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3D Modeling F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Nov 03 9:18 pm)
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Subject: The app thread ! DEBATE
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This is a outstanding idea! This will be a side by side of the modeling apps. Very cool!
You can't call it work if you love
it... Zen
Tambour
HI! Ive tried: 3DS max, Lightwave, Cinema 4d, Maya PLE, Wings3D, and many others. Actually I use Lightwave, I think it has the best modeler I have seen, works with Sub-d, poly modeling or Splines. Maybe the only matter is the lack of NURBS or curves tools, but you can use the LW famous Metanurbs, wich is a sub-d system perfect for organic modeling. Another good point is the combination of Weight maps with Metanurbs, wich will give you a perfect control over sharp edges using the sub-d system. Well, my 2 cents ;-)
Attached Link: http://www.rhino3d.com
Rhino is an excellent modeling app for just about anything. Often used in films as a way of scanning character maquettes or for creating things like the Goblin Glider, Rhino has taken an undeserved back seat to some of the bigger name apps. When it comes to nurbs, no program on the market has Rhino's ease of use and support. Purchasing Rhino will give you access to the development staff and even the owner of the company Robert McNeel, who is always willing to talk or lead you to someone for help. Top that off with an upgrade plan unheard of. If you've purchased Rhino this year (before DeC15th) you can upgrade to version 3 when it comes out in January for Free! Modeling in Rhino is just as friendly. You can literally jump in and have a model that's respectable on your first try. With the addition of handlebar tools and point wieghts, Rhino also makes an excellent organic modeling tool. It supports a wide variety of formats for both importing and exporting and if you export as a mesh, it has a great nurbs to mesh converion tool and a polygon reducer built in. With it's new plug-in architecture (introduced in 2.0), Rhino the sky's the limit for what the future holds!
Mind Over Matter
"If you don't mind, then it don't matter."
Well, great topic and a clean and nice way to start off such a topic. I like what I have seen from many programs, such as Lightwave and Maya and others But I have grown up with 3Dstudio from its beginning, and I'm also a usual AutoCAD user, but I found a gret tool for me to design and creat concepts and product design is RHINO. I create all of my modeling with Rhino's Nurbs, I just love the control the software has and leaves room for some artistic control over surfaces. Like I said I use AutoCAD for some years for my living so Rhino just seemed to perfect, when I first opened the program I knew it was for me. The tools for rotating and moving and the good old handy Command line, gotta love typing in my commands just like AutoCAD. But Rhino looses out when it comes to Rendering, so I hop into 3Dstudio MAX 5 and import my model From Rhino using a nurbs IGES files. And so this is why I use what I use. And it works for me really well.
y@
I've tested out 3DS Max 4, Rhino 1.1, 2.0 extensively, and more recently have taken a dive into Maya 4.5 Rhino - Well, Teyon pretty much covered most of it. The thing I love about Rhino is that it is so direct; what you see is what you get, no tricks or oddities that the user has to work around or figure out. The learning curve is like taking a stroll in the park compared to some of the others. In the field of organics however I'm a firm believer in a poly modeler. Rhino does wonderful at things like organic car bodies and the like, however if you want richly detailed complex characters (Teyon excluded ;P) (ex: human facial features) then I believe another poly modeler is the way to go. Rhino doesn't have any real poly modeling tools, however it wasn't built as a poly modeler. For NURBS it's hard to beat. I highly reccomend rhino to anyone. 3DS Max - I'll have to be up front an honest, I really didn't get the chance to use max long enough to get a firm standing in my opinion of it. The general interfase I didn't care for much, in that everything was so burried, it takes more mouse clicks to get at stuff vs. other apps on the market today. I just kind of felt that it was "clunky" in a sense. Max is capable of great things (look at blizzard) and I don't doubt its power, but it just didn't seem intuitive enough for me. Maya - I'm very new to Maya, so again I can't vouch for all things Maya. The interfase is very fluid considering the number of tools that it must cover. Very similar to 3DS Max, but more fluid IMO. The tools are pretty well organised for the most part. The controls for moving around a viewport are second to none, you pick them up pretty fast. Maya's poly tools are very powerful, as well as its patch/Nurbs, and sub d's. I find it a faster program to pick up and use for a newer user vs Max. Maya's modeling tools, though not respected as the very best in the industry, are powerful indeed, enough to let you focus more on your creation, rather than having to d**k around in the program and solve problems that the program should worry about, and not the end user. I've talked to many users, and none of them have come across a project that couldn't be done in Maya. MEL is very powerful, if you find that a tool doesn't exist that you need...make it exist! Pick your tools well, you'll end up at the same place in the end...its just a matter of how well you travel ;) -Modulok-
Great thread!
I thought it would be too flamable but it's doing fine so far!
I think the choice of a modeler is related to what renderer and animation software you're using. I worked in 3dsmax for a long time and i modeled everything in AutoCAD. Now i work in Cinema 4D and all my modeling is done in C4D, except for the architectural models, those are still AutoCAD.
I love Rhino but exporting a mesh from Rhino to C4D is a nightmare! i hope Rhino 3 or C4D v9 will fix that.
I also love Mirai and Nendo for sub-d modeling since i can export clean meshes to C4D.
I'm trying to learn Lightwave, but i wish the interface was a bit more intuitive. Damn it... i've seen great models made in LW and some really great images... but everytime i try to learn it i fall into dispair!! I'll get over it...
One thing to keep in mind though... no software will make you a better artist. Hard work and lots of time will. Oh, and a lot of imagination is half way through.
I remember reading an article about rustboy (www.rustboy.com) and on how it was made in strata 3D!!!
It's not about the tools. It's about the man behind the tools!
:)
well, i work with rhino too, cant add much that hasnt been said so all i can say is, its a very powerfull program with high very high precision, im a sucker for precision/perfection, eventhough in the 3d scene imperfection is perfection. but like myself, i like to create cars, and cars require precision which rhino has alot,....
Carrara Carrara has a whole host of tools for modeling which range from vertex modeling, spline, and the whacky metaboll modeling. Text modeling is also included but I don't know that I would consider that a special stand alone modeler. I think Carrara's strength lies in its capability to do models and do excellent renders for the price. There are a few aspects of the Carrara vertex modeler that are pined for by the users, bevels being one of them. Another one is the import of an image with the capability to "trace" out a 3d model using the image as a template. The interface Carrara has with Adobe Illustrator has provided some help for users but it could be expanded significantly. The introduction of bones in the latest version of the code has been very useful, practical, and easy. Armatures can be applied to models which makes animation pretty straight forward. The modeling of mechanics can be done easily and straight forward in either the spline or vertex modeler. Organics can be a challenge for some. Nurbs have not been added to Carrara with the emphasis by Eovia (the vendor) to push Amapi as a more enabled and premium tool for modeling. Currently, I would say the metaball modeler (which is a sort of "clay glob", "stick em together" type of modeler) has been underused and does have a limited level of application. It's difficult to assess this aspect of the application. Again, Carrara shines when it's coupled with the powerful texture engine and rendering engines available. Complicated meshes can be built in Carrara with excellent results. Organics are still a little more clumsy than other apps but the code is having significant evolutions on an annual basis and modeling tools are part of those changes. Modeling in C has some limits, but it certainly doesn't fall short of being an excellent choice for tons of stuff (especially if you're a beginner and you have no dough!). I hope some of the heavy hitter Amapi users come over here and paste in a few paragraphs. I'll try to chase somebody in here for that. Amapi has a lot of serious tools and lots of horsepower that should get some air time here. -Kix
-Kix
One other note on Carrara, I forgot to mention a few things. Carrara has a subdivision modeler. Here's a quote from their web page. "Subdivision Modeling allows the design of complex and highly detailed Characters. Thanks to the use of simplified polygonal objects automatically subdivided to add details, this approach greatly simplifies the modeling of easily animated realistic characters." There is also a terrain modeler and a formula modeler. -Kix
-Kix
well i guess i will add a few of my own thoughts to this fourm though i am probably not qualifyed to really put to much into this debate. as a little background i started with lowpoly modeling for game design in the 3d game studio , useing it as my level builder itself. which in a way basically is landscapes and interiours of buildings etc. and for modeling organics in extream low polys it was Quark , or a few other extreamly small players that are out there. But as i continued to tinker with game design i really began to grow disatifyed with the way things looked due to the extream low poly useage and limatations i had to textureing my models , so i decided to shift form game design to art still sceans , and i hope to work on some animations eventually. the first steping stone i used into my transition was Blender. which was a good modeler for my beginings , but the interface i found was more then a bit of a pain , so after a few months tinkering with it to no avail i decided to test out some demos i first tryed 3dsmax which i found a very solid program , decent interface , but i dident like the feel of things , and i couldent put down on the screen things that i saw in my head or in my sketches i use as refrance next i tryed lightwave and truly that lasted about two days with me , i couldent get around the way the interface is. to many diffent applications in my mind , to much got lost in my confusion in that one but then i tryed Cinema 4d which i found was extreamly solid in many ways , the user interface was one i could work easly with and i felt compleatly at ease with , i dont know why but in many ways i can see simularaties with its user screen and game studio. so i stuck with it and i find its extreamly easy to work with , though if anyone here peers into the Cinama 4d message boards you would find me still asking tons of questions to the more experinced people there. because i admit it i am still very much a beginer and there is alot i have to learn about this application. and the various commertal and free plugins that are floating around the net. On the Con side of my choice i found that there is less tutorals around the net for this application , primarly because it seems the user base is quite a bit smaller then the other big boys (3dsmax , Lightwave , i have never looked into Maya so i dont know) so it can be a bit frustrating at times .. but i think i would make the choice again just for comfert with the application and that is what i feel is one of the most important things when looking for any application , you can choose whats the most powerful stat wise . you can choose what offers you more features , or you can find the one you can use with more ease. and i think the user ease with a program is the most important aspect of a modeler , the rest of the stuff is bounis. but many people would likely disagree with me . but thats the way i feel about the subject
Attached Link: http://visionized.com
My 2 cents: 8) Which in today's economy is worth about .5 cents........but I digress. I started with Poser/Bryce, moved to Amorphium, then to Anim8or, then to ZBrush, then Amapi and Wings and now I am using Strata3Dpro 3.7 I demoed: 3DMax, Maya, SoftImageXSI, Cinema4D, and LighWave I think people approach this all wrong as new converts. FIRST pick a soft that will teach you the basic principles necessary to succeed in the higher application levels. Throw Maya in front of someone who can't define "extrude" and watch jaws hit the floor. Start simple. You may end up preferring to model cars. Well that decision can affect the soft you use. You may end up enjoying the postwork more than the build. Well you'll probably want something that does alot of the "modeling" for you rather than a hardcore primitive start. Demos are fine when picking out a software (based on knowledge already had), but it's frustrating stuff when you don't know what the heck you are doing! (speaking from experience) Fabulous Free Starting Points: You THINK you want to model. You at the very least want to try. Better to start simple, learn the basic principles, and THEN move on (if you are still in love with the idea of course) Not only are these free, but their workflow can be "translated" to just about any "modeling tutorial". www.wings3d.com Wings3D www.anim8or.com Anim8or http://amapi.idevgames.com/ AMAPI These particular apps have their own forums and tutorials. I'll be honest, I'd LOVE to own SoftImage XSI. But I probably wouldn't use 1/3 of it and at 16K, that's NOT good finance. And isn't that the point? Getting as much bang for your buck and time? Find the application that fits the user's goals, not the "keywords" or "hot soft". If Anim8or is all you need, well more power to you. I've been kicking Strata around for a few months now, and I STILL don't know half of it. I don't have a favorite application persay. I have a favorite application RIGHT NOW, at this juncture of my career. And when my clients change, or my goals change, I may have to revisit the subject. But for my money, and needs Strata has everything including RAVix renderer, which is just an absolute KICK to render with... As far as tools etc. I think any application on the market that is recognizable by name has about the same as the next guy. They pretty much force each other to keep up the pace of subdiv, extrusion yadda yadda. Gamer's live in triangles, The rest of us live in quad (and sometimes triangles when we want to). We all want our soft to be polite. I HATE rude software. We want the GUI to flow naturally for us (and everyone has different opinions on interface). We all want a clean install procedure with no headaches. We all appreciate the little things coded in, like remembering which file I was last at saving a render. And to those extents, the Players are running neck in neck at times. It's not which app is better, it's which app is better SUITED for an individual's needs. And that's all I have to say about that. ;) Kat
Another Rhino plug :) First let me say that I've seen great models from all the apps out there. I started out with Bryce but wanted to try making my own models(tho I've seen some awesome models made in Bryce - Humorix is a good example). I tried demos for most of the modeling apps, but Rhino seemed to be easier get around in. I also used AutoCad in high school so that made for a plus. Like everyone else said it can handle all the details you can throw at it. It's main drawback for ME is the renderer. Also I've tried Lightwave unsuccessfully, but I must say I browse the LW forum everyday(after Rhino ofcourse) and there is always awesome models there...
Lightwave, is the tool i use, i've tried some others but they never got to me for diffrent reasons .. when i finally layed my eyes on Lightwave, i was sold, i could say; Love at first sight, cause thats what it was, this app had a certain something that the others didnt have and i liked the layout, functionality and the easy-to-learn concept. Thats how i experience LW, its easy to learn and to get an over-all grip on, a bit harder to master perhaps, but once you do, its well worth it cause it has everything you need, you dont need external plugins to get a certain job done, even if it sometimes speeds up the process, its not necessary! And another strong-hold is definatly the way you can approch a problem, when you encounter them - cause you probably will sooner or later in any app - you can always solve a problem in a variety of diffrent ways! I've seen a gazillion diffrent ways to create a certain mesh, this is good, cause you can always find your own methods and apply them to LW and get the job done! to put it simple, Lightwave is a great tool, easy to learn and a master among masters! :) Once and always a Lightwaver :) peace //Benny.
//Benny.
I've been using 3ds and Max from long time ago, and I find them pretty easy to use, what I don't like about Max is the way it works with NURBS, Max's NURBS are the weakest part of the program, because when you convert them to polys you can't get a clean mesh, No matter how hard you try to do it. It always triangularize the whole model, On the other hand I have been using LW and it is like other user said too Artisity fartsy :) It's modeler is really good with Subdivisions, but nothing really to makes me drop my jaw, other thing I've found about LW is the interfase, it is hard to understand. Rhino is the strongest aplication from my point of view to modelling NURBS models, but once again, if you don't set the right parameters when you export the model, you can get huges files because the high density mesh it generates. Maya has a great interfase and from my point of view is one of the stronger programs to make NURBS modeling to polys, but it's price and resources needs in hardware terms are the cons from my perspective. One of the finest and best modelling programs I've ever used was SoftImage, It is easy to use and it is very strong program, but once again its price (at least over here) put it at the unreacheable stand for common users like me. I had the chance to work with it when I was hired at a TV broadcast station over here, and I got a very pleaseant surprise with it :) maybe because I was using a silicon graphics octane putter too :) Autocad 14 - 2000 has the best boolean tools you can found for a 3D aplication, the cons about autocad is the rendering system and how it exports the polygones. But definitelly this is one of the stronger aplications to make industrial architectural modelling. Inventor 4 is great and it handles pretty well the NURBS, but its major problem is the complexity of the program, the interfase is kinda oriented for engineers. SolidThinking is a pretty good modelling program plus it has great interfases to digitalize sculptures, it can import/export almost any 3d format, its weakest part is the rendering system. Just to finish, without have the intention to boring you with explanations :) I do belive that the best application is the one that you can work confortable with it. All the programs named on this message has been tested and has always a strongest part than their competence, but once again the best program is that one that you know how to use it and get the best of it. My humble advise for newbies is that if you feel confortable with any program you have the 70% of the learning process of that aplication done. Regards Virus p.d. great topic :)
SAL9000 - Hello Dr. Chandra, Will I've dream?
Well, since we are talking about modellers, and not the whole package deal (renderer, IK, ect) I vote for Amapi. It is extreemly powerful, easy to use...and learn. The interface is the most natural flowing interface I have ever used. After long modelling periods, you start to wonder why other apps don't work the same way as Amapi. (If you use it alot, you know what I mean) Clean expors to OBJ format, and again for organic modelling I think it's the best. I can Sub-d model in Amapi 10x faster than any other method, in any other app. And the meshes are flowing continous, all quad meshes...not mix and match quad/tri crap. ~EA
well, i probably will never be considered a "modeller" in the true sense of the word. mostly, i like to draw. i tried different modelling apps., but, most of them did not click with my own brain. then, i tried amapi. it clicked. that led me to try rhino, another nurbs modeller....wow...did that ever click!!! i had fun drawing, and csecing, and lofting...and, basically, it was something that COULD make my doodles a 3d reality. that's what i want from a modelling app....to make my doodles come true. i tried strata 3d...i cannot really put shapes together and come out with a whole...but, i LOVE its renderer. rhino fails at rendering, pretty much. i bought 3d max about a year ago...and FORCED myself to work with it for at least 30 minutes each night....it was WORK. rhino is fun. so, it is rhino for me. even though i may never make a perfect car, or helicopter, or flying alien all terrain vehicle....i can learn to make monsters, and fairies, and well, even teapots, dolls 'n sleds. it depends on what each wants of a modeller, i think. ;*)
This is a terrific thread! I had my apprehensions at first about this thread erupting into a mini-modeling jihad. Thankfully modelers are an even handed sort of bunch that would much rather be making stuff than starting a flame war. Maybe you guys can post screen shots of the modeling interface screens and we can all do a "newbie" type walkthrough of us all building some very basic model. I definitely agree with the basic advise for newer modelers just starting out - get the demos first, and start with something simple. Go with what works best for how you want to work. Cheers! - M
Mind Over Matter
"If you don't mind, then it don't matter."
trueSpace is a really great tool for modeling. It includes a very healthy dose of polgonal tool as well as Sub-division surface and NURBs. What makes trueSpace unique is its lack of menus. Some say the icons take awhile to learn. But what program doesn't. Another neat trick that trueSpace throws at you is its context sensitive toolbars. When you are editing the mesh of an object a toolbar is floating nearby with the appropriate editing tools. Same goes for NURBs modeling. Also, it is all done in one full screen window for maxium editing. There are also 3d tools for manipulating the object, i.e. rotation and scaling without the need to hit a keyboard shortcut or push a button. For modeling, trueSpace is a very good all around program. Vincent
Great thread(and certainly well behaved considering other threads I've seen regarding this topic). I'm currently learing Amapi,Carrara 2,and TrueSpace 6. Althought the mass of icons a were a bit intimidating at first,I'm finding myself drawn to Truespace More than Carrara,and Carrara more so than Amapi. I'm sure once I get around to devoting an equal amount of time to all of them,I'll find things I like and dislike about them all. But Truespace is in the lead right now. I'm usually one to use menu's and draggable tools for object manitpulation rather than direct interaction within the workspace,but I'm finding the interactive workflow appealing in Truespace. Thanks for a good thread. Tom
“The fact that no one understands you…Doesn’t make you an artist.”
Me, I've tried LightWave, I've tried MAX, I've tried Carrara, and my tool of choice is Ray Dream. MAX operates in much the same way, and is in fact better at booleans than RDS, but is painfully overpriced in my opinion (couldn't afford my own copy, by a long shot), and tends to lead to too much reliance on simple primitives (never could figure out how to draw a plane and extrude it) while Ray Dream allows for a comfortable balance between primitive-based modeling and direct vertex editing- and, if anything, is faster and easier than the other aforementioned programs in the latter department. I generally end up getting a few hundred more polys than I would in MAX or Lightwave, and Carrara's got a few more tools for organics, but it's a rare occasion when these concerns have overridden my essential preference- I think the last time was when I was attempting to do a whole person from scratch, and I ended up not getting too far, anyway. I suppose it's half familiarity, half price tag, really.
Great job everyone ! I just wanted to add that often the app you start with ends up bieng your favorite regardless of the features i personaly use lw , but often am required to use maya and xsi both whic i also love alot but my workflow is just the most solid in lw i can do everyhthing there without having to stop and think about it ! This stems most likely form me starting out the hard core way with lw I used carrara and a few other apps but never was too serious til i got lw then i had to work hard for all the cahs i blew so this is something to consider as well ! Trav
Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=266493&Start=1&Sectionid=0&Form.Search=y%40&Form.Cri
ScottA ya got me thinking... When I use Rhino I also sculpt my cars in the same was as say SubD's but while I work it is already smoothed out no poly like. Anyhoo I find poly modeling great also, just doesn't work with my workflow. I create a block then deform and pull control points till I get the shape I need, I also add weights to section of control points to create hard edges and such. Then I chop it up by splitting and add new parts and modify as needed. This method works really well for fluid like shaped cars. But anyways just wanted to throw that out there, I'm using this method to design a Sports car for production. This should help out when having to have a 5 point axis Milling machine chew away at a block of foam material to create Carbon fiber body pannels. I'm looking at Rhino as Artistic engineering tool in some ways. Ahhhh I love the command line,, hehehe,, I feel I can see what the program is doing, I can also call it up at any point and see the history of commands used, very help full if you need a measurement that you may have used for scaling or moving or anything. Great topic, love reading what people have to say about there favorites and why so. Attached a link to my last personal project, needs more work, but the whole body of the car was made out of one chunk, then Added to it over a few days. about 8-10 hours of modeling.y@
I haven't heard anything about the dvgarage toolkit which is Electric Image 2.9. Its great, its cheap, it does nurbs, ubernurbs, splines, bezier, booleans, extrude, rotate, skin, you name it. the interface is easy to use. You can see the interface at www.annsartgallery.com/ei.html Make sure you scroll down. You can get the modeler, animator, and amorphium pro on the popup window at www.universe3d.com for 200 bucks.
Attached Link: http://www.wings3d.com
Well I'm a real newbie but I'll throw in my thoughts anyway :o) I've tried a few different apps and not got on with any of them very well. Amapi too unstable, Amorphium just plain unusable, Strata never got anywhere. Cinema and Lightwave are the two well known apps that have made some sense to me. Cinema has a great renderer and you can start producing really easily but the modeller is driving me NUTS! Every time you split a poly it adds a load of new edges, some in the most illogical places, that then have to be deleted again - if it will let you, it doesn't always! If you split a poly diagonally (triangulate) chances are it will split in the wrong direction and you have to undo and go through a series of menus to alter the point order GRRR! It's like russian roulette. Lightwave is growing on me thanks to TRAVISB's tutorial (When are we getting the next bit Travis?) and a lot of experimenting -I just discovered the Add Edge tool! I don't have the remotest idea about the rest of the app though and even if I did produce a decent render my discovery edition would screw it up with an horrendous watermark.I'd like to put in a vote for WINGS3D. It's a straight subd modeller, no whistles or bells. No Booleans, Splines, no Lathe or Nurbs and the renderer is next to useless.
BUT it's really easy to use, lets you do exactly what you want and it's FREE.
I've heard of Pros using Maya, Softimage, Lightwave and Max who prefer to model in Wings, it's THAT GOOD.
So at the moment I'm using Wings and rendering in Bryce (Slow but good and REALLY cheap!)
Baz
Glad to see someone feeling good about max. I used max for quite a while until i realized i was just wasting time, even after mastering it. Let me point a few things that made me drop it: 1. Max is not too stable, it crashes too often no matter how much ram or processor power you got. 2. OpenGL accelaration sucks! Maya, XSI, C4D and LW fly compared to max. Also, as you mentioned, it's a memory hog. Those two combined make max one of the slowest interfaces on the market. 3. Plugins are a great thing to have but i don't want my renderer to be a plugin, to mention one. You spend a lot of money in 3dsmax and then you have to spend a lot of money on a plugin to get decent renders???? I thought it was part of the package... XSI (and now Maya) give away Mental Ray for free! I still use max for some specific work. Some of max's tools are unbeatable and some of the plugins are amazing, although you now start to see some of those plugins being integrated with other apps (like thinking particles). I think discreet has a rather arrogant attitude and they think they own the market. You see A|W, Avid, Newtek and Maxon lowering their prices and you see discreet making a statement on how good and expensive their software is! That shows little respect for the 3D community imo... I hope they assume a more humble position and start working on 3dsmax 6 listening to their users, fixing those stability issues and providing everyone with another great 3D app on the market!
I tried Rhino and couldn't even make a ball with it. I tried Amapi and couldn't understand the interface at all. I tried Truespace and just wasn't comfortable with it. I tried Maya and again, just could not grasp the interface. I tried Carrara and it was good, but just not enough for me. I've never tried Lightwave. I use MAX. I don't have any technical reasons like other people do, though I suppose I could if I sat down and thought about it. It's all feeling for me. I'm comfortable in MAX. It works for me and I know where everything is and what it does. Well, not EVERYTHING, but everything I use and what I'm still learning. Granted, it takes time and work to learn. I knew that going in. But it's fun. I enjoy working in MAX, and more importantly, to me, I can do art in MAX. I enjoy modeling, but it's not all I want to do. I'm an artist. Any program I use has to be enable me to accomplish that. MAX does it for me. But it's not a technical thing. It is, as I said, a personal thing. A feeling. I think that's probably what it comes down to for everyone. How the app feels and if it's comfortable and fun for you to use.
Talent is God's gift to you. Using it is your gift to God.
My work comes more from an architectural/industrial design background, so it should come as no surprise that I am a long time AutoCAD user. I've been a big fan of 3D design on the computer for a long time. My first start in 3D was Turbo Silver on the Amiga. That latter evolved into Imagine on the PC. Imagine was a fine program for it's time (1993), but would be considered archaic by today's standards. The follow is a list of 3d programs that I have used professionally in chronological order. Turbo silver Imagine AutoCAD 3DSMAX and Rhino 2.0 I played with the demos for Truespace, Amapi, Cinema 4D and FormZ. Of all these programs the one I'm most enthusiastic about is Rhino. Coming from AutoCAD, Rhino was extremely easy to pick up. I really like working in NURBS. I can make the exact geometry, not an approximation of it. This precision allow for predictable results while trimming holes or doing Booleans etc. The commands work the way they should and the tutorials that come with the demo are easy to understand and really show the strength of Rhinos modeling abilities. Adding a fillet between the intersection of two curvilinear surfaces is one thing that Rhino can do easily. Ive been browsing through the application boards here at Renderosity on a regular basis for the last year and a half and the Rhino group seems to consistently generate high caliber work, followed closely by the Lightscape, and Cinema 4D group. This would lead me to believe that people are finding it easier to create complex 3d models in Rhino than any other program. Also Rhinos import/export functions are top notch. I dont have any problems getting geometry into or out from Rhino. I guess that is enough to say about PROS of Rhino, how about some of the CONS. Well, first off Rhino is a NURBS modeler, some applications, like game character design, may be better suited to a polygon modeler like Wings3d. Rhino is primarily a modeling program and as such it is intended as a companion to another software package, i.e. for rendering and/or animation. Rhino has the mirror command, but lacks a true symmetry feature. This would be useful for tracing cross-sections from a bitmap. Rhino needs clean geometry to perform some of its advanced operations; sometimes it wont let you blend a trimmed surface and requires you to rebuild it among other things. This might force you to build you object in another way to allow for certain types of editing. Rhino isnt a parametric modeler, so that may be a concern if you are used to designing in a program such as Solidworks. And now for some completely bias opinions of some of the other programs Ive used. 3DSMAX: I like the interface and material handling of this program, but the modeling features are somewhat clumsy. There are a lot of modifiers like, twist, bend, etc., that are probably useful for animation, but not for modeling. I saw a demonstration of 3DSMAX 5. Its rendering engine is much improved, looked as good as Lightscapes. If youre into character design, they had some pretty need modeling tools for that as well. Truespace: Tried the demo, but I couldnt make much sense of it. I couldnt get fast results, so I got frustrated and deleted it of my hard drive. Cinema 4D: I downloaded the demo and while I liked the interface, I was still lost for the most part. I didnt find it intuitive and ended up erasing it as well. FormZ: Architects are supposed to love this program, so being an Architect, I decided I should try it out. In the 2d area it seems a lot like CorelDRAW, and as such fairly easy to pick up, but jumping to 3d seemed to require a few extra steps that I wouldnt need to take if I was modeling in Rhino. There may be a good program in there, a little more time with it would probably answer that question. Lightwave: I havent tried the demo yet, but Im very impressed with the work Ive seem coming from the LW users. I would like something for animation/rendering and Lightwave would be a cost effective way to go for me. But Im more familiar with 3DSMAX, if I could get 3DSVIZ and Final Render that would probably meet my needs, but that is a little out of my range at the moment. Also, seeing pictures of the Lightwave interface leaves me cold. Im hoping that I dont find it to sterile. I like programs that give you a pull-down menu, icons and a command bar. Havent to switch apps to render seems like downer as well. Amapi: Tried to do a revolve shape and it took me an hour to figure it out. Then it hung up and crashed. Oh well, I already have an app that can do revolves. Here in Kansas City, the number one used application is 3DSMAX, then Maya and followed closely by Lightwave. 3DSMAX seems to be dominant in the architecture / product field. Maya is dominant in the film/television commercial field and the freelance types use Lightwave. -Rhettro
I have seen some amazing work done it FormZ, but like you, i couldn't make much sense of the demo. And it doesn't seem to be in general use among 3D artists. Mostly architects and such. But it does seem to do absolutely beautiful work if you master it.
Talent is God's gift to you. Using it is your gift to God.
so far this is a great thread, i think the reason it hasnt erupted into a flame war is becuase most here have tried out a wide variety of apps before settling on a particular favorite . as has been said several times most of it seems to be how the app siuts you rather than which has the coolest tools. they all basically do the same thing after all. cheers stu
Me, I started with Ray dream, got into Carrera Carrera has some nice options- it does have once of nicest cartoon renders. However it was too buggy and the interface was so "userfiendly" it got annoying- You know too friendly ti the piont of useless - like several peopel I know in the real world. and when I judged that a dead end, (too buggy) I shopped arround Amapi- Got a free copy of v5 with Carrera. While i did not run into any buggs mentioned here, I found Apami suffers from the overly friendly interface syndrome. I did manage to make soem very nice tubes and shinpads with it. This is what happend when artists program. 3DSMax and Maya- simply too expensive for a hobbiest even at academic pricing. True Space- The demo was simply too buggy. I figured if this is what they trying to sell their product and it chrashes whenever I breath heavily it does not bode well. Besides I never did fgure out thier shaders Cinema 4D what can I say teh moment I starte dteh demo I laphed I cried I think I had an orgasm. I may not be teh best fit for everyone but it sings to me. I found teh interface totally intuitive. Maybe because I have a thing for nuts and bolts germanic logic. Its price US$300 for acedemic pricing was more than I liked to spend but well worth it. What really sold me is that its pretty much unsinkable. Just upgraded to v8 last week. Lightwave- I am thinking about this a next step in a couple years. In fact have teh demo disk right here waiting to be installed. Not sure if its worth it though. Especially after reading soem comments Having said that, I still find myself cranking up Ray Dream for the simplier jobs-especially morphs. Cinema 4d v7 did not inport OBj object in teh correct vertex order but v8 seems to have fixed it. But I'll probably keep RDS on my hard drive. What can i say. you never forget your first love.
I live in Los Angeles. And, sometimes I get REALLY interested in doing 3D for a living and start looking around town, I mean hey, it's Los Angeles I drive by big 3D companies all the time. It seems that THE most saught after artists are to know either 3D Studio Max or Maya and preferebly both, and anything else you can handle... Also, nurbs are being use more and more. (It seems) I suppose if I were to spend the thousands of dollars it takes to go to 3D school...I would REALLY like to learn Maya (full out), but it seems 3D Studio Max is the base for most everything. Ah, I still have TONS that I can learn just on my own first, before going and spending all my lunch money. AgentSmith
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when I wanted to be what I am now"
Nurbs gives you the best results for character modeling because of the amount of detain you can model. But it's also the most time, memory and processor intensive method of modeling, at least in MAX. But if you're creating organics for close up on film, and need to model the wrinkles and scars, nurbs rules. Wish I understood more, but I'm a nurbs newbie.
Talent is God's gift to you. Using it is your gift to God.
Personally I like Poly's/subDs for that kind of stuff now...its just cleaner, and the details are only where you need them, and not spanning all the way across the surface, thus making it harder to animate...but thats just IMO ;) They say that patch modeling is pretty good for that too..but I've not tried it yet so I can't really comment on that just yet. -Modulok-
Originally designed as a low-polygon modeler for the computer game Half-Life, MilkShape has expanded over the years to support numerous games and file types. It includes basic tools like subdivision, extrusion, weld and unweld, etc.
I've used MilkShape to create all of my contributions to Free Stuff.
Strengths:
Clean, simple interface
Expandable through third-party plugins (SDK readily available)
Updated regularly (every few weeks, on average)
Supports dozens of 3D file formats
Excellent mesh-smoothing and mesh-reduction tools
Inexpensive ($25)
Weaknesses:
Polygons only (no nurbs, splines, patches, or whatever you call them)
Triangles only (quads aren't supported)
Polycount limit (16384 triangles maximum)
Limited UV-mapping tools
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Ok i thought it may be nice for users thinking of buying or switching apps to hear from users of those apps kinda like a show and tell of your likes dislikes of the app you use ! this is a dreaded question at alot of forums but i feel this is a good place to actauly have a postive discussion on which app and why you like the app etc or dont like but please keep any flames down or ill be forced to delete the thread ! Im hoping this can solve alot of qustions for those thinking of or having a hard time deciding what to spend there cash on please explain what the app uses polys nurbs both sub d etc and give examples