" However, it's not very tasteful, now is it? I wouldn't want this to be a freebie here. Why? it's just not tasteful." Oh Christ, Khryst. I mean Khrys, There is nothing tasteless about that manly thumbnail. Nothing at all. Its a human body part. Get over it. Again, Renderosity is not and has never been a "Family site" Sure there isn't gratuitous sex in the freebie thumbs because that would serve nothing But if your manly thumb happened to be a vastly more realistic texture for that manly body part then I would want to see the quality of it prior to downloading.

"And the ones who are convinced that all the naked Vickis here are a sign that women are demeaned somehow" JUst the logic that the display of nude women it what ever janra(spelling?) is also ridiculous. Take hetero porn for instance. Isn't the guy also being demeaned?Especiallly since the male actore only makes a quarter of what the females do. Okay, so some actors call the actresses names and stuff. I do think that that is piggish of men an therefore demeaning but still, in the end the actress has the upperhand. And what of gay porn? OF the two actors which is the one being demeaned? The catcher other pitcher? If both are not famous do they both make the same amount of money? Why is it that some women always complain about things that demean women but they never bother to mention that its demeaning to men too using thier logic. Its because really they know that its not demeaning and that they wish they were making the money that the actresses are. BTW they start at 1k per day all the way up to 5k and possibly more. Averge video can take up to 3 days and each actress pumps out, so to speak, several videos a month. Do the math who's being exploited here? The men. PeteJ

Let me guess, this thread is a spin off of Seinfield, right? An unaired episode perhaps? The one were Elaine decides to get a boob job, but than is not sure if they feel right or not, so she asks Jerry to feel her boobs. He's not sure, so he has George and Kramer feel her boobs. After that, they still are not sure so they start groping all the women they met, trying to decide if Elaine's new boobs feel like other women's boobs, only they plot thickens as they began to argue - er make that debate - whether or not the woman (women) they just groped had real boobs or fake boobs. So the episode ends. But than, Seinfield was a show that prided itself on being a show about nothing....

"... Really. Okay, once again I state: I don't care about nudity or sex in the least, so long as they're in the right places. If someone came into a public school and shoved her breasts at a kid, I'd call the cops and then take the kid to a therapist." And if I was your kid, I would kick you in the knee for calling the cops and then in your bits for wasting money on a shrink when all that needed to be done was for you and I to discuss what I saw. LOL. "If some woman was walking down the street and shoved her nude breasts at me? I'd call the cops and probably ask her what she was on." If some woman did that to me I'd love it. Especially if she was attractive. Similarly,I would bet that if a guy did that to you with his bits, you would not object in the least if he were attractive. If you did object then you would not be gay as you say you are. There's a time and a place for 'vulgar' nudity, and the freestuff area is NOT the place. There is no "vulgar" nudity in in the freestuff. I know this woman I work with who's boods are each larger than her waste and she is fat. Unattractive to me? Yes. Vulgar? no. Even when she grabs them to push them out of the way or reset them. Not vulgar. About the Renderotica remark: Well seeing how the display of nudity on the thumbs has been around since before what is now renderosity existed. Obviously it is appropriate for this website. PLease go create a Poser PC website for yourself and those like you if you wish. The way I see it, you have no right to complain. YOu knew what this site was all about the first time you came here and it will not waver from that in the future. Again stop surfing when your kids are around. Turn off the thumbs. YOu cannot have it both ways. Besides, in your case you do not need to see the thumbs since you do not feel the need to see what the upload does prior to your downloading it. PeteJ

This thumbnail violates one of the sacred-and-oft-quoted Renderosity Terms of Service, this one regarding acceptable images: "No Explicit sexual content [No manipulation of breasts/nipples/ no sexual situations/ no 'implied' sexual situations" Discussion over. (Unless, of course, this is one of the thousand-and-one exceptions the PTB decide to make, by either omission or commission, to the otherwise-sacred TOS.) The only item it supposedly violates is "manipulation of..." However that does not mean just any manipulation in my opinion. That measn manipulation is a sexual manor. Grabbing ones breasts or bits is not a sexual act. PeteJ

Who would be interested in this anyway?" Those of us who are interested in having the characters body behave a close to real as POser will allow in animations. The tutorial is how to make the skin react to preassure from gravity or other objects. Its not a big tit thing. PeteJ

"If some woman did that to me I'd love it. Especially if she was attractive. Similarly,I would bet that if a guy did that to you with his bits, you would not object in the least if he were attractive. If you did object then you would not be gay as you say you are." So I guess that means the next time a man exposes himself indecently to me, I shouldn't object? Otherwise I must not be as straight as I say I am? Oh right, it's only if he's ugly that I should object? What, if he's good looking, I should be grateful for a glance at his dangly bits? I don't think so.

Oh, come on. Everyone knows women will have sex with any man who exposes his large genitals. At least, that's what the spam in my spamtrap seems to want me to believe... ;-) bonni

Dear Khrys, 1)In the country I'm from You - and not you - is an epistular form of courtesy. 2)Who said "Thread's dead. LET IT DIE". I counted nine replies from Khrys since... 3)"If someone came into a public school and shoved her breasts at a kid, I'd call the cops and then take the kid to a therapist. If some woman was walking down the street and shoved her nude breasts at me? I'd call the cops and probably ask her what she was on." You really like cops, don't You (again). That's nothing wrong with that, but taking a kid to a therapist because a woman showed her breasts to him...I really don't know, in the ancient country I live in women shows their breasts to children in order to feed them. I already said: kids never get things wrong...unless someone teaches that them. 4)Maybe it's (was) against Renderosity TOS (whatever that means), but I always like playing than getting too serious (kids teach me that everyday). 5)Again, I apologize for my bad English. Alberto

I'm speaking as guy. For example, most straight men would love a woman to just walk up to hem and sy lets "F" Provided that the person approching were found to be attractive. And in some cases just the mear fact that they were approched in that way does great things for the esteem GAy or straight a guy will always be a guy. Women on the otherhand don't feel this way. They think they are being objectified. As men are too in the above example But eveyone objectifies everyone else. YOu see a guy across the room, you might think "wow he;s attractive" or "he's hot" or "wow I'd love to do it with him". Either way, you have just objectified him. YOu might be speaking to a guy, say over the phone or something. YOu tmight think "God his voice is sexy" YOu just objectified him The first time a person meet anyone, they objectify by thinking "Handsome", "Ugly", etc. A straight guy meets another straight guy for the first time who's face might all be twisted and if deemed offensive in some small way, they have objectified "So I guess that means the next time a man exposes himself indecently to me, I shouldn't object? Well no. OF course if the guy looks unattractive I guess you are free to do so. Even so, just the mere fact that he did it means your attractiveness compelled him to do so. If a female did that to me I would be flattered and it boosts my esteem immensly. How many guys do you know that would not welcome a "flasing" from a female. Likely none. Except maybe a priest or something. But we know deep down they really like it. Otherwise I must not be as straight as I say I am? Oh right, it's only if he's ugly that I should object? What, if he's good looking, I should be grateful for a glance at his dangly bits?" Not grateful but at leat feeling flattered maybe. PeteJ

"They think they are being objectified." as a woman... have to say, only in certain cases, under certain circumstances. I think a better way to describe it, if a man makes an untoward advance, is that we women feel sometimes threatened by the act. To some degree I think this is a biological response: women are simply smaller than men on average, and so there's some good old fashioned fear of being forced into a sexual situation against our will. Personally I never found a man's sexual anatomy to be all that attractive to me, it depended on the personality of the man much more so than just his appearance. So, if a man exposes his genitals to me without any rhyme or reason, I'm likely to feel disturbed by the situation. However with art its different... I don't feel disturbed by a rendering of a naked man in any way, shape or form. Art is not a potential physical threat, like a man in your personal space can be. However from a familiar and wanted man... I think the response would be to be flattered and perhaps flirtatious, a real boost to the self esteem, I'm sure of that.

Good freaking lord. I go to bed, wake up and ONE PERSON has made TEN replies. To himself. And quite frankly, if some guy came up to me and shoved his groin in my face, I don't care WHO he is, I'd punch him and walk off. Why? I have a bit of class and taste, and don't let my hormones rule my head, apparently unlike pjanak whose reply content makes me think he's perhaps just recently finished puberty. "Oh Christ, Khryst. I mean Khrys, There is nothing tasteless about that manly thumbnail. Nothing at all. Its a human body part. Get over it." You obviously do not know what the word 'tasteful' means. Allow me to give you a webster definition: adj 1: having or showing or conforming to good taste [syn: in good taste(p)] [ant: tasteless] 2: having flavor [ant: tasteless] 3: free from what is /tawdry/ or /unbecoming/; "a neat style"; "a neat set of rules"; "she hated to have her neat plans upset" [syn: neat, refined] Tawdry: adj. tawdrier, tawdriest Gaudy and cheap in nature or appearance. See Synonyms at gaudy1. Shameful or indecent: tawdry secrets. 2. Very fine and showy in colors, without taste or elegance; Would I call both the thumbnail for softer bodies and the cheap shot I made tawdry? Hell yes. Would I call them tasteless? Hell yes. It's NOT something I would hang on my wall, it's NOT something I would so to my friends, except to perhaps emotionally scar them. And I'll thank you not to imply that I have a persecution complex or that I think I'm the Christian savior. My parents picked the name, not I. I'd much rather have gone by my middle name, Austin, but by the time I'd figured it out, it was too late, the name had stuck. And for goodness sake, quit flaming people. Find a hobby, that's what this site's about. Everyone else has pretty much agreed that the thread is dead and you're still yammering on like one of those little annoying dogs...

"Not grateful but at leat feeling flattered maybe." That is the exact attitude I spend my entire life fighting. Have you any idea what kind of pain that kind of statement causes a rape victim? It is attitudes like this which prevent women (and men) desparately in need of help, from seeking it... for fear of what people will think/say. Please, please think about what you are saying. I am sure you don't really believe that victims of sexual assault should be flattered by the attention of their attacker. Please think about your words, you have no idea of the hurt they can cause, I hope without meaning to. Well now this thread has gone from a discussion on nudity in art and advertising to violent crime, I think it's time I bowed out...

I agree, Karen, and I honestly think it's time the mods lock the thread.

If I am walking down a street and a guy wolf whistles it IS flattering. However he better stay in his space, because like bijou mentioned, if he moved in close I would feel threatened. I don't think that if a woman flashed her breasts in a school that the kids would need therapy. They're just breasts. All women have them including the kid's mother. I do know plenty of men who would just LOVE it if a random woman walked up to them and exposed her breasts. Mardi Gras, anyone? Girls Gone Wild? ;) I personally am not bothered by that thumbnail. It does fit its tutorial shrug. Neither did I care about the penis shot up above.

You spent all day yesterday here, been here since some very early hour (5am MST, and if you of course live in North America, that means 7am... way too damned early for any sane man to rant, ne?) Next time, email the guy, then email the mod. Me, I was having fun at it, and left it at that. You seem to have taken it personally... It simply ain't that big of a deal IMO. /P

I'm not taking it personally. I just happen to spend ALL my time on the computer, since this is where I work, and tend to relax. And Yahoomail tells me with a loud 'BONG' sound that I've gotten a response. I asked Deemarie to just LOCK the damn thread last night, but she's not been on to do so. For that matter, I keep strange hours. I was perfectly content to let it die last night once the image in question was removed because it violated the TOS. Then the Flamer decided to post ten times. And I got ten ebots telling me he'd written responses, plus the one or two others saying so as well. And I'm a naturally curious person. So. I click, see they're ALL from him. Pjanik made a personal attack against me. I rebuffed him. Simple. Now. Let's let the stupid thread DIE.

"...and Yahoomail tells me with a loud 'BONG' sound that I've gotten a response" Err, turn off the ebot? But yeah, time for the thread to die... but I really feel like looking at some breasts when I get home now. (evil grin) /P

laughs You do that, dude. Have fun, and congrats on the bebe!

Well, I just read the tutorial. Guys seems okay. Feel bad all this rained down on s/him. Big boobs even are reasonable in context of tutorial says Lord Judge Mom ;) My issue in the thread has not been this particular but the issue of curtesy in the Freestuff, I actuall almost didn't comeback here after that Nazi stuff, that is the worst I have ever seen. Why don't I turn off the Thumbnails? Because without them there is NO hope of knowing what the downloads are... you try it... rarely are the pop up notes illuminating. Not all of us have unfetter access to a private computer, are we unworthy to be here? I'm just asking for curtesy... I don't care whats happening in the gallerys, I MEAN I DO NOT CARE, but I would like the banners, thumbnails and forums to be used with consideration and civility since they constitute the "virtual public space" of the site. This whole male female thing bores me, I can't even engage in a discusion that equates the objectification of male bodies with the objectification of female bodies when we accept without pause the female apartide edemic in most of the world without question... come on... people whoe equate the penis with the female breasts who who if I showed them a vulva would call it a vagina? You can talk to me about a level playing feild when the the equivilent of the graphic representation of a womans breasts is a mans breasts.

I often wonder if the fellows who imagine women should feel flattered by catcalls are the same fellows who are enraged when an othetr man politely expresses interest in them? I have never understood why some men get so enraged by the mere idea of being hit on by "gays", why so many men feel they have to keep gays out of the military in case other men might merely be silently looking at them and doing nothing, yet women are supposed to enjoy the attention of sexual harasment, intimidation or even sexual abuse and be good sports about it. Next time you think about how you would feel about some woman flashing you... think about weather you would feel as good about some dude doing it you... in either case it might be a little presumptuous. On the other hand... it infurates my children to see roofers at work, the men with thier shirts of and the women sweating, they say either "the women should get thier shirts off too or the men should have to wear thiers".

Everyone...ALL of you....have to agree with me. Me. ME!!!

You must do exactly what I have decided should be done. If you don't, I will sic the TOS on you!

Any dispute or disagreement with my positions constitutes flaming. Your points are are invalid. You are hereby placed on OFFICIAL NOTICE: you have been labeled.

Now, I shall go off and eat some fish and chips.

[[I am NOT smug.....not at all.......]]

lol

So if something's against the TOS, it should be allowed to stay up, huh? You agreed on the Terms Of Service when you joined the site, just like the rest of us. I did NOT sic the TOS on this, because I did NOT know it was against the TOS. I asked a question. Was the thumbnail too provocative? A lot of people said yes. I was told by several people to contact both a mod AND the original author. I did as I was told I should. DeeMarie saw fit to remove it. She was the final judge, NOT myself. Not ANYONE ELSE IN THE THREAD. We're ALL just members, not mods. I've been trying hard to keep the discussion civil and reasonable. I bear no ill will toward anyone here, especially those who've managed intelligent debate without resorting to attacking the other party in the process. Just... let it DIE, people. Attacking someone for having different viewpoints is NOT cool. glances at Xeno

Dude, get with the program. English, don't YOU speak it? Sound familiar? Yet you go on about how people shouldn't be rude... roflmao They really need emoticons here.

Gotta agree with Caly here... (funny though, Khrys... you're so eager to let the thread die, yet you keep fueling it - strange.) Now, for the reason I posted? (cue ominous music here...) I find Xenophonz' views to be callous, cruel, and far too narrow for a civilized person. I hereby challenge Xenophonz to handbags at dawn! :p Oh, there was something else, too: Momodot sez: " I often wonder if the fellows who imagine women should feel flattered by catcalls are the same fellows who are enraged when an othetr man politely expresses interest in them?" Actually, the two aren't linked in any meaningful way, IMHO. There is a difference between the act of treating women (or anyone else for that matter) as mere playthings and disliking the gay lifestyle. Something to consider... /P

Handbags, Peng? Shouldn't it be Dufflebags at dawn? :D Hey I actually do feel flattered by catcalls! And I'm a woman. :D That doesn't mean I want the guys to move any closer though.

HUH?................still going? will this saga ever end? ROFLMAO 8D And I'm not going to turn off my ebots 'cos I have lots of threads I want to keep an eye on. I only come back to this one 'cos it has made me larf for 2 days now and IT'S STILL GOING ON. 8) Catlin

I was tired, and I apologise, Caly. At least I've got the guts to do it and admit when I'm wrong. I shouldn't have even started the damn thread, and I've asked no less than three mods to lock it since yesterday afternoon because it was just the SAME OLD THING OVER AND OVER AND OVER... Uh, Cait? Only been going on since yesterday. Peng, I think what Mom was saying is this: Men don't mind hitting callously on women. But when another man says, "Wanna have dinner and a movie?" he gets beat up, made fun of or otherwise rebuffed by the majority of heterosexual men. Yet it's perfectly alright for Macho Man to go grab some woman's ass, or something else along those lines, and doesn't understand WHY she slaps him.

Peng --

Back in my college days, I used to fence with the epee. I was good at it, too.

I'll have my second get in touch with your man. The meadow at dawn, I think. If the grass is dry.

I have never claimed to be civilized. Why would I want to go and spoil my reputation like that???

Peng --

THAT is what I am upset about!

You associated ME with the concept of being CIVILIZED! What a terrible insult!

Yes, yes.....if the grass is dry.

Khrys, Why don't you make your final, final post and then uncheck that, "Email me when someone replies", box ? Then the thread will die for you. Quit asking mods to lock a thread that you only started. This thread is a community thread and people can say what they will. Asking mods to, "lock" this thread when other people want to comment is very rude and smacks of censorship. If YOU are done with this thread then take my advice above and leave us to OUR thread.

"Men don't mind hitting callously on women""I'll have my second get in touch with your man. The meadow at dawn, I think. If the grass is dry." The meadow will do fine. It is on, then. BTW - Is armor-plating on the Gucci acceptable, and shall it be pumps or stilettoes? /P /P

The last time that I "hit" a "woman" was sometime back in the 60's or 70's.

She was my sister, and we were both quite young.

After a time, I grew up. And I have never "hit", nor "hitt-ed" on a woman since then.

BTW - Is armor-plating on the Gucci acceptable, and shall it be pumps or stilettoes

Neither. Just nerf blades on the swords.

Badco: Already done it twice. Won't quit emailing. Peng: Stilettoes! They'd really show off your calf armor!

Rofl.............again! 8)

Thanks for everyone's input, however the subject has gone from helpful commentary to personal attacks, which, as everyone one know is against TOS Thomas Poser Coordinator

smitthms, Actually its, as everyone knows, not, "as everyone one know". Glad I could help ! Btw, consider this your first warning. You are impeading the progress of comedy. We are laughing and you are bumming us out. Please don't let this happen again or we might have to ban you for a week. Citizens Arrest

Sorry folks but this is a lock down..... :~) This thread has worn itself out and the horse is a bloody pulp. No vet can save him. Michelle A. Moderator.... but sometimes I'm called that mean lady with the paddle. ;~)