Quote - Of course, that was when ShareCG was actually paying their content providers. Now? Meh!

Likely because ShareCG figured out that they weren't making any money that way.  Maybe they were even losing money on such a deal.

I think that I've heard it said: "If something sounds too good to be true, then it probably is........"

Freebies are nice -- and freebie creators should be thanked for their efforts.  That's all good......

It's when certain individuals attempt to turn freebies into an ideology: and make spurious claims that freebies are somehow morally superior (snort) to another guy who's trying to feed himself off of his work: by daring to sell his products for real money (the greed-head!) -- that's when I have a problem with what's being said.

IMO, the true greed-heads are the individuals who think that they have a right to have everything handed to them for nothin'.  In reality: it's never for nothin' -- somebody else has to pay for it.

Seriously, why be upset ConnieKat8? If I come up with an idea and I'm not willing to be part of it then it means I don't believe it either. You accused me of never having done it at all.

Considering your statement about free items I suppose you go by what is posted here on Rendo' alone and that's not counting everything not even for one item by itself seeing how those are posted on more sites than just here. The figures could easily be thousands. Are there not thousands of Poser users? If not let's just pack it up and quit.

Now as far as Daz is concerned and there 1.99 Plat deals. I don't even know how many club members there are. I don't have access to their records either in no way shape or form unless they volunteer that information and besides if you're paying a monthly club fee it ain't a 1.99 but surely better than list price and I'm sure they boost sales on those items because they are cheaper while serving another purpose at the same time(bait). Fact is nobody even tries to compete on the same level really. They are the best at what they do and if they removed the Vickie line Rendo would probably dry up and blow away with them. Not going to happen I don't think.

The hot sellers get most of the spotlight in advertisement and glory. What do slow sellers get? How can those items be made more attractive if possible? I say lower the price. Personallly, I'm going to leave the big names like Aery Soul alone. I don't think his product line needs any help thus far, but others could use some savy market strategy if nothing else just to get them moving and help get other artists and names out there. They aren't going to get it in front page advertisement when they aren't worth it. People have already passed them by in the market place. It is a subject of great debate as to what things are worth anyways when they don't move in the first place. I stand by "something" is better than nothing, but maybe if they did it would remove revenues from those high price Ultra Quality High Tech Glory Props we can't build without thousands of dollars wrapped up in software that everyone likes so much. For sales that only amount into the hundreds per your word. I don't know. How many sites are those figures sold on? Lets not keep talking about Aery Soul. I have nothing against. Use a broad spectrum of top end sellers. Don't say you're sorry if you upset me please. You didn't care at the time. Most recent was simply politically correct to say that looking at you saying that from where I stand now. It means little or nothing after the lashing. I'll take your advise into consideration though. It just seems like a lose lose scenario for my end while nothing is done and nobody tries a new approach. Times change.

dogor,

Quote - > Quote - Heck, even a lot of freebies, except for the hottest ones never reach thousands of downloads. The ones that do, are either nudie oriented, or take a lot more to make then what a person would recover by selling them for a dollar-a-piece.

Umm... You've obviously not checked out the counts on ShareCG lately. I made more money as MatrixWorkz on Share CG giving away my freebies than I ever made when the same items were in a store. They were downloaded by the hundreds and thousands when they were made free. Of course, that was when ShareCG was actually paying their content providers. Now? Meh! I'm not doing much of any content creation.

If I remember right, Matrix Workz freebies are what I would consider pretty nice freebies, not exactly your run of the mill packs, and if I remember right, I've seen you/MatrixWorkz on the list of top freebie providers here on rendo more then once. It's great, but this just what I was trying to get across, thousands of downloads is well above the average performance. Not something that happens left and right to everyone.

The Rendersoity Marketplace is NWS, -- NOT Work Safe.  ^^;;;;

Yes, I feel very embrassed looking at Marketplace when I'm at work.
I would like to have Bimbo filter added to the marketplace so I can turn off those all those extreme closeups of breasts, butt cheeks, and porn star raccoon eyes faces.

Quote - Seriously, why be upset ConnieKat8? If I come up with an idea and I'm not willing to be part of it then it means I don't believe it either. You accused me of never having done it at all.

I'm not upset at all, just challenging the hypothetical statements you made.
You obviously didn't want to hear advice and suggestions from much more experienced people around here (not myself, but several others whom have been involved much longer).

So In context of your not believing them, I made a statement to the effect that, better yet (then people trying to convince you), you need to test your theory in practice.... before you can expect people will agree with or give a lot of weight to your theories.

Quote -
Freebies are nice -- and freebie creators should be thanked for their efforts.  That's all good......

It's when certain individuals attempt to turn freebies into an ideology: and make spurious claims that freebies are somehow morally superior (snort) to another guy who's trying to feed himself off of his work: by daring to sell his products for real money (the greed-head!) -- that's when I have a problem with what's being said.

IMO, the true greed-heads are the individuals who think that they have a right to have everything handed to them for nothin'.  In reality: it's never for nothin' -- somebody else has to pay for it.

Well said Xeno!!!!!   That's something that's been on my mind for a while now, and you formulated it quite well!

Quote - The Rendersoity Marketplace is NWS, -- NOT Work Safe.  ^^;;;;

Yes, I feel very embrassed looking at Marketplace when I'm at work.
I would like to have Bimbo filter added to the marketplace so I can turn off those all those extreme closeups of breasts, butt cheeks, and porn star raccoon eyes faces.

I wouldn't recommend perusing quite a few sections of the CNN, FOX News, or the Drudgereport websites & links while you are at work, either.  There are lots of images of real-life "bimbos" and 'news' stories concerning "bimbos" -- complete with pictures, video, and flash animations -- to be found on those websites.  Not to mention what you'd see on the front page of other places like Youtube.  Someone might look over your shoulder and observe you as you were looking at those webpages -- and then what would they think?

Heh -- even "Weatherbug" occasionally pops up with a bimbo picture -- front & center.

BTW - I wouldn't suggest reading War and Peace while at work, either.  Nor a novel by Charles Dickens.  Unless, perhaps, if you have a night security guard job.

Quote - > Quote -

Freebies are nice -- and freebie creators should be thanked for their efforts.  That's all good......

It's when certain individuals attempt to turn freebies into an ideology: and make spurious claims that freebies are somehow morally superior (snort) to another guy who's trying to feed himself off of his work: by daring to sell his products for real money (the greed-head!) -- that's when I have a problem with what's being said.

IMO, the true greed-heads are the individuals who think that they have a right to have everything handed to them for nothin'.  In reality: it's never for nothin' -- somebody else has to pay for it.

Well said Xeno!!!!!   That's something that's been on my mind for a while now, and you formulated it quite well!

Thanks, Connie!  BTW - you deserve to be paid -- and paid well -- for what you do.

There's a basic factor in play here: if someone wasn't making money -- then this entire 3D game wouldn't exist.  Without "filthy money" exchanging hands: then it wouldn't even be possible for our little hobby to exist.  So the "great evil" of someone turning a buck for their labors :rolleyes: -- is only right & just.  Or at least it is if people want to be able to enjoy this hobby in the first place.

*quote:I would like to have Bimbo filter added to the marketplace so I can turn off those all those extreme closeups of breasts, butt cheeks, and porn star raccoon eyes faces.

I'd only agree to that if you could also make an inverse selection where all you got was extreme closeups of breasts and butt cheeks. I like breasts and butt cheeks and I can make myself pretty much anything else I need :)

But then I work at home ...

• Rick

*"My point was I don't blame the merchants for anything they do, never meant to imply you blame them for anything.    In your original quote I think you said something to me about how I shouldn't  "blame the merchants" for something, I'd have to go back to get an exact quote as this thread has gotten rather lengthy."

I never said you blamed the merchants. I said you can't blame merchants for creating what sells as a general statment.

"Quote - "Yes it takes time, never said it didn't. I said it's not that hard to do. I model, rig and texture most of my own stuff, so yes, I do know what it takes. Lets not confuse Hard with Time. i don't think merchants get enough for thier products for the time involved. Poser users have been spoiled in that respect."

Wow - you sure do go out of your way to pick a fight don't you?  I never said anything about you not understanding how much time it takes for this stuff to take place, again merely re-enforcing the point that I* have a great deal of respect for what merchants do, and I think it ought to be up to them what sort of content they wish to create since they are the ones taking that much time to create it.  So if yet another smutty outfit for V4 is what they want to spend there time on, who am I to complain?  It's not my time and effort going into it."

No I was not going out of my way to pick a fight. You took a general statement, that I know what is involved in content creation as personal, instead of a fact for support of my opinion. LOL.

That is one problem with these forums. We can only read what is typed and not see the actual meaning because we are not speaking in person to each other. Many times we all may think something is a personal statement towards ourselfs when it was not meant to be. So no hard feelings, not picking any fights.

Quote - shrug  We don't have any major points of disagreement here.  Perhaps in some of the minor details -- but not enough to be worth expending a lot of time & effort on.

I wish you every success with your open-source Poser replacement.  If it works out as you say, then I might be interested in taking a look myself -- at that future date.  I'm always open for new software & alternatives.  That's how Poser itself got its start, after all.

So far so good at any rate, started coding the GUI and getting some of the preliminary groundwork laid, a lot of other open source projects out there to draw on as a roadmap so hopefully development will be fairly rapid, particularly after I recruit a couple of additional developers.

As far as features are concerned I have tons of ideas, things I've wanted included in Poser for a long time now but nobody ever got around to coding.  Mostly though I'd just really like something that will use Poser and DS content, run on Linux and Windows both and hopefully allow me to get rid of Poser all together at some point.

Quote - That has been the biggest holdup for me, there really aren't any good 3d rendering apps that run natively in Linux.

Heh - rendering apps in Linux I've never had a real problem with (e.g. 3Delight, POV-Ray, etc)... it's the damned compositing apps that can read the metric ton of poser content I have that's a screaming bitch. :)

It's sort of why I bought a Mac long ago in the first place... now that the old dual G5 is starting to show its age (gracefully, but still...), I'm looking for replacements. A Linux machine will do just fine for me :)

/P

Quote - >> I have an annoying tendency to define liberty in my own way.

You also have an annoying tendency of wearing very convenient blinders and singing LA LA LA LA VERY LOUDLY when you dont want to see the point being made.

Now why does that sound familiar...?

Quote - I have said, several times over in this thread, that I have no issue with the people who want to do nothing but the pretty girl renders. I have no issue with the merchants who continually supply them the means to do it.

My issue is what it's done to this program and the user base in the long run.

I wouldn't be so quick to pronounce doom on that. As someone in up to his eyeballs (almost daily) in the cheesecake (and other semi-solid bits) of Poserdom, I have to say that while yeah, 'pretty girl' renders sell, they're anything but alone in what sells. A huge portion of R'otica's Premier portion of the site shows an even balance, and a goodly proportion besides shows all-male figures as the centerpiece.

I think what you're experiencing is the fact that Poserdom, as you see it, is not validating what you think to be the aesthetic norm. Before you get your panties in a knot about sexual orientation, know that I'm merely saying that you, subjectively, do not like what you see (that is, a vast majority of Poserdom being perceived as being a bit too fixated on the female figure).

Well... sorry about that, but IMHO, it reflects society at large. When's the last time you saw an advert with a rugged guy draping himself seductively over the side of a coupe? I'll go ahead and answer that one for you: Never.

It's the society you live in. If you find this revolting, I suggest relocating to Saudi Arabia, where such things as half-naked chicks on artwork isn't really allowed. Sorry, but that's what we live in, so your scope of change extends a wee bit beyond Poserdom, y'know?

Quote -
Enough. I'm turning off the bots. It's been fun, folks.

Enjoy the time off...

/P

"When's the last time you saw an advert with a rugged guy draping himself seductively over the side of a coupe? I'll go ahead and answer that one for you: Never".

Guess you didn't see that Super Bowl commercial of the guys striping down on the street for the Chev advert? Or the one I saw last night. Another car advert. All these sumo wrestlers giving the car a good washing, the same way they film big breasted, bikini clad women. Ow, my poor eyes.

Quote - "When's the last time you saw an advert with a rugged guy draping himself seductively over the side of a coupe? I'll go ahead and answer that one for you: Never".

Guess you didn't see that Super Bowl commercial of the guys striping down on the street for the Chev advert? Or the one I saw last night. Another car advert. All these sumo wrestlers giving the car a good washing, the same way they film big breasted, bikini clad women. Ow, my poor eyes.

The ads which you are describing sound like jokes -- they are treating the subject matter as a parody of itself.  Sort of like the way that men dressing up in women's clothes is often regarded as a big, funny joke -- whereas, by contrast, women dressing up in men's clothes isn't usually considered to be particularly humorous.

Some Like It Hot (Marilyn Monroe, Tony Curtis, Jack Lemmon), or I Was A Male War Bride (Cary Grant), and Tootsie (Dustin Hoffman) were all comedies -- but the opposite theme of Yentl wasn't particularly funny (I don't find anything with "Babs" in it to be funny -- or even worth watching -- but that's a totally different topic........)

Those car commercials most definitely aren't the norm.  They are a satirical take on the norm -- which serves to prove the norm.  Satire, in order to be truly funny, has to be an exaggeration or a twist on something real.  Not on something totally imaginary.

*Heck, even a lot of freebies, except for the hottest ones never reach thousands of downloads. The ones that do, are either nudie oriented, or take a lot more to make then what a person would recover by selling them for a dollar-a-piece.

*I have eight freebies at the moment and five of them are downloaded more than a thousand times, three of them even more then a two thousand times. If I got a dollar for every download, I would earn more than eigth thousand dollars. Even with my €50,- / hour wages it would be sufficient to cover the time I spent on them to make it. And only two of them I would consider hot. But I consider Poser and making items for it as a hobby, which won't be spoiled by going commercial. If I wanted to make items for selling, I would have to be rather limited in choosing my subjects to be a succesfull merchandist.
But is it so? About 80% (or more) of the renderosity market is focused on the Vicky  (3 or 4) figure, which also means that 80% of the vendors is focused on V3/4, which means there's an opportunity to get some profit of the other 20% of the market. Some part of that 20% market, like props and scenes isn't depended on hypes like Vicky4 or Miki2.
There will always be some new hot and awesome models that will rule the market, but there also be a continuous demand on furniture, vehicles, props etcetera. I'm sure it won't give you "fast" money, but on the long term it will pay itself.

Best regards,

Bopper.

Quote - > Quote - "When's the last time you saw an advert with a rugged guy draping himself seductively over the side of a coupe? I'll go ahead and answer that one for you: Never".

Guess you didn't see that Super Bowl commercial of the guys striping down on the street for the Chev advert? Or the one I saw last night. Another car advert. All these sumo wrestlers giving the car a good washing, the same way they film big breasted, bikini clad women. Ow, my poor eyes.

The ads which you are describing sound like jokes -- they are treating the subject matter as a parody of itself.  Sort of like the way that men dressing up in women's clothes is often regarded as a big, funny joke -- whereas, by contrast, women dressing up in men's clothes isn't usually considered to be particularly humorous.

Pretty much... using humor to sell is different than using sex to sell. Point still stands - thx muchly for catching it.

Incidentally, women dressed in mens' clothing --esp. scanitly-- isn't humorous... it's frickin' HOT!.

Oh, sorry... did I let that out? My bad.

/P

*Incidentally, women dressed in mens' clothing --esp. scanitly-- isn't humorous... it's frickin' HOT!.

Specially men's dress shirt and a pair of knee high socks!

Quote - Those car commercials most definitely aren't the norm.  They are a satirical take on the norm -- which serves to prove the norm.  Satire, in order to be truly funny, has to be an exaggeration or a twist on something real.  Not on something totally imaginary.

I agree with you. I was joking about the commercials and the word Never. Comedy or not, it does happen.

*Or even sport jersies. LOL

Beautiful!  That's what I'm talkin' about!

Quote - *Heck, even a lot of freebies, except for the hottest ones never reach thousands of downloads. The ones that do, are either nudie oriented, or take a lot more to make then what a person would recover by selling them for a dollar-a-piece.

*I have eight freebies at the moment and five of them are downloaded more than a thousand times, three of them even more then a two thousand times. If I got a dollar for every download, I would earn more than eigth thousand dollars.

However, one freebie download doesn't equate to one sale. The ratio is more like 100:1  If an item has 2000 downloads as a freebie, it might sell in 20-50 copies if it was a low priced sale item.

This is what I was getting at, trying to explain to Dogor, that the buying habits in poserdom don't equate to thousands of purchases per item, no matter how low the price is, and no matter how popular the item is, or both.

The reason I brought up freebies is to show that even freestuff, which gets downloaded a hundred times more then purchase items, barely getting into several hundred, or couple thousand or so downloads.

If freebie downloads were in tens of thousands or hundred thousands, then one could hope that purchase items (dollar item) sales would be in several hundreds to couple of thousand, and would make the dollar item theory worth while.

What I gather from couple informed sources that I quizzed and researched as a merchant is that there is around 3000 or so active content purchasing users out there, TOTAL... spread around DAZ, Rendo RDNA and couple other content selling sites.

*What I gather from couple informed sources that I quizzed and researched as a merchant is that there is around 3000 or so active content purchasing users out there, TOTAL... spread around DAZ, Rendo RDNA and couple other content selling sites.

My informed sources just told me about your informed sources,  they say they're wrong it's 3001.5

>> Before you get your panties in a knot about sexual orientation, know that I'm merely saying

Oh gosh, Tom, NOTHIN' wrong with prefacing things like that, huh? Yessir, that just inspires ALL kind of confidence in whatever the hell you choose to write next -- which, trust me, clearly wasnt worth my time.

I wondered when you'd stick your nose in for a few cheap shots, all nicely couched with "now I'm not saying anything bad about gay people, nossir, not me." Nice to see you didnt disappoint.

So, Mr. "I'm Heterosexual And Aint It Grand", how about reading the thread from the beginning instead of barging in in the middle and assuming as you usually do, that you know EVERYTHING about what's being discussed. Had you, instead of your usual jerk-knee-into-chin one-size-fits-all reaction to just about anything I write, you might have figured out that it's not your usual "Hey, it's a heterosexual world, and not everyone wants to see a hunky guy draped across a car!" I could give a rat's ass about what you do or do not want to see. I could give a rat's ass about the Poserdom obsession with a particular character mesh. But hey, it means understanding things that you clearly dont give a damn about, because they dont fit into yout neat little definition of how the Poser Universe According to Tom is supposed to operate.

This is not news, Tommy boy. You're really late with the Startling Revelations this time around. Go back to the beginning of all this, before Xeno had to stick his nose in with his usual troll-like comments, and you might -- might, you understand -- discover (wow! shock! amazement!) that it's ever so slightly deeper than your usual "oh, he's just a fag, deal with it, queenie" commentaries.

So stick it, self-righteous one, preferably someplace that not even the sluttiest gay man would go near. You're just proving yourtself clueless and one-dimensional as usual.

God, it's assholes like you that have killed any enjoyment I might have ever had with this community, with your holier-than-thou commentaries that, apparently, always guarantee a good laugh or two at whatever trash forum you hang at these days. Thanks, Tom. Really appreciate it. Should I ever get out youtr way, trust me, I'll take great pleasure in delivering that appreciation personally.

Oh, but dont get your jock strap in a bunch over it, huh?

Screw this place.

Quote -
God, it's assholes like you that have killed any enjoyment I might have ever had with this community, with your holier-than-thou commentaries that, apparently, always guarantee a good laugh or two at whatever trash forum you hang at these days. Thanks, Tom. Really appreciate it. Should I ever get out youtr way, trust me, I'll take great pleasure in delivering that appreciation personally.

Oh, but dont get your jock strap in a bunch over it, huh?

Screw this place.

Sean, you really need to learn eventually to take responsibility for managing your own feelings, and stop blaming them on everyone else. Noone can make you feel a certain way without your own permission.
You may think you're trashing Penguinisto or someone else, whomever it is you're fighting with this time, but all youl're doing is exposing your own emotional immaturity... which is at rather alarming levels for an adult.

Quote - If I remember right, Matrix Workz freebies are what I would consider pretty nice freebies, not exactly your run of the mill packs, and if I remember right, I've seen you/MatrixWorkz on the list of top freebie providers here on rendo more then once. It's great, but this just what I was trying to get across, thousands of downloads is well above the average performance. Not something that happens left and right to everyone.

Thanks. I never paid any attention to the top freebie provider lists so I was never aware I'd made it to that list. The Dynamic clothing freebies I was churning out made with VF Fashion 1 and some Zbrush and texturing work  didn't overwhelm me in the least and I could churn out at least one a day using the methodolgy I was using with those programs.

The Jupiter 2 Project of course was a lot more work and not all of it my own. Still, there are enough needs for simple freebies out there that one could make a living selling them for a buck or two apiece if they sold in the thousands. So many small scene filler knick knacks could be made that are currently absent that someone could make a small fortune on a site like that if it existed.

Nobody's going to get rich on Poser Content though except maybe DAZ or some other market place owner living off the backs of the content providers. I chose not to get worked up over it anymore. I'll still release freebies as I make them but without the incentive I had from ShareCG, I won't be nearly as prolific.

Quote - It's when certain individuals attempt to turn freebies into an ideology: and make spurious claims that freebies are somehow morally superior (snort) to another guy who's trying to feed himself off of his work: by daring to sell his products for real money (the greed-head!) -- that's when I have a problem with what's being said.

IMO, the true greed-heads are the individuals who think that they have a right to have everything handed to them for nothin'.  In reality: it's never for nothin' -- somebody else has to pay for it.

No offense Xeno, but I don't know who these "Certain individuals" are that you're talking about but sometimes you really seem to go out of your way to offend them and others with some of the attitude I see in your posts.

Frankly, Poser was founded on a sharing ideology and I'm one of the people who miss that about the community. Yeah someone has to foot the bills for bandwidth. That's a fact of life. But it can be done a lot less offensively if you ask me.

Regardless of how Sean may or may not react I found penny's comment alarmingly ignorant as well, sounds like the usual beer drinking idiot "Hey lets get drunk and go shoot our guns yuk yuk". And while we're at it got anything to say about African americans penny? You certainly sound the type. Sounds to me like you have a problem with your manhood penny.Whats wrong can't face who you really are?

Keep it civil.

*The Jupiter 2 Project of course was a lot more work and not all of it my own. Still, there are enough needs for simple freebies out there that one could make a living selling them for a buck or two apiece if they sold in the thousands. So many small scene filler knick knacks could be made that are currently absent that someone could make a small fortune on a site like that if it existed.

• That's just it, they wouldn't sell in thousands. Couple hundred perhaps. Not thousands.
  I'm involved with a sale site right now that has th ability to sell dollar items, and the owner has tried. You don't get your regular audiences coming for dollar items in droves.
  http://purokc-creations.net/allprods.php

Look at the price list, there's a number of items there priced at $1 or $2. I see what our sales are. People aren't clamoring for $1 or $2 items. What they are clamoring for is freebies and new items of good quality.

Also, there's number of themed packs of props, if I remember right faveral and mapps are both doing it. Things like western bric-a-brac, or nautical bric-a-brac etc... packing a set with a dozen or more props to fill the scenes with.
Here's one of Faverals pieces: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=30524&vendor=57980
I see several other of his pieces are no longer on the market here on rendo - unfortunately.

It's all fine and dandy in theory... what I'm trying to explain is that in practice, I see no evidence to support this theory.

Quote - That's just it, they wouldn't sell in thousands. Couple hundred perhaps. Not thousands.
I'm involved with a sale site right now that has th ability to sell dollar items, and the owner has tried. You don't get your regular audiences coming for dollar items in droves.
http://purokc-creations.net/allprods.php

I understood what you said  the first time. I was merely pointing out that freebies had reached the levels of thousands when you said they hadn't. I agree that they wouldn't be nearly as effective as merchandise. I never have understood the mentality that if it's cheap it's crap and I won't buy it, but I know that it's a prevading mentality in the market place none the less. People will download free crap in the thousands but will they buy it for a dollar? Not likely.

Quote - And while we're at it got anything to say about African americans penny?

Who is penny and since when is gender, race or sexual orientation an acceptable excuse for crappy behavior?

Well before the topic get's locked, just thought I'd pop in and say I am indeed LostInSpaceMan's DBA account name. I originally made the Screen name because I thought I'd try being a merchant and I wanted a DBA (Doing Business As) name that I would register in my state. Obviously, my dreams of being a merchant were grander than I had the energy to spend on them. No worries. I still enjoy being a hobbiest freebie maker.

Quote - > Quote - And while we're at it got anything to say about African americans penny?

Who is penny and since when is gender, race or sexual orientation an acceptable excuse for crappy behavior?

EXACTLY so leave it out of the conversation!

Quote -  I was merely pointing out that freebies had reached the levels of thousands when you said they hadn't.

I didn't say they hadn't. I said more succesful ones reach thousands. There is a lot more of those that didn't reach thousands of downloads then those that have.

Look at a page 100 of freebies for example. They are freebies which have been around for at least 6 months.  You don't see most of pieces on the page reaching and going over a thousand. You have one or two out of 20.  Kay in any page number for freebies, and the situation is very similar. There's maybe one or two on the page that have reached a thousand.

It's certainly not an average occurence, to have freebies reach thousand or so downloads - which was my point all along.

This doesn't mean that there are no freebies out there that have reached thousands, and I never said it doesn't happen. It only happens to what looks to be about 20% of the freebies. 20% is far from the norm. You'd need something a lot closer to 50% before you can call it a normal occurence.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - And while we're at it got anything to say about African americans penny?

Who is penny and since when is gender, race or sexual orientation an acceptable excuse for crappy behavior?

EXACTLY so leave it out of the conversation!

You're the one that brought it up.

Hey Tashar59

Got a render of her in a cheerleader outfit?

Quote - > Quote -  I was merely pointing out that freebies had reached the levels of thousands when you said they hadn't.

I didn't say they hadn't. I said more succesful ones reach thousands. There is a lot more of those that didn't reach thousands of downloads then those that have.

Look at a page 100 of freebies for example. They are freebies which have been around for at least 6 months.  You don't see most of pieces on the page reaching and going over a thousand. You have one or two out of 20.  Kay in any page number for freebies, and the situation is very similar. There's maybe one or two on the page that have reached a thousand.

It's certainly not an average occurence, to have freebies reach thousand or so downloads - which was my point all along.

This doesn't mean that there are no freebies out there that have reached thousands, and I never said it doesn't happen. It only happens to what looks to be about 20% of the freebies. 20% is far from the norm. You'd need something a lot closer to 50% before you can call it a normal occurence.

Ok so I missunderstood you. Typical of me sometimes. But if you're going by just the Rendo counts, my point still stands. What may only show in the tens or hundreds here actually do show up in the hundreds and thousands on ShareCG because the freebies are "Linked to" from more than just this one site. My own freebies were advertised and put in freebie sections on multiple sites and also posted as links in forum threads. This goes for freebies hosted on other sites as well.

I merely pointed to that site for a more accurate view of how the freebies were performing. Also, people post links to their freebies in the forums so you're not going to get an accurate count from any one site's freebie listings except for the site that hosts them.

Quote- "So In context of your not believing them, I made a statement to the effect that, better yet (then people trying to convince you), you need to test your theory in practice.... before you can expect people will agree with or give a lot of weight to your theories."

Yes theories, but money is getting tight. We'll see if the hottest can maintain hundreds. I think even Daz is going to have to tighten the belt and run more sales. Even that's just another of my theories right now isn't it? Also, are rendo's over all sales lately down or up? What about CP? Or Runtime DNA. What's the feeling around the whole community?

*What's the feeling around the whole community?

I don't know,  let's ask the captain of the football team or the head cheerleader.

Quote - *What's the feeling around the whole community?

I don't know,  let's ask the captain of the football team or the head cheerleader.

I dunno but this cheer leader skirt is chafing me in unmentionable places with the panties that come with it!

Quote -
Ok so I missunderstood you. Typical of me sometimes. But if you're going by just the Rendo counts, my point still stands. What may only show in the tens or hundreds here actually do show up in the hundreds and thousands on ShareCG because the freebies are "Linked to" from more than just this one site. My own freebies were advertised and put in freebie sections on multiple sites and also posted as links in forum threads. This goes for freebies hosted on other sites as well.

I merely pointed to that site for a more accurate view of how the freebies were performing. Also, people post links to their freebies in the forums so you're not going to get an accurate count from any one site's freebie listings except for the site that hosts them.

Renderosity is a pretty good cross section of what happens in poserdom.  I'm very familiar with Share CG, and I'm also very familiar with the practice of inflating download numbers there as well.

What I do know is that DAZ and Rendo combined account for a large majority of poserdom traffic. Theer are many published numbers about this.

But, let's look at Share CG, it appears tha tthere is around 250 or so pages if poser freebies there. Soert them by number of views, and look at about half - page 100.
http://sharecg.com/b/11/Poser/?keywords=&s=vd&pn=100

Most items there have close to 600 vievs, and downloads for those items are under 100. This shows a lower average for downloads then what I was counting as average on rendo. It shows that most middle of th road freebies on share CG don't avearge around a 100. I was looking at an average of around 300 or so on Rendo.

We're also not looking for an 'accurate count' but looking for a belieavable statistical cross section. Rendeosity numbers are handy for the conversation, and can certainly offer a believable statistical cross section of what happens with freebies and sales in poserdom.

Quote - Most items there have close to 600 vievs, and downloads for those items are under 100. This shows a lower average for downloads then what I was counting as average on rendo. It shows that most middle of th road freebies on share CG don't avearge around a 100. I was looking at an average of around 300 or so on Rendo.

You're not getting a true image of views versus downloads from that particular number at all though. They didn't add the "Download" counter til AFTER they stopped paying out for views. It doesn't include any of the downloads made before that counter was added. The Download counter was added, hopefully for when they restart revenue sharing to pay per download instead of pay per view. It's not a true count for items added before the counter was installed.

Quote - > Quote - It's when certain individuals attempt to turn freebies into an ideology: and make spurious claims that freebies are somehow morally superior (snort) to another guy who's trying to feed himself off of his work: by daring to sell his products for real money (the greed-head!) -- that's when I have a problem with what's being said.

IMO, the true greed-heads are the individuals who think that they have a right to have everything handed to them for nothin'.  In reality: it's never for nothin' -- somebody else has to pay for it.

No offense Xeno, but I don't know who these "Certain individuals" are that you're talking about but sometimes you really seem to go out of your way to offend them and others with some of the attitude I see in your posts.

Frankly, Poser was founded on a sharing ideology and I'm one of the people who miss that about the community. Yeah someone has to foot the bills for bandwidth. That's a fact of life. But it can be done a lot less offensively if you ask me.

No offense taken.  Trust me -- I'm very hard to offend.  At least in that way.  BTW - people who are easily offended should really consider staying out of the forums.  For the sake of their own peace of mind.

As for who those "certain people" are -- oh -- "certain individuals" who regularly claim that a commercial motive in Poserdom is somehow a moral evil -- an evil which can only be cured by giving things away.  The problem with that line of thinking is that it simply isn't possible as a realistic construct.  Without an income -- the providers don't eat -- the altruistically-driven business goes out of business.

Like most ideologies -- "freebies only" is a great-sounding utopian ideal -- which wouldn't have the proverbial snowball's chance of actually working in the real world.

I repeat: the true "greed-heads" are those who expect that they have a right to be spoon fed for life by others.......which is the very essence of "greed".  Those who work and expect to be paid for their work aren't greedy -- but those who want things handed over to them for nothing are greedy.  If that's offensive to hear.......then there is a reason.

Quote - So, Mr. "I'm Heterosexual And Aint It Grand", how about reading the thread from the beginning instead of barging in in the middle and assuming as you usually do, that you know EVERYTHING about what's being discussed. Had you, instead of your usual jerk-knee-into-chin one-size-fits-all reaction to just about anything I write, you might have figured out that it's not your usual "Hey, it's a heterosexual world, and not everyone wants to see a hunky guy draped across a car!" I could give a rat's ass about what you do or do not want to see. I could give a rat's ass about the Poserdom obsession with a particular character mesh. But hey, it means understanding things that you clearly dont give a damn about, because they dont fit into yout neat little definition of how the Poser Universe According to Tom is supposed to operate.

Ok, couple of things here - first, I am heterosexual and yes, it is pretty grand.  I rather like it.  But hey, if your not, whatever floats your boat.

Second, I read through his post a couple of times and I'm sorry but I just didn't see anything that warranted this kind of response.  The fact that most ads that use sex as a selling point are aimed at men is a fact.  This might have something to do with the fact that on average men think about sex a lot more than women, and that homosexuals are a very small portion of the population as a whole so advertising specifically geared towards them probably isn't something your going to see a lot in the mainstream.  There's nothing "anti-gay" or really anti-anything about bringing this up, it's simply a fact of life.

Quote - This is not news, Tommy boy. You're really late with the Startling Revelations this time around. Go back to the beginning of all this, before Xeno had to stick his nose in with his usual troll-like comments, and you might -- might, you understand -- discover (wow! shock! amazement!) that it's ever so slightly deeper than your usual "oh, he's just a fag, deal with it, queenie" commentaries.

Again, I didn't see anything of this nature in his posting, and had I seen such a thing I would have been writing a pretty scathing commentary about it myself.  About the only "comment" I could find that was questionable in this regard was the one about getting one's panties in a bunch, however this is a fairly common expression and I think you might be reading a lot more into it than what was intended. 

Quote - So stick it, self-righteous one, preferably someplace that not even the sluttiest gay man would go near. You're just proving yourtself clueless and one-dimensional as usual.

God, it's assholes like you that have killed any enjoyment I might have ever had with this community, with your holier-than-thou commentaries that, apparently, always guarantee a good laugh or two at whatever trash forum you hang at these days. Thanks, Tom. Really appreciate it. Should I ever get out youtr way, trust me, I'll take great pleasure in delivering that appreciation personally.

Oh, but dont get your jock strap in a bunch over it, huh?

Screw this place.

Well I hope you reread his posting and reconsider, I hate for anyone to leave Renderosity and I'd especially hate to see anyone leave over something like this - this doesn't appear to me to be anything like the personal attack you wish to categorize it as.

*I dunno but this cheer leader skirt is chafing me in unmentionable places with the panties that come with it!

Have you tried pantyliners?

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote - And while we're at it got anything to say about African americans penny?

Who is penny and since when is gender, race or sexual orientation an acceptable excuse for crappy behavior?

EXACTLY so leave it out of the conversation!

You're the one that brought it up.

"Before you get your panties in a knot about sexual orientation," and so on and so forth blah blah blah

Anytime sean is part of a thread here comes penny with his usual and shall we all chime in.  I think sean hit it right on the head. Inuendo and beatin around the bush its still the same thing, if you're going to attack someone at least stand up and do it.

Quote - If that's offensive to hear.......then there is a reason.

See, now I could have agreed with most of that post til you added this last remark. Passive aggressive prodding much? It's just these little asides that lower the value of your posts to me. You could say what you have to without using all these little snide addendums.

Quote - *I dunno but this cheer leader skirt is chafing me in unmentionable places with the panties that come with it!

Have you tried pantyliners?

Just my Depends. :tt2:

Quote - > Quote - If that's offensive to hear.......then there is a reason.

See, now I could have agreed with most of that post til you added this last remark. Passive aggressive prodding much? It's just these little asides that lower the value of your posts to me. You could say what you have to without using all these little snide addendums.

No problem-o.  Sometimes -- in order to make a point: it's necessary to make a point.  Even at the risk of offending sensitive natures.  BTW - my 'style' is my own.  And --right or wrong -- you are free to take what you want, and to leave / ignore the rest.  It won't offend me.

And it's what I do.