Ok, most of the threads on this are getting long. I have a couple comments/questions on this. 1>> Exactly how many computer changes would CL consider "reasonable" Some people change computers every year. This doesn't mean that I can afford to update Poser.... It costs a pretty penny to own Poser now, a price that apparantly is caused due to pirating. So now buyers will be forced to pay the high cost and then have to worry about installing new hardware and how often they change systems? Or does this new protection mean that you will be able to lower the price? If the high cost is mainly due to piracy and your new system will prevent that, then logically the price of the software should drop. 2>> It has been commented in the news several months back (by a few companies who were willing to actually admit this) that the pirated software did them no serious damage. Those using illegal copies would not have bought the software anyhow. They couldn't afford it. So since this protection will be cracked (probably in less than a month after it's release) and will be just as easily available on the same warez sites that currently offer poser, how will this new system benefit the user or CL?? I honestly don't see a benefit here for CL or for the user (and I'm honestly trying to). I can see angry and frustrated clients and a drop in sales. People simply don't like having things in their system they have no control over. Wares maggots will still break the codes, the software will still be readily available. You say that you will recognize the registration of the warez software. Well, after I legally buy my software I don't really want to think that you are keeping a record of me (feels like being finger printed and accused of something I didn't do). Not to mention that a hacker may hack it without needing to register it, so that won't work either. So the price will stay high for legal users, they will have additional problems/worries with it and warez versions will still be available, where's the difference?

They stated themselves that they will give you 3 chances to register and obtain a key, and after that you have to contact them and they can give you additional ones on a case-by-case basis. I would use up 3 in a few months, my hard-drives dont last very long.

I don't agree with what they are doing. We have no guarentee that Curious Labs may not close down and we are left with a useless piece of software that we can't put on any new systems we purchase or any updates we do to our current systems. I read the little note about that on the Curious Labs site, but I didn't find it comforting at all. This isn't going to stop warez pirates. It's only going to make it harder on legal users. I have no intention of installing anything on my system I can't control. I have no intention of spending my hard earned money on a piece of software I can't place on any new system I buy without calling or contacting someone to get "permission" first. I am not a damned child or a thief and I don't appreciate being treated like either. When I frst bought Poser I was so pleased. I thought I had found a fun and easy to use program. It no longer seems as fun and easy to use. I won't be updating or buying from Curious Labs anymore. I certainly understnd their desire to stop warez, but at the cost of loyal customers....that I don't understand. I don't feel like being punished for other peoples activities, so consider me one customer lost.

That they feel 3 times is reasonable is ridiculous. Any serious computer user (ie one whose career is based on their computer) willchange systems more than that. I do not want to get permissinfrom them to keep my poser after I change systems. I noted here once before that my previous system crashed, on the freeway in an accident. I lost alltypes of paperwork as well. So if I had lost the proof of my poser ownership I couuld no longer use my psoer as I wouldn't have proof of ownership. The way they are going about it it would be easier for everyone to get a warez version instead of dealing with all the potential problems (not advocating warez, just a statement), heck you'd only have to wait about a month tops for someone to crack it. You could count me as another lost customer... Sad thing is that another company will take advantage of the client's displeasure and another program will come out to replace poser, maybe not as easy to use, but it will happen. Then there will be serious lose of revenues for CL as people buy the new software to avoid the hassle of jumping through hoops to prove they aren't a thief. I have noticed that CL hasn't answered how this will STOP warez, because it won't.

Actually it is for three machines at the same time. Not three times only that you will be able to to the registration before buying a new copy.

Its not for three different machines at the same time. They clearly state that you can register each unique hardware identifier 3 times, and after that you have to contact them to register again. That could mean 3 installations on 3 separate computers. Or it could mean 3 harddrive changes on one computer. I didnt say that after three times you have to buy a new copy -- just that after 3 times you HAVE TO CONTACT THEM in order to get it to work. They will "work with you to give you more keys". You are at their mercy.

This seriously sucks considering what you have been working so hard on. I guess we will just have to concentrate more on other programs as far as our personal stuff goes. :-

Yes, well there will still be users of Poser 4 and Bryce (which so far doesn't have software protection). So I'll keep working on it... LOL

I totally agree that this is a very bad Idea. I usually upgrade systems at least once a year. That along with hard drive upgrades and operating system reinstalls would make me seriously look else where for a character animation program.

LOL! I left some messages for you at your forum. And your right...there still is Poser and Bryce as they are now. LOL!

LOL! 3 times! I upgrade my hard drive like 4 times a years. And that's just upgrades... not counting when the drives crash and I have to replace them! Since I use removeable drives... the transporting seems to decrease the life expectancy. No problem, since I buy drives with long warranties... but now I have to worry about re-installing Poser AND getting a new key... which I will now have to call CL for after the 3rd time and HOPE they will give me a new key.

Has anyone thought of contacting CL. If we bombard them with email about our dipleasure, maybe they will think of another way. works on other companies that seem to care about the fact that the majority of the current users won't buy the new version for some reason. I constantly change drives in my machines. just ask maxtor what kind of a customer I am.

I have read all these related post and feel I should comment. First it is obviuos to me that most people who have posted do not own more expensive 3D apps. The more expensive 3D apps not only have a dongle you must use but require you to go through the same key code procedure Curious Labs is proposing. Dongles can be a pain in the ass. If they die you need to get a new one which can take several weeks. I think the direction Curious labs is moving in is not all that bad. It will slow down warez but not eliminate it. I understand their need to do this. If they dont you might as well kiss Poser goodbye. What does that mean? Well if you have an extra $5,000 lying around you can purchase Max and Character Studio have to deal with a dongle and a key code. I support Curious Labs efforts. Every major software vendor is implementing or has implemented similar procedures. Ron

Guess what? Dongles don't work either. I was searching for .3ds on Altavista the other day looking for furniture files to use with Poser and guess what I ran across. A warez website with 3D Studio Max and a crack to eliminate the need for the dongle. I don't know if it worked or not, I didn't download it, and since the site was on Geocities I sent them a mail about a warez site on their servers and the site has been taken down, but I can imagine hackers could find a way to crack any and every possible measures that any software company takes. Sure, it might make it harder, but it won't make it impossible. The new Poser will be up on warez board 3 days after release instead of the same day. What's the difference? We're all going to have to pay a higher price to buy Poser because of hackers anyway. I don't know what I would do about the situation if I was them, but I CERTAINLY wouldn't add any frustration to my users. That's one sure way not to sell anything. People like convenience, and if they can't get it, they're going to go somewhere else. And if they can't find it somewhere else, I'm sure CL is going to have to hire a HUGE new taskforce for their tech support, which will cost so much it will probably defeat any extra sales they manage to pull from would-be pirates. LadySilverMage, I completely agree with you, I think that any "sales" that are lost to hackers would never be "sales". Our neighbor's kid when we lived in an apartment used to stand out on their patio talking to his friends about all the "warez" he had, and 99% of them he downloaded and never used. He just got them to say he had them and impress his hacker friends. He never in a million years would have bought Poser, and I think that most people who seriously want Poser to use, and especially to use professionaly, are going to buy it anyway. I bet that anyone who downloads Poser from a warez site uses it to play around, and gets bored with it in a few weeks anyway. More than likely they could have gotten the same use from the free 30 day trial. But you're totally right, I bet anyone who downloads it never would have bought it anyway, because they couldn't afford it. And they still wouldn't have bought it, even if it wasn't out there for free. Whatcha wanna bet CL sees no real increase in sales due to the new measures? I'd LOVE to see the statistics on THAT one!

Attached Link: http://www.curiouslabs.com

1. We never based the price on piracy and won't. We set our price based on development costs and marketing research. I think it's a good deal. Campare it to Character Studio for over $1000. And the learning curve is not as steep. And there's a lot of content and a wonderful Poser community that provides more content than we ever could. You don't know that the protection will be cracked. We don't know that it won't. We do know that other companies using this type of protection have been very successful. We're just trying to make it difficult for Warez to use and distribute not for you to use. **************************** Steve Yatson Product Manager Curious Labs Http://www.curiouslabs.com ****************************

2, 3, 4.) Again you don't know that it won't stop warez. we feel that it will and that's our objective. If you register and threby prove ownership, then you won't have any problems. There were warez sites that were serving a few hundred copies a day. If we require registration we will prevent the use of those warez distributed seial#s by allowing only reasonable use. Poser is no less fun than it was or no more difficult to use. Registering in this manner is quicker and easier to do than most other web transactions. I can't believe that that's all it would take to get someone to stop using Poser. **************************** Steve Yatson Product Manager Curious Labs Http://www.curiouslabs.com ****************************

1. Feel free to contact us with your opinions and suggestions. I'm steve@curiouslabs.com. There's also a complete list of emails and phone numbers on our web sight. I think everyone here at CL is reading the threads though. We really do value what you have to say. This is a really good thread but check out some of the others if you have time. **************************** Steve Yatson Product Manager Curious Labs Http://www.curiouslabs.com ****************************

1. 1. 1. Let me clarify. You can register each serial# 3 times. The copy that is on one machine cannot be moved to another simply by copying it. Two different aspects of protection. You'll spend less time emailing us for additional installs than you've spent on this thread. Yes Poser 4 is still wonderful as is, and will continue to be regardless of whether you're required to register or not. Even if you don't upgrade to 5 or the Pro Pack when the time comes, you can count on continued support from CL. **************************** Steve Yatson Product Manager Curious Labs Http://www.curiouslabs.com ****************************

I think what everyone is worried about is not that they have to spend time to get the information, but the following two points. #1 What if Curious Labs goes out of business or sells Poser in the next few years. Then how are users going to get their registration information after the inital three uses? I know you probably don't see that happening, but I don't think anyone ecpected Metacreations to sell it either, at least not in early versions. #2 Customer service from many companies is rather lacking. I'm not sure how the support at CL is. I've heard good things and I've heard bad things. But I think alot of people are afraid that they might have a big computer crash in the middle of a project that is about to be due, and that they will ask for another registration and have to wait several days for a response. Not a good thing. You have to admit that this method probably will increase your need for tech support staff. Do you think that this might increase your overhead? Do you think the increase in sales will cover it? If not, you may end up having to increase the cost of Poser just to cover the new tech support staff that will have to spend time helping people with registration problems. I have had my system crash five times in one month before (about 2 years ago) and I'd hate to have to think of calling or e-mailing to get new registration information two times in a month. :( I'm not trying to be negative at all. I understand your need to protect the software, I'm just trying to be sure that CL is prepared for all of the problems this may cause, too.

"We do know that other companies using this type of protection have been very successful." Steve, which other programs using a "similar" (read: hardware coded serial key) are out there that have proven successful at stopping piracy (or at least reducing it)? The only thing I know of right now using this type of protection is Windows XP and Office XP, and it's a bit early to say anything about their success (or lack thereof). I'm more knowledgable about OSes and such since Poser is more of a hobby, but I really don't want to jump through hoops to use it. That's also why I won't get XP anything. Windows 2000, although expensive, didn't make me jump through hoops to use. Thanks for taking the time to be involved on here, I know we all appreciate it.

Non HW: Max 4 uses it. I have yet to find a crack but that's not to say that it hasn't or won't be done. It's been out since around January. Pixels 3D seems to be successful with a similar scheme. I've seen cracks for older versions but keep in mind that as this technology advances, it will become more and more difficult. Both make it much more difficult to obtain additional uses for serial numbers. And again by successful I mean curbing warez. We won't make you jump through hoops. **************************** Steve Yatson Product Manager Curious Labs Http://www.curiouslabs.com ****************************

clsteve, as I have said before, I still have to see a hardware or software protection scheme which holds for more than one week of serious attacks. In your previous post you talk about Max 4 and Pixels 3D. If you go to www.tracker-tracker.com (a portal for everything related to Hotline servers) and do a file search for both, you get at least 20 hits each. The same for almost every other 3d software package, both high end like Maya and low end. You can even find Zygote models! I bought Poser 13 months ago in Italy (since I'm italian), through the then distributor for MetaCreations products in Italy. I could never register the program. And I can not register it now. My experience with this "administrative" side of Poser leaves me a bit skeptical regarding my ability to install and succesfully use it. If I will buy the Pro Pack or a new version of Poser with the copy protection scheme on, I probably think I will try to remove it, just to be sure I can protect my investment in the product. What else would you do if you were me? Maci

There were warez sites that were serving a few hundred copies a day. If we require registration we will prevent the use of those warez distributed serial numbers by allowing only reasonable use. If the warez version needs a serial number. Ref other replies about hacked versions. In the days of DOS 5 in the students' computer room at work I saw a student using an Autocad for DOS that he brought in with him on floppies, hacked so it didn't need a dongle.

Thanks, I checked it out. There's a lot of Max stuff up there. And a lot of the stuff from this forums store. Is there actually a crack for Max 4? I found one download and it turned out to be 3.1. If there is it's not showing up on usenet or warez that I can find, but then it's not my thing. I hope we can turn your skepticism around. I'm not sure what you mean by needing to remove the copy protection to protect your investment. It's kind of the opposite. The copy protection is there to protect your investment. In the end paying customers determine the survival and continued improvement of the product you purchased(your investment). The more people that get the same thing you paid for for free, the less return you'll get on that investment. I keep saying this but it needs to be said, if you buy the product we'll give you the best support we possibly can. If you don't then we'll make it as difficult as we possibly can for you to use it. **************************** Steve Yatson Product Manager Curious Labs Http://www.curiouslabs.com ****************************

"Non HW: Max 4 uses it. I have yet to find a crack but that's not to say that it hasn't or won't be done. It's been out since around January." It has been done. Period. Maci is correct and you are wrong. The crack breaking Max 4 and making it a fully authorised commercial version has been out for some time now. We are in what? April. Assume the crack was only done last week (unlikely). Then that particular vaunted software protection (by a very large software firm for their $3000+ package) lasted 3 months. Poser is so popular (kudos to your product) that I doubt less energy will be expended by the crackers on cracking the ProPack bugfix than in cracking Max 4. I would speculate that the crack for your planned protection will simply fool the program into never asking for online authorisation, making duplicate serial numbers moot. By all means implement your protection, but at least be realistic about what it is aimed at doing; preventing picayune copying by people who never look at warez sites. It won't succeed in "curbing warez"

1. 1. 1. Let me clarify. You can register each serial# 3 times.<<< So, for me who has already performed 4 systemn upgrades in 9 months, I have to buy Poser again every 9 or 10 months? No thanks. >>>2, 3, 4.) Again you don't know that it won't stop warez.<<< Yes, I do. >>>Max 4 uses it. I have yet to find a crack but that's not to say that it hasn't or won't be done. It's been out since around January.<<< It has been cracked. >>>Pixels 3D seems to be successful with a similar scheme.<<< This one I am not aware of. I do not know if it has been cracked or not. >>>Both make it much more difficult to obtain additional uses for serial numbers.<<< The best crackers will make the requirement of a serial number moot. The cracked version will not need a serial number at all. Count on it.

clsteve wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I keep saying this but it needs to be said, if you buy the product we'll give you the best support we possibly can. <<<<<<<<<<<<<< Unfortunately, buying it will no longer be enough. We will now have to register it and be subject to the whims of your protection system, which appears to place secret files on a deep level of our hard disk, amongst other things. We must give you our money - fair enough, and then be beholden to you forever - not. >>>>>>>>>>> In the end paying customers determine the survival and continued improvement of the product you purchased... <<<<<<<<<<< Assuming most contributors to these threads are paying customers, and the ratio of expressed opinions is typical; this is definitely a concept Curious Labs needs to keep in the forefront of its collective mind.

Attached Link: http://www.curiouslabs.com

I make no assumptions either way. We keep it in the forefront when doing anything that we do. Yes you will be required to register future versions. And you will not be able to copy it to any computer to use it. If you need to move it or install new or additional copies you'll need to contact us in some manner. Again, let's keep this in perspective, it will most likely take less time than has been spent on this thread. You make a good point. You are not beholden to us any more than any other consumer in any other arena. I truly believe that if, and after, you actually experience this, you'll continue to use Poser and will realize how seemless this is. Dare I say assuming you're a paying customer. :) Sorry, I had to. Cybersmack me! **************************** Steve Yatson Product Manager Curious Labs Http://www.curiouslabs.com ****************************

All I know is that if when I do my upcoming reformat and I go to reinstall Poser and I can't...I am gonna be ONE Pissed off lady!!!!

Yes you will be required to register future versions.<< I have no problem with having to register. None at all. But when I have to continually re-register everytime I upgrade my system, then I start seeing those hoops you were talking about earlier. And when I still have received no direct answer as to what happens after my third system upgrade, then I start seeing flaming hoops. And if I truly will have to re-purchase Poser after every third system upgrade or if I will have to endure the Curious Labs' version of the "cyber court of inquiry" and explain why I upgrade systems so often (which is none of their business), then I start seeing flaming hoops with crossing laser beams and particle torpedoes. >>>If you need to move it or install new or additional copies you'll need to contact us in some manner.<<< And after the 3rd "contact"? I am sorry, Steve, but this is sounding like one of those hoops talked about earlier. >>>Again, let's keep this in perspective, it will most likely take less time than has been spent on this thread.<<< But the time spent in this thread is by choice. Not by mandate.

I guess the best way to combat software piracy is to offer a high end quality product, with a competitive price, adding it the need to have a very good distribution. I had to buy poser at USA because I did not find a metacreations dealer here in Mexico, Untill now I was not able to find a Curious Labs dealer here. Thanks to corel now I'm able to buy Bryce here, but once again, small software companies don't even bother to open new markets like the spanish speakers. Discreete, has worried about this market when they released Max in spanish version, but we are talking about Discreete, which is a good stablished and serious 3D software company. The lack of interest of new markets by small companies or the unability to contest in this markets, has a significative influence in the last consumer's price, Why? very simple the offer and demand law. I wish sometime in the future CuriousLabs take the decission to grow as a company and open new markets with their unique product.

You know, part of any relationship is trust. Unfortunately Metacreations conduct has a lot to do with that trust when it comes to poser as a program. I invested a lot in Metacreations products and bought into their promise of reasonably priced upgrades. I thought that this meant that if I put my pennies in the bank I would promote the r&d and the life of hte product. In my opinion this security thing has come along right after Poser has been upgraded "formally" and as a customer base CL has to recognize that there is still mistrust about the here today gone tomorrow metacreations mess. I for one think that as a Poser user, I am willing to invest some trust in CL since they have really gone out of their way to recognize us. The business aspects require certain security issues to be addressed, and maybe it is possible that CL will be able to do a better job than did Metacreations in keeping track of its users. Maybe I am wrong here but I think one of the keys to this problem is to identify the legitimate purchaser from the warez-theif. The purchaser should have some sort of unique identifier that is traceable or verifiable somehow, and I think it is reasonable for that uniquely identifiable user to be able to re-install for the purchased use as many times as needed. If we need to pay extra to use the program on a network that should be part of the licensing price(s) not the dingle-dongle issue. My serial number should identify my license-purchase-through upgrade history. Unfortunately after Metacreations there has been no history per customer. CL now has to build some way to seriously identify the future upgrade users..I don't know maybe the solution needs to be in the manner of distribution....maybe it is not anymore a problem of the program but of the continuation of the license...we could be faced with the "club" license approach, that the program itself will self destruct unless re-licensed....it for a period of time....bottom line is that CL has to pay its employees, rent, electricity and worry about whether or not they can continue to pay these expenses and continue to develop the product. We are in a "relationship" that is called a license for use of the program....it is a bit too soon for CL to expect the poser user to trust that any "security" measure will upgrade them out of having the program at all. This is a critical issue in my opinion...maybe the answer is not in limiting the license...it is the here have the program for free because you need our upgraded features which will cost you approach. We seem to want to have new stuffy, models, textures and as a legitimate poser user maybe the way to support CL is through the income generated from smaller cost enhancements rather than a big ticket upgrade-security-nightmare. ?? just a thought.

"The purchaser should have some sort of unique identifier that is traceable or verifiable somehow...." That almost sounds something like installing a little "spy" program that sends its information (however limited to Poser) out to a central server, and I know that won't go over well with people based on what I've read. Many people have already expressed how wary they are of having any sort of identifier on their computer since they are seeing it as a security risk for their own system. Whether that's a legitimate argument or not, based on what I've read, it's not practical if you don't want to anger/worry/upset the end user. I think the point I've been worrying about and trying to find out is that regardless of what they do for protection, it will be broken. The best coders out there are hackers and crackers, and well, that's frightening. CL has all right to enjoy sales from their program and should not have to worry about their programs being mass distributed, but again, reality has to step in at some point. This system will not stop piracy, it might delay it a bit, but the end user who bought it is going to have to deal with potential (I think that's a key word here, potential) problems with this security. Some may get it and never have a problem with it, while those of us who replace hardware (hard drives in this case, especially crashed ones or newer and bigger ones), are going to have to deal with talking with someone to be allowed to install a product we own. That's inconvenient. Someone used an analogy of a bank account and all of the trouble of identifying yourself for it, and while that's a fine argument, it's not realistic. When a person sits down in front of a computer, by my experience, they have different expectations. And those expectations right now don't allow for security measures that make things difficult for them when they're used to things going smoothly and easily. When they have to go through new processes, especially those that aren't computer savy, they get upset right quick. New features are great, but new hoops are not. Again, I may be entirely wrong here, and I hope I am, but I see this stuff all of the time. I work with people, and the majority do NOT like it when things chang, and are apt to express it in no uncertain terms.

Sorry if the identifiability of the purchaser issue was not clear, I am not saying that the program is the means of that identification at all, it is a code issued to the user, specific to the user. The program does nothing, at least in my very limited issue identification summary. I attempted to point out that it is the user that is lost here, and could be identified through purchase records. The program without the enhancements or the program pre-curious labs enhancements is a whole separate issue. The focus is on the enhancements-keep track of legitimate new purchasers idea through customer database/interaction. In my view as a user I would buy into a subscription to updates, upgrades and enhancements as a way of supporting my product as opposed to being securitied into limbo when I botched my system up. The chances of me changing my system are pretty good, and with ongoing customer verification I should not have a problem convincing CL that I am part of their legitimate user base. To me that is what is being argued here, that the customer is taking more of a risk that they are not even going to have the non-upgraded program to use after botching their system or upgrading their system. Assuming CL is operational and there is a customer recognition, I should not have a problem getting my program code on explanation of why I need a new one. The alternative that I am trying to point out is that the codes might be tied into the enhancements only, the patch would not install but the base program would. That kind of thing, or a gold-club approach where the user base that wants to subscribe to enhancements whistles and bells purchases them as plug ins, the base program allows for the plug in feature. The user then has more control over the enhancements/features that they want depending on their level of expertise. I would add that I am in no way capable of understanding the programming wizardry that goes into the upgrade/enhancements. but it seems like PPP is a step toward a whole program approach. the problem of bugs and fixes is to me part of the need to generate ongoing income to survive as a business....so as a user I tend to be more tolerant of such things but I am not pushing poser to the high end-modeling/morphing link with lightwave/3dMax potentials of the program. I see that as an enhancement issue, I use poser as a stand alone...and find Konan's truepose program to be great to allow me to now learn truespace. As is pointed out the other packages just are too expensive for me and unless and until I can make money and justify a large capital expenditure as an investment in the business of 3d modeling with poser I am satisfied to use poser as a standalone. I would like to see more lower level morphing ability so I can avoid the learning curve of the 3d modeling, but learning is just a matter of time. I do agree that changes are hard to deal with especially where it appears the change will jeopardize the freedom to use the program without checking in or having the program out of order until the next business day. I know if my program is not useable I am going to be very cranky ....no really cranky...I use it all the time...so I WILL go through withdrawals......that is a reality for me.

If you're going with something like a "Joe Smith: Activation Code - 1234567890" for a record, that'd be more tolerable and far less intrusive. But you still run into the problem that some people don't like companies knowing anything about them, plus it goes back to the whole asking for permission to reinstall. If the intention is to use this type of system, there's no real way around the whole permission thing. That stinks. Oh well I guess, have to wait and see how it turns out.

clsteve wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are not beholden to us any more than any other consumer in any other arena. <<<<<<<<<<<<<< This is just not true, and it takes about five milliseconds to realise it. To utilise your forthcoming product in a manner which is normal and legal (hardware fiddling and using the product on new machines), I must contact and 'get permission' from Curious Labs. I have never had to do this with any other software. In other arenas, it is notable that Ford and other car companies have repeatedly been taken to court (and lost) in Europe after various attempts to rope their customers into making use of their service facilities alone. It was regarded as restrictive trading practise to make the customer beholden to the company after they'd paid their money and driven off the forecourt. The only choice re being beholden a potential consumer of your forthcoming product has is to either buy it or not. Unless, of course, you are a consumer of the Poser Pro Pack. In that case, if you want your previous purchase to be fit for the use intended (i.e. work properly), you are now obliged to become beholden to Curious Labs and subject to the whim of their protection system - not something that was a requirement upon purchase. I'm no lawyer, but it strikes me you are on very dodgy legal ground with this. I'm not sure about Curious Labs, but I have absolutely no doubt that Microsoft will cynically abuse their supposed anti piracy protection system to attempt to rope customers into permanent use of their product. They will likely end up in court for doing so, and it will be very interesting to see if any verdict has implications for these other protection systems. Keep that 'end of the line' patch handy, it might be needed sooner than you think. ;-)

sigh 'This wonderful new copy protection idea will make our program uncopiable...' If it does, it will be the first one ever to do this. Those who ignore history will be trampled by it... Guys, been there, done that. A number of times over the last 25 in the IT industry. Each time one of these new schemes came out, a few months later methods were being shared that got around them - software, cracks, whatever. Even ignoring the impractibility of the copy protection itself, why on earth should I pay good money on a product that then screws me around when I change my computer configuration? Not to mention the (likely) possibility of happily writing data onto 'unwritable' areas of my hard disk. So that if your so-wonderful copy protection screws up other software on my machine, I cant even get rid of it... Can you spell 'lawsuit', people?? And of course you or your UK subsiduary ARE registered under the UK data protection act, arent you? No? Oh dear, then you're breaking the law. And being unable to get rid of the software is also illegal under new UK consumer regulation...and I understand the Germans arent too happy about your ideas either... But I'm sure that's ok, after all the world ends outside the US, doesn't it... Yes, as you may have noticed, I will NOT be buying anything from you that requires this silly registration nonsense (no, I onwt buy Windows XP for the same reason). Nor will I recommend it - in fact, I will do the opposite. It's a pity, because I consider Poser to be excellent, and good value - but I wont buy something that makes me dependent on this type of registration. Please remember, there was a REASON software companies went away from copy protection in the '80's. It was because people hated it, and wouldn't buy software with it. Or do you think we are all gullible enough to fall for it this time around? I assure you we aren't...

product that then screws me around when I change my computer configuration What happens if I put Poser 5 or whatever on a laptop when its external zip drive is attached to it, and then try to run that Poser without the external zip drive attached? Those are two different configurations and the assignment pattern of its drive letters ends up different according to whether or not the zip drive was attached at boot-up. As I said before, the more complications, the more there is to go wrong. People who would otherwise be law-abiding may well get a warez copy merely to avoid this sort of hassle. Message 104 of "Article in German c't magazine on forthcoming copy protection & CuriousLabs" describes a bout of trouble that Snazzy had with a protection package called Vbox that Symantec put in a program that he bought. Vbox took over his computer and made his Windows unstable so it kept crashing, until he went through his hard disks and his registry with a toothcomb and removed every mention of Vbox.

Before I was a web designer, I made a pretty good living as an embroidery digitizer. In case you weren't aware, we're the CAD geeks who get your company's logo and 'punch' the design into the computer, paying careful attention to how the design is to be stitched out, what kind of fabric it's going on, and what has to be lost from the original logo to make the design work. It's a small and hugely competitive field, divided between mom & pop local embroiderers and companies with multinational operations; I've worked for both. The two major players in this software arena are Wilcom and Gunold-Stickma, which were the first on the scene in the early 80s. Both of them started out with hardware dongles (a "Trysoft" card in Wilcom's case) and registration codes which expired every 18 months. This meant making a call to our distributor in Colorado, Melco, who in turn had to make a call to Wilcom, which is an Australian company and therefore closed and asleep when we're working. More recent versions of the software have no dongle but instead codes which expire every 6 months for 3 times and then you receive the final code. This was largely because their competitor, Gunold-Stickma, was moving in this direction and their users were unhappy with losing a day's worth of work each time the software went south. As I mentioned earlier, the embroidery software market is very small. What I didn't mention was that the software costs about thirty thousand dollars. Limited application, small market, and a price which reflects how small that market is and how much it takes to keep the software divisions in the black. Steve, I'd ask you exactly how close to this profile CL is. As small as CL could be, you probably sell at least ten times as many licenses per year as Wilcom does. Be square with us: does CL have actual statistics which indicate that sales drop when cracked/warez versions of Poser are posted to the Internet? The other irony here is that Poser, like the Wilcom software, is not a video game and has a somewhat steep learning curve (moreso without the manual, you'll agree). I can see the average warez d00d using a cracked copy of Microsoft Word or Quake; Poser is an art tool which demands weeks and months of use to attain proficiency. Does CL really believe that there are enough warez d00dz out there who have the patience to master this application (i.e., constitute an actual lost sale)? Without insulting your UI team, Poser isn't in the same league as Photoshop when it comes to using it without reading the manual. And I think you'll agree that as useful as these forums are, they won't fill the void left when a d00d tries to figure out the program without the manual. Here's an alternate solution you might like to consider. Every so often the software on startup pops the following dialog: "Please enter the **th word of the th paragraph on page *** of the manual. [box] Please enter the code you were emailed on (date). [box] Otherwise, please contact customer support at -- and have your registration code ready." Will hackers get around this? Probably, but no more or less easily than the protection scheme you propose. Will it make a sizeable dent in your sales? Check your sales stats regarding P4 and Pro Pack. Will it alienate the user base? No. If CL (GOD FORBID) goes under and egi.sys decides not to further support the software, egi.sys releases a final code or software patch which permanently unlocks the software. Piracy is a nonissue for dead software.