The title says it all.... no news, no updates, no development for years. I know the Poser community isn't dead, but has development finally come to a definite halt? 2.5 years of nothing is a long time in the software development world. Am I too seriously look to the competition for future advancement now?

Years? o.O

From SM site:

Poser Pro 11.1.0 Update Released 12/18/2017

There was an update to Poser 11.1 ome weeks ago, so I think you missed it.

Thanks, I see it now. Took them 2 years to develop that? Not really hopeful.

There have been several updates until now so, Poser is alive.

This is just my perspective here .... but since current "updates" are slowed down, it would be good to assume they are preparing work on the next version. Not an official announcement or anything near that, but it makes sense.

At least 7 fairly large updates since it's release.

Wake me up when they COLLAPSE THE DAMN HIERARCHY.

Kazam561 posted at 11:56PM Sun, 03 June 2018 - #4329713

At least 7 fairly large updates since it's release.

Boni posted at 11:54PM Sun, 03 June 2018 - #4329704

This is just my perspective here .... but since current "updates" are slowed down, it would be good to assume they are preparing work on the next version. Not an official announcement or anything near that, but it makes sense.

7 updates in over 30 months isn't exactly fast in the first place :) and definitely not too many. Well, I'll wait and see what will happen.

But we would appreciate a hint or two from SM that they are actually working on the next version!

Smith Micro has reorganized their graphics software development in the last two years, but as noted above, updates continue...

"With the restructuring has come significant changes throughout the worldwide office locations. First off, we closed our Northern California location which housed the majority of the graphics division. We are in the process of rebuilding our graphics engineering team in our Braga, Portugal location. We have also significantly reduced our staff at our Aliso Viejo location and will rely in the future on both our Pittsburgh and Belgrade teams to pick up the workload. "

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4053983-smith-micro-softwares-smsi-ceo-bill-smith-q4-2016-results-earnings-call-transcript

I've read that and that doesn't instill much trust to be honest. Closing division, downsizing, moving to a different counrty and expecting others to carry an extra workload isn't exactly the most hopeful news. Making it even worse is that some of the key players in Poser development refused to move countries (and rightfully so). Seems to me that Smith Micro might be killing Poser slowly, but surely themselves.

Hope Pixologic buys Poser :)

More realistically, why does not being physically located at the "office" preclude development of Poser by the team members that didn't move? I wouldn't either, but this is the day of online conferencing etc.,

movida posted at 6:43PM Tue, 05 June 2018 - #4331187

More realistically, why does not being physically located at the "office" preclude development of Poser by the team members that didn't move? I wouldn't either, but this is the day of online conferencing etc.,

You'd be amazed - or maybe not - just how many companies like to have their staff on company premises so they can keep a beady eye on 'em. I can understand it from a security point of view, in that any work done in the company premises can be monitored, as can any communication with the outside world. Having people working from home can be a huge leap of faith that the employees take network security and confidentiality as seriously as the company would like. Having punitive clauses regarding security etc is only effective up to a point, and doesn't repair any damage done if an employee has their system compromise and/or confidential work stolen.

And, companies generally like to remind their workers who is calling the shots.

SamTherapy posted at 3:29PM Tue, 05 June 2018 - #4331208

movida posted at 6:43PM Tue, 05 June 2018 - #4331187

More realistically, why does not being physically located at the "office" preclude development of Poser by the team members that didn't move? I wouldn't either, but this is the day of online conferencing etc.,

You'd be amazed - or maybe not - just how many companies like to have their staff on company premises so they can keep a beady eye on 'em. I can understand it from a security point of view, in that any work done in the company premises can be monitored, as can any communication with the outside world. Having people working from home can be a huge leap of faith that the employees take network security and confidentiality as seriously as the company would like. Having punitive clauses regarding security etc is only effective up to a point, and doesn't repair any damage done if an employee has their system compromise and/or confidential work stolen.

And, companies generally like to remind their workers who is calling the shots.

I share your opinion of employers :)

aeilkema posted at 6:51AM Wed, 06 June 2018 - #4331123

Making it even worse is that some of the key players in Poser development refused to move countries (and rightfully so).

We weren't asked to move countries. We were laid off.

stewer posted at 7:14PM Wed, 06 June 2018 - #4331243

aeilkema posted at 6:51AM Wed, 06 June 2018 - #4331123

Making it even worse is that some of the key players in Poser development refused to move countries (and rightfully so).

We weren't asked to move countries. We were laid off.

Ouch. That's harsh.

My girlfriend works (still works I have to add) for a USA owned company in Belgium. This is how it went: "A guy", never seen before enters the building and calls for a workforce meeting.

We are restructuring. "You, you, you, (about 30% of the company), you come to office XYZ by 10AM." So they went.

Guads waiting; They were guided outwards off the property to waiting transport to get them home. Worried some replied : "Hela? We haver pusonal stuff on our desks. Phones, clothes, wallets"

Not to worry we will collect everything that is not company property from your offices/desks and send it to your home address. Goodbye and good luck.

Restructuring completed.

SamTherapy posted at 8:40PM Thu, 07 June 2018 - #4331263

stewer posted at 7:14PM Wed, 06 June 2018 - #4331243

aeilkema posted at 6:51AM Wed, 06 June 2018 - #4331123

Making it even worse is that some of the key players in Poser development refused to move countries (and rightfully so).

We weren't asked to move countries. We were laid off.

Ouch. That's harsh.

Yup. It was.

Deecey posted at 6:25PM Fri, 08 June 2018 - #4331349

SamTherapy posted at 8:40PM Thu, 07 June 2018 - #4331263

stewer posted at 7:14PM Wed, 06 June 2018 - #4331243

aeilkema posted at 6:51AM Wed, 06 June 2018 - #4331123

Making it even worse is that some of the key players in Poser development refused to move countries (and rightfully so).

We weren't asked to move countries. We were laid off.

Ouch. That's harsh.

Yup. It was.

All the very best to you - and all others laid off - for future gainful employment.

ockham posted at 12:04AM Sat, 09 June 2018 - #4329721

Wake me up when they COLLAPSE THE DAMN HIERARCHY.

This is something I've wanted for the looooongest time. I waste so much time collapsing everything that gets added to a scene, and it's frustrating as all get out.

tonyvilters posted at 9:35AM Mon, 11 June 2018 - #4331325

My girlfriend works (still works I have to add) for a USA owned company in Belgium. This is how it went: "A guy", never seen before enters the building and calls for a workforce meeting.

We are restructuring. "You, you, you, (about 30% of the company), you come to office XYZ by 10AM." So they went.

Guads waiting; They were guided outwards off the property to waiting transport to get them home. Worried some replied : "Hela? We haver pusonal stuff on our desks. Phones, clothes, wallets"

Not to worry we will collect everything that is not company property from your offices/desks and send it to your home address. Goodbye and good luck.

Restructuring completed.

Which is why I don't keep anything personal in my desk or take anything the company owns home with me except my uniform. They gave me a hand book and that's still in the office too. I don't like that kind of corporate treatment of employees. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to just kick you off their property and keep your car until they can rifle through it, all under the pretense of sorting out what's theirs and what's yours.

Miss B posted at 9:40AM Mon, 11 June 2018 - #4331415

ockham posted at 12:04AM Sat, 09 June 2018 - #4329721

Wake me up when they COLLAPSE THE DAMN HIERARCHY.

This is something I've wanted for the looooongest time. I waste so much time collapsing everything that gets added to a scene, and it's frustrating as all get out.

Can that be done with a Python script?

I don't know enough about Python scripting to say yes, but I would "think" it could be.

If you want to keep up with Poser development, I’d suggest that you spend time at the SM forums. The ‘Rosity forums haven’t been the place to be for a while now.

AFA the heirarchy, have you submitted a feature request? There is a specific thread over.

They don’t look at random forum posts.

ssgbryan posted at 11:31AM Sat, 16 June 2018 - #4331828

If you want to keep up with Poser development, I’d suggest that you spend time at the SM forums. The ‘Rosity forums haven’t been the place to be for a while now.

AFA the heirarchy, have you submitted a feature request? There is a specific thread over.

They don’t look at random forum posts.

Groan, Actually Renderosity receives way more traffic then the official Smith Micro forums ever have for all of their graphic suites. And I mean like at least 10-20 times as much traffic daily. As far as I know Renderosity is a partner with Smith Micro and a distributor of the Poser platform and does plenty of marketing and support for them also. If it is too much trouble for the Smith Micro Poser team to read the main Renderosity Poser forum once in in a while, it would be a pretty clear indicator of what they think of the broader community and their Poser user base, which may be part of their current problems. It seems what you're actually promoting here is a contraction of the Poser community?Encouraging excommunicating Renderosity 'for who knows what reason this time' will help no-one but just overall further damage the Poser community. Renderosity has done nothing but support Poser for many years now and is still to this day the largest provider of Poser content. From what I can see their is no further information regarding the future of the Poser format at the Official Poser forums then there is here? Or am I missing something? Who is it that you see commenting at the official forums in any official capacity on Poser development out of curiosity? Because I can't really see anyone from the Poser team their?

By specific thread do you mean that long, long, long thread titled "Submit your Poser Suggestions", that nobody in any official capacity has commented in for close to 9 months now? The last official comment directed people here, for their Poser suggestions. https://my.smithmicro.com/software-suggestions.html which I suggest would be a better place to raise suggestions for the future development of Poser.

Anyways...

If you are truly interested in the state of Poser's future development I would suggest looking at the Quarterly Reports made by Bill Smith the CEO of Smith Micro. SeekingAlpha has all of the quarterly reports archived on their site if you're interested. When looking at the last two quarterly reports two things are pretty obvious, Poser plays a very small part in Smith Micro's overall business strategy, with most comments bundling the entire graphics department together as a whole. And significant cuts have been made to the entire Smith Micro Graphics department and their Research and development operations since the release of Poser 11.

Some excerpts here from the last Quarterly report from Seekingalpha.com - Q1 2018

Tim Huffmyer (CFO) commented "Our graphics segment reported quarterly revenues of $650,000 compared to $1.2 million last year. The decrease in the graphics revenue was a result of the termination of the Clip Studio distribution agreement and lower unit sales of legacy products. We recently launched a new product and expect additional product launches later this year. Bill will discuss this activity in more detail in just a few minutes."

And BIll Smith (CEO) went on to add "I'm very pleased with the progress of our graphics group across several fronts. We achieved some key milestones in the first quarter, as we continue to build upon the changes made last year. Firstly, implemented some significant and much-needed upgrades to our back end e-commerce infrastructure and digital content marketplace. And by adding an exciting new product to our portfolio, we expanded our existing graphics product line up."

"As I mentioned in the last earnings call, this activity is central to long-term strategic vision of this business unit, as it supports the expansion of the customer base and helps reengage the incredibly loyal users of our core graphics products, Poser, Moho and Motion Artist."

"As I'm sure you saw, we announced our strategic relationship with Escape Motions a few weeks ago. Under this partnership, we will resell for award-winning graphics products, Rebel 3, a market-leading paying application is the first product we've added to our graphics portfolio as part of this agreement. I urge you to visit our online store, mydotsmithmicro.com, to take a look at Rebel. It is an amazing product. Rebel 3 also works very well with our other graphics products, such as Motion Artist and Moho, as digital artists can use these applications to bring their work to life with movement and sound."

"Our graphics portfolio will continue to grow throughout 2018, as several more releases are planned. These additional releases will further energize our market expansion, as we seek to transform our graphics portfolio into our comprehensive toolkit for digital artists. There are some exciting content-based opportunities emerging for graphics business in the expensive online universe of digital comics and the emerging virtual-reality market. Needless to say, there are exciting changes on the horizon within our graphics lineup, so stay tuned for future announcements."

One thing to remember is a fundamental change with the Poser development team has occurred over the last 12-24 months, with 95% of the people who have been working to develop the latest version of Poser being cut from the operating team including Larry Weinberg himself (The original creator of Poser) who now works as a part time consultant with SM only. So it may take some time, if ever, for Poser development to regain the momentum it has had in the past with future releases. One thing is for sure Poser and the Poser community are still in the picture with SM and the SM management team for the immediate future.

Other interesting developments by SM: 1st of May, 2018 https://www.nasdaq.com/press-release/smith-micro-announces-exclusive-distribution-agreement-with-escape-motions-to-resell-portfolio-of-20180501-00193 This is a press release announcing SM partnering with Escape Motions to resell their graphic software.

If you just want the SM corporate feel good message try here. With this video posted just a few of weeks ago by Smith Micro:

‘Rosity may recieve more overall traffic, but the Poser forums don’t. They have more active threads than this forum has posts. Sorry, but it isn’t Oct 2007 anymore.

The Poser community isn’t contracting, it is dispersing. After all, if one isn’t using DAZ figures, why be here? The Hivewire forums are where the Dawn & Dusk users are, and the SM forums are where folks that use the SM figures (And PE) are hanging out. ‘Rosity is where the DAZ holdouts are residing.

AFA ‘Rosity supporting Poser, please. Take a good look around. The only supporting around here is either squeezing the last out of legacy figures or how to get the DAZ golums working in Poser. Meh.

If you actually read the 1st post in the Poser development thread, you would realize that we are kibitzing over stuff we submitted to SM. They have a methodology and they are sticking to it. They aren’t going to change that to accommodate whiney users - decide what changes you would like to see and submit them. The 200 character limit requires you to think it out, rather than just ramble. I used a similar setup when I was getting feedback from my customers - If you give them the space to ramble, they will.

The entire graphics division is a very, very (10%) small part of SM, which most folks here and elsewhere don’t get.

AFA Poser development, having a new team looking at it with fresh eyes is a plus in my book - the new group seems to actually grasp that the hair and cloth room’s UI needs an overhaul, and they are looking at some of the Poser 1 cruft that is still there. 7 SRs wasn’t happening under the last group either.

I don’t view the current situation as doom and gloom, but I have been hearing that Poser is dying since December 2004.

but it isn’t Oct 2007 anymore

out of curisoity what did that mean ?

I hope SM follows the DAZ path and produces its own figure (like genesis) system, that is solid, by making auto fitting clothes and life like joint bending possible. That would be helpful.

-Timberwolf- posted at 3:04PM Mon, 18 June 2018 - #4331996

I hope SM follows the DAZ path and produces its own figure (like genesis) system, that is solid, by making auto fitting clothes and life like joint bending possible. That would be helpful.

Eventually maybe but really dont think any figure is going to be an over night success without community support it can be the best looking best bending but if people who create character content arent going to create for it then their back to square one...yet again. Maybe they should focus on the program itself the core of it..fixing all the tack ons and "fixes" which were probably done to it through out the years by various owners of Poser.fixing issues which people have been complaing about for some time now (other than figures..no one will ever agree on whats the perfect figure to one it might be bends for animation for the portrait artist maybe they dont care about that and only look for beauty in their figures and decent posing and not animation ready figures.. though they should all be but that's just my personal feelings) so thats probably not as easy as it sounds. Maybe on the figure side of things though they should lean towards basic pretty because its easy to make something ugly (look at all the monster and stuff everyone and their mother does with Zbrush) But its not easy to make ugly into pretty. without lots of work. basically its not easy to make a figure truly beautiful but extremely easy to make her ugly so at least start them off with a figure which is pretty.

I hope SM follows the DAZ path and produces its own figure (like

genesis) system, that is solid, by making auto fitting clothes and life

like joint bending possible. That would be helpful.

Technically SmithMicro has been producing its own figures since

poser 5 Don& Judy all the way up to Paul& pauline.

You all know the history of why they were not widely embraced for various reasons

Eventually maybe but really dont think any figure is going to be an

over night success without community support it can be the best

looking best bending but if people who create character content arent

going to create for it then their back to square one...yet again.

Third party"saviour" figures with exotic rigging schemes that do not

adhere to any uniform standards, do not seem to have longevity in the poser market unless the figures creators remain extremely

active in supporting the figures ecosystem with new clothing content.

To his credit, Anton Kisell Stayed in the game for at least a couple of

years supporting Apollo Max, before eventuaully abandoning it to be

crowd sourced.

How long after the official release of PE did its creator Decide to

"outsource" its continued development??

The reality of the matter is that there are many viable alternatives to poser in 2018. I was a poser user from Fractal design poser 2 up until Poser "Pro" 2014.

I now use Iclone Pro for animation applied to Daz people

Right now the Base avatars that ship with the included Reallusion

Iclone character creator, look better than any of the Poser natives by

default. ( See video) https://youtu.be/b5bVDsNP6Tg

And the upcoming stand alone Character Creator 3, due this Fall, will

be a direct competitor to Daz as it will have an IRay PBR render engine that supports substance painter materials and promises to Make

clothing creation and fitting for the new Iclone Avatars, as easy as it is

in Daz studio.

Poser has failed to grow its market outside those few remaining poser

die hard loyalists online communities and IMHO it will never grow under of a parent company who's "Graphics Division" is so tiny a part of its business model.

Reallusion and Daz have grown beyond their core loyalists, by making their figures & content easily migratable to other professional plaftorms via support of industry standard import/export formats.

Many professionals over at forums Like CGsociety.org are using both

Daz and Iclone in their personal pipelines at least .

Reallusion even leased the Autodesk Maya Human IK rigging

/animation system. Making Iclone every bit as powerful as the Autodesk Motionbuilder for us 3D animated movie makers without having to pay the monthly rental fees of an Autodesk cloud subscription for MOBU.

Right now Iclone pro with 3Dxchange and native Daz genesis 1,2,3,8

support is only $250 USD

Here is a short Four minute Clip from one of My projects jointly

created With Iclone Pro, Daz studio and Maxon Cinema4D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjokKZX1r6I

TheDarkerSideOfArt posted at 6:58PM Mon, 18 June 2018 - #4331986

but it isn’t Oct 2007 anymore

out of curisoity what did that mean ?

Release of Victoria 4.

‘Rosity (and every other storefront) exploded with content. All content for prior and competing figures disappeared within 30 days. (My CC still whimper over it.). We will never see anything like it again.

Problem is Vendors feel that they should see that level of sales for any subsequent figure. They don’t seem to grasp that the Modern Poser users understand that most content has been decoupled from figures.

Ten years ago, Poser Vendors would tell their prospective customers that if they didn’t like what was being offered for sale, they should learn to make their own content.

Now they wonder where their customers went.

If we aren’t making what we need, we simply drag a garment into the fitting room and spend 30 seconds converting it to the figure of our choice. The same can be said for hair, shoes, and even skin textures.

-Timberwolf- posted at 7:12PM Mon, 18 June 2018 - #4331996

I hope SM follows the DAZ path and produces its own figure (like genesis) system, that is solid, by making auto fitting clothes and life like joint bending possible. That would be helpful.

SM does create their own figures - they are my figures of choice, because (until the release of Paul and Pauline) they are the only normally sized characters available.

As far as clothing - Any figure can wear any other figure’s clothing. Dynamic or conforming.

The biggest difference between the current DAZ figures and other figures is that the DAZ figures have an entire cottage industry built around fixing the flaws of the product.

ssgbryan posted at 8:44PM Mon, 18 June 2018 - #4332029

TheDarkerSideOfArt posted at 6:58PM Mon, 18 June 2018 - #4331986

but it isn’t Oct 2007 anymore

out of curisoity what did that mean ?

Release of Victoria 4..

Ah ok got it, Thanks.

Wolf, Poser's had support for PBR and Substance Painter since 2015, the other apps are playing catch up in that regard. The issue has been making the old content work with the new render engine. For Poser the large runtimes people have built up over the years is both an asset and a problem with regard to developing the technology.

People don't expect to pay for software these days, revenue is generated from added services like support or micro transaction content. SM could stay with the current model and go down the "buy me and save money" approach used by zbrush - that would mean focusing on functionality and not figures.

@ssgbryan, I don't think you are quite aware of just how small both the Hivewire3D and Smith Micro Poser forum communities really are. And how little unique traffic is actually reaching those sites in comparison to other sites in this sphere. Encouraging people to abandon Renderosity, as I have seen you do on numerous occasions here, will do nothing but further damage the Poser community and honestly helps no-one. And if Renderosity is so irrelevant why are you here may I ask? From what I can see Hivewire3D releases products at a slow trickle at best, looking at their front page around 12 in the last month with predominantly products for the 'Daz golem' V4, as you put it.. And to be honest in their forums it can be a bit of a challenge to actually find peeps that are talking about 3D graphics or software, discussing the weather seems quite popular there for some reason, or threads bashing their competitors are also quite popular running into the hundreds of pages long. And I know you're saying most Poser users have abandoned pre-made content in favour of becoming their own one stop independent content developers, which means stores are now irrelevant to the Poser community. At least that is what we are told by some very vocal advocates of the tinker anti click and render groups. In my own experience the lack of widely supported content is one of the biggest factors contracting the Poser community and is a huge challenge for new adopters of the software alongside those long term users who have established workflows that do not allow hours just to get a dynamic clothing item to sit right on a figure. For myself and many other content creators this idea being pushed by some, that content development is no longer needed, is a huge red flag and shows not just a slowing in Poser platform development itself but a contraction in the amount of Poser users in general. A thriving community of any kind generally will show broad diversity and it's a very worrying sign if the only peeps left in the Poser community are those that just like to tinker with nuts and bolts of the app.

Tbh I am still not sure how it serves the broader Poser community to write off Renderosity or discourage use of it's Poser forums. Renderosity has one of the largest offerings of Poser FreeStuff available anywhere on the web and one of the largest legacy and modern Poser paid content offerings of any the Poser content stores. Renderosity also sends targeted marketing emails with offers on Poser software frequently to a database of tens of thousands of potential Poser customers. If you take a look, for example, at the Poser 11 product page here it has close to 5000 views with the Smith Micro store page at Renderosity close to 70,000 views. Renderosity does nothing but complement Smith Micro and the broader Poser community in many aspects. Also take a look at today's what's new product page their are many new products for Poser including props and stand alone figures, which I would think many Poser users would love to add to their library or are you just saying those vendors are wasting their time creating that kind of content these days? For those advocating that Renderosity is no longer relevant to the Poser community, I would really like to be able to understand how they think that is helping SM or the Poser community into a brighter future? Or are they just pushing their own grudges and gripes onto a segment of the community that has supported Poser and the Poser community for 20+ years, well before Victoria 4 was released.

I honestly cannot see where either Hivewire3D, CGbytes or the official Smith Micro forums are growing the Poser user base. Figure wise Project E has been somewhat of a flop from what I can tell, with maybe one or two active threads regarding Project E across the entire sphere and just 14 ratings on the figure base itself. The amount of people developing or actively using Project E is at at best in the double digits which is very worrying sign considering the hype before it's release. But Evo has always stated that Project E wasn't designed for the mass market but for what he wanted in a figure for his use in comics and erotic art, so maybe it can be considered a success when judged against it's creators idea of what it should be. Paul and Pauline are barely worth mentioning. It's also no coincidence that the top thread on the SM forums is "Are we being left behind?" And it's no surprise to see once again someone being told after raising their own issues that they have with Poser, that their concerns are not valid and that they are the problem not Poser itself. I just wish peeps would stop pushing Poser into a niche that is based around what they think Poser is or should be, it's like some member of the Poser community are clutching at it so tightly in an effort to protect it, that they are in fact just suffocating it. Which is pretty sad to see tbh... Please just let Poser and the Poser community breath a bit, and maybe it might start showing some signs of returning to good health.

"The biggest difference between the current DAZ figures and other figures is that the DAZ figures have an entire cottage industry built around fixing the flaws of the product."

It speaks volumes that " an entire cottage industry" of coders and script writers would consider the Daz figures to have enough viability to be worth their time to fix/enhance/support with commercial add on products.

No one, outside of the poser community, is bothering to create dedicated solutions to bring the Poser native figures into their programs for animation or even Fix long standing problems of the application itself such as the non-collasping scene hierarchy or the broken IK system.

SM could stay with the current model and go down the "buy me an save money" approach used by zbrush - that would mean focusing on functionality and not figures.

Poser is a "Figure Design and Rendering" program Any focus on improving functionality should ultimately result in a better user experience regarding the figures.. yes??

I am given to understand that there were many new enhancments to poser 11 that added functionality to the native figures. However people largely ignored these new figure specific features because of their low opinion of the appearance of the native figures and their sad , unwaivering devotion to an 11 year old Daz "Golem"(V4).

[ssgbryan]

The biggest difference between the current DAZ figures and other figures is that the DAZ figures have an entire cottage industry built around fixing the flaws of the product.

Ah here we go. something SM urgently needs to fix.

wolf359 posted at 9:22AM Tue, 19 June 2018 - #4332055

No one, outside of the poser community, is bothering to create dedicated solutions to bring the Poser native figures into their programs for animation or even Fix long standing problems of the application itself such as the non-collasping scene hierarchy or the broken IK system.

I am given to understand that there were many new enhancments to poser 11 that added functionality to the native figures. However people largely ignored these new figure specific features because of their low opinion of the appearance of the native figures and their sad , unwaivering devotion to an 11 year old Daz "Golem"(V4).

Last time I checked we had a number of tools to move Poser content to other packages - I don’t do animation, but I’ve been using Poser figures in Vue for over a decade. I don’t use the other plugins, since I don’t own the other packages.

Quick question - how extensive is FBX import and export for animation? Because Poser can do that now.

The new design team has gotten the message on both the annoying heiarchey issues, the need to rework the UI for both the hair and cloth room, and the IK issues as well.

There are a large number of improvements and new features in Poser 11.

I understand that it is an article of faith around here that no one uses any post Poser 4 feature, but there isn’t a lick of evidence that is true. Over 90% of us here are on Poser 9 or later. The only folks that don’t seem to be moving forward are the vendors. I should NOT be dealing with material.pz2s in 2018.

Elsewhere, we are talking about how to leverage these new features. Here, not so much, which is why I advocate visiting the other forums - the more advanced folks aren’t here anymore.

At a higher level, I really don’t think many folks here get Poser is about the tools, not the figures. I don’t have to replace my figures to get new tech, I can simply add it to my figure of choice. As much as I prefer newer figures, legacy figures (as far back as V1/M1) still make up a large portion of what I use. I need more than early 20 something Caucasians, so limiting myself to 1 or 2 figures is a non-starter for me. Over 95% of characters made are early 20’s Caucasians. It went from annoying to creepy a long, long time ago.

Back on topic....

Wanna stick a legacy figure. No problem, Poser has the tools that will upgrade that legacy figure, which is what a lot of folks do. Most of my legacy figures are weight-mapped, subdivided, and I am adding facial bone equivalents (I’m amused that my g1,2,& 3 golums have them.)

Like that cool uniform for V4, but need it for all your characters? 60 seconds in the fitting room and every character has access to every other characters wardrobe.

I can move hair, clothes, shoes, and skin textures between most of my figures.

"At a higher level, I really don’t think many folks here get Poser is about the tools, not the figures. I don’t have to replace my figures to get new tech, I can simply add it to my figure of choice. As much as I prefer newer figures, legacy figures (as far back as V1/M1) still make up a large portion of what I use. I need more than early 20 something Caucasians, so limiting myself to 1 or 2 figures is a non-starter for me. Over 95% of characters made are early 20’s Caucasians. It went from annoying to creepy a long, long time ago."

Interesting concept, and one I think the Poser "old guard", or should I say the current body of **vocal **users, seems to subscribe to. But, IMHO, this is not the same philosophy many users, and certainly many ex users subscribe too, including me. Now, I've always had a love/hate relationship with Poser. because I've always seen the potential that it has never quite lived up to. I'm still very interested in Poser, would like to see it succeed, and keep trying to find a valid reason to upgrade to Poser 11, but unfortunately it hasn't happened yet (I'm a lurker on the Poser forums here and else where a lot, but seldom offer and opinions as I know they are not welcome since I use other software). But, unlike the above sentiment, I also want software that has a viable, top quality, modern figure to use, along with features in the software that make me say "wow, that is awesome and innovative, this fits my needs better than anything else on the market". Unfortunately, Poser 11 fell short of that mark, and felt like it was rushed to market before it was really ready (no, I'm not going to pay to be a beta tester for software that is playing catch up and doesn't seem to have a clear direction ... just my opinion).

From images and comments posted in the forums, Superfly looks to be less than super. I want to use a PBR render engine with an interactive view-port, because they work better for me. With only a handful of users posting awesome Superfly images (and most other images not even living up to to good Firefly renders), it doesn't seem as if it is very easy to get great results from (or most image posters don't have a clue how to use it, which is equally disconcerting). Now, as an owner of Octane Render, I could purchase the Poser plugin at a decent price, but I have to ask myself what would that give me that DS and Carrara don't. Yes, there are a few nice features in Poser, but I have Poser Pro 2014 (and every version back to Poser 2), so no real need to invest in something that I won't use very often (if ever) when I already have the needed tool set(s). Yes, DS is missing bullet physics and dynamic hair, but if I need those I have Carrara or PP2014 (but there is no simple great alternative to the morph brush).

Dawn is a great figure, and has decent support, but to be honest, in my opinion, for me, she wouldn't be a full replacement for the Genesis figures I have. Again, this is my own opinion, but the other figure options available simply don't do anything for me. Project E looked very promising, and Ero did a great job on her, but she has already lost so much traction I doubt she will be a viable alternative :( . So even though in the sentiment quoted above, there seems to be a belief that the figures don't matter, for me, as an ex Poser user, that simply isn't true.

IMHO, the release of Pauline with Poser 11 was a negative, not a positive. Again, many Poser users were hoping that SM finally got it, and were going to release a great base figure with P11. I know I was excited about Poser finally having a top quality base figure. That excitement turned to disappointment very quickly as I read about all the issues she had, and realized that she would never compete with Genesis figures (i.e. great content and support).

So the two things I was most hoping for with P11, professional PBR integration, and either Genesis support or an equivalent included figure from SM, were both disappointments. Thus, I have not upgraded, and money that would have gone to the upgrade, went else where. The other tech in Poser is important to me, but there was little new tech in P11 that I needed, and chose to focus more on DS (even at the expense of using Carrara less - because Poser certainly wouldn't be able to fill that void, so I needed to learn how to do things better in DS).

Having a well supported, modern tech and quality figure is important to me (and other users too, judging by the number of long time Poser users now posting DS images in the galleries). Knowing that there will be vendor support to provide top quality figures, textures, and make improvements to the base figure is important to me. Being able to easily make great images (at least great to me) with an interactive PBR interface is important to me. Iray isn't perfect, and is lacking many features that Cycles or Octane Render have, but since I already own the DS and Carrara plugins for Octane, I can duplicate virtually every feature in P11 with my existing tool set.

So back to the subject about Poser Development being dead, I certainly hope it isn't, and all sign's seem to indicate it is still in active development. I'm hoping the next version of Poser will be a must have, with some great new and amazing features, figures, and a truly super.Superfly!!

At a higher level, I really don’t think many folks here get Poser is about the tools, not the figures.

Please reconcile your claim with what SmithMicro Says poser is about

From the Smith Micro website:

**"Discover the Art of the Human Form with Poser

With Poser, human and animal models are prepared for you to start designing and posing immediately. Figures are pre-rigged so artists can click-and-drag to pose body parts, sculpt faces, or create ethnic varieties. Thousands of poses, morphs, clothing, hair, materials, and accessories are included.......

Figure Design Poser makes working with the human form easily accessible with an intuitive user interface. Human and animal models are included for you to start designing and posing immediately. Click-and-drag to sculpt faces, pose body parts, or create various ethnic varieties. For those who require finer control; full body morphs, facial expression morphs, and bone rigging are available for any figure. All features and models are provided in a natural 3D environment for realistic depth, lighting and shadowing on any figure in any pose. Quickly and easily create shape variations with Poser’s brush based morphing tools" **

You appear to be the only poser user in the entire universe, who actually believes that Posers primary focus is not figures.

don’t have to replace my figures to get new tech, I can simply add it to my figure of choice. As much as I prefer newer figures, legacy figures (as far back as V1/M1) still make up a large portion of what i use.

That is great for you..I suppose however the self contradictory nature of your public statements is laid bare when on the one hand you harshly criticise the poser vendors for being "stuck in 2007"

while at the same time advocating that Poser users need to learn to recycle 11-15 year old figures instead of demanding that the very company, I quoted above, provide them with attractive MODERN figures.

I may be the only one at ‘Rosity that values the tools, but then I also moved beyond rank beginner too.

It isn’t contradictory to point out to a vendor making a product for Dawn (a figure that in Poser only runs in Version 9 [now 10]) that following a Poser 6 workflow and materials isn’t actually a selling point. Her response? “I don’t have time to learn Poser 9.” I’ll let you guess how well that product sold.

In 2018, I calculate how much work I have to do to make a product Poser 9 compatible before I buy it. The more work I have to do, the cheaper it has to be. Let the Luddites work the conversion utilities.

Figures are just one part of it.

BTW, I said IF you want to use a legacy figure, not that one HAD to. If you want to use a legacy figure, Poser has tools available to update it. (My Legacy figures are mostly weight-mapped, take advantage of subdivision when necessary, and I am adding facial and body chips to them, just like Paul & Pauline. The V4 from 2007 is vastly different than an upgraded version in 2018.) If you want to use a DAZ golum in Poser, tools are available so you can. If you want to import characters from games, Poser has that FBX tool to import and export it.

All of these features came about due to vendor intransigence. So, in one sense, I am thankful - if it wasn’t for their hellbent rejection of any figure not named V4, we probably wouldn’t have gotten those tools.

If Vendors only want to make content for M4/V4, I don’t care - I have Poser Pro 11. Everything is interchangeable - clothing, hair, shoes, even skin textures. I prefer new content, IF it is better that what has come before, but if it isn’t, I don’t buy it. My V4 clothing runtime alone is approaching 100Gb, but unlike a g8 runtime, it isn’t full of 500+Mb bikinis.

Poser is about leveraging what you own, not constantly purchasing the same products over and over.

If you had been perusing the SM forums, you would know from the folks that made the figures that they were always a last minute thing added to the product, SM marketing speak aside. Speaking of figures.....

Define “attractive”. I don’t care what the base mesh looks like - it is the base mesh, nothing more.

I don’t consider ANY of the g figures attractive. With their freak show proportions, heights, and most “Non-Caucasians” characters Aryanized, I find them to be creepy. They are vastly limited in both character content and clothing content (by several orders of magnitude, even after all this time).

I have a lot of attractive characters for almost all of my figures (Sorry Rikishi).

But then, I don’t limit myself to a single mesh. Nor do I limit myself to single image pinup art.

I tell stories. My stories have lots of people, all ages, races, and genders. That is impossible if one restricts themselves to one mesh.

For example - in my Star Trek (TOS) stories, so far, I have over 150 reoccurring characters (I’ll reach four figures before I am done) - good luck doing that with only 1 mesh.

I don’t have ships full of 6 foot 20-somethings Caucasians running it. Not to mention that they don’t all look like they are very closely related to each other.

Vickys (1-6), intermingle with Jessi, and Antonia. Vincent Parkers are dating Miki (1-4), while Mariko is wondering what she has to do to get Simon to notice her. My aliens are mostly genesis 1 figures and my minors are a mix of Luke, Laura, Julie, Justin, Josie, Jayden, and poor Brodie. All of them wearing clothing, hair, shoes, and in some cases, skin textures, that were never made for for them.

Poser 1 was designed for single image stills. That doesn’t mean we have to stay there 25 years later.

....Define “attractive"...... A bowl of chocolate ice cream with Oreos in it. When I see that it's like..come here you sexy beast you belong to me. Right..right? Anyone? Or is it just me ?

TheDarkerSideOfArt posted at 3:00PM Wed, 20 June 2018 - #4332131

....Define “attractive"...... A bowl of chocolate ice cream with Oreos in it. When I see that it's like..come here you sexy beast you belong to me. Right..right? Anyone? Or is it just me ?

Don’t worry, we won’t judge ?

"My V4 clothing runtime alone is approaching 100Gb, but unlike a g8 runtime, it isn’t full of 500+Mb bikinis."

Interesting notion, but given my experience (i.e. my own purchases), even those of us that do like to do pin-up renders, only a handful of Bikinis is more than enough, since I can easily put every bikini from V3/A3 up to G8 on any genesis figure I own. I have ~10 bikinis for Genesis 1-8. Some I got simply because I needed to complete some insane deal I was offered, and they were the best option, not because I needed another bikini (thoogh some were because I wanted that style too). I will grant you however, you do have a rather large V4 runtime.

"Poser is about leveraging what you own, not constantly purchasing the same products over and over."

True, but keep in mind, the same can be said for the Genesis line and DS. People who want to move beyond "load, pose, render" have the option to create their own clones of external figures to use that content on Genesis (which could then be used in Poser too). So for tinkerers, the options are quite impressive.

"I don’t consider ANY of the g figures attractive. With their freak show proportions, heights, and most “Non-Caucasians” characters Aryanized, I find them to be creepy. They are vastly limited in both character content and clothing content (by several orders of magnitude, even after all this time)."

Another interesting comment, given you are someone who has "moved beyond rank beginner too". Surely you know about the included morphs to change height, arm length, leg length, head size,scale, etc. to make any of the Genesis figures just about any size and proportion you want?? Of course if you want even more options, you can get add on morph packages, or create your own morphs in an external modeling software (Blacksmith3D, sold here, is an excellent option for that). As far as non-Caucasian characters being "aryanized", that is obviously a mater of opinion, one that I do disagree with. Though there are an abundance of Caucasian figures, there are also several very good characters to represent other ethnicity's that IMHO are very well done like Uchenna for Genesis 8 Female (promo image below), as we as some very good ethnic morph sets and full ethnic character sets (IIRC, there are some great options here at Rendo).

But, I understand where you are coming from, and your opinions are biased in that direction. You seem to have all the content you need, and the ability to mix and match what you have. Given the type of comic art you do, you aren't really interested in any sort of PBR rendering, as it doesn't really add to your stories. It seems as if you are also very interested in "tinkering" in Poser to get what you want from it. This is all great, and good on you for doing so, it should provide inspiration for others with similar interests.

But, as Wolf noted in is post, this is not the expressed specific intent of Poser from what SM has noted in their own marketing materials, and from what it appears was the primary draw for users to Poser for many years. IMHO, the rendering of easy to use pre-made content was what made poser popular, and in this area it has fallen behind other options, especially in the the ease of getting great quality images with high quality figures. For those of use that use(ed) Poser for this purpose, it does seem to be falling behind. Yes, I like to do pin-ups, female fantasy warriors, fantasy sci-fi, etc. (a card carrying member of the skimp-wear society), and renders featuring cute females (a real fan of The Girl too). Soooo, my desires for Poser are much different than yours, but I would postulate that Poser has lost significant numbers in it's user base simply because it has fallen behind in the specific things that I like(d) to do with it. I may be wrong, because this is all opinion and conjecture, but it does seem to be true based on what I see in the market places and the galleries.

The problem is, if SM caters to the "tinkering" crowd (I don't mean this in a bad way, as I am into tinkering as well), and not the "render pretty pictures easily" crowd (and I would say, IMHO P11 was a tinkerers update, not a pretty picture makers update), then they will be in more direct competition with Blender, Maya, iClone, Unreal, Unity, etc. I had hoped that at some point Poser might be a replacement for Carrara, but I doubt now that will ever happen. Hopefully, with the next upgrade SM will fully understand who there user base will be, and how to attract and grow that user base. I also hope that my interests will match with where SM decides to take Poser.

I dont don’t consider ANY of the g figures attractive. With their freak Aryanized, I find them to be creepy. t>hey are vastly limited in both character content and clothing content (by several orders of magnitude, even after all this time).

I have a lot of attractive characters for almost all of my figures.

Well of course "attractive" is a subjective term..obviously.

This Picture is the result of all of your manual force fitting Old content between old figures..yes??

The Classic "Shrink wrapped" look of poser clothing from the last century. No wrinkle morphs at the waist,knees or elbows. the puffy ,rounded shoulders

But that is not your fault because you are not a clothing content creator but you have the "tools" to salvage old content made by others in the past. ..in 60 seconds or less,

But alas you have no abilty to create, bespoke one off clothing ,for a specific render or project, only scavenge from the digital rubbish bin .

If this is the quality of clothing content that works for your stories. that is perfectly fine...to each his own art

Your point is proven.

Poser11 has "tools" to salvage vestigial content long past its market life.

But you need to understand that for a content market to grow there needs to be Vendors making &selling new fresh new content that adheres to todays quality standards.

Now if you really wish to liberate yourself from Digital dumpster diving ,My advice is to learn to model as I have.

I Needed a "near future" Doctors outfit for My "Golem 2" Female for an upcoming Med bay scene in an animated film project of mine.

I wanted something simlilar to the "Dr Katherine Hasley" outfits from the Xbox HALO video game lore.

About three hours to create the oufit from my base development mesh that I have for all of the Daz "golems"

3 Seconds to export the mesh from C4D to Daz studio and about 5 seconds to mouse click three choices with the Autorigging utility.

My digital actor is based on Isreali Actress Ayalet Azure (Via the third party Face gen artist pro) You know.. those pesky "cottage industrialist supporting my Daz "golems"

Here she is as adult and as a child Via Zevo's "youth Morph" product to demonstrate the immediate versatility available for my unique custom, bespoke ,one off clothing content at the mere moving of a slider

I stand completely liberated from the Expensvie Daz content Hamster wheel or from scavenging poorly constructed, Old content from the crumbling caves of the past

Her scene is rendering in C4D as I write this post.

life is good :-)

In recent years the old high street retail sector has been moving online, this could be seen as them just catching up with what we have been doing here for the past twenty years but where they are ahead is in exploiting smartphone technology. Smartphones have a large user base but do not have the power to render scenes. They could handle basic scene composition and offload the rendering to back end cloud like AWS. This would allow the move to a browser based online subscription service like Amazon Prime where there is regular content available built in and extra costs for perceived enhanced products - ie a combined subscription and micro transaction model. Having the entire product online will allow access to the AR and VR markets if they develop providing content makers access to new users. I don't think the bods at SM and DAZ will be concerned with figure development, they will be more interested in how to jump from a shrinking PC/Mac market to the developing smartphone area.

The mention of FBX support is an interesting point, that's what ended it with Poser for me.

DAZ introduced it with DS4.0, it was enough for my needs, to get figures with basic textures and rigging into C4D.

(There's a six month window here when DAZ tried charging for DS so they lost me for those 6 months)

... but even with that hiatus, SM made me wait about a year for FBX to arrive with Poser Game Dev and more than 18 months for Poser 11.

By the time Poser got the functionality there was no incentive to pay for something I already had with a free utility.

Poser was reduced to just another runtime in DS with occasional hopeful visits to the forums.

(I think I've got those timings right, but they're only from memory!)

Wolf359 - A large portion of that golum content IS recycled content. Mostly V4 or earlier g content (characters, clothing, hair, and shoes) but some g8 content (shoes) I have seen at Daz were originally made for P6 Jessi and Miki 1 (I know this because I bought them here at ‘Rosity ?.).

Another issue is the fact that with most vendors, if you buy 2 characters from a vendor, you own all of their characters - they use the exact same skin textures for all of their characters, and quite frankly, I can spin a dial just as well as they can.

Maybe you (and the other g users) don’t mind paying for the same content every 24 months or so, but I do - like the rest of the g series, it is a TCO fail unless you get it during a 70% off sale. In fact, after I post this, I am off to Daz to pick up some products for Brodie 6. They are worth $5.39, but not $17.95.

Pointing out that most of the g1 content was recycled V4 content got me permabanned in the Daz forums (30 days later Daz built a sale around that fact. Typical Daz.).

Speaking of Daz, has anyone noticed that almost all of the g1 & g2 content suddenly aquired Poser Companion Files? It would have been nice if ANY of them were put in the correct sub folder, but that would require attention to detail, and that simply isn’t part of their DNA. It’s a start though, and a complete 180 from their original stance.

BTW, I can (and do when necessary) create my own content. I have both the software (Hexagon, Blender, and Zbrush), and the skills to do so. For the most part however, it isn’t a good use of my time for clothing (props and sets are a different matter - I kitbash everything). In the three hours you spent modeling one outfit, I can retexture four outfits and run them through the fitting room for use with multiple meshes.

Horses for courses.