activation, then don;t use Poser 5 :/ /P

No hardware dongle. No. Dongles don't work either... people crack them. And as a techie, for my workstation clinets, I've spent way too many billable hours trying to troubleshoot system problems that direclty trace to: A) The dongle won't accept their legit installation and serial # and let the program boot, B) the dongle is screwing up the serial or parallel port and not letting periperals work, or C) the dongle is interfering iwth peripherals such as mice and trackballs or graphics tablets not even attached to that port. All usb dongles do is move the problem to a usb port, and with the proliferation of usb devices, that's not a good thing. Phone calls to Autodesk and/or Discreet seldom turn up a good solution. I'm not going to sign. My vote is simple: Customer buys software. Customer inputs serial # from software they paid for. Customer is off and running. CuriousLAbs accepts that software piracy is a fact of doing business and deals with it.

Incidentally, I have yet to recieve my copy of P5 (us academic slobs gotta wait 'til Oct.), but the activation scheme doesn't really bother me... They don't suck out personal info from the drive, they don't attach spyware to it, and they don't have some devious plan for world domination. If Curious Labs does go out of business, there are enough folks using P5 that a business would be stupid not to snap it up; if that doesn't happen, then the code is officially dead and a crack likely would be warranted at that time, if CL hasn't already made a patch to crack it already on its way out. Otherwise, I'm not too awful worried about it. /P

If I had not already been a Poser user the present EULA/Security/registration procedures would have kept me from buying the software. I still use Raydream 5.0.2. I followed that software from Raydream, Fractal to Metacreations. Now the company no longer exists and Raydream is unsupported so I can no longer install it fully on my latest computer. I hope Curious Labs lasts forever but I absolutely HATE that their attitude seems to be if we die to heck with you. If they go out of business I will only be able to use the software I've paid good money for until my first hard drive glitch or upgrade. This is unacceptable to me.

I debated on sticking my name in but I'm going to simply because I've yet to see any "Plan B" should the company fold.

I don't anticipate having any problems with registration as long as CL doesn't sell my email address to a spammer (I report spammers), or require information I'm not comfortable giving out (such as SSN). I don't anticipate having to re-install but if I do have hardware problems I will insist on being treated like a paying customer and not a suspicious thief.

Just the idea that a program I put out money for, could cease to work in the future is enough to upset my stomach.

...No hardware dongle. No... ...I'm not going to sign... Perhaps I misunderstood but I thought this was a petition "...against the present security system that Poser 5 uses.", not one for a dongle alternative. If so my signature stands. But if it is actually a request for a dongle system I withdraw it. - Jack

...If they go out of business I will only be able to use the software I've paid good money for until my first hard drive glitch or upgrade. ...I debated on sticking my name in but I'm going to simply because I've yet to see any "Plan B" should the company fold. In the interest of fairness CL has publicly stated that in the event of their untimely demise a software solution will be made available so that P5 owners may continue to use the program. I'm not sure how legally binding such a public promise would be but I have no reason to doubt this intent. On the other hand, I'm not sure how one could force a no longer existing company to keep their word. Nor am I sure that the financial resources would remain to create and distribute such a patch. I guess it's still a crap shoot. - Jack

"CUSTOMER accepts that software piracy is a fact of doing business and deals with it." I am dealing with it... by not buying. Instead of hurting me financially this decision actually helps. But on the other side... - Jack

It's not our cost of doing bidness, Doc. ;]

Sign me up!

i agree. serial number is enough.

I'm In as well.

This petition is NOT a request for a Hardware Dongle - please read my second post. This Petition is against their present activation security system - and a request for Curious Labs to start dialogue with the poser community to find out which type of security system we are more willing to adopt. We do NOT want a intrusive security system imposed on us, like the present one has been. As we can see already there are a number of people against the Hardware Dongle, which could be as problematic as the Activation System in its present form. However, my personal main concern is the usability of Poser 5 after bankruptcy. With the present EULA and Activation System IF Curious Labs folds (which has been the history with companies and Poser) End-Users of Poser 5 have no guarantee that they will be able to continue using their product. Including all the other issues that have been raised, I can not see how anyone can believe the present security system as it stands benefits themselves or the community? While I will not be buying Poser 5 because of these and other reasons, many of us voicing our opinion here are not doing so for just ourselves, we are doing so for the community and those in the community who have no voices on the internet (those who dont have internet, or access to it). So please before you flame, disagree with this Petition, remember you are not the only person in the universe, and remember that this Internet Community are NOT the only people who use Poser. WiNC

[[Part of what worries me is that since Microsoft XP, everyone seems to be trying to use this sytem. Imagine if other products were like this.]] REMEMBER, Microsoft's GOAL is to eventually have ALL windows software on a pay-by-the-month system which REQUIRES you to connect to M$ for 'authorization' EVERY time you boot up (and if you do not pay them, they can CUT OFF your access to all your own files by remotely disallowing use of their operating system). *** I have had endless trouble with dongles, including one software item I used a lot but the company dropped support for that version and then the dongle went bad and their attitude was "tough shit. Well, now you have the opportunity to upgrade to our newer product" I didn't want their damn newer, MUCH more expensive version which had in fact DROPPED several functions from the earlier version which I used a lot. THere are too many issues with this whole system. I'd need far more room and time than there is here to go into my whole feelings on it. I have stated many of them elsewhere. I hereby SIGN!

Are we wasting our time talking, about this problem with CL, or will we as customers be forced to accept their requirements. Is there anyone from CL, listening to this group of people or users that support their products, I do not believe so. Actually, I believe all we are doing is just venting our frustration here, and wasting our time. I also believe that this place could possibly disappear, as well with the decisions that CL makes.

You're not wasting your time talking. I'm sure someone from CL is reading. Whether someone from CL will reply is a whole 'nother story. ;) I sign.

...Are we wasting our time talking, about this problem... I also think we are not wasting our time. As unpleasant a task as it must surely be CL is very likely monitoring these threads. If there is sufficient indication of dissatisfaction there is a slight chance they may modify their stance. If there is no indication there is no chance. - Jack

Please add my name to the list as well. Thank you. Warm Regards, Nancy Deer With Horns (SophiaDeer)

Had I known about the CP scheme for P5 I wouldn't have upgraded. Tying software to hardware which I may want to change at anytime (drives get bigger and cheaper all the time) is a bad, bad, bad, bad idea. I have a program which uses a very small USB dongle which I plug into the port on my keyword when I need to. The company, for a small additional sum, allowed me to purchase a backup dongle. So I can change computer hardware whenever I wish (good) and I am protected from a single dongle failure (good) but both fail and company is out of business (very bad). Now if there was a way to deal with companies that go out of business (a central repository tools to bypass the CP schemes?) then things wouldn't be too bad. However I don't like CP and I can't imagine I ever will. And as several others have pointed out a new CP scheme attracts crackers like flies to honey. I hope that if CL goes under there is a crack out there somewhere. Regards, Frederick C. Wilt

I agree with you all, except, I think that what we are signing is a PETITION, not a partition. :-)

Here's my signature, too. I won't buy P5 while it has the current activation scheme. But to be honest, I wouldn't have bought it anyway until a year from now -- I like to stay a little behind the curve (you can always tell who are the pioneers: they're the ones with arrows in their backs :)

Signed. However, I do believe that the "I don't care crowd" is always going to be more prevalent than those that do. Since most people will agree with anything - as is evident in a number of threads here - the odds are that the "vocal minority" (as we have been called) will be forced to accept this type of behavior until all of the "personal" aspects are removed from personal computers.

I also wrote a longer post last night, but it's been dropped from here. I have a registered copy of P4 and would like to buy P5, but will not do so while this activation scheme (or any "improved" version of it) is tacked onto it. Curious Labs - go back to standard registration or NO SALE!

I can't use it. It's to elaborate. I have to reinstall to often to use this softwear. About 9x this yr. due to storage upgrades and hardwear conflicts. The year before was similar.

I just felt I should add my voice to this petition to let other companies know I'm not buying softwear like this. I'll just use Poser4 for what ever life it has left then find something different in 3D softwear else quit altogether till some later day. I see a light at the end of the tunnel eventually but alot of companies seem to be getting into alot of oppressive stuff at the moment.

"But don't you find it ironic that although this scheme is intended to combat illegal activity it actually encourages this behaviour in the situation you suggest?"

Ironic? Not really - I find it to be the only answer to what I consider to be a question that is too hypothetical for me to worry about. I also find it a hypocrisy to say in the same post "it's already been cracked!" and "what if you go out of business".  It seems obvious to me that the answer will be to use the crack.

I don't see it as encouraging anything at all, but let's assume it does. The purpose of protection is to reduce the revenue lost to piracy. That's it. The only purpose. Even a system that might encourage piracy in some sectors is a success if overall the reduction results in increased sales.

Enough companies use this type of system to indicate that there is such a benefit -a dn that it is worth the effort.

"There is NO WAY to do this with Poser 5 because of the idiotic "protection", which I read in a previous post has already been hacked. I own Photoshop and Adobe Pagemager, which are on the SAME drive and which BOTH cost more than Poser 5. Yet, NEITHER of them have a ridiculous "protection" scheme."

I am not sure about this - is the response code stored in the Poser directory or in the registry? If it is in the registry then you won't have any problem at all with Poser in a  removable drive.

if there WAS a problem, simply store Poser on the hard drive of each machine and keep the Runtimes ont he removable... P5 allows this to happen easily and that would also solve your problem.

CL has already specifically stated multiple codes are acceptable for this use.

"However, I do believe that the "I don't care crowd" is always going to be more prevalent than those that do. Since most people will agree with anything - as is evident in a number of threads here - the odds are that the "vocal minority" (as we have been called) will be forced to accept this type of behavior until all of the "personal" aspects are removed from personal computers."

I won't agree "with anything", in fact I am vocal in opposition to the things that matter to me... and in this case it comes down to a simple question:

Will Poser5 make me more money then it costs me?

The answer is yes. Poser5 has already created more value for my company than it's purchase price. If CL goes dead tomorrow and Poser5 never fires up again... it's still been a net win for me.

To me, that means it was worth it.

I mean really... if we were talking about XP, where an entire computers' worth of data were held hostage, then I'd revolt. However, nothing is being held hostage here... nothing. Curious Labs will have my name and purchase info upon registration, and if I call 'em up asking for a re-activation, they know full well that trying to make life hard on me doing so would result in my coming here to complain about it, resulting in bad PR all around. CL certainly doesn't want that happening. Now, if the company goes under, then registration will be the least of your worries (not to mention that CL has already pledged to have an official 'crack' sitting and ready to distribute to all paying customers in case of emergency, so seriously - what's the whining all about?) will Poser 5 make me more money than its purchase price? I dunno... I do know that I have gotten enough enjoyment out of P4 and PPP that it was worth far more to me than I paid for it, by some rather large factors. I suspect that P5 will be the same. (AAMOF, the only other bits of software that has had a better ROI in terms of time spent enjoying it were Quake 1, 2 and 3.) I guess I'm just saying that there's more to this than money. /P

...Ironic? Not really - I find it to be the only answer to what I consider... ...I don't see it as encouraging anything at all, but let's assume it does. ... What you say is painfully, reduntantly obvious- except that I wasn't talking about protection, its effectiveness or purpose. The fact is that copy protection is intended to reduce or eliminate an illegal activity. In the hypothetical event that CL goes bankrupt legitimate users will need to crack P5 in order to continue using if they follow your suggestion. Regardless of necessity this would also be an illegal activity. In other words, it would be the direct result of a scheme intended to produce the opposite effect. That is ironic. In fact, it is hilarious. ...I also find it a hypocrisy to say in the same post "it's already been cracked!" and "what if you go out of business". While these words may have appeared within my post I did not say them. They formed a direct quotation of your words. Next time you accuse me of hypocrisy I would appreciate it if you first attempt to get your facts straight. - Jack

1. Not all of us are making money from Poser - we use it as a hobby. Unlike your business use, if Poser 5 stopped working tomorrow for some they would lose a sizeable amount of money depending on their income, and were they are located in the world. 2) Unlike Microsoft, Curious Labs' Steve Cooper has alread admitted their company is/has suffering money problems. 3) Unlike Microsoft, Curious Labs hasn't got the other project/software base to support a protection scheme simular to what WindowsXP and OfficeXP use and any lack of sales because of it. Unlike Discreet 3dMax, Poser 5 is not an industry standard therefore doesn't have the community and user base like 3dMax 4x and 5x has to support its growth. Therefore, please - bar the activtion system, Curious Labs and Discreet and Microsoft have very little in common and can not logically be used in an arguement for defense of Cusious Labs. We might protest against Discreet and Microsoft, but in the schemes of things - hobbiests are small fry to them. While to Curious Labs, we are their bread and butter... 3) To some people a hobby is sometimes a very important aspect of their lives. It is rude to just flush their feelings and hobby away with a statement of unimportance. Just because it isn't valuable data, does not make the program any less important. 4) If Curious Labs goes down, registration WILL be the most important worry. Since if you have Poser 5, you will not be able to activate your copy should your format C drive 5) A Pleadge from Curious Labs on THIS forum is NOT a legal binding statement in the EULA which will product users of this software if Curious Labs folds. Please read up on some form of Company law so that you know where you stand, I have - and unless it is a part of the licensing agreement, nothing that Curious Labs says on this Forum has any legal context in the real world.

I too will "sign" this petition. This "activiation scheme" (as with Microsoft's) only prevents "Don" from installing a second copy of Poser on his graphic-artist wife "Judy"'s laptop. Will they have to buy 2 copies or will CL allow the second installation? (Two computers, 2 copies of Poser, possibly running at the same time.) On the other hand, there's "Mike", who has heard of Poser 5, but never used it. He goes looking for it on xx (that "p2p" program) and finds a cracked version. And, in less than an hour, he's got the full version of the program installed... and without an "activation scheme". His friend, "Vicky" has also heard about Poser and asks Mike if he has a copy. No problem- he copies it to a CD and she installs it... again, without the "activation scheme". Question: Who is this "protection" protecting against? Answer: Not the "hardcore" (or even "casual") "warez user", but the honest person who actually buys the program. Sure the "warez user" has an illegal copy, but he's more free than the "honest user" when it comes to installing the program on his laptop, another PC, or even doing a full re-install. --John

Hmmm. Maybe I'll just upgrade to the Pro Pack and skip version 5. I've already installed P4 5 or 6 times due to hardware and OS upgrades. Count me in. Mitch

[[ I mean really... if we were talking about XP, where an entire computers' worth of data were held hostage, then I'd revolt. However, nothing is being held hostage here...]] Only that, BIT BY BIT, as this type of method is implemented here, and there, and there, and there... - the public is 'conditioned' to be 'used to it' so that when the XP next version with its "pay-by-the-month", and "MUST connect via net to get authorization EVERY time you boot" (or you are cut off from all of what you THOUGHT was your own data) system is implemented, the 'public' will aleady be used to these abusive schemes and will think they are normal. If you don't object to each small chip, and ignore it's happening, DON'T start acting "surprised" when the chipping has eaten all the way thru the trunk and the tree falls down!

Sweet and short...please include me in this petition. I already have two of this security system thingy...the third one would drive crazy. Bill

sigh In a way, I am glad I would have to buy a new machine to use P5. It makes it eaier to not want it! I want XP, I want P5. But, I want to know whats mine is mine. So, no XP, no P5. Somewhere along the line, the idea of ownership got skewed. Let me clarify; if I buy somthing its MINE. To use, resell, abuse, burn, ignore, reload or whatever. Any other notion of ownership is absurd. P5's system amounts to a limited lease on the software. I will gladly register my software, I will not rent software. I will not let anyone use my resourses, or tell me how or when I can do anything with my belongings. Adobe has dozens of programs out, makes tons of money, and seems to be quite happy with a reg number. They must lose millions to thieves. They spend their money on software, not security. Good plan. CL released a beta (by the looks of the bug reports) at a price that would make Adobe blush. And then tells me what I am going to do with what is mine? BAH! They spent money on USELESS security (the warez monkeys broke XP before it was offically released, for god's sake!!) and forgot the software. Opps. smiles I will keep plugging away in P4, and be happy I don't have to wonder who is watching me do everything.

Sign me.

I'll sign. I gave my reasons in other threads before. Though a Mac version isn't out yet, I am already thinking over the pros and cons of upgrading. This security is a major con even after the bugs are fixed. I'm a pro pack user and as many a poser fan will tell you, I have spent many times over the initial cost of software in extras. If CL is in a financial bind, why not add a team to start a support products division. This would be much more accepted and supported than a security system By the way, I live in NY and don't lock the car or the house. I don't even know where the house key is.

i will not buy poser 5 in it`s present condition