I'm very angry at the moment. I just received this email from Homestead where I have my sites. "It was brought to our attention that your Homestead Web site continues to engage in unauthorized activities as specified under our Member Agreement. Specifically: unauthorized use of copyrighted material currently for sale at www.renderosity.com marketplace. Your Homestead account has been terminated. I've spent a lot of money and time building my site to enable ordinary members to have free items but it seems the powers that be on this site do not like you giving away your work as it does not generate them a profit. so that's the end of my involvement in the Poser community.

Sounds like someone owes you an explanation

Unfortunately, mikes, no one is prepared to give me an explanation.

Homestead is where you have your web site? Sharen

It would seem that the comment "continues to..." implies they notified you previously.

Yes I had had one notification, LadySilverMage, I wrote back stating that there was no unauthorized copyrighted material on my site and that there never had been and there never would be. I never heard anything again till all my sites were deleted today. Yes, Sharon, Homestead is where I used to have my web sites.

Now what are you going to do? And can they just pull the plug without any proof? Sharen

There must be a way to resolve this, to loose you from the Poser community would be a real shame. Sharen

I wish there was a way to resolve this Sharon but when people whom I contact refuse to reply there is little I can do. The site I had had been going 3 years a huge amount of time went into it. I don't feel like starting all over again. Feeling very annoyed still. Off to the pub now

My apologies for the length of this but there is no way to be succinct when deling with copyright law :-) In the case of copyright infringement claims under the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act) you should have been provided with a copy of the Statement of copyright which should specify the alegedly infringing material and it's location. What you may not know (& something that Homestead conveniently leaves out of it's copyright policy statement :-) is that you have a right to counter claim if you feel you have been accused falsely. This will place the burden of proof on the person/persons making the charges against you. The procedure is as follows... You must fill out the following document & forward it to the designated copyright agent for homestead.com (see below) (A) A physical or electronic signature of the subscriber. [As an electronic signature, our agent accepts facsimile/fax and digitized image of signature attached to electronic mail.] (B) Identification of the material that has been removed or to which access has been disabled and the location at which the material appeared before it was removed or access to it was disabled. [This information will normally be included in the notice you receive from the DMCA Agent. You may want to expand on it or distinguish some materials from others. Please include a URL such as http://... or ftp://... identifying the material or representative material.] (C) A statement under penalty of perjury that the subscriber has a good faith belief that the material was removed or disabled as a result of mistake or misidentification of the material to be removed or disabled. [If you have any permissions for subject materials, please identify them. If you believe materials to be quotable under Fair Use doctrine, please state your case with reference to the four principles of Fair Use.] (D) The subscriber's name, address, and telephone number, and a statement that the subscriber consents to the jurisdiction of Federal District Court for the judicial district in which the address is located, or if the subscriber's address is outside of the United States, for any judicial district in which the service provider may be found, and that the subscriber will accept service of process from the person who provided notification under subsection (c)(1)(C) or an agent thereof then you can email/fax/snail the completed document to... Designated Agent: Victoria Libin c/o Homestead Technologies Address of Agent: 3375 Edison Way Menlo Park, CA 94025 Telephone: (650) 549-3112 Fax: (650) 364-7329 E-mail for notice: copyright@homestead-inc.com Once the complaining party receives your counterclaim, the DMCA permits your service provider to restore materials or access in 10-14 business days--unless the complaining party serves notice that it intends to seek a court order to restrain infringement. If you have any questions feel free to contact me privately coolerBear@att.net ICQ# 1523909

i have provided the statement of 'alleged' copyright to the homestead abuse team almost 2 weeks ago. Bebop (or virchual as he is referred to now since his previous banning) has been hosting my copyrighted marketplace item on his homepage. he was warned in the forums to remove it. he was warned twice by Homestead to remove it. he chose to laugh it off and continue his illegal activities, and his site was terminated. now pardon me if i dont shed a fucking tear. -Gabriel

oh, and btw bebop -- since you have been banned from here several times, and you have just admitted that 'Bebop's World' at eaglesgift.homestead.com was YOUR page, im suprised that your new nick hasnt been banned again. i guess this shows the inability of the administration to enforce their own TOS. i have advised the Homestead abuse team to retain a copy of your 'ProLumaire' light set that you were hosting on your Homestead site and linking to in these forums, so that if the need arises they can compare the material therein to my ProLuma light set in the marketplace to prove your guilt. hosting copyrighted material is not only a violation of most web hosts TOS, but also of international law. Cheers, -Gabriel

Hmmm, well if what Blackhearted says is true I cant say Im sorry for Bebop/virchual. Seems very childish to me.

As a writer, I take copyright infringement very seriously. If someone is offering copyrighted material on their website without the creator's permission, as seems to be the case here, they are very lucky if all that happens is their website is removed, as the holder of the copyright is certainly entitled to damages for their loss of sales. I'm with Blackhearted on this one.

I find it strange that the "eaglesgift" website that was shut down was owned by "bebop" I notified you that there was copyrighted material on the site, but you claimed it wasn't your site. Just that you were helping bebop, and refused to remove the item with copyright concerns. So, it leaves me wondering (again) if virchual really bebop?

he has just admitted it, its there in black & white, in his own words. all you need to do is scroll up, Jeny. if thats not enough proof to ban him again, i dont know what is. its apalling that a ban from renderosity only means that the member needs to make up a new nickname and hes back the next day. he can even repost his former images and relink to his former homepage and this arouses no suspicion.

Im afraid I have to also agree with Blackhearted on this one. If vitual /bebop was warned not only on this site, but by homestead as well, then I feel they made the right choice by removing the sites. If the questionable material had been removed until a suitable solution were found between Blackhearted and bebop then perhaps ths all could have been avoided. I hate to see anyone lose thier hard work,but copyright is copyright and if he had been warned several tiems..then he must have known about the files.

Monday, February 25, 2002 4:57 PM Hello, Thank you for bringing this situation to our attention. As a passive conduit, Homestead cannot monitor user websites, but we respond to breaches of our user agreement when we learn of such behavior. Therefore, prior to your complaint, we were unaware that this site was on our server. Given that the user appears to be breaching our user agreement, we have notified the creator of the Web site that he has until February 28, 2002 to remove the infringing materials from the offending pages in order to remain in accordance with the community standards at Homestead. If this requirement is not met within the allotted time, the Homestead account will be terminated. We very much appreciate your interest and commitment to our community. Regards, Homestead Abuse Team Homestead Technologies ----------------------------------------------------------- Monday, March 04, 2002 2:15 PM Hello again Gabriel, At your earliest convenience, please let us know if the infringements mentioned in your claim have been removed from the EaglesGift site. We thank you for your patience and look forward to your reply. Regards, Homestead Abuse Team Homestead Technologies ----------------------------------------------------------- Tuesday, March 05, 2002 2:09 PM Hello, Thank you for bringing this situation to our attention. As a passive conduit, Homestead cannot monitor user websites, but we respond to breaches of our user agreement when we learn of such behavior. Therefore, prior to your complaint, we were unaware that this site was on our server. Given that the user appears to be breaching our user agreement, we have deleted the user's account and removed the offensive site. We very much appreciate your interest and commitment to our community. Regards, Homestead Abuse Team Homestead Technologies

If I may... Something here doesn't make a whole lot of sense, on all counts. Why would virchual host something on a heavily-trafficked site that would be an obvious copyright infringement? Just asking, because it really doesn't make sense.

ask him yourself. ive given up trying to comprehend what drives bebop to do the things he does, they are not the actions of a sane person. youll have to speak to him through email or telepathy though, since hes finally been banned again.

Well if this is all true and I tend not to doubt Blackhearted at all because you are such a protector of all of us, then Bebop/virchual you asked for it. Sharen PS: thank you Blackhearted for your protection and wisdom to show us the road

I just want to say again thank you to Blackhearted, he does really watch out for us and we do appreciate all that he does. See he doesn't really have a black heart....:-) Sharen

Y'all might want to have a look at This

"If I may...

Something here doesn't make a whole lot of sense, on all counts. Why would virchual host something on a heavily-trafficked site that would be an obvious copyright infringement?

Just asking, because it really doesn't make sense. "

What makes even LESS sense is that he THEN had the nerve to come over here and complain about it!!

Joan

Blackhearted, I downloaded those light sets, :( I did not know that they were yours,or that he had stolen them, so I will remove them from my system, and I am sorry this happened to you. Sallie

Evidence????

If I read the letter Blackharted posted correctly, Homestead leaves it up to Blackhearted to check Bebops site. Nothing in their letter shows that THEY did, they just sent a mail to Bebop to remove the stuff. Without taking sides, logic tells me that if I dont like someone on Homestead, I file some serious complaint, say that nothing changed leading to the removal of that person from their site. Something smells bad and it aint my feet.... Maxx BTW: If Blackhearted is right, his complaint is legit, but Im neither a lawyer nor a judge.

Maxx, Blackhearted IS right, and I believe it was considerably more than just his say-so that went into it.

Probably, MikeJ, but the issue has been taken into the Forum, Bebop dropped it and Blackhearted stepped in it. Since he posted the email exchange, which suggests little effort from the side of Homestead, I think its his responsibility to either come up with some proof of his complaint or close the subject and leave it up to lawyers. Until then, reading this thread, it IS only his say-so against that of virchual/bebop. Again, this is not me taking side, but simply reading and using my common sense. I dang well know how horrific theft can be. Ive written millions worth of software for a client which had been stolen. My boss went alomost bankrupt paying for damages. Actually, I am more interested in a discussion about how to PREVENT situations like this, as in some previous thread it came clear that KAZAA/MORPHEUS/GROKSTER users share almost EVERYTHING for free which is on sale with DAZ and Renderosity. Maxx :-|

maxx, this issue involves a hell of a lot more than what you see here. bebops attacks on me have been going on for months, and i have been in contact with his website host for almost 2 weeks now. the only reason i 'stepped into' this thread is because i noticed virchual slipped up and provided the proof that he is actually bebop. bebop has not been banned over the copyright/warez issue. he was banned months ago over continuing attacks on renderosity members, mainly myself. he has returned with several aliases and continued his attacks, and was subsequently banned as well. this was just his newest attack in this neverending drama that he insists on engineering. as for posting evidence - i have no 'responsibility' to post anything of the sort here. this is an issue between bebop and myself, and the only part that pertains to you is the part where bebop has been banned again for returning to renderosity under an alias. as for closing the subject - it WAS closed until you posted your last two messages. i assure you that the homestead abuse team has received all the evidence that it needs to ensure that bebop's site will never again soil their servers. cheers, -gabriel

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=134920&Start=1&Artist=virchual&ByArtist=Yes

Sorry-- I don't really want to get into this, but-- an artist having toPROVE their authorship? Now that is just sad. All artists leave something to trust when they post anything, anything at all: their work, their words, what have you. I've been plagiarised, and I'll tell you, it does not feel nice. Blackhearted, I'm sorry.

Blackhearted Why was your lighting set removed from the Market Place a few weeks ago? and then a week later it misteriously returned

i see youve logged in under your other nickname. sleep well, peter.

I don't want to take sides, since I have respect for both Blackhearted and Bebop. However, I noticed your light set was temporarily removed as well, and I'd be interested in hearing your answer to Zoeloves' question if you wouldn't mind. Thanks, take care. SnowS Hoping his pictures are worth 1001 words.

i posted this in this thread earlier after nikita brought it up, but since she deleted her message i deleted mine as well so i did not seem like an idiot speaking to myself. so here i shall repost it. here is my original message, unaltered: thats interesting, thats the first ive heard of this. in my original light set release months ago, a couple of the studio spotlights (included as a bonus to my global illumination package) were allegedly similar to lights made by StefyZZ in one of her packages. the renderosity copyright comparison was pretty inconclusive, but to avoid argument the offending spotlights were modified by me immediately and the item was re-uploaded to the marketplace. im sure you will have difficulty naming a single vendor in the marketplace that at one time didnt have some sortof alleged copyright or other issue brought against them, especially with their first store item. between that issue, which was resolved months ago, and the issue of bebop reeatedly harassing me and hosting a warez copy of my light set on his homepage and linking it in the poser forum several times, there is a night and day difference. if you think that bebop has ever nurtured a 'noble' idea or cause, youre sadly mistaken. hes been harassing me and several other members from the start, and this final act was just a culmination of that. good riddance to bad rubbish. hopefully this time, the 4th time that he has been banned, it will sink in.

Thank you for explaining. I actually knew of the StefyZZ infringement, but I wanted to hear your side of the story. Renderosity's copyright agents couldn't spot an infringement if it sprouted wings and flew, but I'm pleased to hear that you took it upon yourself to redo those spotlights in question. Hope this whole thing can be settled peacefully, since you and Bebop are both talented artists with a lot to offer. Take care and thanks again. SnowS

I can attest to this whole Bebop/virchual thing - I'm the one who actually called virchual on it in the first place. I notified Blackhearted of course, at the same time I told the admins. I got a sincere thanks from Blackhearted and what I would describe as mild harassment from virchual - he accused me of being a liar, he wouldn't stop IMing me after I had asked twice. Just when I thought he was finally going to stop pestering me, he sent me another message about how 'did you know Blackhearted's lightset was removed from the store a couple weeks ago for copyright violations'? I never asked after it, but I saw Blackhearted's original posting (the one he copied above) and it made a lot of sense. I do have one of SteffyZ's textures and there is a similarity between the studio light sets, but they're definitely different. (And yes, I do have Blackhearted's original set of studio lights)... I don't know what happened to cause such a strong dislike between Bebop and Blackhearted, and frankly I don't care. All I know is what I saw while caught temporarily in the middle of all this.

Attached Link: http://www.dynagrind.com

heh, ive never had a 'beta-testing' crew, mainly because ive tried it in the past and the people ive entrusted to beta-test an item didnt do what was expected of them, so i got upset and just do my own testing now. i set up a second computer with standard poser so that i can test p4 standard & propack compatibility. i have been know to give my items away to friends or people who i know are in bad financial situations, so if theres one thing i cant be called its a 'profiteer'. i spend a lot of time creating and testing my work, and i dont ask astronomical prices... but if you dont want to compensate me for my time then go download the warez versions of my stuff. just dont come in here and rub my nose in it, host it on your homepage and post links to it in the forums like this fucking jackass did. so honestly i dont understand where your post fits in here, rudi. if youre referring to bebop being so generous as to give his stuff away - keep in mind that every single one of those 'free items' hes been giving away in the forums of late was in his marketplace until the moment he was banned. he only started giving them away after he was banned from renderosity, mainly to gain favor since he made such a monumental ass of himself in the C&D forums. cheers, -gabriel

It is both sad and ironic how two events so different can seem so similar when one doesn't know the details. You see, it is the details which set these matters separate. I've known Gabriel for quite some time. In fact, when StefyZZ's claim was brought against him, I was the first person to whom the information was brought outside of renderosity. In fact, there was at the time a spreadsheet comparison made of both lights sets by renderosity admin, which I still keep on my database. ( I keep everything ) Suffice it to say, the spreadsheet, while showing minor similarities between the two lights sets, was no more conclusive than comparing any two light sets. Coincidentally, all of the similarities were between at most 12 of the over 400 lights. What does this mean? It means that StefyZZ had every right to ask for a review, but that the review left absolutely no evidence of the claim. Thus, the lights set was returned, with Gabriel agreeing to change anything that Stefy might have a question about. The agreement was made by way of saying, "Let's make this matter water under the bridge, so we can all go on with our lives." And so it was... To date their have never been any grumbles by the actual parties involved, until Bebop arrived back on the scene... A lot of people would like to say that this matter is about Bebop being here under another nick, and getting banned again... But it's not. It's about a childish obsessive pirate being held responsible for his actions... Bebop/virchual's light set was not only an alleged violation, it was a proven incidence of theft and distribution, which, luckily for Peter Ansley, Gabriel has not decided to pursue to a criminal court. This is a man who feels that people who disagree with his unethical practices are directly imposing upon him, and so seeks to do them harm. Perhaps someday he will realize his mistakes and amend them, but, unfortunately, I do not hold enough faith in him to expect that. This matter has gone on for over a year, and is beginning to create a sickening feeling that remains even after Bebop's departure. As a community of good, ethical individuals, I hope we can all simply let his name pass from our lips, and let his memory disappear with it. Let anonymity and disgrace be his pennance.

Attached Link: http://www.dynagrind.com

Attached Link: http://www.freecfm.com/p/pimpinwillye/default.htm

Giving in is never a good answer, especially when you know you are right.

You know... I'm right there with the next guy loving something for free.. god knows I spent enough in simply the last month between here and Daz to pay about half of my bills (sans rent) over again but its there. I also received high quality products for my buck, worth far more but I couldn't have bought it priced any higher. The "free software" idea always cracks me up, not to sound rude, but it's on my list of ideas that work there with communism, good idea if it'd work. I've done very little that I'm so proud of I'd sell (I tried once and I stumbled over so many copyright errors its sick... ignorant mistakes, but mistakes nonetheless) but I see the time there, I see the effort there... And I know what this sort of hobby costs - a lot. I hope to (once I have a better grasp of certain pieces of software) to be able to really contribute here as well, and if I do well, I'll sell some. Am I going to make a living? Hell no. But hopefully it'll defray some of the "costs of doing business." Yes.. poser is expensive but nothing compared to lightwave or 3D Studio Max. Thats just my take... nasty business, this. Anzan

I also have removed the lights I got from Bebop's site. I don't believe they were legimately original, and I'm sorry this happened BH. Thanks for the comparison pic kieraw, it was most helpful.

What I don't get is - what did virchual have to gain by putting the presets up for free on Eaglesgift? Did he make money out of it (can't see how) or make friends, or was it to tweak Blackhearted's nose? If the allegations are true (I don't know enough to make a definite decision on this) what was the point? :] FishNose

Still telling the same old lies, Blackhearted and for your infomation no I am not Bebop or virchual. My name is Zoe and I am the women that lives with Pete. Lie 1 "he was banned months ago over continuing attacks on renderosity members" no only you Blackhearted. If you remember he was defending himself against your trolling of his gallery images. Lie2. "has been hosting my copyrighted marketplace item on his homepage" The light set is not the same and you will notice no one has produced a comparison as in dial settings, names etc. Lie3."bebops attacks on me have been going on for months," Have they? where? some evidence of this allegation please. Lie4. "the issue of bebop reeatedly harassing me and hosting a warez copy of my light set on his homepage and linking it in the poser forum several times" All completely untrue. You do live in a strange fantasy world. Lie5. hopefully this time, the 4th time that he has been banned no only the twice. Both times because of your lies. Several people in the posts above seem to accept Bebops guilt well lets see one single peice of evidence. What were Jeni K's findings? They have never been published. Entropic says "it was a proven incidence of theft and distribution" OK lets see the evidence you have for that allegation. and gabriel the only thing that amazes me about you is your ability to deceive. Oh and what about your texture copyright problems? Remember now who's textures did you copy again?

gabriel, First of all, I DO appologize if I gave you the impression of wanting to patronize you or not to believe you. I DO believe you and I certainly don't want to patronize you. I also emphatize with you for I know very well how it feels when someone takes your creations and ideas claiming them as their own, the anger, frustration, let alone the of loss of income. It might have been my Dutch choice of words getting misinterpreted or the time of nite I wrote it (3:30am, my timezone is GMT+1, 7 hours ahead of Renderosity time). I have no intention whatsoever to get into conflict with you or anybody else here at Renderosity. So, again, I appologize if I gave you the wrong impression. Having said that, I think it doesn't really matter whether I believe you or bebop/virchual. I haven't had any dealings with either of you. I only know you from your work or postings in threads. And that's the whole point, I simply dunno who to believe (and I guess more people outhere have the same problem), hense my request for proof. Why? Well, last November I barged into this Forum flocking a member for claiming a new texture as his own which was unmistakingly a copy of SteffyZ's Asia. Just looking at the texture was enough to get convinced. Still, proof was demanded (who was I to go public with an issue like that?). So I took the time and effort to create a side by side comparison which proved what I had found. Nevertheless, I felt inclined to appologize to the guy for barging in like that as he seemed sincere in making an honest mistake. ( original post: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=473380 ) ( my proof : http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=473995 ) And that's what I meant with responsibility, this is a public area and it's easy enough to flame people publicly making it hard to defend themselves. My lesson for that day was to take my responsibilities and act accordingly. And no, you dont have to agree with anything I write, thank God for individuality, as it is only my view at things. I hope you will find a way to get compensated for your stolen work.... Maxx :-) BTW: I am not a vendor, but I know Renderosity gets 50% of the sales, what is their role in proving ownership of creations? BTW2: This is just me expression my own frustration: the software stolen from me was an extensive library of development tools I had created. A collegue took off with it, claiming it to be his own. I had neither the means nor the measures to proof otherwise and a few dozen of the packages got sold at 10K a piece, that's right, $10,000. My head hurts again thinking of it.

This thread is bound to get deadlocked: Blackhearted sounds reasonable, virchual and zoeloves, though somewhat direct, sound reasonable too. Taking "someone is innocent until proven guilty" into account, either claim stated by both Blackhearted and virchual seem to need proof. Why not get an official statement of Renderosity on the issues at hand? (as it is about products marketed and sold at THEIR site). Maxx