I have been trying to d/l some items and kept getting a time-out. When I asked about it I'm told I'm d/l at the wrong time of day. Now I go to the site and what do I see? A note that basically says don't d/l everything at once give others a chance, it will still be here. Well, not if your subscription runs out while you are trying to d/l stuff. If you charge for a d/l site guys/gals, get your server together so your customers can get the d/l before their sub runs out. I am on fast dsl, and I have not had this problem with other sites, so don't tell me to talk to my isp. Frustrating, but I won't worry about it since I won't be renewing. Marque

Here is what it says "Don't forget that after we update the subscription site there are many, many people trying to download. It may temporarily slow down (no more than 24 hours on average) the site. So after an update please try to not download everything at once and give everyone a chance to get the content. We promise it isn't going anywhere. Thanks!" Bad news if you are paying to be there. It may be there but I won't. Marque

Yes Marque it is best to wait a day or two because as soon as the update has been announced then everyone and their great grandmother try to download so I usually DL either late at night, early in the morning or I give it a few days but to not renew my subscription??? Some of the best stuff in the Poser world Remember Patience is a virtue especially at PWFW

To bad that you have such trouble. I can't complain about their download speed. But I'm in Germany and download at a time when the whole US is comfortable asleep.

But maybe I won't renew my Renderosity subscribtion, this site is f***ing slow.

Marque we seem to have had this conversation before in another thread, what does worry me though is you seem quite happy to post this to the thousands at Renderosity but never mail me about the problem nor reply to me in the previous thread. There has just been an update and like the message says it gets clogged then because everyone is dloading, and, yes you pay Marque, but its simple if we double the bandwidth we have to double the cost of joining, T1's cost $12000 a year to run, and trust me we add them WHEN EVER we can........Steve

As for my own two pence... I'm sorry but we are not responsible for individual cases like yours (majority doesn't share them) and no matter how unproffesional it may sound..you ARE a big whinner and someone who just never pays attention to what he reads as he should! You simply choose to ignore the fact that other members don't have the same problems YOU have at all times and just prefer to put the blame on us! Read all the previous threads you've started Marque on this same subject..you'll see what I mean! Maybe PWFW is just not cut for you after all!! Because Marque.. if you just spared a couple of minutes to think about HOW much worth's you get each time with your subscription fee, which would be a fragment of the time you spend enjoying sooo much complaining... you might see the true balance of the scales! Rena

Funny that Marque, the note I recall being posted was somewhat more involved than that and Allen went some way to explaining some of the problems they were having. I guess you must have missed that huh?

Oh good, a new update! Thanks. :-)

I have not only emailed the person who I thought ran it, Alan Harkelrod or what ever his name is...but I have called as well...and was told to choose a different time to d/l. I am up most of the night, and have tried at ALL times of the day and night. I am a female Petunia, not a male thank you. And I am not out to cause hurt to anyone, just frustrated that emails and phone calls don't do any good and I feel I wasted my money. I took that off the site itself this morning Questor. I'm not telling anyone else not to subscribe, and I probably shouldn't have posted it here, was just frustrated that I paid for something and was not able to get it. Marque

And if I'm the only one having this problem why would there be something posted on the site about it? Strange, that you would post that just for me? You say I'm someone who wants to hurt Poserworld, but I see your comments about me being a whiner more of an attack, and I'm sorry you feel that way. Marque

Erm, at the risk of pointing out the blindingly obvious, I don't think anyone has ever said it is just you. Rena and Steve have never to my knowledge used less than plural when describing your situation and the "majority" have no problems. Some people find different times to be better. One or two have what seems like regular problems like one chap in France who gets a corrupted file now and again for no apparent reason. So no Marque you aren't unique, nobody said you were. The post from Allen was put into the forums at my request to Allen when I explained the problems you were having. I presume Steve or Rena had also talked to him about this. As to where or when you took that information, there is a detailed post from Allen regarding Poserworld and it's current condition. This includes information that I thought was quite valid considering your "continual" problem and what is happening with Poserworld servers and lines in the near future. Perhaps quoting this upgrade information as well as your complaint would have softened the "I'm not happy because" with a "but..." Hmm? Never mind. You will do what you want, I have no doubt of that, but in your anger you missed some important information that may well have been extremely relevant to your situation. Never mind though, neh? :)

Well, I for myself have subscribed recently. I had problems with the downloads shortly after the update, but two day later, the download speed was very good. I got most of the clothes, some szenes and all went smoothly down the wire. I have DSL, but I do not use any mass downloader and I never load more then two pieces at a time as an absolute maximum. No idea where your problems come from, Marque, but the site is not too slow.

I have been staying away from the forums here lately, but in defense of PWFW for any potential members that read this and might not subscribe because of it, I have never had any problem. And I DID renew my subscription. I am on a measly dial-up due to living in the middle of nowhere, and although the site has been slow, I have not had a problem downloading anything. The only thing I don't like is having to put my uname/pass in all the time, but like I said, I am on a dial up and some of the files are large, and they are only trying to be secure. The money I spent on my original subscription and my renewal has been well worth it. Just my $.02 Angela

I am new to PoserWorld Paid...and I have been very happy with them. I have dsl and downloads happen before I know it. Marque,what service provider are you using? If it's AOL you might want to use the Windows explorer that came with windows once you are connected and download from explorer and not aol.

I have to stick up for Rena and Steve here. I downloaded the entire update in less than a half hour. I have a DSL line and I don't use any prohibited downloading utilities. Sure I have a file or two hang up every once in a while, but I just click on it again and it usually downloads fine on the second try. I can understand the frustration some people must feel, but it aint everyone by a long shot. No doubt that everything downloads faster a day or two after the updates come out, sometime I wait but I usually get them right away. No problems here, Poserworld is one of the best deals on the web IMHO.

Hmph... I must say I've never had much trouble with download speeds, even when I was on dial-up. The one time a d/l was slow I checked here and found that they'd just announced an update. So I waited and got the file the next day. No problem.

I have an incrediably slow DSL line -- how slow? I never could download PSP 7, even breaking up the DLs--and I think I've had one timeout at PWFW. That's all. Yeah, it takes awhile, I expect that now. But sometimes I can download right away. If you have slow connections, then you budget your time with PWFW. That's all. Maybe one thing gets downloaded at a time. It's tough when the updates are huge like the last one. I don't think I ever got everything from that. But it's only tough on instant gratification. I've downloaded practically the whole site and I joined--when?-- about 4 months ago. Where I have probs is with the freebies-- sometimes I miss them-- sob, I missed the Andalucian dress. I think the decision whether one wants to budget their time, is the important decision to make in whether to continue a subscription to PWFW. And, yeah, it nowhere near as slow as Renderocity showing one picture in the galleries. Emily

You can count me as another happy subscriber and I will definitely be renewing. I have no problems whatsoever with downloading anything from the site. Even if I should incur some in the future, I feel the products available at this site far outweigh any slight inconvenience in being unable to download instantaneously. Hats off to Steve and Rena for the tremendous job they do in providing fresh content on a very regular basis =)

I have regular internet telephone line and 56 k modem .After one year,i can say that within the week after updates i have always dloaded the items i want(and we have full choice)without problem.Big file just demand patience:one file after another.I am a satisfacted user and yesterday i renew my suscription.Thanks

And I am not out to cause hurt to anyone, just frustrated that emails and phone calls don't do any good and I feel I wasted my money.<< Well, you might not have meant to cause hurt, but you did. A statment like that spewed forth to thousands of readers who don't know you might think twice before they subscribe. And they would be missing out on a wonderful service for a great price. I might ask why you might not have posted this in the forums over at Poserworld or emailed Steve and Rena first, instead of Allen, since it would be Steve and Rena that would be responding to any public posting and not Allen. Apparently, Steve and Rena did NOT receive anything from you. Marque, it's not sporting that you brought a problem that you are having with another site over here. It should have remained at Poserworld. That is one of the reasons that they have forums for subscribers I suspect, so we can vent and get in touch with Rena and Steve...AFTER we have tried the "correct" avenues in trying to resolve the problem with them. Bad form, I must say. As far as wasting your money...how can you sit there and make such a statement just because you could not get one upload exactly when you wanted it?? Does that mean that all of the other product that you have received since your tenure as a subscriber wasn't worth at THE VERY LEAST the amount of your subscription? In closing I will say that I'm on cable modem...I've not had any problems getting any files as of yet, and I've been a subscriber for two years now. If it's slow and I don't have time then I just wait until later. It's not any different then going to any other online store and trying to download something...sometimes they are slow. Sometimes the whole freakin' net is so slow that I sit and scream at my computer. Steve and Rena are doing the best they can as fast as they can...connections are expensive...they do have to eat you know. Consider the alternative...if they weren't here, just how much would you be spending on separate items in the marketplace???? And the product just keeps getting better and better :) I'm done, off my soapbox. Thanks for listening. Pendy

I have greatly enjoyed my poserworld sub. The site can be a bit slow now and then. But the content is so worth maybe having to come back a little later (thoughs its rarely that bad)

My sub is about up in a day or two... Can someone lend me $50 so I can renew???? Hey..Steve and Rena...spot me a couple of days til the 10th...its payday then.... As far as downloading--I'm on cable--no problems...it was very slow today, however...4k dl speed..but the update happened...unfortunately, I'll be in the same boat as Marque...my sub will run out before I can download the newest stuff.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=679766

Quoting myself, here; "I remember the subscription preview site being pretty slow when I first checked out PoserWorld, even on DSL. What sold me was the incredible content available to members. Once I subscribed, I was delighted with the speed increase on the actual member's site. As their membership has grown, loading times can drag quite a bit right after an update announcement, but the pages still load in 4-12 seconds (that can SEEM like a long time, but really isn't). Downloading files can drag considerably during those periods, however, mainly because Steve & Rena really don't stint their members on content, and some of the downloads are pretty hefty. I've come to put off downloads until 2:00 am or later, Calif time, and find they go pretty speedily then. Marque, I'm sorry to hear about your connection speed. There are sites that I visit that seem to be beyond some kind of bandwidth "bottleneck" as if some leg of data between us were limited to a slower ldata link. These sites (mostly tech support sites for long-existing companies, it seems) can drive me up the wall, so I can sincerely empathize with your frustration. I can only say that I consider the content at PWFW is good enough that I'd put up with slower download times by a factor of four or even eight times longer and still feel the lifetime membership I bought to be an excellent investment. Since I've gotten Win-XP, I find I can have 2 to 15 IE6 windows open at a time, so I can keep pages loading while I read others. I can normally download two files at a time, or just one if I'm cruising other pages, so I usually just browse the forums while downloading individual files from separate windows. I do agree with moenchen, though, that a "What's New" page with links to all the download pages for the latest update would be a WONDERFUL convenience." Jerry B leather-guy ...Just my 2 cents worth, opposing opinions expected and encouraged...

I think Rena has been under a lot of pressure--with the debate and withdrawal on the Poser list, then the hit here concerning PWFW...then this thread, plus a few others.... maybe its all catching up.... Perhaps its more appropriate, however, for folks unhappy with a service to just bow out...it's your choice...although its a tool for prospective customers to hear all sides and feelings towards pay sites. One thing I've noticed a lot on the internet, the complainers get more air time than the satisfied folks...

Rena...I'm renewing when mine runs out g I just LOVE to hear your voice! LMAO

Excuse me again guys, but customer service does NOT mean being a door mat for any "customer" who wishes to spew. As far as I'm concerned, once someone opens up their mouth they're entitled to enjoy the consequences of same...customer or not.

I really didn't consider what I said "spewing", I was upset because I have not been able do download a lot of the stuff from the site. I never said I didn't like the stuff there, and I believe I have subscribed 3 times so far. Some of you are acting like I came in and said horrible things, re-read the post, what I said was in no way as bad as you make it out to be. I did state that I shouldn't have mentioned it here but that didn't seem to stop anyone from jumping on me did it? I had no idea Rena was under any pressure, didn't mean to stress her out. I have seen a few of the posters here say some really terrible things about other sites, and yet they are allowed to voice their opinions, guess I'm not. I apologise to anyone I may have upset with this thread, and that is the end of it. Marque

Marque, it wasn't directed at you, it was directed at individuals (and we all know some) who use "customer service" as an excuse to harass, humiliate and embarass those in "service" positions. I've dealt with the public for more years than I care to remember. Most customers are understanding, fair individuals. But there are always those who think that because they're spending a few dollars it gives them the right to intimidate and manipulate the situation and the "service" personnel. It does not. I admire most of the merchants here and elsewhere, if it were me, there'd be at least one "customer" body drawing flies g One or two more "Rena's" giving them back their own would probably even up the score a little. It just hit a nerve is all, didn't mean for you to think it was directed at you, it wasn't.

I have a problem with Poserworld to... I'm trying to decide if I should just bite the bullet and get the lifetime subscription and be done with it. I'm on cable only download one at a time, and I've not had a problem. I promised on the last threat I wouldn't download right away from now on... umm I lied I had to grab the dress for vic... I did good though only got that and I'll get the rest later. I've never had a download time out on me there. Slow maybe at peak times, but always comes through. And I agree. When you get boot tracks all over you it's time to say something.

A few thoughts... 1) customer service might not mean being a doormat, but calling a cusomer a "whiner" is pretty unprofessional. You can be polite and not be a doormat, that's part of being in business. 2) I am struck again that many folks in the Poser world are in an in between stage - not professional but not casual amatures. 3) Grab something called "flashget". Its a WAY cool tool that will make sure you get the file you want, no matter what. Why do it by hand when there ios a utility?

tbh If I were running a company or the manager of such..if I had a employee that called a customer a "whiner", they'd be walking to the door. It doesnt matter if they are stressed. It doesnt matter if they've had a bad day. Its not appropriate. No way. No shape. No how. Obviously there IS a problem. It may indeed not be the site, it may be a server between the site and the downloader. I myself experience this all the time with brycetech downloads. And my server is not the fault...for every time I can get the file perfectly when someone raises a question. I certainly dont tell a person to quit "whining". but, this whole thing raise an issue that I certainly hope the members here at r'osity will think about. THINK before you speak! Do not post things just cause you are pissed. In the past few weeks, Ive seen people point fingers, put others down, do businesses damage, do personal damage..and more. Just because they dont go get a chill pill or find a better wording for their problem. Step back and think before you blast someone with a problem. Its silly to cause damage to someone for nothing. Eventually, someone will to it to someone who will haul their ass into court for damages! again, a kind caution my friends... BT

Thanks for that post, Brycetech, I'm totally with you. I have often been quite surprised by the unbalanced accusations and hard language in this forum. Just because we are hiding from each other behind computer screens does not mean that we can behave like children here. I try to stay out of threads like this, but I must agree with Brycetech here: Read your posts one more time before you post them, folks, and think about how they might be percieved by others before hitting the Reply button. Marquee might be frustated with download speeds. It is perfectly OK to complain about them, but complains should be dealt with between the concerned parties. When a complaint is posted in a public forum like this, it is not a customer/supplier matter anymore. Then it's public debate. Even if Rena's comment might have been unappropriate in a conversation strictly between a customer and a supplier, I can understand her reply considering the fact that she sees her site being publically accused in a Forum read by thousands. I would have reacted too if it happened to me. But remember that a reply on a public accusation is as public as the accusation itself. And that the people reading it does not always have the full picture of what has happened. I'm sure Steve and Rena does their best to satisfy us all. I have never had any download problems and I'm of course sorry if some people have. You can't always blame the site for download problems, the Internet just don't work that way. If download problem occurs, do a trace route (type ("tracert" and the site name in a DOS window) to pin point the bottle neck. Very often you will find that it is not the site itself, but a node between you and them that are causing the problems. Only the downloader can check this, since the trace must be done from the downloaders end. Only after that you can start questioning the capacity of the site concerned. And if you are to do it publicly: behave. Kelderek (Customer Relationship Management Consultant by profession)

I waited to comment here, because I hate to get involved in things like this because I don't know many of you very well yet. i finally decided that unpopular or not, I'd put in a few words. I see a couple of you beat me to it. First off...one of the things I come here for is to gather info on poser stuff from ppl here who are a lot more advanced than myself. And one of those things is info concerning pay sites..good OR bad. I've been meaning to subscribe to PW..just haven't gotten to it. I probably still will. But C'MON gang...it's obvious from the different threads that have come through here that downloading from there is a problem. At least it's not as good as some other sites. Content may be great...but content doesn't matter if you can't get it. The thing that bothered me in this thread was that when things are rated for us here by the group, we can't expect everyone to agree, so it shouldn't get personal. I didn't care for the name-calling. To call Marque a "whiner" because she isn't happy with the service would be the same as calling all the sudden PW-supporter posters a buncha ass-kissers....uncalled for....just agree to disagree. Obviously Marque is having SOME kinda problem. I learned a long time ago that if I thought a paying customer was a "whiner", I just keep that to myself, share it with another employee maybe, and go on. But to say it right out.....can you say unemployment? And now that I'm owner, it's the same way for my guys, they know better. So I hope Marque(one of the few ppl I've actually gotten to know a lil here, and who was really nice to me) can just work it out with PW(who makes some of the neatest stuff around) and everyone can be friends again. Maybe they can extend her time till she gets her downloads, I dunno. But please...allow for varying views...I need 'em to decide where to spend my Poser-bucks....:) Beav

Marque, you have a really destructive streak in you if you start somthing like this AGAIN..... Sure, right after an update, it's slow, (surprise, surprise!) so I wait till the next day (I just D/Led all the new stuff in a few minutes) and then I get on with life. Try it, you'll like it. Steve and Rena - believe me, just about everyone likes PWFW the way it is. High speed lines are NOT the major issue, content is. I think $50 for a whole year is pretty reasonable, that's a LOT of models and stuff. :o] :] FishNose

Since it looks I am the one on the spot here, just because I was 100% honest stating what I trully think (and the very first to call it an unprofessional attitude - so READ that line of my post once again..) I think I have to clarify a few things once and for all... I don't chew up my words guys! I never did and never will.. especially after the same kind of thread having come up in this forum more than too many times started by Marque herself at all situations! I happen to be an export manager & deals negotiator in real life.. I know when it's time to go on smiling and keep on negotiating with a customer..and when it's time to QUIT smiling and don't give in further an inch at a debate! I do that for life and quite successfully.. and no Ron, no employer has ever showed me the door for this attitude so far! Being under stress "lately"...the understatement of the year! VL grin I am under too much stress at all times, just because once I set a goal I never stop till I achieve it, no matter what it takes out of me, how much hard work, personal negligance,lack of sleep or whatever else.. and I DID set as a goal once the subs site started - even stated so in public - to offer at PWFW the more I can at each time for the low subscription fee, so in the long run each file costs less than a few pennies or as close to a freebie as possible! To do that, I've almost given up my life (not to mention sleep) as it consumes much more than all the reasonable free time I can get, but I don't mind, complain or try to get out of it - it was my personal choice as I love Poser and what I do! So it's only human after all these efforts to react at least like I did, once something has been brought up too many times by the same person who obviously doesn't seem to appreciate a tiny bit any of the positive things before makig another identical post.. Like the fact that Allen is moving the server to his own house for God's sake, just to be able and respond instantly to each problem day and night! Yes Marque, this has been announced to the PWFW private forum and I was expecting you read it more often once as it's the appropriate place to deal with your problems.. Like the fact that every now and then a new T1 is added up to the site.. and we are not just happily enjoying & spending the income of subs as you presume, but spend it and use to improve at all times! Like the fact that each update includes a bundle! I could easily go ahead and post one or two files each time and just have everybody grab them with no downloading problem at all and be happy, while myself a lot less stressed and not overworked.. right? But I don't do that because I happen to value your subscription more than YOU do as it shows in the long run.. Like the fact that me and steve live a continent and an ocean far away from the server itself.. we don't have magic trics to pull off our hats or buttons to push and fix it all miraculously at the instance of your wish.. although we try our hardest even to pull off that at times! Like the fact that we do listen at all times and never ignore your contstructive feedback.. you asked for a what's new page only last week.. you got it on this update so you can access the download pages faster.. you asked for the clothes to be categorized by figure so you can find what you want easier .. .I DID that on my Xmas holiday even though it meant I had to redo most of the pages.. Like the fact that we've given you the choice to put up requests that suit your personal render needs and do our best to fulfill them in the long run.. most of the recent models are what YOU guys have asked for and many more are about to come as they're pending in my wips folder.. Like the fact that on top of all the above I have to fight "secret enemies" around this forum that try to throw us out from any place if possible, even though we never critisized, offended or dealt with how they carry out their own business, but obviously they do care a lot of how we carry out ours and somehow they consider it a threat.. You're all too much well aware on that, especially lately! Bottom line.. sometimes it helps to show a bit of appreciation to the good sides of things and not focus on just the bad ones, or at least try to deal with the bad ones in the proper place without hurting (willingly or unwilling) anybody! Meaning clearly Marque.. that if you are so unhappy with your PWFW subscription you could just go ahead and not renew as you plan instead of shouting it out to the world TOO many times, does it make any sense? I've been around the true business world for too long to detect some fancy suspitions at the back of my mind as to why and how this comes up by you, way too often lately.. please forgive me for that but as I said, I'm only human and one that uses her brain and witts to add up one and one equals two, quite a lot unfortunately! It's like second nature to me to think before hand, of the NOT obvious! I don't believe too much in coincedences, especially at this latest certain time following recent events in this forum... Finally, once I know that I do the best I can within my capabilities to offer my outmost.. I do believe I have earned the right to be totally honest as my own personal compensation! If this is considered and critised as an unprofessional atttitude by some.. well, I'd much rather not be a PRO than someone with double thoughts hidden inside! Rena

Hmm...I think I'll just go try out MY connection.... Good luck to all...:) Beav

I am sorry that you seem to be having so much difficulty with PWFW, Marque. Because we are dealing with the vagaries of webdom, and nothing is perfect, I don't mind a bit of a glitch here and there. I feel it's worth the occasional problem to have access to one of the best Poserstuff sources around. I'm very happy I joined and I intend to renew, perhaps for a lifetime sub, if I can afford it when this one is up. Steve and Rena are two of our best, and I'm sure they're doing their utmost to serve the community here. I know they don't need defending from me, but I just had to put my $.02 in this thread.

Well i'm sure glad i don't work in PR if thats how you treat your staff, wouldn't like the bill when one sues you for stress related pent up emotions :o)....we are not talking about a complaint, like a customer standing at the desk, this is more like a customer standing in the mall and shouting i won't buy from XXXX shop, in that case security would excort them out, but in this case everyone gathers around and talks about it :o)......well i've been sat here for 40 minutes composing this and not got very far so i think i better cut it short as i have models to make, and just say, Rena and I are humans we have emotions we don't see members as customers but friends, this may be wrong (or sound cheesy) but thats the way it is, its the personal involvment thats gives it the edge, other wise we may as well be sitting in a cubical rendering micro switches all day :o), Steve

Are you winding us up Ron or have you not read the first post???.....I'm lost as to what to say to be honest, if you can't see this for what it is then theres no point arguing it with you .....Steve

You really need to go back and read some of the posts where I have encouraged people to subscribe. I can not remember all of these "attacks" you say I've made against poserworld. I have mentioned the slow download speeds at the most twice, asking if there was a solution. I am not some secret enemy of poserworld, I hold no animosity to anyone here. I was upset and should not have posted here, I have said that before in this thread, and I even apologised openly in this thread, but the venom still flows. I feel sorry that you feel this way. Marque

I always say, "The customer is always right, unless they're wrong..." and believe me, that's plenty of times the case.

and as the download problems are simply a fact of a highly traffic-ed download site, I'd say blaming the hosts/creators is wrong. (Neverminding that in your particular case Marque, I have only seen complaining and admonishing from you in a few forums on Renderosity). That's not meant as an attack and it's not an extrapolation, that's just what I've seen so it's not my fault for mentioning it. Also, you have to wonder HONESTLY what the motive is to state the problem but then to huffily say 'well anyway, no matter, since I won't be re-subscribing.' That's a question for you Marque, to honestly explore because it's very passive aggressive and most of your posts turn around this way.

I don't say any of this because I think Marque or anyone is a bad person. Who am I? But clearly people don't know or have a skewed idea of how the internet works (in terms of bandwidth and bottlenecking) and it's this misinformation really that caused the frustration in the first place. But to turn the statement into a kind of "So There... nanny nanny nanny" just is whiny actually and speaks to some motive other than rectifying the situation.

Well, I personally don't mind slow download times on release days because I understand the realities of doing business on the Internet. Nothing says I have to get an item the day of release, and I am SURE that if I just HAD TO HAVE IT and couldn't get it that Steve and Rena would fix me up. I have never had any problems getting an issue resolved at Poserworld.

Why can't we all be friends? I love coming to this site because of the creative people and incredible products. The things you learn here and PoserWorld, RDNA, etc. you can't get support for any kind of product anywhere in the World. Think about this...if everyone said screw it...no more Poser stuff... were would you be...Fked...and if you don't have customers...were would you be ...Fked.. Bottom line working together makes more creativity!

Yes Ron..I can have a productive conversation. Like the fact that 1000 members adding just ONE request per person ends up to 1000 models.. you had two of your personal requests created so far as you've admited, and yet you still fell not well served but ignored. :o) You mention the fact that we broker in the marketplace.. have you noticed those are all items that have been made available to PWFW long time ago? NOTHING new or that we haven't shared with the rest of you first? Why? simply because we buy stuff from the store ourselves too and we just try to keep our credit cards bills low so we broker a few of our items and use instore credit to purchase new items.. :o) Would you rather see us broker the best of stuff there and keep them away from PWFW? That would be indeed some true merchant attitude and NOT the one of friends! VL grin Finally you mention I'm not a diplomat. Ask people around Ron.. ones that know me for years, a lot longer than our own recent acquaintance and you'll get your fair and accurate answer! :o) I'm just NOT a diplomat to something being discussed over and over again and again and again as if nobody listens! There's no ground of diplomacy left anymore in such a case... and I'm sorry, I won't carry on further as my time is limited and I 'd much rather consume it in "constructive" things than arguing pointlessly around here, with you, Marque OR anybody else! :o) Rena PS: Thanks for letting me know though the way you see us.. I'll keep that in mind next time we decide on our subscription fee.. since we "ARE" merchants and not sentimental poser fools, maybe a revision of policy should be due soon! VL sad grin

Busy for YOU Ron.. not my personal pleasure! Is that poor customer service too? VL grin Rena

I can't believe some of these people! I'm not a subscriber to PWFW site, but I've thought about it. And I can tell you for one that I would not be discouraged by this thread from getting one. In fact, I think its encouraging. I can see that Rena is a very real, honest person. I don't see why it has to be repeatedly brought up that 'well, if you were in customer service and you did that, you'd get fired.'... it doesn't matter to me. I'd rather deal with someone who is very real and personable then some blank-faced customer service rep who lies behind a smile. If I were to subscribe to this site, I wouldn't see it as a business ANYWAYS. Because I get the impression that its not really supposed to be. It seems to me to be more like a community that you make a donation to in order to keep it in existance! And if someone repeatedly complained about one aspect of it in public and just wouldn't let it die, I wouldn't blame the manager for feeling hurt and speaking her mind. Thats much more of a community attitude then a business attitude. And I think its a more comfortable way to be. Thats my two cents as an outsider in all of this.

"If I were running a company or the manager of such..if I had a employee that called a customer a "whiner", they'd be walking to the door. It doesnt matter if they are stressed. It doesnt matter if they've had a bad day. Its not appropriate. No way. No shape. No how."

Actually, if you deal with customers day in and day out, it can get you to the point where calling someone a whiner is theraputic. ;)

This thread hasn't changed my mind about wanting to subscribe, I'm just waiting for the right time financially for me.

But the Customer is not always right. Nor does the customer always deserved to be treated like royalty simply because they are spending money.
My business is quite different than a subscription site but quite frankly I've put up with so much crap from people who feel I owe them something that the term "customer" has come to mean "lowest form of life" at times. It happens, it's a fact and if you get stepped on often enough you either have to step back or go nuts. Just yesterday I told off one moron. Customer service, heck, I didn't deserve the crap and I would have applauded any employee who did the same.

Chalk this thread up to frustration and stress and it's really not so bad. Marque shouldn't be bashed, especially after the numerous appologies and neither should Rena or Steve. Both sides appeared to have a right to their actions/opinions.

Yes Ron, Rena's words are here for all to see, as are those of other people. You go ahead and point people to this thread, and once they've read it they can back browse through the forum and see what else has been said. A simple search on Poserworld, Rena, SteveShanks, Marque, Ronknights, etc etc will give them a very good basis for judgement I think. I've sat here for a couple of hours writing and rewriting different replies and responses, points of views and all sorts of waffle. Paragraphs of it. Pages of it, my keyboard is smoking from the work it's had to do, the keys melting. But, there's one thing. Really one thing I just have to say. Those blasted little faces are bugging the living hell out of me. Who's braindead idea was it to introduce those to the Poser forum and can I PLEASE kill them slowly?

LOL @ Questor!!!! I've been thinking the same thing myself! Of course I was never a big fan of Smiley either, and his various incarnations

I think the little faces started in the OT forum, but have spread to the rest of Renderosity. And of course there's always one or two people who HAVE to use one in every single message! They're driving me up the wall too, I think they're the dumbest thing ever. Call me a purist, but my little asci smiley faces are just fine! :) See? SEE??