I couldn't figure out where this thread should go so guess I'll leave it up to the mods - bless their souls :P

Poser merchants, the Poser 5 material room is like a wet dream. Not only does it give you mondo versatility and control over the application textures but it also allows for Poser 5 users to apply YOUR awesome textures as if they were MAT posed. I don't know all the techy mumbo jumbo but what I do know is that I can apply a raytraceable texture to a figure with one click and THAT ROCKS.

But I only see a handful of merchants taking advantage of this most awesome feature of Poser5 - like we're all still married to Pro Pack and are scared to take a leap forwards.

Yes, Poser 5 was a buggy machine when it came out, but right now it's rocking and if you are tired of the Poser 4 equivalent of SHINY METAL = DULL PLASTIC then please join us in Poser 5. Ajax and Trav have free massive P5 material paks out that are fantabulous and yet the MP merchants still crank out dull plastic P4PP ready generic quality dribble and charge for it when they could be blowing us away with LIVING textures!

What is this marriage to Poser 4 and Pro Pack? I thought we were just dating.

This customer will support all merchants who support Poser 5.

rammy

Message edited on: 08/10/2004 10:07

heh. Good to hear. I can use all the support I can get. Picked up any magic of late? lol

no, that was too flippant. sorry. The most simple start is the material settings -- they are easily included (just save the shader trees to the mt5 library), and don't even show up in a P4/PP installation. to be fair, on the flip side, P5 users need to shell out the dough, and need to do it more specifically. Instead of buying the latest ProPack designed set that looks ultra cool, buy the slightly less cool version by a different merchant that has more shaders. Also, truthfully, good shaders are hard to make well. The sets that I'm in the process of designing all have various water shaders and are designed from the get go to work well with the Shader nodes -- something else that's tricky to do without a good understanding of the nodes themselves. The cloth room is starting to really begin to be explored, and I am certain ya'll will see some very cool stuff coming out shortly -- the idea is there, just the execution is waiting. The hair room is still stubbornly being used sorta backwards by most, and the variety with it is only be experimented on to a limited degree. The face room is being the best of them -- and the output has been pretty darn incredible :) Since I use the default figures very heavily in my commerical work, getting new faces and ones that are not "pretty" all the time has been a blessing. the cool stuff is coming. But the P4/PP users still tend to spend more heavily -- and the market is only just getting to the point where it's moving out beyond fetishwear and the standard fantasy stuff. More niche products are succeeding. Is a good time. Just moving too slow for some of us, lol

Perhaps it is because I never use P4 or PP and that I mainly work with another app that I prefer to do my own settings in P5. After getting the habit of moving the gradient bump to the real thing, I started adding textures in the MatRoom. Poser becomes much easier to use when one gets rid of all those mat files. Shaders are, of course, nice, but not a general solution for everything. But that is another discussion, and off-topic here.

The problem (for me, anyway) is in order to take advantage of those materials one must use the Firefly renderer. And, even at its lightest settings, the thing is so gawdawful slow compared to the P4 renderer. For a person (like me) who makes large, complicated scenes and constantly does test renders, Firefly is unuseable. Maybe if Poser had an area render feature it'd be different, but alas...

I just bought it Ynsaen. There is money in this market folks. Poser allows an idiot like me to learn a few 3d words and make photorealistic renders without much effort. If you are a merchant you are in the wrong business if you think releasing an untextured 3ds model is going to make you rich. The merchant who consistently offers the most versatility and quality is going to get my money. In any other business do you bitch to your client about how hard it is to make Poser 5 material files? Folks, Poser 5 beats the shit out of Poser 4 and Poser 4 Pro Pack. Anyone here who knows me knows I am the laziest SOB in Poserdom - I want immediate gratification with the least amount of brain work. If I can render a scene with 5 DAZ Victoria 3's with Firefly, shadows on, with a high poly set in the background without waiting 30 minutes for it to render and YOU ARE then you haven't done your research and are bitching and complaining about something you don't fucking understand. The Poser merchants continue making Poser 4 !!!! CRAP !!!! because so many veteran Poser users continue using Poser 4 even though it sucks limp glands compared to Firefly which just kicks it all over the playground simply because of some PRINCIPLE they hold near and dear to their heart about the good 'ol days of the Poser community. In Poser 4 you have to fake mirror effects. In Firefly you render the fucking mirror effects !!! AS IS !!! WITH P5 MATERIALS!!! The buyers of Poser are holding Poser potential down by their principles of being married to a dead horse. Yes Poser 5 sucked when it was released and perhaps it pissed people off but it now is kicking Poser 4's ass all over the basketball court and there's no reason to continue wearing it's wedding ring. ram

All my latest freebies are textured with P5 procedurals. I still UVMap everything to ease the use for P4 users, but I hardly ever mess with textures as jpgs anymore, not if I can help it. P5 shaders are so much faster to make and they look better, at least of a lot of things. While I still try to maintain a certain degree of backwards compatibility, I also feel you have to look forward. Noone writes Win3.10 applications any more either. (My commercial stuff uses P5 procedurals more subtle, with a free item you can be a little large to the fact that it may not work for all, or that people will have to add a texture themselves, on commercial stuff, not explicitly marketed as P5 Only, you have to make sure it works for all)

LOL! I guess I am bitching about something that I don't understand! Although, I have never bitched as far as I remember..........I just don't use P5. (: I have it from the beginning (ordered it prior to release) and still can't seem to get back to learning it. Oh well.....it will be there when I am ready.(:

...sigh... I greatly prefer P5 nodes for my stuff, but I mostly broker with a site that doesn't support P5, so I can't include the P5 mat poses in my for-sale stuff. I did include my (then) current library of P5 materials with my Ichiro Fantasy set freebie. It may be time to repackage my materials and offer them as a freebie. Quim has a number of new textures that take advantage of P5. There are some nice materials available in freestuff. Over at rDNA there's a ton of free P5 materials. I've got ynsaen's sets on my wishlist.

Sorry for coming off so crass but I jsut don't get why Poser 4 has become the Holy Grail when it forces merchants to squeeze their creativity so much as compared to Poser 5. I apologise for going off. It just confuses me. ram

RAMNIMUS.. because merchants have to put their pride where their mouth is. There are not enough P5 users to justify "P5 Only" products if you do this for a living.(which, thank God - or I would have died of starvation a long time ago - I do not). Some merchants have tried, there are some characters and morphs out for Judy which REALLY makes her usefull, but as from what I have heard none of those merchants are yet in the Hot20 of merchants...

P4 stuff works in P5. P5 stuff doesn't work in P4. I can see asking for P5 specific MAT files be included in packages, but asking for P5-only stuff means cutting off at least half the potential market. The hair room is still buggy for me. Yes, I have the latest patch. I've also seen very few decent P5 hair models. Dynamic cloth - I can't figure that room out even with tutorials so why buy dynamic cloth? I'd rather take 5 minutes and post work any poke-through with a regular, conforming cloth. Firefly is freaking slow on my machine and in many cases looks a lot worse than the P4 rendering engine. Shadows are more-or-less wysiwyg with the P4 engine. Firefly's shadows seem to be random. (And the latest patch screwed up one type of shadow anyway - I can't remember which one.) The way I see it, about half the users may have P5 by now, but once you look at how many of them are successfully using the advanced features, that potential market for P5 only stuff is far lower. P5 functionality as well as P4/PP is fine, but most merchants can't afford to support P5 only. Cheers!

I don't see where anyone is asking for merchants to support ONLY P5. I see people asking for P5 support. Here and at DAZ. Forget the hair room if you want. Ignore dynamic cloth if you must. Pretend Judy and friends don't exist. But for god's sake make P5 compatible MAT poses. Please. I am about tired of hooking the bump node to the right spot, and I know of like five products that use something other than the main diffuse node for skin. There are python scripts and free utilities to help you get around various quirks with P5 node based MAT files. Use them. I am one customer who used to spend at least 100 bucks a month on Poser stuff. Now I spend maybe 20 bucks every 3 months or so. Why? Because I have to do more than half the work of making stuff work well in my preferred application, so why should I spend my money on merchants who don't care about me?

Kiera stated it perfectly.

MY conforming clothing sells 10 - 1 from my dynamic and that is a conservitive estimate, once they start selling I will start providing.... Although I do have a dynamic version of my freak tunic in with the conforming one in the marketplace but I have no idea what the selling point is LOL

That said I am making a dynamic set with p5 shaders for the girl.

Message edited on: 08/10/2004 13:20

Please don't misunderstand me....I am not "knocking" P5......I am sure it's great and I have seen many, many, great results using it. At the time I purchased it, I suppose my computer was not capable to handle it, or I was not capable to handle the "render" time.....so I did not bother to learn all the new funtions of the program. I didn't like the render speed..........but that was two computers ago....so....maybe.......I will try again soon? I still would like to see the merchants, to support, P4 and ProPack.......because no matter what........that is my preference. I do all my posing there.....and then render it all in Vue4. I guess, it's just a matter of opinion.....or how much money you want to spend on your hobby. (not saying that this your hobby, but it is mine)

yeah it is totally a hobby for me as well, I have tried really tried to find something I like playing with more, but always comeback to poser :)......and you guys

I'm going to have more to say on this in a few moments...

Hey, I agree on the "P5 as well" idea. I'm just saying that "P5 only" still isn't feasible yet for most merchants if they want a decent return on investment. (It wasn't clear to me from the initial post which was being request.) Cheers!

Quarker (?) has been in the top list a few times, and Farrah is my favorite Judy morph set. Rammy, it's ok -- I've gone off a few times about this myself. Not excusable for bad manners, but I definitely understand the sentiment. Here we are, in a group that is a majority in number by several (not just my own) measures of the market (recent promo stuff from CL at various places has indidcated the P5 user base is larger than the P4 user base), with many new features, and: 1- the largest content shop gives it short shrift (the individuals brokers through it do not, but the store itself does) 2- older, more heavily time invested creators are buried in old politics and ill will, and unwilling to open their minds 3- we have wonderful new tools, but so far only a few folks have really bothered to see what can be done with them. 4- as I've noted elsewhere, P5 is so darn new in so many ways that everyone is at the same level with it. As folks master it and adapt to it, there will be more stuff coming out, The slow acceptance (due in a great part to that poor functionality at first) being the greatest blow to it. 5- That hot 20 is still mostly composed of folks who don't develop for P5 for various reasons. And as long as the hot 20 -- which is determined by sales -- continues to be dominated by P4 product, that is what everyone will make. that first and last one suck the most. The first because it acts to further hinder and complicate the creation issue, and the last because the top 20 are there becuase they make the best selling stuff (ie, the stuff tht people are willing to spend money on). I will keep making no secret of the fact that Odd Ditty Foundry supports P5 in every product to some extent, and develops with P5 in mind. I'll go one more, too, and say now that if someone can't broker a P5 item through a different site, they can broker it through ODF -- at an equal or better percentage. (caveats - no exclusivity, still gotta pass our testers, and we're still tiny) It is most certainly a "P5 as well" thing -- P5 only is entirely limiting, for the reason I noted earlier: P4 users spend more money and are generally more familiar with the program than P5 users. Money has the loudest voice.

One other point is that most software companies would stop selling an older version which forces new users "forward", thus bigger demand. They would also promote, encourage, host, and/or subsidize new 3rd party add-ons. Unfortunately, CL's financial woes have largely prevented them from doing this and I think this has also hurt the P5 market. Best; Dan

Attached Link: http://http://www.keindesign.de/stefan/

Okay time for my 2 cents lol.....(i seem to have alot of 2 cents lately lol) okay first of all the renderengine.. poser 5 does have the option to switch to the poser 4 render and back with the option to ignore shader trees or not. Poser 5 allows you to create render settings for test and Porfessional renders seperate so speed is no excuse just set it to the non professional part and set the options properly there are tons of sites out there with explinations on what to set it at for speed or quality (link above is one) second the Clothing room i do admit that the cloth room is a bit hard to get use to and not many publish enough info on it to there tutorials and/or sites but it does have lots of possability if people would just utilize all its options like hard decorated areas and such. The hair room.... basicaly it does blow so far as to the type of stuff out there that is available but i am sure that there is someone out there that can do something about that. i think the hair room was rushed and is a little too basic and could have been done better by CL but we all know that CL never rushes anything (rolls eyes at to the sarcasm in that statement) as for supposrting eather -4/pp or P5 why cant you eather supply runtimes for both or sell 2 diffrent packages for each. it cant be that much more work to zip 1 extra file. the meterial room..... yes it takes a bit to get use to and for someone to get high quality results you have to make a ton of nodes and settings but when you get use to it and know what your doing it is a breeze (like everything else out there in life) the amazeing thing about the material room is that you CAN get great quality with little work. the only down side i see is the face that if you make a saved setting in the material room say for Ve's head the nyou will have to select each head material area and click the saved node setting and do that for EACH Material section for the head. as for the poser 5 stuff not selling and people not useing Poser 5 . 1: there arnt many things out there for Poser 5 people to buy so they have to settle for the P4 stuff 2: people dont use poser 5 much because there isnt hardly anything out there FOR it. not the P5 People........ THEY SUCK. they look funny and is kinda hard to make look diffrent with NO MORPHS. okay i babbled i steped on toes and i not only stuck my foot in my mouth but shoved it down my throat as well lol shyly exiting room Grace37 ^_^

one last thing If it's worth doing, Its Worth doing well. think about it

brevity being the soul of wit, of course...

aactually.. check out the Products from Sixus1 and his team. we DO support both Poser 4PP and Poser 5 and have at times helped out Poser 3 users. the products come with MAT files for P4pp and P5 and in several cases, shaders for P5. ;)

If I can delete the useless P4 files merchants dump into my runtime with their zip files then I'm sure the P4 users can dump the P5 material files dumped in theirs - although they wouldn't know what they were missing out on.

Message edited on: 08/10/2004 14:35

"If I can render a scene with 5 DAZ Victoria 3's with Firefly, shadows on, with a high poly set in the background without waiting 30 minutes for it to render and YOU ARE then you haven't done your research and are bitching and complaining about something you don't fuing understand." Ah here we go again, yes, it's the user's fault. Sure. "Poser 5 allows you to create render settings for test and Porfessional renders seperate so speed is no excuse just set it to the non professional part and set the options properly there are tons of sites out there with explinations on what to set it at for speed or quality" Yes but, as I mentioned in my first message, firefly is still dog-slow compared to P4. Speed isn't an excuse; it's just another valid reason to not use Firefly. Plus, as Cresent pointed out, you're not really sure what you're going to get with Firefly. Especially when switching settings.

lol Grace: "not the P5 People........ THEY SUCK. they look funny and is kinda hard to make look diffrent with NO MORPHS." um, quick question: What do you mean about no morphs? They have several morphs. And no, I'm not talking about the face room (which uses their morphs, I should point out) and Jackson: Gimme a scene to render. I can render it -- knowing what it will look like -- in firefly just as fast as I can in P4, if not faster. It's a matter of the settings used.

correction....not was suppose to be ...now
also
from what i looked at on the P5 people the only morphs i seen were emotion morphs. but upon second look there are morphs but not quite as many as daz people :P i would like to see people catagorizeing morphs like they have them on judy and don instead of them all being jumbled into one long massive list ^_^ (but they are still funny looking)

and to the message about firefly...if the poser 4 rendering engine had as much to calculate and render "Precisly" it would probbaly be 2 times longer them poser 5 the thing is, is that the p5 rendering engine can acomplish alot more and yes still in a good ammount of time for what it has to do i mean good quality and presision is worth waiting for if you worry about rendering time instead of quality then i suppose your one of those ones that want it all and want it now me i was raised on the premise that good things are worth the wait. ^_^

just being...
Grace37 ^_^ p.s.(added) judy still has minimal morphs that make it very hard to get characters out of her the only eye morphs she has are for emotion and the first thing i would want to do is change her eyes. mattar of fact as i play with her (again after a long while) most of her morphs for her head are all emotion based or vocal. and the body morphs are porly constructed it almost looks as if someone is playing with clay and cant get a smooth outcome the nipple hide morph turns the nipples into dents lol) and really LMAO does she really need a morph to turn her boobs into torpedios (cone morph) yes they have morphs but the morphs wernt done carefully lol. rushed comes to mind.

Message edited on: 08/10/2004 16:45

One thing I didn't notice mentioned (maybe someone did..) is this.. To create for Poser-5, you need to have Poser-5...Some folks cannot afford to buy it..and they don't give us free copies for creating content either.

not the P5 People........THEY SUCK So does every Poser character straight out of the box, including the glamorous Ms. Vicky. But the whole point is to provide a basis so you can do something to make the characters unique. Remember unique? I know, I know, with all the cookie-cutter images, it's sometimes difficult, but trust me, it can be done.

Uh, Sean? This is Renderosity, sacred home of cookie cutter images Originality is an alien concept Just my cynicism baring it's fangs "Yes but, as I mentioned in my first message, firefly is still dog-slow compared to P4. Speed isn't an excuse; it's just another valid reason to not use Firefly. Plus, as Cresent pointed out, you're not really sure what you're going to get with Firefly. Especially when switching settings" Who in their right mind is going to piss around with an obsolete bargain basement scanline renderer, that uses reflection maps only for gods sake, when they can use a REYES renderer with vertex displacement mapping and raytracing 'Firefly is still dog slow' Tried using other 3d software with displacement and raytracing? Unless you've splashed out on one of the high end jobs and the hardware necessary to run them then you're going to spend a lot of time twiddling your thumbs waiting The problem is too many people want pro results whilst only paying hobbyist prices

Attached Link: A useful P5 figure...

It's apparent you haven't loaded up the morphs that are supplied for Judy on the content CD, and that you are unaware that Judy, Don, Will, and Penny's morphs are specifically designed to be used with the Faceroom -- which allows you MORE morphs than victoria 2 has when you buy her (and far more than you get when you buy Victoria 3, since her morphs have to be bought separately). Body wise, her morphs are actually designed for use in tandem with each other -- those "cone shapes" are because you haven't used other morphs which affect the shape of the figure. But that's all beside the point. If you don't like them, don't use them, hon. I only mention this because your statements indicated you were not familiar with them. you may very much be interested in picking up the figure linked to here, then -- I think you will be pleasantly surprised by her... lwanmatr brings up a very good point, especially for non-US residents that touches also on Xena's experience with Poser 5 (which has been worse even than Jackson's...). Poser 5 is fairly cheap here in the states at around 100 bucks US, but outside of the US it's still running a pretty penny at current exchange rates. Xena, who bought it when it first came out, paid considerably more for it, and lost money on it. It is hard to develop for what you do not have and can't afford.

"...Who in their right mind is going to piss around with an obsolete bargain basement scanline renderer..." the impatient. This is one of the points that Veritas has been making frequently of late. People see games that have cool graphics and expect they can get that at a click of a button (and, well, they can, if they buy well...) and that they can get it to move and react just like it does in the games. There's nothing wrong with instant gratification. Provided you ar satisfied with what you get for for that instant...

About the P4 Vs the P5 renderer.. yeah Firefly's slower.. know what? Lightwave's renderer is slower too.. and so is Maya's.... know why? they do more, and work harder. About P5 support... I just don't know any better. I use P5, and develope P5 and I can aways use MPE to make P4 mat files, and P3DO explorer to make RSR files. When I make those concessions for P4/PP users, it's more out of sympathy then anything else. They can't do some of the "cool" stuff, but at least I can make their life easier. That may sound crass, but I just about always upgrade to the latest release of anything, and hate living in the dark ages. And not supporting P5 and it's abilities will just hurt the poser community anyway.. people look at the older P4 renders, and compare them to the state of the art, and P4 looks sad in comparison. Firefly might not be the best thing out there, but at least it helps keep Poser a little more state of the art...

"But I only see a handful of merchants taking advantage of this most awesome feature of Poser5 - like we're all still married to Pro Pack and are scared to take a leap forwards."

That's part of it. I don't mean to offend anyone, but most of the Poser merchants are not all that technically skilled and it shows. Clothing fits badly, the meshes are a mess, the included morphs are minimal, the textures are bad etc. Thats not everyone, there are some people turning out simply amazing work. My point is that Many merchants really don't have a good grip on the technical stuff, so I think making the leap to P5 is either beyond them or simply to scary to contemplate.

There is also pride involved. So many people predicted that P5 would never be good. That the firefly rendered would never be useful and that any day now Daz Studio was going to change the world. To start working on P5 stuff now would be to admit the obvious - that P5 is a good product and that Daz Studio is nowhere near ready.

"but I mostly broker with a site that doesn't support P5, so I can't include the P5 mat poses in my for-sale stuff"

Is this for real? I know that one well known site does not support P5, but if it turns out that they are actively preventing merchants from including >optional< support for P5 that is really going to signal to me that they just don't "get it". Come on Daz, say that isn't so!?

"Why? Because I have to do more than half the work of making stuff work well in my preferred application, so why should I spend my money on merchants who don't care about me? "

Perfectly well said. I'll still spend $$$ on those few merchants who are SO GOOD that it is worth the work to get their stuff working right... but the borderline stuff? no way. Not anymore.

"Plus, as Cresent pointed out, you're not really sure what you're going to get with Firefly."

Welcome to the world of real live rendering engines. To me? Its a worthwhile trade off. The P4 renderer lacks so many of the basic, bare necessity tools needed to use it for serious work (for me) that it isn't even really an option. Max, Softimage, Maya, Firefly - any decent engine will give you dramtically different (better) results than it can show you in real time.

Hopefully, this is an indication that the threshold has been hit, and there will be more P5 stuff coming out. While I haven't trod the face room yet, the cloth and hair are starting to make more and more sense, and the =potential= there is amazing...even more so when you consider this is a 'low end' app. What we're lacking, when it comes down to it, is people like Traveller who grok P5. Posette was a disaster, until Trav worked his morphing magic. Vickie wasn't much better. And Trav struck again. Xena and Steffy made their names with textures. Yamato awed us all with the first transmapped hair. P4 took off and flew because of crazed weasels like Ajax and Nerd (among quite a few others), who took bugs and made them features. DAZ support, frankly, isn't that vital. It would be a godsend for us poor P5 users, but people seem to forget that for quite some time, -they- followed =our= lead. The innovation is still out there; look at Ockham's scripts, and what they've allowed others to do. Look at what WierdJuice has created with Metaform (and if they ever figure out a way for it to work with VuePro and P5, watch out world). The people who've staked out the position that hell will freeze over before they touch a Cl product again....well, that's their stance. No one has the corner on innovation. If Vendor X either can't or won't, then move on, find someone looking for a learning challenge...or maybe even become an innovator yourself. Most everyone here is a creator of one sort or another; sometimes all it takes is stating a problem and asking for any solutions. Now, about that point light....

I do agree with Gareee on this subject. Not about Maya and Lightwave thou, their renderers are far more faster than the Firefly, about 8-10 times (Ive tested it many times, well, not tested really, used them instead). They also do not share Poser5s problem with using your computers RAM. But why should you use a rendering engine who are about 12 years old? Why on earth would you satisfy yourself with the few material options in Poser 4/4PP? Maybe because you do not have enough RAM in your computer, thats a legitimate cause, not enough CPU is too. The latest 3d-geometry and textures do take a lot of resources, so do the rendering engine. A not legitimate cause (I think) is because you do not want to learn the few changes between P4/P5 or Its much faster with P4, then (I say), you do not really care about the result!

" About the P4 Vs the P5 renderer.. yeah Firefly's slower.. know what? Lightwave's renderer is slower too.. and so is Maya's.... know why? they do more, and work harder."

Oh god, no. Maya, 3dsMax, and (I think) Ligtwave all employ "hybrid" renderers, and are much faster than the P4 or P5 renderer (as well as being more powerful), even with raytracing. Lightwave aside, these other apps also have plugin support for "3rd party" renderers as well, like Mental Ray and Vray, which can render a scene even with true GI as fast or sometimes faster than P4 or Firefly can render the same scene with "fake" GI (depending on many lights you have casting shadows in Poser).

I posted benchmark tests here before using V3 in 3dsMax under the Vray engine, and rendered a 640x480 image using GI and glossy reflections in under 4 minutes. High quality glossy reflections alone in Firefly would take twice as long with just 3 standard lights.

I think the nail was hit on the head earlier when someone said that everyone here seems to demand pro-level speed and quality at hobbyist prices. In the case of P5, I think we're getting MORE than our money's worth already.

:-) Message edited on: 08/10/2004 22:04

I agree with lwanmtr some people just wont be able to afford poser 5.

ive returned that crap of software back to my software dealer. i am using p4 again, and im so happy with it (^_^). how and why should i do p5 material when im not working with p5? im very glad that im missing the poser5 features.. easy spoken, i DONT miss them. i will do my future models still for p4 only, if someone want them to work in p5, there are ways to accomplish that yourself.

ok, I'll rise to the bait. I'm nuts, so it's easy :) How you should return to that software is by returning to your software dealer and paying for it again. Why is that by using P5 you could have achieved the level of detail in your one product with less far fewer polygons and achieved greater detail, as well as increasing the realism of the textures. Outside of that, based on the single very nice product you have, it's not going to do you much better. but you did, however, entirely miss the point of this thread. "I will do my future models still for p4 only, if someone want them to work in p5, there are ways to accomplish that yourself." The point of the thread is that Poser 5 users are actually tired of doing it themselves, when it isn't difficult for merchants to make the objects fully functional in Poser 5. And that really is a cool looking gun!

Some merchants forget that support and attitude are as vital as a product line when it comes to attracting and keeping customers. Some brokerage houses forget that also. There is a critical mass of Poser 5 users, and that mass will continue to grow. Monthly. A merchant should look not only at what sold 6 months ago, but what will sell 6 months ahead... and prepare to meet it. The nature of free enterprise is that the more enterprising merchants can stake out territories. If your brokerage house refuses to let you market the full potential of your product, perhaps it is time to wipe the dust off your shoes. Columbus was from Genoa, but had to go to Spain befoe he found someone to back him. If he had stayed home, he would have been merely another bitchy small-town merchant instead of governor of a wealthy territory. (He was still bitching on his deathbed, but he was a rich bitcher.) Yes, there are risks... but navigating the materials room is easier than learning the spherical trig required of a mariner. Yes, there are fickle winds... but damaged pride is survivable. You can keep trudging the same country lanes selling the same trinkets to the same customers, and think you are safe... but what happens when they go to market and see the bright silks and fragrant spices? So? You can keep your eyes and feet on a well-worn path, or you can look at the horizon and map a course. Carolly

The point of the thread is that Poser 5 users are actually tired of doing it themselves, when it isn't difficult for merchants to make the objects fully functional in Poser 5. True. IF the merchant HAS Poser 5. If not, it's kinda hard to set up the material nodes. But stuff like non-ballooning props and such is something ANY merchant could do. Sure it's hard(er) to check if your bevel/vertex split actually DID the trick, but it's not impossible. And again, it has a lot to do with attitude.

what alot of people are missing in this thread is the fact that it is aimed at people that are able to provide poser 5 compliant products as well as p4/pp but refuse or just will not do it. the thing is, alot of us out here see the amazeing stuff that is created everyday for P4/pp and want something like that for poser 5 but just arnt as knoledgable as alot of the merchants are. alot of the merchants's out there can do it and prolly could do it with alot of ease but just wount because they dont like it or dont thing the p5 users matter enough. you all make wonderfull points all of them are good points but the point of the matter is this....we are to the point of BEGGING the merchants that are able to provide Poser 5 stuff and wont to PRETTY PLEASE start accessing this wonderfull resource we want to be able to acces it ourselves with content just like we can so easily do with P4/pp. we all love your products that you make and we see the possability it can achieve but so many are happy with what they do have and not with what they could have.

i babble it is like 4am for me (somewhare abouts) and my bedtime is 10 pm LOL basicaly the lights are on but noboddy is home. i dont mean to come off as a crazy freak babbling what ever comes off the brain but.......HA! there i go again wish me good sleep i havent been able to sleep good lately lol. and trust me if i could figure out how to do all this neet stuff i would be selling tons of high quality stuff i just cant seem to grasp it i say we get all the people who HAVE mastered certin aspects of P5 and get them togather and see what they can collectively create like the animation master and the script masters and the textureing masters and the meterial masters ect..ect ..ect could you imagen the outcome...drool...kewelies ill have dreams of amazeing products danceing in my head lol..........ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzz

snoreing loudly
Grace37

Message edited on: 08/11/2004 05:23

As ynsaen noted earlier: OK. We'll support P5. And Pro Pack. And Poser 4. And Poser Artist. And the offer made earlier stands: Odd Ditty Foundry will broker for any merchant that cannot, for some reason, broker a Poser 5 product (including support) at an alternative site.

(psst - poser 4 is poser artist ;) )

As a merchant I have no problem with the idea of supporting P5. The problem ,for clothing makers at least, is that in order to fit garments on the third generation figures like M3,V3, etc.. you must have joint controlled corrective morphs, because those figures have them. That's why they can bend their knees better than the original Posette etc... This must be duplicated in the clothing and driven by the figure that is wearing it. In P5 Curious Labs disabled the crosstalk that made this possible. CLothesmakers have begged for a limited crosstalk to be reinstated but it has not happened.

Amen, Dominique! You have it exactly right!

Just to add salt to an open wound (or to put it another way), for those who don't support Poser 5 and won't, what are you going to do next year when Poser 6 comes out? Many people, myself included, are planning to purchase it and looking forward to it. Are you going to pretend it doesn't exist (much like 5) or are you going to finally come into the new century and support it?

Just to add salt to an open wound (or to put it another way), for those who don't support Poser 5 and won't, what are you going to do next year when Poser 6 comes out? Many people, myself included, are planning to purchase it and looking forward to it. Are you going to pretend it doesn't exist (much like 5) or are you going to finally come into the new century and support it?