I have dealt with Daz since I've been here and I have to say for the most part their customer service has been very swell. I don't think it's fair to say that newbies should be suspicious of them, or their motives. I am not sure why anyone would buy $1000 worth of stuff at one time, without testing the waters first, but oh well. My only fault with Daz and advice to Newbies is to wait for sales or seriously marked down items if you can. Daz has a tendency to take expensive items and suddenly make them part of some giveaway, causing you to eat the cash that you'd spent a month and a half before. ShadowWind

You guys have got to see the email I just got from this waste of space. I would love to post it, but it would violate every term of service here. Anyone want a good laugh, send me an email online here and I will forward it. I guess warning, contains harsh language and suggestive situations.

I have bought a few of Daz's products and I find them to be very reasonable. Like the Mimic Pro. The price went way down and quality went way up. I also bought the new Michael and the Cartoon figures. I haven't tried these out yet but they sure loaded into Poser without a hitch. On the other hand, I think that ChaosOutlaw is absolutly right about when you start, you begin to believe that Daz is the only place in town and you should be buying from them exclusively! To add to that fact is the fact that I don't own or have purchased any other products but from Daz. Since reading the treads over here and looking over the marketplace here at renderosity I was beginning to think about perhaps buying some software from vendors here at Renderosity. I never thought of buying any characters because Daz is the only one that produces any good ones. That was until I read post #3 from Sixus1. I think I will be checking out your site Sixus and see your characters for sale. Your right, Daz isn't the only game in town for clothes or characters. Thanks... PS: You should post your stores URL!

I had just recently purchased and downloaded V3 and the Morph Packs from DAZ. Before I had a chance to make a backup copy my computer crashed. I emailed DAZ and within 24 hrs I was able to redownload. This is only my second purchase from them and as far as I'm concerned they have pretty good customer service. I agree with one of the previous posts that it helps if you have broadband. Downloading makes things easier, and they give you at least 3 attempts. In my opinion that is more than most people need,(I was able to get it in one).

Attached Link: http://www.sixus1.com

Attached Link: http://www.sixus1.com/

Wow. Lot of responses on this site. First off Im not going to repeat myself much I hope. Ive made my feelings pretty plain with this post. I would like to add some things though. Some of what these folks are saying is true. I was in a rage the other day when all this happened at the DAZ forums. This rage was not over 1 item or problem. It was also the culmination of 6 weeks worth of frustration with DAZ and my bad experience with them. Did I handle the situation very well. No I didnt. I let my emotions control me and said a whole lot of things I probably should have said better or not at all. I cant change that now. I will apologize for some of it. Especially to the people that I offended unintentionally. But I did try to resolve the matter the correct way with no success before the blow up happened. Some of you folks are right in that I did disregard what you were saying even though you were trying to help me. Let me tell you why. Because most of you were saying the same thing or this is how I saw it. DAZ is great, just relax, the problems are yours and noone elses be patient and they will help you. Well I was tired of hearing that because as Ive stated, for the several weeks prior to this explosion I had been just that, patient. I was tired of being patient. I tried doing things politely and got nowhere. Thus this happened. Is it my fault? Yes it is partly and I accept that. But the blame is not all mine. And from the posts here I can see Im finally also getting others who agree partly with why Im so angry and not just praising DAZ. These folks know there are problems with DAZ and arent afraid to admit them. I cant change what Ive done and now I guess Ill have to deal with that. So be it. Doesnt change the fact that my problems with DAZ are righteous. I really want to thank you folks for all your replies cuz I do read and absorb them when Im calm. I dont want to alienate this community completely so I hope those of you who understand where I am coming from will forgive me. Id like to just come on here and be happy but my experiences with DAZ so far have prevented that. I will try to think out my posts and replies before I post them from now on as I have done today so as not to offend anyone further. I look forward to at least an amicable future with most of you. I do have to inject some snottiness here though. Ryamka you are an insignificant little flea whom if he spoke to me in person the way you spoke to me here that I would swat. Ex army rangers like me just love swatting bugs like you. Just like some of the things I said the other day on the DAZ forums were ignorant your post was written to do nothing other than cause trouble. You were hoping that I would blow up in the open forum and cause a big scene. Not gonna happen. Ive learned my lesson. I will keep my thoughts, other than those stated here for a private message to you. And from the private messages Ive gotten here on this post and in words in the posts others have said to you Ive learned that you like to do that you are a trouble maker. At least the trouble Im causing stems from something righteous. Im sorry to spoil your Sunday sissy but it didnt work. I would really like to mend my fences with most of you that I have offended. I will try to think out my posts before I just go writing them. As to my feelings and vocalizations on DAZ until I see some improvement, not promises, from them then I cant promise not to make negative posts about DAZ. I will, as I said, try to make the posts more to the point and less just me slamming DAZ without getting to the point. Im hoping this will at least calm the tide and maybe change your opinions of me. I dont like being infamous. I, like you all, am addicted to poser now and just want to have it and the items I buy for it work without problems. Im having enough problems with the program itself. :o) PS there are so many posts here that I didnt read them all but I thought I saw something about telling folks not to buy products for poser. I never said that. Im saying that they should go elsewhere because DAZ is not the only game in town. Oh and I dont have a better internet connection because Im too lazy to get one its not a matter of finance. I would still order hard copies even if I had a better connection.

I'm on dial-up, I have no choice. I wouldn't be able to walk after a drive to find another computer. Some of us do live in out of the way places and like it.I don't think telling people to get a better connection helps. That said. Yes I have had email not answered from Daz, rare, but it happens. I give them a call and thing are fixed in short order, not a problem. I have a lot of respect for Daz. They have treated me very well. 8 weeks with P5 is not very long. I find many products that need tweeking to work right in P5 from all markets. I don't get upset, I try to pay attention to what other P5 users are doing. A simple question on a forum can harvest many answers. You do need to try them to see if they work. It saves on the hair. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Thanks Beryld. Good post. I have had no problems with P5 and items other than those at DAZ so I dont think its my program. Someone also sent me a private saying it might be my pc. Well Ive loaded Poser on my labtop and went to my fathers house and loaded it onto his pc and have the same problems so its the software not my hardware. And as to P5 you folks selling items and making it seem like there should be no problems using it with the versions of Poser from 4 up should have to put a big red flag on your products saying this has not been tested or is known to have problems in P5. And most of them do make it seem like you should have no problems using the products with P5. Funny thing is I have not had any problems with P5 and my pc other than those I purchased at DAZ. P5 is what got me into this in the first place. And its whats going to get a lot more new users into this in the future so P5 is here to stay and you guys have to realize that and begin to embrace it. God I hope this doesnt offend anyone offhand. Im scared to type anything cuz whatever I say gets misconstrued.

• passes a feedbag of popcorn to Ironbear, whom I just know is reading this *

"Ryamka you are an insignificant little flea whom if he spoke to me in person the way you spoke to me here that I would swat. Ex army rangers like me just love swatting bugs like you." Sorry pal, you just lost the last bit of respect I might have had for you with that remark. It is even against the TOS here and it's against every common netiquette too. 8 weeks with Poser 5? How many days here?

Daz is a great company and I will shop with them anytime, but yeah I agree the CD service is lacking. They really do need to spot check these things before sticking them in the mail.

I took screen shots of my DAZ order and the CD when it arrived. As you can see, 2 items were missing and 2 files on the CD didn't work. A quick check of the CD after it was burned would have revealed that box instead of an .exe installer of the house mouse textures, and could have been fixed before shipping. A count of the products on the CD against the order should also be done.

Daz fixed it up quick with download links and I appreciate it, but dangit, I paid the extra $15 so I wouldn't HAVE to download the stuff since I was on dial up at the time. I feel that I should have been offered a replacement CD.

I will say that my CD orders from Rosity and DSI have been perfect every time. Maybe Daz could take some tips from them? :o)

Considering how much rabid condemnation of Curious Labs has clogged up the forum over the last year, I can't undersatand why a little Dash-bashing can't happen once in a while. Say whatever you like (within TOS limitations) ChaosOutlaw. It's refreshing. -jjsemp

Well I guess I let my anger rule me after all. Im sorry that I upset you with my comment you mentioned Erny. This guy was just trying to be a jerk and I guess I did let him pull my strings a little. Was going to remove that part from my post but this site doesnt have an edit feature. I also didnt know that was against the TOS. I do now. Wont happen again. Im learning, seems like Im learning it all the hard way, but I am learning. I dont feel bad about what I said to this jerk but I am sorry that I have offended yet another member of the poser community. I cant seem to win for losing. I should have just left the angry comments in the private message I sent him or is it against TOS to speak your mind freely in those as well?

You say NOW you know, and yet you insult him again, and break TOS again????? Can you spell TROLL?

You are able to speak your mind freely....but please try & refrain from name calling, that is not a good thing....I know I'm taking this to the extreme here, however, if you think about it, wars get started over simple things like this. I'm not a peace-nik or anything close but come on, is a CD or whatever worth this kind of BS...I THINK NOT!!!! I always try & stay positive & usually refrain from commenting on some of the ugliness that happens here & other places periodically but obviously this time I can't. Problems get resolved thru calm, rational discussions NOT name calling...Look at what it has gotten you.....The answer is????? IMHO - trying to scare newbies of DAZ is, well ridiculous. There are plenty of people & resources available thru MANY forums that could advise you properly. As being a newbie a while back....I lurked & got the feel for how things work before I chimed in on anything. And even now I pick my discussions carefully. However...I'm sure I'll be flamed somehow for this post for exaggerating, but I'm just trying to make a point. Everyone have a great night:)

I see. I just cant win so I give up. Think what you want of me ok. And how am I troll when all Im doing is keeping an eye on the post that I started? And you cant call someone a jerk when they are being a jerk? These places have some strange rules. But whatever. Ive turned off the email me function so I wont know when someone replies which is what kept bringing me back to MY post. I can tell by your tone your one of the folks I offended and it seems permanently. So be it. Im through apologizing and with this post. You folks have the right to say what you want but because I am at this moment the bad guy I cannot. So be it. Ive gotten what I wanted out of the post which is to bring attention to the problems I am having and while I may have been a little overboard with my posts at least I see that Im not the only one having problems. And you all see that there are problems. Good night and to most of you have a pleasant evening.

You can always go back to USENET... I checked the DAZ forum and you did sound like you know A LOT about what's offered there... "As I said Id rather waste my time downloading their products from usenet for free than pay for things and not have them work." Isn't that what you wrote? Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

'As being a newbie a while back....I lurked & got the feel for how things work before I chimed in on anything. And even now I pick my discussions carefully. However...I'm sure I'll be flamed somehow for this post for exaggerating, but I'm just trying to make a point' Nope, dlk. I don't think you'd be flamed for speaking out in a polite and sensible manner. Very well put. mac

TY Mac!!!! :)...name calling gets anybody nowhere...very very sad that a simple problem has turned into what??? I'll quote Clint Eastwood here "a cluster f!@#k" From Heartbreak Ridge, one of my favorite war movies. LOL

ChaosOutlaw, not that you will see this post with all the other ones here, whewy, took a while for me to read, but anyway, being a merchant myself, I am sorry you have not had an easy time with DAZ. I just know as far as modelers go, I have seen exceptional works from Sixus1, Daz, RDNA, and Renderosity. I mean exceptional work. I am constently blown away from these people. Since it seems to me that you are really upset with their customer service you got their attention and hopefully all will end better for you. But I just wanted to post a note regarding the quality of models around here. I have seen many who are just starting and need to learn, I have seen experts that help the newbies, who will grow. Quality is seen here and at the places I stated above, and even in more areas, 3D Commune, Poserworld, PoserProps etc. You want quality and customer service we do try, it can get hecktic and I wish you the best, I want to say be patient, but I see you have been, but maybe a little more will help you out. Again I am sorry you are having a rough time. Sharen

Chaos....what you should keep in mind or think about is this....If you were dissatisfied with a piece of merchandise you purchased at a store...would you go into CS there & cause a scene???? I think a good rule of thumb is to behave here as you would in a public place with hundreds of people around watching/looking. Ever see someone in public having a rant and think OMG!!! what is wrong with that person & happen to see the spouse/kids hiding there faces in embarrassment. There is only 1x I don't leave my house to socialize/shop or drive and that is at PMS time( I know probably TMI for some ;))....I am, lets say, not very nice at this time, so I avoid ALL social contact, including here, because I could very easily rant on ;)

ChaosOutlaw's actions make no sense to me. If you dont like the way a business treats you, don't give them money. Its that simple. You seem to be banging your head against a wall in the hopes that somebody is going to come by and help you. Dont hold your breath. DAZ has lost a lot of quality IMO. Their products have gone from must-haves to half baked. But thats just a question of my personal taste. Im not going to post angry messages in the forum and fight with CS reps demanding "they make cool stuff again". I'll just take my business elsewhere, and better yet, make my own stuff.

Hi I would just like to add that I agree with ernyoka1. Once a discussion degenerates into name calling then the person doing the calling rapidly loses respect. Comments whether true or not like 'ex-army ranger like me' are only there to intimidate people like any other loud mouth or bully. I too query the amount of time you have had to practice with P5, I have had nearly 2 years with p4 and still don't know everything and P5 is a more complex animal. I also have dial up and have had few problems with downloads the only serious one Ihad was with the Mil-dragon and that was when they were changing the web site over a holiday weekend. A phone call (I live in the UK BTW so no free call rates) so again a Phone call was all that was needed to fix the problem! I will say that if you are trying buy $1200 stuff at one time then I'm sorry tough! try one item at a time see if you like what you find if not then no big deal. these are as always my own opinions and I will be expecting a knock in the door from you and your 'ranger' buddies in the next few days! Dave

And threatening to steal from a store doesn't endear him to many either- which is basically what he did on the Daz forum, threatening to download Daz stuff from Usenet groups etc. :)

Stormrage, thanks so much. I've just sent a response. :-) I appreciate your taking notice and contacting me about my complaint. In case I wasn't clear, I really wasn't lumping forum personnel with DAZ staff proper, and acknowledge that Crescent is probably right ... it's possible that nobody at DAZ saw my complaint. If things turn out happily for me I'll be sure to say so publicly. OK, enough about my issue. ---------------------- "Leary of DAZ" wouldn't be that old acidhead guy in Draper with the beads who keeps asking for "Hippie Chick Victoria," would he?

FWIW, my own experiences with DAZ have been mostly positive, with a couple of disappointments (only recently), and also some very good recent correspondence / customer service. DAZ is going through a lot of growing pains and that's no excuse, but wait it out (take a month or two) and then give them another try. I can't speak for CD burns, as I burn my own backup. For that matter, I can also vouch for RuntimeDNA, PoserPros, Sixus1, R'otica, R'osity, PhilC, PoserWorld and BeyondBent. The only store I absolutely refuse to deal with is Bbay, although there are also a few particular vendors who I choose not to give any of my money to. FWIW, Chas

Got a personal email from one of the few friends I still have in this community and had to come back on here to clarify one more thing then I will not bothering with this post as I have already turned off the email me function. I know that the comment I made in DAZ about the illegal warez was wrong. If I could that back, and a few other things then I would. I was drunk on rage and spouting off to get attention because DAZ was ignoring me. I dont know how many times I can apologize but I have done so. I wont apologize anymore. I do use usenet, I am part of a group of "programmers" that seek out and try to destroy child pornography web sites and see that the people out there distributing it go to prison where they belong. Im proud to say that after four years of doing this we have stopped the flow of most of the new hardcore stuff from being posted. Thats why I know whats on there and said that. It was an attempt to get some attention that backfired on me what more can I say that I havent already said about it. As for this post, I will write here what I wrote at the others. It has done exactly what I intended it to do. That is bring my problems to the attention of the whole poser community and allowed me to view their reactions and comments. I have learned more here today about this community than ever before. So I am happy with the results I got and thats why I did it. I also made quite a few enemies today. That doesnt really bother me. I will master poser with or without your help. I never let anything beat me although at times I do lose my mind and act irrationally. Im only human. The mistake I think I made is that focused too much on badmouthing DAZ and not enough on the problems I was having and that soured alot of folks towards me. Im learning I will try not to make so many mistakes in the future. As for what I said to the guy being rude you are right I was wrong and I was acting like a bully. That I will apologize for. But thats who I am, in real life if you run your mouth to me without cause just to be ignorant then expect me to retaliate with violence. Im not trying to intimidate anyone with what I just said I am just trying to let you know how I am. Now I know by saying this Im going to further alienate those that are already not happy with me and probably add to that list but I figure if I get it out in the open it wont happen again. I have not once today badmouthed anyone on any of the forums where I posted this unless they badmouthed me first. My attack was against DAZ the company not any one individual. In a public forum you have the right to disagree with my views and to post your views in kind. You do not have the right to sit here and ridicule me and make snotty comments to me without me retaliating. If you really dont like me then dont help me or listen to me but dont insult me cuz I wont stand for it. If you really feel that you have to say something that negative then at least have the courtesy to send me a private message so we can duke it out there and not disturb the rest of the community. Ive already disturbed them enough dont you think :o) I really am done with this post now. After recieving the email from my friend, thank you darlin :o), I just felt I had to come back and clarify some things. If you post here and are trying to tell me something directly then I suggest you leave me a private message as I wont be back to this paticular post. Its accomplished everything I set out to do and more. Have a nice evening.

oy .. can you guys TELL when I have a mssive toothache and am doped on codiene for two days or what? Well ..Chaos as you noted you were way out of line, in several different ways. Ex Army ranger or not, there is no excuse for certain behaviour. Expect email from site admins shortly. As for everyone else? keep it civil people. I'm in serious pain here and am more than happy to spread it around a bit. Lyrra the Extremely Ouchy

Not in defense or to the detriment of anyone, just some observations from my 44+ years working in manufacturing. If the top brand is so good, hows come everyone uses brand "X"? As in, there can be no question that the lousiest operating system is also the most common, called windoze, other wise famous for the 'blue screen of death". When a company grows, their quality control usually will degenerate to kwalitie kentraul, and nobody inside the company will note the difference. The more products a company offers, the better chance that some of them will be of no worth at all. In ALL industries, the quality control or quality assurance personel are looked at by management as overhead, something to eliminate. I won't make any exceptions here, the inspectors produce only paperwork that is of importance only to other inspectors. The managers don't want to see a breakdown of "These products failed because of this defect", they want to see a chart that shows output increasing and cost decreasing. The only manager that is concerned with what leaves the factory is the manager of quality control, and he's usually only looking at his budget compared to the total facility budget. The peon inspector is probably the only one that is really concerned with the quality, but it's his job if he lets something past or misses something. Add to this that the latest trend at the time I retired, or tossed in the towel, was to make the inspector, assembler, repair man, ONE AND THE SAME, and he's on piecework. Poor quality is always a management decision, and the bigger and more prolific the company, the more likely to happen. 3% is considered an acceptable rejection rate in most industries, which means 97% are satisfied, but doesn't mean the 3% are crackpots. Just generalized remarks, directed at no one.

"in real life if you run your mouth to me without cause just to be ignorant then expect me to retaliate with violence" Violence never solved any problems, and talking about solving your problems in this manner is an issue that many of the people here at Renderosity take offense at. In general we are a peaceful community, albeit, many times we have verbal uprisings that raise the roof, but rarely do people talk about violent retaliation. If you respond to your family in the same manner that has taken place here, then anger management counseling seems to be a good avenue to explore. Too many of the people that frequent this establishment have seen first hand the results of violence, or have friends and family members that have, and it's one of the things that just isn't tolerated no matter how many apologies are provided.

Lyrra, Sorry about your ... errr ... discomfort. Hope you start feeling better soon. Chaos, PLEASE don't use the fact that you're an ex-Army ranger as an attempt to provide clout to yourself. I know several fine Army folk but your conduct discredits these professionals and the Army in general.

uhhhhh oh nevermind just wanted to be #85. I'm going back to watering the fire in my front yard. certainly more productive

Sounds like you're in California MachineClaw. If so, I hople all is well.

That should be "hope" not "hople" :) It's late in Minnesota......

I don't know what all the bother is about. Daz have always been very polite, civil, and helpful with all my questions and when I did have a problem, which was only twice, they responded and had it fixed the same day. Catlin

Ouch Lyrra. I feel your pain! I have been in massive toothache myself for a week now (had the tooth pulled thursday, but see if it cares! Got an abscess now instead of a tooth! I can tell you that hurts even MORE) That also explains any possible grumpyness from my site these last few days, but it doesn't change a bit what I wrote in my previous post.

bleh site = side. I hope my site is as nice as allways LOL

Daz say on their site that they dont support poser 5 and they recommend using poser 4 or propack. By the way, is there anyone who hasnt answered this?

Me! But only 'cos I have nothing to say - apart from the fact that it's been interesting reading!

I haven't answered yet, so I'll add my "helpful" comment. Re Anton's avowed love of anagrams. Yes, we know, Anton. We've all seen your legendary typoes. ;) runs like hell

Yes I'm in San Diego and very close to the fire line. Many things going on and many phone calls. Couple of friends lost homes. weird scary and very busy. My roommates mother lost her home and we're trying to figure out what to do from here. UGH! Not to worried about Daz or Poser right now at all.

Oh man, I had no idea, but you know what there are alot of Renderosity members located in California.....my heart goes out to you all, if there is anything, really anything I can do for you or maybe someone else, please let us know. Sharen

From San Diego here too...I'm in a safe area (so far) but I've had friends and coworkers who have had to evacuate. It's eerie here. The streets are silent. There are no birds in the air. The air is yellow. It's like a scene out of one of those apocalypse movies. So many fires in California...it just is unbelievable how stretched resources are. I'm sure hoping everyone is safe and they get good news about their homes if they've had to evacuate.

Daz say on their site that they dont support poser 5 and they recommend using poser 4 or propack.* That's OK, I don't own any DAZ products except for the D-Spot and Toonfish freebies which work fine in both P5 and PPP. Maybe they don't want you to have the setup room, you might get the idea of making your own figure? j/k :p *By the way, is there anyone who hasnt answered this? Me.

I heard on the news last night that some fires were set deliberately. Some people really need their heads examined, I mean what do they get out of doing things like that. Anyway I hope that folks keep safe. 8) Catlin

'If the top brand is so good, hows come everyone uses brand "X"?' That comment might be valid in another context, but we're not talking toilet cleaners here. In poserland, a product either works or it doesn't. There's no question of 'Mike by DAZ' and 'Mike by Brand X'. Nor is DAZ a factory churning out an endless torrent of the same thing manufactured over and over again, with the inevitable variations in quality the result from mass production. DAZ makes (or accepts for brokering) a figure which is built once, then downloaded 1000s of times. The only one that needs to be 'correct' is the first one. If they f**k that one up, they've got problems. So, in DAZ's case, quality control isn't an issue. Once the original works, they all do. DAZ's business (once the product's out the door) is customer satisfaction. Most customers, if they have a problem, can be made happy by various things - refunds, exchanges, tech support, whatever. The one thing ALL customers have to do in order to solve their problems is contact DAZ in a civil manner and ask for help. I doubt that this includes shouting your mouth off in as many public fora as you can find. mac

I heard the news tonight about the possibility that some of the fires were set on purpose as well as the erieness that dialyn spoke about. It has to be very frightening. Stay safe everyone....homes can be replaced, but people can't. "Get outa town" if it gets too bad.

I Like Daz and, if they want to send me all their products , then it will show just what a good company they really are...

I had a lot to say on this, both from a customer viewpoint and a broker viewpoint... but it ain't worth it. So here's the short of it: DAZ is a small company that, unlike most others in that market, stands by its products and services. Yes they have problems occasionally, but they are conscientious about fixing them. Yes they have slow customer service sometimes, and sometimes drop the ball entirely and need to be reminded -- but there are LESS THAN 30 PEOPLE in the entire company! How many of those do you think can dedicate themselves to customer support? People have a right to be upset. I get angry too, wehen I spend money, have a problem, and it seems like i am being ignored. But I also have some idea of what it is like to run a small business like this. The unfortunate truth is that sometimes people fall through the cracks and don't get the attention they deserve. But in DAZ's defense, when they learn of these things, they try to make it right. In regards to merchant/broker issues at DAZ: I have heard that there has been more than one merchant unhappy with DAZ, but I have never heard why. I would be greatly interested in hearing why, especially from someone like Sixus1, whose work I respect a lot. I have personally had nothing but good experiences brokering with DAZ in my short time there, so I am not aware of the negative issues.