If you have questions about the new security system we are adopting here at Curious Labs, I would truly value being able to answer those. I have a few suggestions for this thread that are a little unusual and a few reasons for that request. Could you post your questions numerically, so that my reply can address each specifically? Also could you please not repost or restate the same question? As well, please restrict this thread to questions about the security issue. Feel free to start new threads to post your opinions about the responses. My reasons for this request is simple. I'd like to be sure that I can answer your questions in an orderly fashion, and in a way that similar questions can be answered with a reference to the previous post of that question, with a number for reference as needed. Thank you for the opportunity to address your concerns. We do believe in Poser. We do believe in our users. And we do want to be sure that as many of your fears are resolved as possible. Sincerely, Steve Cooper Preisdent, Curious Labs

1.) If Curious Labs goes out of business, how do I continue to use your products when I upgrade to a new machine? TygerCub hoping this is what you meant by numbering

This post is exact as I requested. Thank you for the first post, and probably the best question of all... 1. In the unlikely event that we should not be able to continue doing business, we would create a simple update to whatever versions are current, that would allow for the installer to run without an unlock code. Steve Cooper

1. when will the security be in place, under what? the new cd copies of PPP, or it's Update, or seperaratley?

sorry about that..had the same numbers as the previous post. 3.) Do You market your program in the stores or is it exclusive to the web? 4.) How serious is the possiblity of Curious going out of Business? 5.)Will the new secruty Measures help keep Your great product out of the hands of people who try to get it by less than legal means?

1. How is this going to work? (Sorry. I don't have time to read all 93 messages on the other thread.) 7) Will Poser become disabled if I change my video card, network card, etc?

1. The new security system will be found in the soon to be released updater, due out very shortly. Current inventory of CDs will be sold as is, if new CDs are required, the updated version will be on the CD as well. Pro Pack was always intended to not be released without protection, but our registration process needed more work, and we decided to release Pro Pack unprotected. We saw the error in that choice within hours of release. 3. We market via the web and catalog. 4. Curious Labs and Egisys AG are doing very well, with lots of product development opportunities and strong partners. We are very solid today. 5. We have faith that the new security measures will provide solid protection and keep Poser in the hands of those who have legitimately purchased it. The system we are using is very unique, well engineered and has provides a very deep, yet very easy to use degree of protection both on our end and at the enduser level.

1. When you run the installer for the Pro Pack's updater, the first use of our new system, you can choose to automatically or manually authorize or wait to authorize, giving you seven days of use of the app, if you choose the automatic process, you will be asked to enter in your Pro Pack serial number, email address and other optional information. The email address is used to send an email as a backup to the automatic registration process. A unique machine ID is generated on your system and is then tranfered to our server. You will be brought to a webpage which displays your machine code along with any other information for you to validate. Once that information has been validated, an unlocking repsonse code is transferred to the Pro Pack installer. You will not need to enter any other numbers or codes, you'll be done with the registration process. The Plug-ins will now work without any other steps, and this authorization code generated by our server will even withstand a reformatting of your hard drive. If you choose the manual process you will be supplied with a phone number, an email address, a website and a fax number to send your machine ID code to. We will then generate a unique authorization code and send it back however you request. If you need to reinstall on the same machine or hard drive, you will not need to re-authorize. If you need to install on another machine, or on a new hard drive, you will need to re-authorize. You will be permitted to re-authorize a reasonable number of times. 7. We haven't been able to test every possible hardware swapping scenario, but the code is tied to the hard drive, so other items will likely have no efect on your registration. If you swap hardware, and it does effect your running copy, you can re-authorize. If you have used up your default authroizations, send us email, a fax, or visit our website to request additional re-authorizations.

1. How can I use Poser on 2 machines? I have a desktop and a laptop. I only use one at a time, and only I use either computer. Will this allow me to install/use on both machines - one machine at a time, of course?

Kupa wrote: >>>>>>>> A unique machine ID is generated on your system and is then tranfered to our server. <<<<<<<< 9) How is this code generated? What information does it use from our systems? I don't expect you to give out secrets, but I feel we're entitled to know in general terms what of anything of 'ours' is being used and transferred to yourselves.

Steve; 10) On registering the software, will the user be told where, or how the authorization code is kept on their system. Will they also be given instructions, on how to remove the code if they no longer have use for the software in the future? 11) Will re-partitioning the HD remove the code? Cheers

12.) I was reading the 98 posts on this subject..lol..another question. As I understand it form your answer to my questions above. That the authorization survives reformats..a good thing..so you dont have to reauth everytime you reformat..is this correct? 13.)There was some concernin the posts I read about this new protection feature checking your whole harddrive for other software and whether or not its legal..Is this true? And who would it report it too? Thanks for all your great Responses:)

<<14>>Can this code that alledgedly survives a reformat survive a Master Boot Record sweep, an unconditional reformat, and/or fdisking?????? as previously stated in the Longest Thread in the World, a lot of us propellerhead types reformat every few months or so, need it or not....and when i do it, i'm not playin'....i scrub it to the bone......i really don't see a change in my maintenance habits, so i'd like to have this issue addressed.......

Attached Link: http://www.curiouslabs.com

I just wanted to jump in and help Kupa out. PJF: 9)The code is generated using unique hardware identifiers. No personal information is used, and we don't check the contents of your drive except to locate your copy of Poser and Pro Pack. Crescent: 8)Both Poser and Pro Pack are hybrid CD's so we decided that two uses of your serial numbers was a must. One Mac and one for Windows. We actually allow your serial number to be registered 3 times. The third to hopefully eleviate the need to contact us, for example, when you get a shiney new Titanuim G4. Cheers: 10) To unregister will require contact with Curious Labs either through an automated web connection, calling Curious Labs, or faxing us. 11)Repartitioning will not remove the authorization.. Searose: 12) You do not have to reauth each time you format. 13)We absolutely do not check the hard drive at all for any software other than our own. **************************** Steve Yatson Product Manager Curious Labs Http://www.curiouslabs.com ****************************

1. will fdisk /mbr remove the registrstion ?? Are you writing the code to Master Boot Record ???

Seems the previous post had a repeated number, so I'll start at 16... 16.) Not everyone who uses Poser has internet access. Is this to say that you will now be required to have access to the internet in order to use Poser? 17.) I've had difficulties installing Pro Pack using my Metacreations serial number, an issue that was resolved after much confusion and turmoil (actually, I had to call a friend who had bought Poser 4 after Curious Labs took over, and get a Curious Labs serial number, which worked no problem.) Will this issue have been resolved with the upcoming patch, or am I going to be forced to purchase another copy of a product that I already own in order to use it in the future? 18.) How, if users without an internet connection will still be able to use Pro Pack, will your system still be 100% efficient? In the case of another product I am aware of which uses the Internet to verify registration, the user is still able to use a firewall to prevent that application from accessing the internet, thus bypassing the copy protection. Have you looked into this potential problem? 19.) Once thsi security issue has been addressed, can we expect to see more updates to Poser to improve it's features? Or is this update solely to ensure your protection, and no gain for the end user, other then a bit of extra hassle. I mean, i for one am not willing to go through the extra trouble when I'm already an owner of the software to downlaod an update of which the sole purpose is to protect the manufacturer. I mean, hey, if I already own the software, and know that I got it through legitimate means, then why should I bother? Doesn't seem to do much good to me. I'm not trying to sound like a pecimist. I am 100% behind you guys, I'm just trying to offer questions that some people may have been wondering but didn't want to ask because they were afraid that their motives would be questioned. I think that enough people in this community know me and know that I am all about this community to realise I woldn't wish anything bad upon Curious Labs, DAZ, or anyone else who provides us with the tools we need to express our artistic notions. As such, I'm not afraid to ask these questions, as I believe they might be means by which the Software Pirates may continue to steal from you and this community if they are not addressed.

Steve: 20) I'd like your comment on the following. The only people that will suffer from such software protection measures are the legitimate buyers of the product. Every single piece of software protection so far, including SoftImage/Maya's FlexLM server-based locks and 3DSMAX's hardware dongles have been cracked. I think that its pretentious of you to believe that your software protection will hold up any better. Its only a matter of time until a someone releases a key-generator or crack for your product. Therefore, illigitimate users will be able to generate their own keys or circumvent your authorization while we, the legal purchasers of your software will be severely inconvenienced by the authorization process. I'm not going to go into detail about how we will be inconvenienced or what legal implications this method of software protection may have -- the other posters have done that for me. I'd just like to hear why you think that this software protection method is going to be uncrackable, and why its worth angering every one of your legitimate users.

No Item.) I believe darchangel has also managed to cover another area at which my post was hinting. This will not be uncrackable... just as there is no such thing as privacy... There is always someone better. In this case, there will be a better programmer out there who is able to find a loophole in your process or a workaround, such as via a firewall, as it is highly unlikely that you can honestly intend to release a product that you must have an internet connection to use when it is not an internet-related application. And I too would like to know exactly what information you will be collecting from our computers, as we have a right to know, and measures such as that put you in very shadowy legal waters, the likes of which I would hate to see happen. But it lines you up for them if you're not careful (and you can never be too careful, or careful enough) Please clarify this for us.

#21 "The code is generated using unique hardware identifiers. No personal information is used, and we don't check the contents of your drive except to locate your copy of Poser and Pro Pack" OK. That tells me WHY fdisk will not make any difference. And WHY the authorization will still work. So that means it's based on our hardware. So does this mean what I think it does and every time we upgrade our systems. For example: a new video card. That we will need to re-register. To get Poser to work? ScottA

21.B)[Same Question, clarified] If the system uses unique hardware identifiers, then what part of our hardware does it identify us by? I upgrade my motherboard, CPU, everything, every chance I possibly get. My system doesn't retain any components of previous incarnations within 8 or 9 months... that is to say, the longest a single piece of hardware remains on my system is usually 8 or 9 months... a year, TOPS. If you are identifying us by our hardware, then how do you account for people like myself? Do we simply "get the shaft" because we like to have an upgraded system, and therefor have to go through an insane hassle everytime we even consider an upgrade?

as a codicil, to the above two questions, i work as a tech and often use my own personal machine (where I run my poser) as a hardware testing ground. In the last three months it has had 4 different harddives. In the last three weeks alone it has had 4 different video cards in it, the dvd and burner changed and two full fdisk and formats, and a new case and power supply. In fact the only thing that has stayed consistent over the last six months is the motherboard, processor and ram, and even the board has had the bios flashed twice. it seems to me I am going to be calling you guys every second week going "WAAAAAAAH my poser won;t work" LOL

1. A little off the subject here, but its in the lines of the update: Will the pro pack update have support for 3d studio max 4?

Well I just posted a reply to about 8 questions that seems to have vanished. I'll be answering 15 through 20 a bit later. Sorry I'll be unavoidably detained for a bit. I'll also adress 21 but I must comment on this part:"Do we simply "get the shaft" because we like to have an upgraded system, and therefor have to go through an insane hassle everytime we even consider an upgrade?". I understand your frustration and fear of the unknown but you haven't gone through the process yet. It took me longer to set up online banking and to order tickets from Ticketmaster.com, so please lets keep this in perspective. This will be something that we will all unfortunately come to expect when buying software. I have 4 other apps that I own that require something similar. Piracy is forcing this on everyone. It's become a hobby. We're doing this out of necessity and we're trying to make it as painless for our legitimate users as posssible. We really have thought this out and as in just about anything else, there will be extreme cases. We will have to handle those on an individual basis as they come to us. We have quite a few users that swap hardware often, including some that have very tight deadlines. We have a great customer service department and I'm confident that we can minimize any hassle on your part. **************************** Steve Yatson Product Manager Curious Labs Http://www.curiouslabs.com ****************************

::sighs:: bad enough that when I edit geometry in Poser 4 using the grouping tool, that same figure has holes in it when opened in ProPack. No offense, but you guys haven't given me any incentive whatsoever to upgrade. As far as the setup room for creating custom figures goes... enough knowledge of the structure of the cr2 file and actually reading the old Poser Manual will handle that process for you. Flash? I've got a flash plugin for 3d Studio that will convert my animations to Flash for me... Export to 3dStudio? Hell... if i'm going to animate my figures in 3DStudio MAX I may as well go all the way with them.... and actually Bone them and create my IK chains in MAX as opposed to in Poser, which would of course provide a much wider range of control over the mesh. Problem is that I like the Poser a lot, and love what I'm able to do with it, but the things you've added in the Pro Pack, while they are some exceptional features, can all be done with other software by anyone determined enough to do it. As I see it, all you've offered me is a bigger hassle and the unfortunate circumstance of no longer being able to use ANY of my old Character CR2s I really want to see you guys prosper and make money, and continue doing good for the community, but if you're going to make things such that everything done in an older version of your software becomes comepletely obselete, as well as add security features that jsut make things difficult for the end user, then why on earth would I ever want to upgrade? Does this make any marketing sense to you? It doesn't to me. The methods you've chosen have not only once again provided another challenge for the Software Pirates (they love a good challenge... it only means they'll distribute even MORE copies of the program because they're so proud of themselves for finally cracking your protection), but have increased the hassle for the end user. For the very people and community that puts food on your plate. Hell, who releases a software product that makes all the work people did it in the previous version UNUSABLE??? And since this arguement has already taken place, I'm sure a lot of people have already seen how little sense it makes to anyone but, well.... you...

If you take too long to compose your message. The message won't apply when you hit the "Post Reply" button. I think it's something like 20-30mins. Before it does that. So if you take a while to compose a message. Copy it to your clipboard. Just to be safe. Then all you have to do is go back to the thread and paste it back into a new reply and try sending it again. It's one of those odd things we have to be aware of here. ScottA

23.) How can I trust Curious Lab not to get private information from me? What toy company that as it went under tried to sell its database before Disney bought them and 'supposedly' burried the information? 24.) If I get a new hard drive, put my old hard drive as a slave and copy items over, can I copy over my protection? 25.) If the protection messes up my computer by doing weird things to the hard drive, will Curious Labs pay to fix it? 26.) Has Curious Labs done a poll of how many people would not buy Poser 5 if it had this invasive security measure in it as opposed to those who would buy it?

while i think that curious labs has a right to protect themselves this whole activation idea wont really work, an example of a workaround, while a small pain, will, if i understand the way the activation code is to be applied, work. before installing the new version of pro pack or poser or what ever, make a full FILE backup of the c drive, since the instillation is ok for 7 days before the activation code is needed it would be possible to restore the system drive from backup and have a system that never had the pro pack installed, and then start the process again. simple and fairly easy and those that you are trying to stop with the activation code will be able to do this and get your product for nothing. Priacy is a two way thing, as by some of the comments on these threads those that would always buy your products would not be happy at all with the plan and may end up getting a cracked version out of spite, priates steal software because its too expensive, company put the price of there software up because they are losing money, viscous cycle or what.

Think how inexpensive soemthing like Maya of Softimage would be if we didn't have to worry about such things, huh?

1. In the unlikely event that we should not be able to continue doing business, we would create a simple update to whatever versions are current, that would allow for the installer to run without an unlock code. Steve Cooper<<< 27. Will you legitimize and legally commit to the above by placing it on the CL website AND within the packaging of future Poser versions? No such promise is currently within your statement on the CL site.

idova, Thanks for your post, It just occured to me that a lot of people may be unclear as to why we're doing this. Our purpose is not to prevent you from running it on multiple machines, or installing it home and on your office computer. Or moving it to another computer that you own. If anything we've taken steps to allow those scenarios. Two days after we shipped the Pro Pack, we could easily locate more warez servers that were giving it away than we'd sold copies. My hope is that whoever sold or gave it to people to pirate will not be one of the first to register their serial#. If that happens they'll have to contact us with their serial# to register and we obviously will be able to match that serial number with one that's available for download on warez. We're just trying to stop the massive illegal proliferation of the product. If you paid for it then you won't have any problems. If you're planning on distributing it, or getting it from warez, then you'll be SOL. It's that simple. The product will not run without being authorized, and that serial# is required and the number of times it's used will be tracked. **************************** Steve Yatson Product Manager Curious Labs Http://www.curiouslabs.com ****************************

BTW, Steve, don't get the wrong impression from ym posts. I am a legitimate user of Poser and am ADAMANTLY against Warez... as a matter of fact, ever since finding out on these forums that the sale items that members of our community had made were being given away free, I instantly tried to hunt down these sites, in attempt to report them to the proper authorities. As a matter of fact, if you check with your colleague, Anthony Hernandez, you'll find that I regularly email him with URLs which are giving away copies of Poser. Just wanted to clear the air. I full understand your intent with the Authorization process... it's just that it's just one more pain in the @%$ for those of us who already unhappy with what the ProPack has done to our hard work.

DraX, To put this one in perspective, and I mean no ill intent, I have to pay a dollar more a gallon for milk at the Quickie Mart at the end of the street, or take the time to drive 20 minutes to the super market and then stand in line. In this case Pro Pack is the much much cheaper gallon of milk, it's easier to open and pour, and it's at the Quickie Mart. We believe we're doing the right thing in our current situation. But I respect your opinion and appreciate your feedback. There are holes in the geometry because empty obj group names are being ignored on import. We adressed that early on and did our best to make the solution know on this forum. I remember several posts from you on this and I apologize if the work around was unclear. We can start a new thread to revisit that issue if you'd like. The updater will include that fix so there's one reason to upgrade. We did have some CR2 problems that are also being addressed but can easily be fixed with a little knowledge of CR2's. tech@curiouslabs.com can help you with any issues you may have. If not, I'm available to do so.We did not purposely do anything to prevent you or anyone else from using old content and will never do so. We didn't have the resources to test as much content as we would have liked due to the fact that we were a new company. An unfortunate bug that popped up after we shipped. **************************** Steve Yatson Product Manager Curious Labs Http://www.curiouslabs.com ****************************

DraX I must be honest. Many get that impression. You often mention that you're a supporter or that you've paid for the product, yet your choice of words and the things you mention suggest otherwise. A few others from the forum have emailed me directly to let me know that they felt you were out of line and off topic at times and offering their support. It's not my place to try and figure it out and you are entitled to your opinion and to say whatever you want. Regardless of whether you bought the product or not. It's two different issues. I said that to you once before and I personally don't have any issues with what you write as long as it's on topic and done for the sake of productivity. Meaning that, in the end, it makes Poser a better product.

Great questions, thanks. 15)It may, but I'm not sure. I'd rather verify then post this one. In any event we'll try to handle more than the default 3 installs if there's a legitimate need. We're not trying to limit you, it's warez downloads we're trying to beat. 16)Registration is available by phone or fax, and even snail mail. There's a grace period in which the unregistered app will still be fully functional. 17)I think we've addressed all the serial# issues. Now, if the serial# is available for download on warez site and we find it, the serial# won't work due to the fact that we'll exclude it. 18)We only use internet access once to register and it's not required. After that there's no still need for a connection. 19)The purpose is to fix the bugs. We're calling it Service Release 1 even though it's more than just fixes(see22). We'll continue to update Poser and Pro Pack and I hope that our turn around time continues to get better and better. 20) I hope my previous comment/post on this was adequate. Let me know if not. 21) Again we'll handle those cases in a timely manner. I hate to be vague on how the protection works but please understand, I must be. We're not trying to keep you from using the product or inconvenience you. It really won't be that difficult to continue use. 22)OK I'm going to let the cat out of the bag here. You guys support us and I guess I should let you know first. It will support 2.x, 3.x, and 4. We were going to wait for the release date to announce it but..... Kupa may whip me for this one. :) 23)There will most likely be that check box that asks if you want to receive info on future versions and related products. Check it as you wish. 24)Please clarify, I'm not sure what you mean or what you'll copy 25)It won't, so it's not an issue. 26)Well, without seeing or using it I don't know how you can call it invasive but no we have not. Again we're not trying to inconvenience legit buyers but trying to stop warez downloads. It's become a necessity for us and I believe that the real threat here is fear due to lack of info. It's really transparent once registered and non invasive. 27) We will. We'll have an FAQ up on the site in the next few days. We'd planned on having it up there by the time we released to avoid most of this but it was "leaked" to the German press before we had time. Thanks again for the great questions. **************************** Steve Yatson Product Manager Curious Labs Http://www.curiouslabs.com ****************************

Steve, it wasn't my intention to come off so negative... and I do agree with your points on the new features in the Pro Pack.... why go to such great lengths to get those things if this less expensive software suite has them already? I am one of the few exceptions, as I have other software that I already invested my hard-earned money in to do it for me. If these issues have been addressed, as you say they have been, then I am certain my opinion of the product will change once the patch is released and I have heard from other users that they have been. My intention also wasn't to bad mouth you or your product... I've found it quite a useful tool in my artwork and have posted several of my figures for download here and elsewhere.... My experience in the nature of Warez comes from the standpoint of a developer, and these are issues that myself and other members of my team for a game development company (Incidentally we have been using Poser to create most of our concept art from which we make the lower-res models that will be used ingame) have gone over these issues a hundred times before, and we ourselves are torn on the balance between inconveniencing our paying customers and prevewnting the non-paying ones from using the product. It is a very shaky line. However unfortunate the situation may be, my stance at least has been that no matter how much protection we put into the product, we can never prevent software pirates from using it.... or distributing it... Our current decision was to release our product with standard serial number authentication and then a second serial check when users connect to our servers to play online (as is done with products like Diablo II). However, this would still not prevent people from playing the single player aspect, which was the focus of the game, and the point at which most of our development process would be taking place. (Actually, it is really the AI architecture that is our pride and joy, but I can't say anything about it, of course) I understand fully that Poser happens to be the pride and joy of the team there at Curious Labs, and it is a product that you have every right to be proud of. And every right to protect the investment of time and money that went into it's creation. 28.) On another note, will this new authorization process, since it will be checking against your server's database for authenticity, include an auto-update so that we can automatically download updates for Poser? That's one feature I think we'd all benefit from. If you're making the net connection through Poser anyway, then why not make full use of it? Once again, my apologies if I was a bit out of line. (And I was, just a bit, after reviewing my posts). Let's just see more great stuff come out of you guys. (And, with your assurance that the ProPack update will solve the issue of using the older cr2 files, as well as your added assurance that the authorization process, as well as your customer service, then I take it I will definately consider the upgrade money well spent... I'm also looking forward to, if possible, a fix for the ERC cross-talk issues and a method directly within Poser to create such controls)

Thanks for your comments, we're hoping that we can curb the warez downloads mostly. Will there be a crack? I hope not but of course it is possible. We think we've found a pretty good solution and we'll see how it goes. 28) Great suggestion. It won't be there for this updater but we'll see if we can do it in the future. Do you think auto checking such as Real Player or most Virus software does would be acceptable? You can always send me specifics on what you're looking for as far as features and fixes. **************************** Steve Yatson Product Manager Curious Labs Http://www.curiouslabs.com ****************************

Steve, I'd find soemthing like that totally acceptable (but the Warez people will go through hell, LOL) I think not only could this be used to better ensure the security of your software, and further ensure CL's survival, but wouldn't it be nice for you guys if you released a patch for a small area of Poser, say for example you come up with a small amount of code that adds ERC to the Setup Room or elsewhere in Poser, and you fully test it out and it works like a charm without causing any problems... People would be given the option as soon as they load up Poser as soemthing like this:

POSER UPDATER Poser Updater has detected an update for Poser available now. The Description of this update is: Version X.X.X- Enhanced Remote Control. Addition of Enhanced Remote Control to Setup Room. Premiliminary ERC "Cross-Talk" issues addressed.

• Transparent Reflections. Enhanced useage of Transparency and Reflections/Highlights. Allows users to better specify Highlights to be applied only visible areas of Texture and be ignored in fully Transparent areas
• Miscellaneous. Code stability issues addressed.

Would you like to Download this Update now or when Closing Poser?

Personally, I'd LOVE to see this, and I'm sure it would be very helpful to all users, and to the programmers.

29.) I can answer this one for you, Steve... suctioncup... CD-check protection has been proven time and time again to be one of the least failsafe methods of copy-protection available. All the hacker has to do is write an application to trick the program into thinking the CD is in the drive. Definately a poor method of Protection, and not one that will help ensure Curious Labs and Poser's survival any better then leaving absolutely no protection whatsoever.

Please take pictures of the beating and send them to me. :) or better yet DV.... Just kidding of course. **************************** Steve Yatson Product Manager Curious Labs Http://www.curiouslabs.com ****************************

Ah... gotta love the sick thoughts at 4:00 in the morning... BWAHAHAHAHAHA Even better... send a lynch mob after them all wearing masks that look like Poser Dork and Posette... they'll have to be institutionalized after such an experience.

BTW, about the Auto-Update... that would ahve to be a user's choice. If you enable auto-update, you are doing so because you are a legitimate user with nothing to fear. Just an idea. Of course, this is definately soemthing that should've been implemented with the inital release of PPP, not in an update. I'm referring to the Security measures now, not to the Update.

First, I understand the fact Curious Labs want to protect their rights, but : 1. I bought my Poser 4 some months before Metacreations'affair ( see Maci's post ). I sent several mails about my registration and there is still no way to register on the site ?! 2. Got the French version of Poser and many folders got french names ( "bibliothues" instead of "libraries" ), so I need to move files from folders to another ones in order that Poser see the files... ( think it's the same for german version too ) Off topic ?! No. Just to say that it costed me quite a month of salary when I bought it, and I'm affraid of being forced for next versions ( don't have the pro pack now )to call CL in order to have a key. So if I install it on Sunday, I got to wait until Monday while the guy who got a pirated version will run a crack or a keymaker and will be able to run it in minutes... Crashdisk... new installation ... new hard drive... new call ... new wait ... and the bad guy still win . Everybody knows this protection will be cracked, they all are... so please, don't make the life of your legal customers worse than the one of Poser thieves. And I never understood how companies can say warez copies are lost sales. I doubt all the people who got a warez copy of studio max to be potential customers for Discreet, no ?! For me, Poser was an upper-mass market product, but why choosing Lightwave or Max exports in the ProPack for this kind of product. Someone who have Max ( I'm talking about legal license ) don't need Poser to animate, or maybe just the Zygote models... He already has greater animation possibilities than the ones offered by Poser, no ?! I think people are waiting for a program which is able to render ( new render engine ), animate and pose, all in just one program... I love Poser, that's my favourite program with Photoshop ( Adobe registration is great, they send updates via mail delivery and even if Photoshop is far more pirated than Poser, they kept their serial number protection due to customers respect I think ). So, great Curious Labs people, make Poser on Floppy Disk, PCI card ( lol ) but respect me... I buy a program, and I want to be able to install, use it whenever I want :) The community changed ( everything that is saleable or not is sold ), Curious Labs changed ( witch hunt...but still waiting for Poser 5 news )... Take care of me with technological progress and artistic possibilities, I deserve it because I'm a legal customer, and I should be your priority !!! Truly yours Renault David AKA joelegecko joelegecko@wanadoo.fr ( working hard on a project, so excuse the language mistakes, I need to sleep :)

Here, here.... Good point, truly.... CL made a mistake... a big one, Yes, but a mistake... don't make the community suffer for this mistake in turn, you will end up suffering also.... Instead, count your losses, concentrate on Poser 5, and make sure that it includes a level of protection. with a guarantee that even if CL does go under we'll still be able to use it.

guys/gals, remmember what microsoft.com did before they issued XP? if they could be cracked then Poser 5 could be cracked. therefore, as it was said ...Concentrate better on the Program's qualities rather than its protection... after allI doubt the surviving of ANY file after formatting...

AMEN... concentrate on releasing a new, better product... fix the problems in the current one, and since you've already got your protection written, put it in the new product.

#30. Will the update for PPP turn Poser into Poser 5, or is Poser 5 something that we can expect later this year? If so, when and what will be included with it? //Mike

I have to echo what's been said - although warez are repulsive, increasing protection doesn't help. Firstly, it will be cracked; secondly, even if it CAN'T be cracked, you don't necessarily increase your sales very much. I've always believed it a total fallacy to suggest that anyone who accepts a pirate copy of anything would actually buy the product if the pirate copy wasn't available. Thirdly, what you DO do is piss off royally your actual legit customers. Even if the registration process is as simple as you maintain, it is very distasteful. The CL line above is "it sounds bad but really it isn't such a hassle as it seems" - that's not the point. It's what it seems that really matters. The image projected is really very bad.

I've read all messages of this thread and the others. If i had to analyze what's going on: Curious Lab will make this protection, it's stated more then one time. They find for each point a answer which states again why they want to do such a protection. NOW, WHY SHOULD WE DISCUSSE ABOUT THAT, BECAUSE IT?S EVERYTHING CLEAR: THEY WILL DO IT ANYWAY! If you find thousand points why not, they will find thousand answers for doing it. They should do it, and the future will tell if it was good for them or not. But if this happens, they have loosed one customer and that's me. At no time i will give access to my system to a company, they can promise whatever they want. And i have a good solution why, if a salesman leaves a company wouldn't he not take the adress-database with him ? And hey, the company would never realize that he had taken the database, because he had have the time on his side to do it. Goodbye PPP and Poser5, i'm happy with Poser4. What is also clear, there will be some hackers which where abble to hack this protection. Just about the fact they're really good programmers, maybee better the most of the software-programmers itself. I don't look up on this hacking-persons, i think it's not correct what they do. But they do it, whatever protection you will find. And as everybody nows, i'm a registered customer at curious lab with poser4. Can be proved with the adress below. Robert Egli Niederhasli Switzerland SHARKEY

#31 Considering this security measure will cause more problems for people who have bought the program than those who use a cracked version wont this worsen the problem with warez? In the end legitimate users pay for this protection twice, first we have to pay the extra costs these protective measures adds to the price tag of the software. Measures that consistently have never worked I might add. And then we have to pay for the inconvenience that the warez people don't even have to deal with because they have a crack for it. It would seem most everybody here has a valid complaint, and Curious Labs should consider if the measures they have chosen might not have the reverse effect of making cracked versions more attractive then legitimate ones. In the end you are punishing those of us that are legitimate users and not the people who are committing this crime. Please dont insult our intelligence by saying its not so or that the security measures you have taken are uncrackable. Find a different way to deal with the problem that is less problematic for paying users. Reward those who turn in people distributing warez. Please dont solve the security problems by handing a new set of problems to the paying user because it is convenient.

32.) If I call in via the phone to get the code, how much personal information do I have to give Curious Labs?

Uhh, so if I bought Poser 5 or whatever, I would only be allowed 3 loads or reloads from the CD-ROM from ther wrong wide of the Atlantic and then I would have to time-wastingly formally apply for permission with a lot of officialese checks on identity etc to be allowed more reloads? I can't simply go and buy another Poser on another CD-ROM, as here I hardly ever find Poser or Bryce in a software shop, I must order it and wait for it to come to me, at snail-mail speed both ways plus more delay. And, as many people have said, it wouldn't stop or even reduce the warezing for long, once the inevitable hacked version that doesn't need the code gets around the warez sites. That being so, there is no point in having the software lock, except to cause inconvenience to legitimate users.