Question folks: What is the fastest way to have questions answered about a particular product, and clarify acceptable use of said product? Is it: a) Bash the vendor in the forums until they either come across it themselves, or somebody unrelated to the issue decides to email the vendor and let them know about the situation. b) Post your question politely in the Product forum* c) Email or IM the vendor and ask your questions of them directly* * example: I'm unsure about this section of your EUL. Can I do such and such with your product? or I can't figure out why your product does [insert anomoly here]. Is this a bug, or is there a better way to do this? The easiest way to figure out the answer/s is by asking yourself another question. How would you prefer to be treated if the customer/merchant roles were reversed? Have a little respect for eachother folks. A little goes a long way.

I have to disagree. When people do "A" I usually ignore them and add them to my list of crazy people to avoid. "B" almost never happens but I try. "C" gets a response everytime. It is presumptuous to assume that vendors read every post everyday when email is almost always included with the product. To me posts are usually more of a way to publically pressure people but not always. Some people are known for that tactic. You know, the ones who wield their credit card like a sword. :) Just my personal and long standing opinion. Just Anton this time, Anton

Here on rendo? It would be A, definetly A. Anything less would deprive all the other Renderosity users the enjoyment of a flame filled thread that keeps going and going until it is locked by the admins. No one should be that selfish, so please choose A.

I guess I've just been lucky...nearly every time I've had a question about a product and sent a message to the vendor, I've gotten a polite response within a reasonable amount of time. There is a "d" option, which I have also used...contacting Clint H. if the vendor has been difficult to reach. He has always replied and helped facilitiate thing. Usually the vendor isn't trying to be evasive but is simply away from the computer for various reasons.

Who an I to respond, but : most of the users are mostly upset by the lack of active feedback by CL. Let it be this forum, another, or at the CL website, but give feedback to your customers. 1. Knowing that your problem report has been read. 2. Knowing that someone is looking at it. 3. Getting a response or a question for more specific info. 4. Just knowing that CL is working on it would stop most of the agressive talk. I can not complain. On my Athlon 1000 with 393 Ram and ATI card, it works. Slower as P4, but not by mutch, and no hang -ups since beta 5. Give your clients a time-table. A priority list. My personal priority would be the face room, but my system works OK. There are people crying to get P5 to load properly, or to render properly. They schould come on the first spot, but I would like to know when it is my turn. Trying to be helpfull, Tony

I usually both IM and e-mail and I have never been anything but pleased with the responses. You can never go wrong with the "do onto others" theory. Diane

This isn't about Curious Labs in particular. This is about other items on the marketplace, a substantial number which are not produced by Curious Labs but by independent vendors.

I guess no one remembers how upset everyone got when the creator of Yuma said her products couldn't be used commercially. I don't remember a lot of restraint and common sense then. I apologize to Xenia I'm having a really bad day and it hit me wrong. Marque

Everyone can have a bad day, and I hope the situation was resolved appropriately since I realize it had the potential of impacting your livelihood. I also understand that you had a previous experience that cost you dearly. For me, personally, I just think the forum is not the place to start when one has a complaint to lodge, unless the purpose is to hurt the reputation of the vendor. That's just me. But I've had a hard day and I may not be thinking clearly.

My favorite one was the guy who called me an idiot and when I got mad he said I needed to learn to take crtiticism. Anyone remember that one? How is being called an idiot offering criticism of the product? "Yeah you bought something from me so you get to call me names now." I don't think so. I'm not a good damge control person. Never have been. But I think there is a difference between frustartion and violence. I have seen some really decent products abosultely destroyed and their creators driven off. So who does that serve? Of course that is over many years so the instances in my mind may be greater than to other people.

It would be "C" But I use the 3 strike principal.... I email or IM the merchant....no response--strike one... I email or IM them again, usually with a cc to someone else that meay be able to contact them...this may include a post here or on another list....no response...strike two... It is then time for action....I really don't like to be ignored more than twice, and I'm not having strike 3 called on me...so then its time for out of the ballpark, serious action....If after totally making an ass out of myself, and totally slamming and hammering the offending jerk....a response be forthcoming--then the apologies are issued and the event is left to fade away into the sunset...otherwise its torch time.... Having said that, I've yet to have a merchant here on Renderosity not reply to one of my questions or requests. This also goes for ALL of the Poser product merchants I've dealt with at other sites...perhaps I've been lucky:) If I were a vendor, however, I think I would have some sort of autoresponse to emails if I were going to be away for awhile...at least we would know what's up. IM here may be a bit different, but a message is bounced back if the person gets the message.sooo, if no bounce back, they probably didn't get it.

Personally I choose to send a polite e-mail. If no e-mail addy is available then I will politely IM the vender. I choose this after reading about one poor vender who was so overwhelmed with IMs that they left Rendo because "I can't even get to the forums through all the IMs". Then you have to be patiant as a vendor who is popular will surley have a LARGE InBox as well. Persistance is my weapon, but careful not to over-do it, then it becomes nusance and that too is negative in my favor. I haven't really had a bad experiance here nor else where with venders. Several little things I just put an effort forth and fix myself, anything I can't I just ask - politely, as if I where another sending a request to myself..

I want to add that there were three products I bought which I had questions on and I got very prompt answers when I emailed the vendors. The answers came within 24 hours.

Don't forget the witch-hunts! I guess that would be E. Where you post accusations publicly and try to do as much damage to a merchant as possible before using any semblance of a professional courtesy. Nothing like burning them at the stake. mmmmmmm steak.

I've been lucky so far. I would prefer to get "C" out of the options, but so far, I haven't really been hit with any of them. The few contacts I have gotten, either in IM, email or forums, have been on our free items, and they've invariably been of the "Where do I find such and such", "How do I do so and so", or "cool, thanks for posting that" nature. I'm one of those that igohigh mentioned: I have a packed inbox, but I do my best to reply to emails within a day or so when I'm able. Every great once in a while, an email will get buried under others and overlooked.

I have to admit one piece of customer service that I rather like is when the vendor IM's me and thanks me for buying their product and offers their help if I run into any problems. I know they are sending the same message to everyone, but it still makes me feel good about the transaction. It's nothing I would expect every time, and I know some vendors are too busy to do it, but it is still a nice touch.

Another favorite is when someone gets mad at you when you try to discuss things with them privately and they post your im's publically. Or start a thread jsut about you.. .......noooo that's not terrorism...not a bit.

Marque, this wasn't directed at you exactly, but the sheer volume of complaint and bash posts about vendors, products, and freestuff. I know I shouldn't bother (it's certainly not going to change anything), but it just gets to me sometimes to see people behaving so thoughtlessly toward eachother on a daily basis. People have this habit of sparking off about things that they do not understand, or misinterpret. People would much rather post an inciteful and insulting message to the forum about how such and such product is crap, or the EUL is unfair, or the vendor is unscrupulous instead of actually trying to resolve the issue. And no, I haven't forgotten the SteffyzZ incident/s. I think a lot of that was due to misunderstandings, and that people got angry and vengeful, instead of trying to reason things out. If you are having trouble with your telephone service, or a discrepency on your bill, do you stand in the center of town and scream about it, or do you contact the phone company and get it resolved? Why can't that same principal apply here? Now, if you contact the phone company, and are unable to reach an agreement, then decide a public decree of foul play is warranted, I can understand; but to start bashing the reputation of a business without even trying to resolve the issue is not only futile, but rude, and just a little crazy.

Feeling silly about yelling all day in the center of town? Drats, I knew I was doing something wrong. You're right Momcat, and I've been just as guilty at some of this stuff myself, it's easy to fly off the handle and say "look at me, I'm pissed" when your just white text on a black field. On the other hand, we did just help make a "how to be a cyber 3d jerk" handbook in this thread. ;) Doug

IM's and emails should always remain confidential. I have never had a problem with vendors in this community. I try to treat people with respect and I have been lucky enough to have that reciprocated. I continue to beleive that a site such as this should never be used to apply pressure on anyone. It's a waist of energy and IMHO, counter productive. Q

C should always be the first option. Emailing is best, but give the vendor a reasonable time to respond. If not the next step would be IM then contact the Store admin where your purchased the product. To bring it out in the public forum makes me think that the person has a personal axe to grind with the vendor and it wouldn't have mattered if the vendor would have answered the email or IM immediately. The other thing I could never figure out is why would someone complain in a public forum at a site that the product isn't even for sale at? (I've seen this happen on more then several occasions) Why wouldn't they go to the site where they purchased the product and try to resolve it there? It's a huge assumption to think that all of the vendors have the time to scan all of the forums and they are supposed to because they are vendors. Not true. It's not their responsibility to keep track of what is being said in the forums. They have a right to reasonably assume that if there is a problem with one of their products someone will contact them personally. And what Momcat said above in the last paragraph...exactly! Pendy

Ok quixote, prove it... buy all my store items and we'll see if you complain. ;) Doug

"and I know some vendors are too busy to do it, but it is still a nice touch. " That one, Dailyn, I'm afraid that we may be all a bit gunshy about doing often. There've been situations where people have complained about being "spammed" with IM's or emails from a vendor - so a lot of us think twice before sending a "Thanks for the purchase" IM, or using the "Email all purchasers" links.

sturkwurk: Stop or I'll have Georgy call you a member of the axis of evil!!!! Hey! we have great role models, don't we? Q PS: I'm waiting for the canadian dollar to find it's wings. The Vic 3 package (burned and delivered) was $147.00 Cnd... Outch!

I know that, Ironbear, that's why I don't expect it. I guess I'm one of those weird customers who likes to hear from the vendors. I like it when someone tells me, "hey, if you liked that item, maybe you'd like to take a look at this item," or when a vendor drops a note and says, "I noticed you used my model in your graphic and I really liked it." I don't blame anyone for not doing it...there seems to be an itchy trigger finger on the flame thrower in this place. I'm just saying, this one customer appreciates the extra attention. I've had vendors point me to related freebies, give me suggestions on how to better use their model, let me know where I can find another item that might help me out. They've been very nice to me and I am sorry that bad experiences have caused them to have to cut back on customer service when I think they are generally just trying to be helpful. My two cents. I think it's worth .25 cent today.

Inflation gets us all in these economic times. ;] jots Dialyn down in "Ok to spam" list ;] Coolness. I try to put our "Other products" and "Coming eventually" lists in our product and freebie zips in a folder where the customer/downloader can find them and delete them easily if they want to, but where they can be found by someone who's interested. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that there's vendors who've abused those systems. It is a shame that it makes vendors who wouldn't abuse them gunshy about contacting customers, though. I enjoy dealing with people like Wyrmmaster, Billy-T, Xurge and others who do take the trouble to send a polite heads up on occassion in the form of a "Here's something new that you might enjoy".

As a Customer, I do like the fact that some vendors take the time to assist in answering questions, helping when you don't know what to do etc... Even if it is just a question before you even purchase anything and if you decide in the end not to purchase, I would watch out for other products from that vendor and if there are things I like, I will definitely support him or her.

This is interesting. I wasn't sure myself when I found a problem very recently on a product. I was wondering if a product had been tested here using P5, not mentioning which product it was. The answer was that unless the product specificly says it's for P5, it may not be tested in it. This caused a problem in that the mesh would render just fine in P4, but in P5 a part of the geometry wouldn't take the texture, but came out black. There was also a minor morphing problem. One of the moderators asked me privatly for the product and the MP link. I gave it to him, and also emailed the vendor. It was forwarded to the tester to take another look. The vendor emailed me back asking for a detailed description of the problem, which I sent. The product is still on sale. I'm waiting to hear back from the vendor (not mad yet, it IS the holidays). However, I do expect some sort of resolution within the next week or so. It's the first time I've ever been even mildly unhappy with a product. The funny thing is I've seen renders with the new product, and in all of them, the part of the geometry is off color. Was I the only one to notice? I think the plan of attack should always be to email the vendor, and if the problem is a basic flaw, to let the MP manager know for a review, so that if there is a real problem it can be pulled until fixed. Then if you don't get satisfaction in a week, go public in a nice way. This will let people be warned and increase pressure. Going any further is pretty useless. Just write it off and never buy from them again.

On marketplaces, with a DSi store item, it doesn't hurt to email either Dthuregrif or myself on a product issue, in addition to the vendor. We can sometimes help with contacting one of our vendors, or possibly on troubleshooting a problem til the vendor can respond to you. And we really don't bite. Ok... I bite. But I try to not bite customers. ;] Diane desn't bite. ;]

Due to the nature of my hottest selling product I think it is only right to IM my customers thanking them for the purchase. This IM comes with a bit more though. It isn't just a thank you but rather a notice telling my customers where to upgrade and get more add-ons. Without this IM many of my customers would be left in the dark about new updates since the last upload to the store. This also leads to the "IM all customers" option when a new patch or add-in is created. How else do they know? Once again it isn't a plea for more money but rather a notice of additional features or a better product without spending more. I only started doing this after the updates to the P-Wizard started hitting my site. Due to the many thanks I get from my customers I may continue to thank each and every one of them after a purchase even after the full product is complete and re-uploaded to the store in it's full glory. I feel my customers deserve it. As for the original question, I try to instill the idea that the best place for support is a direct e-mail to me. If you prefer to post in the forums please e-mail me the link so I know it is there. How else can I help? Very few others can help with the true technical problems, but I have noticed various users have gotten familiar enough to help in the standard usability areas and for that I am greatful.

If you read the README file of the recent Marketplace products, the "vendor" is required to supply an email address which they can be reached at. I have recieved emails and promptly replied. Sometimes "vendors" do have busy schedules and don't get around to checking their email often sometimes - I would say give the reply a week before contacting admins or sending another email.

Well if i might make a sugestion . It is a bit confusing if some one wanted to seek help with a product and you look over to the list of available choices and dont see one . Heck untill today I didn even know there was a fourm for customer support untill a thread i was in got moved there and how could i when its labeled Store contact . That was a silly thing to call it.

looks over the thread I definately agree that emailing the vendor is a better idea. I have only once had trouble with contacting a vendor, and it turned out it was my antique browser not liking their form. For vendors here, if all else fails ask ClintH. He's a very cool dude and totally on top of the market stuff :) Option A annoys the moderator ahem and does nothing but tell the world that you like conducting all your personal business in the middle of the street. If you want the Poser community to think badly of you, that's a zip dandy way to do it. My only quibble is a weird one ... if you give someone your product for free, or buy something for someone else, make sure they get on the email list for updates. I've actually had trouble with that one Lyrra "E-mail. It's a privilage, not a right" Madril

Hey Lyrra, I'm glad to see that, at least for today, you're not "the overworked."

well I've had many days off in the last two weeks, so have caught up with a bunch of things. crosses fingers lets just hope it stays that way

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you, too.

Have reading the messages over here, and I'm agreed with Anton the best way to have answers from a vendor is to e-mail her/him You must live literaly over here to have the time to read all the messages. If someone needs to contact me here is my mail addy: virus@propsguild.com Best Regardings And hope you all a HAPPY NEW YEAR.

Virus - I read all the messages and agree with you :) Thank all ye gods that I'm a speed reader, that's all I can say

LOL Lyrra know how it feels :)

Just a small practical note. If you send someone an e-mail through the renderosity e-mail facility, the return address they get is the one you have entered in your Renderosity profile and unless you put your name in the message, the recipient won't know who you are. If your e-mail addy is out of date, the person you sent the message to won't be able to reply to you. I've had a few enquiries like that and it frustrates me no end that somebody out there is waiting for a response and I can't send it to them because I don't know who they are and I don't have a valid e-mail address for them. For that reason I prefer IM's over Renderosity e-mails.

(my turn to rant) I think I play each situation differently (let me try to explain): Most recent occurance was PWiz (by Kattman). I didn't talk directly to the vendor because I knew it was a popular topic at the time and I figured lots of helpful people would hop in and help. Which they did. I HOPE I didn't display the product in a bad light--anyone who knows me (dialyn, for one)--will note I usually explain that I'm an idiot...so that is usually the blame for me having trouble...not the product. IF I have time on my hands (meaning several "Poser" hours available to me), and I'm stuck, I will post a message for help in the forum...hoping to get help right away. Again, I try not to portray the product in a bad light...just saying I don't understand something. If I am done for the night, so to speak, then I will IM the vendor for help. 'Cause I don't need an answer right away. In this regard, I have always gotten answers within 24 hours. Falling into this category are Anton, blackhearted, hmann, and ironbear (to name a few off the top of my head). As a side note, I have sent questions to vendors about their products (before I purchased) and gotten answers as well. (ironbear, and others I can't spell) I agree with dialyn. I get lots of shit in the mail. Most is spam. BUT, I like being on a mailing list for Poser-related stuff from vendors I have used. Kromecat (sp?)comes to mind. And, I think, all email I receive from vendors comes with an option at the bottom to be removed from the list. Now, without any experience as a vendor, I would offer the following: It's a very competitive marketplace out there for "Poser vendors". The best way to find yourself a desireable choice is to: (a) Have a quality product (b) Appeal to a large sector (duh!) (c) Be available (d) Spend a little extra time on documentation. HTML or PDF would be a professional touch. If necessary, add a dollar (or two) to the cost for it. Believe me, there are lots of newbies out here whom you can make feel comfortable (read: potential future buyers). Heck, I just helped someone above who was discouraged because she didn't understand converting bump maps. (e) The last item I have to mention is done by ironbear the best: Offer a few add-on freebies, show some pics of the product, and pay attention to your product usage. There! I'm done.

Was your question: "Which option should a person choose?" or "Which option does a person choose?" The answer would be (A)- make a big stink in the Poser Forum. Bash the product by publicly asking if anyone else is having the same problems. Start a long conversation about how it doens't work and how the vendor hasn't bothered to join in the thread... but DO NOT actually contact the vendor and tell him that there is a discussion about his product (or that you're having a problem). It's much better to let heresay and speculation answer the question than to get a real, correct answer from the "horse's mouth" (or, rather, the "vendor's mouth").

I think A would be the most effective, along with sending an email to the vender, alerting them to the post(after you've already gotten a heated debate, of course). If the vender doesn't participate in the thread within a reasonable time(I'd say about 48 hours), just download some windoze anon. email programs, some of them have an option that you can send hundreds of emails to the person. If 1 email didn't do the trick, this always works

I don't really know if that is an option on windoze, I'm a mac-user, so if anyine has this problem, IM me, then I can email you the program that I created, which is much faster then the commercial ones(2 emails a second-try leaving THAT on for an hour).

Thanks Chuck. I'm sending you your check for the marketing plug as we speak. g Seriously, appreciate the kind words.

Just the way I see it IB. Chips fall where they may. Sometimes the chips are coins from a casino and other times they are cowchips...grin. In this case, good chips for all since I can't remember having problems talkiing with a vendor.

Ajax made a good point up there though - it's important to make sure the profile email addy is current. Otherwise, mail from here will never reach someone. May not matter for non vendors, but for a vendor depending on being contacted if there's a problem, up to date contact info's critical. Ditto for email addies in readme's and docs, even if it means putting through an "update" on the product just to make sure it has an updated readme.

Chuck, I remember that one, finally found the thread myself if I remember correctly and others had already answered. Sometimes the user base here can give an answer quickly if the product is popular. Other times it might still be faster to go direct to the merchant.