Have tested B5 verses B4 in rendering.Took one of my B4 files rendered it it to took 55.23 min.Opened the same file in B5 it took 58.37 min so I guess Corel calls that improvements in rendering the only reason I see for network rendering is to hide the fact they did nothing to improve the rendering speeds .Sure their are some nice improvements call it cosmetic surgery in any case not worth the upgrade I'll stick to Metacreations version of B4 the Corel update was shit anyway and the rendering even slower after the 4.1 update

By the way the 4.1 version, the update is from Metacreations. Pleiades

update 4.01 was from metacreations , update 4.1 from corel. Perhaps seeing the Corel Logo through me off

I think it's because Corel functions in a different kind of logic than the rest of us. If they made cars, next years model would get 5mpg less in gas mileage and be 12% slower in the 0-60 tests. I hate Corel products, always have and probobly always will. It's too bad Metafuc%ations had to poop their pants and ruin everything that was beautiful. If you bought Carrara you'll really know what I'm talking about. Bryce 5 could have been a very great thing, and instead it's a very minor update, I guess I held my breath for nothing after all. Sure the network rendering is nice, but it's not enough to make up for a retardedly slow render engine in the first place. I don't blame anyone for getting Bryce 5, if I had enough extra money laying around I'd get it too. Then I could be disappointed along with the rest of you. kaom

Personally I think Bryce 5 ROCKS! With a ton of new features and improvements (if you'd bother to look) I consider it a major upgrade. Coldrake

God bless you coldrake. I have not been able to install the upgrade I bought but I have been scared based on all the negative commments. I have chosen to ignore all negative remarks and only think happy thoughts, I am sure my Bryce upgrade will be the answer to all my hopes and dreams. It will be a new world, I just know it, by the way, I have a new 1.1 Gig Processor and it has sep up my Bryce renders by several hundred percent, any thoughts?

Personaly I like what I see so far. It is very stable, the tree lab is easy to use an fast. Trees render fast even if there is a whole bunch in use. I have only played with it a little while but seems worth the 99 bucks to me. I guess in the end it depends on how you use bryce. Maybe we could all get together and buy Kaom vista pro or something perhaps that would keep him busy enought to stop spamming us with his vandetta.

Hey griggs, What are you saying? I'm a professional, not some kid screwing around with my software. I'm a Bryce lover like the rest of you, but I have valid points here. I've used Bryce since it came out. It's not spam and I'm not on a vandatta! I use a lot of different 3D software for different puposes ie..Bryce, Carrara, Rhino, Poser, Amapi etc........ Maybe you should use Vista pro, and not insult me. I'm not insulting anyone in here, just Corel, and I have my reasons. I'm not knocking you for buying Bryce 5, I'll probobly end up buying the upgrade myself. Sorry if I touched a raw nerve with you, but don't be insulting, have you seen any of my work? Your statement is null! kaom

I don't know take a look back 90% of your post you are flying off of the handle about something. As a professional you should understand what it is that makes 3d software work the way it does. Your post are very vandetta like I don't know what your beef is with corel but you are knocking things you haven't even seen first hand. I didn't see anything in my post that was insulting to you, and no you did not touch a nerve. From the tone of your post I would gather, that is what you have been atempting to do. Don't assume being a professional makes you better then others, each of us have our skill levels and choose to be either professional or hobbiest as we see fit. Acting more like a professional and less like a kid will gather you the respect you think you deserve.

griggs, Yes I was flying off the handle, but that's what these forums are for, it's healthy and non-violent. The only reason I added that I was a Professional was because of what you said about getting me Vista Pro, I've used it and it's kind of a joke.I don't think that I'm better than anyone in here, I see some amazing stuff in here done by complete amateurs, I think I've even seen some great stuff done by you, I could be wrong, at least I think I remember it being you. Don't get me wrong, I'm not on a high horse about my work, we all learn everyday in this business. I'm not putting you down for getting Bryce 5, I can't blame you, Bryce is a very cool program, and a new version is going to get anyones attention. Seriously, I hope you enjoy the hell out of it, I'm sure you will! But I do have a beef with Corel, I used to use Corel Draw in my work, and their support was horrible then, so I switched to Illustrator and love it and Adobe. Besides that Corel Draw was a poorly made program, you can do great things with it, but it's slightly buggy and the interface is not intuitive. Thank God Corel didn't change the interface of Bryce! Look at what Eovia did with Carrara, they took an abandoned program that users had spent nearly $400 on and did the best they could. And they are only charging $99 for the upgrade. I just think that Corel could of done more with Bryce for the price. And I have seen it firsthand, one of my clients has it, and I sat down with it for a while and wasn't impressed with what I saw, mostly the render speed. I know that the Metaball modeller will be very useful for a lot of people, and I'll see some very cool stuff done with it. And like I said I'll end up getting the upgrade soon, as soon as I build my new computer(gotta get the system while I can and prices are so low)> No hard feelings? kaom

No hard feelings here either :) I haven't been around for very long in 3d so missed a lot of what went on with meta. I purchased Bryce 4 after they sold it but before the corel patch. Looking forward to seeing some of your work. Griggs

This is how I am reading things... In my opinion I love bryce, I am just learning things as I go, I am no professional and I am not even out of high school. As I am reading this messege and the replies koam is judging Bryce 5 solely by its rendering time and nothing else... and maybe I read it wrong but does it say he doesnt even own it? >>griggs, >>Yes I was flying off the handle, but that's what these >>forums are for, it's healthy and non-violent. I thought these forums were here to get help. The only >>reason I added that I was a Professional was because of >what you said about getting me Vista Pro, I've used it and >>it's kind of a joke.I don't think that I'm better than >>anyone in here, I see some amazing stuff in here done by >>complete amateurs ...thats came across in my mind as a very arrogant statement, the only thing that seperates amatuers from professionals is that professionals make art for a living while amatuers do it for fun, being professional or amatuer is not a measure of talent. >> I think I've even seen some >>great stuff done by you, I could be wrong, at least I >>think I remember it being you. Don't get me wrong, I'm >>not on a high horse about my work, we all learn everyday >>in this business. I'm not putting you down for getting >>Bryce 5, I can't blame you, Bryce is a very cool program, >>and a new version is going to get anyones attention. ...sounds as if everyone who buys Bryce 5 is a victim of being suckered in... >>Seriously, I hope you enjoy the hell out of it, I'm sure >>you will! But I do have a beef with Corel, I used to use >>Corel Draw in my work, and their support was horrible >>then, so I switched to Illustrator and love it and Adobe. >>Besides that Corel Draw was a poorly made program, you >>can do great things with it, but it's slightly buggy and >>the interface is not intuitive. Thank God Corel didn't >>change the interface of Bryce! Look at what Eovia did >>with Carrara, they took an abandoned program that users >>had spent nearly $400 on and did the best they could. And >>they are only charging $99 for the upgrade. I just think >>that Corel could of done more with Bryce for the price. >>And I have seen it firsthand, one of my clients has it, >>and I sat down with it for a while and wasn't impressed >>with what I saw, mostly the render speed. I know that the >>Metaball modeller will be very useful for a lot of >>people, and I'll see some very cool stuff done with it. >>And like I said I'll end up getting the upgrade soon, as >>soon as I build my new computer(gotta get the system >>while I can and prices are so low)> No hard feelings? >>kaom Sorry about posting my reaction to this post in such a negative manner but I found it upsetting if not a little insulting.

JVogel How are you finding it insulting??? I'm speaking very clearly, not putting anyone down. I said that a lot of amatuers do incredible work in here. I'm not being arrogant at all. How long have you been involved in 3D? If I wanted to insult people I could do a great job of it, but that's not my intent at all. The only >>reason I added that I was a Professional was because of >what you said about getting me Vista Pro, I've used it and >>it's kind of a joke.I don't think that I'm better than >>anyone in here, I see some amazing stuff in here done by >>complete amateurs >>How is that arrogant? I'm giving credit to people who are amatuers, they do some great things with Bryce, Hell I learn a lot of cool techniques from amatuers, you're right- professional or amatuers is no measure of talent. It can indicate how long you've been at it though, and believe there are a lot of professionals who have techniques you'd never dream of. It's not an insult. And we all do learn everyday in this 3D business, I learn from everyone, and I try to share my knowledge also. Yes the forums are for help,they are also for debate, discussion, and whatever else crosses your mind pertaining to a particular piece of software. If you needed help and posted a question, I would definately do my best to help you if I had the answer, or should I say one of the answers, because there can be many different answers to a particular problem. By the way I'm not judging Bryce 5 on it's rendering speed alone! It does go much deeper as I tried to explain. I didn't point any fingers at you, or anyone. I'm not saying you've been suckered into buying it, I pointed out that I will buying it myself. Have you owned any previous versions of Bryce? Do you use any other 3D software? I'm not asking you to be insulting, I 'm just curious as to if you have any other software to judge it by. If you think this was negative, then you should of been reading the Carrara forums over the last year and a half. You read my words in my last post all wrong if you think I was being insulting to anyone but corel. A lot of us in here are software junkies and we can tend to take it pretty seriouly. You need to read my last post again because I'm not insulting you in any way. Get used to in here, this is nothing, it can get a lot worse. But enjoy Bryce 5(or does that insult you?) You will enjoy it, Bryce is a fun amazing piece of software. Why do think I included "no hard feelings?" at the end of my post? Because I mean it. There's no need to make enemies in here, I respect griggs opinions and decisions, and he realised that. Can't we all just get along?? kaom

Professional -vs- Amatuer also speaks directly to the heart of the matter... I have been using 3DSMax for about 6 years, though this has been using 3D for architectual visualization, not artistic per-se. I have been paid for this ie. -professional. not better than amatuer, but deadlines definitely trump art in my work! As such render time is VERY important! In 1995 I was retired prematurely due to Multiple Sclerosis, and bought Max from my employer. I am an amatuer as an artist and bought Bryce and Poser et. al. for a hobby, hoping one day to get paid, at that time I'll probably use Max for rendering. Unless Bryce does improves dramatically of course. Bryce creates wonderful skies to use in Max as tiled skydome materials, by the way. Bryce doesn't cost much and is worth it for that alone. But I also purchased Lightscape a couple day's ago. Once you've had true radiosity it's hard to go back! Bryce has a chance at competing with Lightscape. But if you are comparing Bryce to Max, Maya, and Lightwave. forget about it! I am sure Corel doesn't try to measure themselves and Bryce against these 3D dev/animation systems. I would have loved for Bryce 5 to support rendering enhancements similar to lightscape because I love the Bryce UI. And HATE the Lightsacpe one. Not to mention price (Lightscape cost $495.00) Bryce renders are not the best or the fastest, as a former Pro I don't plan to upgrade. ... but the aspiring artist in me probably will eventually anyway! I don't want to fan any flames here. But if there are people who read posts here hoping to make an informed buying descision. ALL opinions have some value...

I have tested Bryce 5 quite a lot during the weekend and to my dismay Bryce 5 appears to be slower in many areas: - As compared to Bryce 4 the rendering time is longer about 5% - Importing meshes is also slower by about 10%. Many meshes import with artefacts that did not exist in Bryce 4. - overall screen refresh in any mode appears to be slower - Bryce main menu (the File etc.) has a 0.5 lag time (why?) This all adds up. I also feel Corel could have made more improvements on the usability side. Ok now you can open the previously used files easier. But that's about it. What happened to menu shortcuts. Now how difficult is it to make more keyboard shortcuts or even to document them? The new rendering options are OK but honestly they make HUGE impact on rendering time. Make a hundred object scene and add four lights. That's not something out of the ordinary. But the render time is over a week with a higher end machine! Some main features like animation appear to have zero enhancements from Bryce 4. Frankly I was expecting a "wow!" but what I'm feeling is "Is that it?".

Ahh-I thought it was me. I noticed the menu lag time also. Another small thing that bugs me is when I save a file, I use the save as command, enter the filename, and hit save, it adds the br5 extension and I have to hit save again.

i been using byrce for years after reading all this i not buying the upgrade to bryce 5.0 i think i'll try vue 4

I purchased Bryce 5 this weekend and must say I am a bit dissapointed. The rendering times are longer, no doubt. Also they claim that the speed of Bryce in Mac OSX is the same as in OS9. This is a blatent lie. I rendered a scene in OS9 that took 46.14 min, I then rendered the same seen using OSX and it took 57.30 min. This is a HUGE difference, I tried this comparison with a few scenes and received similar results. I am running a G4 450DP with 768MB RAM. It is much slower in OSX. Not to mention the interface completely dissapears from time to time, forcing you to minimize then maximize the screen to get it back. I bought this update mainly for OSX comapt and Network rendering. Now the net rendering does work, but it only works on an Animation, not on a still. They also removed several of the primtives, and to make these same shapes now requires more work. (Unless they hid them somewhere, but I don't see them.) I will probably keep using 4 until a patch is released to fix some of these issues. As for the comments about Kaom being on a vandetta, or is a spammer, this is crap! I don't know kaom personally but he has been nothing but helpfull in the Carrara forum and I enjoy his insight and comments, he has helped me numerous times, including a purchase decision. I agree with him, Corel has a long way to go. And for me, a mac user, they have been pathetic. Hell even the Licence code that they sent with Bryce 5 Upgrade does not work correctly, you have to call and get a generic one from their underly friendly customer support. Don't even get me started on all the bugs in Corel Draw 8, which for Mac users is the latest version, 10 was supposed to be out by now, and you have all the reason in the world to gripe about Corel. I am really glad that they did not buy Carrara, as Eovia has done an excellent job with that!

The only reason anyone is attacking anyone else is because of the negative post. You don't post "thumbs down to corel bryce 5" and expect people not to be offended. But that aside I think Corel did a great job, the increased render time is because of the new enhancements to the renderer. And so far people have had some technical problems, ie. the password problem with upgrades and Corel responded immediately to those who emailed them. So please have some respect for Corel, this is there first full package release with Bryce. And despite everyone's opinions on Corel, personally I own Corel Draw 9, I had problem with it, crashed my system, and I emailed Corel, got a response the next day, and it took a few days to figure it out(emailing back and forth), but it ended up being a problem with another software package, all support I have received from Corel has been excellent. So I go thumbs up for Corel. And please don't critisize my opinion, I haven't yours. Thank you Nick

Thanks PAGZone, I knew I wasn't the only one who felt the way I did about Corel. Maybe Corel will address these issues with a patch that could improve things, like speed.Like you said,thank God Corel didn't get their hands on Carrara. I have to give eovia a lot of credit for doing what they did, I honestly now believe that they did the best they could, and they aren't trying to charge a fortune for the upgrade, and their even giving all the goodies along with it. I really think that they care about us Carrara users, Antoine is a stand up guy for doing what he did, and I for one thank him for giving us Carrara users a ray of hope, and hey, it works now, I don't hear too many complaints in the Carrara forum anymore. I havn't had one crash yet, and that's drastic change from the way it was 6 months ago. Take care kaom

Pagzone...network rendering does work on a still. Use the tiling option. And for anyone bemoaning Bryce render times, remember, Bryce is and will always be a pure raytracer. No hybrid renders here. Corel Photopaint is my favorite program after Bryce and just before Poser. I prefer its features, functions, interface, ease of use, over Photoshop by miles. As for Corel's updater to Bryce 4, there were some problems with their initial patch which were fixed within days. Bryce 5 has new features that people have been screaming for for ages now. As well as some interface and usability tweaks that Metacreations never bothered to fix. Basic things like honoring the task bar in Windows which should have been there all along but weren't...now they are. Render progress in the taskbar, save and open dialogs that remember their last used directories even between sessions. No more 20 pixel limit for the brush in the TE. etc. etc. As for usability, this is the best Bryce yet. Of course there's more to do but now we can be quite sure we'll get a Bryce 6. Just a year ago we didn't even know if there ever would be a Bryce 5. Spit

Nicholas86, I'm glad Corel could help you out. I'm not about to put your opinion down. I respect others opinions, I hope everything works out well with your new upgrade to Bryce! I'm not about to start putting you down, it's all a matter of mutual respect, thanks. Enjoy Bryce, it's gotta be one of the funnest programs around, I don't know how anyone could not have a good time with it. By the way, I do like the new blue and silver colors of the interface(very slick look). Peace kaom

Thank you kaom. I'm not sure if I will like the new interface..we shall see.

I am concerned to hear of the Mac OSX slowdown!?!? - thats utterly ridiculous! - the most efficent and supposedly fastest operating system ever, coupled with the best hardware/processor/system buss (ie: the G4) there has been, with a program syupposedly written for that system, and its slower????? - whats going on Corel?? - that apart from a few other features that are just about worth having, was a prime incentive for me to upgrade! - I heard it said previously by someone that OSX would bring about a 40% increase in render times in br5!? - what happened to that then?? I absolutely adore Bryce 4, despite some limitations which should have been sorted out a long time ago, and was dearly looking forward to a Bryce 5, but I must admit, when Metacreations bailed out I was daunted about its future, then there was talk of Adobe getting involved and that was exciting, but when I heard Corel had it, I did wonder whether they had the balls to do something professional with it, given that they have had nothing much else to shout about. Ah well, only time and the new batch of guinea pigs can tell us whats really wrong with it and whats worth having!

Kromekat, If you are purchasing purely for OSX compat., save your money. It is very quirky running under X. And yes it is slower, and I belive mainly because Bryce5 does not play like it should with Dual Processors and G4 optimizations. By supporting Velocity and dual processors they could have easily given a 75-100% decrease in rendering times. Oh well, I will continue to run it in OS 9. Here's hoping they get it right in Bryce 6! As for it being written for OS X, well that is a matter of debate as it is Carbonized. Basically this means that it was made comaptiable with OS X to take advantage of what X has to offer. If they really want a speed gain they may have to totally rewrite it using Cocoa, which is 100% native X. PAGZone

It's not native OSX as mentioned. I find it interesting that the big Corel bashers are Mac users. Almost like the PC users who bash Adobe. Different strokes I guess. I can't stand Adobe interfaces on the PC just as Mac folks don't like the Corel ones. It's all in how we're used to using our 'puters and nothing more. For every horror story I've heard about Corel, I've heard one about Adobe so after a while it's all just noise. Spit

Yeah that maybe true, I just perceive Corel like I do Microsoft and Windows, clumsy, unreliable and more concerned with a profit on the latest version than satisfied customers! I guess the truth in what you mentioned about Adobe/Mac and Corel/PC is that the Mac was always the professional design platform which is where the relationship with Adobe began with Photoshop/Illustrator etc. and indeed Corel may have been the PC equivalent when they started being used for the same purposes with CorelDraw etc. So yeah, its what your used to, and how long you have been using it! - not that this has anything to do with the fact that Corel didnt do as well as they might have with Bryce 5!!

I'm a PC user and I really like Adobe, I've had nothing but great experiences with Adobe software(Illustrator, Photoshop, Premiere). I guess we all have different perceptions about it. I had bad luck with Corel on PC, but some of you may of had good experiences. It can vary from user to user sometimes. kaom

Seems like everyone is still in an uproar over Bryce 5! Understandable. I know for one that I have always enjoyed Metacreations products, and I was sorry to see Bryce to to Corel (I would't have liked to see it go to anyone!) When Metacreations went down it was very hurtful to me, kind of like losing a big brother. I've used bryce since version 2 and I have seen it come A LONG WAY! As for Corel vs. Adobe, well, I've never used any corel product (I will when B5 gets here) but as far as 2d art goes I'm going to have to stay with Photoshop and Illustrator. Not to get in the heated debate over Amatures vs Pros, but the ONLY difference is one gets paid...the other does it for fun. And for goodness sake...everybody calm down a little! :) Jared

rockjockjared, Well said! kaom

It was MetaCreations that produced Bryce4, an abysmally small and cynical effort that was basically a slightly tarted up Bryce3 with a chat room stuck on the side. Bryce5 is a much bigger upgrade over Bryce4 than Bryce4 was over Bryce3. And from the sounds of it, Bryce5 actually works pretty well in its first release; not something that can be said of Bryce2 (Windows) or Bryce3 (both). I don't mind people stating their opinions if they feel Bryce5 doesn't satisfy their needs or expectations, but this foray into nostalgic fantasies about Corel being the ugly sister to MetaCreations' Cinderella is just a load of tosh. As I understand it, most of the significant 'hands-on' Bryce crew at MetaCreations are still with Bryce at Corel, and a moment's thought will provide the realisation that Corel is no more a 'corporate greed machine' than MetaCreations was. So sure, you can say that Corel "didn't do as well as they might have with Bryce5", but that's a meaningless statement in isolation. If it's meant that it would have been nice if Corel had invested a fortune and made Bryce nearly as good as Lightwave, then I couldn't agree more. As I would also agree that it would be nice if there weren't any spiders that were poisonous to humans. Both are nice dreams, but entirely unrealistic expectations. If it's meant that Bryce5 should have been better for the money, then I don't agree. Although I'd have liked to have seen the money prioritised differently (on things that interest me, personally, of course), I just don't see that the overall package could have been more than it is. I long ago came to terms with the reality that 'budget' programs can't afford the toys that the professional apps get. But those pro apps cost thousands to start with, and upgrades for them can cost over double what a full version of a program like Bryce goes for. Corel could have been cynical and put in a lot of headline grabbing whizz-bang features that were rushed and didn't work properly; but they went for a solid, conservative upgrade that has some real neat, functional toys and that improves the work flow considerably without altering things too radically. I think that shows a levelheaded, long-term commitment from the company. If you're a professional that needs more than Bryce can offer, then spend the money and get a professional application. If you want the ultimate bangs for your buck, then start climbing the steep learning curve for Blender. It's free and flaky, does most of the things that the big apps do, but is even more of a bitch to use. If what you want is a steady improvement to doing 3D the beloved Bryce way, then get Bryce5.

Well said PJF. I am avid user of Corel software for a long time. I always use CorelDraw! Graphic suite because i preferred the interface compare to Photoshop. But i don't go down on Photoshop telling it's not good because i know how good the software is and i have read by an artist that did books for CorelPress that but software have there up and down. Bryce 5 is the first version under the flag Corel and PJF said it, a lot of the staff of Metacreation is under Corel employment now. So stop bitch slap Corel about Bryce 5, First of all, there is a good chance they will do a patch to address the problems not encountered in the Beta testing (since it's always like this in software), and they will receive feedback from the users and correct the problems. I always had good service from Corel since the day of CorelDraw 5. Pleiades

In my humble opinion I say this: rendering is a key feature in any 3d program. Bryce has had a reputation being a very slow renderer. Now we have Bryce 5. Now rendering is even slower. That is not good at all. What was markedly bad has gotten worse! And when you add the the new rendering options such as soft shadows or true radiosity rendering times can easily go up by factors of 50-90. That's not 50%-90% that's fifty-to-ninety-times longer. People often post pictures which took 12 hours to render in Bryce 4. With soft shadows that can go to over a month!! And thats just one picture. I read that a sofware firm used PC's to render a scene in "Fight Club". They said that each frame took about 8 hours to render. I wonder how much it would have taken with Bryce 5. Eight months a frame? Does anyone know a true ray-trace renderer that is this bad with rendering times?

Joke...do you HAVE Bryce 5? Some people have posted that Bryce 5 rendering time on a specific Bryce 4 scene was a bit slower. Not on all scenes. In fact others have posted that Bryce 5 renders most Bryce 4 scenes slightly faster. If you add premium options it does slow the render, or you can reduce the RPP etc and speed it up...at the cost of quality. For soft shadows in Bryce 4 many used light arrays which slowed rendering times to a crawl. It's simply the nature of the beast. Other packages which claim fast speeds at ray-tracing are actually using hybrid renderers and shadow mapping..not true ray tracing...and the quality difference often shows. Spit

Does anyone have a scene that Bryce 5 renders faster than Bryce 4? Every file and new file that I've tried just renders slower with same render settings.

Joke, if Bryce renders too slow for you, and you just can't stand it, then pony up the $15,000 and get a copy of Maya. As someone who will NEVER ever be able afford something like MAYA (unless they stop unfairly withholding my winning lotto ticket), I'm damned happy with Bryce!

lets start a pool for maya... ::throws in $1.57:: when we get the 15,000 I will buy Maya and you can send me what you want rendered lol

I am currently at Stanfford University taking a special course in , among other things 3D. I have been a long time Poser and Bryce user, Amorphium was the first 3D program I got. I have fooled around with lightwave and Vue de Spre (spelling)? I have heard many, many times how a person must spend thousands of dollars on a system one does not know how to use or there stuff is junk. A kid here for the class insists on Lightwave for his first 3D program ( a cracked version). He goes on and on about how Poser and Bryce don't compare, which they don't. But what about need, and what it takes to meet that need. Do you really need a Roles Royce to drive to the quikey mart? I don't. A Pixel is a Pixel, render time is best remedied with faster processors and more RAM (not expensive software) and one must concentrate on story and the best way to hold peoples interests? Why is there not this heated debate about screenwriting and the best way to make an independant project? Have we lost sight of our reasons for doing this? Just something to think about.

Lost Johnny, I agree, I don't use any mega expensive software myself. I think some people missed my point. I'm not knocking Bryce at all, I love it,there's nothing that compares for the money. It is the artist and not the brush that paints a great painting. I was just disappointed with Bryce 5, that's all. Bryce is and always will be a great program. And to the kid in your class who insists on Lightwave. Sure it's great, but most people I know can't afford it. But it's not nearly as friendly and accessible as Bryce and poser. You don't need Lightwave to produce incredible 3D work, just tell him to come look around in here in the Bryce,Poser,Carrara,Vue D'Espirit forums, I think he will have to eat his words. kaom