Before you buy something in the store, ensure that the item has quality. If you look at the Store Contact forum, you will see that there are 75 messages that deal with bad quality of items in this store. Be carefull. Be carefull.

I agree, nitreug. However, isn't that the case wherever or whenever you buy something? According to my account, it says I have purchased sixteen items from the store. Actually, I think its wrong. I think I have purchased more than that. Anyway, of the sixteen items there are two items where I felt I was "taken." And on those items, I believe there was little I could have done. The descriptions were, IMHO, totally misleading. I believe one of those items is an item you also have a complaint about. However, I have purchased software and even hardware in a brick and mortar store only to find out, once home, that it is nothing like what it is described or portrayed as. So you simply never buy anything from that manufacturer again. Or, in this case, from those particular creators. And if the problems continue with other items, you simply do not buy from that particular store whether it be brick and mortar or online. It doesn't get your money back, I know. But I think it is most likely the only solution we've got at this point. The choice to not allow refunds on electronic purchases is a choice made by the online store. It is not popular from what I read elsewhere, it is not in line with industry standards, but, that was their choice. Trying to change that is probably like a dog barking up a tree at a bird. A lot of noise but... no bird. When I look at my combined purchases from here, DAZ 3d, Zygote, BBay, Replica, etc. the two I felt "taken" on seem to be about the same percentage of "disappointments" I feel with brick and mortar purchases. And, in all fairness, there are NOT 75 messages dealing with "...bad quality of items..." Many of those messages deal with download problems, payment problems, etc. Being misleading can be a two-way street.

Have any of these people complained to the author? I personally have been selling through the store for quite a while now, and have quite a few products out. In all this time I have only had one complaint, about software funnily enough, not models. Apparently one of my software products didn't run on NT properly. The person got his money back, and IMO it was a fair thing to do.

I dl the same stuff as nitreug an hour after it was released.it was the first time i was disapointed about stuff I bought here.I mailed it to the author of the produkt and he answered that it was the way this item should look! other produkts offered by the same author are great.maybe he had a bad day . Maybe other people do more betatesting.( I took part in the testing of mehndis delilah and it took several weeks) Ill go on buying items here , but in future Ill be more carefully.

Have any of these people complained to the author?<<< To be honest, no. But I didn't buy from the author directly. I bought from the online store. I don't expect the author to pony up a full refund when the store is still going to keep its cut. Just like I don't go to Sierra to get my money back when I bought their program at Best Buy. I expect Best Buy to give me my refund. Now, I read the terms here. No refund. Period. Don't like it after you've tried it? Tough. Feel misled? Tough. Feel had? Tough. I read and accepted those terms when I clicked on the little button. Now, I wasn't too happy to see that what I thought was, wasn't. But I feel it would be hypocritical of me to try to change the rules of the game just because the other party may be taking advantage of the situation. You live and learn. I have probably bought close to fifty items between the various 3d related stores in the last year. Two of that fifty were, at best, way below expectations. Two items from two different authors out of nearly fifty items and at least a dozen and a half authors. So I have two authors I never buy from again. I will survive. There are people like Traveller, PhilC, Jim Burton, Mehndi, Dmentia and numerous others whose work will keep me happy for what I need. I will not miss two. Nor, I dare say, will they miss me. Sychronicity is a wonderful thing. By the way, your philosophy on refunds is commendable. It is also in line with industry ethics and standards. For that, you truly deserve to be commended. Take care.

Just want to point out that the person I mentioned above recieved a refund because he purchased a product that would not run on his system. My description of the product did not say anything about this, so he got a refund. The description has now been changed and clearly states what it will run on. Subsequent purchasers would not neccessarily be refunded because of this. I advise any purchasers to read through the descriptions of products carefully before buying anything, if they don't meet your needs afterwards, and that was pointed out in the description you will probably be stuck. I like to play fair, but I don't want to make a habit out of giving people their money back:) If there is a genuine problem or oversight on the part of the author/renderosity, then I think the purchaser should be at least credited on their next purchase from that author, at the very least.

How about starting a forum where users can review the store products that they have purchased. This I believe would help with the quality problem in that those posting to the store might think twice before releasing a poor product or lack of info about the product. Public opinion if a powerful tool. It might also put a little more presure on those running the store to check those items being uploaded for quality and substance. - For example: I bought a product from the store that did not contain the items that it claimed to. The maker was very cool and sent the rest of the items. But my sys crashed before I could back-up the models. Not a prob. considering that the products are available for 30 days, except the item I bought was removed from the store about 2 days after it went up. I contacted the store and they said when the author re-uploads the product they will send me a zip of the item. A little over a week and it still is not around. I know I'm rambling, but the point is how did this item get past the store people who are checking the files? The item was missing 33% of the product. I' ll stop now and go to bed. Sorry for the rant.

I own just about every item from this store, from the Daz/Zygote store and a ton of stuff from bbay. I don't just complain to hear myself complain...if I have a problem I take it to the store and/or the creator of the item. I am just saying that renders could be a little better on some of these items, and if you notice, the items of high quality are usually rendered so you can see the product clearly. There needs to be more responsibility taken for the products. Freestuff is one thing, you get what you get. But if you are buying something you should get a product that is complete. I have yet to have a problem with the store or the creators dealing with a problem with the product, but that is after the fact. If there was better testing there would be no problem to deal with. I love the Vickie Bomber Jacket, I was just confused that it has morph targets that don't work. The creator of the product emailed me back and explained that they were put there to create the jacket and that they no longer work. That was all I needed. I just thought I did something wrong when I installed it. I would not buy the hair because it made me nervous that I couldn't see it clearly...so I didn't get bit. I think a review section is a great idea..and I will sometimes be so tickled with a product that I do a quick render just to show what it can do. Nothing is perfect in this world, but some things can be avoided with a little common sense. Marque

About creating a new forum for reviewing the items you bought- That can be done right here in the POSER forum.

I agree, but there is so much going on in this forum that it would be much easier to find reviews if it had a dedicated forum. The forum could also have reviews for other products. Maybe just a, "REVIEWS" forum.

There's quite a few items in the store that really should not be there in the first place. I'm not going to point fingers at anyone, but some of the stuff should not be for sale. I guess it's a thin line what should be accepted as a "for sale" item, but the last few months I've seen more and more of this "usage" of what others have created. I don't like the trend. I have only bought 4 items from this store and have had no problem with those ones. I do agree that this store should take some responsibility if an item is defect. //Mike

bobsmash, You've probably said what has been thought by others, myself included, but I won't tell someone they can't sell their item, I just won't buy that item if it doesn't look like something I will use. I think we have gotten used to high quality and we are a bit spoiled. 8^) I just think there is a rush to sell without proper testing, and we are seeing that trend in a lot of places, not just here. I think people need to keep submitting stuffage for sale, just make sure your renders are clear and your item is properly tested. Also a clear, easy to follow readme is a great asset. Marque

i completely agree with all of you. I bought 60 items only from this store and I can tell that we have great artists in the community. I am very satisfy with most of the items.For myself I found the quality is not there for SOME items. Missing components, weird behaviors, misleading information(Example, in one ad it said "2 new sports shoe props", I was expecting two paris of shoes but it was really two shoes so one pair). Having a review committee or group will be nice. Maybe the store do not provide quality criteria to the artists (example: no missing items which happen one time on 5 about). Maybe also a sign on the item at the store representing that the item has been reviewed by third party. When many people are not satisfy with an item, the store and the artist should act on that.

The items in the store are tested to see if they install and work properly. The products are not judged on how "good" they are. That is very subjective and judgmental of the artist. You ARE buying the products from the ARTIST, through this store. Renderosity is a broker for the product, not the creator. If you don't like what the artist creates, don't buy from them. That is the quickest way to get better product. If you find a problem with a product you purchased through the store please let us know about it, but also let the ARTIST know as well. They are ultimately responsible for the product. -JeffH.

"You ARE buying the products from the ARTIST, through this store. Renderosity is a broker for the product, not the creator." That is to say, Renderosity is the broker for the product, not the creator of the product. -JH.

If I bought clothes from TAIWAN do i call them if my cloth is wrong or do i go to the store for changing it or get a refund. WHen you say that "if you don't like what the artist creates, don't buy from them" for me this is a statement after the fact. It is too late. If I buy then I have to stick to it. If the items are tested to install properly why so many items have missing components. What king of testing is done? For example, yesterday I bought the jogging suit for Michael, Poser looks for headbump.bum file when loading the sport top which has nothing with the suit I think. So who test that suit? JeffH, According to your comments, you take more the side of the artists than the customers.

nitreug, Your analogy doesn't apply in this case. Renderosity provides the Artist with the needed tools to sell their product. It is not our place to judge them. Is this something we should start doing? Who decides what is good and what isn't? Many people think Zygote's Victoria is not good; should they stop offering it for sale? The ".bum" files are a problem. Most artists tend to provide them in JPEG format that must be converted to ".bum". Load the JPEGs in you favorite editor and save them out as ".bmp" then rename the extension to ".bum". The problem is compatibility. PC ".bum" files are really just ".bmp" files. Windows ".bmp" can not be used by Mac.

Does the store get a cut of the sale? If i buy a sony reciever from sears, take it home and it doesn't work, does sears say, "we only broker the stuff take it up with sony"? No, as a reseller they take responsibility for their brokerd items. A broker is a reseller.

JeffH, I know the JPEG and BUM stuff. The file headbump.whatever is not in the zip file. ANd why a bump for the head when I bought clothing below the head. I completely agree with you Deberus.

Renderosity is not a reseller, the items are not purchased from the artists for the store. The artist is the seller, Renderosity provides credit card, security, and server facilities.

JeffH, What about the testing of the Jogging suit, you did not answer me back on that. What is the missing file?

Jeff, I definitely think that whoever is testing the items for sale should judge the quality. I also think that the test should be done by at least 2 different people. As I mentioned before, I have only bought a few items from this store and have no complaint with what I have resived. But, if there are people out there who think that what they got is crap - then they should be able to complain both to this store and to the artist. Hopefully they would then either get a proper product or some kind of refund. I think that nitreugs analogy is right on the money. Yes, this store is selling someone elses stuff - but THIS store is selling it. Why on earth this store should be exempt from any liability is beyond my understanding. My point once again is - DO judge the quality before you allow it to be sold in the store. //Mike

Armor--------Armour! -Lights out ----Deberus

I'll check on the jogging suit and put a question to the artists about "Judging Quality". This is a difficult call. I personally don't want to be in a position to judge someone's work. We can provide good pictures of the product and a good description of what is included with the file, and let the customer decide if the product is "Good" or not by that. -Jeff

I think many things are a matter of taste and they cant be judged by a tester.some may like it other not.But if there are things that really dont work right or doesnt fit they shounldnt be offered. If I have bought something here and tried it, in most cases I write a massage to the author whether I like his produkt or not.And what i like and what could perhaps be better :-)) The item which started the discussion was the first thing I wrote a complaint to the author sorry my english ,Im german

nitreug, Okay, I checked out the jogging suit. It does make a call to a file that isn't present. Click "Cancel" for that file and everything should load properly. It's looks like that ".bum" isn't needed. I e-mailed the artist about it and I suggest you do the same. The address is in the readme. -Jeff

I am a "merchant" here at 'rosity. I have several items that i sell, and i also regularly contribute free stuff (which most of us "merchants" do). i always try 500% to ensure quality of my items. to this end, i have between 5 and 12 people who beta test my stuff. only once have i gotten a unanimous vote of 100% quality. most times, each tester will have something different to say, and i'm continuously refining my product, until it's submitted, which takes anywhere from 1 month to 3. i have an "inventory" of stuff in various stages of construction, testing, and refining - and i'm pretty sure that's how a lot of the merchants operate. so it may seem like stuff is being "fired off" for sale, but really, it's not, in most cases. i don't ask my beta testers if they like it....just if it works properly and if it's all there. however, human nature is such that i am always told whether they like it or not. when a problem occurs with one of my items (which has only happened twice - before i found my great beta testers) i rectify it immediately. yes, that's after the fact, but sometimes, that's the only way to find out there IS a problem. as consumers, you should expect quality merchandise. as merchants, we should provide quality merchandise. if only it was a perfect world :( and a review forum would be good.......but everyone would have to be exeedingly careful. there are so many ways to understand the written word, and not everyone interprets things the same way. one bad review - whether deserved or not- could ruin an artist, and conversely, you may get someone "plugging" an item to boost someone's sales. but i would welcome some form of feedback, as i'm sure any artist would. and the store's decision not to allow refunds is the only logical one. once an item is downloaded, whether it's "good" or not, is on the purchaser's system. the item can't be returned, like with a tangible good to a regular store. nor is it the store's fault if someone doesn't like something they bought...if you didn't like the look of it in the ad picture, why buy it? and if it looked a lot better in the picture than on your system, please, contact the artist! most merchants (i for one) don't do post render work on the item being sold. if it's a texture, how it looks in the picture is what it is - no touching up to hide seams, etc. anyway, this is a good thread, and it's always good to hear from the people who buy the products being sold - even if they are critique-ing those products :)

Well said, Styxx. Critique-ing (sp?) is a double edged sword. Some will be good, some bad. I have been a freelance illus. for 10 years, before that there was undergrad. and grad. school. It's good to hear what others like about one's work, it's also good to hear what others do not like about one's work ( though a we' tad' bit' more bitter a fruit.) Not to mention; as a consumer, that it is a great way to decide between what one wants and what and what one feels they must have. Did that make sense? So I'd like to see a dedicated forum. I believe it could be a good thing on several different levels. -Deberus

How about a feedback section in the store? Give ratings like in the galleries, leave comments about a product you have bought?

Renderosity is not a reseller, the items are not purchased from the artists for the store. The artist is the seller, Renderosity provides credit card, security, and server facilities.<<< With all due respect, Jeff, legal precedence is against you. If push would ever come to shove and it landed in court, you would lose with that defense. And, yes, I speak from experience since I am engaged in the reselling of items over the Internet. The bottom line is that I understand the terms you have chosen to use for the store. That is why I click on the button to complete the sale. Like I said before, there are simply fewer artists or creators I buy from now. Take care.

and the store's decision not to allow refunds is the only logical one.<<< No, it isn't. I deal with companies who sell software ranging in price from $9.95 to several hundred dollars. Very few do NOT offer refunds. Have they been ripped by a thief on occasion? You bet. Have I been ripped by a thief on occasion? Oh, yes, definitely. That is what databases are for. If there is someone who is buying and then requesting a refund time and again, you refuse to sell or you keep those records so you can show a consistent pattern so that you can legitimately and legally show why you are refusing a refund to this particular thief,... er, person. However, you do not stick the honest customer with a product they feel misled or taken on just because you, the seller, are afraid of the thief. That is not the way the overwhelming majority of ESD (Electronic Software Delivery) merchants operate. In fact, if you take credit cards, your customer is legally allowed to cancel ANY sale within 30 days of purchase under federal consumer protection laws. >>>once an item is downloaded, whether it's "good" or not, is on the purchaser's system. the item can't be returned, like with a tangible good to a regular store. nor is it the store's fault if someone doesn't like something they bought...if you didn't like the look of it in the ad picture, why buy it?<<< I think it has been determined that there are a few items where the "ad" was, at best, misleading. On one of those items, an item I felt "very disappointed" with, I relied on the previous history and work of the artist. I will live with it. I simply will not make that mistake again. Nor, as I have stated before, do I expect the artist to give me a refund when the store was the one who initially took my payment and when, it appears, the store will keep its cut regardless. As I also stated before, I understand the terms the store has chosen to operate under. I acknowledge that when I click on the button. I may not agree with them, but I also do not feel I can ask them to change the rules AFTER the fact. I knew what the rules were when I bought. I do wish the rules would change to be more in line with industry standards. However, that is not my decision. Until then, I buy from two fewer artists and, when I buy from here, I BUY KNOWING THE CHANCES I TAKE. Take care and Godspeed.

I am sorry to coma back on this item but refund is common even in the software business. A while ago I received a web cam and this cam needed a parrallel port instead of a USB port. The software was in french because I received from Montreal and FUTURE SHOP replace the camera and the software even they were in french to a USB version. I did bought Credo Interactive software and the output were not as specified (mean compatible with Poser) and they refunded me the complete cost (about $500 US). Last year I bought many motion files from Zygote, again they were some problems and they refunded me completely. When you are a good store or a good artist, you should do that. WHen I bought the Victoria expressions, I encountered some problems, I got refunded and the artist now produce them in DAZ3D and bought them back. With all comments I saw here at the store, It looks that customers and artists wnat something to change in this area but it also looks that the moderators do not do very much in this area. When JeffH said that the item are tested for at least to know if you can install the item and by his answer on the jogging suit, those items are NOT TESTED AT ALL. Nothing is done to help or protect us as customers.

The no refund policy of this online store seems to me to be the only feasible way to make store's like this work....Zygote's return policy is very generous and I am glad they have it...Their stituation though is so different from this one considering that they create so much in house for their own online store....One thing that has to be kept in mind is the idea that this is the weekend and until Monday your concerns really can't even be addressed by the store staff...I have always found they are very concerned and responsive to any problems that arise...

I do not care about a refund. It is only a few bucks. What I am really care is the quality issue and the answers from the moderators on this site. A lot of artists will do something (like answering you) when you have a problem. I bought many textures from Catharina and when I had a question or concern, she always answer me and she does great textures. Even if someone answer me positively or negatively it will not change the fact that: QUALITY IS NOT THERE. THAT'S IT!!!!!!

Again i went just for fun in the store where it has Michael JockStrap. It has three view but only the first one work, and also it said it work for MAC and if you use I believe on pC it is at your ownn risk. The question is "Does it work on PC on not at all?" Why saying at your own risk? I am fed up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

nitreug, the 3 views per item is a new feature - and i mean brand new (just this weekend in fact)! no one will have been able to put up 3 pics per item yet. all of us merchants are very concerned about the quality issue, i assure you. and the staff cares too - they are always working on ways to ensure quality/functionality, etc. cheers!

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12374&Form.ShowMessage=238546&Reply=240614#29

I have bought a total of one item here, and I will probably never buy another. I find it very annoying when I buy a $30 model and the geometry is broken. I bought Saluda and found that the saluda morph target was incorrectly built such that the geometry is broken on the left side. And we are not talking about a really minor flaw here either. Mehndi initially blames it on a texture template problem, so I emailed her an image of the figure without an textures and she never replies. Jaager admits that they found a problem with it and they are not planning to do anything about it. (At least an honest reply.) The store never even bothers to reply to my email. Due to the lack of any interest in fixing this, or even replying to my questions, I will probably never buy anything here again. I have spent a lot of money at Zygote and they have always either produced a top quality product up front or fixed it. Here, the store staff never returns emails and the creators either make pointless excuses or just ignore you. Thanks, I will go somewhere else.

I understand your frustation Kevin, I am in the same basket. Some (not all for sure) are not deliver the quality expected from a store and this store as far as I know do not do very much about it. It is bad for all great artists in this store and forum because they will suffer of that. Even myself I was buying something almost every day or other day, I decided to not buy anymore. I decided to buy directly to different site where the artist advertize their product directly. So I can contact them and get answer like Zygote....but not here.

Kevin, I have replied to your letters now repeatedely, and told you repeatedly that if it is in our power to fix what bothers you that we will, but that the fixes you seek seem to be something not at all bothering others, nor anything I can even find to fix inside Poser? I would suggest that at this stage instead of waiting on what could be a very lengthy fix, if there is even anything needing fixing, you go on and ask for a refund, please. We will all rest easier that way. You seem from the start to take exception to Saluda, since you have complained on various issues that you find yourself not feeling satisfied on from day one. Saluda is usable as advertised in Poser. She is not designed for export out into other applications. Her textures are present and assigned in Poser, they will not hold if exported without a re-setup. Her body may have a seam in it, almost every morphed body you find here in free stuff or for sale does in fact (except one new one built totally inside 3d Studio Max I am about to release), that is a by product of the morphing in Poser. All Poser morphed models have this. However Poser heals the seams. I cannot even reproduce the problems you are having in Poser, so I must assume you are trying to export out and use Saluda in other applications. I have sold hundreds of the Saluda model, and no one except you has had these complaints. Conversely, of the purchasers, frequently I do get other feedback besides yours and would like to post a small handful of the ones I have saved: "Private Message from ******: I downloaded (and bought ;)) your excellent Saluda model this morning and... IT's ABSOLUTELY FABULOUS !!! I feel like a kid in a candy store." "Private Message from : Well, I can see that. "love" is written all over her face (and body). No complaints from me. I'll be very gentle with her and try to do her justice. You did a great job, thanx again." "Private Message from : I think i've fallen in love with Saluda. She does exactly what i ask her to do. For some strange reason, she loads, poses and renders a lot faster than "Vicky" (even with the same hi res maps)..." "Saluda is a work of art!!! Seeing creations such as yours inspires me. Keep creating! -" "hi there! Just wanted to tell you I finally got a chance to play with Saluda the other day- no wonder she is such a good selling model! The amount of work you put into her shows. Thank you very much! Though I think you are underselling what she's worth ;o)-"

The problem is I got no reply. Maybe I was doing something wrong. I don't know, I have not used the figure since then. I don't buy things to complain about them, I buy them to use them. If I can't use them I will complain. All I want is for someone to tell me how to make the problem go away. Customer service consists of responding to issues such that your customers feel that you care. Its even better if you can fix their problem. But when you ignore a customer with a problem the problem doesn't generally go away. It just festers. I gave you and the store weeks to give me an answer and all I get is ignored. Nobody asked any questions to figure out what was wrong. You didn't ask for a copy of the scene or anything else, you just ignored me. And that annoys me. Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of cool stuff included in the package, but it has some issues. I got fairly fast help with the texture map issues. But to completely blow me off when I have a problem, particularly when I send you an image showing exactly what I mean, is not a way to make me happy. And I still have never heard from the store. Kevin