So, you want my money (Tips and hints from a buyer who spends $100 a month) Now this is not intended to bash or promote any one, or group of vendors. Or to bash or promote any one or group of artists. I am well aware that money is tight (even thought I spend a great deal on poser items) I know that vendors are always looking for a new ways to get just one more sale. So for those who wonder late at night who buys poser stuff and why, and how can I can some of that. This is for you. First, a little about me, and my addiction. Im a divorced 39-year-old male, with a lot of free time and no life. I have a pretty well paying job in the computer field, and the types of poser work I do is stills and stills for stories that I write. This means that the images I do will have a lot of stuff in them and there will be a lot of them. The most stuff I have used in a poser image was 37 figures, 20 static props, and a few high res textures. I have an 80GB HDD with one thing on it, POSER. My runtime folder is 32.2 GB in size, about a third of that is compressed with the power of ProPack. As I said at the beginning I spend on average $100 a month between the major locations. Though most is bought right here at renderosity. Though sometimes I can buy up to 200 a month. I have spent, just here, this year from 01/01/03 to now, $1236. This would list me as nearly completely insane. But its my money and I could/can afford it. So, how do you get some of that? Heres what I look for and make my decisions on. Free Stuff- Do I have free stuff of yours? Is your free stuff easy to get to, how does it install, and how does it work. I look at free stuff as your portfolio, how do you do what you do, what is your style, can I use it for commercial renders (Im a published artist and one day I may luck out and sell more work and if I cannot use your free items then why should I download them). Are your free items only for what you sell? (This eludes that your support is not good since I have to rely on seeing it available instead of getting an IM or mail after the sale so I can get them.) Summary- Free stuff lets me have a taste of what you can do. If the free stuff is good, what you sell SHOULD BE a better quality and/or have more tricks it can do. (Example, BAT, who hasnt used or downloaded his stuff. So when he started selling what he sold supported all Vickies and has more morph targets.) If there is no free stuff from you the other factors below become a lot bigger. But free stuff is my biggie. Forums- Are people talking about what you sell? Are they having problems or are things great? How quickly do you respond in those forums if at all? Are you fixing the things people are having problems with? Galleries- Do you use what you sell as you advertise it, can you use it as you intend it to be used? Do you actually do work with it other than to sell it? If not then why would I? (Example- Ecstasy, TT, Daio, Syyd, all do real work with what they sell, if they believe in their work to use it why would I not?) Store- (Your golden opportunity.) Thumbnail- Does it show me what you sell, or are you doing art? If you want my money, show me what it is. Cropping a gallery image you posted shows me art, not item. Price-If I know your quality from free stuff, Ill consider paying more. But if I am seeing you for the first time in the store then I am less likely to pay a lot. Details- What can this thing of yours do, what can I use it for. Does it have moving parts, does it have morph targets built in. How many things am I getting by buying your thing? If Im getting more than one thing does that match what you are asking. (Example- 1 thing for 30 dollars versus 15 things for 30 dollars. If you think the one thing got bought, try again. However, if again, I know you from free stuff and that was cool, then maybe.) Product renders- Do they show what you sell in good detail, or in action. Again are you selling or impressing me with the artist that you are. If you are impressing me, then do that in the galleries not on the sales floor. Feed back- Who bought this and what did they think. Did they find it easy to use, are they a power user, meaning do they do complex renders with multiple figures and props. (Caution- I dont put a lot of weight here, except if I personally know the person leaving the feedback. Since I know that an item can be sold and images of it dont get posted in places I look. But I will read feedback mostly to see if it seems sincere. Purchases- Have I bought from you before, if I have and if I liked, then Im likely to buy again. Especially if I have left feedback or I use your thing right away. OR you have done a complete set of something, meaning for Vicky,Mike,Posette,Dork, (Like uniforms, or space suits, or armor.) Sorry for the monster long post and blather, but again, If you are wondering who is looking at buying poser stuff then this is something to think about. Im sure that there are people you spend more than I do. And possibly follow a similar trac, and likely there are a good number of people who spend far less and use the same guidelines. There are many reasons people buy poser stuff, many are impulse, and others are pros and semi-pros, and collectors. And for each type they have their way of buying. Im just illuminating one reason, mine. Thanks for the time and good luck! lalverson, member since 1999

What the man said! I agree with all of this, almost 100%. Also been around since forever, buy wayyyyy too much stuff, am totally addicted. One difference: I'm a family man with way too little time, I have to squeeze in a bit of poser between driving kids to summer camp, fixing our old house, shopping for new fridge, music interests, fixing summer house, relatives, own company..... arrrggghh.... but addicted just the same. In the last 4 days I have spent nearly $80. Nuts. But apart from what has already been said, I would add a specific detail: one that means a lot. And that is: Presentation. When a merchant presents a new product, the care put into the presentation means a LOT. Are the renders GOOD? Are the details about the product all there? Has the person bothered to SPELL CHECK? (Don't give me nonsense about you can't spell/are dyslexic or you're not English speaking - if so, ask somebody else to help out, simple!) Care about the details. That shows you care about the quality of the product too. Then I have more reason to trust you. Simple logic. Price does matter - a texture set for clothing these days goes for 5-6 bucks. A new V2 character I can maybe pay up to 12-13 bucks for. Hair, mmm... these's so much good free hair, and now even in DAZ PC. So keep the price down. A car, a tree, a space ship - why should I pay $40? LOL! Poses - 30 for $5, that's where we are today. Clothes - never over $10, uh-uh. It's a buyers market now, NOT a seller's market like it was several years ago when V2 was released. My wishlist is looooooong, and it sits there and waits for the products' prices to drop. Then I might hit the 'Add to cart' button. You wanna see good presentation and good prices for good stuff? Go look at Runtime DNA, go look at DAZ PC. Then reconsider what you're asking and how you look. There are some merchants here that are real pros at presentation, really know how. And many who don't have a clue. As I've said before - it's my money, convince me to spend it. I'm willing to, but it's up to you. :] Fish

Thanks in advance to those of you who respond to this... inquiring minds want to know ;). sets up another tape recorder and drags a chair into corner

Sadly, although this should all be common sense, a lot of vendors don't seem to have it. Maybe art and business don't always mix. ;) As for me, I hardly ever buy things. What I do buy will be: a) Things I can't make myself (like photorealistic character packs, complex outfits and props, utilities). b) Things I can use again and again. As a hobbyist, I'm not likely to pay even $5 for something that is so specific that it'll only be used in one picture. As Lee says, versatility! Morphs! Load 'em in! :)

I'm rather simple, I think. If I like the way it looks, I'll buy it, unless I see the price as insane. I will pay up to forty bucks for clothes, hair or a character texture (they better be nice). There is an exception: I'd pay at least fifty dollars for Koz's 2003 hair models, but as we all know, I don't have to do that. If BAT makes a V1/V2/Steph outfit, I will purchase it no matter what it looks like, simply because of all the free items he's given away. And I'd pay a lot more than he's asking. I'll do the same when ISOP starts selling. Likewise, should Yamato or Maya ever become vendors.

I thought V3 and her packs were a steal with all the Platinum Club discounts. I also like separate clothing textures, but I don't like paying more than ten bills for them. My main weakness is Pose packs. I buy the things constantly. There's nothing I love as much as slapping a couple hundred poses on a character in about fifteen minutes. I'm a pose pack addict, which is ridiculous because I could make them myself in much less time than I typically spend on a project. I'm just lazy about posing.

My one pet peeve is clothing models that are V3-only. Nine times out of ten, I'll pass on it, unless it is ridiculously inexpensive, such as when PhilC offers a new outfit. Yes, this means I have none of the V3 clothes available at DAZ. I don't mind paying more for clothes that work with all the mil girls. I know the modeler probably had to re-cut the thing and make different JP.

Stills are great but my focus is on animation. Poser has a great pool of high quality mesh models, clothes, hair, etc. With the dynamic hair and cloth features of Poser 5, I have an opportunity to do human animation far more cheaply and quickly, than with other 3d software programs with way too expensive plugins. I do succumb and buy a lot more than I should, but I feel guilty because I should be focused more on learning the ins and outs of the software packages. It is more fund to create quality stills than focusing on manuals and tutorials. I am more likely than most to spend on utilities, plugins, and tutorials.

Sorry I don't buy stuff just because someone has given away free items that can only be used for personal projects. Bat has done some great free stuff but it since can't be used for commercial projects I don't even own most of the free stuff. Did buy one item because I liked the way it looks. I would hate to see a trend on the freestuff loyalty thing get started. I won't pay high dollars for anything unless it is well worth the money. And I second the idea of show me what it is in plain poser light so I can see exactly what it looks like, not a pretty post-worked render. I also spend a lot of money here and at other stores, figured out I could have walked out with my motorcycle for what I spent last year, minus the faring. But I am slowing down, as I see a lot of stuff in the store that I wouldn't bother downloading from the freestuff area. Not slamming any merchants, just saying that there are a lot of things coming in that look like they were thrown together in a hurry to get on the selling bandwagon for a new product. Marque

I provide freestuff for comm and noncomm use. If I can't supply something for comm use I won't make it, even if its a freebie. (I haven't gone into vending yet... I may however, I've had reservations but the call to offer items of my creation to the marketplace has been stronger as of late lol) That being said, I don't want my freebie work stolen and someone else's name put on it as being their work. But I think in cases like this... when you sell stuff you could have had for free... people get a really ugly opinion of that person and their name becomes total trash very quickly. I often look at a vendor's freestuff to get an idea of what they can do. If I see something in the store that's interesting, I look to their free area and see what they have done. If they have done NOTHING, no freestuff, no gallery... I will not buy the item right away, no matter how good it looks. (it could be warez) I'm a poser addict much like Lee is... I spend quite a bit on Poser items. I think he pretty well covered it there!

There are some good points so far. However, if the person doesn't frequent forums, I don't think that should count against them. There are also some people that offer free stuff at another web-site and not on Renderosity. It is tricky indeed. If an item is $10 or below, well represented at whichever marketplace it is, and I think I may use it, I tend to buy it. If it's over $10 and I 'want' it, I'll Wishlist it for awhile, go away, return and see how I still feel about it. In some cases I wait... and wait.. and only buy the more expensive items when they go on sale. But I really have to see details on these items in the Marketplace renders. I need to know exactly what I'm getting.

When I use a free item commercially the original artist gets the credit for the item, not me. There are folks out there who steal everything, free or market items, just putting not for commercial use doesn't stop that from happening. This is why, unless I have contacted the original creator and gotten permission in advance, I will normally not bother downloading not for commercial use items. And if I find that an item I have bought has a readme in it that states you can't use it commercially and that readme isn't available unless you buy the item, I will request a refund. There are lots of folks out there who just do renders for their own personal use, or just because they like doing the art whether or not they ever show it off, but some of us don't have the time to model or texture, we just want to get a job done as fast as possible and that's one reason the market for poser items has grown. If you want to sell it, make it's usage clear, through undoctored pics and a clear explanation of what is with the product. Remember Usagi? (hope that's the right spelling). I bought the original morph but declined to buy the rest because what was with each package was really unclear and I had no idea what I would actually be getting for my money. lalverson is right, if you don't know how to set up your ad or you english isn't your primary language get someone to help you, there are lots of folks here who would be willing. I would find someone who really knows their stuff and offer them a copy of the model as payment for doing the ad. Marque

Attached Link: http://market.renderosity.com/softgood.ez?ViewSoftgood=21188

Attached Link: http://market.renderosity.com/softgood.ez?Who=geoegress

I agree with most of lalverson's comments. Not sure about the Freestuff part. I broker through DAZ and have 50 items on 3d commune's Freestuff, though I'm probably not typical in that. Nor do I use my products for renders, since I don't do poser art. I have nothing against what I make. I just prefer to keep making more instead of rendering. I'd add one requirement. Whenever possible, I think the readme or Help File should be available BEFORE you buy. I know it's not always possible to do this, but I think it's a big help to buying when you know what you're going to get before you shell out the dough. mac

Let's see. I'd like to add my two cents in here. What I consider when buying:

1. Presentation and postwork in the preview pics. Please note how much postwork you've done. With no note, I don't know if you've postworked out some fundamental flaw, and that makes me goosey. Just a note saying "no postwork except for hair and compositing" does wonders.
2. Lots of feedback or feedback from people who I'm familiar with and respect. Not something you can actually control, but it is something I peek at if I'm borderline. If the item has been up for a while and there's no feedback, I get suspicious. All feedback has to be approved by the vendor before it's displayed, and realistically, no one's going to approve negative feedback.
3. Camera focal length and lighting. For heaven's sake, change the focal length away from the default Poser fisheye thing. As I see it, if someone doesn't know enough about Poser to do that, they don't know enough to have anything I can use. Lighting is similar, to a lesser extent. Here I understand having one promo pic under default lighting, but put most of them under something complementary. There's tons of nice lighting sets for free over at RDNA to chose from if nothing else. And if you're selling textures, WHITE light. WHITE. It's the only way to accurately show the texture.
4. Unique models: Don't bother reinventing the wheel unless you can add something new to it. It's a waste of your time. I mean, really, how many bras does Vicky need? The woman has more lingerie than I do. Do something new and different, and I'm more likely to buy.
5. Versatile models: Particularly if it isn't something unique, make it versatile. Lots of morphs, multiple material zones, easily changed, easily textured for different scenarios.
6. Good texture mapping: Because I do a lot of my own textures, I actually have bought models based on this. It needs to be nicely unwrapped, minimal seamlines, if it's clothing the seamlines should coincide with where seams would be IRL, minimal white space. If I get so frustrated that I have to remap it myself, I'm not going to be a repeat customer.
7. Detailed but not busy clothing textures. Don't just floodfill with a pattern and call it good. I can do that myself. Match seamlines, scale where you need to. Add details. Show this stuff off. It takes time to do.
8. Experience with the vendor. I'm more likely to buy from someone if I've talked with them in the forums or I'm familiar with and fond of their galleries. If you've got tutorials up (shows you know what you're doing), freebies up that are good quality. You'll increase your sales if you pay attention to and get to know your customers. This is particularly important if you're fairly new. With all the scandals that have happened recently, I really need to know you from Adam to feel comfortable with a purchase.
9. Good customer service. I'm a pretty low maintainence customer. If there's a minor problem I'm more likely to just fix it myself than wait for a response. If I can't fix it, I'll send off a polite e-mail. I don't expect an immediate response (some vendors have scared me by answering in the hour. Yow! Guys, 2 am! Get some sleep!), but try to get back to me in the next few days. Be friendly, and be prepared to help with ID10T errors as well. I don't hesitate to buy from vendors with great customer service, and I direct others to them as well.
10. Don't be afraid to give out refunds. Some vendors have gotten very high on my trust list because they were so willing to give out refunds and generally make things right if there was a problem with their package. For instance, one person had accidentally included a couple of poses that weren't theirs. Even though I wasn't a customer, I was VERY impressed when this came to light and she publically asked all of her customers to delete those two poses, gave all of them a full refund, and told them that the rest of the items in the package were still theirs to do with as they pleased. That was way above the call of duty, and I'm very comfortable doing business with merchants like that.
11. Love of the work. The simple fact is, you can't really make this stuff solely to make money off of it. With the market and prices as they are, if you do then your quality will suffer for it. If you make an item because you wanted to make it, and you might as well sell it as well, then it'll come out better for it and it will show.

True Mac, but the free stuff you make getts used alot, not just by me, but others and that takes care of you using it yourself, If I see a free thing used or used alot, I know that it can't be all that hard on poser and easy to use. geoegress- Correct, and I follow those links. The key is not that all I want is free stuff. But rather with free stuff I can touch and use what is made by that vendor. I'm sure you'd agree that modlers set things up different, some are easy to use. and others are more difficult only because that modler did their thing in a different way. Marque- Yep I to do the same, and like you I'll mail a modler and ask if I coud use it for this thing or that, it is as you elude to a good solid simple courtesy to do. Caly- Not being in the formus, I don't hold against someone. I look here because things that don't work get written about here. and as a buyer, I'm a fool not to look around and get all relivant info i can about something I'm looking at to buy. tclarke2- marque nailed it dead. I'm sure your items are nice, but your product shot isn't telling me why of all the other items like yours that are out there I should buy from you. You seem to be showing me art, it's nice, but I'm not in the market for a print.

My biggest gripe is pose paks that don't show ALL the poses. Most of the time I am looking for a specific pose when I search the store. Is this too much to expect?!

My pet peeve about pose packs... except for maybe some of the joint controlled morphs, or morphs that fix bad bends, please please please, for pete's sake, don't save the morph targets in the pose. Nothing ticks me off more than applying a pose that changes what my character looks like, and then having Poser's flakey "Undo" not work to get back to where I started.

I do like the free stuf but not in the way most of you do. I look to see if something I am about to buy has add-ins in the free area. Kinda like Transpond (sp?) does at Runtime DNA. There is nothing like getting something for $10-$30 dollars and there is an add-in or two for it.

I mean, I would pay a LOT of cash for something like this. And I spend between $50-$300/week every week. Just look at my paypal account and my Master Card. :) We had to give my Master Card CPR one night after I was done with it, but that was a $500 night.

The more bells and whistles put into it without it being character specific the more likely I am to buy it. Like the 1967 Mustang GT 500 by Daz. I got this because I was born in 1967 and EVERYTHING and I mean EVERYTHING workes on it. Because of this I have baught a few mor cars (and I am "NO" car person) from Daz. In fact I do a LOT of business with Daz because of that one sale.

GODS! I could go on all night. In short. The biggest % of dealers do a great job. I like browsing new stuff on all the sites every day. However I think my favorite thing I have EVER gotten was Elf lamps over in the free area at Runtime DNA. I have made images with them that I have never even posted and they are GREAT!

Ok, one last thing then I am done. RDNA (yes I buy there a LOT!!) got me to buy Fireflies (the bugs) beacuse they had a firefly jar like I had as a small chld in the free area that "could" be used with the bugs. "THAT" was a GREAT marketing ploy. I doubt they had targeting a mom who likes the OLD days in deep woods Arkansas in mind but they brought out a flood of fuzzy emotions and I opened my purse. :)

OK! OK! OK!!!
Enough of the crazy mom.

Gel

Thanks, Lalverson. I never hoped for a better thread. I guess I'm a big purchaser. Well into the 4 digits this year. I undertstand that a lot of what I purchaced was underpriced for what the modelers went through to make it versus what they received for it in this market. But a few things that have slowed my buying lately... If you are selling morphs, We should not see scars from overdialing. If it's poses, then center them on their axis (hip and body) first. Have some friends critic their realism. If it's faces or Expression, is there in an inject remove? Have you tested in all Posers? Do the PNGs install? I have over 50 shrugs to sort out still in these 2 sections alone. If it's clothing, study the masters; Wusamah for the detailing and Plilc for detailing and morphfitting (.230 thighwide on your fig. .230 thighwide on clothing= perfect fit. Brilliant) Are their dialfixes for the problem areas like the backs of the shoulders there? Let us know what the clothing can fit beyond default. Many do this already. Too much to list here...but why reinvent the wheel? For textures, we need the resolution. Large or small. Seams are a thing of the past. Watch the back collar area- can it handle the stretch? A down angle photo of this area would perfect a lot of skins that I have. Again, study the masters. V3hi is still #1. There's something in the pixel blur that makes it work. And please, more flaws. For props, this is really tough. I have some "dubious" ones I bought that render beautifully and expensive ones that are too frustrating to use. Be honest about the power you used in rendering them. I hope this is of some use.

Fabulous and great points folks and I always try to get this things done by myslef. Customer support is very importend and if the happy with your products that keeps you going :) Thanks to all :) Jurgen

I posted on the Product Showcase thread already - To repeat, my main focus when buying something (besides "pretty, I wants it") is "can I use it more then once." Being on a tight budget, I'm less willing to shell out money for something i won't use very often. Also, I'm super impressed with the people at RDNA who support their work with lots of freebies and real deal add ons - I bought MicroCosms there recently and have pretty much tripled the original package for next to nothing - and i find uses for it all the time. Also, I know there is a lot of time and effort into creating - it's the reason I don't do it myself, It's NOT easy. However, I think some of the prices push the high end at times - Once it rolls over the $20 mark it better slice and dice as well as render. Money is tight these days. Rob

A couple of other points here are interesting in a quirky way. Several people have mentioned that Freestuff add-ons act as an incentive to buy. I know everyone has a different opinion, but I've seen lots of complaints in the past about Freestuff items that require you to purchase something in order to be able to use them. ??? Oh well, you can't please all of the people all of the time.... The other point is rendering power/usability. This is a very under-rated factor, and one that I've just been testing in my current project. I was saving .pz3 files of various combinations of rooms, walls, doors and windows, (all with textures), to see what was what. An average setup with 2 rooms and 4 doors/windows comes out at around 3Mb, which isn't bad. I made a point of keeping the poly count down as much as possible when I built the stuff, since this is the kind of package where people will add a lot of figures, so I'm happy that it works. I also found that with up to 20 figures, Poser is still faster than with 1 vicki 3. LOL. The problem is, how do I explain that to people? How do you objectively rate and demonstrate that kind of thing? I have no idea. If anyone has a suggestion, I'm listening. mac

When you are deciding on buying something and the price is below a certain amount, you don't think about it as much, especially since you don't cough up the actual money. When you add it up over time, it can mean a lot of money that you might have better spent on a larger ticket item.

Agree with all the above! Great Thread Lee! Me, i'm partial to clothes. I can model almost anything myself. Except clothes. Indeed, seeing a product with only 1 pic will have me hit the "next" button. Maclean: Why not show 2 "smaller renders": one with 20 V2, one with 1 V3, then add the render times. This should be enough for folks to understand... Oh! I will sometimes buy items just out of curiousity. It could be to see how it was done(I Love taking things apart) or simply cause it's totaly original work. What can i say, i'm Canadian! :-) Marco

I have to add that some real genius is starting to hit the market lately. Just look at the render quality in the galleries. Some first time posters are wickedly good all thanks to the quality level of product being supplied here. The props, the backgrounds, the lightsets and effects, the tutorials... all there to make it easier. it boggles. It seems like we're a few bugs away from a seamless flow of power from the producers- to market- to buyer- to art. Good luck and keep pushing it out and beyond.

From a vendor's perspective, I just thought I'd add the the reverse is also true. Leaving Product Feedback is a great way to show when you're happy/satisfied with something you bought. If it helped convince you to purchase the item, then it may help others looking at that same item (and yes, I'm guilty of not doing this enough myself). Negative feedback is also (usually more) usefull. The vender does have an option of displaying it or not, but either way you get a chance to speak your peace and possibly improve future products. If you have more specific and/or personal suggestions, questions or comments, I can't speak for every vendor, but I'm always open to them - send me an IM or an e-mail. Did the UV mapping suck on my last product? I won't know you feel that way unless you tell me (you can try to be more tactful than that, but I can take it ;). Did I leave out some important information on my product ad? Ask me - I'll probably update the page with that information. Just try to keep in mind that people have differeing priorities and vendors are (for the most part) real people too.

One of the things I look for anymore is a character able to wear ANY of the clothes I bought or can the clothes I am looking at fit any of my models. To many times I have bought a character package only to find none of the clothes fit so I have to tweak the body which then makes it NOT the character I bought. OR an outfit will only fit the standard Vicki. Please add some morphs to the clothing package or make sure there is something they can wear. Not everyone owns the Tailor and some of us who do still can't get it to work. LOL

my problem is I have loads of props to offer, but don't have any money to have them 'hosted'. commercial/shamercial..I don't have a problem with that, and couldn't charge for them even if I wanted to. If I ever find a way to post them, the readme's will have the prop name, what it does, what it is, who I am (lotsa folks forget that, and 6 months later when you want to use it, whom do you credit?..think 'bout that..;) don't even have to give me credit, all I ask is folks don't claim them as their own.
on a related topic..I've heard tales of folks hosting up to about 2 meg here at 'rosity..how does one go about that?

Attached Link: http://www.poserosity.com/

Hello, I am a merchant here, and I don't usually post, but here's a couple of thoughts you might toss around. 1) I have had enough negative responses about freestuff, that I will be reluctant about posting more. More and more merchants are starting to feel the same. I have found it better to "give" away add-ons or freebies to previous customers. 2) price versus value. There has been a lot of hype about discounted prices. One thing you might note, is that many times this is a price increase. Example: a merchant sells a clothing pak of 7 items for $10, and sales are disappointing. So this same merchant splits off 1 item for $2.50 or groups of two for $5, they sell like hotcakes. Yes the price is lower, but the cost per item is higher. Myself, I would rather pay $10 or more for a real comprehensive group, even if there are some that I will seldom if ever use. 3) Quality versus Quantity. "30 poses for $5" yeah, but whose poses? Are they really worth it? It is a time consuming process creating poses (for example) I have been working on one for over a month. This one is actually harder, because it is for more than one person. Question: Does this pose set center the figure about 0,0, so that it doesn't place your figure off in the back 40? Is each joint correctly posed? i.e. make that joint look unnatural, wrists do not twist, and elbows do not move sideways, (try your own joints) Sometimes more is less, and less is more. I have many many textures, and quite frankly most of them I don't use, because quality is worth it. The point about morphs is well taken! That is why I use a default Vicki and/or Mike to work up the base pose and save it. But, I don't stop there, I come back and "try it out" just as you would from scratch. lalverson makes very good points, I have known him for quite a while around here. I respect him and like him. But, I just thought that these were some of his best points, and I thought I might add some food for thought. NOTE: the thumbnails, I am horrible at. It seems my focus is on the creating part, I find that I just can't get into thumbnails!

Not to get off-topic... {Quality versus Quantity. "30 poses for $5" yeah, but whose poses? Are they really worth it? } Um, no, not really. With the exception of a few pose-masters, most of the "discount poses" have problems. For example, some poses may include the moprh channels and change the shape of your character or they may have facial settings that change the expressions or the hip zTrans and xTrans settings may be off to one side. These aren't things that would cause it to fail testing, but they are annoying. One point that hasn't been brought up: what about the restrictive-ness of the product? People laugh at the prices that TurboSquid charges, but let's face it: those models are 100% yours... you can purchase the products and use it in any renders (commercial, non-commerical, public, private, whatever). Too many of the items here have their own set of restrictions: "You may only use this product on every-other-Thursday and only when I give you permission. Any render with this product must include a posting of copy of the receipt of when you purchased the product so I know you aren't using a warez copy. All renders must include a link back to my store so everyone in the world will know you bought MY product. No, the render isn't about your artwork, it's about how you show off MY product." Okay, maybe that's a bit much, but you get the point: why spend money on a product that has so many restrictions? And let's not forget the highly-restrictive EULA for DAZ's Anna-Marie Goddard character. Come to think of it, I haven't seen any renders of that character since it came out. I wonder why...

JohnRender, Every product purchased here comes included with a copy of the Renderosity Liscense, which states among other things... "The Artist (Author) retains all copyrights to the enclosed materials. The Buyer is not purchasing the contents, only the right to use the contents." ... "Buyer acquires the copyright to any derivative works created using this work, provided none of the original materials can be extracted from the derivative work by any means." ... "To protect the Buyer: Buyer is hereby granted a non-exclusive, non-transferable license to use all of the contents of the encapsulating archive file" ... "Buyer may use the materials in any personal projects or commercial projects, as long as the Artist 's work is protected from extraction and none of the items above have been violated." I haven't read TurboSquid's liscense (recently, at least), but I bet it's pretty much exactly the same. - Keith

actually, I've seen quite a few renders of AMG. But they didn't SAY they were AMG. g

For me cash is never an issue, I'm with Lalverson, good job, no life :) I have my favoured vendors like Billy-T and Blackhearted who make consistenly good stuff, but for the rest I check the marketplace, etc. If the thumb looks good I click on it, and on the three links following, if there aren't three I get suspicious. There are times when I buy because of just one image, (sometimes a cute butt is a cute butt :) The product showcase is good to check the upcomming stuff too. But yeah, giving me a straight render is far better than a postworked epic. later jb

"For example, some poses may include the moprh channels and change the shape of your character or they may have facial settings that change the expressions or the hip zTrans and xTrans settings may be off to one side. These aren't things that would cause it to fail testing, but they are annoying." Well spoken...I get annoyed as hell at free poses that do such things....If I payed for it I'd really be up in arms. That's just shoddy workmanship. I would never even consider buying from a merchant who hasn't given me a few free items to play with first.

I don't really care much if the vendor has free stuff or not. But I do try to avoid vendors whose freestuff is non-commercial only. I see their reasoning, but I don't have to agree with it.

the only reason I look for freestuff is what I said before, I want an idea of what this person CAN do... if the freestuff is shoddy, its not boding well for the rest. I try to avoid most non-com freestuff as a general rule, not just vendors, ANYone. :) But I will download a non-com freestuff if I'm looking for what this vendor has done previously. I can always delete it after looking at it.

"Has the person bothered to SPELL CHECK? (Don't give me nonsense about you can't spell/are dyslexic or you're not English speaking - if so, ask somebody else to help out, simple!)"Fishnose OH for cryin out loud, if that was the case dont buy any of Billy T's stuff. Who gives a rats arse about spelling and grammar, its a Poser item not a novel.

There are some charming misspellings around from non-English speaking vendors. I have no problem with that. But honestly, sloppy writing makes you wonder about sloppy work. It shouldn't be dismissed so cavalierly.

I dunno... I'm pretty anal about stuff I make/model, but my spellin' is dredful. ;) So I tend not to hold that against others. I try to remember to spell-check my ad text, but I'm not sure that I always remember.

The thing is spelling is, remember, the vender is supposed to be a professional. One or two typos aren't a big deal, it happens. But if the entire blurb has ee cummings syndrome, forget it. Presentation is important. We all know the importance of first impressions. It only takes a minute to run spell check.

Biggest thing for me is how quick the store images load, if it takes more than a minute (and a lot do!) I'm outta there. Also the file size of the item,25 megs of the same tex run thru hue and sat a few times is a waste of my time and drive space.We need to remember that a lot of people arent on cable connections and with out d/l accelerators anything over 20 meg is risky.Burn to cd and post? will be a cold day in hell when I pay close to $50 in my currency to have a 50cent CD burnt and wait 3 to 4 weeks for delivery. Just remember we arent all in the same boat,

You have some very good points Lalverson.. but I do disagree on the freestuff. Some of us (including myself) have built up a reputation by free sites in the past who offered bundles, prior to bandwidth turning into the big issue! One of the major reasons I can't offer free-stuff myself in Rosity Freestuff pages or my site would go down or my pocket full of holes! ;( Unfortunately not all of us enjoy the income or luxury of being an American citizen, so we do what we can within our own nationality means! :) Bottom line.. it's not as easy as you describe it.. there are lots more options to be considered, and concerining artists who've been around for years and years, most new poser uses are not a tiny bit familiar with their background OR their offerings of the past to the community! Just my two cents! :) Rena