As a content developer and artist, I just wanted to start a WIP thread to list feature ideas and suggest improvements as I work.  All are welcome to add to the list, and the Poser Developers are certainly invited to explore further and hint to the roadmap's direction.

UI, Camera Controls window; adition of parameter "control gain" as a dial or perhaps on/off button so you can then make micro (and macro?) adjustments to camera rotation and transition using the existing canera parameter dials and control icons.  There are other ways to achieve similar objective for instance implementing alignment and orientation using target object or ground plane vertex node snap.

USE CASES:

 Content Development - This would be especually helpful when setting joint parameter and in setup where precise alignment of joint centers to topology is achieved through camera orientation.  It would also be helpful in improving morph creation precision.  Artist - The feature would greatly aid scene creation effeciency by improving the speed and precision one can tile and orient props in scene.

For me as for creating poser models on daily basis, there are two things that could be quiet important, preventing having to use P11 for the creations of the models and fully depend on P11 making it even possible to make Poser models. 

1. bringing back the simple material room, or optionally add it as 3rd panel. It simplifies the workflow for basic texturing and is allot faster  when it comes to models with allot of material regions, rather then applying it manually on each just to see how the model looks like . materials can be adapted afterwards if necessary in the Advanced tag. I guess this was the main Idea of Poser having a Simple and a Advanced option instead of a Assign option that is never used !  This feature already makes a creator depend on P11 unless he is new and never knew about the Simple feature in Poser.

2. I do not know if it could be possible, but as we know almost nothing is impossible if there is a will. Making Poser backward compatible with Py 2.7 so that the older essential scripts can be used as there are no replacements for these in P12 and 13 and there will probably never be any as poser seems to have gone through a full reset. Start from scratch. This is for a creator the main reason why he depends on P11  as allot of the scripts developed over decades are essential for a good model creation.

I am not sure if you are aware that also allot of DS creators build up there models in P11 and then encrypt them to DS formats due the better options for rigging and Grouping tools that poser offers. Basically the only platform that DS supports to import fully rigged models ! 

If something New then it should be considered not destroying the options that were build making it possible having all these unique creations that are getting rare due the restrictions caused. Poser as well as DS suffer of a loss of standalone Figure creations the past years that are essential for a good future. Versality is Important not just one Doll witch is the Mother for all further creations just leaving a option of making Derivative creation based on these base models. 

So as Creator somehow just stuck in P11 for rigging and building and may be using P13 just to make the Promo renders or adapting the materials so that they work for the future users of poser. 

An option to have individual settings for each material, rather than having the whole thing behave as one fabric.  Use case is Lace sleeves, or Satin collars on linen top.

The ability to apply a texture map too ALL mat zones at once on one click not 4 plus as we currently have to remove unused nodes from each mat separately.

STOP embedding the OBJ in Props.

Give up on the XMP files or make their creation optional.

JustBeCause posted at 6:03 PM Wed, 8 November 2023 - #4477459

For me as for creating poser models on daily basis, there are two things that could be quiet important, preventing having to use P11 for the creations of the models and fully depend on P11 making it even possible to make Poser models. 

2. I do not know if it could be possible, but as we know almost nothing is impossible if there is a will. Making Poser backward compatible with Py 2.7 so that the older essential scripts can be used as there are no replacements for these in P12 and 13 and there will probably never be any as poser seems to have gone through a full reset. Start from scratch. This is for a creator the main reason why he depends on P11  as allot of the scripts developed over decades are essential for a good model creation.

So as Creator somehow just stuck in P11 for rigging and building and may be using P13 just to make the Promo renders or adapting the materials so that they work for the future users of poser. 

What "essential scripts" are available for P11 regarding figure creation are you referring to here? Can you be specific?

I haven't needed to rig in P11 since the 2nd or 3rd (roughly) update to P12, and unless I'm specifically testing something I pretty much never even open P11 anymore. But I've never relied on scripts for rigging (or much of anything else) so the move away from python 2 was never an issue for me. I use D3D's PFE when I need to edit a cr2 and that is independent of any poser versions. Even with the additions to Poser's rigging it still works fine, so there's not a lot internally that has been changed that PFE can't read that I'm aware of. It seems most updates to the rigging functions since 11.1 have been in regards to joint and morph projections for clothing.

That said, there are script functionalities for rigging that I'd love to see incorporated into Poser but as far as I know they never existed in any 3rd party script regardless of python version. I think that if there were more tools added to Poser's rigging/figure creation directly within Poser we'd see a drastic reduction in the need for editing cr2s or relying on 3rd party scripts all together.

The ability to copy individual limbs from an existing rig in the setup room would also be ideal, instead of having to use an entire rig and then delete and replace bones manually when I only need a certain portion.

*Better control over adjusting joint centers. For some reason they don't like to stay where you put them and will fly all over the place while trying to adjust. And unless you luck out and get them exactly where you need them in the setup room in the first try (which almost never happens) you're going to have to adjust them in the pose room while painting weights. Using front, side, etc., cameras can help but still doesn't fix the problem and those cameras don't always offer the best view. This is extremely frustrating and a sure way to turn people off from trying to create or modify their own content. The 'Lock end points' check box in the joint editor is helpful to some extent but still doesn't solve the problem.

*ERC/JCM mirror option, along with the rigging, especially when it's just transferring things like grasp and spread controls in a hand and don't require mirrored morphs. There's no reason I should have to spend hours doing the same thing on each side when Poser could include the option to.

*The ability to DELETE material zones from within Poser - likely via the grouping tool. They can be created and even modified, but they can't be removed. It's redonculous that I still have to go to blender or some other app just to remove a material zone at this stage of Poser's development.

*Add more Pose and Camera dots!!! 12 should be a minimum - 15 would be much better. 9 just isn't enough. I always run out of them and have to go back through and choose which older ones to replace. Maybe with an option for users to add additional ones if they want.

There are many more on my list but this is what I can think of at the moment.

1. Definitely correct the detection of objects/controls functions in Poser
Suppose you're changing the pose of the fingers, and that damn'^detector insists on trying to get something that's roughly 1'000'000'000 km/miles away behind, definitely NO

2. same era: using the Direct Manipulation tool (of which I'm a huge fan): more often than not the colored circles are visible but the same furiously annoying detector refuses to consider the colored circle my mouse cursor is passing on, even on the back on the said circle and insist on trying to get the same object that's also roughly 1'000'000'000 km/miles away behind, In this cas, we have to zoom out, which sometimes breaks the utility of the said tool.
Example:

I swear it: my mouse cursor is in the middle of the white circle and I can't reach the green one.

I've seen these two points for so long that I really don't remember when it started,

AmbientShade posted at 9:12 PM Thu, 9 November 2023 - #4477487

JustBeCause posted at 6:03 PM Wed, 8 November 2023 - #4477459

For me as for creating poser models on daily basis, there are two things that could be quiet important, preventing having to use P11 for the creations of the models and fully depend on P11 making it even possible to make Poser models. 

2. I do not know if it could be possible, but as we know almost nothing is impossible if there is a will. Making Poser backward compatible with Py 2.7 so that the older essential scripts can be used as there are no replacements for these in P12 and 13 and there will probably never be any as poser seems to have gone through a full reset. Start from scratch. This is for a creator the main reason why he depends on P11  as allot of the scripts developed over decades are essential for a good model creation.

So as Creator somehow just stuck in P11 for rigging and building and may be using P13 just to make the Promo renders or adapting the materials so that they work for the future users of poser. 

What "essential scripts" are available for P11 regarding figure creation are you referring to here? Can you be specific?

There is allot more  then just helpers for creations ! thousands of created Packages not working correctly anymore as they have Integrated Py scripts, these are still sold in the store. But for the end user a real Dilemma.

Lets just pick 'ShaderWorks', 'Advanced Shaders' that is supporting .sh8 and generates automatically 2ond skin assignments quiet some Vendors were using this method. Or all the broken Material Packages. The List is very long 

For end users ... are you able to create V4 WM in Poser 11.2 up ? are you able to create V4 SASHA ? can you use the AS fantastic packages without restrictions and features ?

Sorry but I actually do not even know where to beginn with what got lost ! And yes allot are essential for a good workflow unless you want to pass years building up a good complex standalone until it is ready for a release. But customers will not have the patience to wait for years or month. Productivity is the Key and this is what all these Addons were doing. 

This is just a tiny list of things that got lost ...... A drop on a hot Stone. 

Actually the shots above are only the ones that are Loaded in the script menu ... to keep the list shorter thousands or more are stored in the root of the PY folder, these are Imported into the PY panel if needed. Tools like bridges to connect with Blender, or to save the Obj's in a correct way for Morph creations, rigging and grouping helpers, Internal name rename, material name rename etc. comparing the P11 Py ( like shown Above ) with P13 is not a very helpful situation for Creators at all and also quiet a loss for end users. Sure you can say we have to go with time but if time is killing all the helping features what is it worth at the end. For me as a Creator a real Disaster and sure not standing alone here!

P13 atm as well as P12 2 years ++ and still empty. It will take decades of work getting it back the way it was and allot of creators. Probably it will never Happen.

*Better control over adjusting joint centers. For some reason they don't like to stay where you put them and will fly all over the place while trying to adjust. And unless you luck out and get them exactly where you need them in the setup room in the first try (which almost never happens) you're going to have to adjust them in the pose room while painting weights. Using front, side, etc., cameras can help but still doesn't fix the problem and those cameras don't always offer the best view. This is extremely frustrating and a sure way to turn people off from trying to create or modify their own content. The 'Lock end points' check box in the joint editor is helpful to some extent but still doesn't solve the problem.

*ERC/JCM mirror option, along with the rigging, especially when it's just transferring things like grasp and spread controls in a hand and don't require mirrored morphs. There's no reason I should have to spend hours doing the same thing on each side when Poser could include the option to.

*The ability to DELETE material zones from within Poser - likely via the grouping tool. They can be created and even modified, but they can't be removed. It's redonculous that I still have to go to blender or some other app just to remove a material zone at this stage of Poser's development.

*Add more Pose and Camera dots!!! 12 should be a minimum - 15 would be much better. 9 just isn't enough. I always run out of them and have to go back through and choose which older ones to replace. Maybe with an option for users to add additional ones if they want.

Get Poser talking to one of the generative AIs, adding another way to render. Perhaps a PostFX connector to automatically pass the finished render's i) depth map, ii) real-time Comic Book line-art, and iii) the original render over to an Generative AI UI's (e.g. InvokeAI) Controlnet.  It's all Python, so should theoretically be possible?

HartyBart you may want to look at Kel1171's scripts for Poser 13 to find what you want. I know he had such a script ready to go to the marketplace, but there was a lot of AI hate running around here. It was submitted, but Rendo stomped on AI so I am not sure if it ever made it to the marketplace here. He may have submitted a version to DAZ as well. Haven't talked to him in a bit. In either circumstance, such a beast exists already and I know people using it so it's available. Try site mail here if nothing else.

I believe parkdalegardener is referring  to OpenPose for Poser 12 https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/161157/openpose-for-poser-12

Ken1171's script is in the marketplace here and he has demonstrated many renders using the script as the base for the figures.  Yeah, the final images are AI-generated but different platforms are being used. 

JustBeCause posted at 7:30 AM Fri, 10 November 2023 - #4477497

These are a few features that were existent in P11.1 coming as 3rd helper Pythons, do not recall right away how they are called, as meanwhile I use some other mods for this kind of stuff, but rigging goes really fast for sure. For example rigging hands takes less then a hour in P11 with the right tools !  

JustBeCause posted at 7:30 AM Fri, 10 November 2023 - #4477497

These are a few features that were existent in P11.1 coming as 3rd helper Pythons, do not recall right away how they are called, as meanwhile I use some other mods for this kind of stuff, but rigging goes really fast for sure. For example rigging hands takes less then a hour in P11 with the right tools !  

If that's true they weren't widely available in any of the stores. Regardless, these features need to be built into the software and not dependent on 3rd party scripts that may disappear with their creators or become obsolete due to upgrades.

AmbientShade posted at 9:03 AM Sat, 11 November 2023 - #4477532

JustBeCause posted at 7:30 AM Fri, 10 November 2023 - #4477497

These are a few features that were existent in P11.1 coming as 3rd helper Pythons, do not recall right away how they are called, as meanwhile I use some other mods for this kind of stuff, but rigging goes really fast for sure. For example rigging hands takes less then a hour in P11 with the right tools !  

If that's true they weren't widely available in any of the stores. Regardless, these features need to be built into the software and not dependent on 3rd party scripts that may disappear with their creators or become obsolete due to upgrades.

I do not know if you run your own little Poser business, releasing Poser models, I do, and I have to say if P11 would not be working anymore it would not be possible to hold the Poser sites I run, with P13 all creations like they are or were would just not be possible to create, due the missing creation apps. I would have to let the sites run out and they would just be a memory like almost all the Poser sites that have closed in the past years. but you should also be aware of this situation if you make works for Poser or run your own Poser site business.

I do not say that it is impossible making creations with P13, it is possible, but what you were doing in P11 in a day takes you over a week in P13, 3 days in P11 almost a month in P13 just because the tools that were doing the stuff in one click are gone and you need to write many options by hand into the poser files using a text editor.

I have no idea how deep Poser has fallen, just a little example: Tell a creator that is making Poser models since 2020 to make a easy pose into the tail he created! do you think he will be able to do it ? something that was totally common for poser over decades.

Just to say, you take the tool away from the creator and the creator will leave, as he cant work without the tool even that these were existent, I can tell what tools there were but it does not help anyone as these just can't be used anymore, it is a dead end. But would they be working again in P13 then sure it would be worth talking about all the possible features for creations. Right now all these tools need to be Invented again for P13 and someone will need to create these. Else just stuck on P11 as long as it lasts.

Python 2.7 was used in Poser 11.  Python org AND its python developers ended support for this release of python on 1 Jan 2020. This is the reason that later versions of Poser began to use Python 3.

Ken1171 has written many python scripts that work in Poser 13. He would be the most likely person to contact to request some of the python functions you most need for Poser 13 and later.

Poser File Editor has a Create Chain Control command in the Tool menu that MAY serve the same functions as Easy Pose (never tried it)

And Ken1171 has a Chain Control script for Poser 12 and later

Python 2.7 was used in Poser 11.  Python org AND its python developers ended support for this release of python on 1 Jan 2020. This is the reason that later versions of Poser began to use Python 3.

DeeceyArt posted at 3:20 PM Sat, 11 November 2023 - #4477545

Python 2.7 was used in Poser 11.  Python org AND its python developers ended support for this release of python on 1 Jan 2020. This is the reason that later versions of Poser began to use Python 3.

The version of Python is P13 is no longer supported by Python Dev's either. 

I remember an issue with Pythons, for example "Netherworks" that stopped working after the update to 2014 up, you did not have to rewrite the whole script, you just had to insert a new line and they all worked again, all the way up to P11.1 like the sample shown ....

ver = int(ver)

insert (on a new line):

if ver >= 10: ver = 9

or

if ver >= 11: ver = 10

depending on what poser version you still wanted to use the py script, with just little efforts a little line all these pythons were and still do work like a charm. most other older scripts could also be adapted in a similar way....

but the jump to Py3 is making things really difficult for sure unless you could make the Python think it is still working under P11 but actually is running in P13, there you would just need a Hack Python script like the one that was made to run the P11.1 Py in P11.2 faking the version number. without that hack most Pythons do not work in P11.2 even that they supposed to be working. 

Such a script sure would be a top seller for Poser13  :) or a freebie making Poser attractive for creators and end users again, especially the ones who go with it since the beginning. would be worth a thought for many that are jumping onto DS to still use Poser ....

Isn't easypose just a series of erc's which can be created in Poser's dependency editor?

I never used the easypose script but I've set up plenty of pose dials directly in Poser without having to edit the cr2.

My issue is that Poser doesn't have a built-in function for mirroring of those erc's so you have to do it on both sides.

@AmbientShade, yes and no .. for Ajax's Easypose 2 at least..   While it does ERC, it also does geometry swapping, dial group creation, symmetrical slaving.    The geometry swapping was nice for me when I made a version of Melody(furry) and could swap out the hip to have a no tail patch (otherwise if you just hid the tail parts you had a big hole in her backside.) .. And it still works perfectly fine, since it's a stand alone program.

you can also give it a shot with this one it is free :) have not used it personally as my system has a Py loader for EPU 2.0.0.6 in Poser ....

https://sharecg.com/v/90739/gallery/8/Script/Freazypose-prototype0.06

other optional scripts were at CP but there all dead by now ... btw EPU can be also useful creating movements like close hands or move fingers without having to create masterdials in poser it self

EPU has loads of features for figure creations and setups actually a amazing little program, as a creator it was a must have to make good and clean releases of models. actually still is :)

To give you an Idea on how Poser was looking alike for a creator offering a good workflow, being able to setup your panels in a fast way increasing the speed of your creations. Something that I am sure missing in the Bondware versions. I am not sure if you people in here are really aware of what is missing, or if you ever got that deep into matter for figure creations, naturally it is also affecting the workflow of end users not having access to all these features.

A sample of Poser in creation mode with Python fast access.

 The way Poser 13 is offered atm is like having a Light version and for Creators sure a big Dilemma! New does not mean to be better and more sometimes it can happen that it will be less.

I believe that most users are not really aware of the size poser had to offer and how many feature there really were, often I read in forums about requests of new features for poser that already existed since decades, they just gotten buried under the New.

JustBeCause posted at 7:00 AM Sun, 12 November 2023 - #4477558

I believe that most users are not really aware of the size poser had to offer and how many feature there really were, often I read in forums about requests of new features for poser that already existed since decades, they just gotten buried under the New.

That just amplifies the point I made in my initial post. These features need to exist IN poser and not be dependent on ancient 3rd party scripts that are no longer available, making them only accessible to those who still have access to those scripts.

And geometry swapping doesn't work with weight mapped figures (unless someone has figured out a way to do it and is keeping it to themselves). It would be a nice feature to have back but from the looks of it that won't be possible until Poser has full unimesh support, if that ever happens.

I just did a little test using M2P4Lo:

I switched the rigging method to "Poser Unimesh"

The Poser 11 Genital switch still worked. (It simply swaps a genital hip + genital geometry with a non genital hip geometry)

Then I selected one knee and turned the falloff zones of the knee ONLY into a weightmap.

And re-rigged it using the weightmapping tool.

The Poser 11 Genital switch still worked.

So, as long as the bodypart that is going to be switched is NOT weightmapped, everything else CAN be weightmapped.

Just do not hit the "Merge All Zones To Weightmaps" button but convert the falloff zones one-by-one inside the weightmapping tool.

*

Now, of course, the hip/buttock resp. the hip/thigh joints benefit tremendously from weightmapping, so NOT weightmapping the hip actor would be a bit of a problem.

So, to add a tail, I would just create a "secondary hip" part that either connects with the tail or acts as a plug to cover the hole in the main hip if the tail is not needed.

This allows the main hip to be still weightmapped.

And only that secondary hip part stays non-weightmapped and can therefore be swapped.

BTW, weightmapping is good. Very, very good. I wouldn't want to be without it.

BUT...some late 4th generation DAZ figures bend ALMOST as well just using conventional falloff zones.

That means that, while the weightmap still is better in general (Although not perfect), a really well rigged sphere/capsule rigged joint can easily be brought up to the same standard by an additional JCM.

I usually focus on improving already existing (realistic) figures, so I have not much need for geometry swapping.

And I usually weightmap male figures with their genitals intact and just add a "genital gone" morph. (Ouch!)  ;-)

But if I wanted to design a custom figure WITH geometry swapping, I'd just add a secondary hip like mentioned before, or keep the hip non-weightmapped and improve the joints associated with the hip using "stronger" JCM's.

JoePublic posted at 11:23 AM Sun, 12 November 2023 - #4477563

And I usually weightmap male figures with their genitals intact and just add a "genital gone" morph. (Ouch!)  ;-)

I tend to not like the mixed media-type rigging of partial weight maps and traditional in the same figure but that's me, I'm sure it's useful for others in certain situations.

I know this might be unpopular, but Poser needs AI integration or it will simply be obsolete, it's a fact.

We all like Poser, but missing out or ignoring AI is going to kill it and any potential it has for being able to turn into a really useful and cool tool.

Watch this video, I suggested that Poser should do something like this before AI was banned from the site, which is still a huge mistake. This is what Poser could and should aim for. The program is basically designed for stuff like this, "just" needs an integration to Stable diffusion and we know that Poser already uses a lot of Blender stuff, so why not support it. Im sorry it is ridiculous to not do it.   

Blender and AI

Even if you hate AI, Poser won't survive without it.

3D-Mobster posted at 6:56 AM Fri, 24 November 2023 - #4478089

I know this might be unpopular, but Poser needs AI integration or it will simply be obsolete, it's a fact.

We all like Poser, but missing out or ignoring AI is going to kill it and any potential it has for being able to turn into a really useful and cool tool.

Watch this video, I suggested that Poser should do something like this before AI was banned from the site, which is still a huge mistake. This is what Poser could and should aim for. The program is basically designed for stuff like this, "just" needs an integration to Stable diffusion and we know that Poser already uses a lot of Blender stuff, so why not support it. Im sorry it is ridiculous to not do it.   

Blender and AI

Even if you hate AI, Poser won't survive without it.

  Can you give a use case or examples of the specific AI capabilities in Poser you are seeking?  

3D-Mobster posted at 6:56 AM Fri, 24 November 2023 - #4478089

I know this might be unpopular, but Poser needs AI integration or it will simply be obsolete, it's a fact.

We all like Poser, but missing out or ignoring AI is going to kill it and any potential it has for being able to turn into a really useful and cool tool.

Watch this video, I suggested that Poser should do something like this before AI was banned from the site, which is still a huge mistake. This is what Poser could and should aim for. The program is basically designed for stuff like this, "just" needs an integration to Stable diffusion and we know that Poser already uses a lot of Blender stuff, so why not support it. Im sorry it is ridiculous to not do it.   

Blender and AI

Even if you hate AI, Poser won't survive without it.

The from my understanding of the Blender script, is that it is able to approximate a figures Pose from a representative 2D image. Not certain why/what "AI" has to do with that but it could be a programmed capability rather than learned on the fly. Is AI even necessary in this capability, as MOCAP exists.

Please provide some use case or examples of the specific AI capabilities in Poser you are seeking?  

dreamcutter posted at 11:24 AM Fri, 24 November 2023 - #4478098

What do you mean that Poser needs AI integration? It's confusing because its a human artist tool, generally machine learning does not need software user interfaces or applications to create 3d art renders.  If not in the actual auto creation of 3d renders, perhaps you want the Poser scene and material creation to have some sort of AI assist?  To accomplish this privacy and other IP considerations important to Artists must be carefully weighed  as AI learning can be locally evolved so YOUR application techniques become more intuitive over time,  or client/server based (cloud) based where user data is shared with AI networks so that advancements evolve rapidly and broadly with other peoples techniques analyzed and adapted.... do we want that - would it ruin art through technique hominization?

The from my understanding of the Blender script, is that it is able to approximate a figures Pose from a representative 2D image. Not certain why/what "AI" has to do with that but it could be a programmed capability rather than learned on the fly. Is AI even necessary in this capability, as MOCAP exists.

Please provide some use case or examples of the specific AI capabilities in Poser you are seeking?  

Clothing

Being able to get an AI to simulate clothing is much faster than doing it dynamically through the cloth room, the AI doesn't care about collision in the same way and can apply realistic clothing to anything, animals, humans, monsters you name it. This also applies to animations.

If you look at a video like this:

AI to video

Why would you need to Mocab anything if Poser could hook up to your webcam and the AI transfer your movement to the character?

Hair

I think everyone knows that hair in 3D is a nightmare, it always looks stiff and wrong and making dynamic hair takes a really long time and is not easy and we don't even have the tools in Poser to do that well. AI would have no issues with that, especially if one imagines that in Poser you simply write what type of hair you want, or you find an image on the internet and throw it in and the AI copy it to the model. or you can control it using very simple controls compared to now.

Color and decals 

This is something that we currently have to do in textures, yet it would be pretty cool if you could get the AI to apply different colors or patterns in post, maybe make the clothing look torn or worn etc. Apply mud if the character is walking on that surface. Rather than having to go in and create new textures from scratch each time.

And you could add fog, smoke, fire, water, rain, snow etc. in post as well rather than having to render them, which takes a very long time in general. 

Sound and voice

This is a new tool that has gone into Beta (created by 2 people) and shows what you can do with voice, then one could imagine that you take that sound file, throw in Poser and the AI can animate the face on your character saying whatever you told it to.

AI any voice

Building scene assets

These are just some examples of how it could be used, you could also get the AI to create the part of the scene that is just background clutter, so if your scene is about a man driving a car through a city, then you just need the car and the man and the AI will add all the other things in the background based on what you have told it. This is a common issue in general when doing 3d, the majority of things in a scene are not important, it is simply there to not make the scene look boring. It would make working in Poser a lot faster.

Generate 3D objects

This is well under way and has improved quite a lot in the last few months so it probably won't take all that long before we see it.

Final thoughts

Basically, the possibilities based on what is going on are so crazy, that I wouldn't be surprised if in 5-10 years you simply generate a whole Hollywood-quality movie based on what you want to see, and the AI will write and direct everything and just generate it for you. But there are so many options here, that I think it would be stupid of Poser to at least not embrace it and integrate it into the software as best as they can. Whether they are big enough to keep up I have no clue, because as we know there is being spent so much money by huge companies in AI at the moment that it is insane, it's basically an arms race.

If you look at this AI-generated movie. Based on the description it is an animator with 25 years of experience making his first AI video. Now imagine how it will be in 5-10 years, given that AI video generation is very new. But I think one could imagine how Poser could be used to help control scenes and shots etc.

AI movie

If you look at this AI-generated movie. Based on the description it is an animator with 25 years of experience making his first AI video. Now imagine how it will be in 5-10 years, given that AI video generation is very new. But I think one could imagine how Poser could be used to help control scenes and shots etc.

AI movie

To make this movie it appears the AI is applied as 2D compost and AfterFX. Iin other words, the AI system is not building the scene in 3d in its memory, then rendering it out - it it using pixel morphing at the 2D level - aka PS perspective warp and blending. You could render scenes in Poser today, use as source data for an AI Image/movie generator and get this result.  Today the text and image interfaces necessitates enormous Trial and Error in production to have the AI LERN and produce teh desired output.  The trial and error nature of artist produced AI creations means LOTS and LOTS of attempts, therefore 3d raytraced rendering by an AI scene builder would require cloud based virtualized GPU hardware and be VERY expensive, unless the AI API option for local rendering system was used.  That would tie up your system for ages.... because AI is not as smart as the intelligent human artist at getting it (near) right the first time before hitting render.

>> Why would you need to Mocab anything if Poser could hook up to your webcam and the AI transfer your movement to the character? << This literally IS the definition of Motion Capture (MOCAP), and there are affordable hobby grade camera pose and animation capture systems available today for your 3d pipeline. Intel makes the realsense, and I still have an old Microsoft MOCAP camera some where... It was used by IClone's MOCAP. Reallusion, a competitor to DAZ/Poser actually created a DAZ to to IClone 3d pipeline exchange figure converter and a Camera Mocap system was developed to merge figures with Poses animation. So Blenders AI 2D to Pose approximator script could be applied to a Poser grouped figure in Blender and export BVH file. .BVH is the general file standard to exchange pose/animations to .FBX and Collada figures and Poser imports BVH fine now, even in a parametric grouped rig.

AI creating scenes in your Local Poser instance would be weird again, seems like automation is what you are seeking rather than Artificial Intelligence... are you looking to describe in text what you want in scene rather than grab the content from your library or are you expecting Magician AI to procure the 3D scene content on demand and charge your credit card for the scene you described... I hope accurately or $ wasted...

Recall this thread is a CONTENT DEVELOPER Wishlist for future Poser versions so coming up with a way to eliminate the need for a artist, or even the content store itself would be a bummer to most reading this. Dang we could have AI be the audience for the Gallery and have AI appreciate the AI artists,,, we could save power to our PC's and just eat left over Turkey all day.

dreamcutter posted at 9:25 AM Sat, 25 November 2023 - #4478128

To make this movie it appears the AI is applied as 2D compost and AfterFX. Iin other words, the AI system is not building the scene in 3d in its memory, then rendering it out - it it using pixel morphing at the 2D level - aka PS perspective warp and blending. You could render scenes in Poser today, use as source data for an AI Image/movie generator and get this result.  Today the text and image interfaces necessitates enormous Trial and Error in production to have the AI LERN and produce teh desired output.  The trial and error nature of artist produced AI creations means LOTS and LOTS of attempts, therefore 3d raytraced rendering by an AI scene builder would require cloud based virtualized GPU hardware and be VERY expensive, unless the AI API option for local rendering system was used.  That would tie up your system for ages.... because AI is not as smart as the intelligent human artist at getting it (near) right the first time before hitting render.

>> Why would you need to Mocab anything if Poser could hook up to your webcam and the AI transfer your movement to the character? << This literally IS the definition of Motion Capture (MOCAP), and there are affordable hobby grade camera pose and animation capture systems available today for your 3d pipeline. Intel makes the realsense, and I still have an old Microsoft MOCAP camera some where... It was used by IClone's MOCAP. Reallusion, a competitor to DAZ/Poser actually created a DAZ to to IClone 3d pipeline exchange figure converter and a Camera Mocap system was developed to merge figures with Poses animation. So Blenders AI 2D to Pose approximator script could be applied to a Poser grouped figure in Blender and export BVH file. .BVH is the general file standard to exchange pose/animations to .FBX and Collada figures and Poser imports BVH fine now, even in a parametric grouped rig.

AI creating scenes in your Local Poser instance would be weird again, seems like automation is what you are seeking rather than Artificial Intelligence... are you looking to describe in text what you want in scene rather than grab the content from your library or are you expecting Magician AI to procure the 3D scene content on demand and charge your credit card for the scene you described... I hope accurately or $ wasted...

Recall this thread is a CONTENT DEVELOPER Wishlist for future Poser versions so coming up with a way to eliminate the need for a artist, or even the content store itself would be a bummer to most reading this. Dang we could have AI be the audience for the Gallery and have AI appreciate the AI artists,,, we could save power to our PC's and just eat left over Turkey all day.

Nothing of what I suggest would essentially prevent people from using poser in the traditional way, why they would I don't know but that is up to them.

And as I said this is coming to 3d as well, here are some short videos.

Masterpiece X

Masterpiece Studio is an AI-powered text-to-3D generator that has revolutionized the 3D modeling process. It uses sophisticated Natural Language Processing (NLP) technology to transform a user's descriptive language into a 3D model.

Meshcapade
Leading AI text-to-3D generator that can create high-quality 3D models from text inputs. It offers a unified platform compatible with all game engines and graphics applications to meet your avatar requirements.

Luma AI

Luma AI is a toolkit for developers and hobbyists. It offers various types of creator tools and APIs such as; flythrough videos, NeRF videos, video to 3D, text to 3D (alpha), game art, e-commerce art, and more.  Luma AI has a great team behind them and are continuously developing out the offerings to users.

3DFY Prompt
3DFY AI uses advanced generative AI to produce high-quality 3D models from textual descriptions. By eliminating the need for costly, time-consuming, and impracticable manufacturing or scanning methods, 3DFY AI has made the creation of 3D content accessible to everybody.

RODIN Diffusion by Microsoft

RODIN is an AI-powered system that can create realistic 3D avatars using information like a client image. A client can have an immersive viewing experience by watching these created avatars in 360-degree views. This makes RODIN a valuable tool for those who want to create lifelike 3D characters based on one’s likeness.

Avaturn

Avaturn stands as an authentic avatar generator and serves as an avatar infrastructure for various gaming platforms, applications, and expansive virtual worlds. This system empowers game creators to dedicate their energies to refining the gameplay experience, as Avaturn takes the reins on avatar creation and personalization. The Avaturn add-on enables end-users to craft lifelike avatars that mirror their real-world likeness. Users are provided with a vast selection of customization options, including but not limited to body configuration, apparel, adornments, hairdos, footwear, and eyewear.

If all these companies can find ways to integrate and make use of AI, why should Poser do it? It makes no sense for them to try to keep doing the same things when things are changing. When people argue against them doing this, they are killing Poser, im sorry to say it but that is the truth. Because it not going to fly in the future to work in the traditional ways that we used to. They need to jump on the wagon now and figure out how they can make use of AI to improve the experience for their users, it is a unique chance for them to create something really cool.

Forgot to add, this is an image created using Poser and SD I did some time ago, so they can already be used together.

The 3D model controls the generation, but it is not easily done compared to if it was integrated into Poser which it should in my opinion.

Slowly getting tired of these 100% artificial non intelligence stuff, honestly.

Slowly getting tired of these 100% artificial non intelligence stuff, honestly.

In a way it sure is interesting working with AI and modeling, disadvantage is that it still generates allot of errors and the end renders can't be really controlled like when making 3D artworks or 3D, after generating such you have to ask your self if it is really what you wanted to have or if it is something that you were not aware that you wish having. 

I Personally found a good way integrating this AI for a simple use, the generated Images can be very helpful giving you an Idea on what kind of Poser mesh you wish working at, using it like a scrap for a future figure model, wish having a Dragon, an elf, an armor, a robot and so on, the Ai generators can sure hit your taste and offer you a template for a future figure creation with loads of details that you probably would not  of considered making in your creation. 

This sure could push an artist making more detailed Products, you sort of learn from these engines and you are able to develop your creativity.

out of this creature I made and meanwhile released

https://www.renderosity.com/forums/comments/4478107/permalink

I generated these AI Images with a target on what I would like having, resulting that I got some quiet nice Templates for future Poser Figure creations, these results giving me enough details to work on Models also offering the possibility giving them even more Details

https://www.renderosity.com/forums/comments/4478110/permalink

These results give me motivation building some that go in that direction thinking ... wooh how bad ass it would be having these as 3D models for Poser, I am sure that other poser users would lick there fingers getting hand on such models ....

Would be nice if AI could generate the mesh that would save a whole lot of time, side effect is that allot of creators would lose there creative jobs and stores like renderosity could close there doors .....

In a way it sure is interesting working with AI and modeling, disadvantage is that it still generates allot of errors and the end renders can't be really controlled like when making 3D artworks or 3D, after generating such you have to ask your self if it is really what you wanted to have or if it is something that you were not aware that you wish having.

I fully understand this, but the fact is that we didn't have it before. It's like asking if we really wanted computers when no one hardly knew what it was? I can't answer that, because I don't know how far these things will go. But following along in the development of these things, things are happening fast and improving at an alarming rate. 

Would be nice if AI could generate the mesh that would save a whole lot of time, side effect is that allot of creators would lose there creative jobs and stores like renderosity could close there doors .....

Im a content creator myself so I know how much time it takes to create a product with everything it includes. And if the development of these 3D tools continues, take into account that what you see in the videos above are the very first stages, then these tools will eventually be extremely powerful and fast. 

If you imagine that a program like 3DFY, were integrated into Poser, then you would basically go to the top and write "Red Leather sofa" and a few minutes later Poser would give you 3 options and you could select one and it would generate that sofa in your scene as a 3d object. 

No, content creators can compete with something like that. Even if Poser didn't want to make this feature, someone else is and you would still be able to use that program to create OBJs that you could import into Poser. This means that either you would use these programs yourself or the content creators would and then turn them into a product, but I think most people would probably choose to just generate them themselves, so the store would be hurt anyway because it would be flooded with objects or they would simply not sell.    

You can compare it to AI art, where people can upload AI art and then others can buy them. My guess is that hardly any of them sell anything because people simply make it themselves. What these sites make their money on is selling the prints on posters or on t-shirts etc. but the art creators hardly make anything.

I don't want anyone to lose their jobs or to see the Poser market destroyed, I simply look at what is going on and that things are changing and someone will create these tools because we know for a fact they are, what im saying is that Poser needs to find ways to make use of them to improve the experience for their users.

Look at the music industry, you can basically create songs now for free created completely by AI. This is a song I made using Chatgpt and Suno, so Chatgpt wrote the lyrics in the form of a song which is a recipe for scrambled eggs and Suno turned it into a song:

Scrambled egg song

I know nothing about music, I can't sing, write or compose. Yet, you could easily imagine that in 5 years, you will simply get an AI to generate the music you want to hear on the fly kind of like Spotify, it creates two versions of the song in less than 2 minutes. Is that bad for music creators? Probably yes. But these things are coming and fast, is it good or bad? The fact is that it is coming no matter what. 

It has been explained numerously elsewhere: A(not)I has nothing to do with 3D, it's nothing else than the result of the combination of a collection of statistical data, the engine behind doesn't understand a single binary digit (Bit in short) of all this 3D world. It just take a picture, collect data stolen elsewhere to create a result for which it doesn't even understand what it really is, so that it looks like the given picture, while respecting at best the texts put in entry.

Furthermore: who would buy a program that costs 200 bucks or so when you have free alternatives? Especially if the idea is not to create a render but just pose a set of coordinates that looks like a human of a beast, or an animal?

Final word: almost every week, the 3D world loses a valuable artist, who will probably never return.

Furthermore: who would buy a program that costs 200 bucks or so when you have free alternatives? Especially if the idea is not to create a render but just pose a set of coordinates that looks like a human of a beast, or an animal?

Those are good questions and I don't have the answers to them. Again, im simply arguing that these things are happening, whether they are good or bad, is kind of irrelevant I think, because none of us are going to stop it. And in the end, Poser is still a program that will only get development if it makes money and if it can't compete or there are too few users then they won't spend money on it and its probably even worse for Daz because their model is based on content. But if people start to use AI to create these then what?

But I think there are options for them to get in on this, which in many cases might simply be easy integration and user-friendliness. but it doesn't make sense to do it in 5-10 years once all the others have created tools because then these will be the ones that people will use. And as these things develop, new ideas and solution etc. might appear that can be turned into unique features.

One could imagine that Poser had integrated A* for pathfinding and could generate a nav-mesh, so you could build a scene and place a character at point A and then move it somewhere else in the scene and then in a prompt write "lazy walk" and the AI could automatically animate your character walking in the scene around obstacles without you having to do it.

My point is that I think we will see a lot of changes happening over the next many years, and that there are lots of cool things that could be done to improve the quality of the stuff we can make.

But exactly where this technology ends up is extremely difficult to say, because it is so early. And if the rumors of OpenAI and the Q* is true, then it will get even crazier, because then these LLMs, will become better at math which is an obstacle now, but needed for AGI.

Yes, it's sad that we lose 3D artists, but again this is going to affect the whole entertainment industry whether we like it or not.

This is probably a more hands-on video, as it will actually show a whole workflow from start to finish of how he is using different AI tools with 2d and 3d. Which I think gives a good idea of where the industry is probably heading. And one could easily imagine how some of these things could be features in Poser as well I think.

2D Character Image To Full 3D Animation with AI

This AI 3d project seems to be aiming for that, applying animation to a fbx figure based on video/image samples .  https://plask.ai/  

However while many of the objectives you describe like text UI administration of Poser (Py script)  can already and has been done WITHOUT AI, the reliance of an AI webservice to the Poser software application will be a costly dependency and likely convert the use license to subscription or pay per use. Because it woudl so fundamentally change the direction and technical resources behind the development of Poser,  IMO it woudl make more sense for Bondware to license out the Poser API to a 3D AI art front end if the technology required it. 

I tried some of the suggested tools, that masterpieceX output is not render worthy... not close.  Maybe background characters for some amature low poly retro game, but not art quality renders,  Seems like embracing AI at the moment would be be foolhardy and reactionary to the hype and buzz... Poser is not NVIDIA.  I do not think Poser NEEDS AI integration to succeed... perhaps the depreciated FUSION capability could be replaces with OpenUSD & Omniverse support.  That would enable more than just AI in the pipeline.

dreamcutter posted at 4:19 PM Sun, 26 November 2023 - #4478201

This AI 3d project seems to be aiming for that, applying animation to a fbx figure based on video/image samples .  https://plask.ai/  

However while many of the objectives you describe like text UI administration of Poser (Py script)  can already and has been done WITHOUT AI, the reliance of an AI webservice to the Poser software application will be a costly dependency and likely convert the use license to subscription or pay per use. Because it woudl so fundamentally change the direction and technical resources behind the development of Poser,  IMO it woudl make more sense for Bondware to license out the Poser API to a 3D AI art front end if the technology required it. 

I tried some of the suggested tools, that masterpieceX output is not render worthy... not close.  Maybe background characters for some amature low poly retro game, but not art quality renders,  Seems like embracing AI at the moment would be be foolhardy and reactionary to the hype and buzz... Poser is not NVIDIA.  I do not think Poser NEEDS AI integration to succeed... perhaps the depreciated FUSION capability could be replaces with OpenUSD & Omniverse support.  That would enable more than just AI in the pipeline.

If you take the last video I linked. At the beginning of it, simply being able to take a 2d image, upload it to a website, and turn it into 3d in a few hours is pretty crazy. Same with how he rigs it and animates it.

As technology enhances there is a good chance that you will run this locally like you will do with SD. I think you can look at this as with videos, in the beginning (few month ago) you needed very powerful GPUs, now they are talking about how to render videos on less than 8GB of VRAM.

So I don't think one should judge these things on what we see today, because again they are in the very early stages of development. And sure Poser is not Nvidia or Microsoft, but a lot of these tools are not created by these huge companies. A lot of them make use of open-source stuff like SD, which is also in the process of creating a huge 3D model like they have for the 2D images, so it will be interesting to see that when it is done because I think that is when we will start to see real huge improvements in the 3D area.

And even if Poser doesn't have direct AI support, it doesn't change that people will simply start to use external 3D generators to create content rather than buying them, when these tools become good enough. If you can upload an image of a leather sofa or use text to 3d in SD to generate a high quality fully textured 3D object then you won't buy it at DAZ or Renderosity. 

No different than you can download free 3d objects from websites now, the only issue with them is that they often have a lot of problems that need fixing, so in many cases it is better to buy them. But in theory, the idea is exactly the same, except that you will just generate what you need.

I think it is important to not look at all these AI tools based on what they can do now, but on what they will be able to do. 

Development Feature Suggestion:

Central/ Bulk Parameter Lable renaming capability.  USE CASE: Figure developers typically standardize the figure joint rotational parameters to common english ie:  RotationX = Bend,  RotationY = Twist, Rotational  = Side so ability to automatically rename all joint rotation parameters to their common english equivalant based on Joint Order selection would be a real timesaver when configuring Joint Parameters but especially when  transferring JP's into a modified/new figure mesh.  Its common for the need to replace mesh in figure QA or product refinement where a vertex morph may inadvertantly cause polygroup seperation. 
One  way to acconplish this is with a checkbox option to transfer lables with JPs in the existing JP Transfer feature  - that would achieve the greatest  % of capability with least dev effort.  

don't forget that poser initially was just a simple guide for artists who magnified their 3D with painting or photo software

don't forget Kodak who didn't want to see the arrival of digital, photography still exists, let's find the best way

What this thread was supposed to be: "suggest new features for Poser!"

What it became: AI junkies again predicting the death of some software without AI saying it's "a fact" (I love those "facts" without any scientific method to support them, alas)

Renderosity banned AI imagery because, as it is currently, it has absolutely no ethics towards the work and value of the actual artists their databases steal from. This is a site made for artists. Like any other site made for artists that wants to keep fostering art and not remade amalgamations of previously made imagery until all the actual artists give up and move away, Renderosity has banned it. Poser is owned by the same company that runs Renderosity. You might as well stop wasting everyone's time by trying to get Poser to use a (at least so far) completely unethical technology that Renderosity has banned.

On another, but related, point: to all our old members, can you still count how many times someone has come to these forums to say that Poser "for a fact" will die without something something? I think I got tired of these "predictions" some fifteen years ago.

Thank you, Ohki.  Let's get this thread back on track before moderators lock it up.

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 2:37 PM Tue, 28 November 2023 - #4478297

What this thread was supposed to be: "suggest new features for Poser!"

What it became: AI junkies again predicting the death of some software without AI saying it's "a fact" (I love those "facts" without any scientific method to support them, alas)

Renderosity banned AI imagery because, as it is currently, it has absolutely no ethics towards the work and value of the actual artists their databases steal from. This is a site made for artists. Like any other site made for artists that wants to keep fostering art and not remade amalgamations of previously made imagery until all the actual artists give up and move away, Renderosity has banned it. Poser is owned by the same company that runs Renderosity. You might as well stop wasting everyone's time by trying to get Poser to use a (at least so far) completely unethical technology that Renderosity has banned.

On another, but related, point: to all our old members, can you still count how many times someone has come to these forums to say that Poser "for a fact" will die without something something? I think I got tired of these "predictions" some fifteen years ago.

But ill not reply to anything related to AI here anymore to avoid derailing the thread.