Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote - One of our main projects right now is to revamp the download and install experience. We realize it's a pain and we are fixing it as a high-priority

Might one ask HOW you are fixing it?

I can't reveal too much about it because it may still change substantially. But in a nutshell we will implement a download manager... Perhaps closer to steam or Mac app store. You won't have to think about what to DL or where to put it (outside of your designated preferences)it will just "work" I don't want to debate this too heavily just yet because it's still very much a work in progress and there isn't much I can tell you concretely. I will share more as I can.

 

and how will this affect those of us that back-up installers and zips for safety?

if you implement that sort of crap like the app store thing, it will mean a total loss of my custom for content.

DAZ3D's insistance of going their own way with installers instead of zips ( which the rest of the content providers are very happy to use) has caused no end of problems for Mac AND PC users.

I am confident that we will settle on somethign elegant and useful for all.

There is no reason to assume we wouldnt include customization options no matter the delivery and install method.

once again, it is useless to debate this at this point. If you would like to offer positive ideas for what a cool DL and install system could be like, then please do.  Realistically,  I have to say that we will not be going to a Renderosity-style zip file paradigm.

Quote - same here,Laurie. not gonna have that sort of intrusion on my systems. besides, my working rig never goes online.

looks like no future purchases from DAZ3D for me, if they implement that sort of installation.

my production pc has never been online, either.  i've never had to reinstall, it's like the day it was born in Taiwan.

"SnowSultan..you and I don't agree about much, but I think on this we are in complete agreement ;)"

Heh, there's a first time for everything.   ;)

" If you would like to offer positive ideas for what a cool DL and install system could be like, then please do. "

The most important 'feature' would be to have the ability to completely disable it. I don't have a problem with there being one, and I might even use it depending on the features. But there are obviously many people who are passionate about not having to use one, and the option not to use it MUST be available.

For features, I guess I'd rather have it run from the website rather than from within Studio or be a standalone program. Also, please do not have any expiration dates on downloads - I bought Fallout 3 from Steam and because I didn't download or play it for a while, it's now showing as "unavailable". Part of what makes the current system great is that we can always go back and redownload stuff that we might have forgotten to install or lost for whatever reason. Please don't take that away.

Thanks,

SnowS

Quote - Thank you for answering my questions, Rand. It is much appreciated and I am pleased that certain issues are being addressed.

Quote - 4. Are any measures going to be implemented to address the unjust ways customers have been treated and may be treated in the future?

 

---If you have a specific grievance, and feel you got a raw deal, I will happily hear you out privately.

My experience is that this is just lip service and the way Daz staff treats people it does not agree with is just to ignore them and not to listen to their side of things unfortunately. Getting any fair answers from the staff at Daz has been impossible. What guarantees do you make that things will now be different?

Also, do you think it fair to ban people on your forum for things said in forums not connected to Daz when they have not had any warnings on the Daz forums, no evidence of anything they have done or said on the Daz forums has ever been produced and the only reason given is that Daz can ban anyone it wants? This does not give a good environment for good customer relationships which seems to be your worry.

I am not guaranteeing that things will be different, I saying im willing to listen to your issue to see if I can offer any insight or assistance.

I also cannot offer blanket acceptance or feeback on specific issues without context and more information.

Im here... im talking with you. isnt that proof of something?

Quote - > Quote - I use Poser from version 2 and Daz Studio from the beginning.And now use last pro version of both. I also bouth may content stuff from the beginning of Daz  after Zygote 

I would use this opportunity to write why i appreciate more and more DazStudio pro for all its functions and bridge to others softs (like Photoshop and Poser) but still prefer to use Poser

I thinks that the content managment of DAZStudio is now better and better but still too complexe and each time i use DAz installers on it i am not sure where it instal the product and there are still some stuff i  never find it in my content libraries beside this using Poser is very simple

  x

Our content management is actually quite powerful and flexible... I really love it and I have mine all tricked out and customized i dont know what i ever did without it. It can even work just like it has always worked because it can still use the runtime poser paradigm. We realize that the main problem is that we have not provided adequate education resources to help everyone adapt and understand. You will see this improved with the new DL and install process that is under development.

It is also one of the main directives of the company to finish out our documentation. You can view our online docs as we fill them in at http://docs.daz3d.com

If you would like personal assistance in settining it up and understanding how it works, I would be happy to personally work with you to figure it out. '''

 

 

 Thanks for this answer

i wiil read the draft documentation

I am a french speaking person but i can read  easily english (more than i write and speak) So ii hope the examples of   my next paragraph will be enough clear

I hope the documentation will have an explicite description about how content manager works :why some thins are with people category and some others which seems the same kind of stuff are a part,why some stuff are in smart content ,some no,why some are in my library (where i try to put everything) and some others outside ,why when i load some figure saved before i didn't see new stuff associated with this figure (example V4 for genesis with maps ,clothes,hairetc) and why i find this  new stuff (ex morphs) if i rebegin from zero (click people, add morphs add cloths) etc

 

 

Constructive Download Manager thoughts:

• Should not be a system level or integrated application.  It should be stand alone, launchable, etc.  Fully controllable.

• Should keep track of what computers are associated with a user and what content is on each.

• It should be flexible.  At least two, if not more, methods of operation.

** Suggested Method 1 - Old School

*** Should allow users to download installers for storage/archiving.

*** Should be aware of the store and purchases made since last invokation.  At launch it would offer to download all purchases since last run.

*** Should also be aware of the last date that installer was downloaded and know that installer has been updated and automatically offer to redownload it when the download manager is invoked.

*** Does nothing else. :) 

** Suggested Method 2 - The Novice

*** Should download content from the store automatically.  Either via installers or individual files

*** Should place that content in the default content directory structure. Either by silently running installers or by placing it there directly.

*** Should know when that content is updated and automatically patch it.

There are probably more ideas, but those are mine.  Fwiw, I love Steam.  I have only purchased a single boxed copy of a game since Steam came along.  It launches only when I want it to, if a game is updated, it patches it transparently, etc.  It's been very good for me.

Quote - > Quote - I agree with all those who wish to keep it civil. And open.

Randal, you have - in Genesis - a relatively low-res mesh. Works a treat in DS4 but not all that optimally in Poser. Are you anticipating a higher-res mesh that will be generated during export from DS4? And would that high-res mesh support either the V4 morph set or the new V5 morph set?

 

The answer is not a higher Rez mesh, it's in SubD that the magic of Genesis happens. Even if we could bake the SubD in and get the figure into Poser with more detail it might actually bend and look worse.

There is a reason why genesis bends better than previous versions... It's because the bends are made then SubD is applied which is the idea behind Catmull-Clark.

It may be that we could create a figure that would be a "Posette 2" that was more detailed and poser weight mapped. But odds are good that it wouldn't do much more than V4... She was and is pretty great. We will pursue genesis functionality in Poser until we succeed or it becomes obvious that it will never succeed. If its the latter, I can assure you that we would dedicate resources toward an alternate solution... Like a new Poser-native product line.

Thank you for taking the time to answer my question, Randall.

Quote - > Quote - We don't use zip files because we have a desire for you to accept the TOS among other things. ... We are just doing it by the rules and if a legal issue ever did come up, we would have done our part correctly.

 

What TOS rule is this you refer to? Do you actually mean Terms of Service? I thought this is not applicable to purchased content.

Perhaps you mean EULA? Still, I am not aware that EULA for content must be enforced by content installers that require a click. Is this a government/legal rule you refer to?

Particularly for content purchased in an online store, at checkout time, is clicking on the "I agree to the EULA" during purchase not sufficient?

Does this mean other vendors who do simply include a copyright notice and a license agreement in the zip file are actually not protected?

You are correct, I meant EULA. Apologies.

What other vendors do is their business and i have no opinion on their delivery methods.

Installers are simply our preferred method and we are within our rights to use the method we prefer. We have heard the request to do simple zip files and as I have already stated... and with all due respect... that is just not a direction we wish to go in. I would be happy to listen to any other ideas.

a new Poser-native figure sounds like a great idea. 

There hasn't been a baby since P4 and it needs a new version by talented artist.

Quote - a new Poser-native figure sounds like a great idea. 

There hasn't been a baby since P4 and it needs a new version by talented artist.

That would be something I'd aim for the folks at SmithMicro.  DAZ has had the Mil Baby 3, which was released 2006ish, long after P4 was released.

Yay! I want a baby that doesn't remind me of Chucky...lol. :P

Laurie

Quote -
Hello,

I think that is exactly the opposite of what people would want.

If you stick to the installers, a simple improvement would be to let them remember to install for Poser as the selected application, similar to the content path (currently they remember the runtime path, but fall back to "DAZ studio" every time. One is tempted to think that this is intentionally). Ideally I would like to see zip files, really! The tons of "program hasn't installed correctly" messages are really really annoying. 

 

Best regards,

   Michael

 

 

One of the problems with the current installers Michael is that they do not work on Macs now. I agree ideally zips. I am a stickler about my folder system. And Daz folders are notably atrocious. Rand you say you want to steer away from zip files, but the old SIT file were a form of zips. And the rest of the installs required PowerPC.

I personally hope we can come to some type of compromise. Unfortunately with the release of Poser Debut. You have to be advanced to get items installed into the correct folders as external folders are disabled. Poser has been nice enough to install folders for the Daz characters and clothing, but your runtimes do not install into those files. There are too many versions of Poser floating around, add all the versions of DS and other .obj programs: It is simple. We need the flexibility to install into the program runtime, external hard drive (some of carry TBs of files) or work folders that we can zip the render content file together and transport it to a render machine.

Daz has simply turned into a hobbyist site and is not professional friendly anymore. Yet you are expecting us to support professionally priced software of Daz Studio...I think you've stretched to thin, then tried to snap back like a bungie cord. Daz needs some direction and to decide what it is willing to provide. More then this it needs to decides what demographics it is going to serve. If you want to serve Daz Studio and Poser, that is fine, if you want to serve only your content that is fine. Just make a distinction and live with it. You can't continue to go back and forth.

Quote - If you would like to offer positive ideas for what a cool DL and install system could be like, then please do.

This sentence embodies the core problem, you're thinking about having something new and "cool", rather than putting a lessor amount of effort into making improvments to the current setup that have been requested for a long time e.g. :-

1. Improve the current installers so that they can be run in batch mode.
2. Improve the download reset architecture so that multiple items can be reset at a time (e.g. by order, by all items updated since last download, everything etc.)
3. Improve (i.e. make reliable) update notification (as emailing is patchy, consider using some on-site mechanism which is an automatic part of the update release process rather than a manual step).

Quote - > Quote - Thank you for answering my questions, Rand. It is much appreciated and I am pleased that certain issues are being addressed.

Quote - 4. Are any measures going to be implemented to address the unjust ways customers have been treated and may be treated in the future?

 

---If you have a specific grievance, and feel you got a raw deal, I will happily hear you out privately.

My experience is that this is just lip service and the way Daz staff treats people it does not agree with is just to ignore them and not to listen to their side of things unfortunately. Getting any fair answers from the staff at Daz has been impossible. What guarantees do you make that things will now be different?

Also, do you think it fair to ban people on your forum for things said in forums not connected to Daz when they have not had any warnings on the Daz forums, no evidence of anything they have done or said on the Daz forums has ever been produced and the only reason given is that Daz can ban anyone it wants? This does not give a good environment for good customer relationships which seems to be your worry.

 

I am not guaranteeing that things will be different, I saying im willing to listen to your issue to see if I can offer any insight or assistance.

I also cannot offer blanket acceptance or feeback on specific issues without context and more information.

Im here... im talking with you. isnt that proof of something?

I am not guaranteeing that things will be different, I saying im willing to listen to your issue to see if I can offer any insight or assistance.

It's sad that you cannot guarantee that your customers will not be ignored or get fair answers. Listening is not much good if what is said to you is not acted upon and customers feel resentful when they feel they have been treated unfairly and then ignored which leads to the bad relationships you are worried about.

It's also sad that you do not see anything wrong in trying to censor what is said in private forums when the people in question have done nothing wrong on your own forum. It is also unsettling to think that the staff at Daz are snooping on other private forums and using what they find against their customers. This further injustice and unethical behaviour does not promote good customer relations.

Im here... im talking with you. isnt that proof of something?

Yep, it is proof of something but I'm not quite sure what at the moment. :(

Thank you for your honest answers. It was very enlightening and I appreciate it greatly.

Quote - But then here comes 9/2012 and now Poser is weight mapping too, but in a different way, perhaps, and there was no cross-talk between the companies because, presumably, too much competitive secrecy. [...]

I'm pretty certain they handle weight mapping almost exactly the same actually, they both seem to have extended Poser's original volume-falloff approach that's been in use since the beginning.  The major problem right now is that Poser does not do Catmull-Clark subdivision.  Either side of the problem could solve it, but preferably SM would add subdivision to Poser.

Quote -   You are correct, I meant EULA. Apologies.

What other vendors do is their business and i have no opinion on their delivery methods.

Installers are simply our preferred method and we are within our rights to use the method we prefer. We have heard the request to do simple zip files and as I have already stated... and with all due respect... that is just not a direction we wish to go in. I would be happy to listen to any other ideas.

You have spoken, Thank you Rand. I will now take my leave of the topic.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Thank you for answering my questions, Rand. It is much appreciated and I am pleased that certain issues are being addressed.

Quote - 4. Are any measures going to be implemented to address the unjust ways customers have been treated and may be treated in the future?

 

---If you have a specific grievance, and feel you got a raw deal, I will happily hear you out privately.

My experience is that this is just lip service and the way Daz staff treats people it does not agree with is just to ignore them and not to listen to their side of things unfortunately. Getting any fair answers from the staff at Daz has been impossible. What guarantees do you make that things will now be different?

Also, do you think it fair to ban people on your forum for things said in forums not connected to Daz when they have not had any warnings on the Daz forums, no evidence of anything they have done or said on the Daz forums has ever been produced and the only reason given is that Daz can ban anyone it wants? This does not give a good environment for good customer relationships which seems to be your worry.

 

I am not guaranteeing that things will be different, I saying im willing to listen to your issue to see if I can offer any insight or assistance.

I also cannot offer blanket acceptance or feeback on specific issues without context and more information.

Im here... im talking with you. isnt that proof of something?

 

I am not guaranteeing that things will be different, I saying im willing to listen to your issue to see if I can offer any insight or assistance.

It's sad that you cannot guarantee that your customers will not be ignored or get fair answers. Listening is not much good if what is said to you is not acted upon and customers feel resentful when they feel they have been treated unfairly and then ignored which leads to the bad relationships you are worried about.

It's also sad that you do not see anything wrong in trying to censor what is said in private forums when the people in question have done nothing wrong on your own forum. This further injustice does not promote good customer relations.

Im here... im talking with you. isnt that proof of something?

Yep, it is proof of something but I'm not quite sure what at the moment. :(

Thank you for your honest answers. It was very enlightening and I appreciate it greatly.

I feel the need to step in here.  He is not forum staff, nor is he in charge of forum staff at DAZ.  So, all he CAN do is listen to what you have to say, and pass it on to the proper channels.  It's just like when people post complaints here in this forum about the MarketPlace.  We don't have any say over what the MP does. The best we can do is point them in the direction of the thread. But, it doesn't have the same impact as it does if you contact the MP directly. 

I KNOW that you're frustrated with what happened.  I get it. But, Rand has stated that he'll do what he can.  Unfortunately, that may simply meaning lending an ear (or eye in this case) and saying "I'm sorry that this happened to you."  I'm not saying that you have to be happy with that, but insisting that Rand is the bad guy because of it isn't fair to Rand, and it's definitely not fair to you.

Quote -  

I feel the need to step in here.  He is not forum staff, nor is he in charge of forum staff at DAZ.  So, all he CAN do is listen to what you have to say, and pass it on to the proper channels.  It's just like when people post complaints here in this forum about the MarketPlace.  We don't have any say over what the MP does. The best we can do is point them in the direction of the thread. But, it doesn't have the same impact as it does if you contact the MP directly. 

I KNOW that you're frustrated with what happened.  I get it. But, Rand has stated that he'll do what he can.  Unfortunately, that may simply meaning lending an ear (or eye in this case) and saying "I'm sorry that this happened to you."  I'm not saying that you have to be happy with that, but insisting that Rand is the bad guy because of it isn't fair to Rand, and it's definitely not fair to you.

Oh, in no way am I insisting that Rand is a bad guy. He said he wanted to chat about things not to do with the store and this is what concerns me and I am chatting about. I apologise if I give any other impression but hopefully the feedback he gets from a once very loyal Daz customer who now does not shop there may help him understand things from a customer's point of view when he reports back.

By the way, it would be nice if he did say he was sorry it happened but somehow I doubt that will ever happen. :(

See, THAT makes it more clear, to me, at least :)

Quote - See, THAT makes it more clear, to me, at least :)

Great. I think it was very brave of him to come here and meet us and I have thanked him several times already. :biggrin:

It is so easy to misunderstand intentions in a forum (and real life actually) which is why communication is important and something that does not always happen in some places. :(

Quote - We will never be distributing zip files as is done here on Rendo.  It just isnt the direction we are comfortable with.  We will, however, make something as easy to use as possible, our goal is to make download and intallation non-issues that are no longer an obstacle.

Actually, some of your older installers - ones that remembered the install path and remembered the program to install for worked fairly well IMHO. There has been a problem with QC with your installers, but that has been down to human beings - it's no easier or harder to fix those particular problems with any other system as it's the human beings that are at the core of the problem.

Steam, too, has fouled up things from time to time.

Quote - [once again, it is useless to debate this at this point. If you would like to offer positive ideas for what a cool DL and install system could be like, then please do.  Realistically,  I have to say that we will not be going to a Renderosity-style zip file paradigm.

Surely after you have produced your intrusive DRM downloader will be far too late to debate whether it's a good idea or not?

IMHO DAZ development effort would be better spent fixing Genesis, fixing DAZ Studio, Hexagon, Bryce, Carrara and the web site and producing new 3D content. Not duplicating Operating System functionality becuase you think you can do it "cooler". That's how we end up with problems that Adobe installers and the like are prone to.

Quote - [By the way, it would be nice if he did say he was sorry it happened but somehow I doubt that will ever happen. :(

it might do, if he has actual specific data and has time to research it and get "all sides" to whatever happened. It's quite difficult to apologise for something if you don't know what the something is. IMO :)

This isn't really a content issue, but a content browsing issue.

When I look at the Daz site and I want to check my wishlist or other account settings it asks me to "confirm" for "security" reasons by basically re-logging in on an already logged in account. Why? I'm already logged in, why do I need to input my login name and password again when it's already welcoming my back to the site?

It's annoyed me to the point that I've basically stopped going to the daz site all together.

DAZ_Rand,  I've got the feeling that the poser-daz debate is something like the NBA lockout that was just lifted...  but I'm not sure if I can see the same ending (resolution) happening or not.  Read the link to get a sense of what I'm talking about and I don't care which side you see daz as or poser as (that's not really important).

IMO you guys should wave the white flag, smooth V5 so she has enough polys, then rig her for poser.  However I don't see that happening either.  I'm not even sure if you guys will even make it so I can't **BLOODY USE GENESIS ON MY SYSTEM BECAUSE YOUR LAZY PROGRAMMERS DIDN'T TAKE MULTIPLE USERS INTO ACCOUNT WHEN SETTING UP THE STUPID SYSTEM!
**

Quote - This isn't really a content issue, but a content browsing issue.

When I look at the Daz site and I want to check my wishlist or other account settings it asks me to "confirm" for "security" reasons by basically re-logging in on an already logged in account. Why? I'm already logged in, why do I need to input my login name and password again when it's already welcoming my back to the site?

It's annoyed me to the point that I've basically stopped going to the daz site all together.

This is because your wish list and account settings are held on the secure side of the site. So your first login is to the forums and store etc. You can browse the store and place items in your cart there, but for anything that accesses the secure site you need to login again. Daz3D is not the only site that does this, most shopping sites need verification before you can actually purchase anything.

Quote - I can't reveal too much about it because it may still change substantially. But in a nutshell we will implement a download manager... Perhaps closer to steam or Mac app store. You won't have to think about what to DL or where to put it (outside of your designated preferences)it will just "work" I don't want to debate this too heavily just yet because it's still very much a work in progress and there isn't much I can tell you concretely. I will share more as I can.--------------------
We will never be distributing zip files as is done here on Rendo.  It just isnt the direction we are comfortable with.  We will, however, make something as easy to use as possible, our goal is to make download and intallation non-issues that are no longer an obstacle.

Is there no way to have people downloading zips to agree to the TOS prior to downloading? Sort of a restricted access to the download unless you agree to it? Just a "Check this box" click ok and you download the zip file?

Think of it as entering an age restricted site (HEY now there are art sites you know! lol) you have to click to enter.

Is there no way to do this?

Daz-rand, it would be helpful if your staff would reply to tickets regarding copyright-related issues. In fact, there are figure processing techniques and algorithms out there that outperform everything contained in daz or sm default software packages, and the u may not use our figure for anything policy doesnt help 3d in general. What would help me would be a guideline on how to provide tools around your content, in order that you maintain your benefit but I can push 3d forward also. Like, using v4, m4, genesis or whatever is currently en-vogue as encryption key for content stacked upon them, and then its good. An infracture for enhancng the tech, yes, that would be good. The license terms appeared to me as a greater burden than all other issues regarding computatonal complexity. You make ur money with the shop. Why dont sou open the base products more in a way you benefit from enhancements.  E.g. Why not allow cloth refitting techniques. Even if your base figures have to be analyzed by automatons upfront? Te cloth would sell better if they were truely figure independent. And a last point, you should not focus your products entirely on content consumption. Customization is the key. My opinion, create a framework for safely enhancing your techology by the community. Thats worth more than any current figure tech.

Enough of reading this thread.

Antonia WM has been released and I am off to down load her

Bill

Quote - As someone who has no axe to grind with either Daz or Poser it is nice to see a thread where the aim appears to be an informed debate.

I owe a lot to Daz as it was that free program that got me hooked on 3D so many years ago and thus has given me a lot of pleasure over a number of years.  I used to buy a great deal from the Daz store and I do wish everyone there, every success.

There is of course an 'however' coming up, so however, I now find that I buy very little at Daz3D for example, so far this month I have spent $164 at Rendo and $4.29 at Daz3D.  That has been the pattern for the last year or so, and I am no longer a PC member at Daz but I am a Prime member at Rendo.  

So my question is 'Are there any plans to change the PC range at Daz3D'.  I do understand that the products offered at $1.99 and other offers are good value but I do think the PC content has become stale, it maybe great for new users but there appears to be little of interest for the longer term hobbist.

Finally I love V4 and continue to use her on an almost daily basis.  I was initially interested in Genesis but I have to say I have become sick to death of the whole sorry buisness that now do not look at any thread or product that includes Genesis or V5.  I do not blame Poser or Daz for that, but I am saddened by the way the certain members of the community have responded.  From a very personal point of view I am less interested in V5 working in Poser and more interested in an improved V4 but until I see something that improves on what I can do with my present V4 I will stick with what I know, and love. 

I am in the same boat. I love my V4, I have V5 and genesis, but i love working in carrara and until we have FULL support in carrara, i can't use her. I'm also just staying away from the argumentative threads. I do read them because i want to know both sides. I want to hear what customers are saying and how DAZ is responding. Just staing in the know

Quote - Hi Randall,

Thanks for taking the time to make yourself available for questions here.

You mention that there's been some misinformation here, and that's undoubtedly so - few people are privy to what is really going on and those that do know are under non-disclosure agreements.

Rather than just waiting for people to post whatever is on their minds perhaps it would be better if you identified the misinformation to which you were referring and clarify it from DAZ's perspective?

That way we get a sensible place from which start asking pertinent questions.

This is definitely a good idea. What topics are we being misinformed about?

Quote - > Quote - I want to ask two questions, because they are the main reason I prefer Poser over D|S:

-Will it be possible in the future to create your own dynamic clothes?

-Will it be possible to have dynamic hair in D|S?

best regards,

Bopperthijs

 

On which I like to add: for a reasonable price?

 

In all honesty, these things are on our list of desired items for DS, but we are in a "feature lockdown" phase where we are trying to refine what we have instead of piling on more complexity.

Once we feel like we are on more sturdy ground on that issue we will begin again with new features.

Dynamic hair is more likely to get done first, as there has been talk of a Carrara Dynamic hair player plugin for Studio. (talk does not equal product :) ) Programmers do believe that we could pull it off but its all just a concept at this point.

Opti-tex has some dynamic hair he did for V4 on his personal store page :) I don't have it but it looks cool.

Quote - Enough of reading this thread.

 

Antonia WM has been released and I am off to down load her

 

Bill

Exactly.  Since Poser now has their own weight mapped figure, this debate can simply come to an end.  And, given the speed with which this has been accomplished, I'd say Poser users will have a stable of weight mapped figures in the near future.

Quote - > Quote - Enough of reading this thread.

 

Antonia WM has been released and I am off to down load her

 

Bill

Exactly.  Since Poser now has their own weight mapped figure, this debate can simply come to an end.  And, given the speed with which this has been accomplished, I'd say Poser users will have a stable of weight mapped figures in the near future.

and how is this possible? we have a great pdf manual and can learn how to do things :D

sorry I just coldn't resist lmao

still no sign of the carrara 8 manual promised so long ago

and I've given up on it now

Quote - > Quote - Enough of reading this thread.

 

Antonia WM has been released and I am off to down load her

 

Bill

Exactly.  Since Poser now has their own weight mapped figure, this debate can simply come to an end.  And, given the speed with which this has been accomplished, I'd say Poser users will have a stable of weight mapped figures in the near future.

You can count on it. And they will FULLY take advantage of all Poser has to offer.

Quote - Enough of reading this thread.

Antonia WM has been released and I am off to down load her

Bill

Thanks, mate - you can find a thread about this event here:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?message_id=3869600

Give us a choice to download either the exe version or zip version of your products.

As long as I can resume downloads, I'm good with whatever. I've already got file download managers, video download managers, one more ain't gonna chap my hide or get my knickers in a twist as long as it works.

Enough of reading this thread.

Lindsay Lohan's Playboy layout's been leaked - Ciao.

Quote - > Quote - Exactly.  Since Poser now has their own weight mapped figure, this debate can simply come to an end.  And, given the speed with which this has been accomplished, I'd say Poser users will have a stable of weight mapped figures in the near future.

 

You can count on it. And they will FULLY take advantage of all Poser has to offer.

This is what excites me now!!

Quote -
All I'm going to say about that is ilock.  Worst idea ever and I refuse to use any VST that only supports it

I'll see your ilock and raise you C-DILLA (anyone who has bought or used 3ds Max or 3D Studio Viz knows exactly what I'm on about here >:( ). 

I'll go back to just keeping half an eyeball on the thread when compiles, meetings, and file transfers permit... it's been rather entertaining, and has provided far more of an education to the general public than anything I could ever hope to come up with. ;)

Quote - We don't use zip files because we have a desire for you to accept the TOS among other things. I know that people think its a joke and that pirates laugh at it... But copyrights, trademarks, patents and other protections are no different. We are just doing it by the rules and if a legal issue ever did come up, we would have done our part correctly.

TOS can be accepted as part of our account or profile.  I shouldn't have to agree over and over and over again.  If the TOS changes, we can be notified of the change and be told that we must go into our account and agree again before any downloads are allowed.  That would be acceptable to me and I think to many others, if not all at least probably most.  I'd rather see that than continue with installers or some download manager scheme!  I'd say that probably many agree with me.

Download managers can tend to slow download speeds.  I get a premium speed with Comcast.  I'd like to see my downloads maintain the best speed possible.  As it is, I only get speeds of about 525 to 575 Kilobytes per second at DAZ3D.  Some other sites are significantly faster, and a few as much as 2 or 3 Megabytes per second.  I feel really bad for those who are still on dial-up.  I've seen people saying that they have frequent breaks in downloads, and have to start over again.  This happens more when the download speed from the server is slower.  I don't know how a download manager will affect this for them, it may actually benefit them if it allows restarts from where it left off. (I used to love that about zmodem - yes, I know that showed my age)

Also, the idea that I won't actually have a file that I can use to re-install in case something happens (loss of hard drive, etc.) is disturbing.  I'm not crazy about the idea of having to download what I've paid for again because I am no longer allowed a file backed up locally.  Again, if I were on dial-up the thought of that would be absolutely horrifying!

Dana

I like open and honest comunication. Congrats/ and I mean that.
That does not mean we have to agree;

The installers are a PITA.

Give me a zip any day.
I, and only Me, Myself and I, decide what content goes where.

I hate it, that each and every content creator HAS to have his name burned in my HD.
And worce, he wants HIS name in my Geometires, in my Character and Props, and in my Texture and in my Pose and Materials, folder. Pollution everywhere. 
Preferably with some Grrrrrr.. . . (stay polite Tony)....... to get the on the first line.

THAT, dear Rand, is why we hate installers. Pollution.

Genesis

Well, I do not need her.
For me she is too High Poly, and for others she is too Low Poly.

This something in between dates from Poser4-5 figures.

And Posers Smoothing is as good as SubD. Proven with examples in their own forums.
OK, OK! I admit it is not the same thing. Completely agreed.

And for those that want to use her : the DS4 exporter should have been a one click solution.

Conclusion:

1. Sell and let us download a zip file.
2. And make the Genesis exporter a user friendly one click.

Thanks for your time, thanks for reading.
Best regards, Tony

Quote -
I cannot state how much I hate this compared to .zip files, as one of the mods would have to come in and bash me around the head

Same here.  Gawd, if DAZ goes to a Steam-like system, that might be the final nail in the coffin for me.

Please, please, give us zip files.  Or at least the option of zip files.  Cornucopia3D lets you choose between zip or installer.  If they can do that, surely DAZ can.

I want to control where I put things.  I don't want DAZ deciding where to put them.

Quote - I am confident that we will settle on somethign elegant and useful for all.

There is no reason to assume we wouldnt include customization options no matter the delivery and install method.

once again, it is useless to debate this at this point. If you would like to offer positive ideas for what a cool DL and install system could be like, then please do.  Realistically,  I have to say that we will not be going to a Renderosity-style zip file paradigm.

Sorry, but "elegant and useful for all" is simple archive files in a standard format that pretty much every OS can read.  There is no way to have something "elegant and useful for all," but violate standards, obscure direct access to files, take up unnecessary computer resources, and generally complicate a really simple process that pretty much every computer user has gone through.  It may benefit your company to go a more complicated route, but in most situations, no benefit to users.  That's why archives files are by far the most common way to distribute content in general (even outside of this community), and installation applications are not.

Even in pjz99's scenario of choosing V5 packages to include and options, I can't see why we'd want an installer to do this.  Customizing a purchase is usually something that most people want to do at the store and not at their home.

But I appreciate your honesty in letting us know your company's plans and intentions, and being open to requests and suggestions.  For those who are happy using a whole installation service application, it gives them the opportunity to talk about features.  It also warns those of us who do not want that kind of software on our systems.  Or even can't run that software on our system.  It's really too bad for me, because I deeply admire many of your artists.

Are you going to sell a Poser-ready version of V5/Genesis?  You've demonstrated your exporter, so it's obvious that you not only can create your own Poser-compliant Genesis, you have. Since it's possible for you to produce pre-packaged Genesis products, I was wondering if you are considering releasing any.

Just to clarify, V4 wasn't and isn't the best functioning figure for Poser.  We can talk about qualitative issues with Antonia, like do you personally find her attractive.  We can talk about support issues, like does she have enough morphs, clothes, or textures.  But she's technically superior in several ways.  Her rigging enables her to take more realistic poses without mesh distortion, her mapping has less distortion, her topology distorts less with bending and is more regular, her anatomical proportions and overall shape is more realistic,... I could go on and on.  Frankly, I've yet to see renders of Genesis in her native DS environment bend as well at the ankles, knees, and hips.  V4 is very good, Genesis is even better, but Antonia as she was first released had the best joints of all.  And she's still being improved upon with the new features P9 supports.

It makes perfect sense for DAZ to pursue their own ideas about how to advance their own technology.  I whole-heartedly support them advancing their own platform rather than restricting themselves to only what another company's platform allows.  But that doesn't make their path the only logical or technically accurate path.  As good as DAZ and their products are, there's more than enough room for other innovators and other innovations.

Quote - > Quote -  

I feel the need to step in here.  He is not forum staff, nor is he in charge of forum staff at DAZ.  So, all he CAN do is listen to what you have to say, and pass it on to the proper channels.  It's just like when people post complaints here in this forum about the MarketPlace.  We don't have any say over what the MP does. The best we can do is point them in the direction of the thread. But, it doesn't have the same impact as it does if you contact the MP directly. 

I KNOW that you're frustrated with what happened.  I get it. But, Rand has stated that he'll do what he can.  Unfortunately, that may simply meaning lending an ear (or eye in this case) and saying "I'm sorry that this happened to you."  I'm not saying that you have to be happy with that, but insisting that Rand is the bad guy because of it isn't fair to Rand, and it's definitely not fair to you.

Oh, in no way am I insisting that Rand is a bad guy. He said he wanted to chat about things not to do with the store and this is what concerns me and I am chatting about. I apologise if I give any other impression but hopefully the feedback he gets from a once very loyal Daz customer who now does not shop there may help him understand things from a customer's point of view when he reports back.

By the way, it would be nice if he did say he was sorry it happened but somehow I doubt that will ever happen. :(

I am sorry to hear about anyone having anything less than an enjoyable experience with any facet of DAZ 3D... so let me make that clear.

I cannot guarantee results over things that I have no direct power over. I have shared feedback from this forum with the people that do, however, and there are appropriate eyes on this.

I hope you understand that I cannot simply accept everything said and let it guide my actions without a proper telling with all the facts. Every issue that is brought to me with those details will be looked into. "Looked into" does not mean "solved to your satisfaction", but if its your contention that you were unjustly treated, it should work out that new eyes on the issue will uncover it.

I am willing to look at it with those eyes and I have the blessing of my executive superior to do everything in my power to address the issues brought up in this thread.

Quote - Hello everyone.

I would like to open an official, honest and productive dialog with you,  the "Poser community"

It strikes me that there is a lot of misinformation being circulated here by people who mean well, but who may not necessarily have complete or accurate information. This misinformation can stir up emotions and sow the seeds of bitterness. So... as much as I am able, and in an official capacity... I would like to answer your questions and open a new lane of communication......

Much of the disinformation can be traced right back to the source.

I don't mean to offend, but that is how I see it after reading many of the official responces on various threads. Nobody has complete or accurate info, because none has been given.

Many of the posts refer the the incompatability of Genesis in Poser is because of the subdivision. That is part of the problem, but a very small part of the problem.

The best answer would be that Genesis doesn't work in Poser simply because it doesn't work in anything else either.

Don't get me wrong, Genesis is a neat idea. But it is unsupported by others.

So, lets be truthful.

Genesis doesn't work in anyone elses software either, and Sud D is not the only reason.

If you want to stop the disinformation, provide better information.

I just want to say that I cant stay in here all day. If I go for long stretches of the day without responding its because I have other things going on. I will, however, make it a point to check in at least once each day.

Quote -
If you want to stop the disinformation, provide better information.

That is why im here.

Quote - Don't get me wrong, Genesis is a neat idea. But it is unsupported by others. So, lets be truthful.

Genesis doesn't work in anyone elses software either, and Sud D is not the only reason.

 

It would have been unrealistic to approach the world and try to get support for a non-product.  Now that Genesis is out and many people like it and we have gotten attention, it is much easier to go to other platforms and start compatability dialogs.

We have made Genesis native to Carrara, we have a GoZ bridge and Photoshop Bridge. We have alpha Maya compatibility working (Ive seen the demo) and we are in talks with other outlets to get our new file formats supported. Beyond that we are looking into native content solutions for other file formats but this is still not anything I would feel like I can tell you about.

Honestly all the talk about underlying technology does very little for me. I'm a heavy Poser and Vue user, spending over $100 a month on content, but I use V4, always have and always will, unless a new, better figure comes that can be used in Poser 7 (and no, I cannot upgrade, because I use both Poser 7 and Vue 6, which supports up to Poser 7 only. So my only choices would be paying around $1400 to get the latest version of both, or making my workflow drastically more complex by adding DS, using obj conversions, etc, which I have no intention of doing).

So basically, for people like me, all this means is that each time I browse the DAZ site, I see less and less usable items, which simply means I go there less and less. I can understand some people wanting to try new figures and making clothes for it, but by not making them compatible with V4 it just means it's not usable by me and others. I'd happiless shell out $18 for the new Val3D outfit that came out today, but I can't. And when I see even hairstyles (V5 ponytail) coming out and not supporting V4, that's just crazy, and an underhanded way to force people to change.

So this is basically why I dislike DAZ at the moment, and why I just cannot use their site anymore.

Quote - Even in pjz99's scenario of choosing V5 packages to include and options, I can't see why we'd want an installer to do this.  Customizing a purchase is usually something that most people want to do at the store and not at their home.

You might not want it, but there's pretty much no way to have a single predefined Poser-format CR2 that supports all permutations of extensions (mostly, morph targets).  You can consider it an "updater" as in V4/M4's case, but it's really part of the installation process, i.e. the extension simply won't work until the updater has been run.  What happens when a new morph package is released by DAZ, assuming DAZ ever provides INJ/REM morphs for Genesis, which is currently doubtful?  You either force the user to re-download and reinstall Genesis, or you provide some kind of in-place updater as was done with V4/M4.