Go for the throat ben, unleash the beast LOL!

Lol, low hanging fruit, swaying in the wind that's all ;)

Sooner or later it's going to hit the ground.

I love it !!!

What a sad bunch of sniveling whiners you all are!

Believe it or not, DAZ doesn't owe you full backwards compatibility of all new products forever. You bitch because there's no new V4 killer on the horizon, then you bitch some more if a possible contender appears because it means you'll have to buy better stuff to go with a better figure. DAZ is apparently trying to raise the quality of 3D figures and of 3D figure artwork as a whole. Going by the quality of most promo images in their store these days, I would say they are succeeding. Poser's development has scarcely budged in decades, but you bitch that it's DAZ's fault that many of the best vendors appear to be jumping ship in their direction, and somehow this makes them the evil enemy because they are leaving you behind stuck in, what, 2005 with V4?

I think V7 looks amazing in those promo renders, she has the prettiest face I've ever seen on a stock figure and she seems to morph into quite believable expressions. I wish her a long and happy life, but if V8 improves on her one day, that's ok too.

*Spokesman paid actor working for Daz. lol. Actually no one cares that you think people whine. Nor your opinion about how beautiful you think V7 looks. If you want one product that works with only one program you're welcome to spend your money into that economic nightmare for as long as you can support it. If you want reasonable prices competition and some format co-operation are necessary. Otherwise, get ready for software that costs several thousand dollars with figures that cost a grand. People were "whining" because they'd like to play with the shiny toys too. Being stuck to one program (made by the company that controls that content) is to suck on lemons all day. Other CG program software users simply advise learn to make your own figures from scratch. It could easily get pushed to that if the market swings too much one way or the other.

What thousands of dollars, DS is free, Genesis 3 Female is free?

Victoria 7 is compatible with way more software apps than any Poser native figures?

Yeah you're right it would be good to see SM collaborate and update Poser to support industry standard formats so its users are not being excluded from modern figures...

Thousands of dollars is that DS is currently free. It was a paid product and could easily become one again. Pro version versus Free version. If Daz owned all of the market they would make D/S and their free products whatever price they thought they could get away with.... it is business and they are in it for the money. Not meaning to troll here... I keep thinking of "try this first one... it's free"

Well, while possible it's highly unlikely, it would be akin to Apple deciding to sell Itunes for $50 or even $500 after all they dominate that market.

Doing that would only serve to threaten the established business model and not really make a great deal of commercial sense.

Also there is no reason to see a large hike in general product prices either, it would just open the door for competition.

Daz3D still competes with the other marketplaces that sell products for use with Daz Studio.

If Smith Micro decided to kill Poser and leave the 3d market Daz could raise prices as they would be the main provider for pre-created human models as well as the software. Price wise Daz has increased prices with each iteration of Genesis. Not quite doubling in price, but every version is higher. True more work goes into developing but Genesis big selling point was that it had great morphing capability. Each pre-created morph package and bundle was a separate item cost. I noticed on the new V7 there's a base set of bundles for the body morphs, head morphs, and new bundle for expression morphs. Which if you want her to use all of her morphs, that's added $13 (current sale price) more just for the expressions. Previous Genesis base figures had only head and body morphs.  It would be interesting to see a cost growth chart even if it just started from the Genesis line. Full price items now at Daz almost always start at $19 price points. Environments (when on sale) at $25 to $30.

Lol, low hanging fruit, swaying in the wind that's all ;)

Sooner or later it's going to hit the ground.

I prefer to keep mine in my trousers rather that swinging it about. But each to their own. How sad. As you have missed the point completely my flaming friend I will leave you to your specious argument of inestimable irrelevance.

I will not stoop to your level blaming everybody else for your inability to follow a simple line of reasoning, and a basic incomprehension of a rational line of thought.

You are clearly a genius of rare distinction with an ability to firmly grasp the wrong end of a stick and thrust it firmly into a smoking pile of rare facetious twaddle that you willingly regurgitate fluently. You are unfortunately not worth the effort of discourse as you would only take a counter argument for the sake of petty enjoyment. Rather than stretch your mind with rational thought.

Your arrogant shouting at anybody or anything that you take a fancy to shouting at is undermined by the basic fact you don't comprehend the debate. Clearly your argument that "others insulted me first in the poser forum so I am going to do the same with anyone here" is quite sad. Think about your attitude my young friend. You do yourself a disservice. I hope one day you turn your mind to creative endeavours. I now understand why you may not want content for Victoria the base model and the free program is enough.

What a sad bunch of sniveling whiners you all are!

Believe it or not, DAZ doesn't owe you full backwards compatibility of all new products forever. You bitch because there's no new V4 killer on the horizon, then you bitch some more if a possible contender appears because it means you'll have to buy better stuff to go with a better figure. DAZ is apparently trying to raise the quality of 3D figures and of 3D figure artwork as a whole. Going by the quality of most promo images in their store these days, I would say they are succeeding. Poser's development has scarcely budged in decades, but you bitch that it's DAZ's fault that many of the best vendors appear to be jumping ship in their direction, and somehow this makes them the evil enemy because they are leaving you behind stuck in, what, 2005 with V4?

I think V7 looks amazing in those promo renders, she has the prettiest face I've ever seen on a stock figure and she seems to morph into quite believable expressions. I wish her a long and happy life, but if V8 improves on her one day, that's ok too.

*Spokesman paid actor working for Daz. lol. Actually no one cares that you think people whine. Nor your opinion about how beautiful you think V7 looks. If you want one product that works with only one program you're welcome to spend your money into that economic nightmare for as long as you can support it. If you want reasonable prices competition and some format co-operation are necessary. Otherwise, get ready for software that costs several thousand dollars with figures that cost a grand. People were "whining" because they'd like to play with the shiny toys too. Being stuck to one program (made by the company that controls that content) is to suck on lemons all day. Other CG program software users simply advise learn to make your own figures from scratch. It could easily get pushed to that if the market swings too much one way or the other.

You know a Poser user said that right? And this person hit the nail right on the head. 

M3D: They sold out by giving Poser users the middle finger in exchange for the big industry applications.  Daz has always catered to the hobbyist crowd.  Now they are ditching the hobbyist crowd for the industrial standard/big business crowd, which is also their reason for abandoning Genesis 2 on the second anniversary of its release.

Their not ditching anyone, they have just stopped doing SM's work for them.

••••••••••

"DAZ troublemakers" hey? why not just trouble makers? Seems slightly loaded way of putting it.

Razor was working overtime with the responses. DAZ has spent the last few years bending over backwards trying to get Poser users the Genesis tech when SM did nothing but open up a plugin api using uncompiled python to handle plugins. To do an importer that did most of genesis functionality was a huge investment of time... ...but they gave SM the middle finger. That statement made absolutely no sense.  Especially when you figure out that SM is trying to crawl in bed with hive wire instead of DAZ after the work they done. Or DAZ can't reach anyone at SM because their contacts no longer work there. Who's trying and who is not? When that work still didn't justify the expense, that's why Poser support was ended. To say that DAZ gave Poser users the middle finger is misinformed at best. If your services are not wanted, what business will still keep providing them? Who would provide services to customers that have been openly hostile to them, and don't buy their products? Middle finger? Wow.

Guys, don't feed him.  Seriously.

Smith Micro (and esp. Content Paradise) are a huge mess.  To place the blame squarely on SM for Poser's current situation is to commit the casual reductionist fallacy.  So far I have identified the following potential contributors:

--Genesis and Genesis 2 do not run natively in Poser

--V4 support is being dropped in exchange for G2F support on both DAZ and Rendo

--I'm not going to open the can of worms over who is at fault or to what ratio for the lack of Genesis 1 & 2 native support in Poser, I'm just going to throw this factor out here.

--Dawn and Dusk simply could not compete with Genesis 2-- the official Dawn and Dusk morph add-on packs don't even look very realistic to me. Separate Poser and Daz figures is also a major dealbreaker, along with the limited product library of Hivewire3D (unless you want Lisa's Botanicals or Ken Gilliand's birds, there isn't a whole lot over there in regards to independent figures and props)

--One thing that cannot be disputed is that Dawn-only products tend to have a rather shot shelf-life in the marketplace before being tossed into the clearance bin (how long was it before Dawn's Glam Ponytail the free hair that comes with Dawn textures got tossed into the bin? 6, 8 months after release on Rendo?).  Compare this to items that are compatible with V4 and/or G2; many are still alive and kicking.

--Roxie and Rex are Poser-only and enjoy extremely limited support on Content Paradise, of all places.  What is available is predominantly low-quality, with Smith Micro's Business Essentials being the worst (and as usual, we see the typical Content Paradise-Brand abysmally unnatural poses)  SM's products for Miki 3/4 have far better previews, but the clothing still looks like skintight spandex.

--Oh, BTW...  for at least the past two months (probably much longer) the "Corporate" and "Support" links at the bottom of the page are broken, and have been broken for around 2 months, now.  THE SUPPORT PAGE LINK IS BROKEN!!!  (IIRC you can find those pages if you Google long enough)  The "Corporate" one is necessary to reach the page about becoming a vendor as well to sign up to become a vendor (IIRC)   No wonder SM sells Poser through so many 3rd parties!

Okay DalekSurpreme, glad you got those forum issues worked out, the black text was rather hard to read.

I see you're back to yell at me some more, well welcome back :)

Rather verbose response if not a little to leggy, I hope you didn't sprain anything squeezing that one out.

I didn't insult you. You made an observatory argument, I made counter arguments. You didn't like my counter arguments so you ran the discussion down to a circular downward spiralling disputation. It's okay I don't mind it's pretty much the cycle around these parts. Seems hard for lots of folks to break that habit. You started referencing Hitler in your post I called you out on being hysterical. The context didn't appear to be alluding to a humorous remark to me.

Don't mistake confidence for arrogance, I'm confident with the points I have raised because I have followed them up and researched them. Frankly I'm not really sure why you are targeting me. I'm just stating points in regards to the subject at hand, Victoria 7. If you feel it's too expensive or not for you. Thats okay. You know what you want or need and also what you don't.

It's as simple as this, you think DAZ3D is predatory and actively engaged in monopolising the sector, I disagree and have raised arguments to prove my points. You no longer want to talk about the points or the discussion but it seems your content to go just on poking the bear.

It's incredible that some people on the forums, and it is always the same few people, don't even want to believe in the statistics.

"bury one's head in the sand, to avoid reality; ignore the facts of a situation:"

I mentioned early on in this thread that as an affiliate I always see the explosion in purchasing, and I can see clearly that the market loves the new figure. Many of the people here have to learn to see past their little orbit. And when they are wrong and are presented with the facts not bury their heads in the sand. You are not hurting me with your delusions, you just don't want to face facts.

Some good points IceEmpress, it's a breath of fresh air to see some critical analysis rather than just inflammatory opinion. The Poserverse could use a lot more of that kind of thinking.

Honestly I did look at supporting Dawn and even made a few clothing items but the application split was a little too clumsy in approach to be practical on a commercial level.

If your services are not wanted, what business will still keep providing them?
Uh, the services are clearly wanted by customers.  You're right that the middle finger thing was extreme hyperbole on my part, and I apologize to everyone for it.  I'm just frustrated over having another generation forced upon us (support for Genesis 2 WILL be dropped, leaving customers with no new G2 products), and the break of tradition with Poser support which I find offensive, and all of this to sell-out by abandoning their indie small-business roots and hobbyist fans for the big industry/mainstream.  That, and I had a HORRIBLE day yesterday (that's not even counting how upset I was about the whole Gen3 thing)  Neither of which is an excuse for my behavior.

Who would provide services to customers that have been openly hostile to them, and don't buy their products?
I see plenty of customers who AREN'T hostile, and doing what they can to make Genesis 2 work in Poser.  Hell, we have a vendor here who makes Poser-only dynamic clothing for Genesis 2, and those outfits have texture support from IIRC at least two vendors.  I have also seen people complain about the scarcity of new(er) products in the DAZ store with Poser mat support.  This is a perfectly understandable grievance, IMO, and the incidents that I can recall folks complaining about it, it did sound as though they were interested in buying DAZ's products.

And while we're on the subject, there are 3D modelers/gamedevs/programmers of the big professional software who look down upon those who do not make their own models, and esp. look down on anyone who wants to use or convert a commercial product for even private use in Max, Maya, etc.  Purchasing a game dev license to use someone's commercial project rather than making your own is heavily frowned upon in some circles.  (This elitism is in many ways similar to the elitism you see among a subset of Linux, BSD, and Ubuntu users towards Windows and Mac users)

The issue isn't with the Poser users so much it's with the lack of support from the Poser developers for 3rd party content development. Daz has been working hard on making a solid suite of development tools for vendors. SM have not. Daz have developed new figures with new features. SM have not made any move to integrate these figure into Poser or make content development crossover easy. It's becoming harder and harder to consolidate what can be made in DS and Poser to an equal level without quadruple the work load. But I'm sure you are probably familiar with all of these viewpoints. I've been saying over and over that DAZ are not excluding Poser, Poser is just falling behind or heading in a different direction development wise depending on your viewpoint. Genesis 2 will still be there and I have a feeling it could become the go to figure in Poser unless SM are prepared to collaborate on G3. But who knows maybe that door has already closed.

Corporately DAZ are following a very sensible policy of maximising profit by upgrading their product very regularly to encourage people to buy new product and spend more money. In my "opinion" the end result in the render is not huge over V4. Both look very good in Both poser and Studio. DAZ is greedy... it is a business. The boss of DAZ is not in it for the karma.

It's not corp. greed, it's a business. Corp. greed would be if DAZ 3D was trying to break standards to become a monopoly. Maybe you can understand it if I put it to you this way, or maybe not.

If DAZ 3D does not innovate another company, not even SM, because as I see it they dropped the ball, DAZ 3D will be in the same position SM is in today. In business, if you don't innovate and/or become the market leader you will die.

As explained a gazillion times, DAZ 3D is not sticking it to anyone and they are doing what I would do in their position, even accepting industry standards. Moving forward. This is good not only for the hobbyist but new customers coming in from other platforms (a brilliant move). We get better and better figures. Victoria 7 is nothing as compared to Victoria 10 when it comes out, but coming out it will. You can wait until then or join in now, either way the market is moving. Stop taking it personally. This is the nature of the business. Technology moves forward.

And you don't have to move to any new figure if you don't want, V4 is still being supported.

If DAZ 3D is so evil and greedy why is it that their affiliate program is the best in the industry? They share the wealth with those who put in the effort. I do OK as an affiliate and I am not even a PA.

If your services are not wanted, what business will still keep providing them?
Uh, the services are clearly wanted by customers.  You're right that the middle finger thing was extreme hyperbole on my part, and I apologize to everyone for it.  I'm just frustrated over having another generation forced upon us (support for Genesis 2 WILL be dropped, leaving customers with no new G2 products), and the break of tradition with Poser support which I find offensive, and all of this to sell-out by abandoning their indie small-business roots and hobbyist fans for the big industry/mainstream.  That, and I had a HORRIBLE day yesterday (that's not even counting how upset I was about the whole Gen3 thing)  Neither of which is an excuse for my behavior.

Who would provide services to customers that have been openly hostile to them, and don't buy their products?
I see plenty of customers who AREN'T hostile, and doing what they can to make Genesis 2 work in Poser.  Hell, we have a vendor here who makes Poser-only dynamic clothing for Genesis 2, and those outfits have texture support from IIRC at least two vendors.  I have also seen people complain about the scarcity of new(er) products in the DAZ store with Poser mat support.  This is a perfectly understandable grievance, IMO, and the incidents that I can recall folks complaining about it, it did sound as though they were interested in buying DAZ's products.

And while we're on the subject, there are 3D modelers/gamedevs/programmers of the big professional software who look down upon those who do not make their own models, and esp. look down on anyone who wants to use or convert a commercial product for even private use in Max, Maya, etc.  Purchasing a game dev license to use someone's commercial project rather than making your own is heavily frowned upon in some circles.  (This elitism is in many ways similar to the elitism you see among a subset of Linux, BSD, and Ubuntu users towards Windows and Mac users)

I think the previous point of statistics should be made here. Poser support was dropped due to the low percentage of users using the import technology. Redoing the importer for the new weight mapping and manipulation of all the new bones and facial wasn't worth the effort and wouldn't return on the investment. The api on SM's side hasn't not been improved for better performance while new features were added to the DS side. Doing things for sentimental reasons unfortunately doesn't work in business, though those affected may seem like they are being betrayed. Business are in business to make money, and recoup investments. In this case it was a better use of investment to switch weight mapping and targeting getting Genesis in multiple applications with industry standards rather than target one platform that wasn't making money and performance wasn't the best.  And the effort to make DAZ's products more compatible allows people from other apps to use them, but also it allows DAZ users to put Genesis in other apps as well, rather than just sending a static obj. There are DAZ users that ultimately render or have workflows in other apps as well and switching to standards allows them to use genesis with those tools and be able to pose them or not have UVs overlapping like in previous generations. This is a win for DS users as well. Also SM may be more apt to adopt the standards as well since they were apprehensive about using DAZ tech in their programs. Instead of a DSON importer that emulates, the result may be an FBX import that allows the genesis rig to be native and use Poser's tools, which were previously problematic with the importer. But this time, SM will have to do the work instead of DAZ spending resources to do it. DAZ has spent 5 years of resources with little return, so it makes sense to end it.

It's incredible that some people on the forums, and it is always the same few people, don't even want to believe in the statistics.

"bury one's head in the sand, to avoid reality; ignore the facts of a situation:"

I mentioned early on in this thread that as an affiliate I always see the explosion in purchasing, and I can see clearly that the market loves the new figure. Many of the people here have to learn to see past their little orbit. And when they are wrong and are presented with the facts not bury their heads in the sand. You are not hurting me with your delusions, you just don't want to face facts.

From what I heard V7 was selling like hotcakes yesterday, even with the change in UV, weightmapping and no poser support. It also brought the downloads to a crawl and there were overloads on the website. I know I couldn't get in a few times. This would mean that customer demand is there and will speed adoption, like what happened with V6. If the customers are demanding content, then the market is going to shift in that direction fairly quickly. If that's the case, then DAZ made a good call in not investing resources in poser support... but then they have their reports and statistics to make that decision and not relying on emotion. The industry standards and the Iray support sounds like it's a hard combo to resist right now.

Razor 42. As you are repeatedly demonstrably incapable of actually understanding or framing an informed discussion your commentary is specious and an irrelevance. 

Adopting the Python defence of mearly taking the opposite side and hurling insults at people because you can't reason in a rational manner is underdeveloped and sad. Your demonstrated aggressive attitude and approach pinpoints your lack of mental acuity as you flail around with your half baked "research" and wonderful fantasy facts that have nothing at all to do with the the topic, whilst childishly calling people names, like the troll you are.

Maybe when you are old enough and have enough world experience you will grow up. Right now I suggest you carry on banging your little tin drum and making a fool of yourself as it obviously makes you very happy.

You should join the tea party movement, they need people like you.

Oh please... Give me a break...

Victoria 7. What a surprise.

Daz Studio only? What a surprise.

Buy content again? What a surprise. 

I am glad I use poser. I can't use her it seems so I cannot waste my money for another model that will be dead in 12 months.

LOL, did you not start off with this comment, DalekSupreme? I'm not sure you can call anyone out on discussions when you start it off like this.

Glass houses, and came to start a fight... which got relegated to this forum. 

Some interesting comments ... but I wasn't aware there was this billion market of 3DsMax users eager to pay $40 for V7 (naked & without clothing!) :).

I doubt DAZ is greedy - likely they just want to make payroll month by month. Most companies work that way. Still, as a Poser PRO 2014 user who kind of, almost got the DSON import working predictably a few months ago, I signed up to DAZ3D "PC club" again after 4 years of absence, plus spent (per my credit card records) close to $400 on G2F content at Daz and rendo in May - building up a basic library. It has been fun, and assuming I clear the DSON cache often enough it works.

Still, I'll keep an eye on DAZ, and if they move to only G3F and non-Poser, I'll drop them again. Will they care? not likely (given the billion $$ 'other tool' Market some posters say DAZ is chasing.) It is like the poster who added a comment to one of my forum threads about how "If Poser doesn't soon work on Linux, I'll seek other options!" SNORT! Many of us are BIG frogs in very small ponds!

Razor 42. As you are repeatedly demonstrably incapable of actually understanding or framing an informed discussion your commentary is specious and an irrelevance. 

Adopting the Python defence of mearly taking the opposite side and hurling insults at people because you can't reason in a rational manner is underdeveloped and sad. Your demonstrated aggressive attitude and approach pinpoints your lack of mental acuity as you flail around with your half baked "research" and wonderful fantasy facts that have nothing at all to do with the the topic, whilst childishly calling people names, like the troll you are.

Maybe when you are old enough and have enough world experience you will grow up. Right now I suggest you carry on banging your little tin drum and making a fool of yourself as it obviously makes you very happy.

You should join the tea party movement, they need people like you.

Is that all you have for me, I'm slightly disappointed I was hoping for something so much more creative from you. If your going to just resort to flat out defaming me, at least add some flare to it.

Your last few attempts have been.. whats the word for it... a little limp maybe?

Hello all,
As a Poser user I came here open minded now that the tread is in the correct forum, in search of some nice promo render examples of what the new bird in town could do.

So? Instead of filling pages with words.

Show what one can do with V7, and most of all, why the technology is so much better then Gen2..
Pretty please.
Thanks.

I can give you an image or two. I've been testing a new light set out all day that I am working on.

This is one of the test renders with V7

Thanks Razor, that is a good start.

Please continue this tread realising that one "sells" by showing the advantages of the new technology, and not through words alone.

Thanks.

Good point Vilters, but just remember this thread started out as a whine thread in the Poser Forum. And hasn't really progressed a whole lot from there and probably won't much either. A little secret very few Daz Users actually visit the Daz Forums here at Renderosity so don't expect this thread to be over brimming.

If you really want to see what G3 can do I would suggest maybe visiting the real Daz Forums. The main Vicky 7 thread there is over 35 pages deep already with a stack of images.

I'm a poser user almost exclusively and when I first saw that there's a new genesis that doesn't work well with poser I was very disappointed.

I couldn't really see any justification for starting a new round of spending for her. Then I tried the free G3F and I have to admit, I'm impressed.

Here's G3F with G2Fs Hair, clothes, shoes and pose with no readjustment whatsoever. The available morphs are limited but the movement and expression are truly exceptional. Just try the hand and feet poses, not to mention the face. I didn't expect the jaw to have such a difference in the overall expression.

I'm not going to spend any money on her until there's support for poser but I don't see any point in complaining about it. It is truly a great improvement and I'm glad that there's new more advanced figures being made.

But this is not acceptable to me. Imported with D3D DSONLoader

I can understand why Smith Micro would not bend over backwards to make a non-standard DAZ figure usable in Poser.  While it is sad that Genesis 1 and 2 were not terribly easy to use there, I can't fault SM for their decision.  If Generation 3 of Genesis IS industry standard architecture though, and Poser still can't use it, who is going to be left behind?  Personally I think Smith Micro needs to get it's butt in gear at this point if it wants Poser to stay relevant.  The whining though really isn't about Vicky 7, why should a Poser user care?  Unless of course they have some other axe to grind, such as the state of development in Poser...

This one only baked for a minute or two. Using a different set of lights.

Cool render Seeker. You may be waiting a long while for Poser support unless SM can be convinced to join the party,

This one only baked for a minute or two. Using a different set of lights.

Cool render Seeker. You may be waiting a long while for Poser support unless SM can be convinced to join the party,

Thank you Razor42, she does look very beautiful in your renders! I agree about SM, I think it's more on Posers' court to support the new technologies. In any case, I don't really care who does it as long as it's done. I have faith that if not the two corporations then the users themselves will find a way eventually.

Good point Vilters, but just remember this thread started out as a whine thread in the Poser Forum. And hasn't really progressed a whole lot from there and probably won't much either. A little secret very few Daz Users actually visit the Daz Forums here at Renderosity so don't expect this thread to be over brimming.

If you really want to see what G3 can do I would suggest maybe visiting the real Daz Forums. The main Vicky 7 thread there is over 35 pages deep already with a stack of images.

Also Vilters helped start the fighting that led to the thread being moved, so I find his post quite disingenuous. If this thread is not welcome there, I really don't think his presence is required here as he won't be using it and caused the commotion to begin with.  

Thank you.

@ Razor, thanks, looking nice.

@ M3D : Vilters did not start or end anything.
He only likes discussions in their proper treads. Live and let live, each on his own adress.
This tread is exactly where it should be now; The DAZ/DS forum.

And what Razor shows, looks good. And when something looks good, I"ll be the first to complement it.

@ Razor, thanks, looking nice.

@ M3D : Vilters did not start or end anything.
He only likes discussions in their proper treads. Live and let live, each on his own adress.
This tread is exactly where it should be now; The DAZ/DS forum.

And what Razor shows, looks good. And when something looks good, I"ll be the first to complement it.

Yes you did.... I can add links if you've forgotten again. ;)  And you aren't a Poser user? You're quick to throw that others, just by even showing up in a thread, so I'm not quite getting why you're not following your own advice. Just don't come through trolling the thread, there's been enough of that you've participated in.  

Leave Vilters alone lol. He is behaving himself:) Let us not chase Poser users away like they do with us:)

Leave Vilters alone lol. He is behaving himself:) Let us not chase Poser users away like they do with us:)

For now and as long as he behaves.

I think people are confusing Victoria 5, 6 and 7 to be equal to V4. That's not really the case here. Genesis supplanted the Victoria series. G1, G2F, G2M and G3F are all free from Daz. Victoria is a custom morph of a Genesis figure, not the other way around. Basically, Victoria 4 evolved into Genesis 1, not Victoria 5. You could get the free Genesis figures and still do a ton of stuff without Victoria. Quit frankly, I don't think I've actually used V5 or V6. I tended to get really nice V4 characters and convert them for use for G1. I preferred the ability to use clothing for G1 and have it work for Male or Female, although not every outfit is optimal depending on if it was a V4 or M4 outfit. Still, a lot more versatility and it was significantly faster to render than even V4.

Genesis 3 is nice, no doubt. She renders well, although slower. If you want the Victoria 7 model of G3F, you'll only get an Iray skin, so in my mind she's extremely limited in what you can do with her. She can use G2F clothing, but that's where it ends unfortunately. I bought V7, but I'm seriously reconsidering buying any future Victoria's or Michael's since they are basically just morphs on a free model. G3F's model is no worse than V7. If vendors are smart, they will make new G3F characters NOT require V7. This will give people more options and less to purchase or require.

I have to agree that I don't like the fact that it can't move to Poser, but when you look at the geometry of the new Genesis 3 character, you realize that Poser couldn't handle it anyways. Poser has a different direction in mind for their product and Daz has theirs. I think we have to understand from this point forward that the two will never again be on the same path for future development. Das builds Studio to get people to spend on content. Poser uses existing content to get you to purchase their product. I prefer to get free software so I can keep buying more content, but that's just me.

Even with the new G3 models, G1 will still be my goto character. The flexibility is just too strong for me. The renders are great and I rarely do any character that isn't clothed. If I was doing some more studio photography like art with swimsuits or cough artistic options, then I could seriously consider using G3 just due to the incredible model with much better facial features and absolutely amazing bends. I think I'll stick with just G3 though. I bought V7, but I doubt I'll use her. I can't really use Iray as it takes 25x longer to render on my computer and I have a nVidia GPU. Go figure.

Like a lot of folks I grabbed G3F and the starter stuff, and I've been playing around with it. It shows a lot of promise -- I love the expressiveness of the G3F model, and posing is looking really cool so far.

So, somewhere around Christmas, I'm looking forward to grabbing some V7/G3 paid content.

Why so long? Because it'll take some time before critical infrastructure moves into place. Morph packages beyond the initial run. Clothing that really takes advantage of the new tech. Skins. Skins. Skins. Also skins.

It'll also take time for the development crowd to build the bridging tools. Right now, I have a huge investment in (that word again) skins. I have to believe that someone will come up with a converter that will let us use G2F and G2M skins with G3F. Similarly, I have to believe that Dimension3D will come out with Gen3X to let us migrate morphs. It won't necessarily be easy, and the results may not be optimum, but it'll happen.

In the meantime... Daz3D isn't going to stop producing G2F content tomorrow. There's inertia to these things. For months to come, Daz will still produce things for G2F and G2M, just like they've released 3Delight/Uber shaders after IRay came out. There's a lot of producers who have a lot of stuff in current development -- those pipelines don't close the instant things change on the tech line.

And when the G2F/G2M/et cetera pipeline at Daz does dry up? Well, I have a Renderosity membership for a lot of reasons, and one of those is legacy support. Looking at today's "What's New" page in the Marketplace I quickly count 14 products with explicit support for Victoria 4 or Michael 4 (which also means support for G2F/G2M for my purposes). So long as people are buying content for G2F/G2M, content will be made for them, the same way that content continues to be made for Victoria 4 and her ilk. Gen2X also means I've been able to move my G2 stuff down into Genesis with little trouble, so I've never felt like I couldn't keep using Genesis as needed. I again assume someone will be amazingly clever in building 'downgrade' bridges. They always are.

(And yes, I realize Poser is a major market for continuing V4 support. That doesn't change the fact that I can use most of that content with my current figures, which are pretty much all Genesis 2. For that matter, that doesn't change the fact that I actually own Poser too.)

So, chalk me up as someone who likes the look of the new generation and the direction of the technology, but who doesn't plan on investing in it until there's a broad base for it, especially because his current tech's not going anywhere and is going to have new stuff come in for it for a long time to come.

(Besides, that's money I can spend on IRay shaders. That's the technology I jumped into on day one. Soooo much money falling into IRay shaders....)

 You can already copy morphs over without using GenX; just use the transfer tool, but you'll need some external modelling for clean up.

Also this post from the person that made the mesh, which explains the changes in G3 and UVs:

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewreply/845208/ 

"Daz wants a Monopoly."

I'm going to call BS on that one. Studio moving to an industry standard makes it perfectly feasible for SM to implement that industry standard into poser. In other words this move is the exact opposite of trying to have a monopoly on what programs can use the figure. It is in SM's hands if they want to add that standard however.

There's a lot of BS going around lately. I don't know why people don't understand they can use both programs if they want to and who cares which? Because you might want to try DS and buy some stuff doesn't in any way mean you're abandoning your investment in Poser. Besides, when's the last time you used a 15 year old figure or other really old content? I told SM before that listening to the users boo-hoo about backwards compatibility was gonna bite them in the ass. Well, seems it's come to pass... You can't move forward if  you're only looking back. One more thing - Daz is a business and as such they are in the business to make money. It's not their responsibility to provide a product to you at the price you want to pay. And they can't get emotional about it either (IE: "only out for the money", "greedy", "in it for themselves"). Yep. Sounds like a business to me. And If everyone were jostling for Poser, SM would be doing it too. Or maybe SM is losing the battle because they don't do more OF that.

FWIW, all this is coming from primarily a Poser users (and I have been for 16 years). I only just recently started using DS. I don't see why I can't use both shrug.

Laurie

"When you can only buy one source for content..."

Did you know that renderosity strongly encourages products to be exclusive to them? I'm betting that they and DAZ are not the only ones who prefer content to be exclusive to their site. It is just good business.

"does it really matter if it is in an industry standard in a content free zone? Let me just pop off to all the other stores you mention and buy V7 a new blouse. What I can't? Damn! a Monopoly is not based on Standards, it is based on what you can buy where."

First, there is no one preventing sales of products for G3 at other brokerages. I am sure that there will be products here for her in the next couple of days as a matter of fact.

"Now they are ditching the hobbyist crowd for the industrial standard/big business crowd,"

That is just well...poop. How does going to an industry standard prevent any hobbyist from continuing to do exactly what they are already doing? Did it prevent people from doing hobby work when people started doing pro work with DAZ figures? When they used genesis with Iclone did that suddenly prevent hobbiest from going on as they always had? Why on earth would anyone be prevented from continuing as a hobby just because more people could use it if they wanted to? Are you thinking that suddenly every content provider who does products for G3 is suddenly going to stop and only do game assets or something? Because that is what it would take for the hobbyists to be "ditched".

"It was a paid product and could easily become one again. Pro version versus Free version. If Daz owned all of the market they would make D/S and their free products whatever price they thought they could get away with.... it is business and they are in it for the money."

Why is it that people forget that out of the life span of Studio it was only pay for for a very short time. DAZ realized that it was a mistake to try and sell it when they did much better financially if it was free. As far as income goes at DAZ content is king and software is secondary.

 You can already copy morphs over without using GenX; just use the transfer tool, but you'll need some external modelling for clean up.

 

Also this post from the person that made the mesh, which explains the changes in G3 and UVs:

 

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewreply/845208/ 

Veeeeery enlightening -- thanks! (I still think a converter will get made -- I'll just be increasingly impressed when it is.)

I was hoping there would be some intelligent discussion on the new figure. Sadly it seems to be the same old people fighting. I do think certain people's arguments would carry more weight if they weren't dependent on Daz for an income. I'm not seeing anything that makes me want to rush out and buy V7. Just another scrawny white girl with way too much skimp wear. As I'm not into 3d porn I don't really care about her anus or how flexible she is.

Renders are pretty but not seeing much difference between this one and previous generations. Certainly not $200 worth.

Daz is a business if they want to appeal to people with endless expense accounts who can buy things full price, good for them. I'm just a hobbyist, I'm waiting for the sale which knowing Daz will be here sooner rather than later.

If Poser would be willing to adopt the industry standards that DAZ has, I can see Poser being able to use DAZ content in the foreseeable future. The ball is in Poser's court.

Mod Hat On...

Guys, if you use language in a posting please don't forget to use the language flag.  And if you quote a post that needs the language flag you have to flag your post as well. The thread may have multiple advisories but a search can pull up individual posts so each instance needs flagging.  Thanks and if I missed any let me know.

Mod Hat Off...

If Poser would be willing to adopt the industry standards that DAZ has, I can see Poser being able to use DAZ content in the foreseeable future. The ball is in Poser's court.

It's nice to think about..but I won't be holding my breath. I want to live. LOL. Laurie

If Poser would be willing to adopt the industry standards that DAZ has, I can see Poser being able to use DAZ content in the foreseeable future. The ball is in Poser's court.

Even if that happens, how do you convince content creators that it's worth supporting Poser again with G3 content when they saw next to no financial gain adding Poser support in the past with Genesis1 and 2? It's funny actually. Poser users slammed Dson and vowed to boycott it now they want it? Point is, the damage has already been done. We tried to support Poser via Dson and got a big fat FU as a thanks. We have moved on, and so has Daz. SM had the opportunity to show support, they chose not to. Not our fault. To add most content creators will be focused on 3DLight and Iray materials. So content will have to be manually adjusted to work in Poser. It's just not viable anymore.

Point is, things could have been very different. But everything happens for a reason. SM made a business decision, and now they have to keep their users happy without Daz.

The issue isn't with the Poser users so much it's with the lack of support from the Poser developers for 3rd party content development.
It's becoming harder and harder to consolidate what can be made in DS and Poser to an equal level without quadruple the work load. But I'm sure you are probably familiar with all of these viewpoints.
I can never remember all of them though, in addition to having a vague memory of the folks at the Content Paradise forums (back when they still existed) blaming Daz for the lack of support for some reason (actually, I think I do remember one point-- their excuse was that Daz's Tri-ax being proprietary, which they had issues with though I do not recall anything more than that.)
I agree 100% that in the past 2 years that SM is the one who has been dropping the ball, and not just on DAZ Support either (as both MaleM3dia and I have noted, their customer support button is broken, as is the Commercial button.  The CP forums were shut down 2 or 3 years ago.  Thus, the only way to contact them is via the phone number listed at the bottom, and who knows if even that works?)

There's a lot of BS going around lately. I don't know why people don't understand they can use both programs if they want to and who cares which?
Many people, myself included, don't want to have to learn the intermediate to advanced procedures, way in which shaders work, etc. for two whole programs.  That is a lot to keep track of, esp. for someone who is not tech savvy enough to be able to just pick up any program and go.

Or maybe SM is losing the battle because they don't do more OF that.
I think it's both, but esp. the latter.  It doesn't help that SM seems to have almost abandoned its own site in favor of sales through third party sites (the broken support/become a vendor links, removed its forums, no site redesign, the product categories having problems for years, holding your purchased downloads for annual ransom, etc)

Did you know that renderosity strongly encourages products to be exclusive to them? I'm betting that they and DAZ are not the only ones who prefer content to be exclusive to their site. It is just good business.
I don't like that they do that, personally, though I have no problem with lower rewards for non-exclusive sales.  RDNA is worse-- they REQUIRE that all products be exclusives, which is probably the main reason why they lag so far behind DAZ and Rendo. (it certainly isn't due to the quality of their products, that's for sure!)

That is just well...poop. How does going to an industry standard prevent any hobbyist from continuing to do exactly what they are already doing?
Well, it prevents Poser users from doing so.  Joining the industry standard means making everything more complicated and less backwards-compatible with DAZ, and necessitate a top-of-the-line computer/graphics card, which is we are already seeing with both Iray and G3F. My comp has enough trouble with Genesis 2 and 3Delight.

Redoing the importer for the new weight mapping and manipulation of all the new bones and facial wasn't worth the effort and wouldn't return on the investment.
That's my point.  They shouldn't have designed her like that, let alone released her for another year or so, in the first place.  Keep her rigging close enough to the older figures and use the same 1/0 UV mapping.  Don't change everything just to sell out to the big leagues.  DAZ is abandoning its roots. 

Why is it that people forget that out of the life span of Studio it was only pay for for a very short time. DAZ realized that it was a mistake to try and sell it when they did much better financially if it was free.
I wouldn't say that's something to be grateful for, since it's not an act of altruism.  The "free to play" model has been adopted widely by the gaming industry, and much to my chagrin and that of others, it will probably phase out one-time payment games/licenses out completely within a few decades.  Daz has modelled its business model off of the "free to play" gaming industry because it is indeed far more profitable than a pay-once license (even though in the free to play gaming industry, only a whopping 2% of players actually make purchases.)  Though thankfully DAZ has not adopted the vile standards of the free to play industry. (which IS something to be grateful for)  Though to be honest I'm not sure how it would even be possible due to differences between gaming and 3D software (beyond-- as an excellent comparison, giving devs who pre-order the DAZ 5 SDK extra features that will never again be available, thus giving them an unfair advantage over other PAs)

Poser users slammed Dson and vowed to boycott it now they want it?
I wouldn't say they wanted it-- more that it was taken as a "better than nothing" option at some point during Gen2.  Sure, many refused to use Dson at all-- many others used it SOME but found it to be lacking or too much of a hassle to use.  Then there are those who found work-arounds and have enjoyed Genesis 2 in Poser.  I have no idea what the ratio of any of them are, since all most of us (including most vendors aside from those who sell Poser-only G2F content) or how many of the latter two categories there are, since all we see are forumites and freebie makers who fall under one of the three categories. 
It goes beyond G3F however-- the implications here are that the Daz Dragon 4 probably won't have Dson support at all (since Daz Dragon 3 was Dson only with no Poser native files)  I have seen complaints on Daz Dragon x Rendo product pages when Poser materials are not provided.

While we are in the real try vs. bitching upon hypothesis subject, I suggest you to explore for real how Iray and G3 work on your box. On my six years old workhorse main computer they work pleasantly, on my lowly 500 euro notebook with an entry level NVIDIA card even better.
My computer is 5 years old without an Nvidia graphics card, so I can't try it out even if I wanted to, and I can't afford a new computer.