Quote - another question is why are the hair going the exact opposite of the path? for the rest of the hair so far I have used either apply path ti y-lock or to each hair are they have worked beautifully. Now the only one that follows the path is directly to path.

That shouldn't be happening.  Which settings did you use to shape the lock, when the problem occurred?

That's looking very good.  Much better than my meager efforts, while I was testing the script.  :laugh:

no rush on the debug. I understand it can take a awhile to set up a new computer. It's not a big deal. Just wanted tolet you know about it.

Quote - Just wanted tolet you know about it.

I'm glad you have told me.  :thumbupboth:

Do you know wh Length, Hair, and Direction Handling you were using?  If I know that, I know which function has the error.  It looks like a sign is getting flipped somewhere.  :unsure:

I hope I get as much enjoyment from the script as I did from your orgininal post introducing the script. Thanks for both!

Quote - I hope I get as much enjoyment from the script as I did from your orgininal post introducing the script. Thanks for both!

I hope you can get some use from the script.  :laugh:

If you're just responding to the initial post on page 1 of the thread, the script has been updated and expanded several times since then, and has been joined by a series of derivative scripts.  I'd actually fogotten that I gave the script a permamnent home in that first post, and the version at that location hasn't been updated in ages.  All of the Loop Scripts are now available at the link in my sigline, which is:

http://www.the.cage.page.phantom3d.net/looper/loopy.html

I should also explain that the Y rotation of the first marker, in the hair script, can be important.  The "Apply path to Y locks", "Apply path to each hair", and "Apply path to groups" functions all work internally by rotating the path to point on Z to determine how to orient the hairs.  Both to correct for my own mathematical limitations as a programmer (:lol:) and to open up more user options, the script requires that the major axis of the hair path be defined by the Y rotation of the first marker.

Which is to say, the blue arrow on the marker should be pointed basically along the length axis of the path.  (Hopefully the attached image might clarify that idea.... :unsure:)  Then the script knows how to rotate the path for internal processing, but doesn't have to guess about it, potentially introducing errors.

If the marker isn't rotated for these three functions, the path followed by the hairs will be skewed (unless the hair path points more or less along the +Z axis).  In some cases, the user might find that this opens up more creative options.  :unsure:  That was my hope, at least, when setting it up.

At any rate, doing it this way allows the path to be positioned and oriented any whichity-way, for those three functions.  Only for the "Directly to path" option do the markers need to be placed closely around the skull prop.  This openness of positioning is actually important for the per-hair and Y locks features.

I hope that made at least some sense.  :unsure:  Sorry to be long-winded about it.  :lol:  As noted above, I don't seem to explain things very well.

Cage - this looks like a very smart tool for the hair room, and much needed. I just found out about it so haven't had a chance to actually use it yet, but it's first thing I'm going to try out when I get my work done today.

You developers are a smart bunch!

TIA.

Quote - Cage - this looks like a very smart tool for the hair room, and much needed. I just found out about it so haven't had a chance to actually use it yet, but it's first thing I'm going to try out when I get my work done today.
You developers are a smart bunch!

Thanks, Carodan.  :laugh:  I can't claim to be smart, I'm afraid.  :lol:  I've been winging it with a lot of this material, and the various scripts have their shortcomings which reveal my limits as a programmer and, more particularly, the limits of my math training and education.  :unsure:

The hair script is largely undocumented, any available instructions being in this thread, and I haven't actually figured out how to use it effectively myself.  So possibly some raw potential has been presented, but it may or may not be useful, in the end.  :sad:

Sorry, Cage but I beg to differ. I think the hair script is useful now.

Quote - Sorry, Cage but I beg to differ. I think the hair script is useful now.

Well, I'm glad!  :woot:  I need to take lessons from you on how to use it.  :lol:  I can't explain to anyone how to use it, since I still haven't figured out a good set of processes myself.

BTW, that Python error you were reporting was fixed in the version currently posted on the Loop Scripts page.

For lessons see the fourth post from the bottom . That's the extent of my knowlege on how to use the script.  lol.  I don't understand the features much and have resorted to applying each indiviual strand direct to the path then moving the path for the next strand. Right now I'm trying to figure out why it numbers the strands the way it does.  I don't see any kind of pattern to it. I don't know if it's the way I create the group or a limitation in the script.

Quote - Right now I'm trying to figure out why it numbers the strands the way it does.Right now I'm trying to figure out why it numbers the strands the way it does.

As far as I can tell, the hairs are created in the order of the vertices to which they're attached on the scalp prop.  I think it depends on the vertex order of the scalp, that is.  Depending on the tools and processes used to create the scalp prop, its vertex order may be awfully jumbled.

I didn't try to take any steps to put the hairs into sensible order, for the script's use.  They're just listed according to the polygon order of the hair prop (where each hair is a polygon which correcsponds to one of the vertices on the scalp).  I guess I could try that, but you can see the ineffectiveness of my efforts in that kind of area, if you look at how the "Y Locks" end up being assigned.  :lol:  AFAIK, a process similar to the Y Locks would be needed, to sort the hairs for selection.  Which is to say, you could still get a jumbled result.  :sad:

I'll see if I can find any information on sensibly sorting the vertices of a geometry by topological relationship.  SOmething in layman's terms, that is, which I can actually grasp.  :lol:

I was raid it wasn't user error. Those are so much easier to fix. I'll keep playing with it and let you know what I've observed, if there is anything. I think in the past the order I selected the verties did effect both the oder they were numbered by the script and the y-lock groupings. I wouldn't be surprised if you firgured out one, you'd get the other.

Layman's terms? Those are way too complicated. Good luck.

Quote - I was raid it wasn't user error. Those are so much easier to fix. I'll keep playing with it and let you know what I've observed, if there is anything. I think in the past the order I selected the verties did effect both the oder they were numbered by the script and the y-lock groupings. I wouldn't be surprised if you firgured out one, you'd get the other.
Layman's terms? Those are way too complicated. Good luck.

The order in which you selected vertices, when?  When building the skullcap?  Or when assigning groups to it?  A way to test whether group assignment has any effect might be to create a group affecting the same polygons on two or more skullcaps, selecting polys in different orders each time.  Then see how the script orders the hairs.

Well, I mean... I'm not adept at reading summation notation.  All of the technical papers by programmers or mathematicians tend to use that format, as should be the case.  But I need an Idiot's Guide version, to make sense of it, and it's hard to find that sort of thing in this area.  :lol:  Luck may be needed, it's true.  This is an area where I push against the boundaries of my education and intelligence, which is why I keep suggesting in other threads that a Real Programmer should try to make a Poser Plugin which helps with hair design.  :laugh:  So far, no one seems interested.  :sad:

What the script really needs to give the user, I think, is the ability to just click in the preview window and select the hair or hairs to style.  PoserPython doesn't have any methods for mouse interaction with the 3D space, however.  Even if it had, being able to select the correct guide hair might not work out as desired.

The only workaround I can think of would be to create a box prop at the tip of each guide hair, then allow the user to select a box and work with that hair.  Actors can only be selected one-at-a-time, however, so each hair would need to be picked individually.  Depending on the resolution of the scalp prop in use, there couold be a lot of guide hairs to handle, and Poser can be slow when adding or deleting a large number of props.  So I'm not sure how well this idea would work out.

If anyone has any ideas for how hair selection in the 3D space might be able to work, I'm open to trying to implement them in the script. 

I had thought that selecting hairs by clicking might be an easier way, for the user at least. Can you get the script to work with the selection tool in the hair room?

Quote - I had thought that selecting hairs by clicking might be an easier way, for the user at least. Can you get the script to work with the selection tool in the hair room?

Unfortunately, Python doesn't provide access to the hair styling tool functions.

The lack of Python support for mouse interactions with the 3D space is really one of the biggest holes in Poser Python.  Maybe some day we'll get something like that.  :sad:

If we can come up with a more accessible selection method for the hairs, I think it would help make the script more useful.  I'm thinking, but I don't have any new ideas, so far.

I didn't think we'd be that lucky. In one of your posts you mention a box at the end. What about a box like you use in the skinner script. Can you do something so all hairs that are in the box are selected? Or better would be only if ends are in the box but that's probably asking for too much. If you haven't guessed I know squat about python so I have no idea of it's limitations. Please forgive my wild ideas.

That's a pretty good idea, really. :thumbupboth:  I'm not sure whether it could end up being a bit unwieldy, particularly when trying to select groups of hairs using the box, but it should still be more accessible than what is currently in place.

I'll see what I can do with that idea.

If the "Direct to path" function is really the only useful one, I could try to build a simplified version of the script, using only that feature and leaving out the Y Locks but adding selection boxes.  Try to trim it down to what we know works fairly well. 

I don't know that direct to path is the only useful one. Now that you explained about the direction of the fist marker, I've been able to use it some.

I've implemented the basics of using a selection box, and while there are some issues yet to work out, it seems to work well enough.  I think the markers should also be given some parenting (as RedPhantom has been doing), although I'll have to think about how to do that.  One of my thoughts about streamlining the script was that all the markers could be parented to the first one, if features requiring that the first marker be rotated have been removed.  The alternative is probably creating a master prop and parenting all of the markers to that.

bookmark

Would it be possible to have each marker show what number it is? If it's not too much trouble. Don't want to make this difficult. Or should I say more difficult :m_grin:? The hair just styles better if you don't get the markers mixed up :blushing: .

Quote - Would it be possible to have each marker show what number it is? If it's not too much trouble. Don't want to make this difficult. Or should I say more difficul t? The hair just styles better if you don't get the markers mixed up .

Provide some indication of marker order in the actual geometry, you mean?  That's already reflected in naming, but I guess if you handle the markers in the preview window more than with the dials, things can become confusing.  I've done that a few times myself, actually.  :lol:

I think this could be done.  The question is how.  Do you have any thoughts?  Color coding?  Add a number geometry to the marker, or replace the current marker with it?  I can't think of anything else, offhand....  :unsure:

Maybe colors would probably be easiest for you to program. Number shaped geometry would be easiest for the users. The problem I see with both is if there is a large amount of markers. I think I had like 15 or twenty when I was doing a test on spiral curls. People might want to use this script for making more than just long straight hair and some of that could need alot of markers.

Just a thought. If you do the box selection, will there be a way to deselect single hairs that get selected accidentally?

Quote - Just a thought. If you do the box selection, will there be a way to deselect single hairs that get selected accidentally?

Hmm.  Good question.  I can leave the listbox active, but that still uses hair index numbers.  I could allow multiple selection boxes, perhaps.  Then in a tricky area you could use smaller selection boxes, even down to one hair per box, but still select mutliple hairs.  Or there could be de-selection boxes as well, which de-select hairs in a selection listbox.

But things could get confusing quickly, too.  To be useful, selection boxes need to be wireframe.  Which can make them hard to tell apart, if there's more than one.

Cage, I would like to use the chain posing script with a custom made chain link (see image-- the links lay flatter-- it's a necklace/jewelry type).  I can make a parent-child set with them, but would find posing them tedious one-by-one.

A) Would geometry-switching be the route to take?  (I've been doing some investigating and this looks promising...)

B) Would it be possible to do with the chain link objects that your scripts generate?

C) If possible,  how would this work (in small words and step-by-step instructions for the newbie to follow easily)?

 D) Could I adjust the ?x translation? factor to get the links double-linked as in the lower example?  (Better for the jewelry look I want...)

Thanks for any help. 

Hmm.  Okay, what am I doing wrong?

Tried  using Chain Maker, to attempt doing a geometry swap: got this errror message:

-------------------------------- 

Traceback (most recent call last):
File "E:Program FilesSmith MicroPoser 9RuntimePythonposerScriptsCagesScriptschain_maker3f.py", line 1, in
import poser, Numeric, math, os, gzip, time
ImportError: No module named Numeric

Module?  Did I miss a required download?  I am using Poser 9, btw.

It looks like you're using an older version of the script.  The versions currently posted at the link in my sigline are updated to work with the version of Python used by Poser 9 and Poser Pro 2012.

With respect to the chain posing script, it was intended to be able to be used with any chain, and I did test it with various chains not generated by the chain maker script.  However, not all chains will necessarily work, and the script itself can still encounter errors when posing the base link. 

As noted on the download page, "To qualify, all actors must have joints which are oriented in the same direction.   Includes animation and basic dynamics.

This script is still WIP and can encounter errors when rotating the base link of the selected figure."

Ah.  Yes, I had downloaded an older file, from earlier in this thread.

I will give another go, later tonight or tomorrow, as time allows.

Sorry to revert back to the hair to path script... but mine won't seem to work in Poser 9?

It gives me this error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:Program Files (x86)Smith MicroPoser 9RuntimePythonposerScriptsUtilityhair_to_path6.py", line 1, in
    import poser, math, Numeric, os, time
ImportError: No module named Numeric

The actual interface box that is supposed to pop up with the options and such never show up for me, it's just the error...

Is it because I hasn't updated to hair_to_path6c.py or for another reason?

Thanks in advanced...

It's probably because you haven't up dated. I think I recall Cage having to update the script after the python change, but I'm not sure.

Version 6c is an older version.  Go here for the current versions:

http://www.the.cage.page.phantom3d.net/looper/loopy.html

version 6c is what is listed at that link. I know you made v6d but you sent me that in a pm. It's not the same as what is on your site.

I see version 7c at that link. Have I lost my mind?

Version 7c explictly deals with the absence of Numeric and upgrading to numpy

try:

     import Numeric

except:

     import numpy as Numeric

     Numeric.Int = Numeric.int

     Numeric.Float = Numeric.float

     Numeric.matrixmultiply = Numeric.dot

BB the 7c is for the loop making script icandy was asking about the hair to path script.

Oh. OK I'm drinking again.

But - the hair script has the same code in it. Again - am I losing my mind?

This time I'm not dealing with the fuckign newlines.

try:     import Numeric except:     import numpy as Numeric     Numeric.Int = Numeric.int     Numeric.Float = Numeric.float     Numeric.matrixmultiply = Numeric.dot

Don't anybody pay any attention to me.

L O LLLLLOUD.

Well.... I'm confused now, BB.  :lol:  But that's situation normal for me.

All of the latest versions of the loop scripts are on the page at the link I provided.  I don't recall the version numbers without checking them, but they're current.  They've all been community tested and verified to work properly with PP2012 and P9.

Ok BB's right they do have the same lines in the beginning so yes that was very helpful, thanks BB...

Okay I updated to the newest one on that page, hasn't tried it yet since I just got home, but seeing as the line's BB refered to are completely different than the version I had before I'm sure it will work now, thanks...

Is there like a how-to in this thread or elswhere for using this with hair?  I looked through 20 pages, but there are just snippets that I could see, of do this and that...

Quote - Is there like a how-to in this thread or elswhere for using this with hair?  I looked through 20 pages, but there are just snippets that I could see, of do this and that...

I personally never experimented enough with the (experimental - I was pushing the boundaries of my programming skill and 3D knowledge and could only offer options, without really knowing how or whether they'd be useful) hair script tools to develop a useful workflow.  RedPhantom seemed to have a working process, although I think he ran up against script limitations that I couldn't address.  So there's really no existing knowledge base for how to make that script work, and there may be some question as to whether the script can be considered a success.

But I should ask, what do you want to do?  Possibly we can put our heads together and work out a method.

LOL!  Well, hopefully RedPhantom is watching  ;-)

I've done the hair room very rarely, but I wanted a "wet" hair look, and figured I would try my hand at the hair room, after doing some investigation into what the best methods to do so were.

A lot of threads pointed here as a good script for it.

I'll toy around with it a little, and see if I can figure anything out. 

I know you're never supposed to run a simulation on dynamic hair in order to do styling, but for a wet look, that might work well.  I have a script around here somewhere which can burn the simulation deformations into the hair shaping, which might help....